Juno News - Conservative leadership race becomes referendum on Freedom Convoy

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:05.100 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:10.400 Coming up is the Conservative Leadership Brace, a referendum on the convoy.

00:00:15.000 Also, conversations after the debate with a couple of the leadership candidates.

00:00:18.840 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:22.600 Hello everyone and welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show here on True North.

00:00:26.980 It is Tuesday, May 10th, 2022.

00:00:28.980 It is my great pleasure to have you tuning in to the program today.

00:00:34.180 I am back from Ottawa, where I was on the ground covering and also speaking at the Canada Strong and Free Networking Conference.

00:00:42.120 And you may recall I did a bit of a show on that, I think it was on Friday,

00:00:45.580 talking to Troy Lanigan and Jamil Javani and Premier Jason Kenney, who I wasn't even planning to interview.

00:00:52.040 He was just wandering the halls and I sent a message to his Director of Communications,

00:00:56.800 because you never want to be the one that just like runs up and shoves a microphone in someone's face.

00:01:00.580 Well, sometimes you do, but I try not to do that to people that have made the time to come on this show.

00:01:05.960 And his communications director said, yeah, yeah, he has some time.

00:01:08.680 So it was great seeing Premier Kenney and everyone at the Canada Strong and Free Networking Conference.

00:01:13.800 I met so many people there who are viewers of this show or listeners to this show or readers of my column or my newsletter,

00:01:20.080 who came up to introduce themselves, as I asked you to do.

00:01:23.500 So thank you very much.

00:01:24.960 And also thank you for not being crazy.

00:01:27.520 You may be wondering why I am markedly more casual today than I usually am in the short sleeves.

00:01:33.980 I'd love to make some, you know, claim about it being a show of the people and, you know, time to dress down and the warm weather.

00:01:40.180 The reality is I've had three conferences that I've been to in the last three weekends,

00:01:44.600 and I need to desperately do laundry, which is in the machine right now.

00:01:47.940 So today you get a dress down, more casual, Andrew Lawton,

00:01:51.240 which I can do because I'm throwing the interviews I recorded when I was more dressed up.

00:01:55.720 So that's the trade-off.

00:01:57.080 If I'm wearing a jacket in the pre-taped interview, I can go short-sleeved otherwise.

00:02:01.900 But in all honesty, it was great to being at the Canada Strong and Free Networking Conference,

00:02:06.100 formerly the Manning Networking Conference,

00:02:08.740 especially after the last two years where basically in-person events have been illegal.

00:02:13.760 So seeing everyone in person, a lot of people I knew or have only corresponded with online,

00:02:18.820 instead of including, by the way, some people I work with who I've never actually met in person.

00:02:23.740 But also it was my first time back in Ottawa since the time which you can see the evidence of here

00:02:30.340 at which I was pepper sprayed covering the Freedom Con.

00:02:33.440 But yeah, that was my, I mean, my face is already unpleasant to look at,

00:02:36.820 but even more so that day, as you can see, when like the left side of it was all swollen and puffy and burned.

00:02:42.980 So I had a nice nostalgia moment as my hotel room overlooked the Chateau Laurier where,

00:02:48.320 I wasn't staying at the Chateau Laurier, but where I overlooked where this all went down in front of the Chateau Laurier.

00:02:53.880 So, ah yes, brought back the painful, burning, singeing memories.

00:02:58.440 I want to talk about the leadership debate that took place at the conference.

00:03:02.160 And one of the big themes that's emerged from the Conservative Party of Canada leadership race,

00:03:08.460 there are six candidates now.

00:03:10.000 We've talked to five of those six on this show.

00:03:12.780 Leslyn Lewis, Roman Babber, Scott Aitchison, Pierre Paulyevre, Jean Charest.

00:03:17.840 The sixth candidate has not agreed to be interviewed yet.

00:03:20.680 He's also not been participating in the debate that happened so far.

00:03:25.200 That was Patrick Brown.

00:03:26.820 Now, I may have mentioned it on a previous show, I can't remember,

00:03:29.960 but I'm hosting and moderating a debate on May 30th that's being put on by the Independent Press Gallery.

00:03:36.400 And of that, Patrick Brown still has not RSVP'd.

00:03:39.780 He's not acknowledged whether or not he'll be there at all.

00:03:43.480 And I should say you can learn about that by going to independentpressgallery.ca.

00:03:47.320 We have tickets available if you're in the greater Toronto area and want to come by.

00:03:52.160 And we have, it's going to be a great time,

00:03:53.780 we have a journalist panel that's going to be asking questions,

00:03:56.100 including Sheila Gunn-Reed and Derek Fildebrandt and Rupa Subramanya.

00:04:00.920 And as mentioned, yours truly will be there.

00:04:02.880 So it says a lot about candidates who have complained about mainstream media coverage

00:04:07.140 and cancelled culture that haven't yet agreed to go to a debate being hosted exclusively

00:04:12.360 by independent media.

00:04:14.220 So my hope is that by May 30th, all the candidates will be there.

00:04:17.580 That's certainly what I'm going for.

00:04:19.740 But again, if not, we'll have great discussions with the ones who are there.

00:04:23.120 The debate that took place that my colleague Candace Malcolm and Jamil Javani hosted

00:04:28.540 was one that was entertaining to watch because there was a lot of tension,

00:04:33.220 which if you're hosting a debate, you don't want it to be boring.

00:04:35.300 You want there to be contrast.

