Juno News - Conservative Leadership Series： Patrick Brown

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:05.640 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:10.440 Coming up, the Conservative Leadership Series continues with a sit-down interview with Conservative Leadership Candidate Patrick Brown.

00:00:17.800 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:21.420 Hello and welcome to you. This is Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show, the Andrew Lawton Show, here on True North.

00:00:28.020 The Conservative Leadership Race continues to be underway.

00:00:32.280 It's not actually until September that the party is going to formally select its next leader.

00:00:38.660 Conservative members will be voting over the course of the summer, I think in August mainly.

00:00:43.500 The ballots, as I understand, have not yet gone out.

00:00:46.060 So the candidates are now campaigning exclusively to members.

00:00:50.440 And we've done an explainer up at TNC.News if you want to look into how the race actually works.

00:00:55.800 But they do it based on a point system in which candidates have to get the most points on a ranked ballot.

00:01:02.360 So oftentimes with six candidates or even more, if you look at like the 2017 leadership race,

00:01:07.960 the race is decided not based on who gets the most votes on the first ballot,

00:01:12.020 but how the race shakes up from there when people drop off and their votes get reallocated elsewhere.

00:01:18.100 And that's just like a lengthy PSA in case you haven't been following the structure of how the Conservative Leadership Race works.

00:01:25.720 We are doing something on the Andrew Lawton Show that we did in 2020 that was very well received.

00:01:30.140 We're doing the Conservative Leadership Series, which, if the name doesn't give it away,

00:01:34.820 is a series of interviews with Conservative Leadership candidates.

00:01:38.660 Many of them we've spoken to as they announced their candidacies initially.

00:01:43.080 This series is a bit different because we insist that we have to meet in person

00:01:46.520 and we have lengthy discussions that run the gamut,

00:01:49.420 things that they're putting forward in their platform,

00:01:51.980 things they're not necessarily addressing,

00:01:53.820 but a lot of members and supporters think they should.

00:01:56.700 And also questions about the state of the party and Canadian politics in general.

00:02:01.360 Now, we've spoken to all of the candidates in the past before we did this series,

00:02:06.000 except for Patrick Brown, who had been notoriously difficult to pin down early in the race.

00:02:11.720 He declined the invitation to appear at the Canada Strong and Free Networking Conference debate.

00:02:17.520 He declined the independent press gallery debate,

00:02:20.060 and he didn't agree to do an interview with me until after the membership cutoff,

00:02:24.380 which was at the beginning of June.

00:02:25.700 So this is my first time sitting down with Patrick Brown in the course of the race.

00:02:30.860 Nevertheless, I did sit down with Patrick Brown at a coffee shop in Brampton, Ontario,

00:02:35.700 last week for an interview, which I can bring to you now as the latest installment

00:02:39.660 in the Conservative Leadership Series.

00:02:42.580 Patrick Brown, thank you very much.

00:02:44.300 My pleasure.

00:02:45.220 So let's just start here, and it might be a bit of a self-serving question,

00:02:48.940 but you're the only candidate that I haven't spoken to in this race,

00:02:52.060 and obviously you weren't there for the first unofficial debate.

00:02:55.360 So why is it taking so long for us to sit down, first off?

00:02:59.420 Well, the first stage of the race was selling memberships,

00:03:02.320 and it's a giant country, so time was our enemy in terms of our ability to get everywhere.

00:03:08.760 I certainly enjoyed participating in the two official party debates,

00:03:13.040 but glad that we could find time to do this today now that the pace has slowed down a little bit.

00:03:19.640 You've been in provincial politics, you've been in municipal politics,

00:03:23.300 you've been in federal politics as a Conservative member of Parliament.

00:03:27.240 Why the jump now to seek the leadership of the Conservatives

00:03:31.440 and ultimately to seek the Prime Ministership of Canada?

00:03:34.840 Well, I don't believe that the Liberal NDP coalition is in the best interest of Canadians.

00:03:40.260 It is dangerous, the path that we're on.

