Juno News - March 18, 2020


Conservative Leadership Series： Derek Sloan


Episode Stats

Length

31 minutes

Words per Minute

190.6548

Word Count

5,930

Sentence Count

348

Misogynist Sentences

2

Hate Speech Sentences

2


Summary

In this episode of the Andrew Lawton Show, we speak with Conservative leadership candidate Derek Sloan. Derek Sloan is a member of Parliament for the riding of Hastings and Lennox and Addington in his first term and is already making waves in the Conservative leadership race.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:08.220 Welcome to another edition of The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:00:11.400 We've been talking a lot about the Conservative leadership race
00:00:14.220 and decided it's time to hear from the candidates themselves.
00:00:17.680 We're in the midst of a series right now talking in depth about the policies,
00:00:22.160 the visions, the platforms, the ideas,
00:00:24.480 all of the things that those vying to lead the Conservative Party
00:00:27.660 are really putting forward right now.
00:00:29.760 And even some that they haven't put forward yet
00:00:31.440 that we'll try to get out of them in the course of our discussions.
00:00:34.940 Today we have Derek Sloan, the Member of Parliament for Hastings, Lennox and Addington,
00:00:39.300 in his first term and already making waves.
00:00:41.860 It is good to talk to you, Derek.
00:00:43.140 Thanks very much for taking the time to speak.
00:00:45.120 Thanks for having me today, Andrew.
00:00:46.460 So you were just elected in October
00:00:48.620 and now you're in the midst of this leadership race here.
00:00:51.500 Was this an ambition that you had had prior to running
00:00:54.400 to eventually seek the leadership and seek the premiership of the country?
00:00:58.180 Well, when I got into politics, I did it for one reason.
00:01:02.160 And that was because I felt that our fundamental freedoms in Canada are being eroded.
00:01:06.340 Freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion.
00:01:09.700 And so I wanted to get into politics to impact that in any way that I could
00:01:14.000 and to do that as best as I could.
00:01:17.280 When I saw the leadership race open, I thought about it very seriously and carefully
00:01:21.800 and even prayerfully.
00:01:23.700 And I felt that now was the time for me to move forward
00:01:26.460 and to put forward what I hope will be the benchmark of what a conservative policy should look like,
00:01:35.000 including rigid protections for those three freedoms I mentioned at the beginning.
00:01:40.300 Is this about making a point for you and having those issues discussed in the race?
00:01:45.300 Or is this something where you're genuinely in it to win it, as the saying goes?
00:01:49.480 I'm in this to win it.
00:01:50.400 There's no other reason to do this, in my view.
00:01:52.980 I am the third candidate to reach the verified level.
00:01:56.420 So I'm the third candidate to have access to the list.
00:02:00.380 We're currently sending out an email to the entire list.
00:02:03.680 Some people will have received that already.
00:02:05.860 And hopefully by the time they watch this interview,
00:02:08.140 everyone will have received their first email.
00:02:10.300 So you say that you are a conservative without apology.
00:02:13.740 That's been the slogan of the campaign.
00:02:15.720 That's been the message you've been driving home.
00:02:18.060 What does that mean to you?
00:02:19.680 Well, I think that there's different opinions, I suppose, on what conservatives should be.
00:02:25.140 But I feel that oftentimes we use the media or the mainstream media as a litmus test
00:02:30.140 of sort of what we should do and what we should say.
00:02:32.680 And a lot of conservatives feel that we're compromising on that message.
00:02:36.040 So to me, I feel that we have to make sure that our plan is a conservative plan that does not compromise
00:02:46.800 and then sell our message.
00:02:49.220 So instead of looking at the media or looking at the public right now and saying,
00:02:55.900 well, what do they want to hear?
00:02:57.180 And politics is partly about what people want to hear.
00:02:59.880 But it's also about, and I believe the conservative party needs to not be that party.
00:03:04.760 I think the liberal party, their raison d'etre is, well, what do we think people want to hear?
00:03:10.280 What can we do to stay in power?
00:03:11.480 And I think that the conservatives, obviously winning has to be very important to us.
00:03:16.100 But we also have to say, look, what are our principles?
00:03:19.220 How can we take our principles and share them in a way that is compelling and that people buy into?
00:03:26.100 And I feel that what we typically do is we focus on a narrow subset of issues like the economy
00:03:31.660 or liberal corruption, but we fail to have answers to other issues that people are concerned about.
00:03:37.380 When you talk about the economy as being a narrow issue, there are a lot of people that would say the opposite,
00:03:43.280 that the economy and putting fiscal conservatism forward is among the most broadly appealing
00:03:48.420 and ultimately most significant things that a conservative party can do.
00:03:52.200 So how do you view that as a narrow subset of conservatism?
00:03:54.940 Yeah, so even when you take a look at how we address the economy, it's in a narrow way, okay?
00:03:59.660 So obviously the economy overall is important.
