Juno News - Conservative Leadership Series： Derek Sloan

00:00:00.000 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:08.220 Welcome to another edition of The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:00:11.400 We've been talking a lot about the Conservative leadership race

00:00:14.220 and decided it's time to hear from the candidates themselves.

00:00:17.680 We're in the midst of a series right now talking in depth about the policies,

00:00:22.160 the visions, the platforms, the ideas,

00:00:24.480 all of the things that those vying to lead the Conservative Party

00:00:27.660 are really putting forward right now.

00:00:29.760 And even some that they haven't put forward yet

00:00:31.440 that we'll try to get out of them in the course of our discussions.

00:00:34.940 Today we have Derek Sloan, the Member of Parliament for Hastings, Lennox and Addington,

00:00:39.300 in his first term and already making waves.

00:00:41.860 It is good to talk to you, Derek.

00:00:43.140 Thanks very much for taking the time to speak.

00:00:45.120 Thanks for having me today, Andrew.

00:00:46.460 So you were just elected in October

00:00:48.620 and now you're in the midst of this leadership race here.

00:00:51.500 Was this an ambition that you had had prior to running

00:00:54.400 to eventually seek the leadership and seek the premiership of the country?

00:00:58.180 Well, when I got into politics, I did it for one reason.

00:01:02.160 And that was because I felt that our fundamental freedoms in Canada are being eroded.

00:01:06.340 Freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion.

00:01:09.700 And so I wanted to get into politics to impact that in any way that I could

00:01:14.000 and to do that as best as I could.

00:01:17.280 When I saw the leadership race open, I thought about it very seriously and carefully

00:01:21.800 and even prayerfully.

00:01:23.700 And I felt that now was the time for me to move forward

00:01:26.460 and to put forward what I hope will be the benchmark of what a conservative policy should look like,

00:01:35.000 including rigid protections for those three freedoms I mentioned at the beginning.

00:01:40.300 Is this about making a point for you and having those issues discussed in the race?

00:01:45.300 Or is this something where you're genuinely in it to win it, as the saying goes?

00:01:49.480 I'm in this to win it.

00:01:50.400 There's no other reason to do this, in my view.

00:01:52.980 I am the third candidate to reach the verified level.

00:01:56.420 So I'm the third candidate to have access to the list.

00:02:00.380 We're currently sending out an email to the entire list.

00:02:03.680 Some people will have received that already.

00:02:05.860 And hopefully by the time they watch this interview,

00:02:08.140 everyone will have received their first email.

00:02:10.300 So you say that you are a conservative without apology.

00:02:13.740 That's been the slogan of the campaign.

00:02:15.720 That's been the message you've been driving home.

00:02:18.060 What does that mean to you?

00:02:19.680 Well, I think that there's different opinions, I suppose, on what conservatives should be.

00:02:25.140 But I feel that oftentimes we use the media or the mainstream media as a litmus test

00:02:30.140 of sort of what we should do and what we should say.

00:02:32.680 And a lot of conservatives feel that we're compromising on that message.

00:02:36.040 So to me, I feel that we have to make sure that our plan is a conservative plan that does not compromise

00:02:46.800 and then sell our message.

00:02:49.220 So instead of looking at the media or looking at the public right now and saying,

00:02:55.900 well, what do they want to hear?

00:02:57.180 And politics is partly about what people want to hear.

00:02:59.880 But it's also about, and I believe the conservative party needs to not be that party.

00:03:04.760 I think the liberal party, their raison d'etre is, well, what do we think people want to hear?

00:03:10.280 What can we do to stay in power?

00:03:11.480 And I think that the conservatives, obviously winning has to be very important to us.

00:03:16.100 But we also have to say, look, what are our principles?

00:03:19.220 How can we take our principles and share them in a way that is compelling and that people buy into?

00:03:26.100 And I feel that what we typically do is we focus on a narrow subset of issues like the economy

00:03:31.660 or liberal corruption, but we fail to have answers to other issues that people are concerned about.

00:03:37.380 When you talk about the economy as being a narrow issue, there are a lot of people that would say the opposite,

00:03:43.280 that the economy and putting fiscal conservatism forward is among the most broadly appealing

00:03:48.420 and ultimately most significant things that a conservative party can do.

00:03:52.200 So how do you view that as a narrow subset of conservatism?

00:03:54.940 Yeah, so even when you take a look at how we address the economy, it's in a narrow way, okay?

00:03:59.660 So obviously the economy overall is important.

00:04:02.580 But if you look at the messaging in the last election, it was basically this.

00:04:06.120 Hey, we'll save you a couple hundred bucks if you vote for us.

00:04:09.220 If you put your kids in soccer, if you, you know, we have this thing that'll save you 200 bucks.

00:04:13.260 We have this thing that'll save you 150 bucks.

00:04:15.900 It was a competition for gimmies.

00:04:18.400 Who can give the most?

00:04:19.540 Who can save you the most?

00:04:20.920 So we didn't.

00:04:22.700 We had a lot of goodies, but we didn't even have some of these sort of broad-based tax reform ideas

00:04:29.040 that a fiscal conservative would have even wanted.

00:04:32.420 I don't even know of fiscal conservatives that would have been super enthralled with our messaging in the last campaign.

00:04:39.340 Obviously, they would have preferred us to the liberals.

00:04:41.360 They would have assumed that we would, you know, treat the public purse with more respect.