00:03:43.660 Financial chaos in Ottawa, $1.3 trillion in debt, $2 billion a month in interest payments.

00:03:49.800 When you're born today in Canada, you owe $31,000.

00:03:56.840 We don't have energy sovereignty.

00:03:58.620 We can't even build a national energy corridor.

00:04:01.080 We've got a justice system that is broken, that protects the rights of criminals more than it does victims.

00:04:07.720 And I'm tired of seeing the Conservative Party lose.

00:04:11.120 And as a big city mayor, I know how to win in the areas where the Conservative Party has been unable to win.

00:04:18.080 We can win the popular vote, but if you don't win the seat count, you're never going to be able to form government.

00:04:23.660 And fundamentally, I'm running so that we can build a united Conservative Party

00:04:28.480 that can defeat the Liberals and get Canada back on track.

00:04:30.900 We hear, I mean, this is the oldest line that we hear in leadership races about,

00:04:36.320 I'm going to deliver in the GTA, I'm going to deliver in Quebec.

00:04:39.520 And oftentimes, it doesn't materialize, because we did hear that from Andrew Scheer.

00:04:42.820 We did hear that from Aaron O'Toole.

00:04:44.800 And obviously, you're in a position where you are the mayor of Brampton in the GTA.

00:04:48.700 But what is it specifically that would deliver the Conservatives that victory that you're promising

00:04:54.160 in these areas where the party has significantly underperformed in the last two elections,

00:04:58.800 well, the last three elections?

00:04:59.740 Well, a lot of people can make promises that they're going to deliver in an area,

00:05:03.940 or hope to deliver in an area, or hope to get elected in an area.

00:05:07.140 I actually do.

00:05:08.700 I'm a living example of someone who gets elected in an area of the country

00:05:13.380 where the Conservatives got blown out.

00:05:16.000 And so it's a very different example with my candidacy.

00:05:20.640 I won provincial by-elections in places the Conservative Party had no business winning,

00:05:25.120 from Scarborough River to Sault Ste. Marie.

00:05:27.780 I've won municipally in Brampton that has five Liberal seats.

00:05:31.020 And so this is not aspirational.

00:05:34.580 I have shown the Federal Party how we can win in areas like this.

00:05:39.780 Is it about strategy or is it about policy?

00:05:41.860 It's about being able to communicate that the values of voters who have not traditionally supported the Conservative Party

00:05:52.880 are actually Conservative values, that their values are our values.

00:05:57.580 And a great example would be religious freedom.

00:06:00.200 I view religious freedom as a Conservative value, frankly a Canadian value.

00:06:06.160 And I look in recent years and we have failed to communicate that.

00:06:10.700 I look at the example of Bill 21 in Quebec where the Conservative Party in the last election sat on the sidelines.

00:06:17.240 Prominent Conservatives that refused to take a position or worse said they wouldn't challenge a bill that was egregious and wrong.

00:06:26.240 The notion that you can't wear an article of faith and be a government worker is inconsistent with the Charter-Protected Rights of Religious Freedom.

00:06:34.480 There is an example of a Conservative value.

00:06:37.100 And it was Stephen Harper who created the Office of the Ambassador of Religious Freedom

00:06:41.500 where we went around the world to lecture on the importance of religious freedom

00:06:44.900 where we talked about persecuted religious communities around the world,

00:06:48.640 whether it's Yazidis in Iraq, whether it is Asmallis in Afghanistan, whether it's the Ahmadiyya community.

00:06:54.980 There's examples of communities where we've really been the party to say Canada is a land of freedom.

00:06:59.640 And so I believe there is an incredible opportunity for the Conservative Party

00:07:04.800 if we can not only be the party of fiscal discipline and energy, sovereignty, law and order,

00:07:11.240 but to be the party that doubles down on religious freedom.

00:07:15.120 How do you square that message, which is appealing to people of faith,

00:07:19.000 with comments that I still hear complaints about from social conservatives from your book,

00:07:23.180 calling them dinosaurs and flip-flopping, on your initial opposition to the Kathleen Wynne Sex Ed curriculum?

