Juno News - March 18, 2020


Conservative Leadership Series: Derek Sloan


Episode Stats


Length

31 minutes

Words per minute

190.6548

Word count

5,930

Sentence count

348

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Hate speech

2

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of the Andrew Lawton Show, we speak with Conservative leadership candidate Derek Sloan. Derek Sloan is a member of Parliament for the riding of Hastings and Lennox and Addington in his first term and is already making waves in the Conservative leadership race.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:08.220 Welcome to another edition of The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:00:11.400 We've been talking a lot about the Conservative leadership race
00:00:14.220 and decided it's time to hear from the candidates themselves.
00:00:17.680 We're in the midst of a series right now talking in depth about the policies,
00:00:22.160 the visions, the platforms, the ideas,
00:00:24.480 all of the things that those vying to lead the Conservative Party
00:00:27.660 are really putting forward right now.
00:00:29.760 And even some that they haven't put forward yet
00:00:31.440 that we'll try to get out of them in the course of our discussions.
00:00:34.940 Today we have Derek Sloan, the Member of Parliament for Hastings, Lennox and Addington,
00:00:39.300 in his first term and already making waves.
00:00:41.860 It is good to talk to you, Derek.
00:00:43.140 Thanks very much for taking the time to speak.
00:00:45.120 Thanks for having me today, Andrew.
00:00:46.460 So you were just elected in October
00:00:48.620 and now you're in the midst of this leadership race here.
00:00:51.500 Was this an ambition that you had had prior to running
00:00:54.400 to eventually seek the leadership and seek the premiership of the country?
00:00:58.180 Well, when I got into politics, I did it for one reason.
00:01:02.160 And that was because I felt that our fundamental freedoms in Canada are being eroded.
00:01:06.340 Freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion.
00:01:09.700 And so I wanted to get into politics to impact that in any way that I could
00:01:14.000 and to do that as best as I could.
00:01:17.280 When I saw the leadership race open, I thought about it very seriously and carefully
00:01:21.800 and even prayerfully.
00:01:23.700 And I felt that now was the time for me to move forward
00:01:26.460 and to put forward what I hope will be the benchmark of what a conservative policy should look like,
00:01:35.000 including rigid protections for those three freedoms I mentioned at the beginning.
00:01:40.300 Is this about making a point for you and having those issues discussed in the race?
00:01:45.300 Or is this something where you're genuinely in it to win it, as the saying goes?
00:01:49.480 I'm in this to win it.
00:01:50.400 There's no other reason to do this, in my view.
00:01:52.980 I am the third candidate to reach the verified level.
00:01:56.420 So I'm the third candidate to have access to the list.
00:02:00.380 We're currently sending out an email to the entire list.
00:02:03.680 Some people will have received that already.
00:02:05.860 And hopefully by the time they watch this interview,
00:02:08.140 everyone will have received their first email.
00:02:10.300 So you say that you are a conservative without apology.
00:02:13.740 That's been the slogan of the campaign.
00:02:15.720 That's been the message you've been driving home.
00:02:18.060 What does that mean to you?
00:02:19.680 Well, I think that there's different opinions, I suppose, on what conservatives should be.
00:02:25.140 But I feel that oftentimes we use the media or the mainstream media as a litmus test
00:02:30.140 of sort of what we should do and what we should say.
00:02:32.680 And a lot of conservatives feel that we're compromising on that message.
00:02:36.040 So to me, I feel that we have to make sure that our plan is a conservative plan that does not compromise
00:02:46.800 and then sell our message.
00:02:49.220 So instead of looking at the media or looking at the public right now and saying,
00:02:55.900 well, what do they want to hear?
00:02:57.180 And politics is partly about what people want to hear.
00:02:59.880 But it's also about, and I believe the conservative party needs to not be that party.
00:03:04.760 I think the liberal party, their raison d'etre is, well, what do we think people want to hear?
00:03:10.280 What can we do to stay in power?
00:03:11.480 And I think that the conservatives, obviously winning has to be very important to us.
00:03:16.100 But we also have to say, look, what are our principles?
00:03:19.220 How can we take our principles and share them in a way that is compelling and that people buy into?
00:03:26.100 And I feel that what we typically do is we focus on a narrow subset of issues like the economy
00:03:31.660 or liberal corruption, but we fail to have answers to other issues that people are concerned about.
00:03:37.380 When you talk about the economy as being a narrow issue, there are a lot of people that would say the opposite,
00:03:43.280 that the economy and putting fiscal conservatism forward is among the most broadly appealing
00:03:48.420 and ultimately most significant things that a conservative party can do.
00:03:52.200 So how do you view that as a narrow subset of conservatism?
00:03:54.940 Yeah, so even when you take a look at how we address the economy, it's in a narrow way, okay?
00:03:59.660 So obviously the economy overall is important.
00:04:02.580 But if you look at the messaging in the last election, it was basically this.
00:04:06.120 Hey, we'll save you a couple hundred bucks if you vote for us.
00:04:09.220 If you put your kids in soccer, if you, you know, we have this thing that'll save you 200 bucks.
00:04:13.260 We have this thing that'll save you 150 bucks.
00:04:15.900 It was a competition for gimmies.
00:04:18.400 Who can give the most?
00:04:19.540 Who can save you the most?
00:04:20.920 So we didn't.
00:04:22.700 We had a lot of goodies, but we didn't even have some of these sort of broad-based tax reform ideas
00:04:29.040 that a fiscal conservative would have even wanted.
