Conservative journalist Aaron Gunn mulling run for BC Liberal leadership
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
188.08931
Summary
Aaron Gunn is a conservative commentator and media personality who has been a long-time supporter of the BC Liberal Party. Now, he s considering a run for the party leadership, and I sat down with him to talk about why he thinks it s time for a change.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
As many of you know, I was in British Columbia last week doing filming and production on
00:00:17.340
And while I was in BC, I had a down afternoon, not sad, but I mean, I didn't have anything
00:00:22.500
So I decided to catch up with an old friend of mine, Aaron Gunn, who has done tremendous
00:00:28.200
work around BC and I would say around the country, advocating first for taxpayer interests.
00:00:33.240
And he's since broadened that to a lot of other solid small C conservative ideas.
00:00:37.980
And he is looking to take the leap from independent media to politics, musing a run for the leadership
00:00:47.040
Now, as far as BC politics goes, the BC Liberals tend to be the more electable conservative-ish
00:00:54.920
But the ish is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, as we'll talk about with Aaron.
00:00:58.920
There's a lot of overlap between the BC Liberals and the federal conservatives, but there's
00:01:03.420
also some overlap between the BC Liberals and the federal liberals.
00:01:07.080
So the question comes down to, can this be a conservative party?
00:01:10.520
And is that enough to get a conservative government in British Columbia?
00:01:15.880
Here's my interview with potential BC Liberal leadership candidate, Aaron Gunn.
00:01:26.460
Are you running for the leadership of the BC Liberals?
00:01:36.320
I've been inundated with messages and both on Facebook and emails and texts from friends
00:01:43.040
and supporters encouraging me to do something with the sad state of affairs of BC politics.
00:01:48.120
And it's something I'm taking really seriously.
00:01:51.960
I mean, this is, I think, a big question that you've yourself been on the forefront of criticizing
00:01:57.540
the state of BC politics, of politics in general, and of the BC Liberal Party.
00:02:02.520
You've got a great thing going for you right now talking about the issues.
00:02:11.060
Already, I've seen in just the last couple of weeks since my name started being rumored,
00:02:15.400
there's the, you know, the attacks over social media, the character assassinations.
00:02:27.300
But on the other hand, in the last provincial election, I was sitting back and watching it.
00:02:37.700
There were two choices, the NDP and the NDP light.
00:02:41.640
And the NDP light, of course, being the BC Liberal Party.
00:02:45.040
There was no vision articulated for the province.
00:02:51.040
And it's something that I think needs to change.
00:02:54.360
I know that for people that aren't in BC, they might be a little bit confused.
00:02:59.180
Why are you talking to a guy who wants to run for the leadership of the BC Liberals?
00:03:04.520
You had posted something on Facebook when there was a movement afoot to try to draft you into
00:03:08.640
politics in which you said that you think the name of the party is actually holding it back
00:03:17.580
But there's basically a two-party system here in British Columbia other than the Green Party.
00:03:23.300
You have the NDP and then you basically have the anti-NDP party.
00:03:28.740
Now, why they called it the BC Liberals is a long story.
00:03:31.820
But what is true is that there's no reason for the BC Liberal name to exist now.
00:03:36.420
For example, if we wanted to enter a doubles tennis tournament and we're like, well, let's
00:03:42.520
We wouldn't say, OK, well, let's call it Team Andrew.
00:03:48.260
So I think that it needs a new name, one that can be inclusive of everybody that's in the
00:03:53.560
The majority of members and voters of the party are federal conservatives.
00:03:58.000
So that's kind of one of the tasks I look forward to potentially taking on.
00:04:03.680
That's actually an important point you raised, though, because I've never been completely
00:04:09.620
But you think that the federal conservative DNA is really the majority of the BC Liberal
00:04:17.460
Well, I would say the majority of voters for the BC of the BC Liberal Party are federal
00:04:28.360
Now, one of the problems is the party apparatus and the insiders behind the party.
00:04:33.240
I don't know if it matters if they're technically federal conservatives or federal liberals.