00:04:46.460 But I don't think there was any fiscal conservatives that were doing somersaults or cartwheels

00:04:50.520 with the messaging in the last election.

00:04:52.920 So what are some of those, I'd say, hardline, for lack of a better term,

00:04:56.960 or bolder fiscal proposals that you would want to see?

00:04:59.780 Well, we haven't actually, so we haven't released our fiscal platform yet,

00:05:04.420 so I'll speak in broad strokes.

00:05:06.180 But it involves broad-based tax reform and simplification.

00:05:10.720 And that's a necessity.

00:05:12.460 I mean, we need to make sure that we are actually reducing the tax burden on middle-class Canadians,

00:05:19.020 and frankly, all Canadians.

00:05:20.340 But the middle class is usually unable to avoid taxation.

00:05:27.380 Unlike people in higher tax brackets have different abilities to be able to move assets

00:05:32.240 to different jurisdictions and so on.

00:05:33.900 But we need broad-based tax reform because our tax rates are not competitive with the United States.

00:05:38.920 And so to boost the entrepreneurship and the capital formation and the business formation that we want,

00:05:45.700 we do need to have broad-based tax reform.

00:05:48.780 What are the things that, because you ran as a Conservative in this election that you're saying

00:05:54.560 wasn't really adequately putting a Conservative message forward,

00:05:58.120 what were the things that you would say the Conservative Party has typically done very well?

00:06:02.860 The things that, in the current party, as it stands, you're proud to stand with?

00:06:08.120 Well, you know what?

00:06:09.060 I think we actually fought a very good election,

00:06:11.180 and we followed conventional wisdom to the T, which is, you know, avoid controversial issues,

00:06:19.100 focus on the economy, and sort of keep it simple.

00:06:22.400 You know, keep it simple, focus on the economy, and focus on liberal corruption.

00:06:26.340 So I think we ran a very disciplined campaign.

00:06:29.060 I think we ran a very hard-working campaign.

00:06:33.600 All the candidates worked very hard.

00:06:35.320 We knocked on a lot of doors.

00:06:36.320 I think we were just afraid to branch beyond that.

00:06:40.100 So we need to lead with a big vision.

00:06:43.220 And there were some things that were starting to become visionary in our plan,

00:06:47.200 like the Energy Corridor, I think, was that type of visionary idea.

00:06:50.960 But we have to lead with a vision, not lead with,

00:06:54.220 I'm going to save you $200 if you put your kids in soccer.

00:06:56.700 So you reject that conventional wisdom, though, you had said earlier.

00:07:00.300 I do. I do.

00:07:00.600 So it was a safe campaign, but you think that there is a problem with the premise that that is a positive.

00:07:06.740 Yes. Well, we did everything right.

00:07:08.260 And still lost.

00:07:09.720 Yeah. Now, here's the thing.

00:07:11.120 Prior to the election, maybe that would have been a good idea.

00:07:13.940 Hindsight's 20-20.

00:07:15.300 But I think, and I hope that we've learned from that election,

00:07:17.720 that playing it super safe and working really, really, really hard

00:07:20.820 doesn't always pay dividends in politics. 0.54

00:07:23.620 You have to buck the trend.

00:07:24.900 You have to buck the narrative.

00:07:26.220 You have to lead with the vision.

00:07:27.300 You have to be willing to talk about all issues that people are concerned with.

00:07:31.300 And you have to be, you have to have answers for everything.

00:07:33.980 That's what governing parties do.

00:07:35.980 And that's what we need to do as well.

00:07:37.640 One of the things that I've spoken about in the past,

00:07:39.640 and I know you've seen this directly,

00:07:41.340 is that the Andrew Scheer social conservative problem,

00:07:45.880 what Peter McKay calls an albatross,

00:07:47.860 what a lot of people in the conservative party derided,

00:07:50.700 was really the worst of both worlds.

00:07:52.380 Because he was backing away from a lot of the things that he had said previously

00:07:56.580 in the election,

00:07:57.920 but still getting hit for being the social conservative

00:08:00.740 and pushing forward this.

00:08:02.260 And I guess it goes two ways.

00:08:03.840 Because on one hand, you could say,

00:08:05.080 okay, if you're going to get hit with it,

00:08:06.580 if that's who you are,

00:08:07.640 you might as well be it,

00:08:08.620 and you might as well own it.

00:08:10.000 But the flip side of that is that we saw firsthand

00:08:12.720 the hostility that the media has towards people that have those beliefs.

00:08:16.860 You've been, in your own words, without apology about them.

00:08:19.620 You've received very prominent support from social conservative groups.

00:08:23.720 It's a part of who you are.

00:08:24.720 But do you think that that is something that needs to be addressed

00:08:28.620 by way of a strategy?

00:08:30.740 Or do you think it's just about saying,

00:08:32.460 this is who I am, take it or leave it?

00:08:35.180 It is about owning it.

00:08:36.300 And it's also about realizing that the media narrative

00:08:39.000 is not necessarily reality.

00:08:40.960 So, you know, I was at an event this morning,

00:08:44.120 and I was speaking with a variety of individuals

00:08:46.600 from the minority community.

00:08:49.320 And, you know, they were telling me that people in their groups

00:08:52.160 typically vote liberal, but the bulk of them by far,

00:08:55.220 and they've looked into this and they've done even surveys,

00:08:58.420 are socially conservative.

00:09:00.120 So being, at least having something to say,

00:09:02.440 I mean, you know, we need to be careful how we address all issues,

00:09:06.880 but having something to say

00:09:08.000 can actually give us an avenue to break into other groups.