00:07:30.260 These things that still years later are very sore for social conservatives

00:07:34.080 who form a significant chunk of the conservative movement in this country.

00:07:38.680 Well, let me say first of all, I think all perspectives are important in the conservative family.

00:07:44.480 And, you know, I regret the choice of words to describe that segment of the conservative family.

00:07:53.500 I would note that I think there's a lot of really good ideas that comes from social conservatives.

00:07:59.320 And although I've been clear...

00:08:00.560 Like what? What ideas?

00:08:01.500 Yeah, so let me say, starting point, I've been clear that I'm not going to revisit the abortion debate.

00:08:10.100 But having said that, I look at making adoptions easier that Dr. Leza Lewis has talked about.

00:08:16.240 Full support for that.

00:08:17.640 In my provincial platform in Ontario, I included conscience rights for physicians.

00:08:23.740 And so the conservative party is a big tent party.

00:08:28.360 And I believe there needs to be a place for all types of conservatives in our conservative family.

00:08:34.720 One of the challenges we've seen in this race, I'll talk about the convoy as one example.

00:08:40.320 Jean Charest, one of your competitors, was booed for calling it an illegal blockade.

00:08:44.340 You've had other of your competitors that have been jumping over each other,

00:08:47.140 talking about who was a bigger supporter of it.

00:08:49.320 This has been a fairly divisive issue in Canadian politics and in conservative politics.

00:08:54.820 And what's your view, not only of that chapter in Canada,

00:08:58.040 but also of how you keep these two very different visions that exist within the party

00:09:02.660 from devolving into very bitter attacks?

00:09:07.180 Well, first of all, I want to say congratulations on your book.

00:09:10.200 Thank you.

00:09:10.480 I'm looking forward to reading that.

00:09:12.420 Thank you.

00:09:14.040 I know leadership campaigns are spirited.

00:09:18.140 They're certainly not for the faint of heart.

00:09:19.680 And, you know, when I look at the convoy topic, let's start off by what we agree on.

00:09:25.440 And what we agree on is it was long overdue to get rid of mandates.

00:09:32.000 I believe that the spirit of the convoy was to end mandates at a point in the country where it didn't make sense.

00:09:40.580 The science and the data had clearly evolved.

00:09:43.220 The severity of the pandemic had extremely diminished.

00:09:47.520 And it really felt like Justin Trudeau was holding on to mandates really for political purposes.

00:09:53.620 He had taken a position in the federal election that was about dividing Canadians at a time when many Canadians were still worried.

00:10:00.520 And so the essence of the convoy movement about ending mandates was correct.

00:10:08.260 Where I think there was errors was, you know, I look what happened at the Ambassador Bridge.

00:10:15.720 And as conservatives, we can never support blockades.

00:10:20.520 Because if we allow blockades to be permitted in one instance, how do we go about in saying that a blockade on a pipeline is wrong?

00:10:29.780 Well, I think we need to be consistent.

00:10:31.240 We support the rule of law.

00:10:33.640 And I know Premier Ford took some criticism for the way that he dismantled the protest at the Ambassador Bridge.

00:10:42.000 But I'm glad he did because, you know, I look at our Fiat Chrysler plant in Brampton and economic repercussions from that bridge being closed was devastating.

00:10:51.160 And it could cost us jobs.

00:10:53.400 Having said that, I looked at the way Justin Trudeau handled the protest in Ottawa, invoking the Emergencies Act.

00:10:59.960 There was no basis for that.

00:11:01.340 It was an overreach and was wrong.

00:11:05.420 Well, we've had some movement, of course, in lifting the vaccine mandate for air and rail travel in this country.

00:11:11.900 But still, you've got restrictions like the mask mandate in place, the vaccination requirement for tourists coming into this country.

00:11:19.220 And the one that I think a lot of people are very frustrated about is the vaccine mandate for federal civil servants.

00:11:24.280 Would all of those, or if not, which of those would be gone if you were Prime Minister right now?