00:04:32.420 I don't even know of fiscal conservatives that would have been super enthralled with our messaging in the last campaign.
00:04:39.340 Obviously, they would have preferred us to the liberals.
00:04:41.360 They would have assumed that we would, you know, treat the public purse with more respect.
00:04:46.460 But I don't think there was any fiscal conservatives that were doing somersaults or cartwheels
00:04:50.520 with the messaging in the last election.
00:04:52.920 So what are some of those, I'd say, hardline, for lack of a better term,
00:04:56.960 or bolder fiscal proposals that you would want to see?
00:04:59.780 Well, we haven't actually, so we haven't released our fiscal platform yet,
00:05:04.420 so I'll speak in broad strokes.
00:05:06.180 But it involves broad-based tax reform and simplification.
00:05:10.720 And that's a necessity.
00:05:12.460 I mean, we need to make sure that we are actually reducing the tax burden on middle-class Canadians,
00:05:19.020 and frankly, all Canadians.
00:05:20.340 But the middle class is usually unable to avoid taxation.
00:05:27.380 Unlike people in higher tax brackets have different abilities to be able to move assets
00:05:32.240 to different jurisdictions and so on.
00:05:33.900 But we need broad-based tax reform because our tax rates are not competitive with the United States.
00:05:38.920 And so to boost the entrepreneurship and the capital formation and the business formation that we want,
00:05:45.700 we do need to have broad-based tax reform.
00:05:48.780 What are the things that, because you ran as a Conservative in this election that you're saying
00:05:54.560 wasn't really adequately putting a Conservative message forward,
00:05:58.120 what were the things that you would say the Conservative Party has typically done very well?
00:06:02.860 The things that, in the current party, as it stands, you're proud to stand with?
00:06:08.120 Well, you know what?
00:06:09.060 I think we actually fought a very good election,
00:06:11.180 and we followed conventional wisdom to the T, which is, you know, avoid controversial issues,
00:06:19.100 focus on the economy, and sort of keep it simple.
00:06:22.400 You know, keep it simple, focus on the economy, and focus on liberal corruption.
00:06:26.340 So I think we ran a very disciplined campaign.
00:06:29.060 I think we ran a very hard-working campaign.
00:06:33.600 All the candidates worked very hard.
00:06:35.320 We knocked on a lot of doors.
00:06:36.320 I think we were just afraid to branch beyond that.
00:06:40.100 So we need to lead with a big vision.
00:06:43.220 And there were some things that were starting to become visionary in our plan,
00:06:47.200 like the Energy Corridor, I think, was that type of visionary idea.
00:06:50.960 But we have to lead with a vision, not lead with,
00:06:54.220 I'm going to save you $200 if you put your kids in soccer.
00:06:56.700 So you reject that conventional wisdom, though, you had said earlier.
00:07:00.300 I do. I do.
00:07:00.600 So it was a safe campaign, but you think that there is a problem with the premise that that is a positive.
00:07:06.740 Yes. Well, we did everything right.
00:07:08.260 And still lost.
00:07:09.720 Yeah. Now, here's the thing.
00:07:11.120 Prior to the election, maybe that would have been a good idea.
00:07:13.940 Hindsight's 20-20.
00:07:15.300 But I think, and I hope that we've learned from that election,
00:07:17.720 that playing it super safe and working really, really, really hard
00:07:20.820 doesn't always pay dividends in politics. 0.54
00:07:23.620 You have to buck the trend.
00:07:24.900 You have to buck the narrative.
00:07:26.220 You have to lead with the vision.
00:07:27.300 You have to be willing to talk about all issues that people are concerned with.
00:07:31.300 And you have to be, you have to have answers for everything.
00:07:33.980 That's what governing parties do.
00:07:35.980 And that's what we need to do as well.
00:07:37.640 One of the things that I've spoken about in the past,
00:07:39.640 and I know you've seen this directly,
00:07:41.340 is that the Andrew Scheer social conservative problem,
00:07:45.880 what Peter McKay calls an albatross,
00:07:47.860 what a lot of people in the conservative party derided,
00:07:50.700 was really the worst of both worlds.
00:07:52.380 Because he was backing away from a lot of the things that he had said previously
00:07:56.580 in the election,
00:07:57.920 but still getting hit for being the social conservative
00:08:00.740 and pushing forward this.
00:08:02.260 And I guess it goes two ways.
00:08:03.840 Because on one hand, you could say,
00:08:05.080 okay, if you're going to get hit with it,
00:08:06.580 if that's who you are,
00:08:07.640 you might as well be it,
00:08:08.620 and you might as well own it.
00:08:10.000 But the flip side of that is that we saw firsthand
00:08:12.720 the hostility that the media has towards people that have those beliefs.
00:08:16.860 You've been, in your own words, without apology about them.
00:08:19.620 You've received very prominent support from social conservative groups.
00:08:23.720 It's a part of who you are.
00:08:24.720 But do you think that that is something that needs to be addressed
00:08:28.620 by way of a strategy?
00:08:30.740 Or do you think it's just about saying,
00:08:32.460 this is who I am, take it or leave it?
00:08:35.180 It is about owning it.
00:08:36.300 And it's also about realizing that the media narrative
00:08:39.000 is not necessarily reality.
00:08:40.960 So, you know, I was at an event this morning,
00:08:44.120 and I was speaking with a variety of individuals
00:08:46.600 from the minority community.
00:08:49.320 And, you know, they were telling me that people in their groups
00:08:52.160 typically vote liberal, but the bulk of them by far,
00:08:55.220 and they've looked into this and they've done even surveys,
00:08:58.420 are socially conservative.
