Juno News - Dangling Christmas

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.740 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:13.020 COVID cases going up despite lockdowns, so what do the experts want?

00:00:17.040 More lockdowns.

00:00:18.440 Also, cancelling Christmas, the politics of masks, and the erasure of John A. McDonald.

00:00:25.840 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:30.000 Welcome to the Andrew Lawton Show, Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show here on True North.

00:00:37.280 It is absolutely my pleasure to have you aboard on the program here on this Friday, November the 13th.

00:00:44.340 If you thought 2020 was bad, and you think Friday the 13th are bad, well, this is Friday the 13th in 2020,

00:00:51.140 but hopefully by this point you've been able to manage to get through your day without any of the cursed traditions of whatever either one has in store for you.

00:01:00.000 So it is, again, my pleasure. Thank you for tuning into the show here.

00:01:03.720 Let's talk a little bit about, not the Masked Singer, which is the big show that's on that I don't quite understand,

00:01:11.740 wherein singers wearing masks sing, and you have to guess who's under the mask.

00:01:17.180 I guess you know what, everyone needs a little bit of joy.

00:01:19.040 I want to talk about the mask ringers, the people who are promoting masks as being this panacea for the coronavirus pandemic,

00:01:26.880 despite the fact that none of the measures that were put in place a few months ago have avoided the period we're in now

00:01:35.340 that politicians are calling the second wave.

00:01:37.920 So all of these things that were done, these draconian measures to lock us down, to mandate masks in public spaces,

00:01:45.100 none of those have avoided what is increasingly seeming like it is the inevitable.

00:01:50.740 Let's take a look at Ontario's latest projections.

00:01:54.340 Ontario could see up to 6,500 new daily cases of COVID-19 in December, latest modelling shows.

00:02:01.760 Now, why this is so significant, and I've talked about the fact that cases are a bit of a misnomer.

00:02:08.160 Well, I guess not a misnomer, but cases are not the best measure of the pandemic.

00:02:12.520 You have to look at deaths and hospitalisations to really grasp the severity of it.

00:02:17.260 But the reason I'm focusing on this is because right now,

00:02:20.420 Ontario is setting records every day with the number of new cases it's adding, most recently just shy of 1,600.

00:02:27.140 So they're talking about modelling showing that in the coming weeks, in about a month's time,

00:02:32.800 there could be, could be, four times as many cases each day as there are this week.

00:02:39.000 The article says the new modelling predicts the province will reach 2,500 new daily cases by that time

00:02:44.240 if the growth rate is at 3% or 6,500 if growth is at 5%.

00:02:50.080 Dr. Adelstein Brown, who's one of the Ontario experts behind the projections,

00:02:54.680 said a 5% growth rate is in line with the current situation,

00:02:58.720 or even slightly optimistic, noting the growth rate over the previous three days was 6%.

00:03:06.060 So to get down to brass tacks, here's the advice put forward by the Ontario experts.

00:03:11.380 If we continue on with the current levels of restrictions,

00:03:15.280 I would not expect to see any deviation from the current results.

00:03:18.860 You'd continue to see growth.

00:03:20.360 I do not believe that there's a way that the cases will change without action.

00:03:25.780 So here's where we are looking now.

00:03:29.160 The government is getting advice from people that say what we actually need are more lockdowns.

00:03:34.900 We need to further clamp down.

00:03:36.560 We need to further restrict activity and what people can do.

00:03:39.400 And that's the only way that we can avoid this.

00:03:41.720 Now let's talk about modelling here because modelling is more of an art than a science.

00:03:46.800 And I think that this is particularly true when you look at how the modelling data

00:03:50.900 have been wrong throughout most of the pandemic.

00:03:54.440 I remember when Ontario first released its modelling, and I was a big believer in that.

00:03:59.180 And Doug Ford, I thought, did a very good thing in sharing it.

00:04:01.940 He said, I want the people of the province to see the data on which I am making decisions.

00:04:07.540 And those data were actually saying that we could be looking at 100,000 deaths

00:04:13.500 if the virus were just left to do its own thing.

00:04:15.800 That was what those initial reports were saying, about 100,000 deaths.

00:04:19.600 And even beyond, they were saying thousands.