00:04:37.160 But the feistiest moments, the feistiest moments came when you were asking one question,

00:04:43.380 basically, not the one that the moderators asked,

00:04:45.620 but as a viewer, the question you're asking is which of you supports the convoy?

00:04:49.960 And it was interesting how the convoy became the litmus test for a candidate.

00:04:55.580 You had Pierre Pollyevre saying that Jean Charest didn't support the convoy,

00:05:00.300 which Charest, by the way, agreed.

00:05:01.840 He said it was an illegal blockade and got booed.

00:05:05.800 And then you had Leslyn Lewis, who was then accusing Pierre Pollyevre of not being a real

00:05:11.460 supporter of the convoy.

00:05:13.200 Just take a look at a montage of this.

00:05:15.220 What did you take from that accusation that the Conservative Party didn't stand up

00:05:18.720 for freedom during the pandemic?

00:05:21.100 Pierre?

00:05:21.740 Well, I did stand up for freedom during the pandemic.

00:05:24.480 From the very beginning, I was among the loudest voices in Parliament.

00:05:28.140 That you were not one of the loudest voices, Mr. Pollyevre.

00:05:30.720 You were not one of the loudest voices.

00:05:32.540 In fact, you did not speak up until it was convenient for you to speak up.

00:05:35.540 Actually, that is not true, Madam Lewis.

00:05:36.780 You did not even go to the trucker protest.

00:05:40.320 You actually went and you took a picture in your neighborhood at a local stop.

00:05:45.380 Let's hear from Mr. Pollyevre, please.

00:05:45.740 You did not speak up for the truckers and you did not speak up the loudest, Mr. Pollyevre.

00:05:50.940 First of all, I did go to the trucker protest, both on Parliament Hill and in my community.

00:05:55.840 You took a picture up front, Mr. Pollyevre.

00:05:56.540 I was there at the trucker protest.

00:05:59.700 I was on the street.

00:06:00.780 I was supporting those who were fighting for their freedoms.

00:06:04.740 And I did, in fact, I did it if I could.

00:06:08.380 If I could, if I could.

00:06:10.020 In fact, I opposed the vaccine mandates as soon as they were announced.

00:06:14.340 This whole situation with the vaccine mandates, the truckers' convoy,

00:06:17.540 never should have happened in the first place.

00:06:18.960 Leadership would have engaged people.

00:06:20.980 It should never have happened in the first place.

00:06:22.440 I agree with Scott.

00:06:23.800 This mess that we witnessed is the fault of Mr. Trudeau.

00:06:26.800 But Mr. Pollyevre, during that period, supported an illegal blockade.

00:06:32.100 You cannot make laws and break laws and then say I will make laws for other people.

00:06:38.040 I'm sorry, but that is a question of basic foundation and principle strain in my life.

00:06:44.640 I said at the very outset, before they even arrived,

00:06:47.580 that I simultaneously stood with the law-abiding and peaceful truckers

00:06:50.740 who were fighting for their livelihoods and liberties

00:06:53.600 while condemning any individual who breaks the law,

00:06:58.280 blocks critical infrastructure, or behaves badly.

00:07:01.100 That is the position I took then.

00:07:02.400 It's the position I take now.

00:07:04.460 Now, Mr. Charest learned about the trucker convoy on CBC, like other liberals,

00:07:08.640 and he misrepresented them.

00:07:11.040 Frankly, Mr. Charest, for you to talk about law and order

00:07:14.160 is a little bit rich, given that your party, your liberal party,

00:07:17.760 took a half million dollars of illegal donations

00:07:20.240 when you were the head of that party.

00:07:22.380 The average trucker has more integrity in his pinky finger

00:07:26.460 than you had in your entire scandal-plagued liberal cabinet.

00:07:33.160 I want to come back to something I've heard here

00:07:35.200 because I can just imagine myself right now in the audience,

00:07:37.520 and I'm listening to this,

00:07:39.000 and we have one candidate accusing another of not being with a convoy

00:07:42.180 and the other one with being with a convoy.

00:07:43.940 Here again, we politicize the issue.

00:07:45.900 Instead of talking about the underlying issue,

00:07:48.180 which is making people do something against their will,

00:07:51.220 which is forcing someone to make a decision

00:07:53.320 between their ability to put food on the table

00:07:55.700 and their personal health care choice,

00:07:57.980 can we not speak about the underlying issue?

00:08:00.300 So all the candidates are trying to stake out their positions here.

00:08:03.100 Jean Charest calls it an illegal blockade and gets booed.

00:08:06.120 Pierre Paulyev calls Jean Charest a liberal

00:08:08.180 and says he supports the truckers.

00:08:10.120 Leslyn Lewis says,

00:08:10.920 yeah, but you didn't actually go to the convoy.

00:08:13.000 I was there.

00:08:14.040 And basically, I mean, as someone who finds the convoy

00:08:16.600 this fascinating chapter in Canadian politics,

00:08:19.620 in Canadian history even,

00:08:21.080 it's interesting to see, quite frankly,

00:08:23.360 that the Conservative Party of Canada,

00:08:25.080 whose former leader wouldn't say whether or not he supported it,

00:08:28.900 is now a battle of who supported it more

00:08:31.640 and who supported it first and who supported it better.

00:08:35.140 And that was one of the things I raised with Leslyn Lewis,

00:08:38.600 the Conservative Party of Canada leadership candidate,

00:08:40.640 with whom I caught up after the debate.

00:08:43.260 So what was your feeling about the debate,

00:08:44.780 the first debate of the leadership race?

00:08:46.880 I thought it went very well,

00:08:48.520 and I thought I executed and answered the questions with great proficiency.