00:11:28.540 I would end all the mandates.

00:11:31.180 Public servants back to work?

00:11:32.540 Back to work.

00:11:33.080 And look what's happened at the airport.

00:11:36.080 You know, I know they're doing a partial change of the rules.

00:11:41.220 But we still have, and I get regular briefings from Pearson Airport.

00:11:44.000 Obviously, Brampton is one of the key municipalities affected by Pearson.

00:11:48.840 We have 1,000 staff right now that are off because of their vaccination status.

00:11:53.360 1,000 staff let go at a time we have acute staffing shortages at Pearson.

00:12:01.020 That is unconscionable what's happening.

00:12:04.020 And we're hosting the largest tech conference, one of the largest tech conferences in the world.

00:12:08.580 And people coming in, ready to make major investment in the GTA, and they see chaos in our airports.

00:12:14.700 This is embarrassing for our country, and frankly, it's going to damage the reputation of the GTA.

00:12:21.660 Listen, I'll tell you about the approach I took in Brampton.

00:12:24.580 In Brampton, you know, I took a different approach than most big cities.

00:12:30.700 Yes, I encouraged everyone to get vaccinated.

00:12:32.620 I got vaccinated, and I got boosted.

00:12:35.840 A lot of cities told employees that if they didn't get vaccinated, they'd be fired.

00:12:40.220 That was quite common amongst big cities.

00:12:42.780 I sat down with my labor unions in Brampton, the firefighters, the police, the transit union, the QP.

00:12:51.260 And I said, listen, there is a movement across the country to have a vaccine mandate where if you don't get vaccinated, you get fired.

00:12:59.340 And I said, I want to work collaboratively with you.

00:13:02.960 Why don't we try a different approach?

00:13:04.920 If I get you the information from public health and from our infectious disease doctors, will you share it with your membership on the basis that no one gets fired?

00:13:13.780 And we took that position.

00:13:15.760 No one got fired.

00:13:16.640 One of the few big cities in the country where not a single employee got fired based on their vaccination status.

00:13:21.560 There was actually employees in other cities that got fired because of their vaccination status.

00:13:25.680 They got hired in Brampton during the pandemic.

00:13:29.340 And I'm proud of the position we took.

00:13:32.040 And you know what's really interesting?

00:13:33.860 We actually had a higher vaccination rate than some of the cities that fired people based on not getting vaccinated.

00:13:39.900 So I'm a big believer on the collaborative approach rather than the baseball bat approach.

00:13:45.240 And unfortunately, I think quite often during this pandemic, it was the baseball bat approach that was used.

00:13:52.840 And I'm a big believer in transparency and providing as much information as possible.

00:13:59.080 And I think if you're transparent with the public, you get better buy-in.

00:14:02.600 It's when you're not transparent that I think you lose goodwill.

00:14:06.000 And one issue that I'll give you an example that we spoke about on your show before the leadership was the hospital data.

00:14:11.500 You know, I challenged the hospital data because I heard about 50% of the COVID cases being incidental.

00:14:18.980 And, you know, that gets out.

00:14:20.180 That's the with COVID versus the of COVID.

00:14:21.920 Exactly.

00:14:22.400 You go into the hospital, you break your arm, and you find out you had COVID.

00:14:26.600 You're not in the hospital being treated for COVID.

00:14:28.420 But governments were using misleading COVID data to justify lockdowns.

00:14:33.980 And you'll remember, it was the call from Brampton that I started that led to the retooling of how COVID data was reported in the country.

00:14:42.260 And so I think the reason that there was such skepticism of government, distrust of government, was examples like that,

00:14:50.560 where misinformation was intentionally pushed to the public to justify decisions that were unpopular.

00:14:56.420 So, if we look then at the pandemic track record of the liberals, you're saying that it's long past time that these mandates should have been gone.

00:15:05.000 Do you think there was ever justification for vaccine mandates at the federal level?

00:15:10.480 So, you know, I'm not a big fan of mandates.

00:15:14.440 I think it is not the collaborative approach.