00:04:21.760 And the reality has fallen short of those projections.

00:04:25.960 And that's a good thing.

00:04:26.880 We don't want it to be that bad.

00:04:28.500 But the whole point is the modelling tends to reflect the biases

00:04:31.720 of the people that are putting the models together.

00:04:34.800 And right now, there is a predisposition to say

00:04:37.620 that these things are going to keep getting worse and worse and worse

00:04:41.320 unless we put more and more lockdown measures in place.

00:04:44.580 And that's exactly what's happening in Ontario.

00:04:48.200 Randall Denley, also in the National Post, says,

00:04:50.580 Ford is about to lock down Ontario further, hopefully more carefully this time.

00:04:55.920 And he's talking about the modelling that I just shared with you.

00:04:59.500 And he's saying that, yes, these details, if they're true,

00:05:02.500 will put a significant strain on the healthcare system.

00:05:05.320 And they're calling for specifically more lockdowns.

00:05:10.160 And then he points out, I think, which is a very sage analysis.

00:05:13.600 He said,

00:05:14.320 the analysis that we've had so far suggested that the partial lockdown

00:05:18.240 that closed restaurants and gyms for a month across much of the province

00:05:21.820 had only a limited effect on case numbers.

00:05:24.780 There's a good reason for that.

00:05:26.160 Those sectors weren't contributing much to the problem in the first place.

00:05:31.200 And herein lies the rub.

00:05:34.080 The things that are done to supposedly stop the virus from spreading by governments

00:05:40.040 don't tend to target the areas where transmissions are actually taking place.

00:05:45.380 The hospitality sector is responsible for a minuscule,

00:05:49.900 minuscule portion of coronavirus transmission.

00:05:53.640 And no more than any other place it could be.

00:05:56.460 And the hospitality sector is one of the most hard hit by lockdowns

00:06:00.720 because it's deemed so-called non-essential.

00:06:03.960 And, you know, I actually had this conversation with someone the other day.

00:06:06.900 Anything is an essential business if you rely on it to feed your family.

00:06:12.640 So this idea of essential, non-essential,

00:06:14.960 I think has been one of the most dangerous things to come out of the pandemic

00:06:18.500 because government has decided unilaterally that things are either necessary or unnecessary.

00:06:24.060 But because of that, they've kind of decided that,

00:06:27.480 OK, well, therefore, the virus has more of a likelihood of transmitting at a necessary

00:06:32.560 or at an unnecessary business than a necessary business

00:06:35.780 instead of focusing on, OK, how can we do everything safely?

00:06:39.480 How can we adapt and amend our practices so that,

00:06:43.420 sure, you can go bowling safely,

00:06:45.080 or sure, you can go to a movie theater safely,

00:06:47.720 or sure, you can go to a dine-in restaurant safely?

00:06:50.360 Why is, and again, when Ontario rolled back from stage three

00:06:54.740 into this, like, multicolored approach that they have now,

00:06:57.720 one of the first things to go in these so-called hotspots

00:07:01.120 was dining in at restaurants.

00:07:04.260 That was the thing because, OK, no, we're back to takeout only for restaurants.

00:07:07.580 And I'm thinking here, well, wait, where were the cases in restaurants?

00:07:11.760 So when they put in these further restrictions,

00:07:14.080 they're not actually addressing the question of, OK, what is the biggest impact?

00:07:20.760 Where are the areas that are most responsible for it? 0.84

00:07:24.340 No, they're saying, what are the easiest things to shut down?

00:07:29.340 And they're going for the low-hanging fruit, but it isn't about the actual case.

00:07:34.540 And where things are happening are people that are deciding

00:07:37.500 they aren't paying attention to the rules or aren't interested in it,

00:07:40.700 people that are in close contact, people that are having dinner parties,

00:07:43.580 people that are traveling in groups, people that are doing all of these sorts of things.

00:07:47.760 This is where the numbers are coming from.

00:07:51.360 And that is not going to be changed because that's a behavioral thing

00:07:55.320 by most of the legislation, unless you want to start putting in this Stasi-esque

00:07:59.420 door knocking, the 12 a.m. knock on the door just to make sure you don't have

00:08:04.360 anyone from another household in your home.