00:09:11.580 And what the conservatives are always trying to do

00:09:14.000 is trying to broaden the window of support.

00:09:15.920 Because we know that almost no matter what we do,

00:09:18.420 there's a certain percentage of people

00:09:19.760 who will always vote for us.

00:09:21.100 But we say, look, we need to move

00:09:22.460 into the middle territory a little bit.

00:09:24.480 So having something to say,

00:09:26.620 and you know what, so saying that you're pro-life,

00:09:30.240 so saying, hey, these are my beliefs,

00:09:31.460 but I promise I won't do anything about it,

00:09:33.360 sends the wrong message to both groups of people.

00:09:36.460 The one side aren't going to believe you anyways,

00:09:38.740 and the people that hope that you're going to stand up

00:09:40.580 for their values are going to say,

00:09:41.800 well, that's not standing up for my values.

00:09:43.320 So I think that's what happened in this last election.

00:09:47.060 But I think that having something reasonable to say

00:09:49.360 on a variety of these issues,

00:09:51.560 you know, and to take abortion for an example,

00:09:53.980 we're the only Western country,

00:09:56.460 we're the only developed country

00:09:57.740 that has zero laws on abortion.

00:09:59.980 Most people don't even know that.

00:10:01.500 So to say, hey, I'm okay with Parliament

00:10:04.500 being able to do its work,

00:10:05.860 with people to bring forward bills

00:10:07.380 and have a discussion on this,

00:10:08.980 I think that's a message that can sell.

00:10:10.680 I think that puts us on the side of, you know,

00:10:13.040 common sense and reality

00:10:14.360 and makes the other parties

00:10:16.220 who are bending over backwards

00:10:18.100 to retain the legal vacuum that we have

00:10:21.360 will look silly.

00:10:23.260 I think that's a great example of where,

00:10:25.600 to use your words,

00:10:26.480 the media narrative and the public narrative

00:10:28.200 can really diverge

00:10:29.840 because most people don't know,

00:10:31.620 you're correct,

00:10:32.220 that there is zero limit on abortion.

00:10:34.440 Most people, I don't think,

00:10:35.940 know that there is zero limit

00:10:37.120 on sex-selective abortion, by example.

00:10:39.760 In very late trimester.

00:10:41.200 And all of that, I think, is very fair.

00:10:43.760 And if you are to bring up these issues,

00:10:46.040 it really is seen by the media differently

00:10:49.600 than I think the general public would.

00:10:51.180 But I guess it gets back to the question of,

00:10:53.180 is it worth that fight for you?

00:10:55.400 Is it worth that fight to raise those issues

00:10:57.320 when it means that no one will listen

00:10:59.140 to what you say about tax reform,

00:11:00.680 when it means no one will listen

00:11:01.860 to what you say about the energy policy

00:11:04.180 and all of these other files?

00:11:06.060 Well, here's the thing.

00:11:06.720 I don't think if Peter McKay

00:11:08.660 was running the party in this last election

00:11:10.280 that we would have won, okay?

00:11:12.700 If a pro, you know, if someone who,

00:11:14.860 now it's going to, no matter what,

00:11:17.560 no matter who wins,

00:11:18.720 they will either focus on somebody else

00:11:20.760 or they'll raise the bar in such a way

00:11:23.620 that Peter McKay or whoever can't comply.

00:11:26.020 So yes, he's saying he's pro-choice,

00:11:27.620 he's saying a few things.

00:11:28.800 They will always find something else.

00:11:30.740 They will find some other hoop

00:11:32.260 that he needs to jump through

00:11:33.900 that he either won't, or if he does,

00:11:36.460 will fracture his support in another area.

00:11:38.540 So we're never safe from the litmus test

00:11:41.040 that they put on us.

00:11:42.220 Secondly, even if he somehow manages

00:11:44.680 to pass through every litmus test,

00:11:46.180 which would probably alienate us

00:11:47.760 from a variety of people in our own base,

00:11:50.580 if he somehow turns out to be the media darling,

00:11:53.340 they'll just focus on somebody else.

00:11:55.240 So maybe Peter McKay's okay,

00:11:56.900 but they'll start talking about

00:11:58.040 the other members in caucus that are pro-life,

00:12:00.740 and there's many of them.

00:12:01.760 So it doesn't matter who you elect.

00:12:05.060 They will make that the election issue

00:12:07.300 every single time.

00:12:08.900 And, you know, Andrew Scheer did everything

00:12:10.700 in his power to avoid the issue,

00:12:12.140 and they brought it up anyways.

00:12:13.360 And people will say,

00:12:14.280 oh, he didn't have the right answers,

00:12:15.500 or he had those beliefs.

00:12:17.660 Mark my words, you pick somebody else

00:12:19.320 who has different beliefs,

00:12:20.280 they will do it anyways.

00:12:21.680 No matter what we do,

00:12:23.060 they will put those litmus tests on us.

00:12:24.880 So we need to stand up and say,

00:12:26.640 I don't care what you're going to do.

00:12:28.220 We're going to stand anyways

00:12:29.720 and go directly to the people,

00:12:31.420 and the people will see through it.

00:12:33.820 Does your conservative party,

00:12:36.160 your ideal conservative party

00:12:37.560 that you'd like to forge as leader,

00:12:39.580 take form as a pro-life party

00:12:41.920 or as a party with pro-lifers?