00:15:19.380 And I think it could have been done differently.

00:15:21.260 I think you could have encouraged vaccines.

00:15:26.600 You could have encouraged opportunities to hear from infectious disease doctors and public health.

00:15:33.020 You know, I just don't believe firing someone based on a personal health choice is ever appropriate.

00:15:39.440 I think it breached legal rights and collective agreements.

00:15:44.200 We have right now a campaign that's still in its infancy in some ways.

00:15:48.980 The membership cutoff has just ended a couple of weeks ago.

00:15:52.220 But your website doesn't have a platform.

00:15:54.140 You don't have policy.

00:15:54.920 I know you put out a couple of press releases over the course of this race that have taken positions on various things.

00:16:00.620 But if a voter is looking at you, what is it specifically that you're offering?

00:16:04.380 Because it's one thing to go around the country and sell out memberships, which is important in a leadership race.

00:16:08.340 But what's the actual vision that you're offering to Conservatives and to the country?

00:16:12.840 Well, I'm going around the country.

00:16:14.160 I think I've been to every province and two territories giving that speech about what I aspire to do for Canada.

00:16:22.280 How I aspire to lead the Conservative Party.

00:16:25.920 My launch speech that speaks to that is on my website.

00:16:30.180 It's why I was pleased to participate in both official party debates where I answered every question that they asked of us on every policy topic.

00:16:40.620 It's why I'm pushing for a third official debate because I enjoy those opportunities to be accountable for where we stand on the issues.

00:16:48.740 In terms of the platform that I'd like to run in the next election, I'm going to share a lot of ideas of the type of policy that I'd like to run on over the course of this second stage of the leadership race.

00:17:01.020 You'll hear lots of different policy suggestions come from our campaign.

00:17:04.860 But I would say it's important that when we build our platform for the next election that we do as a party and that we have a policy consultation process that is in-depth.

00:17:17.320 And we make sure that every quarter of the party, every corner of the country is involved in that process.

00:17:23.760 I know when you were the leader of the Ontario PCs, you had a very member-driven approach to your platform that ultimately you unveiled.

00:17:31.360 And I know at the federal level, one area where you have taken a position that diverges from the party policy is on moving the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.

00:17:40.480 Now, I'll let you speak to that issue specifically, but I was hoping you could also touch on where are the things where you think the members are in the driver's seat?

00:17:48.320 And where are the things that you as the leader will come in and say, this is my position and it's important that we get behind this as a party?

00:17:54.280 Well, I would say in terms of where I think anything that goes against the Charter of Rights, fundamental rights of Canadians, would be a line that I couldn't go past.

00:18:10.300 So if there was a party membership vote that said we're going to infringe religious freedom or language rights, that's not something that I can support.

00:18:19.780 I believe in our Charter.

00:18:20.780 I believe in the rule of law in our country.

00:18:23.100 Do you think the party would vote for some?

00:18:24.900 No, I don't.

00:18:25.540 I don't.

00:18:25.880 It's just illustrative.

00:18:26.740 I wanted to make that clear.

00:18:27.380 You wanted an example.

00:18:28.200 Absolutely.

00:18:28.720 No, no.

00:18:28.740 I have faith in our party membership.

00:18:31.820 In terms of moving the embassy, you know, I remember when Stephen Harper was our prime minister, he was clear.

00:18:38.920 He was not moving the embassy.

00:18:40.660 And I think what Stephen Harper, Prime Minister Stephen Harper, understood was, at the end of the day, Canada wants to see a successful peace process.

00:18:49.340 And anything that takes us further apart, further away from the peace process, is not helpful.

00:18:56.220 And, you know, I continue to take on the same position that the conservative government did when they were in office, that moving the embassy would not be helpful at this time.

00:19:09.300 You have talked about the idea of the party being unified.

00:19:14.060 I also make sure to get all the emails from all the campaigns.

00:19:16.680 And I've seen, I don't have an exact number, but a lot of references to Pierre Polyev in your emails.