00:08:53.580 We've seen in the last week the importation of an American debate

00:08:57.280 in the overturning or potential overturning of Roe v. Wade,

00:09:00.380 and the federal government of Canada responding by doubling down

00:09:03.820 on protecting abortion rights in this country.

00:09:06.060 If you're the Conservative leader,

00:09:07.860 how do you lead the party and the country through that debate?

00:09:11.060 Well, I will definitely have free votes because it's an issue of conscience.

00:09:14.780 And I have really laid out what my policies are on abortion.

00:09:20.780 It is such a polarizing issue, and we need to build bridges.

00:09:25.320 There are so many people that are pro-choice,

00:09:29.240 that have very similar views with some people who are pro-life.

00:09:33.160 And there's meetings in the middle.

00:09:35.700 And my policies of helping pregnancy care centres

00:09:38.900 and preventing coerced abortion

00:09:41.640 and fighting misogyny within the womb,

00:09:45.360 preferring a boy over a girl,

00:09:47.240 fighting against that stereotype,

00:09:49.720 these types of policies are unifying,

00:09:52.560 and the majority of Canadians believe in them.

00:09:54.780 So I don't think that it is something that needs to divide Canadians.

00:09:59.040 I see that there's commonality, and we can build bridges.

00:10:01.940 One of the sources of contrast in the debate

00:10:04.680 was an exchange between you and Pierre Polyave about the trucker convoy.

00:10:09.020 And you, as I took it anyway,

00:10:10.340 were accusing him of not really being a genuine supporter of the movement.

00:10:14.480 What is your belief on that?

00:10:16.140 Well, my problem is that as Conservatives,

00:10:18.620 when we are afraid of labels,

00:10:20.360 like you heard somebody else talk about conspiracy theories,

00:10:23.280 then we start to do things.

00:10:24.740 Like if we're quoting, saying something about the trucker convoy,

00:10:28.240 you use quotations,

00:10:29.160 which Mr. Polyave did do at the beginning.

00:10:31.940 And that gives you an opportunity to backtrack.

00:10:34.520 I see that as disingenuous.

00:10:36.980 If you can't jump onto something,

00:10:39.560 if you truly believe in freedom,

00:10:41.600 jump onto it when it's politically expedient to do so.

00:10:45.460 And that's my concern.

00:10:46.720 If you are the leader,

00:10:48.140 you're going to go up against a media

00:10:49.680 that, as we've seen in the last three elections,

00:10:51.420 is tremendously hostile to Conservatives,

00:10:53.340 was hostile to the convoy,

00:10:54.880 is hostile to social Conservatives.

00:10:56.640 How do you prevent the Conservatives

00:10:58.940 from going through another electoral loss

00:11:01.160 when you are in this climate

00:11:02.700 that's just not receptive to Conservatism, it seems?

00:11:05.640 Well, part of it is our problem,

00:11:07.680 because we don't push back.

00:11:09.940 We run from the media.

00:11:11.400 We don't have conversations.

00:11:13.260 We allow debates to be closed

00:11:15.160 in a free and democratic society.

00:11:17.520 And I just put what's out there.

00:11:19.620 I'm honest about where I stand.

00:11:21.420 I try to form policies

00:11:23.320 that will benefit all Canadians.

00:11:26.220 And so I'm not embarrassed

00:11:27.400 about what my Conservative policies are.

00:11:29.460 So there's nothing that the media

00:11:30.860 could attack me on,

00:11:32.700 because my policies are going to be out there for them.

00:11:35.700 If you're going through the race,

00:11:37.020 I know it came up tonight,

00:11:37.960 you're an Ontario Member of Parliament.

00:11:40.200 It's a field of Ontario

00:11:41.480 and one Quebec Member of Parliament.

00:11:43.360 How do you unite the country

00:11:44.980 with winning support in Quebec,

00:11:46.420 winning support in Western Canada,

00:11:48.080 when this seems to have been a sticking point

00:11:49.920 for governments and parties in the past?

00:11:52.040 Well, I did very well in the West

00:11:53.760 because I have deep Conservative values.

00:11:57.600 And I think it's very important

00:11:58.980 to make sure that we don't have

00:12:01.340 this Ottawa bubble mentality.

00:12:03.320 We can't be disrespectful to various regions.

00:12:06.620 We have to look at what their strengths are.

00:12:08.540 We have to formulate policies

00:12:09.800 that will really highlight

00:12:11.920 the strengths of various regions

00:12:13.560 and come together as a team.

00:12:15.800 If you are successful

00:12:17.240 and you become the Prime Minister,

00:12:18.300 any of the people up on the stage

00:12:19.480 with you tonight,

00:12:19.980 would they be in your cabinet?

00:12:21.600 I respect all of them

00:12:23.180 that have put their name forwards.

00:12:25.060 I think that they're all formidable opponents

00:12:27.040 and I think that they're all competent

00:12:29.240 in what they do and absolutely.

00:12:31.700 Thank you.

00:12:32.180 Thank you.

00:12:32.820 That was Leslie Lewis,

00:12:34.360 who interestingly enough,

00:12:35.640 didn't attend the media scrums

00:12:38.180 where you answer questions

00:12:39.140 from mainstream media reporters.

00:12:40.640 They were all upstairs

00:12:41.560 waiting for other candidates

00:12:43.040 and then she came down

00:12:44.040 and spoke to me instead.

00:12:45.760 So I was quite grateful

00:12:47.120 for her taking the time.