00:08:06.700 So we have to stop believing that there's going to be a way to regulate our way out of this

00:08:11.180 when all of the data we've seen to date have been really overemphasizing the risk.

00:08:16.800 And more importantly, all of the things that have been targeted,

00:08:20.240 the things that have been scapegoated, have not actually been responsible for it,

00:08:24.420 which is why these restrictions haven't actually done anything.

00:08:28.960 And when I said a moment ago that any business is essential if it is your business,

00:08:33.640 I have to share some of the effects that these measures are having on people

00:08:38.440 because I don't really think the media is paying attention to the effect of the pandemic

00:08:43.360 on the businesses that are being shut down as much as they're talking about the people

00:08:47.580 that are affected by it medically, which is, again, a valuable story.

00:08:51.540 Calgary bar and gym owners describe how they'll adapt to the latest COVID-19 measures.

00:08:56.360 So this is responding to Alberta, which has put in what Jason Kenney is pretending right now.

00:09:02.620 And I don't say that as a swipe at Jason Kenney.

00:09:04.420 I just know that anytime someone says something's just for two weeks, we've learned that that isn't the case.

00:09:09.620 A two-week pause, basically, on recreational sports, restricting bar and restaurant hours,

00:09:16.600 and fitness classes and stuff like that.

00:09:19.060 It's just for two weeks.

00:09:20.100 Jason Kenney says this two-week pause is, quote,

00:09:23.000 our last chance to avoid more restrictive measures that I and most Albertans desperately want to avoid.

00:09:28.880 What it is is that for two weeks from this week until November 27th,

00:09:33.720 you can't have an indoor Zumba class or whatever, no team sports, no amateur choir,

00:09:38.760 which is unfortunate because I was hoping to get out to an amateur choir event in Calgary at some point.

00:09:44.200 I haven't yet, but, you know, you never know.

00:09:46.160 You don't know what you're missing until someone tells you you can't do it.

00:09:49.600 And this is going to be in Edmonton and surrounding areas, Calgary and surrounding areas.

00:09:55.500 And Jason Kenney has said, yes, you know, fitness operators, sports organizations,

00:09:59.680 they've done a good job so far.

00:10:01.660 This is just saying that at this province, at this point in the province,

00:10:05.120 we need to get rid of anything that has a chance of spreading infection from one to many.

00:10:11.760 And anything where people are using exertion or singing or yelling,

00:10:16.620 anything like that is going to have a greater risk.

00:10:18.380 But I'm still wondering, where are the cases?

00:10:22.260 Where are the cases at the Zumba class?

00:10:24.240 Where are the cases at a church choir event?

00:10:27.280 Where are the cases in some event like this?

00:10:30.180 Where are the cases of people getting it at a restaurant after 11 p.m.

00:10:34.560 when restaurants and bars will now have to close down?

00:10:37.080 And if there's data that are showing that there is a surge happening after hours,

00:10:41.780 you know, I saw a meme to this effect the other day where, you know,

00:10:44.580 there's no coronavirus at 10.59, but once 11 p.m. hits,

00:10:47.700 or it might have been 9.59, 10, once, you know, the clock strikes, whatever it is,

00:10:52.800 coronavirus just, you know, pops in on there.

00:10:54.860 It's a nocturnal virus.

00:10:56.120 It only comes out at night.

00:10:57.760 That's the real Friday the 13th spook this year.

00:11:00.520 So when we have politicians going after these measures,

00:11:04.340 it is negatively affecting people that are already hanging on by a very thread.

00:11:09.520 So to go back to the businesses that are trying to amend and adapt and move on,

00:11:15.300 the owner of the Side Street Pub and Grill says,

00:11:17.840 listen, I mean, this has proven to be a financial crunch.

00:11:21.220 He said restaurants are going to be okay.

00:11:23.160 But for pubs, this is now eating into our golden hours.

00:11:27.220 And he points out the obvious here that if you're forced to leave a pub at 11 p.m.,

00:11:31.060 people are just going to go to someone's home.

00:11:33.200 So you're not actually dealing with the problem.

00:11:36.540 If anything, you're making it less safe

00:11:38.360 because now you don't have the contact tracing vehicle that a pub offers

00:11:42.680 or some sort of institutional setting.