00:04:02.580 But if you look at the messaging in the last election, it was basically this.
00:04:06.120 Hey, we'll save you a couple hundred bucks if you vote for us.
00:04:09.220 If you put your kids in soccer, if you, you know, we have this thing that'll save you 200 bucks.
00:04:13.260 We have this thing that'll save you 150 bucks.
00:04:15.900 It was a competition for gimmies.
00:04:18.400 Who can give the most?
00:04:19.540 Who can save you the most?
00:04:20.920 So we didn't.
00:04:22.700 We had a lot of goodies, but we didn't even have some of these sort of broad-based tax reform ideas
00:04:29.040 that a fiscal conservative would have even wanted.
00:04:32.420 I don't even know of fiscal conservatives that would have been super enthralled with our messaging in the last campaign.
00:04:39.340 Obviously, they would have preferred us to the liberals.
00:04:41.360 They would have assumed that we would, you know, treat the public purse with more respect.
00:04:46.460 But I don't think there was any fiscal conservatives that were doing somersaults or cartwheels
00:04:50.520 with the messaging in the last election.
00:04:52.920 So what are some of those, I'd say, hardline, for lack of a better term,
00:04:56.960 or bolder fiscal proposals that you would want to see?
00:04:59.780 Well, we haven't actually, so we haven't released our fiscal platform yet,
00:05:04.420 so I'll speak in broad strokes.
00:05:06.180 But it involves broad-based tax reform and simplification.
00:05:10.720 And that's a necessity.
00:05:12.460 I mean, we need to make sure that we are actually reducing the tax burden on middle-class Canadians,
00:05:19.020 and frankly, all Canadians.
00:05:20.340 But the middle class is usually unable to avoid taxation.
00:05:27.380 Unlike people in higher tax brackets have different abilities to be able to move assets
00:05:32.240 to different jurisdictions and so on.
00:05:33.900 But we need broad-based tax reform because our tax rates are not competitive with the United States.
00:05:38.920 And so to boost the entrepreneurship and the capital formation and the business formation that we want,
00:05:45.700 we do need to have broad-based tax reform.
00:05:48.780 What are the things that, because you ran as a Conservative in this election that you're saying
00:05:54.560 wasn't really adequately putting a Conservative message forward,
00:05:58.120 what were the things that you would say the Conservative Party has typically done very well?
00:06:02.860 The things that, in the current party, as it stands, you're proud to stand with?
00:06:08.120 Well, you know what?
00:06:09.060 I think we actually fought a very good election,
00:06:11.180 and we followed conventional wisdom to the T, which is, you know, avoid controversial issues,
00:06:19.100 focus on the economy, and sort of keep it simple.
00:06:22.400 You know, keep it simple, focus on the economy, and focus on liberal corruption.
00:06:26.340 So I think we ran a very disciplined campaign.
00:06:29.060 I think we ran a very hard-working campaign.
00:06:33.600 All the candidates worked very hard.
00:06:35.320 We knocked on a lot of doors.
00:06:36.320 I think we were just afraid to branch beyond that.
00:06:40.100 So we need to lead with a big vision.
00:06:43.220 And there were some things that were starting to become visionary in our plan,
00:06:47.200 like the Energy Corridor, I think, was that type of visionary idea.
00:06:50.960 But we have to lead with a vision, not lead with,
00:06:54.220 I'm going to save you $200 if you put your kids in soccer.
00:06:56.700 So you reject that conventional wisdom, though, you had said earlier.
00:07:00.300 I do. I do.
00:07:00.600 So it was a safe campaign, but you think that there is a problem with the premise that that is a positive.
00:07:06.740 Yes. Well, we did everything right.
00:07:08.260 And still lost.
00:07:09.720 Yeah. Now, here's the thing.
00:07:11.120 Prior to the election, maybe that would have been a good idea.
00:07:13.940 Hindsight's 20-20.
00:07:15.300 But I think, and I hope that we've learned from that election,
00:07:17.720 that playing it super safe and working really, really, really hard
00:07:20.820 doesn't always pay dividends in politics.
00:07:23.620 You have to buck the trend.
00:07:24.900 You have to buck the narrative.
00:07:26.220 You have to lead with the vision.
00:07:27.300 You have to be willing to talk about all issues that people are concerned with.
00:07:31.300 And you have to be, you have to have answers for everything.
00:07:33.980 That's what governing parties do.
00:07:35.980 And that's what we need to do as well.
00:07:37.640 One of the things that I've spoken about in the past,
00:07:39.640 and I know you've seen this directly,
00:07:41.340 is that the Andrew Scheer social conservative problem,
00:07:45.880 what Peter McKay calls an albatross,
00:07:47.860 what a lot of people in the conservative party derided,
00:07:50.700 was really the worst of both worlds.
00:07:52.380 Because he was backing away from a lot of the things that he had said previously
00:07:56.580 in the election,
00:07:57.920 but still getting hit for being the social conservative
00:08:00.740 and pushing forward this.
00:08:02.260 And I guess it goes two ways.
00:08:03.840 Because on one hand, you could say,
00:08:05.080 okay, if you're going to get hit with it,
00:08:06.580 if that's who you are,
00:08:07.640 you might as well be it,
00:08:08.620 and you might as well own it.
00:08:10.000 But the flip side of that is that we saw firsthand