00:12:49.000 The interesting thing is

00:12:50.080 the race is one very much of contrast.

00:12:53.360 You had Scott Aitchison going to do the

00:12:55.380 can't we all get along routine

00:12:57.180 and we'll have an interview with him

00:12:58.400 later this week.

00:12:59.800 You had Roman Babber 0.94

00:13:00.940 who was really making a calm appeal

00:13:03.980 to democracy

00:13:05.600 and to democratic conservatism.

00:13:07.760 Now, interestingly enough,

00:13:09.240 with Roman Babber,

00:13:10.240 I've interviewed him before.

00:13:11.660 I didn't know how well he'd do in the debate.

00:13:15.340 The guy is a one-term Ontario MPP.

00:13:18.180 He's done interviews before

00:13:19.540 but he's never been really

00:13:20.960 that I've seen anyway

00:13:21.880 that I've known about

00:13:22.740 on that national stage

00:13:24.640 up against, again,

00:13:25.500 a former Quebec premier,

00:13:27.100 Pitbull and Pierre Polyev,

00:13:28.760 someone who's got a lot of class

00:13:30.440 and grace when she speaks,

00:13:31.840 Leslyn Lewis

00:13:32.420 and all of these other people.

00:13:34.000 I didn't know how he'd fare.

00:13:35.400 He did very well.

00:13:37.560 Roman Babber did remarkably well

00:13:39.180 and I'm not just basing this

00:13:40.640 off of my own arbitrary assessment.

00:13:42.540 A lot of people came up to me

00:13:43.740 and said that, yeah,

00:13:44.620 they thought he did well

00:13:45.480 and were surprised

00:13:46.420 because like me,

00:13:47.240 I wouldn't even say

00:13:48.160 had low expectations

00:13:49.200 but they just didn't know

00:13:50.440 what to expect.

00:13:51.800 So I sat down afterwards

00:13:53.420 with Roman Babber

00:13:55.080 to break down the debate

00:13:56.200 and also some of the other themes

00:13:58.240 of the leadership race.

00:13:59.620 Take a look.

00:14:00.380 Roman, how did you feel

00:14:01.460 about the debate last night?

00:14:02.720 I felt pretty good.

00:14:03.540 I felt that our message resonated.

00:14:05.840 I thought it was very, very lively

00:14:07.220 and I'm glad that consensus

00:14:10.880 says that we've exceeded expectations.

00:14:13.260 Obviously, the nature of leadership race

00:14:15.100 is that you're appealing

00:14:16.200 to a relatively small segment

00:14:18.480 of the population,

00:14:19.420 Conservative members

00:14:20.200 or prospective Conservative members

00:14:21.920 and there's always that pivot

00:14:23.480 that comes after

00:14:24.340 when you have to start sharing

00:14:25.600 your message

00:14:26.040 with a broader audience

00:14:26.980 and I know in the past

00:14:28.480 this has been a big frustration

00:14:29.840 with people

00:14:30.300 where you get a leadership candidate

00:14:31.380 who says one thing

00:14:32.780 to win over Conservative members

00:14:34.180 and then something else

00:14:35.000 to win over Canadians,

00:14:36.540 often doing the latter

00:14:37.700 unsuccessfully.

00:14:39.500 What is it about your message

00:14:40.820 that you feel

00:14:41.760 could make that transition

00:14:43.160 without becoming diluted?

00:14:45.700 This is a point

00:14:46.640 that I specifically addressed

00:14:47.780 last night

00:14:48.360 that I said that

00:14:49.260 you can't have a leader

00:14:50.060 that runs to the right

00:14:50.940 during the leadership

00:14:51.560 and then pivots left

00:14:52.900 during the general election.

00:14:54.060 It creates distrust

00:14:55.360 among the Conservative movement

00:14:56.980 and it gives rise

00:14:59.320 to accusations

00:15:00.300 of flip-flopping

00:15:01.560 by our political opponents

00:15:02.980 on the left.

00:15:03.440 So I think

00:15:04.880 you have to remain

00:15:05.440 very, very consistent

00:15:06.180 from the start

00:15:06.880 and that means

00:15:08.460 saying what you truly believe

00:15:10.680 and I believe

00:15:12.100 that a lot of Canadians

00:15:13.020 are worried about

00:15:14.160 the erosion

00:15:14.680 of Canada's democracy.

00:15:16.660 I think

00:15:17.300 many Canadians

00:15:19.420 can agree objectively

00:15:21.040 that our freedom

00:15:22.040 of speech

00:15:22.520 is being eroded,

00:15:23.640 that our fundamental rights

00:15:24.800 are being eroded

00:15:25.480 and that Canadian opportunity

00:15:26.820 is being eroded

00:15:27.680 and that message resonates

00:15:28.860 both with Conservatives

00:15:30.220 and with Canadians generally.

00:15:31.540 When we last spoke

00:15:33.140 you talked about

00:15:34.020 how it's really

00:15:34.940 a democratic conservacism

00:15:36.600 that you said

00:15:37.300 defines your approach

00:15:38.860 to these issues.

00:15:40.140 Do you feel that

00:15:40.920 in politics right now,

00:15:42.500 not just in the Conservative Party

00:15:43.620 but in general,

00:15:44.860 there is enough independence

00:15:46.260 for members of Parliament?