00:04:37.220
I don't even know if they know any more themselves.
00:04:39.500
But one thing is that they're consumed with power and kind of, you know, having their team
00:04:45.900
win as opposed to actually coming up with and implementing public policy that works for
00:04:54.440
That's, I think, very key here because we saw in Alberta this happen where you had a party
00:04:59.720
in the PC party of Alberta that went unchallenged for years and years.
00:05:03.320
And by the end of its run, there was very little that was recognizably conservative about it
00:05:10.160
And the BC Liberals have had that mantle for quite a while, up until just a couple of years
00:05:15.180
So there is, I think, an opportunity that that presents for a reset.
00:05:19.740
I think, you know, just like you mentioned with Alberta, this seems to happen, you know,
00:05:24.460
every couple of decades where parties get tired.
00:05:27.240
The establishment gets, I don't want to, corrupt might be a little bit too strong of a word,
00:05:33.060
but there's a certain malaise that hangs over it when it comes to public policy and new ideas.
00:05:44.340
So that's something that myself or at the very least an outsider should be coming into
00:05:51.380
When we hear about that term outsider, I think it's become a bit romanticized in a way, this
00:05:57.840
notion of just someone swooping in who doesn't have experience in elected office.
00:06:02.700
And I don't want to downplay what you have done because you've certainly covered politics
00:06:05.840
and you've worked in the political system more broadly, but you're not an MLA.
00:06:12.000
You are coming at this without having that conventional track towards seeking the leadership
00:06:21.180
Why should people overlook what they would view as a lack of experience and say, yeah,
00:06:27.200
Well, I think it's about experience is important, but even more importantly, it's having the
00:06:34.120
So you look at a lot of the people in the BC Liberal Party right now are people that are
00:06:39.840
A lot of these people were involved in bringing in the first carbon tax in North America.
00:06:44.260
I don't think that's the kind of experience that we need.
00:06:46.760
A lot of them were involved with the money laundering and the housing bubble that
00:06:51.060
had affordability go completely out the window for British Columbians.
00:06:54.600
There's the ICBC insurance monopoly that was running to the ground.
00:06:59.520
Obviously, I've been talking about and communicating issues that are important for British Columbians
00:07:04.340
and Canadians since I left university going to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.
00:07:08.740
But I think even more importantly, it's having the right kind of experience and not having
00:07:14.660
that baggage because I guess that's the other side of that coin.
00:07:21.400
And I would also say just for people outside BC, there tends to be this caricature of British
00:07:26.520
Columbia where I think we define it, those of us who aren't from BC, as what downtown
00:07:32.340
And you've heard this all before, the left coast and, you know, the image of the BC hippie.
00:07:36.800
But in BC, there is, first off, a lot more of a diverse province than I think a lot of
00:07:42.800
But a lot of people that are similarly frustrated at all those things you just mentioned, the
00:07:46.880
carbon tax, the housing situations, even if they don't identify as conservative politically,
00:07:52.040
would probably align with someone that's bringing a small C conservative vision to the
00:08:02.940
It's about public policy that works for people.
00:08:05.700
It's about, you know, realism in public policy.
00:08:09.960
So, and you're exactly right about the Vancouver disconnect from downtown Vancouver, either with
00:08:15.480
the suburbs around Vancouver, whether that's Surrey, whether that's Langley, the interior,
00:08:19.580
Kelowna, Kamloops, the north and Prince George, where most of the mineral and oil and natural
00:08:24.440
gas wealth comes from, or on Vancouver Island, where people feel completely ignored.
00:08:29.440
So I do think that what you say is exactly correct.
00:08:33.420
And there's that disconnect in downtown Vancouver with the rest of the province, which I'm sure
00:08:38.460
is similar to Toronto and much of that province and Montreal and much of Quebec, etc.
00:08:44.140
Yes, and I don't know if every province has that.
00:08:47.240
Certainly in Ontario, you see that dynamic where people feel that the decisions are made by a few
00:08:53.440
square kilometers in the Toronto area, and that's where the population is.