00:08:12.720 the hostility that the media has towards people that have those beliefs.
00:08:16.860 You've been, in your own words, without apology about them.
00:08:19.620 You've received very prominent support from social conservative groups.
00:08:23.720 It's a part of who you are.
00:08:24.720 But do you think that that is something that needs to be addressed
00:08:28.620 by way of a strategy?
00:08:30.740 Or do you think it's just about saying,
00:08:32.460 this is who I am, take it or leave it?
00:08:35.180 It is about owning it.
00:08:36.300 And it's also about realizing that the media narrative
00:08:39.000 is not necessarily reality.
00:08:40.960 So, you know, I was at an event this morning,
00:08:44.120 and I was speaking with a variety of individuals
00:08:46.600 from the minority community.
00:08:49.320 And, you know, they were telling me that people in their groups
00:08:52.160 typically vote liberal, but the bulk of them by far,
00:08:55.220 and they've looked into this and they've done even surveys,
00:08:58.420 are socially conservative.
00:09:00.120 So being, at least having something to say,
00:09:02.440 I mean, you know, we need to be careful how we address all issues,
00:09:06.880 but having something to say
00:09:08.000 can actually give us an avenue to break into other groups.
00:09:11.580 And what the conservatives are always trying to do
00:09:14.000 is trying to broaden the window of support.
00:09:15.920 Because we know that almost no matter what we do,
00:09:18.420 there's a certain percentage of people
00:09:19.760 who will always vote for us.
00:09:21.100 But we say, look, we need to move
00:09:22.460 into the middle territory a little bit.
00:09:24.480 So having something to say,
00:09:26.620 and you know what, so saying that you're pro-life,
00:09:30.240 so saying, hey, these are my beliefs,
00:09:31.460 but I promise I won't do anything about it,
00:09:33.360 sends the wrong message to both groups of people.
00:09:36.460 The one side aren't going to believe you anyways,
00:09:38.740 and the people that hope that you're going to stand up
00:09:40.580 for their values are going to say,
00:09:41.800 well, that's not standing up for my values.
00:09:43.320 So I think that's what happened in this last election.
00:09:47.060 But I think that having something reasonable to say
00:09:49.360 on a variety of these issues,
00:09:51.560 you know, and to take abortion for an example,
00:09:53.980 we're the only Western country,
00:09:56.460 we're the only developed country
00:09:57.740 that has zero laws on abortion.
00:09:59.980 Most people don't even know that.
00:10:01.500 So to say, hey, I'm okay with Parliament
00:10:04.500 being able to do its work,
00:10:05.860 with people to bring forward bills
00:10:07.380 and have a discussion on this,
00:10:08.980 I think that's a message that can sell.
00:10:10.680 I think that puts us on the side of, you know,
00:10:13.040 common sense and reality
00:10:14.360 and makes the other parties
00:10:16.220 who are bending over backwards
00:10:18.100 to retain the legal vacuum that we have
00:10:21.360 will look silly.
00:10:23.260 I think that's a great example of where,
00:10:25.600 to use your words,
00:10:26.480 the media narrative and the public narrative
00:10:28.200 can really diverge
00:10:29.840 because most people don't know,
00:10:31.620 you're correct,
00:10:32.220 that there is zero limit on abortion.
00:10:34.440 Most people, I don't think,
00:10:35.940 know that there is zero limit
00:10:37.120 on sex-selective abortion, by example.
00:10:39.760 In very late trimester.
00:10:41.200 And all of that, I think, is very fair.
00:10:43.760 And if you are to bring up these issues,
00:10:46.040 it really is seen by the media differently
00:10:49.600 than I think the general public would.
00:10:51.180 But I guess it gets back to the question of,
00:10:53.180 is it worth that fight for you?
00:10:55.400 Is it worth that fight to raise those issues
00:10:57.320 when it means that no one will listen
00:10:59.140 to what you say about tax reform,
00:11:00.680 when it means no one will listen
00:11:01.860 to what you say about the energy policy
00:11:04.180 and all of these other files?
00:11:06.060 Well, here's the thing.
00:11:06.720 I don't think if Peter McKay
00:11:08.660 was running the party in this last election
00:11:10.280 that we would have won, okay?
00:11:12.700 If a pro, you know, if someone who,
00:11:14.860 now it's going to, no matter what,
00:11:17.560 no matter who wins,
00:11:18.720 they will either focus on somebody else
00:11:20.760 or they'll raise the bar in such a way
00:11:23.620 that Peter McKay or whoever can't comply.
00:11:26.020 So yes, he's saying he's pro-choice,
00:11:27.620 he's saying a few things.
00:11:28.800 They will always find something else.
00:11:30.740 They will find some other hoop
00:11:32.260 that he needs to jump through
00:11:33.900 that he either won't, or if he does,
00:11:36.460 will fracture his support in another area.
00:11:38.540 So we're never safe from the litmus test
00:11:41.040 that they put on us.
00:11:42.220 Secondly, even if he somehow manages
00:11:44.680 to pass through every litmus test,
00:11:46.180 which would probably alienate us
00:11:47.760 from a variety of people in our own base,
00:11:50.580 if he somehow turns out to be the media darling,
00:11:53.340 they'll just focus on somebody else.
00:11:55.240 So maybe Peter McKay's okay,
00:11:56.900 but they'll start talking about