00:15:47.540 I think that

00:15:51.440 in the last couple of years

00:15:52.600 we've seen

00:15:53.260 parliaments

00:15:53.900 that suffered

00:15:54.680 from a deficit

00:15:55.800 of democracy

00:15:56.440 and I think

00:15:58.760 I'm a good example

00:15:59.780 where

00:16:00.120 and the Doug Ford caucus

00:16:02.500 is certainly an example

00:16:03.420 where I think

00:16:05.000 you have three

00:16:05.780 or four members

00:16:06.540 that left over

00:16:08.340 COVID-related issues.

00:16:09.660 I think that

00:16:11.260 it's essential

00:16:12.420 that we have

00:16:13.140 democratic conservatism

00:16:14.780 also within our

00:16:15.560 parliamentary caucus

00:16:16.420 to preserve Canada's democracy

00:16:18.500 and to unite our party.

00:16:20.920 Members work

00:16:21.840 for their constituents.

00:16:23.240 They don't work

00:16:23.660 for the party boss

00:16:24.440 and it's good

00:16:25.420 to have perspective.

00:16:26.400 It's not just good

00:16:26.880 for democracy.

00:16:27.860 It's also good

00:16:28.360 for public policy

00:16:29.200 and I'll also

00:16:30.520 end by saying

00:16:31.740 I think that

00:16:34.500 as you know

00:16:36.860 yesterday

00:16:37.160 I've introduced

00:16:37.980 my democratic

00:16:38.660 conservatism policy.

00:16:40.820 I don't think

00:16:41.500 that the party boss

00:16:42.620 can fundamentally

00:16:44.460 usurp

00:16:45.140 democratic rights

00:16:47.460 such as

00:16:47.780 introducing legislation

00:16:48.760 or voting

00:16:49.920 their conscience.

00:16:50.900 I've been made

00:16:51.740 to vote against

00:16:52.660 my conscience

00:16:53.100 and it's something

00:16:53.800 that I would never

00:16:54.840 impose on anyone

00:16:55.980 but it's important

00:16:57.920 to remember

00:16:58.400 that members

00:16:59.320 come with

00:16:59.940 their own

00:17:00.520 constituencies

00:17:01.300 their own

00:17:02.580 movements

00:17:04.020 within the party

00:17:04.660 and we have to

00:17:05.720 welcome them

00:17:06.300 in order to unite

00:17:07.080 the party.

00:17:07.920 When you look

00:17:08.740 at the landscape

00:17:10.120 in Canadian politics

00:17:11.860 right now

00:17:12.560 conservative

00:17:13.180 to a lot of people

00:17:14.600 is a bad word.

00:17:15.600 It comes with the baggage

00:17:16.540 that you know

00:17:17.400 whether it's the

00:17:17.920 unacceptable fringe

00:17:18.780 minority to Justin Trudeau

00:17:20.200 or people that

00:17:21.100 you know

00:17:21.640 have never really engaged

00:17:22.740 with a conservative

00:17:23.840 or knowingly a conservative.

00:17:25.920 What is in your view

00:17:27.280 the branding issue

00:17:28.660 that conservatives

00:17:29.320 have right now

00:17:30.200 and what's your solution

00:17:31.140 to that?

00:17:32.800 I think that

00:17:33.720 first of all

00:17:34.560 very rarely

00:17:35.220 we're able to

00:17:36.000 take our case

00:17:36.600 directly to people

00:17:37.560 so it typically

00:17:39.140 goes through

00:17:39.580 a media filter

00:17:40.300 and of course

00:17:42.700 by the time

00:17:43.280 it gets to the

00:17:44.460 viewer

00:17:45.860 or the voter

00:17:47.340 the message

00:17:48.460 is diluted.

00:17:49.640 The left plays

00:17:50.500 the politics

00:17:51.020 of the division

00:17:51.600 very very well

00:17:52.440 in fact we're seeing

00:17:53.940 that right now

00:17:54.440 we're the prime minister.

00:17:56.740 Outlets such as Rome

00:17:57.880 help us get our message

00:17:59.500 across

00:17:59.940 I think it's important

00:18:01.340 that we communicate

00:18:02.380 a sensible

00:18:03.660 fair message

00:18:04.960 that can resonate

00:18:06.220 with Canadians

00:18:06.800 and that doesn't mean

00:18:08.000 that we have to

00:18:08.940 abandon our principles

00:18:10.000 on the contrary

00:18:11.280 we have to stand

00:18:12.580 by our principles

00:18:13.220 but we have to apply it

00:18:14.920 to everyday life

00:18:16.140 that is truly important

00:18:17.360 for Canadians.

00:18:18.580 Candice Bergen

00:18:19.360 the interim conservative leader

00:18:20.800 in her remarks

00:18:21.520 had said that

00:18:22.320 you need to have

00:18:23.280 a consistent

00:18:24.200 conservative message

00:18:25.440 and you need to be

00:18:26.600 unafraid to share it

00:18:27.620 and whether people

00:18:28.940 want to read

00:18:29.360 between the lines

00:18:30.040 and suggest she was

00:18:30.800 talking about

00:18:31.420 a particular leader

00:18:32.400 or candidate

00:18:33.440 in Canadian politics

00:18:35.220 I'll let people decide

00:18:36.080 but there is something

00:18:37.140 about that

00:18:37.540 where we look at

00:18:38.700 a lot of the comments

00:18:39.420 that are made

00:18:39.860 even in the last

00:18:40.440 two elections

00:18:40.980 by Andrew Scheer

00:18:41.660 and Aaron O'Toole

00:18:42.340 that fail to

00:18:44.380 have any real clarity

00:18:46.240 to them

00:18:46.700 when they're talking

00:18:47.360 to Canadians

00:18:48.080 and talking to voters

00:18:49.920 and talking as you mentioned

00:18:51.480 through the media filter

00:18:52.360 so I guess the question is

00:18:54.180 you know that

00:18:55.000 as a conservative leader

00:18:56.140 if you're successful

00:18:56.920 you're going to get

00:18:57.820 the same barrage

00:18:58.580 that every other

00:18:59.100 conservative leader

00:18:59.840 before you has gotten

00:19:00.780 how are you going

00:19:01.320 to stand up to them?