00:09:00.120 So being, at least having something to say,
00:09:02.440 I mean, you know, we need to be careful how we address all issues,
00:09:06.880 but having something to say
00:09:08.000 can actually give us an avenue to break into other groups.
00:09:11.580 And what the conservatives are always trying to do
00:09:14.000 is trying to broaden the window of support.
00:09:15.920 Because we know that almost no matter what we do,
00:09:18.420 there's a certain percentage of people
00:09:19.760 who will always vote for us.
00:09:21.100 But we say, look, we need to move
00:09:22.460 into the middle territory a little bit.
00:09:24.480 So having something to say,
00:09:26.620 and you know what, so saying that you're pro-life,
00:09:30.240 so saying, hey, these are my beliefs,
00:09:31.460 but I promise I won't do anything about it,
00:09:33.360 sends the wrong message to both groups of people.
00:09:36.460 The one side aren't going to believe you anyways,
00:09:38.740 and the people that hope that you're going to stand up
00:09:40.580 for their values are going to say,
00:09:41.800 well, that's not standing up for my values.
00:09:43.320 So I think that's what happened in this last election.
00:09:47.060 But I think that having something reasonable to say
00:09:49.360 on a variety of these issues,
00:09:51.560 you know, and to take abortion for an example,
00:09:53.980 we're the only Western country,
00:09:56.460 we're the only developed country
00:09:57.740 that has zero laws on abortion.
00:09:59.980 Most people don't even know that.
00:10:01.500 So to say, hey, I'm okay with Parliament
00:10:04.500 being able to do its work,
00:10:05.860 with people to bring forward bills
00:10:07.380 and have a discussion on this,
00:10:08.980 I think that's a message that can sell.
00:10:10.680 I think that puts us on the side of, you know,
00:10:13.040 common sense and reality
00:10:14.360 and makes the other parties
00:10:16.220 who are bending over backwards
00:10:18.100 to retain the legal vacuum that we have
00:10:21.360 will look silly.
00:10:23.260 I think that's a great example of where,
00:10:25.600 to use your words,
00:10:26.480 the media narrative and the public narrative
00:10:28.200 can really diverge
00:10:29.840 because most people don't know,
00:10:31.620 you're correct,
00:10:32.220 that there is zero limit on abortion.
00:10:34.440 Most people, I don't think,
00:10:35.940 know that there is zero limit
00:10:37.120 on sex-selective abortion, by example.
00:10:39.760 In very late trimester.
00:10:41.200 And all of that, I think, is very fair.
00:10:43.760 And if you are to bring up these issues,
00:10:46.040 it really is seen by the media differently
00:10:49.600 than I think the general public would.
00:10:51.180 But I guess it gets back to the question of,
00:10:53.180 is it worth that fight for you?
00:10:55.400 Is it worth that fight to raise those issues
00:10:57.320 when it means that no one will listen
00:10:59.140 to what you say about tax reform,
00:11:00.680 when it means no one will listen
00:11:01.860 to what you say about the energy policy
00:11:04.180 and all of these other files?
00:11:06.060 Well, here's the thing.
00:11:06.720 I don't think if Peter McKay
00:11:08.660 was running the party in this last election
00:11:10.280 that we would have won, okay?
00:11:12.700 If a pro, you know, if someone who,
00:11:14.860 now it's going to, no matter what,
00:11:17.560 no matter who wins,
00:11:18.720 they will either focus on somebody else
00:11:20.760 or they'll raise the bar in such a way
00:11:23.620 that Peter McKay or whoever can't comply.
00:11:26.020 So yes, he's saying he's pro-choice,
00:11:27.620 he's saying a few things.
00:11:28.800 They will always find something else.
00:11:30.740 They will find some other hoop
00:11:32.260 that he needs to jump through
00:11:33.900 that he either won't, or if he does,
00:11:36.460 will fracture his support in another area.
00:11:38.540 So we're never safe from the litmus test
00:11:41.040 that they put on us.
00:11:42.220 Secondly, even if he somehow manages
00:11:44.680 to pass through every litmus test,
00:11:46.180 which would probably alienate us
00:11:47.760 from a variety of people in our own base,
00:11:50.580 if he somehow turns out to be the media darling,
00:11:53.340 they'll just focus on somebody else.
00:11:55.240 So maybe Peter McKay's okay,
00:11:56.900 but they'll start talking about
00:11:58.040 the other members in caucus that are pro-life,
00:12:00.740 and there's many of them.
00:12:01.760 So it doesn't matter who you elect.
00:12:05.060 They will make that the election issue
00:12:07.300 every single time.
00:12:08.900 And, you know, Andrew Scheer did everything
00:12:10.700 in his power to avoid the issue,
00:12:12.140 and they brought it up anyways.
00:12:13.360 And people will say,
00:12:14.280 oh, he didn't have the right answers,
00:12:15.500 or he had those beliefs.
00:12:17.660 Mark my words, you pick somebody else
00:12:19.320 who has different beliefs,
00:12:20.280 they will do it anyways.
00:12:21.680 No matter what we do,
00:12:23.060 they will put those litmus tests on us.
00:12:24.880 So we need to stand up and say,
00:12:26.640 I don't care what you're going to do.
00:12:28.220 We're going to stand anyways
00:12:29.720 and go directly to the people,
00:12:31.420 and the people will see through it.
00:12:33.820 Does your conservative party,
00:12:36.160 your ideal conservative party
00:12:37.560 that you'd like to forge as leader,
00:12:39.580 take form as a pro-life party
00:12:41.920 or as a party with pro-lifers?