00:11:58.040 the other members in caucus that are pro-life,
00:12:00.740 and there's many of them.
00:12:01.760 So it doesn't matter who you elect.
00:12:05.060 They will make that the election issue
00:12:07.300 every single time.
00:12:08.900 And, you know, Andrew Scheer did everything
00:12:10.700 in his power to avoid the issue,
00:12:12.140 and they brought it up anyways.
00:12:13.360 And people will say,
00:12:14.280 oh, he didn't have the right answers,
00:12:15.500 or he had those beliefs.
00:12:17.660 Mark my words, you pick somebody else
00:12:19.320 who has different beliefs,
00:12:20.280 they will do it anyways.
00:12:21.680 No matter what we do,
00:12:23.060 they will put those litmus tests on us.
00:12:24.880 So we need to stand up and say,
00:12:26.640 I don't care what you're going to do.
00:12:28.220 We're going to stand anyways
00:12:29.720 and go directly to the people,
00:12:31.420 and the people will see through it.
00:12:33.820 Does your conservative party,
00:12:36.160 your ideal conservative party
00:12:37.560 that you'd like to forge as leader,
00:12:39.580 take form as a pro-life party
00:12:41.920 or as a party with pro-lifers?
00:12:44.100 Well, here's the thing.
00:12:46.520 I've never said that I would whip the vote
00:12:49.280 in the direction that I want it to.
00:12:51.380 My whole point has been,
00:12:52.520 look, MPs need to be free
00:12:54.120 to represent their own values
00:12:55.900 and their own constituents
00:12:56.960 according to their conscience.
00:12:58.720 So I think the party
00:13:00.820 will probably always have
00:13:01.920 a variety of different views in it,
00:13:03.360 and I'm okay with that.
00:13:04.720 And it's the other people
00:13:06.160 that are not okay with that.
00:13:07.540 But I'm fine with that.
00:13:08.560 I don't feel the need
00:13:09.700 to force somebody else
00:13:12.520 to vote against something
00:13:13.940 that they don't want to.
00:13:15.100 That's not what a leader should do.
00:13:17.000 And we saw, I think,
00:13:18.520 that divide,
00:13:19.620 certainly in the last couple of weeks,
00:13:21.100 with Richard de Carie,
00:13:22.440 at the time a contender
00:13:24.220 for the leadership
00:13:25.180 of the Conservative Party,
00:13:26.380 disqualified by the party,
00:13:28.220 and rather than go home,
00:13:29.700 has endorsed you.
00:13:30.500 And you've actually welcomed
00:13:31.380 that endorsement.
00:13:32.200 And I'm curious
00:13:33.020 if you could explain that,
00:13:34.680 because there's certainly
00:13:35.780 a political risk there
00:13:37.120 in campaigning alongside someone
00:13:39.720 that your party has said,
00:13:41.240 we don't want anything to do with.
00:13:42.900 Well, we don't know the reasons
00:13:44.380 why he was not allowed to continue.
00:13:47.080 We can only speculate.
00:13:49.040 And Richard himself doesn't know.
00:13:51.220 He got an email that said,
00:13:52.520 sorry, you're disqualified.
00:13:54.000 So we can only speculate.
00:13:55.400 And there's different rumors abounding.
00:13:57.480 And the Globe and Mail
00:13:58.160 has written some articles on,
00:14:00.860 initially, a leak said,
00:14:04.800 oh, it was about something private.
00:14:06.760 And then they found out that,
00:14:08.120 no, in fact,
00:14:08.800 they hadn't asked him
00:14:09.700 any private questions.
00:14:11.520 So we don't really,
00:14:12.560 we don't know what the reason is
00:14:15.100 that he was disqualified,
00:14:15.960 but he was disqualified.
00:14:17.180 It could have been, for example,
00:14:19.840 maybe, maybe there were some people
00:14:22.680 who thought he would do well in Quebec
00:14:23.800 and that concerned them.
00:14:25.520 So there seems to be something going on
00:14:27.940 behind the scenes
00:14:28.680 that's not entirely fair.
00:14:30.440 And, you know, we don't,
00:14:32.180 we don't know what that is.
00:14:33.240 I don't know what that is.
00:14:34.640 But it does seem unusual to me
00:14:36.980 that he was not allowed to proceed.
00:14:38.720 And I'll tell you,
00:14:39.240 a lot of people were upset by that.
00:14:40.860 And not just people in Quebec.
00:14:42.260 There's people out West,
00:14:44.080 there's people all across the country
00:14:45.580 that were upset by that.
00:14:47.160 And the party sent the wrong message.
00:14:49.080 You really need to let the race progress.
00:14:51.600 And even if you don't want somebody to run,
00:14:53.840 you need to let the base have their say.
00:14:55.940 And I think it was a mistake what they did.
00:14:58.160 You had said on social media recently,
00:15:00.700 I can't remember the exact day,
00:15:01.860 that it's time to cancel,
00:15:03.100 cancel culture in the CPC.
00:15:05.480 So you weren't talking about general,
00:15:07.620 social and cultural cancel culture,
00:15:09.520 but a culture that you said permeates
00:15:11.280 within the Conservative Party.
00:15:12.920 And I don't know whether you were talking about
00:15:14.940 Dick Harry specifically or a broader issue,
00:15:17.360 but the point stands,
00:15:18.640 if you're not the leader of the Conservative Party
00:15:20.940 in the next few months,
00:15:22.280 could you be a part of that party still
00:15:24.440 that has what you've identified
00:15:25.860 as this toxic culture within it?
00:15:28.080 Yeah, you know,
00:15:28.540 and I should be fair to the Conservative Party as well,
00:15:30.620 because I, you know,
00:15:31.460 I hear, I speak to all sorts of people.
00:15:33.860 And there's some people that say,