00:11:45.540 And more importantly, people are going to be more confined

00:11:47.920 if they go to someone's house,

00:11:49.660 which again, you're not changing the desire to socialize.

00:11:53.800 You're not changing the desire that people have to hang out with their friends,

00:11:58.060 to have a few drinks.

00:11:59.040 You're just shifting it from one place to another.

00:12:01.740 And so much of this pandemic has been instilling false senses of security.

00:12:08.240 And there's probably no greater example of that than masks.

00:12:12.000 And I know I've talked about this a number of times,

00:12:14.080 but remember the trajectory here.

00:12:15.740 We went from masks are dangerous

00:12:18.440 because they give you a false sense of security.

00:12:20.180 They don't really do anything.

00:12:21.620 To, eh, right, you could wear a mask if you want one.

00:12:24.480 To everyone should wear a mask.

00:12:26.040 To everyone must wear a mask.

00:12:28.120 And last week, or it might have been two weeks ago,

00:12:30.360 the government shifted again to say,

00:12:32.460 well, you know, maybe you should all have three layer masks.

00:12:35.060 So now a lot of these, you know, special masks that people ordered

00:12:38.080 are not necessarily going to be doing the job here.

00:12:41.660 But here's where, again, I point out that mask orders went into effect

00:12:46.900 quite a while ago, several months ago.

00:12:50.420 In many municipalities and province-wide in Ontario and other jurisdictions,

00:12:55.960 masks became a requirement.

00:12:57.860 So this so-called second wave, this surge in cases,

00:13:03.820 has come while everyone has been forced by law to wear masks indoors.

00:13:10.460 So perhaps, perhaps this is to say that if no one were wearing masks,

00:13:15.200 the spike would have been sharper or would have come sooner.

00:13:17.960 But suffice it to say, I don't think masks have actually done anything.

00:13:22.560 And this is why people are starting to question it

00:13:26.820 and instead are being vilified by government.

00:13:29.740 They're being called a bunch of yahoos or whatever the case may be.

00:13:32.700 They're being maligned by media when they decide they want to have

00:13:35.940 these rallies and events because they want to criticize these measures.

00:13:39.460 And the politics of masks have become quite important

00:13:42.500 because mask shaming, two words that I'm not convinced

00:13:46.020 have ever been put together in the history of the English language,

00:13:49.060 mask shaming is now a thing where people that don't want to wear a mask

00:13:53.420 or people that for medical reasons can't wear a mask

00:13:56.020 are shamed by others because they're apparently killing grandma,

00:13:59.800 even though the cases are apparently getting so bad

00:14:02.740 that to go back to those Ontario numbers,

00:14:05.060 there would be 6,000 cases a day if the current restrictions were to hold,

00:14:08.940 which include mandatory masks in pretty much all individual settings.

00:14:13.100 You can take it off to, you know, have a sip of your water

00:14:15.080 to eat at a restaurant or something like that.

00:14:17.540 But if you look at these mask guidelines,

00:14:21.980 CBC did a story on this marketplace analysis

00:14:25.820 where they actually tested a bunch of masks.

00:14:28.580 They tested over 20 different types of masks

00:14:30.660 ranging from, you know, the bandana that's just tied around

00:14:33.840 to the N95s to masks that people have

00:14:37.580 that you see every now and then have like a filtration valve on them.

00:14:41.180 And they found that there's no unanimity

00:14:43.900 in terms of how effective they are.

00:14:45.900 Some of them are actually not doing all that much at all.

00:14:49.100 Some of them are doing quite well,

00:14:50.740 like the blue surgical type masks

00:14:52.780 or white cotton with inner layer,

00:14:55.320 melt brown, non-woven polypropylene,

00:14:58.500 which just, you know, rolls off the tongue.

00:15:00.640 In fact, I love white cotton with inner layer,

00:15:02.740 melt blown, something, something, something propylene.

00:15:05.560 I think I might have said melt brown.

00:15:06.900 I meant melt blown.

00:15:07.680 Melt brown is like one of the colors you can get it,

00:15:09.900 like Benjamin Moore, I think.

00:15:11.320 No, melt blown.

00:15:12.120 So these are the masks that apparently were the top performers.

00:15:16.040 There were some that did well, some that did not so well.