00:12:44.100 Well, here's the thing.
00:12:46.520 I've never said that I would whip the vote
00:12:49.280 in the direction that I want it to.
00:12:51.380 My whole point has been,
00:12:52.520 look, MPs need to be free
00:12:54.120 to represent their own values
00:12:55.900 and their own constituents
00:12:56.960 according to their conscience.
00:12:58.720 So I think the party
00:13:00.820 will probably always have
00:13:01.920 a variety of different views in it,
00:13:03.360 and I'm okay with that.
00:13:04.720 And it's the other people
00:13:06.160 that are not okay with that.
00:13:07.540 But I'm fine with that.
00:13:08.560 I don't feel the need
00:13:09.700 to force somebody else
00:13:12.520 to vote against something
00:13:13.940 that they don't want to.
00:13:15.100 That's not what a leader should do.
00:13:17.000 And we saw, I think,
00:13:18.520 that divide,
00:13:19.620 certainly in the last couple of weeks,
00:13:21.100 with Richard de Carie,
00:13:22.440 at the time a contender
00:13:24.220 for the leadership
00:13:25.180 of the Conservative Party,
00:13:26.380 disqualified by the party,
00:13:28.220 and rather than go home,
00:13:29.700 has endorsed you.
00:13:30.500 And you've actually welcomed
00:13:31.380 that endorsement.
00:13:32.200 And I'm curious
00:13:33.020 if you could explain that,
00:13:34.680 because there's certainly
00:13:35.780 a political risk there
00:13:37.120 in campaigning alongside someone
00:13:39.720 that your party has said,
00:13:41.240 we don't want anything to do with.
00:13:42.900 Well, we don't know the reasons
00:13:44.380 why he was not allowed to continue.
00:13:47.080 We can only speculate.
00:13:49.040 And Richard himself doesn't know.
00:13:51.220 He got an email that said,
00:13:52.520 sorry, you're disqualified.
00:13:54.000 So we can only speculate.
00:13:55.400 And there's different rumors abounding.
00:13:57.480 And the Globe and Mail
00:13:58.160 has written some articles on,
00:14:00.860 initially, a leak said,
00:14:04.800 oh, it was about something private.
00:14:06.760 And then they found out that,
00:14:08.120 no, in fact,
00:14:08.800 they hadn't asked him
00:14:09.700 any private questions.
00:14:11.520 So we don't really,
00:14:12.560 we don't know what the reason is
00:14:15.100 that he was disqualified,
00:14:15.960 but he was disqualified.
00:14:17.180 It could have been, for example,
00:14:19.840 maybe, maybe there were some people
00:14:22.680 who thought he would do well in Quebec
00:14:23.800 and that concerned them.
00:14:25.520 So there seems to be something going on
00:14:27.940 behind the scenes
00:14:28.680 that's not entirely fair.
00:14:30.440 And, you know, we don't,
00:14:32.180 we don't know what that is.
00:14:33.240 I don't know what that is.
00:14:34.640 But it does seem unusual to me
00:14:36.980 that he was not allowed to proceed.
00:14:38.720 And I'll tell you,
00:14:39.240 a lot of people were upset by that.
00:14:40.860 And not just people in Quebec.
00:14:42.260 There's people out West,
00:14:44.080 there's people all across the country
00:14:45.580 that were upset by that.
00:14:47.160 And the party sent the wrong message.
00:14:49.080 You really need to let the race progress.
00:14:51.600 And even if you don't want somebody to run,
00:14:53.840 you need to let the base have their say.
00:14:55.940 And I think it was a mistake what they did.
00:14:58.160 You had said on social media recently,
00:15:00.700 I can't remember the exact day,
00:15:01.860 that it's time to cancel,
00:15:03.100 cancel culture in the CPC.
00:15:05.480 So you weren't talking about general,
00:15:07.620 social and cultural cancel culture,
00:15:09.520 but a culture that you said permeates
00:15:11.280 within the Conservative Party.
00:15:12.920 And I don't know whether you were talking about
00:15:14.940 Dick Harry specifically or a broader issue,
00:15:17.360 but the point stands,
00:15:18.640 if you're not the leader of the Conservative Party
00:15:20.940 in the next few months,
00:15:22.280 could you be a part of that party still
00:15:24.440 that has what you've identified
00:15:25.860 as this toxic culture within it?
00:15:28.080 Yeah, you know,
00:15:28.540 and I should be fair to the Conservative Party as well,
00:15:30.620 because I, you know,
00:15:31.460 I hear, I speak to all sorts of people.
00:15:33.860 And there's some people that say,
00:15:34.860 well, you know,
00:15:35.260 the Conservative Party is beyond repair.
00:15:37.320 And I say, no,
00:15:38.460 the Conservative Party is not nearly,
00:15:40.420 there's not nearly as much of a cancel culture
00:15:43.120 in the party as there is in society as a whole
00:15:45.760 and some other segments.
00:15:47.320 The party is, by and large,
00:15:49.540 filled with good people.
00:15:50.820 Now, and again,
00:15:52.660 I don't believe there's some conspiracy.
00:15:54.160 I believe that there's some people
00:15:55.220 who I would disagree with
00:15:57.000 and acted unfairly
00:15:58.200 in terms of not allowing Richard to proceed.
00:16:01.380 But overall, the party is filled with good people,
00:16:04.480 although there are people in the party
00:16:06.340 that feel that those who have,
00:16:09.800 you know, socially conservative views
00:16:11.040 or other views don't belong
00:16:12.140 and need to be pushed out.