00:15:34.860 well, you know,
00:15:35.260 the Conservative Party is beyond repair.
00:15:37.320 And I say, no,
00:15:38.460 the Conservative Party is not nearly,
00:15:40.420 there's not nearly as much of a cancel culture
00:15:43.120 in the party as there is in society as a whole
00:15:45.760 and some other segments.
00:15:47.320 The party is, by and large,
00:15:49.540 filled with good people.
00:15:50.820 Now, and again,
00:15:52.660 I don't believe there's some conspiracy.
00:15:54.160 I believe that there's some people
00:15:55.220 who I would disagree with
00:15:57.000 and acted unfairly
00:15:58.200 in terms of not allowing Richard to proceed.
00:16:01.380 But overall, the party is filled with good people,
00:16:04.480 although there are people in the party
00:16:06.340 that feel that those who have,
00:16:09.800 you know, socially conservative views
00:16:11.040 or other views don't belong
00:16:12.140 and need to be pushed out.
00:16:13.960 If they do that,
00:16:15.440 the party will never win
00:16:16.980 and they will never retain dominance as a government.
00:16:21.140 But having said that,
00:16:22.240 I'm very proud of the party.
00:16:23.860 And I believe that, you know,
00:16:26.000 not only can we make improvements,
00:16:27.740 we can be great
00:16:28.640 and we can be the dominant force
00:16:30.320 in the political sphere in this country.
00:16:33.140 And I encourage everybody to come on board
00:16:35.820 and do not think that our best days are behind us.
00:16:40.240 Our best days are in front of us.
00:16:41.640 I am positive of that.
00:16:42.960 With everything we've seen in the last six months,
00:16:45.140 from the election
00:16:45.780 to the post-mortem of the election
00:16:48.440 to the way Andrew Scheer was treated after the election,
00:16:52.000 do you think that the big blue tent
00:16:53.440 is still a viable idea?
00:16:55.720 This idea of red Tories, blue Tories,
00:16:58.420 libertarians, social conservatives,
00:17:00.240 fiscal conservatives,
00:17:00.980 do you think that it's still practical
00:17:03.100 that all of those people
00:17:04.600 can come together under one banner?
00:17:07.100 Yeah, and, you know, in all fairness,
00:17:08.640 maybe this is controversial.
00:17:10.780 It's not us.
00:17:12.360 It's not social conservatives
00:17:13.460 that are trying to push other people out of the party.
00:17:15.980 I don't know of an example
00:17:18.060 of a red Tories seat being targeted,
00:17:20.480 for example.
00:17:21.840 You know, we see different nomination contests
00:17:25.080 where it's very clear
00:17:25.980 that social conservatives are being targeted.
00:17:28.580 So as far as I'm concerned,
00:17:30.180 the party should and can be open to anybody.
00:17:33.480 And I have no problem with anybody
00:17:35.300 being involved in the party.
00:17:37.180 And I think that it's not us
00:17:40.220 that is driving that narrative,
00:17:41.800 it's other people.
00:17:42.880 And I have nothing to say further
00:17:46.460 other than that all conservatives
00:17:49.020 would be welcome in a party run by me,
00:17:51.440 and nobody would be targeted or penalized.
00:17:53.960 It would be free votes,
00:17:55.100 it would be free discussion
00:17:56.880 and no behind-the-scene machinations
00:18:01.220 and arm twistings and things like that.
00:18:03.220 Let's talk about the conservative party that you want.
00:18:06.340 So fast forward,
00:18:07.640 you're successful as a leadership candidate,
00:18:09.680 you are the leader of the conservatives,
00:18:11.140 you're the leader of the official opposition.
00:18:13.400 What's the top priority for you
00:18:15.120 as opposition leader?
00:18:16.360 Well, I think that we need to establish our brand
00:18:21.040 going into the next election.
00:18:22.720 So we need to start messaging on issues,
00:18:26.160 the traditional conservative issues
00:18:27.640 in a big and bold way,
00:18:28.800 and then other issues as well.
00:18:30.200 So we need to have bold answers for housing,
00:18:33.920 like affordable housing.
00:18:35.140 And I mean that in two contexts.
00:18:37.740 I mean that in the context of the rising prices
00:18:39.820 in the GTA and other areas,
00:18:41.600 and also traditional affordable housing
00:18:44.240 for low-income people.
00:18:45.840 So that's just an example of an issue
00:18:48.120 in the GTA right now and in BC that's huge.
00:18:51.440 We need to have a good conservative answer for that,
00:18:53.740 and we can.
00:18:54.580 So we need to start messaging
00:18:55.720 on some of these other issues
00:18:56.860 that are not traditionally conservative,
00:18:59.040 but as a governing party,
00:19:00.820 you need to have answers for all of these issues.
00:19:03.640 I would also be sure to put forward a framework
00:19:07.580 that is very robust from a free speech
00:19:10.680 and a freedom of conscience perspective.
00:19:13.180 And we also need to start reaching out
00:19:14.940 across the country.
00:19:15.780 So we need to start reaching out
00:19:16.800 in different constituencies,
00:19:18.880 reaching out to First Nations,
00:19:20.560 reaching out to all the groups
00:19:22.560 that make Canada what it is.
00:19:24.340 And that would be what we need
00:19:25.360 to start doing from day one.
00:19:27.200 What's your first opposition bill
00:19:28.960 or your first opposition motion?
00:19:31.380 Well, you know what?
00:19:32.240 That's a good question.
00:19:33.260 And I don't have an answer for you on that,