00:15:19.100 And the stylish ones like the sequin masks

00:15:22.340 or the leopard print rayon masks

00:15:24.580 or the other polyester cotton ones did not do well at all.

00:15:30.020 And the ones with the exhalation valves actually do nothing

00:15:32.800 because you're actually basically just turning your mouth

00:15:36.140 into a spray bottle for the particles

00:15:38.900 that could contain the viruses in that case.

00:15:41.120 But what I find to be kind of bizarre about this

00:15:44.600 is that their study was actually quite exhaustive.

00:15:47.440 They did it with a University of Toronto professor

00:15:49.880 at the School of Public Health,

00:15:51.300 and they looked at particles that were similar in nature

00:15:54.280 to the particles that could contain coronavirus

00:15:57.440 and could be responsible for transmitting it.

00:16:00.940 And they found that basically when you go through these steps,

00:16:06.500 the masks are not preventing the virus from getting out.

00:16:10.940 And most of the masks that people are getting,

00:16:13.360 most of the models are not.

00:16:15.520 So when you have people that are just wearing a mask,

00:16:19.900 because that's what the government says,

00:16:21.160 you have to wear a mask,

00:16:22.940 there's no guarantee

00:16:24.320 that anyone's wearing a particularly effective mask.

00:16:29.540 So that may be part of the problem.

00:16:31.420 That may be part of why the mask mandate

00:16:33.160 hasn't really done as much as it should.

00:16:35.240 But I also think that there's something missing from the story here.

00:16:38.620 Because when we look at the countries

00:16:39.820 that had the greatest success with the virus early on,

00:16:44.020 the most notable examples, I think,

00:16:45.700 are Taiwan and South Korea.

00:16:48.340 They did masks right out of the gate.

00:16:50.800 They also did border closures right out of the gate.

00:16:53.100 And they kind of prevented the virus

00:16:54.840 from being a thing in the first place.

00:16:57.540 And it seems like once the virus is in,

00:17:00.920 once it is endemic to your society or state or province or country,

00:17:06.320 once that has happened,

00:17:07.880 none of these measures are really going to do all that much.

00:17:12.320 And I don't know if the takeaway from that is that,

00:17:14.780 oh, well, we missed our shot

00:17:15.840 and now we've got to live with it.

00:17:16.980 I would say no.

00:17:17.700 I'd say the takeaway is

00:17:18.700 let's focus on the social distancing aspect,

00:17:21.480 on doing what we can safely

00:17:23.200 within the parameters of the country we want to live in.

00:17:26.740 But let's not believe that we can kind of just get this down to zero

00:17:30.560 when that was never practical

00:17:32.940 unless we prevented it from getting above zero really in the first place.

00:17:37.660 And you know, one thing I have to point out here

00:17:39.680 that I found interesting and actually kind of sickening

00:17:41.860 because the very beginning of this,

00:17:44.120 the part of the world that unleashed this virus on the rest of us, 0.97

00:17:48.420 Wuhan and China,

00:17:49.860 they actually seem to be quite fine with it afterwards.

00:17:52.480 You know, they were kind of like the first economy

00:17:55.620 to kind of fully open and stay open

00:17:58.100 and they've not had a second wave really.

00:18:00.860 They've just been able to go back to life as normal

00:18:03.600 while everyone else is somehow finding things are worse now

00:18:06.260 than they were at the very beginning.

00:18:08.720 Now, I'm not to say that Wuhan is at all something

00:18:11.820 that we want to aspire to be.

00:18:13.440 I think that it's been reckless

00:18:14.720 and I maintain what I said months ago

00:18:17.280 and have continued to say,

00:18:18.560 which is that China must pay

00:18:20.160 and the world's capitulation

00:18:21.720 and the World Health Organization's capitulation to China 0.85

00:18:24.900 is absolutely sickening.

00:18:26.920 But let's also be very keenly aware

00:18:29.860 that they are not dealing with the restrictions

00:18:33.000 the way that other places in the world are.

00:18:36.620 And I'm not going to go the Trudeau route

00:18:38.860 and say that China's my favorite country in the world.