00:16:13.960 If they do that,
00:16:15.440 the party will never win
00:16:16.980 and they will never retain dominance as a government.
00:16:21.140 But having said that,
00:16:22.240 I'm very proud of the party.
00:16:23.860 And I believe that, you know,
00:16:26.000 not only can we make improvements,
00:16:27.740 we can be great
00:16:28.640 and we can be the dominant force
00:16:30.320 in the political sphere in this country.
00:16:33.140 And I encourage everybody to come on board
00:16:35.820 and do not think that our best days are behind us.
00:16:40.240 Our best days are in front of us.
00:16:41.640 I am positive of that.
00:16:42.960 With everything we've seen in the last six months,
00:16:45.140 from the election
00:16:45.780 to the post-mortem of the election
00:16:48.440 to the way Andrew Scheer was treated after the election,
00:16:52.000 do you think that the big blue tent
00:16:53.440 is still a viable idea?
00:16:55.720 This idea of red Tories, blue Tories,
00:16:58.420 libertarians, social conservatives,
00:17:00.240 fiscal conservatives,
00:17:00.980 do you think that it's still practical
00:17:03.100 that all of those people
00:17:04.600 can come together under one banner?
00:17:07.100 Yeah, and, you know, in all fairness,
00:17:08.640 maybe this is controversial.
00:17:10.780 It's not us.
00:17:12.360 It's not social conservatives
00:17:13.460 that are trying to push other people out of the party.
00:17:15.980 I don't know of an example
00:17:18.060 of a red Tories seat being targeted,
00:17:20.480 for example.
00:17:21.840 You know, we see different nomination contests
00:17:25.080 where it's very clear
00:17:25.980 that social conservatives are being targeted.
00:17:28.580 So as far as I'm concerned,
00:17:30.180 the party should and can be open to anybody.
00:17:33.480 And I have no problem with anybody
00:17:35.300 being involved in the party.
00:17:37.180 And I think that it's not us
00:17:40.220 that is driving that narrative,
00:17:41.800 it's other people.
00:17:42.880 And I have nothing to say further
00:17:46.460 other than that all conservatives
00:17:49.020 would be welcome in a party run by me,
00:17:51.440 and nobody would be targeted or penalized.
00:17:53.960 It would be free votes,
00:17:55.100 it would be free discussion
00:17:56.880 and no behind-the-scene machinations
00:18:01.220 and arm twistings and things like that.
00:18:03.220 Let's talk about the conservative party that you want.
00:18:06.340 So fast forward,
00:18:07.640 you're successful as a leadership candidate,
00:18:09.680 you are the leader of the conservatives,
00:18:11.140 you're the leader of the official opposition.
00:18:13.400 What's the top priority for you
00:18:15.120 as opposition leader?
00:18:16.360 Well, I think that we need to establish our brand
00:18:21.040 going into the next election.
00:18:22.720 So we need to start messaging on issues,
00:18:26.160 the traditional conservative issues
00:18:27.640 in a big and bold way,
00:18:28.800 and then other issues as well.
00:18:30.200 So we need to have bold answers for housing, 0.52
00:18:33.920 like affordable housing.
00:18:35.140 And I mean that in two contexts.
00:18:37.740 I mean that in the context of the rising prices
00:18:39.820 in the GTA and other areas,
00:18:41.600 and also traditional affordable housing
00:18:44.240 for low-income people.
00:18:45.840 So that's just an example of an issue
00:18:48.120 in the GTA right now and in BC that's huge.
00:18:51.440 We need to have a good conservative answer for that,
00:18:53.740 and we can.
00:18:54.580 So we need to start messaging
00:18:55.720 on some of these other issues
00:18:56.860 that are not traditionally conservative,
00:18:59.040 but as a governing party,
00:19:00.820 you need to have answers for all of these issues.
00:19:03.640 I would also be sure to put forward a framework
00:19:07.580 that is very robust from a free speech
00:19:10.680 and a freedom of conscience perspective.
00:19:13.180 And we also need to start reaching out
00:19:14.940 across the country.
00:19:15.780 So we need to start reaching out
00:19:16.800 in different constituencies,
00:19:18.880 reaching out to First Nations,
00:19:20.560 reaching out to all the groups
00:19:22.560 that make Canada what it is.
00:19:24.340 And that would be what we need
00:19:25.360 to start doing from day one.
00:19:27.200 What's your first opposition bill
00:19:28.960 or your first opposition motion?
00:19:31.380 Well, you know what?
00:19:32.240 That's a good question.
00:19:33.260 And I don't have an answer for you on that,
00:19:36.780 but I think what would need to happen
00:19:38.580 is we get together as a caucus
00:19:40.120 and we decide our priorities together.
00:19:42.200 I'm going to be putting forward
00:19:43.320 what I feel is a good platform for the party
00:19:45.820 and I hope that people buy into that.
00:19:49.060 But once you're a leader of the party,
00:19:51.700 you need to lead with caucus behind you
00:19:55.240 and beside you,
00:19:56.420 not just from the top down.
00:19:58.340 And that's my plan should I become leader.
00:20:01.360 Let's talk a little bit about the free speech aspect.
00:20:03.980 I think we touched on it within the party context,
00:20:06.460 but from the perspective of Canadian policy,
00:20:09.200 are there areas where you think the federal government
00:20:11.360 could actually do a better job on free speech?
00:20:14.500 And I know that for the benefit of listeners
00:20:16.620 that might not know and viewers,
00:20:18.020 you were involved in the Trinity Western case
00:20:20.280 where the Supreme Court very much sided
00:20:22.340 against conscience rights.