00:19:36.780 but I think what would need to happen
00:19:38.580 is we get together as a caucus
00:19:40.120 and we decide our priorities together.
00:19:42.200 I'm going to be putting forward
00:19:43.320 what I feel is a good platform for the party
00:19:45.820 and I hope that people buy into that.
00:19:49.060 But once you're a leader of the party,
00:19:51.700 you need to lead with caucus behind you
00:19:55.240 and beside you,
00:19:56.420 not just from the top down.
00:19:58.340 And that's my plan should I become leader.
00:20:01.360 Let's talk a little bit about the free speech aspect.
00:20:03.980 I think we touched on it within the party context,
00:20:06.460 but from the perspective of Canadian policy,
00:20:09.200 are there areas where you think the federal government
00:20:11.360 could actually do a better job on free speech?
00:20:14.500 And I know that for the benefit of listeners
00:20:16.620 that might not know and viewers,
00:20:18.020 you were involved in the Trinity Western case
00:20:20.280 where the Supreme Court very much sided
00:20:22.340 against conscience rights.
00:20:23.500 But what are some things that as leader,
00:20:25.820 you could champion?
00:20:27.000 Well, that's a good question.
00:20:27.820 So we're going to be looking
00:20:29.300 at the Canadian Human Rights Act.
00:20:30.860 I've already said that I'm going to be
00:20:32.580 repealing Bill C-16.
00:20:34.340 So that became the epicenter
00:20:37.860 of the discussion on free speech recently.
00:20:40.320 That was how Jordan Peterson rose to fame.
00:20:42.800 He was talking about the compelled speech
00:20:44.300 issued behind C-16.
00:20:46.580 So I think right now,
00:20:49.620 the nexus of sort of the free speech,
00:20:52.460 there's obviously an educational component.
00:20:54.740 Universities can be hostile towards free speech.
00:20:57.580 So there is elements of,
00:20:59.380 hey, you want federal funding?
00:21:00.660 We need to see X, Y, Z from you on this
00:21:02.780 when it comes to universities.
00:21:04.500 There's also issues right now
00:21:06.420 with the human rights tribunals,
00:21:08.120 both provincially and federally.
00:21:10.560 So federally, obviously,
00:21:12.020 you can control what the Canadian Human Rights Act does
00:21:14.560 and how the tribunal adjudicates.
00:21:17.440 We will have to work with provinces as well
00:21:19.680 to say, look, this is what we need to see.
00:21:22.740 And there's different ways of suggesting
00:21:25.460 and encouraging that.
00:21:26.580 But those are the main issues.
00:21:29.020 But what we don't want to see,
00:21:30.620 and I've seen some human rights tribunal cases
00:21:33.120 coming out that are basically saying,
00:21:36.200 I think in the average person's view,
00:21:38.500 discriminating against somebody
00:21:40.180 is how you treat them.
00:21:42.680 It's not your personal views on moral subjects.
00:21:46.220 And what I've seen in some human rights cases
00:21:49.260 is not that a person has denied somebody else a service
00:21:54.260 in like a discriminatory under the law type of situation.
00:21:57.720 It's that they have shared essentially moral views
00:22:02.540 on certain issues.
00:22:04.480 And sharing moral views on certain issues
00:22:07.360 cannot be discriminatory.
00:22:12.800 That's getting scary, right?
00:22:14.820 Like if we're saying, look,
00:22:16.240 your very view,
00:22:17.360 you're not advocating that that person
00:22:19.060 should not have access to the basic rights of life.
00:22:21.420 You're expressing a moral view on something
00:22:25.120 and that in and of itself is discriminatory
00:22:27.960 and amounting to hate conduct towards somebody.
00:22:30.940 So that is scary and frightening.
00:22:34.060 And that is happening primarily
00:22:35.280 within the human rights context.
00:22:37.020 And so that's where our focus needs to be.
00:22:38.780 You mentioned C-16.
00:22:40.060 This was an issue where the Human Rights Act
00:22:43.240 and the Criminal Code were amended
00:22:44.720 to include gender identity.
00:22:46.980 It didn't change the fundamental nature
00:22:49.440 of those human rights commissions.
00:22:51.100 It added an additional protected ground
00:22:53.500 to ones that are already there,
00:22:54.800 like race, sexual orientation.
00:22:56.840 Would you go after those commissions
00:23:00.460 and those provisions themselves?
00:23:02.460 Or is it just that gender identity addition
00:23:05.800 that troubles you?
00:23:07.040 Well, we're going to be looking at,
00:23:08.380 we're going to be looking at the entire act
00:23:10.460 and we're going to be focusing on looking at ways
00:23:12.820 to potentially amend it to make sure
00:23:14.740 that freedom of speech and freedom of conscience
00:23:16.460 are the framework for those acts.
00:23:19.440 The issue with the human rights tribunals
00:23:21.580 is that they are often run by people
00:23:24.440 who are very activist in nature
00:23:25.840 and they make up their own policies
00:23:27.100 and sort of how they adjudicate on these issues.
00:23:30.680 And so the issue that, you know,
00:23:32.080 Jordan Peterson and others raised
00:23:33.620 is that if you look at some of the language
00:23:36.540 of the provincial commissions
00:23:38.880 and how they adjudicate on these issues,
00:23:41.340 it was very clear that, for example,
00:23:43.560 using the wrong pronouns
00:23:45.320 could likely amount to an infringement.
00:23:47.700 So we need to make sure that nobody, of course,