00:12:44.100 Well, here's the thing.

00:12:46.520 I've never said that I would whip the vote

00:12:49.280 in the direction that I want it to.

00:12:51.380 My whole point has been,

00:12:52.520 look, MPs need to be free

00:12:54.120 to represent their own values

00:12:55.900 and their own constituents

00:12:56.960 according to their conscience.

00:12:58.720 So I think the party

00:13:00.820 will probably always have

00:13:01.920 a variety of different views in it,

00:13:03.360 and I'm okay with that.

00:13:04.720 And it's the other people

00:13:06.160 that are not okay with that.

00:13:07.540 But I'm fine with that.

00:13:08.560 I don't feel the need

00:13:09.700 to force somebody else

00:13:12.520 to vote against something

00:13:13.940 that they don't want to.

00:13:15.100 That's not what a leader should do.

00:13:17.000 And we saw, I think,

00:13:18.520 that divide,

00:13:19.620 certainly in the last couple of weeks,

00:13:21.100 with Richard de Carie,

00:13:22.440 at the time a contender

00:13:24.220 for the leadership

00:13:25.180 of the Conservative Party,

00:13:26.380 disqualified by the party,

00:13:28.220 and rather than go home,

00:13:29.700 has endorsed you.

00:13:30.500 And you've actually welcomed

00:13:31.380 that endorsement.

00:13:32.200 And I'm curious

00:13:33.020 if you could explain that,

00:13:34.680 because there's certainly

00:13:35.780 a political risk there

00:13:37.120 in campaigning alongside someone

00:13:39.720 that your party has said,

00:13:41.240 we don't want anything to do with.

00:13:42.900 Well, we don't know the reasons

00:13:44.380 why he was not allowed to continue.

00:13:47.080 We can only speculate.

00:13:49.040 And Richard himself doesn't know.

00:13:51.220 He got an email that said,

00:13:52.520 sorry, you're disqualified.

00:13:54.000 So we can only speculate.

00:13:55.400 And there's different rumors abounding.

00:13:57.480 And the Globe and Mail

00:13:58.160 has written some articles on,

00:14:00.860 initially, a leak said,

00:14:04.800 oh, it was about something private.

00:14:06.760 And then they found out that,

00:14:08.120 no, in fact,

00:14:08.800 they hadn't asked him

00:14:09.700 any private questions.

00:14:11.520 So we don't really,

00:14:12.560 we don't know what the reason is

00:14:15.100 that he was disqualified,

00:14:15.960 but he was disqualified.

00:14:17.180 It could have been, for example,

00:14:19.840 maybe, maybe there were some people

00:14:22.680 who thought he would do well in Quebec

00:14:23.800 and that concerned them.

00:14:25.520 So there seems to be something going on

00:14:27.940 behind the scenes

00:14:28.680 that's not entirely fair.

00:14:30.440 And, you know, we don't,

00:14:32.180 we don't know what that is.

00:14:33.240 I don't know what that is.

00:14:34.640 But it does seem unusual to me

00:14:36.980 that he was not allowed to proceed.

00:14:38.720 And I'll tell you,

00:14:39.240 a lot of people were upset by that.

00:14:40.860 And not just people in Quebec.

00:14:42.260 There's people out West,

00:14:44.080 there's people all across the country

00:14:45.580 that were upset by that.

00:14:47.160 And the party sent the wrong message.

00:14:49.080 You really need to let the race progress.

00:14:51.600 And even if you don't want somebody to run,

00:14:53.840 you need to let the base have their say.

00:14:55.940 And I think it was a mistake what they did.

00:14:58.160 You had said on social media recently,

00:15:00.700 I can't remember the exact day,

00:15:01.860 that it's time to cancel,

00:15:03.100 cancel culture in the CPC.

00:15:05.480 So you weren't talking about general,

00:15:07.620 social and cultural cancel culture,

00:15:09.520 but a culture that you said permeates

00:15:11.280 within the Conservative Party.

00:15:12.920 And I don't know whether you were talking about

00:15:14.940 Dick Harry specifically or a broader issue,

00:15:17.360 but the point stands,

00:15:18.640 if you're not the leader of the Conservative Party

00:15:20.940 in the next few months,

00:15:22.280 could you be a part of that party still

00:15:24.440 that has what you've identified

00:15:25.860 as this toxic culture within it?

00:15:28.080 Yeah, you know,

00:15:28.540 and I should be fair to the Conservative Party as well,

00:15:30.620 because I, you know,

00:15:31.460 I hear, I speak to all sorts of people.

00:15:33.860 And there's some people that say,

00:15:34.860 well, you know,

00:15:35.260 the Conservative Party is beyond repair.

00:15:37.320 And I say, no,

00:15:38.460 the Conservative Party is not nearly,

00:15:40.420 there's not nearly as much of a cancel culture

00:15:43.120 in the party as there is in society as a whole

00:15:45.760 and some other segments.

00:15:47.320 The party is, by and large,

00:15:49.540 filled with good people.

00:15:50.820 Now, and again,

00:15:52.660 I don't believe there's some conspiracy.

00:15:54.160 I believe that there's some people

00:15:55.220 who I would disagree with

00:15:57.000 and acted unfairly

00:15:58.200 in terms of not allowing Richard to proceed.

00:16:01.380 But overall, the party is filled with good people,

00:16:04.480 although there are people in the party

00:16:06.340 that feel that those who have,

00:16:09.800 you know, socially conservative views

00:16:11.040 or other views don't belong

00:16:12.140 and need to be pushed out.