00:19:21.520 And, I mean, obviously, contrast is important.

00:19:23.380 Campaigns are going to be running against each other.

00:19:25.040 You've also said that you wouldn't run as a conservative candidate if Pierre Polyev were the leader.

00:19:30.360 Why go negative this early?

00:19:33.480 And why him?

00:19:34.480 Why is Pierre Polyev as a figure so objectionable to you that you would devote so much of the oxygen of your campaign towards him?

00:19:41.380 I think Pierre Polyev's campaign set the tone.

00:19:44.140 You know, when I launched my campaign, the first thing they did was launch an attack act.

00:19:50.100 They've done that with not just myself, but other candidates in this race.

00:19:54.440 And I think that's the tone that they set.

00:19:57.380 You know, I grew up playing hockey.

00:19:58.740 And if you get body checked, you're going to body check back.

00:20:01.240 I would prefer more of a collegial approach.

00:20:04.820 But, you know, our approach is that, you know, if they're going to attack and malign, it's not going to go unanswered.

00:20:16.180 You've got a filing deadline coming up for municipal election if you wanted to run for re-election in Brampton.

00:20:21.940 And that deadline, as I understand, is before when the Conservatives will elect their leader.

00:20:26.920 So how do you navigate that?

00:20:28.380 Because obviously it's no guarantee that you'll be the leader.

00:20:30.720 Do you seek re-election as mayor of Brampton in the meantime?

00:20:33.420 Well, listen, I've been clear.

00:20:35.820 My only goal is to run for the Conservatives' leadership.

00:20:38.800 It's not something I'm entertaining at this point, returning to municipal politics.

00:20:44.860 What I did say was, you know, I want to see the Conservative Party successful in the next election.

00:20:50.660 And I gave an honest assessment.

00:20:51.960 You know, I think if you look at the campaigns that have a chance of success in this leadership,

00:20:57.420 and I look at Lesley Lewis or Jean Charest and Pierre Polyev, you know, I know the work that Dr. Lesley Lewis has done in the GTA.

00:21:05.640 I was a volunteer with her in Scarborough for a long period of time.

00:21:10.120 And I think she understands the heavy lifting that's required to win in suburban Canada.

00:21:14.480 And I said I would run under her leadership if I wasn't successful.

00:21:19.440 You know, I believe Jean Charest has had a history of winning in suburban Canada.

00:21:23.080 He certainly did in Montreal.

00:21:26.100 And I said I would run if he was successful.

00:21:29.460 I gave an honest answer.

00:21:31.220 Maybe people aren't used to honest answers when you have interviews.

00:21:35.220 I was asked on a national TV program if I would run if Pierre Polyev was successful.

00:21:40.800 And I gave an honest assessment that I saw what happened in the last two elections.

00:21:45.980 I have the same old, same old approach.

00:21:48.940 Then I'm not interested in being part of a losing campaign, even though, you know, I know I have a high standing here as mayor of Brampton.

00:21:57.460 I just don't think electoral success is possible under more of the same.

00:22:03.700 We really need to have a Conservative Party that understands we need to bring all Canadians together, particularly in a multi-faith, multicultural setting.

00:22:14.840 One of the big challenges the Conservative Party has always gone through is this pull between two sides.

00:22:19.780 One that says we need to be more moderate to win, and the other side that says we need to go back to our roots.

00:22:24.440 And you touched on this a little bit earlier by talking about a lot of communities where they do have Conservative values that are shared by Canadians.

00:22:30.700 But ultimately, when you're looking at the country that you want to see and the Conservative Party that you want to see,

00:22:37.280 you're still of the mind that there is a future for the Conservative Party in this country.

00:22:41.820 But I get the sense you don't think in its current form that's the case.

00:22:45.360 You know what? I think we need to go back to the best moments in the Conservative Party.

00:22:50.560 And the best moments in the Conservative Party are when we stand up for every Canadian.

00:22:54.140 And if one group of Canadians is attacked, we're all attacked.

00:22:58.420 So let me point to moments in Conservative Party history I think reflected that.