00:19:03.940 For the last year and a half

00:19:05.220 I've been doing

00:19:05.820 quite a bit of mainstream media

00:19:07.460 and have been able

00:19:08.700 to remain

00:19:09.400 not just consistent

00:19:10.660 but getting myself

00:19:12.120 invited back

00:19:12.920 I think that

00:19:13.900 media starts feeling

00:19:15.080 that the public

00:19:16.100 is a little uneasy

00:19:16.960 about the fact that

00:19:18.520 only one narrative

00:19:19.680 effectively has been presented

00:19:20.900 over the last

00:19:21.800 two years

00:19:22.700 I think COVID

00:19:23.600 exposed that very very well

00:19:25.140 in that everyday people

00:19:26.580 that perhaps felt differently

00:19:28.660 about the everyday

00:19:30.780 public health measures

00:19:32.140 felt that their view

00:19:33.180 was not represented

00:19:34.020 I think COVID exposed

00:19:35.660 the mainstream media

00:19:37.220 and governments

00:19:38.720 to some extent

00:19:39.420 and so

00:19:40.540 I am very confident

00:19:42.580 in continuing

00:19:43.940 to speak what I believe

00:19:45.700 and do what I believe

00:19:46.720 is right

00:19:47.100 I think that

00:19:48.600 also voters

00:19:49.680 generally appreciate

00:19:50.640 that

00:19:50.920 even if you disagree

00:19:53.380 with them

00:19:53.840 even if they disagree

00:19:54.780 with you

00:19:55.180 they would rather know

00:19:56.540 where you stood

00:19:57.460 and they would

00:19:58.880 respect you for that

00:19:59.820 and finally

00:20:00.640 there's a general

00:20:01.720 distrust

00:20:02.540 in the political system

00:20:04.000 generally

00:20:04.400 I think

00:20:04.840 it's at all time low

00:20:06.400 and so

00:20:08.000 clarity

00:20:08.980 on issues

00:20:10.580 and consistency

00:20:11.460 on issues

00:20:12.040 is something

00:20:13.140 that will go

00:20:13.900 very far

00:20:14.800 with voters

00:20:15.300 these days

00:20:15.720 and that's certainly

00:20:16.580 something that

00:20:17.200 will bring to the table

00:20:18.540 Roman Babber

00:20:19.540 thank you

00:20:20.240 thank you

00:20:20.600 thank you

00:20:21.200 thank you

00:20:21.660 that was Roman Babber

00:20:24.080 formerly up until

00:20:25.200 I think about

00:20:25.760 three or four days ago

00:20:26.700 the Ontario MPP

00:20:28.460 now a Conservative Party

00:20:30.040 of Canada

00:20:30.480 leadership candidate

00:20:31.620 one of six

00:20:33.200 in this race

00:20:34.220 and I should point out

00:20:35.420 about this

00:20:35.740 I don't actually think

00:20:36.380 I've done a show

00:20:37.160 dedicated to this topic

00:20:39.080 there was a big kerfuffle

00:20:40.360 late last week

00:20:41.660 about the cutoff

00:20:42.880 and who made the cut

00:20:44.500 because you had

00:20:45.040 other candidates

00:20:45.840 Mark Dalton

00:20:46.780 Leona Alice Lev

00:20:47.880 Grant Abraham

00:20:49.040 Joel Etienne

00:20:50.100 and Joseph Borgel

00:20:51.720 the latter of whom

00:20:52.540 was on this show

00:20:53.220 who said that

00:20:54.640 well I should say

00:20:55.880 that two of them

00:20:56.900 Mark Dalton

00:20:57.440 and Leona Alice Lev

00:20:58.400 said

00:20:58.720 we don't have the money

00:21:00.380 we don't have the signatures

00:21:01.520 we're dropping out of the race

00:21:02.820 the others said

00:21:04.140 that they did submit it

00:21:05.200 they submitted

00:21:05.740 the $300,000

00:21:06.760 in the signatures

00:21:07.600 to the party

00:21:08.200 and were still declined

00:21:09.900 and there was a lot

00:21:10.500 of confusion

00:21:11.060 about what had happened there

00:21:12.460 and there are two sources of it

00:21:14.480 and I mean

00:21:15.200 you can take this

00:21:16.540 for what it is

00:21:17.240 or not

00:21:17.840 but it is true

00:21:19.160 and it is something

00:21:19.940 that has happened

00:21:20.780 in past leadership races

00:21:22.440 where the party

00:21:24.020 takes a cut

00:21:24.840 of every donation

00:21:25.980 so if you donate

00:21:26.880 $100 to

00:21:28.000 your leadership

00:21:28.920 candidate of choice

00:21:29.960 Jean Charest

00:21:30.560 or Pierre Polyev

00:21:31.700 or Leslyn Lewis

00:21:32.460 whatever

00:21:32.840 the party takes

00:21:34.240 I think it's 15%

00:21:35.740 of that

00:21:36.340 so it's an $85

00:21:38.120 contribution

00:21:39.320 assuming it's 15%

00:21:40.660 it's an $85

00:21:41.340 contribution

00:21:42.360 or to make it easier

00:21:43.300 it's I guess

00:21:44.160 you know

00:21:44.860 whatever the case is

00:21:46.000 so that means

00:21:47.520 that when they say

00:21:48.580 they have to raise

00:21:49.400 $300,000

00:21:50.220 that's $300,000

00:21:52.840 net

00:21:53.920 so presumably