00:20:23.500 But what are some things that as leader,
00:20:25.820 you could champion?
00:20:27.000 Well, that's a good question.
00:20:27.820 So we're going to be looking
00:20:29.300 at the Canadian Human Rights Act.
00:20:30.860 I've already said that I'm going to be
00:20:32.580 repealing Bill C-16.
00:20:34.340 So that became the epicenter
00:20:37.860 of the discussion on free speech recently.
00:20:40.320 That was how Jordan Peterson rose to fame.
00:20:42.800 He was talking about the compelled speech
00:20:44.300 issued behind C-16.
00:20:46.580 So I think right now,
00:20:49.620 the nexus of sort of the free speech,
00:20:52.460 there's obviously an educational component.
00:20:54.740 Universities can be hostile towards free speech.
00:20:57.580 So there is elements of,
00:20:59.380 hey, you want federal funding?
00:21:00.660 We need to see X, Y, Z from you on this
00:21:02.780 when it comes to universities.
00:21:04.500 There's also issues right now
00:21:06.420 with the human rights tribunals,
00:21:08.120 both provincially and federally.
00:21:10.560 So federally, obviously,
00:21:12.020 you can control what the Canadian Human Rights Act does
00:21:14.560 and how the tribunal adjudicates.
00:21:17.440 We will have to work with provinces as well
00:21:19.680 to say, look, this is what we need to see.
00:21:22.740 And there's different ways of suggesting
00:21:25.460 and encouraging that.
00:21:26.580 But those are the main issues.
00:21:29.020 But what we don't want to see,
00:21:30.620 and I've seen some human rights tribunal cases
00:21:33.120 coming out that are basically saying,
00:21:36.200 I think in the average person's view,
00:21:38.500 discriminating against somebody
00:21:40.180 is how you treat them.
00:21:42.680 It's not your personal views on moral subjects.
00:21:46.220 And what I've seen in some human rights cases
00:21:49.260 is not that a person has denied somebody else a service
00:21:54.260 in like a discriminatory under the law type of situation.
00:21:57.720 It's that they have shared essentially moral views
00:22:02.540 on certain issues.
00:22:04.480 And sharing moral views on certain issues
00:22:07.360 cannot be discriminatory.
00:22:12.800 That's getting scary, right?
00:22:14.820 Like if we're saying, look,
00:22:16.240 your very view,
00:22:17.360 you're not advocating that that person
00:22:19.060 should not have access to the basic rights of life.
00:22:21.420 You're expressing a moral view on something
00:22:25.120 and that in and of itself is discriminatory
00:22:27.960 and amounting to hate conduct towards somebody.
00:22:30.940 So that is scary and frightening.
00:22:34.060 And that is happening primarily
00:22:35.280 within the human rights context.
00:22:37.020 And so that's where our focus needs to be.
00:22:38.780 You mentioned C-16.
00:22:40.060 This was an issue where the Human Rights Act
00:22:43.240 and the Criminal Code were amended
00:22:44.720 to include gender identity.
00:22:46.980 It didn't change the fundamental nature
00:22:49.440 of those human rights commissions.
00:22:51.100 It added an additional protected ground
00:22:53.500 to ones that are already there,
00:22:54.800 like race, sexual orientation.
00:22:56.840 Would you go after those commissions
00:23:00.460 and those provisions themselves?
00:23:02.460 Or is it just that gender identity addition
00:23:05.800 that troubles you?
00:23:07.040 Well, we're going to be looking at,
00:23:08.380 we're going to be looking at the entire act
00:23:10.460 and we're going to be focusing on looking at ways
00:23:12.820 to potentially amend it to make sure
00:23:14.740 that freedom of speech and freedom of conscience
00:23:16.460 are the framework for those acts.
00:23:19.440 The issue with the human rights tribunals
00:23:21.580 is that they are often run by people
00:23:24.440 who are very activist in nature
00:23:25.840 and they make up their own policies
00:23:27.100 and sort of how they adjudicate on these issues.
00:23:30.680 And so the issue that, you know,
00:23:32.080 Jordan Peterson and others raised
00:23:33.620 is that if you look at some of the language
00:23:36.540 of the provincial commissions
00:23:38.880 and how they adjudicate on these issues,
00:23:41.340 it was very clear that, for example,
00:23:43.560 using the wrong pronouns
00:23:45.320 could likely amount to an infringement.
00:23:47.700 So we need to make sure that nobody, of course,
00:23:51.300 wants anybody to be bullied or harassed
00:23:54.060 or any of these things.
00:23:55.620 But we also want to make sure
00:23:57.020 that we are not forcing certain views
00:24:00.300 on the members of the population.
00:24:03.000 That is something that comes
00:24:03.980 from a totalitarian background.
00:24:05.840 It is something that should be foreign 1.00
00:24:07.340 and alien to Canada.
00:24:08.880 So we need to make sure that, yes,
00:24:10.760 people are able to, you know,
00:24:12.760 interact in society
00:24:13.900 and receive the basic services.
00:24:17.460 But it doesn't necessarily mean
00:24:19.340 that we can force people against their will
00:24:21.660 to affirm people in every single way
00:24:23.940 that they want to be affirmed.
00:24:25.640 And, you know, if I want to be affirmed
00:24:28.980 in a certain way, you know,
00:24:30.320 I can negotiate that between you and I
00:24:32.160 in a relationship.
00:24:33.080 But there may be certain things
00:24:34.520 that you just do not want to affirm me in.
00:24:36.880 And that's your right.
00:24:37.740 And I don't believe the weight of the government
00:24:39.100 should be forcing your hand in that way.