00:08:57.140
And I'm assuming BC is very much like that as well.
00:08:59.860
So how do you break through that with a vision that, and I'm looking beyond the leadership right
00:09:08.140
How do you break beyond that regional imbalance and put a vision forward that is not going
00:09:13.140
to scare people away, but at the same time is going to be solid to these principles that
00:09:21.740
I think one thing is in the cities, and we talk about Vancouver, people that are living
00:09:25.900
outside the downtown core are equally frustrated with the decisions coming from those downtown
00:09:33.620
So in Vancouver, for example, you have these tent cities that have been completely out of
00:09:38.360
You have city councils in Victoria that have tore down statues of Sir John A. MacDonald,
00:09:42.760
for example, that have instituted insane policies towards harm reduction, quote-unquote harm reduction
00:09:53.500
They pretty much have taxpayer-funded heroin injection sites.
00:09:57.640
So these kind of policies, I think, have failed, and people inside the cities and outside
00:10:04.140
So that's, I think, how you connect with them, and you try to provide a pan-British-Columbian
00:10:18.540
I think that has to happen, because you need a new name, you need a new leader, but you need
00:10:23.500
a new name to really turn the page on this, you know, the history of the party.
00:10:28.420
And to tell Conservatives, some of whom stayed home last election and broke off and voted
00:10:33.960
for the B.C. Conservative Party, that they are welcome back into the tent.
00:10:38.820
Number two, you have to get cost of living under control.
00:10:41.440
You have to realize that's, you know, a number one priority for many British Columbians and
00:10:45.040
their families that don't necessarily have all the time to chat about all the nuances
00:10:50.080
But, you know, they're trying to feed their families and afford their mortgage payments.
00:10:53.440
And that means the housing bubble and the housing crisis, that means repealing the carbon tax,
00:10:59.580
that means reining in the ICBC auto insurance monopoly, et cetera, et cetera.
00:11:04.640
I think you've got to stand up to city councils that have gone completely out of control.
00:11:09.100
I think you need to get the pipelines built to power this economy, whether it's TMX or Coastal
00:11:13.400
Gas Link or putting Northern Gateway back on the table.
00:11:16.920
I think you need to support forestry, resources.
00:11:19.640
You have to protect our constitutional rights and you have to rein in as well some of these
00:11:25.760
universities like the University of British Columbia that does not respect free speech
00:11:31.980
I think as a taxpayer funded institution, that's completely unacceptable.
00:11:35.900
The resource issue is huge because whenever we have these discussions in Canada, even when
00:11:42.820
the liberals are on board, the federal liberals in Canada are on board, B.C. is the sticking
00:11:48.300
And I refuse to believe that the average British Columbian is against the jobs, the reduction
00:11:55.300
in dependence on foreign oil that are all inherently byproducts of the attacks on Canada's
00:12:05.020
politics that has been able to be pro-energy really in a bold way?
00:12:11.460
Well, you're 100 percent right in that if you look at every poll, the majority of British
00:12:15.620
Columbians support the Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion.
00:12:19.400
A huge majority of British Columbians support the Coastal Gas Link Natural Gas Pipeline.
00:12:24.360
By the way, all 20 elected First Nation bands along the pipeline route also support that
00:12:30.100
I think what you're missing is you're missing a politician with backbone who isn't afraid
00:12:35.740
to champion Canadian oil and natural gas and say, you know what?
00:12:39.040
This actually makes the world a better place as long as we need oil in the world.
00:12:43.500
As much of that oil as possible should be coming from Canada.
00:12:45.980
When it comes to natural gas, that's good for the environment in every way imaginable because
00:12:51.080
you're sending it off to China to help displace coal.
00:12:54.480
So I think you need a champion who isn't afraid to stand up for his principles, isn't going to
00:13:00.320
back down because they're scared of a bad headline with the CBC and really sticks to his guns.
00:13:06.200
So that's what I think has been missing is a champion for those issues.