00:18:41.580 China's dictatorship is so great. 0.63

00:18:43.020 But I'm pointing out that there's something particularly unfair

00:18:45.900 about the way that Western nations are dealing with this

00:18:49.680 that doesn't seem to fly with what we see

00:18:53.320 even elsewhere in Asia.

00:18:54.980 So I want to point out that there are constitutional issues,

00:18:59.760 there are economic issues,

00:19:01.240 there are public health issues,

00:19:03.000 there is a lot that goes into figuring out

00:19:06.100 what is right and what is appropriate.

00:19:08.020 But the tyranny of experts,

00:19:10.800 as I've called it in the past,

00:19:12.480 is such that we are kind of

00:19:14.800 just completely relinquishing everything

00:19:17.040 to these models

00:19:18.500 that aren't necessarily telling the full picture.

00:19:22.160 And this isn't about coronavirus trutherism.

00:19:24.420 This isn't about saying this isn't real.

00:19:26.540 I'm saying it's very much real,

00:19:28.180 but a response needs to be measured.

00:19:30.600 Otherwise, there's no way a society can survive.

00:19:33.880 Remember the trajectory,

00:19:35.320 the two weeks to flatten the curve

00:19:36.840 and then eight months later,

00:19:38.520 here we are talking about another in Alberta,

00:19:40.800 two-week pause

00:19:41.600 to prevent maybe some further restrictions.

00:19:46.280 And then you have other parts of the province

00:19:48.680 that aren't even pretending the two weeks.

00:19:50.220 It's as long as it takes,

00:19:51.900 which is why Christmas is the next battleground.

00:19:55.460 I think a lot of Canadians are looking at the holidays,

00:19:58.620 hopeful that that'll be a moment

00:20:01.080 where we can gather again

00:20:02.900 and see loved ones that we haven't seen in a long time.

00:20:07.400 Whether or not we're able to do that

00:20:09.100 depends entirely on all of us

00:20:12.540 doing what we each need to do.

00:20:15.380 Christmas is the next battleground right now.

00:20:17.600 And I want to share with you something

00:20:19.300 that was from a publication out in Seattle

00:20:22.440 called The Stranger.

00:20:24.680 And it's not that I hold this up

00:20:26.320 as being the most significant contribution

00:20:29.020 to the field of nonfiction writing.

00:20:31.740 In fact, I think it's actually

00:20:32.840 quite a laughable joke, this publication.

00:20:36.000 But there is an argument

00:20:37.660 that is being put forward here

00:20:39.260 that I think people need to understand

00:20:41.100 to know where the other side,

00:20:43.440 the pro-lockdown side,

00:20:45.060 is approaching this from.

00:20:46.880 And this thread says as follows,

00:20:48.680 our childish obsession with seeing family on holidays

00:20:52.120 is going to kill our families in record numbers.

00:20:54.880 People don't respond well to scolds

00:20:56.540 because they don't enjoy others treating them like children.

00:20:58.960 But what the hell are we supposed to do

00:21:01.120 with the fact that Americans

00:21:02.180 keep booking cross-country trips

00:21:03.820 just to pretend they like their grandmother's 0.78

00:21:06.740 sad-ass candied yams? 0.53

00:21:08.820 Seattle-Tacoma International Airport says

00:21:10.720 the upcoming holiday travel season

00:21:12.340 is projected to see the largest number of travelers

00:21:15.200 since the COVID-19 pandemic at SeaTac,

00:21:18.060 despite the fact that the country

00:21:19.200 is now breaking records for daily infection cases.

00:21:22.540 It goes on,

00:21:23.500 everyone should know by now

00:21:25.880 after the COVID waves

00:21:26.940 following Memorial Day weekend in July 4th

00:21:29.320 that these small family gatherings

00:21:30.840 spread the virus like wildfire.

00:21:33.020 But despite clear warnings and clear precedent,

00:21:35.520 all these walking Greek tragedies 1.00

00:21:37.600 still plan to endanger the people they love

00:21:39.640 to prove they love them.

00:21:41.700 And because they earnestly miss them,

00:21:43.260 et cetera, et cetera.

00:21:44.380 But come on.

00:21:45.440 And then it gets a little profane there,

00:21:46.840 but says stay home,

00:21:47.860 buy granny a turkey smoothie

00:21:49.020 and put her on speakerphone this year.