00:16:13.960 If they do that,

00:16:15.440 the party will never win

00:16:16.980 and they will never retain dominance as a government.

00:16:21.140 But having said that,

00:16:22.240 I'm very proud of the party.

00:16:23.860 And I believe that, you know,

00:16:26.000 not only can we make improvements,

00:16:27.740 we can be great

00:16:28.640 and we can be the dominant force

00:16:30.320 in the political sphere in this country.

00:16:33.140 And I encourage everybody to come on board

00:16:35.820 and do not think that our best days are behind us.

00:16:40.240 Our best days are in front of us.

00:16:41.640 I am positive of that.

00:16:42.960 With everything we've seen in the last six months,

00:16:45.140 from the election

00:16:45.780 to the post-mortem of the election

00:16:48.440 to the way Andrew Scheer was treated after the election,

00:16:52.000 do you think that the big blue tent

00:16:53.440 is still a viable idea?

00:16:55.720 This idea of red Tories, blue Tories,

00:16:58.420 libertarians, social conservatives,

00:17:00.240 fiscal conservatives,

00:17:00.980 do you think that it's still practical

00:17:03.100 that all of those people

00:17:04.600 can come together under one banner?

00:17:07.100 Yeah, and, you know, in all fairness,

00:17:08.640 maybe this is controversial.

00:17:10.780 It's not us.

00:17:12.360 It's not social conservatives

00:17:13.460 that are trying to push other people out of the party.

00:17:15.980 I don't know of an example

00:17:18.060 of a red Tories seat being targeted,

00:17:20.480 for example.

00:17:21.840 You know, we see different nomination contests

00:17:25.080 where it's very clear

00:17:25.980 that social conservatives are being targeted.

00:17:28.580 So as far as I'm concerned,

00:17:30.180 the party should and can be open to anybody.

00:17:33.480 And I have no problem with anybody

00:17:35.300 being involved in the party.

00:17:37.180 And I think that it's not us

00:17:40.220 that is driving that narrative,

00:17:41.800 it's other people.

00:17:42.880 And I have nothing to say further

00:17:46.460 other than that all conservatives

00:17:49.020 would be welcome in a party run by me,

00:17:51.440 and nobody would be targeted or penalized.

00:17:53.960 It would be free votes,

00:17:55.100 it would be free discussion

00:17:56.880 and no behind-the-scene machinations

00:18:01.220 and arm twistings and things like that.

00:18:03.220 Let's talk about the conservative party that you want.

00:18:06.340 So fast forward,

00:18:07.640 you're successful as a leadership candidate,

00:18:09.680 you are the leader of the conservatives,

00:18:11.140 you're the leader of the official opposition.

00:18:13.400 What's the top priority for you

00:18:15.120 as opposition leader?

00:18:16.360 Well, I think that we need to establish our brand

00:18:21.040 going into the next election.

00:18:22.720 So we need to start messaging on issues,

00:18:26.160 the traditional conservative issues

00:18:27.640 in a big and bold way,

00:18:28.800 and then other issues as well.

00:18:30.200 So we need to have bold answers for housing, 0.52

00:18:33.920 like affordable housing.

00:18:35.140 And I mean that in two contexts.

00:18:37.740 I mean that in the context of the rising prices

00:18:39.820 in the GTA and other areas,

00:18:41.600 and also traditional affordable housing

00:18:44.240 for low-income people.

00:18:45.840 So that's just an example of an issue

00:18:48.120 in the GTA right now and in BC that's huge.

00:18:51.440 We need to have a good conservative answer for that,

00:18:53.740 and we can.

00:18:54.580 So we need to start messaging

00:18:55.720 on some of these other issues

00:18:56.860 that are not traditionally conservative,

00:18:59.040 but as a governing party,

00:19:00.820 you need to have answers for all of these issues.

00:19:03.640 I would also be sure to put forward a framework

00:19:07.580 that is very robust from a free speech

00:19:10.680 and a freedom of conscience perspective.

00:19:13.180 And we also need to start reaching out

00:19:14.940 across the country.

00:19:15.780 So we need to start reaching out

00:19:16.800 in different constituencies,

00:19:18.880 reaching out to First Nations,

00:19:20.560 reaching out to all the groups

00:19:22.560 that make Canada what it is.

00:19:24.340 And that would be what we need

00:19:25.360 to start doing from day one.

00:19:27.200 What's your first opposition bill

00:19:28.960 or your first opposition motion?

00:19:31.380 Well, you know what?

00:19:32.240 That's a good question.

00:19:33.260 And I don't have an answer for you on that,

00:19:36.780 but I think what would need to happen

00:19:38.580 is we get together as a caucus

00:19:40.120 and we decide our priorities together.

00:19:42.200 I'm going to be putting forward

00:19:43.320 what I feel is a good platform for the party

00:19:45.820 and I hope that people buy into that.

00:19:49.060 But once you're a leader of the party,

00:19:51.700 you need to lead with caucus behind you

00:19:55.240 and beside you,

00:19:56.420 not just from the top down.

00:19:58.340 And that's my plan should I become leader.

00:20:01.360 Let's talk a little bit about the free speech aspect.

00:20:03.980 I think we touched on it within the party context,

00:20:06.460 but from the perspective of Canadian policy,

00:20:09.200 are there areas where you think the federal government

00:20:11.360 could actually do a better job on free speech?