00:13:12.960
What are the factors weighing on your mind as you decide whether to go through with this?
00:13:18.800
Well, right now, as I mentioned, we're doing our due diligence, looking at the rules, looking
00:13:29.040
As you mentioned, I've got just started a new show, Politics Explained.
00:13:33.340
I have my online branding and I've been expanding really rapidly.
00:13:38.400
And this isn't my first choice of time to get involved into politics.
00:13:43.660
I've chatted openly with individuals like yourself, other people in the movement.
00:13:48.500
As you know, I'm a movement guy about how one day, you know, down the road, I might get
00:13:55.240
But why I might be getting involved now is just the genuine frustration with lack of choices.
00:13:59.600
There's just, there's no choices articulating these values, articulating an actual vision
00:14:06.340
And if somebody stepped up to the plate that I thought, you know, checked all those boxes,
00:14:09.800
I'd be more than happy to support them from the sidelines and continue doing my thing.
00:14:18.360
And so one of the reasons why is I'm waiting to see if somebody actually gets in and starts
00:14:23.320
articulating, you know, those things in which I believe and which I think, you know, a large
00:14:30.440
When you look at the landscape of BC politics, is the issue that the people that you've just
00:14:35.600
Or is it that they exist but are just not wanting to seek a leadership role at this point?
00:14:42.400
Well, I think there's a lot of apathy in British Columbia.
00:14:46.340
I think the British Columbia Liberal Party has just, as I mentioned earlier, there's kind
00:14:57.780
And then I think also, you know, who would want to get involved in politics?
00:15:02.680
Yeah, it goes back to the first question of why on earth do you want this?
00:15:05.520
If you had a successful career in the private sector, why would you possibly want to get
00:15:09.960
involved in politics and take the torrent of abuse that you're inevitably going to receive?
00:15:16.760
So I think that's, you know, I think that deters a lot of people.
00:15:21.060
For whatever reason, my brain has been wired in such a way where, you know, that's something
00:15:27.320
that I can deal with or my skin is thick enough.
00:15:31.540
But for me, honestly, it's not really that I want to do it or it seems like a great opportunity.
00:15:37.160
It's that I'm tired of sitting on the sidelines.
00:15:40.160
I remember sitting there during the last provincial election watching the debate and just being
00:15:46.440
I really think, you know, British Columbia, third biggest province in confederation, plays
00:15:51.720
a very important role in these, you know, constitutional debates regarding infrastructure
00:16:04.520
I'm only going into this to win if I go into it and make the final call.
00:16:09.400
We've already got, you know, a team together that's discussing the possibilities.
00:16:14.580
And, you know, like I said, we have to do our due diligence.
00:16:23.420
And this would be much too of a—there's much too much incoming that I would receive
00:16:28.820
specifically, as you've seen with the Press Progress report, where I would be doing this
00:16:34.480
I try not to put too much faith in anything Press Progress writes.
00:16:38.580
But in that story, they talk about a few of the so-called expert brigade that, you know,
00:16:43.860
tends to think that the rules might be stacked against you and you might not even be allowed
00:16:48.460
Is that a serious risk or is that just Press Progress being Press Progress?
00:16:52.980
Well, look, there's lots of rumors flying around.
00:16:56.180
There are people within the party that don't want me to run because, you know, they found
00:17:00.620
their candidate they want and they don't want to have an actual exchange of ideas.
00:17:04.400
They don't want to have an actual debate about policy.
00:17:07.240
They don't want the carbon tax to come up again.
00:17:09.340
They think that's, you know, you know, a settled issue.
00:17:12.120
To have someone like you on a debate stage in a party leadership forcing candidates to defend
00:17:17.920
the indefensible if they are pro-carbon tax or don't want to have the discussion is dangerous
00:17:23.360
And I really, not only do I think that that's not true, I actually think that's harmful
00:17:29.920
I think the party needs to have a robust discussion.
00:17:34.980
And look, I'm not looking to go personal after everybody.