00:21:55.080 that would be

00:21:55.680 $345,000

00:21:57.580 that they need to raise

00:21:59.540 to the party

00:22:00.420 so for a lot of them

00:22:02.380 I think they only

00:22:03.300 just got $300,000

00:22:04.780 they only just cleared

00:22:06.100 that $300,000

00:22:07.220 and once the party

00:22:08.000 takes its cut

00:22:08.620 it's not there

00:22:09.140 now I believe 1.00

00:22:09.860 this is a stupid rule 1.00

00:22:11.060 I believe it's a bad rule 1.00

00:22:12.180 but it is a rule

00:22:13.380 and it's something

00:22:13.920 that's been made

00:22:14.620 transparent

00:22:15.360 and forthright

00:22:16.500 to the candidates

00:22:17.820 themselves

00:22:18.320 Joseph Borgel

00:22:19.720 he said he cleared that

00:22:21.640 he said they handed

00:22:22.400 over to the party

00:22:23.080 I think it was

00:22:23.680 $367,000

00:22:25.300 or something like that

00:22:26.480 and we're still

00:22:27.360 declined

00:22:27.800 and this is where

00:22:28.660 people start to get

00:22:29.660 a bit more

00:22:30.340 conspiratorial

00:22:31.760 or suspicious

00:22:32.620 about it

00:22:33.180 because there are

00:22:34.260 a lot of

00:22:34.780 compliance measures

00:22:35.760 in place

00:22:36.260 about how money

00:22:37.040 has to be processed

00:22:37.980 now these are

00:22:38.600 Elections Canada rules

00:22:40.120 like one of them

00:22:40.720 for example is

00:22:41.520 because every donation

00:22:42.760 has to be tracked

00:22:43.520 to an individual

00:22:44.220 and there are

00:22:44.780 donation limits

00:22:45.540 if you send a check

00:22:47.020 that's from two people

00:22:48.620 so sometimes a couple

00:22:50.180 will have both names

00:22:51.200 on the check

00:22:51.720 there's something

00:22:52.660 that needs to be done

00:22:53.400 to clarify who

00:22:54.500 that money came from

00:22:55.620 did it come from

00:22:56.380 Mr. Smith

00:22:57.220 or Mrs. Smith

00:22:58.360 and if you don't do that

00:22:59.920 it's not nullified

00:23:01.020 but they need to go back

00:23:01.940 and check it

00:23:02.640 and assess it

00:23:03.420 so if you send

00:23:04.480 all your stuff in

00:23:05.160 on the last day

00:23:06.000 you actually don't

00:23:07.260 have enough time

00:23:08.160 to go back

00:23:09.160 and reassess this

00:23:10.880 and deal with it

00:23:11.660 now you're also relying

00:23:13.480 on the goodwill

00:23:14.040 of the party

00:23:14.600 to quickly review

00:23:16.100 these things

00:23:16.720 and I would say

00:23:17.560 that the party

00:23:18.580 should have

00:23:19.440 built in a review period

00:23:20.860 after the submission

00:23:22.160 say we're going to submit

00:23:23.480 and then we'll give you

00:23:24.580 three or four days

00:23:25.420 on top of that

00:23:26.200 to fix any issues we see

00:23:27.620 but they just have

00:23:28.880 a hard cut off

00:23:29.640 and if you submit

00:23:30.620 your stuff early

00:23:31.260 apparently they'll tell you

00:23:32.380 and if you don't submit

00:23:33.340 your stuff early

00:23:33.920 you're just hoping

00:23:34.500 that you got it right

00:23:35.240 and have everything there

00:23:36.320 and it is unfortunate

00:23:37.740 because when you have

00:23:38.600 stories like this

00:23:39.580 they undermine confidence

00:23:41.300 in the process

00:23:42.260 and they make it look like

00:23:43.440 people like Joel Etienne

00:23:45.160 who most Canadians

00:23:46.080 have never heard of

00:23:46.920 and Joseph Borgel

00:23:48.180 who was running

00:23:48.800 quite a strong

00:23:50.040 grassroots upstart campaign

00:23:52.320 for a political unknown

00:23:53.340 it makes people think

00:23:54.520 that they're being disqualified

00:23:55.540 because of their views

00:23:56.700 rather than because

00:23:57.900 of administrative stuff

00:23:59.260 and that's the worst thing

00:24:01.440 in the world

00:24:01.800 when you have to start

00:24:02.620 talking about process

00:24:03.960 because people don't trust

00:24:05.380 and people don't believe

00:24:06.680 that you actually

00:24:08.060 have your stuff together

00:24:09.100 and are letting this

00:24:09.960 be a fair fight

00:24:10.740 and that's not an accusation

00:24:12.300 of anything

00:24:12.740 I'm not saying

00:24:13.480 wrongdoing took place

00:24:14.600 I'm merely pointing out

00:24:16.260 that when people

00:24:17.460 don't trust the system

00:24:18.660 it becomes very difficult

00:24:19.920 to get anything else done

00:24:21.520 but however it came about

00:24:23.160 there are six candidates

00:24:24.220 in the race remaining

00:24:25.180 and of those

00:24:26.180 one of them

00:24:26.900 is uninterested

00:24:28.040 in doing debates