00:20:14.500 And I know that for the benefit of listeners

00:20:16.620 that might not know and viewers,

00:20:18.020 you were involved in the Trinity Western case

00:20:20.280 where the Supreme Court very much sided

00:20:22.340 against conscience rights.

00:20:23.500 But what are some things that as leader,

00:20:25.820 you could champion?

00:20:27.000 Well, that's a good question.

00:20:27.820 So we're going to be looking

00:20:29.300 at the Canadian Human Rights Act.

00:20:30.860 I've already said that I'm going to be

00:20:32.580 repealing Bill C-16.

00:20:34.340 So that became the epicenter

00:20:37.860 of the discussion on free speech recently.

00:20:40.320 That was how Jordan Peterson rose to fame.

00:20:42.800 He was talking about the compelled speech

00:20:44.300 issued behind C-16.

00:20:46.580 So I think right now,

00:20:49.620 the nexus of sort of the free speech,

00:20:52.460 there's obviously an educational component.

00:20:54.740 Universities can be hostile towards free speech.

00:20:57.580 So there is elements of,

00:20:59.380 hey, you want federal funding?

00:21:00.660 We need to see X, Y, Z from you on this

00:21:02.780 when it comes to universities.

00:21:04.500 There's also issues right now

00:21:06.420 with the human rights tribunals,

00:21:08.120 both provincially and federally.

00:21:10.560 So federally, obviously,

00:21:12.020 you can control what the Canadian Human Rights Act does

00:21:14.560 and how the tribunal adjudicates.

00:21:17.440 We will have to work with provinces as well

00:21:19.680 to say, look, this is what we need to see.

00:21:22.740 And there's different ways of suggesting

00:21:25.460 and encouraging that.

00:21:26.580 But those are the main issues.

00:21:29.020 But what we don't want to see,

00:21:30.620 and I've seen some human rights tribunal cases

00:21:33.120 coming out that are basically saying,

00:21:36.200 I think in the average person's view,

00:21:38.500 discriminating against somebody

00:21:40.180 is how you treat them.

00:21:42.680 It's not your personal views on moral subjects.

00:21:46.220 And what I've seen in some human rights cases

00:21:49.260 is not that a person has denied somebody else a service

00:21:54.260 in like a discriminatory under the law type of situation.

00:21:57.720 It's that they have shared essentially moral views

00:22:02.540 on certain issues.

00:22:04.480 And sharing moral views on certain issues

00:22:07.360 cannot be discriminatory.

00:22:12.800 That's getting scary, right?

00:22:14.820 Like if we're saying, look,

00:22:16.240 your very view,

00:22:17.360 you're not advocating that that person

00:22:19.060 should not have access to the basic rights of life.

00:22:21.420 You're expressing a moral view on something

00:22:25.120 and that in and of itself is discriminatory

00:22:27.960 and amounting to hate conduct towards somebody.

00:22:30.940 So that is scary and frightening.

00:22:34.060 And that is happening primarily

00:22:35.280 within the human rights context.

00:22:37.020 And so that's where our focus needs to be.

00:22:38.780 You mentioned C-16.

00:22:40.060 This was an issue where the Human Rights Act

00:22:43.240 and the Criminal Code were amended

00:22:44.720 to include gender identity.

00:22:46.980 It didn't change the fundamental nature

00:22:49.440 of those human rights commissions.

00:22:51.100 It added an additional protected ground

00:22:53.500 to ones that are already there,

00:22:54.800 like race, sexual orientation.

00:22:56.840 Would you go after those commissions

00:23:00.460 and those provisions themselves?

00:23:02.460 Or is it just that gender identity addition

00:23:05.800 that troubles you?

00:23:07.040 Well, we're going to be looking at,

00:23:08.380 we're going to be looking at the entire act

00:23:10.460 and we're going to be focusing on looking at ways

00:23:12.820 to potentially amend it to make sure

00:23:14.740 that freedom of speech and freedom of conscience

00:23:16.460 are the framework for those acts.

00:23:19.440 The issue with the human rights tribunals

00:23:21.580 is that they are often run by people

00:23:24.440 who are very activist in nature

00:23:25.840 and they make up their own policies

00:23:27.100 and sort of how they adjudicate on these issues.

00:23:30.680 And so the issue that, you know,

00:23:32.080 Jordan Peterson and others raised

00:23:33.620 is that if you look at some of the language

00:23:36.540 of the provincial commissions

00:23:38.880 and how they adjudicate on these issues,

00:23:41.340 it was very clear that, for example,

00:23:43.560 using the wrong pronouns

00:23:45.320 could likely amount to an infringement.

00:23:47.700 So we need to make sure that nobody, of course,

00:23:51.300 wants anybody to be bullied or harassed

00:23:54.060 or any of these things.

00:23:55.620 But we also want to make sure

00:23:57.020 that we are not forcing certain views

00:24:00.300 on the members of the population.

00:24:03.000 That is something that comes

00:24:03.980 from a totalitarian background.

00:24:05.840 It is something that should be foreign 1.00

00:24:07.340 and alien to Canada.

00:24:08.880 So we need to make sure that, yes,

00:24:10.760 people are able to, you know,

00:24:12.760 interact in society

00:24:13.900 and receive the basic services.

00:24:17.460 But it doesn't necessarily mean

00:24:19.340 that we can force people against their will

00:24:21.660 to affirm people in every single way

00:24:23.940 that they want to be affirmed.