00:23:03.400 You look at John Diefenbaker writing the Bill of Rights, clearly understanding that he wanted to protect the equality of all Canadians.

00:23:11.880 You look at Brian Rudy fighting apartheid in South Africa, clearly showing that a Conservative Party had no tolerance for racism of any kind.

00:23:20.260 You know, I look at how Stephen Harper did the apology with Senator Victor Ove for the Chinese head tax,

00:23:30.020 the recognition of the errors of residential schools and the mistreatment of Indigenous Canadians.

00:23:35.280 Those are examples of where you've seen great Conservative leaders stand up for all aspects of the Canadian family.

00:23:41.880 And so what I'd like to see, to make sure we're successful in the multicultural mosaic that is suburban Canada,

00:23:49.560 a very clear position that we have no time, no space, no oxygen for hate of any kind,

00:23:54.920 whether it's Islamophobia, anti-Semitism, racism, whether it's Hindophobia, Sikhophobia, anti-Asian hate.

00:24:04.240 I want to build a Conservative Party that really sends a clear message that every Canadian is welcome in our family.

00:24:11.200 The government uses those, the Liberal government uses those phobias you've cited as justification to go after, 0.91

00:24:18.980 frankly, to go after free speech.

00:24:20.680 I mean, we've seen this in the bill that's been put forward in the last legislature, C-36,

00:24:24.920 on restoring Section 13 of the Canadian Human Rights Act, which the former Conservative government repealed.

00:24:31.200 Do you feel that that's an accurate representation, that the Liberals are going after free speech?

00:24:36.120 So I think it's important not to fall for Liberal traps.

00:24:40.540 And the Liberals want to be able to paint a Conservative Party that is intolerant and non-inclusive.

00:24:46.440 And so it's very important for Conservatives not to fall for those traps,

00:24:51.980 for the Conservative Party to very clearly outline, it doesn't matter who you love, where you're born,

00:24:56.580 the colour of your skin, what God you worship, everyone is welcome in our party,

00:24:59.800 and we're going to rally behind every Canadian to have success.

00:25:04.180 And so, absolutely, I support free speech.

00:25:07.360 And I don't support any diminishment of free speech.

00:25:09.840 I think the Liberal Party has had a track record of trying to curtail free speech.

00:25:14.240 We see that with what they're trying to do with the internet right now.

00:25:16.780 But I would say the one caveat on free speech is it doesn't include inciting hate against other Canadians.

00:25:26.520 So let me just be very specific then.

00:25:28.980 Section 13, which the former Conservative government, when you were a member of Parliament, abolished,

00:25:34.640 the Liberals want to bring that back.

00:25:36.000 Would you vote for or against that?

00:25:37.660 So I support free speech.

00:25:40.240 And so my position remains the same and the position that we took in the Conservative Party

00:25:45.340 that, you know, we don't support the diminishment of free speech that we've seen under Justin Trudor.

00:25:53.160 So moving forward, how do you, if you're successful as a Conservative leader,

00:25:57.940 work against the current that typically is working against Conservatives?

00:26:02.480 You know, we've seen the media smears.

00:26:04.060 You've seen this firsthand and you've talked about this.

00:26:06.060 How do you push back against that and get the Conservatives to break out of what tends to be the story of Conservative campaigns?

00:26:13.100 So I don't think some of those attacks would be successful against my candidacy

00:26:16.620 because on a lot of these Liberal traps, I've been on the right side of history.

00:26:24.380 And I'll give you an example.

00:26:26.860 You look at Doug Ford's success in the recent provincial election across the GTA.

00:26:34.800 You know, he made it very clear on a lot of these Liberal traps that the Conservative Party would stand for equality.

00:26:41.680 So let me give you one example.

00:26:43.460 Islamophobia.

00:26:44.640 Islamophobia.

00:26:45.500 You know, my position is clear.

00:26:47.420 Hate against any faith is wrong.