00:24:29.200 and interviews so far

00:24:30.180 and that's Patrick Brown

00:24:31.120 and you'll notice

00:24:32.340 I've been taking

00:24:33.040 quite a light touch

00:24:34.240 to the leadership race

00:24:35.720 and part of that

00:24:36.460 is because

00:24:36.960 actually I'd say

00:24:37.440 almost all of that

00:24:38.200 actually is because

00:24:38.780 on May 30th

00:24:39.560 as I mentioned earlier

00:24:40.300 I'm going to be

00:24:40.740 moderating that debate

00:24:41.720 so I don't want to come out

00:24:42.880 swinging towards

00:24:43.580 this candidate

00:24:44.280 or that candidate

00:24:45.120 so much so that

00:24:46.100 they're going to be like

00:24:46.580 oh well I don't trust him

00:24:47.680 to be a fair moderator

00:24:48.640 no I've interviewed

00:24:49.660 all the candidates

00:24:50.460 I'll interview them all again

00:24:51.600 we were trying to get

00:24:52.420 some done

00:24:52.940 at the Canada Strong

00:24:54.280 and Free Conference

00:24:54.900 and weren't able

00:24:55.680 to sit down with everyone

00:24:56.560 but we're going to keep

00:24:57.580 sending out those invitations

00:24:58.860 and I'm actually tomorrow

00:25:00.400 going to be in Edmonton

00:25:01.540 for the first official

00:25:03.720 Conservative Party of Canada debate

00:25:05.760 which I should point out

00:25:07.380 interestingly enough

00:25:08.280 Patrick Brown has to be at

00:25:10.040 under the party's rules

00:25:11.600 under the rules

00:25:12.200 they set out

00:25:12.900 the leadership candidates

00:25:14.540 have to go to the two

00:25:15.520 official party debates

00:25:16.600 and if they don't

00:25:17.580 they can be fined

00:25:18.380 I think it's like $50,000

00:25:19.620 that comes out of their

00:25:21.340 compliance deposit

00:25:22.400 so I mean theoretically

00:25:24.060 you could skip it

00:25:24.960 if you think that

00:25:26.020 you know the $50,000

00:25:27.100 is not worth

00:25:27.980 whatever you could gain

00:25:28.840 by not going

00:25:30.180 because the Brown campaign's

00:25:31.760 view is that

00:25:32.260 they get more

00:25:33.220 out of not going to debates

00:25:34.440 by going to

00:25:35.520 seek temples

00:25:36.760 and Muslim mosques

00:25:38.500 as opposed to like

00:25:39.320 other non-Muslim mosques

00:25:40.560 but temples and mosques

00:25:41.920 and churches

00:25:42.440 and synagogues 1.00

00:25:43.360 and all of these things

00:25:44.040 and selling up memberships

00:25:45.640 that's their view

00:25:46.480 that's their strategy

00:25:47.380 so he actually

00:25:48.880 Patrick Brown sent out

00:25:50.060 a thing as I mentioned

00:25:51.200 on the last show

00:25:51.840 that he won

00:25:52.500 he said he won the debate

00:25:53.520 by not going

00:25:54.240 which is

00:25:54.680 I mean that

00:25:55.460 if you can

00:25:55.880 maybe you can win the election

00:25:56.760 by not running

00:25:57.360 maybe I could be the

00:25:58.220 leader of the Conservative Party

00:26:00.000 of Canada

00:26:00.500 by the time

00:26:01.580 this is all done

00:26:02.360 we've got to wrap things up

00:26:03.660 there on the next show

00:26:04.740 we'll have some reports

00:26:05.880 from the Edmonton

00:26:06.940 Conservative Leadership Debate

00:26:08.180 and also

00:26:08.620 some other interviews

00:26:09.780 that I did

00:26:10.440 when we were over

00:26:11.020 at the Canada

00:26:11.720 Strong and Free Networking Conference

00:26:13.200 and other things

00:26:14.160 that are happening

00:26:14.680 in the country

00:26:15.440 we got you covered

00:26:16.360 this is Canada's

00:26:17.540 most irreverent talk show

00:26:18.760 here on True North

00:26:19.480 we'll talk to you soon

00:26:20.500 thank you

00:26:20.900 God bless

00:26:21.400 and good day to you all

00:26:22.400 thanks for listening

00:26:23.180 to the Andrew Lawton Show

00:26:24.380 support the program

00:26:25.660 by donating to True North

00:26:26.900 at www.tnc.news

00:26:30.340 H classic

00:26:32.160 and affey is

00:26:32.260 with Tim

00:26:32.860 calling

00:26:33.880 Amazon

00:26:34.500 Tim

00:26:35.740 and

00:26:36.500 Johnson

00:26:36.580 are

00:26:37.160 are

00:26:38.560 not

00:26:38.900 an

00:26:39.340 Manuel

00:26:40.280 チ

00:26:44.000 will

00:26:44.420 go

00:26:44.660 we'll be

00:26:45.760 in the old

00:26:46.620 team

00:26:47.180 another

00:26:48.740 time

00:26:48.780 for

00:26:49.140 what

00:26:49.720 In the old

00:26:51.400 way

00:26:51.580 if I

00:26:52.040 he

00:26:53.680 Nut

00:26:55.660 is

00:26:56.020 a

00:26:56.440 good

00:26:57.440 way

Juno News - May 11, 2022

Conservative leadership race becomes referendum on Freedom Convoy

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