00:24:25.640 And, you know, if I want to be affirmed

00:24:28.980 in a certain way, you know,

00:24:30.320 I can negotiate that between you and I

00:24:32.160 in a relationship.

00:24:33.080 But there may be certain things

00:24:34.520 that you just do not want to affirm me in.

00:24:36.880 And that's your right.

00:24:37.740 And I don't believe the weight of the government

00:24:39.100 should be forcing your hand in that way.

00:24:41.200 So we need to make sure

00:24:42.400 that the human rights adjudication

00:24:44.760 has free speech and freedom of conscience

00:24:46.860 as a fundamental guiding principle.

00:24:49.260 And I don't believe that's the case right now.

00:24:51.280 I know one of the things the Liberals

00:24:52.700 were in the process of doing

00:24:54.000 before the election,

00:24:54.940 and we think are probably going to pick up now,

00:24:56.940 is bringing back that section

00:24:58.660 of the Canadian Human Rights Act,

00:25:00.080 Section 13,

00:25:01.000 that caused so many of these cases

00:25:03.320 where the heavy hand of government censorship

00:25:05.300 was going after people.

00:25:07.000 And I don't think I need to ask,

00:25:08.380 but I will give you the opportunity.

00:25:09.680 There's no Section 13 in your view 0.97

00:25:11.740 of the human rights laws in Canada.

00:25:13.800 That's correct.

00:25:14.760 What is it that you'd like to see

00:25:17.460 to push back against the efforts,

00:25:20.480 and it may be culturally rather than politically,

00:25:22.420 but to push back against those efforts

00:25:23.960 that are advocating that?

00:25:25.520 Because it's not just federal,

00:25:26.520 it is provincial as well.

00:25:27.620 And I will note that even when Stephen Harper

00:25:29.900 was in power and had the ability

00:25:31.700 to appoint human rights commissioners

00:25:33.880 and human rights commission tribunal members,

00:25:36.580 we still saw these cases going down

00:25:39.100 under that.

00:25:40.020 So the institutions are worse

00:25:41.940 than I think the government overseeing them.

00:25:44.560 Yes, and you're right,

00:25:45.920 it's a thorny issue.

00:25:46.840 It's not something that can be solved in a day.

00:25:48.500 But you lead from the top,

00:25:50.120 and you're right,

00:25:50.740 it's more than just passing the right laws.

00:25:52.960 It's about creating a cultural change.

00:25:55.140 And for that, we need to win,

00:25:56.840 not just once, but many times.

00:25:58.920 And we need to follow through

00:26:00.380 with appointing the right people

00:26:01.900 in the right places,

00:26:02.740 and being in dialogue with the provinces

00:26:06.240 to encourage the right sorts of changes.

00:26:09.300 And with all the conservative premiers

00:26:11.220 that we have right now,

00:26:12.380 it's a perfect time for that.

00:26:14.440 What are the issues that you think

00:26:16.660 need to be talked about more, but aren't?

00:26:19.500 Well, look, we have to,

00:26:20.400 so from a conservative perspective

00:26:21.680 or just generally in society?

00:26:23.580 I'd say it's both.

00:26:24.280 I think that if you go with the societal route,

00:26:27.220 it would be issues where you think

00:26:28.180 the conservative perspective

00:26:29.160 is the answer to them.

00:26:30.120 But I'll go dealer's choice.

00:26:31.900 You can go within the party

00:26:33.040 or outside of the party.

00:26:34.280 Right.

00:26:34.580 So, you know what?

00:26:35.240 We have a lot of issues right now

00:26:36.580 that people are concerned about.

00:26:38.700 And so, for example, I'll name some.

00:26:41.100 So we have an issue right now

00:26:43.660 where people are just disengaging from society.

00:26:46.060 So we have people, you know,

00:26:48.220 chronic drug use,

00:26:49.260 whether it be prescription or otherwise.

00:26:51.120 We have, you know,

00:26:52.600 issues with housing shortages, health care.

00:26:55.500 Now, again,

00:26:56.320 these aren't the only issues facing Canadians.

00:26:58.220 But if we cede territory to the liberals on that,

00:27:01.340 the only thing we're going to see

00:27:02.420 is wasteful socialist solutions to these.

00:27:06.500 So we need to make sure

00:27:07.460 that we are taking a look

00:27:09.240 at sort of the malaise

00:27:12.560 that we're seeing in society right now.

00:27:14.200 We're seeing people dropping out.

00:27:16.140 We're seeing, you know,

00:27:17.580 when I speak to,

00:27:19.500 I go to lots of events

00:27:20.720 where I'm speaking to people who are older,

00:27:22.700 you know, 60, 70 and older.

00:27:24.240 And I say, you know,

00:27:24.980 when you were younger,

00:27:26.900 was there this many people on,

00:27:28.900 you know, disability

00:27:29.720 and, you know,

00:27:30.660 living in their parents' basements

00:27:31.920 when they're 30

00:27:32.600 and this and that and the other.

00:27:34.460 And they're like, no,

00:27:35.520 like it just, it wasn't a thing.

00:27:36.880 Like, yeah,

00:27:37.120 maybe there was like a couple of people

00:27:38.280 here and there,

00:27:38.940 but there's something culturally right now

00:27:41.020 that is causing people to drop out.

00:27:43.140 And we need to tap in to,

00:27:45.360 you know, the Canadian,

00:27:47.260 the Canadian heart

00:27:48.820 and the Canadian soul.