00:26:48.880 Hate against the Jewish faith. 0.98

00:26:50.000 Hate against the Muslim faith. 0.99

00:26:51.000 Hate against the Christian faith. 0.89

00:26:52.520 Hate against any faith is egregious.

00:26:55.060 And, you know, in the provincial legislature, when the Liberals wanted to trap the Conservatives on a vote to condemn hate against Muslims,

00:27:03.060 the provincial Conservatives didn't fall for it.

00:27:05.160 But federally, they fell for it.

00:27:07.100 And it became an issue that really rallied support against the federal Conservative Party.

00:27:12.000 We need to be smarter as a Conservative family.

00:27:14.620 Do not fall again and again for these Liberal traps.

00:27:18.240 We're the party of religious freedom.

00:27:20.060 We're the party that will stick up for every Canadian.

00:27:21.800 I would just ask you in closing then, Patrick, because when you're talking about those Liberal traps,

00:27:27.540 what the Liberals are doing is trapping the Conservatives both ways.

00:27:30.220 If you vote for it, you're saying that the Liberals are the ones that are setting the tone on this.

00:27:34.100 And if you vote for this, you're allowing them to be branded.

00:27:37.140 So is the correct response not to expose these traps and say we're not going to play that game?

00:27:41.660 I think the correct approach is to call out hate wherever you see it.

00:27:46.540 And so when I see examples of hate and bigotry and intolerance, I call it out.

00:27:52.000 I don't need to be told to call it out by the Liberal Party.

00:27:54.960 It's my natural inclination.

00:27:56.740 So let me give you an example.

00:27:57.940 You know, recently I read an article that was derogatory towards Senator Victor Owe,

00:28:04.760 who helped write the Chinese head tax apology with Stephen Harper,

00:28:09.320 a citizen of the year in Mississauga, highly recommended by Mayor Hazel McCallion.

00:28:14.220 And just because he's from Singapore, but because his grandparents were from China,

00:28:19.820 there was some anti-Chinese bigotry directed to him.

00:28:23.060 And so my natural inclination is not to wait and allow that attack to stick.

00:28:31.920 I wrote an opinion piece in the paper defending, attacking anti-Asian hate,

00:28:38.080 like I would condemn any form of hate.

00:28:39.980 And if there is a church being burned down, if there's a synagogue being attacked,

00:28:43.500 if there is an attack on a masjid, I will stand up against any hate in any form,

00:28:48.460 because I want to create a Canada where everyone is able to practice their faith,

00:28:53.440 free from fear and intimidation.

00:28:55.620 And I think it's important to have zero tolerance.

00:28:58.580 I want the Conservative Party to lead on these issues, not be a follower.

00:29:02.260 Patrick Brown, thank you very much.

00:29:03.680 My pleasure.

00:29:04.060 That was my interview with Brampton Mayor and Conservative Leadership Candidate Patrick Brown

00:29:09.260 as part of the Conservative Leadership Series here on The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:29:13.540 That is the second part of the series.

00:29:15.800 Last week, we kicked it off with my interview with Jean Charest.

00:29:18.840 And in the next installment, we'll have my conversation with Roman Babber.

00:29:23.060 But we'll get through all six candidates in the next few weeks.

00:29:25.980 So thank you very much to those of you who are tuning in.

00:29:28.160 If you want to support this series, please do head on over to donate.tnc.news

00:29:32.840 and chip in a few dollars if you can to cover the video costs, the travel costs and whatnot,

00:29:37.940 and make sure that we can keep bringing this to you to help you be better informed

00:29:41.420 about the candidates seeking your vote, whether you're a Conservative member or not.

00:29:45.800 Because remember, whoever wins is going to be seeking your vote in a general election

00:29:50.040 in a couple of years as well.

00:29:51.520 So that's the pitch.

00:29:52.800 We will see you next time.

00:29:54.160 This is Canada's most irreverent talk show here on True North.

00:29:57.060 Thank you, God bless, and good day to you all.

00:29:59.400 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:30:01.620 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - June 26, 2022

Conservative Leadership Series： Patrick Brown

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