00:17:37.820
But when it comes to policy, we should be able to have frank conversations.
00:17:40.580
And I was just meeting with someone the other day who said, no, we need this to be like they
00:17:45.980
referenced an old NDP leadership race where it's like a family affair and everyone's just
00:17:50.900
And that's not what I think you need to do after you suffer a humiliating election defeat.
00:17:56.100
I think you really need to take a look in the mirror and hash it out about a path forward
00:18:03.500
And some people don't like that fact because they're probably cozy with their little enclaves
00:18:07.580
on enclaves of power that they've carved out for themselves in the existing party.
00:18:13.240
I represent change and change is a threat to some people.
00:18:16.500
And the problem, if you are approaching this from a grassroots perspective, which you are,
00:18:20.780
is that the people that set out the rules for these things are not representative always
00:18:27.240
And this is not a swipe at this particular committee.
00:18:30.620
It's just in general, this is how these things work.
00:18:32.860
So I would be very leery of anyone who ever said that it's not the party members who get
00:18:37.940
to decide whether you deserve to be standing in this race.
00:18:42.840
And look, I don't know the members on that committee.
00:18:46.760
I try to follow practice in life where I assume the best until, you know, provided with evidence
00:18:53.400
Well, you're not going to fly in politics if that's your attitude, but carry on.
00:19:00.120
And right now, it's just rumors and speculation.
00:19:04.040
I think the other campaigns are trying to push that narrative forward because it makes
00:19:09.080
me seem like some kind of extreme candidate or something like that, which I don't think
00:19:15.620
So yeah, I mean, and look, here's the other thing.
00:19:18.060
This is why I really don't think it's going to happen.
00:19:20.500
If you say that I can't be part of this party, if you say someone like me cannot be part of
00:19:26.560
this leadership race, you're saying hundreds of thousands of British Columbians who support
00:19:30.900
me or support the policies that I espouse have no place in this party.
00:19:34.740
And if you're doing that, you're signing your own death warrant as far as I'm concerned.
00:19:39.220
So I don't think that they would be that dumb to do that.
00:19:46.600
But as far as I'm concerned, I haven't heard anything, you know, directly from them or anything
00:19:56.120
But again, there's this party, they say it's a coalition party and they want to have rejuvenation.
00:20:03.340
Well, let's, you know, put your money where their mouth is, hopefully.
00:20:06.840
I guess that would be the last thing I'd want to ask you about then, Aaron, because it is
00:20:11.300
And in these sorts of arrangements, there's a risk that one just consumes the other rather
00:20:19.220
In your view, is the BC Liberals' future going to be about the battle between the right
00:20:25.120
Or do you think there is a unified vision that you or in general someone could put forward
00:20:32.340
So right now, that unified vision doesn't exist.
00:20:35.140
So right now, the party's foundation is built on a concept of just a coalition between federal
00:20:41.640
liberals and federal conservatives to keep out the NDP.
00:20:48.140
And there's not a philosophical basis for that.
00:20:52.260
And I think that's, you know, that's an alliance that was made in the late, or in the 1990s that
00:20:59.320
Justin Trudeau's federal liberal government is to the left of the provincial NDP on a number
00:21:05.460
So that makes, like deficit financing, for example.
00:21:08.620
So that makes this alliance really quite awkward.
00:21:11.500
What I think you need to do is, on the center right of the political spectrum, create a
00:21:17.420
new party or reform this existing party with its own independent vision that, yes, is a
00:21:22.980
home for federal conservatives, that, yes, is a home for many federal liberals, but it
00:21:26.960
can also get, you know, people that might have not traditionally voted before.
00:21:29.880
Maybe people that had voted NDP before or voted Green before, similar to the old Social
00:21:34.740
Credit Party, which dominated B.C. politics for decades.
00:21:38.020
Aaron Gunn, independent journalist, potential contender for the B.C.
00:21:46.000
Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:21:48.240
Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.
00:21:53.360
Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:22:00.700
Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:22:01.840
Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.