00:23:51.300 wants anybody to be bullied or harassed
00:23:54.060 or any of these things.
00:23:55.620 But we also want to make sure
00:23:57.020 that we are not forcing certain views
00:24:00.300 on the members of the population.
00:24:03.000 That is something that comes
00:24:03.980 from a totalitarian background.
00:24:05.840 It is something that should be foreign
00:24:07.340 and alien to Canada.
00:24:08.880 So we need to make sure that, yes,
00:24:10.760 people are able to, you know,
00:24:12.760 interact in society
00:24:13.900 and receive the basic services.
00:24:17.460 But it doesn't necessarily mean
00:24:19.340 that we can force people against their will
00:24:21.660 to affirm people in every single way
00:24:23.940 that they want to be affirmed.
00:24:25.640 And, you know, if I want to be affirmed
00:24:28.980 in a certain way, you know,
00:24:30.320 I can negotiate that between you and I
00:24:32.160 in a relationship.
00:24:33.080 But there may be certain things
00:24:34.520 that you just do not want to affirm me in.
00:24:36.880 And that's your right.
00:24:37.740 And I don't believe the weight of the government
00:24:39.100 should be forcing your hand in that way.
00:24:41.200 So we need to make sure
00:24:42.400 that the human rights adjudication
00:24:44.760 has free speech and freedom of conscience
00:24:46.860 as a fundamental guiding principle.
00:24:49.260 And I don't believe that's the case right now.
00:24:51.280 I know one of the things the Liberals
00:24:52.700 were in the process of doing
00:24:54.000 before the election,
00:24:54.940 and we think are probably going to pick up now,
00:24:56.940 is bringing back that section
00:24:58.660 of the Canadian Human Rights Act,
00:25:00.080 Section 13,
00:25:01.000 that caused so many of these cases
00:25:03.320 where the heavy hand of government censorship
00:25:05.300 was going after people.
00:25:07.000 And I don't think I need to ask,
00:25:08.380 but I will give you the opportunity.
00:25:09.680 There's no Section 13 in your view
00:25:11.740 of the human rights laws in Canada.
00:25:13.800 That's correct.
00:25:14.760 What is it that you'd like to see
00:25:17.460 to push back against the efforts,
00:25:20.480 and it may be culturally rather than politically,
00:25:22.420 but to push back against those efforts
00:25:23.960 that are advocating that?
00:25:25.520 Because it's not just federal,
00:25:26.520 it is provincial as well.
00:25:27.620 And I will note that even when Stephen Harper
00:25:29.900 was in power and had the ability
00:25:31.700 to appoint human rights commissioners
00:25:33.880 and human rights commission tribunal members,
00:25:36.580 we still saw these cases going down
00:25:39.100 under that.
00:25:40.020 So the institutions are worse
00:25:41.940 than I think the government overseeing them.
00:25:44.560 Yes, and you're right,
00:25:45.920 it's a thorny issue.
00:25:46.840 It's not something that can be solved in a day.
00:25:48.500 But you lead from the top,
00:25:50.120 and you're right,
00:25:50.740 it's more than just passing the right laws.
00:25:52.960 It's about creating a cultural change.
00:25:55.140 And for that, we need to win,
00:25:56.840 not just once, but many times.
00:25:58.920 And we need to follow through
00:26:00.380 with appointing the right people
00:26:01.900 in the right places,
00:26:02.740 and being in dialogue with the provinces
00:26:06.240 to encourage the right sorts of changes.
00:26:09.300 And with all the conservative premiers
00:26:11.220 that we have right now,
00:26:12.380 it's a perfect time for that.
00:26:14.440 What are the issues that you think
00:26:16.660 need to be talked about more, but aren't?
00:26:19.500 Well, look, we have to,
00:26:20.400 so from a conservative perspective
00:26:21.680 or just generally in society?
00:26:23.580 I'd say it's both.
00:26:24.280 I think that if you go with the societal route,
00:26:27.220 it would be issues where you think
00:26:28.180 the conservative perspective
00:26:29.160 is the answer to them.
00:26:30.120 But I'll go dealer's choice.
00:26:31.900 You can go within the party
00:26:33.040 or outside of the party.
00:26:34.280 Right.
00:26:34.580 So, you know what?
00:26:35.240 We have a lot of issues right now
00:26:36.580 that people are concerned about.
00:26:38.700 And so, for example, I'll name some.
00:26:41.100 So we have an issue right now
00:26:43.660 where people are just disengaging from society.
00:26:46.060 So we have people, you know,
00:26:48.220 chronic drug use,
00:26:49.260 whether it be prescription or otherwise.
00:26:51.120 We have, you know,
00:26:52.600 issues with housing shortages, health care.
00:26:55.500 Now, again,
00:26:56.320 these aren't the only issues facing Canadians.
00:26:58.220 But if we cede territory to the liberals on that,
00:27:01.340 the only thing we're going to see
00:27:02.420 is wasteful socialist solutions to these.
00:27:06.500 So we need to make sure
00:27:07.460 that we are taking a look
00:27:09.240 at sort of the malaise
00:27:12.560 that we're seeing in society right now.
00:27:14.200 We're seeing people dropping out.
00:27:16.140 We're seeing, you know,
00:27:17.580 when I speak to,
00:27:19.500 I go to lots of events
00:27:20.720 where I'm speaking to people who are older,
00:27:22.700 you know, 60, 70 and older.
00:27:24.240 And I say, you know,
00:27:24.980 when you were younger,
00:27:26.900 was there this many people on,
00:27:28.900 you know, disability
00:27:29.720 and, you know,
00:27:30.660 living in their parents' basements