00:24:41.200 So we need to make sure
00:24:42.400 that the human rights adjudication
00:24:44.760 has free speech and freedom of conscience
00:24:46.860 as a fundamental guiding principle.
00:24:49.260 And I don't believe that's the case right now.
00:24:51.280 I know one of the things the Liberals
00:24:52.700 were in the process of doing
00:24:54.000 before the election,
00:24:54.940 and we think are probably going to pick up now,
00:24:56.940 is bringing back that section
00:24:58.660 of the Canadian Human Rights Act,
00:25:00.080 Section 13,
00:25:01.000 that caused so many of these cases
00:25:03.320 where the heavy hand of government censorship
00:25:05.300 was going after people.
00:25:07.000 And I don't think I need to ask,
00:25:08.380 but I will give you the opportunity.
00:25:09.680 There's no Section 13 in your view 0.97
00:25:11.740 of the human rights laws in Canada.
00:25:13.800 That's correct.
00:25:14.760 What is it that you'd like to see
00:25:17.460 to push back against the efforts,
00:25:20.480 and it may be culturally rather than politically,
00:25:22.420 but to push back against those efforts
00:25:23.960 that are advocating that?
00:25:25.520 Because it's not just federal,
00:25:26.520 it is provincial as well.
00:25:27.620 And I will note that even when Stephen Harper
00:25:29.900 was in power and had the ability
00:25:31.700 to appoint human rights commissioners
00:25:33.880 and human rights commission tribunal members,
00:25:36.580 we still saw these cases going down
00:25:39.100 under that.
00:25:40.020 So the institutions are worse
00:25:41.940 than I think the government overseeing them.
00:25:44.560 Yes, and you're right,
00:25:45.920 it's a thorny issue.
00:25:46.840 It's not something that can be solved in a day.
00:25:48.500 But you lead from the top,
00:25:50.120 and you're right,
00:25:50.740 it's more than just passing the right laws.
00:25:52.960 It's about creating a cultural change.
00:25:55.140 And for that, we need to win,
00:25:56.840 not just once, but many times.
00:25:58.920 And we need to follow through
00:26:00.380 with appointing the right people
00:26:01.900 in the right places,
00:26:02.740 and being in dialogue with the provinces
00:26:06.240 to encourage the right sorts of changes.
00:26:09.300 And with all the conservative premiers
00:26:11.220 that we have right now,
00:26:12.380 it's a perfect time for that.
00:26:14.440 What are the issues that you think
00:26:16.660 need to be talked about more, but aren't?
00:26:19.500 Well, look, we have to,
00:26:20.400 so from a conservative perspective
00:26:21.680 or just generally in society?
00:26:23.580 I'd say it's both.
00:26:24.280 I think that if you go with the societal route,
00:26:27.220 it would be issues where you think
00:26:28.180 the conservative perspective
00:26:29.160 is the answer to them.
00:26:30.120 But I'll go dealer's choice.
00:26:31.900 You can go within the party
00:26:33.040 or outside of the party.
00:26:34.280 Right.
00:26:34.580 So, you know what?
00:26:35.240 We have a lot of issues right now
00:26:36.580 that people are concerned about.
00:26:38.700 And so, for example, I'll name some.
00:26:41.100 So we have an issue right now
00:26:43.660 where people are just disengaging from society.
00:26:46.060 So we have people, you know,
00:26:48.220 chronic drug use,
00:26:49.260 whether it be prescription or otherwise.
00:26:51.120 We have, you know,
00:26:52.600 issues with housing shortages, health care.
00:26:55.500 Now, again,
00:26:56.320 these aren't the only issues facing Canadians.
00:26:58.220 But if we cede territory to the liberals on that,
00:27:01.340 the only thing we're going to see
00:27:02.420 is wasteful socialist solutions to these.
00:27:06.500 So we need to make sure
00:27:07.460 that we are taking a look
00:27:09.240 at sort of the malaise
00:27:12.560 that we're seeing in society right now.
00:27:14.200 We're seeing people dropping out.
00:27:16.140 We're seeing, you know,
00:27:17.580 when I speak to,
00:27:19.500 I go to lots of events
00:27:20.720 where I'm speaking to people who are older,
00:27:22.700 you know, 60, 70 and older.
00:27:24.240 And I say, you know,
00:27:24.980 when you were younger,
00:27:26.900 was there this many people on,
00:27:28.900 you know, disability
00:27:29.720 and, you know,
00:27:30.660 living in their parents' basements
00:27:31.920 when they're 30
00:27:32.600 and this and that and the other.
00:27:34.460 And they're like, no,
00:27:35.520 like it just, it wasn't a thing.
00:27:36.880 Like, yeah,
00:27:37.120 maybe there was like a couple of people
00:27:38.280 here and there,
00:27:38.940 but there's something culturally right now
00:27:41.020 that is causing people to drop out.
00:27:43.140 And we need to tap in to,
00:27:45.360 you know, the Canadian,
00:27:47.260 the Canadian heart
00:27:48.820 and the Canadian soul.
00:27:49.900 And we need to say, look,
00:27:50.920 we need to get these people back on track.
00:27:52.820 We need to bring them back into the economy.
00:27:55.340 And that's going to require innovation from us.
00:27:59.100 It's going to require heart and soul.
00:28:00.840 But we need to do that
00:28:01.820 because when we let the Liberals
00:28:03.200 and the NDP try to do it,
00:28:04.720 it's more taxes,
00:28:05.960 more programs,
00:28:07.100 more government personnel.