00:21:50.840 Wait till next year, people.

00:21:52.520 Now, look, I'm all for a good polemic

00:21:54.860 every now and then.

00:21:56.120 The danger in this is not the F-bomb.

00:21:58.820 The danger is in this attitude

00:22:00.100 that people are viewing,

00:22:02.160 you know, spending time with family

00:22:03.600 as inherently non-essential.

00:22:06.060 When for so many people,

00:22:08.100 that isn't viable.

00:22:09.900 That is not a tenable position to have.

00:22:12.500 And I mentioned earlier

00:22:13.440 this dynamic between essential and non-essential

00:22:16.200 and the danger in allowing government

00:22:18.480 to decide what is necessary and unnecessary.

00:22:20.740 We still do not know the full scope

00:22:24.080 of the effect of the pandemic

00:22:26.580 on people socially.

00:22:27.920 Depression, suicide.

00:22:29.780 Anecdotally, I've heard from people

00:22:31.120 in the mental health sector

00:22:32.220 that have just said,

00:22:33.120 it's absolutely terrible.

00:22:34.580 It'll take quite a while

00:22:35.760 before we have numbers

00:22:37.780 to really show just how severious that is.

00:22:40.140 And then you look at drug use

00:22:41.720 and other things, crime,

00:22:43.760 job loss, business shutdown.

00:22:45.740 I mean, the list goes on and on and on.

00:22:47.860 But you have people saying that,

00:22:49.700 you know what,

00:22:50.080 visiting your family is non-essential.

00:22:52.140 And I agree,

00:22:52.780 maybe you don't need to have

00:22:53.640 the big giant Griswold family Christmas,

00:22:55.820 but that doesn't mean that,

00:22:57.480 you know, seeing an elderly relative

00:22:59.480 who's lonely,

00:23:00.400 who might not have much time left in the world,

00:23:02.620 should be at all characterized

00:23:04.900 as the evil that it is

00:23:06.880 by a great many people.

00:23:09.020 Because it's not.

00:23:10.400 And, you know, the longer this goes on,

00:23:12.860 the longer a new dynamic becomes apparent,

00:23:15.060 which is how do people want to live

00:23:16.500 the last years of their lives?

00:23:18.660 If this stretches beyond the one year mark,

00:23:21.520 which it looks at this point

00:23:22.500 like it very may well,

00:23:24.380 then people are going to have to start

00:23:26.180 asking that question of,

00:23:27.220 okay, is this how I want to spend my last days?

00:23:30.640 I'm not talking about mass suicide.

00:23:31.880 I'm not talking about like,

00:23:32.760 you know, a Jonestown scenario here.

00:23:35.160 Don't drink the bunch, people.

00:23:36.400 What I am talking about is that

00:23:38.280 when you have to kind of just go

00:23:40.520 without something,

00:23:41.620 without an indulgence for a little while,

00:23:43.400 it's like, okay, you know what,

00:23:44.420 we could all live without it.

00:23:45.700 When that indulgence is something

00:23:48.000 that you've always been able

00:23:48.980 to take for granted,

00:23:49.920 which is, you know, seeing your family,

00:23:51.920 which is having a Christmas dinner.

00:23:53.460 These are not things that you can take away

00:23:56.440 without necessarily risking

00:23:58.680 societal, social, personal,

00:24:01.120 or emotional consequences.

00:24:02.920 So it's actually quite offensive

00:24:04.560 that people are saying,

00:24:05.480 ah, you don't need that.

00:24:06.640 Maybe you don't, but other people do.

00:24:09.160 There are other people

00:24:09.920 where this is kind of the only

00:24:11.000 social interaction they'll have had all year.

00:24:13.600 And if there's a way to do it safely,

00:24:15.520 then that should be explored.

00:24:18.660 That should be explored.

00:24:20.160 So now we have, again, the CBC story

00:24:22.580 that because of Ontario's COVID-19 resurgence,

00:24:26.060 will people adjust their Christmas plans?

00:24:28.780 And this is, mark my words,

00:24:31.060 it's November 13th.

00:24:32.520 In the coming two weeks,

00:24:34.440 we're going to be told

00:24:35.880 that Christmas is going to be canceled.

00:24:38.700 Give it two weeks.