00:27:31.920 when they're 30
00:27:32.600 and this and that and the other.
00:27:34.460 And they're like, no,
00:27:35.520 like it just, it wasn't a thing.
00:27:36.880 Like, yeah,
00:27:37.120 maybe there was like a couple of people
00:27:38.280 here and there,
00:27:38.940 but there's something culturally right now
00:27:41.020 that is causing people to drop out.
00:27:43.140 And we need to tap in to,
00:27:45.360 you know, the Canadian,
00:27:47.260 the Canadian heart
00:27:48.820 and the Canadian soul.
00:27:49.900 And we need to say, look,
00:27:50.920 we need to get these people back on track.
00:27:52.820 We need to bring them back into the economy.
00:27:55.340 And that's going to require innovation from us.
00:27:59.100 It's going to require heart and soul.
00:28:00.840 But we need to do that
00:28:01.820 because when we let the Liberals
00:28:03.200 and the NDP try to do it,
00:28:04.720 it's more taxes,
00:28:05.960 more programs,
00:28:07.100 more government personnel.
00:28:08.500 So we need to make sure
00:28:09.440 that we're doing it
00:28:10.460 and we need to make sure
00:28:11.360 that we're the ones driving that change.
00:28:14.060 Are there any Justin Trudeau policies,
00:28:16.220 Liberal policies from 2015
00:28:17.760 that you think the Conservatives
00:28:20.100 need to make a priority of undoing,
00:28:21.900 of reversing?
00:28:22.980 Apart from the carbon tax,
00:28:24.020 I think everyone's on board with that.
00:28:25.380 Yeah, I mean,
00:28:26.480 yeah, I mean,
00:28:27.320 I mean, most of the major bills
00:28:29.080 they brought in,
00:28:29.600 I disagree with.
00:28:30.340 I mean, if you look at,
00:28:31.240 you know, the firearms legislation,
00:28:33.040 if you look in, you know,
00:28:33.960 so C71, C69, C48,
00:28:36.780 all of these bills are damaging.
00:28:39.300 I mean, the bills they're introducing,
00:28:41.120 the bills they just introduced
00:28:42.180 the last couple of weeks,
00:28:43.720 you know,
00:28:44.020 or weeks and months,
00:28:45.320 C7, C8.
00:28:46.640 These bills are,
00:28:47.880 you know, overbroad.
00:28:49.500 They're, I mean,
00:28:50.060 when you take a look at the energy,
00:28:53.060 the C69 and the C48,
00:28:55.300 they're crippling the energy industry.
00:28:57.620 They're causing the pullout
00:28:59.680 of all these foreign investments
00:29:02.260 because Canada is not seen
00:29:03.940 as a stable place to do business.
00:29:05.820 People don't know,
00:29:06.460 is my project going to get approved?
00:29:08.420 If it is approved,
00:29:09.560 when will it be approved?
00:29:10.800 And if it is actually approved
00:29:12.560 and it gets blockaded or protests,
00:29:15.720 will anybody do anything about it?
00:29:17.360 So it's putting Canada
00:29:19.060 in a terrible position
00:29:20.220 vis-a-vis investment.
00:29:22.180 Not being able to get our resources
00:29:24.120 to tidewater is terrible.
00:29:26.440 So we have to make sure
00:29:27.440 that we deal with that.
00:29:29.940 And, you know,
00:29:30.480 going after the legal gun owners,
00:29:32.220 again,
00:29:32.760 is not the way that you deal
00:29:34.340 with the gun crime that we have.
00:29:36.560 So basically,
00:29:37.840 everything they have done
00:29:39.100 has been from a,
00:29:41.040 you know,
00:29:42.540 just a backwards perspective.
00:29:45.660 And frankly,
00:29:46.960 I don't like any of it.
00:29:48.120 And I don't want to be negative on that,
00:29:50.140 but I'm just not,
00:29:51.640 where they're coming from,
00:29:52.700 no matter what they bring forward,
00:29:53.880 seems to, you know,
00:29:55.020 have elements in there
00:29:56.020 that are just downright negative.
00:29:57.900 Well, there's a glimpse
00:29:58.760 of what a conservative party
00:30:00.100 led by Derek Sloan
00:30:01.400 would be doing.
00:30:02.700 Derek, I want to thank you very much
00:30:03.860 for taking the time to chat
00:30:05.000 and explain a little bit more
00:30:06.100 about your vision.
00:30:06.700 Thank you.
00:30:07.280 And I'll just add one thing,
00:30:08.140 if I can,
00:30:08.600 in regards to the pipelines,
00:30:09.860 I will be pulling out
00:30:10.840 of the Paris Accord.
00:30:11.900 We need to make it very clear
00:30:13.580 to the investment community.
00:30:15.160 We are Canada first.
00:30:16.660 We are behind our energy sector.
00:30:19.100 And that's going to be part
00:30:20.000 of my platform as well.
00:30:21.260 Well, there you have it.
00:30:22.080 Thanks very much to Derek
00:30:23.480 and all of you for tuning in
00:30:24.560 as we talk to the conservative
00:30:25.640 leadership candidates
00:30:26.580 here on True North.
00:30:27.740 You're tuned in
00:30:28.220 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:30:29.320 Thank you, God bless,
00:30:30.200 and good day, Canada.
00:30:30.900 Thanks for listening
00:30:32.100 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:30:33.620 Support the program
00:30:34.340 by donating to True North
00:30:35.580 at www.tnc.news.
00:30:38.760 The Andrew Lawton Show.
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00:30:43.480 Thank you.
00:30:43.940 The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:30:44.480 Thank you.
00:30:45.300 Bye-bye.
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00:30:47.560 See you in the next entry from The Andrew Lawton Show.
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00:30:49.920 See you in the next entry.
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