00:28:08.500 So we need to make sure
00:28:09.440 that we're doing it
00:28:10.460 and we need to make sure
00:28:11.360 that we're the ones driving that change.
00:28:14.060 Are there any Justin Trudeau policies,
00:28:16.220 Liberal policies from 2015
00:28:17.760 that you think the Conservatives
00:28:20.100 need to make a priority of undoing,
00:28:21.900 of reversing?
00:28:22.980 Apart from the carbon tax,
00:28:24.020 I think everyone's on board with that.
00:28:25.380 Yeah, I mean,
00:28:26.480 yeah, I mean,
00:28:27.320 I mean, most of the major bills
00:28:29.080 they brought in,
00:28:29.600 I disagree with.
00:28:30.340 I mean, if you look at,
00:28:31.240 you know, the firearms legislation,
00:28:33.040 if you look in, you know,
00:28:33.960 so C71, C69, C48,
00:28:36.780 all of these bills are damaging.
00:28:39.300 I mean, the bills they're introducing,
00:28:41.120 the bills they just introduced
00:28:42.180 the last couple of weeks,
00:28:43.720 you know,
00:28:44.020 or weeks and months,
00:28:45.320 C7, C8.
00:28:46.640 These bills are,
00:28:47.880 you know, overbroad.
00:28:49.500 They're, I mean,
00:28:50.060 when you take a look at the energy,
00:28:53.060 the C69 and the C48,
00:28:55.300 they're crippling the energy industry.
00:28:57.620 They're causing the pullout
00:28:59.680 of all these foreign investments
00:29:02.260 because Canada is not seen
00:29:03.940 as a stable place to do business.
00:29:05.820 People don't know,
00:29:06.460 is my project going to get approved?
00:29:08.420 If it is approved,
00:29:09.560 when will it be approved?
00:29:10.800 And if it is actually approved
00:29:12.560 and it gets blockaded or protests,
00:29:15.720 will anybody do anything about it?
00:29:17.360 So it's putting Canada
00:29:19.060 in a terrible position
00:29:20.220 vis-a-vis investment.
00:29:22.180 Not being able to get our resources
00:29:24.120 to tidewater is terrible.
00:29:26.440 So we have to make sure
00:29:27.440 that we deal with that.
00:29:29.940 And, you know,
00:29:30.480 going after the legal gun owners,
00:29:32.220 again,
00:29:32.760 is not the way that you deal
00:29:34.340 with the gun crime that we have.
00:29:36.560 So basically,
00:29:37.840 everything they have done
00:29:39.100 has been from a,
00:29:41.040 you know,
00:29:42.540 just a backwards perspective.
00:29:45.660 And frankly,
00:29:46.960 I don't like any of it.
00:29:48.120 And I don't want to be negative on that,
00:29:50.140 but I'm just not,
00:29:51.640 where they're coming from,
00:29:52.700 no matter what they bring forward,
00:29:53.880 seems to, you know,
00:29:55.020 have elements in there
00:29:56.020 that are just downright negative.
00:29:57.900 Well, there's a glimpse
00:29:58.760 of what a conservative party
00:30:00.100 led by Derek Sloan
00:30:01.400 would be doing.
00:30:02.700 Derek, I want to thank you very much
00:30:03.860 for taking the time to chat
00:30:05.000 and explain a little bit more
00:30:06.100 about your vision.
00:30:06.700 Thank you.
00:30:07.280 And I'll just add one thing,
00:30:08.140 if I can,
00:30:08.600 in regards to the pipelines,
00:30:09.860 I will be pulling out
00:30:10.840 of the Paris Accord.
00:30:11.900 We need to make it very clear
00:30:13.580 to the investment community.
00:30:15.160 We are Canada first.
00:30:16.660 We are behind our energy sector.
00:30:19.100 And that's going to be part
00:30:20.000 of my platform as well.
00:30:21.260 Well, there you have it.
00:30:22.080 Thanks very much to Derek
00:30:23.480 and all of you for tuning in
00:30:24.560 as we talk to the conservative
00:30:25.640 leadership candidates
00:30:26.580 here on True North.
00:30:27.740 You're tuned in
00:30:28.220 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:30:29.320 Thank you, God bless,
00:30:30.200 and good day, Canada.
00:30:30.900 Thanks for listening
00:30:32.100 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:30:33.620 Support the program
00:30:34.340 by donating to True North
00:30:35.580 at www.tnc.news.
00:30:38.760 The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:30:42.460 Thank you.
00:30:43.480 Thank you.
00:30:43.940 The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:30:44.480 Thank you.
00:30:45.300 Bye-bye.
00:30:46.240 Bye-bye.
00:30:46.440 What are new yourbits?
00:30:47.560 See you in the next entry from The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:30:49.480 I'll see you on the map.
00:30:49.920 See you in the next entry.
00:30:51.000 Bye-bye.
00:30:51.580 Bye-bye.
00:30:52.140 Bye-bye.
00:30:52.480 Bye-bye.
00:30:53.080 Bye-bye.
00:30:53.360 Bye-bye.
00:30:53.680 Bye-bye.
00:30:55.600 Bye-bye.
00:30:55.760 Bye-bye.
00:30:57.380 Bye-bye.
00:30:57.500 Bye-bye.
00:30:57.620 Bye-bye.
00:30:57.780 Bye-bye.
00:30:58.960 Bye-bye.
00:30:59.660 Bye-bye.
00:31:00.000 Bye-bye.
00:31:00.100 Bye-bye.
00:31:01.600 Bye-bye.
00:31:02.120 Bye-bye.
00:31:04.080 Bye-bye.