00:27:49.900 And we need to say, look,

00:27:50.920 we need to get these people back on track.

00:27:52.820 We need to bring them back into the economy.

00:27:55.340 And that's going to require innovation from us.

00:27:59.100 It's going to require heart and soul.

00:28:00.840 But we need to do that

00:28:01.820 because when we let the Liberals

00:28:03.200 and the NDP try to do it,

00:28:04.720 it's more taxes,

00:28:05.960 more programs,

00:28:07.100 more government personnel.

00:28:08.500 So we need to make sure

00:28:09.440 that we're doing it

00:28:10.460 and we need to make sure

00:28:11.360 that we're the ones driving that change.

00:28:14.060 Are there any Justin Trudeau policies,

00:28:16.220 Liberal policies from 2015

00:28:17.760 that you think the Conservatives

00:28:20.100 need to make a priority of undoing,

00:28:21.900 of reversing?

00:28:22.980 Apart from the carbon tax,

00:28:24.020 I think everyone's on board with that.

00:28:25.380 Yeah, I mean,

00:28:26.480 yeah, I mean,

00:28:27.320 I mean, most of the major bills

00:28:29.080 they brought in,

00:28:29.600 I disagree with.

00:28:30.340 I mean, if you look at,

00:28:31.240 you know, the firearms legislation,

00:28:33.040 if you look in, you know,

00:28:33.960 so C71, C69, C48,

00:28:36.780 all of these bills are damaging.

00:28:39.300 I mean, the bills they're introducing,

00:28:41.120 the bills they just introduced

00:28:42.180 the last couple of weeks,

00:28:43.720 you know,

00:28:44.020 or weeks and months,

00:28:45.320 C7, C8.

00:28:46.640 These bills are,

00:28:47.880 you know, overbroad.

00:28:49.500 They're, I mean,

00:28:50.060 when you take a look at the energy,

00:28:53.060 the C69 and the C48,

00:28:55.300 they're crippling the energy industry.

00:28:57.620 They're causing the pullout

00:28:59.680 of all these foreign investments

00:29:02.260 because Canada is not seen

00:29:03.940 as a stable place to do business.

00:29:05.820 People don't know,

00:29:06.460 is my project going to get approved?

00:29:08.420 If it is approved,

00:29:09.560 when will it be approved?

00:29:10.800 And if it is actually approved

00:29:12.560 and it gets blockaded or protests,

00:29:15.720 will anybody do anything about it?

00:29:17.360 So it's putting Canada

00:29:19.060 in a terrible position

00:29:20.220 vis-a-vis investment.

00:29:22.180 Not being able to get our resources

00:29:24.120 to tidewater is terrible.

00:29:26.440 So we have to make sure

00:29:27.440 that we deal with that.

00:29:29.940 And, you know,

00:29:30.480 going after the legal gun owners,

00:29:32.220 again,

00:29:32.760 is not the way that you deal

00:29:34.340 with the gun crime that we have.

00:29:36.560 So basically,

00:29:37.840 everything they have done

00:29:39.100 has been from a,

00:29:41.040 you know,

00:29:42.540 just a backwards perspective.

00:29:45.660 And frankly,

00:29:46.960 I don't like any of it.

00:29:48.120 And I don't want to be negative on that,

00:29:50.140 but I'm just not,

00:29:51.640 where they're coming from,

00:29:52.700 no matter what they bring forward,

00:29:53.880 seems to, you know,

00:29:55.020 have elements in there

00:29:56.020 that are just downright negative.

00:29:57.900 Well, there's a glimpse

00:29:58.760 of what a conservative party

00:30:00.100 led by Derek Sloan

00:30:01.400 would be doing.

00:30:02.700 Derek, I want to thank you very much

00:30:03.860 for taking the time to chat

00:30:05.000 and explain a little bit more

00:30:06.100 about your vision.

00:30:06.700 Thank you.

00:30:07.280 And I'll just add one thing,

00:30:08.140 if I can,

00:30:08.600 in regards to the pipelines,

00:30:09.860 I will be pulling out

00:30:10.840 of the Paris Accord.

00:30:11.900 We need to make it very clear

00:30:13.580 to the investment community.

00:30:15.160 We are Canada first.

00:30:16.660 We are behind our energy sector.

00:30:19.100 And that's going to be part

00:30:20.000 of my platform as well.

00:30:21.260 Well, there you have it.

00:30:22.080 Thanks very much to Derek

00:30:23.480 and all of you for tuning in

00:30:24.560 as we talk to the conservative

00:30:25.640 leadership candidates

00:30:26.580 here on True North.

00:30:27.740 You're tuned in

00:30:28.220 to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:30:29.320 Thank you, God bless,

00:30:30.200 and good day, Canada.

00:30:30.900 Thanks for listening

00:30:32.100 to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:30:33.620 Support the program

00:30:34.340 by donating to True North

00:30:35.580 at www.tnc.news.

00:30:38.760 The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:30:42.460 Thank you.

00:30:43.480 Thank you.

00:30:43.940 The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:30:44.480 Thank you.

00:30:45.300 Bye-bye.

00:30:46.240 Bye-bye.

00:30:46.440 What are new yourbits?

00:30:47.560 See you in the next entry from The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:30:49.480 I'll see you on the map.

00:30:49.920 See you in the next entry.

00:30:51.000 Bye-bye.

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Juno News - March 18, 2020

Conservative Leadership Series： Derek Sloan

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