00:24:39.760 I'm not going to predict the exact day,

00:24:41.940 but I certainly, by the end of November,

00:24:43.720 I think we're going to be told

00:24:44.820 that Christmas has to be canceled.

00:24:46.700 And they'll say, consider doing

00:24:48.000 Zoom Christmas dinners,

00:24:49.880 Zoom gift unwrapping ceremonies.

00:24:52.360 You know what?

00:24:53.060 We already heard the BC public health officers

00:24:55.100 say Santa is immune from COVID,

00:24:57.200 but you have to leave him hand sanitizer

00:24:59.360 and no milk or cookies

00:25:01.140 because you know what?

00:25:02.060 You can't turn your house

00:25:02.940 into a dine-in establishment

00:25:04.220 or Doug Ford and Jason Kenney

00:25:06.400 and all the other governments

00:25:08.560 will shut him down.

00:25:09.780 So you have to have hand sanitizer for Santa,

00:25:12.280 but he's COVID immune.

00:25:13.200 Don't worry.

00:25:14.000 But none of the other things

00:25:15.300 that are going to happen in your house

00:25:16.320 are COVID immune.

00:25:17.100 So you got to cancel all those.

00:25:18.800 And again, the reason I'm so keenly aware of this

00:25:22.460 is because every single time

00:25:24.620 one of these holidays comes up,

00:25:26.140 we're told that the next one will be fine

00:25:28.200 and then it's not.

00:25:30.480 And again, don't be irresponsible.

00:25:32.500 Don't be reckless.

00:25:33.380 But I will not stand by

00:25:36.040 while government starts telling people

00:25:38.100 that this indefinite lockdown

00:25:39.940 is not going to come

00:25:41.880 without separate risks

00:25:43.280 than what it's supposedly protecting against.

00:25:45.520 We've got to take a break.

00:25:46.420 More of The Andrew Lawton Show up next.

00:25:49.340 You're tuned in to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:25:54.520 Welcome back to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:25:56.920 So here's a great illustration

00:25:58.640 of the problems with government

00:26:00.280 determining essential or non-essential.

00:26:02.920 Let's talk about Carlos Larmond

00:26:05.020 or Larmond who was jailed in 2016

00:26:07.460 after authorities found

00:26:08.600 that he tried to leave Canada

00:26:09.900 with the intention of joining ISIS,

00:26:12.280 which is a criminal act.

00:26:14.040 He and his brother were part

00:26:15.160 of an Ottawa area terror cell.

00:26:17.560 He was busted.

00:26:19.060 And as such, he's managed to end up behind bars.

00:26:22.380 Now he's slowly served out his time

00:26:24.500 and is now living in a Calgary halfway house,

00:26:27.640 but he still has a number of restrictions

00:26:29.700 that he has gone to the parole board

00:26:31.920 to have overturned.

00:26:33.500 And after his release from prison,

00:26:35.340 he's decided that he wanted to go

00:26:37.180 to a ski resort and stay overnight.

00:26:40.560 He wanted to take a little getaway

00:26:41.780 with his girlfriend turned fiance,

00:26:43.760 who will soon potentially be his wife.

00:26:46.380 And what has happened

00:26:47.660 is the parole board has granted this.

00:26:51.360 Yeah, the parole board of Canada

00:26:52.840 has decided that, yes,

00:26:54.580 he should have the right to go

00:26:56.140 to this ski resort on an overnight trip,

00:27:00.300 despite the fact that he is,

00:27:02.700 I would say, asking to do something

00:27:04.700 that is quite non-essential.

00:27:06.860 Now, part of the reason

00:27:08.000 I think this story is important

00:27:09.360 is because I thought

00:27:10.720 that we could call him the ski hottie.

00:27:12.960 And once I thought of that,

00:27:14.400 I was like, I have to talk about this

00:27:15.660 on the show just so I can drop

00:27:16.800 the ski hottie pun.

00:27:17.680 So the ski hottie, Carlos Larmond,

00:27:20.340 gets to take this little overnight visit.

00:27:22.840 The reason he's at the halfway house 0.99

00:27:24.540 is because of, quote,

00:27:25.720 his need for constant close monitoring, unquote.

00:27:29.680 But apparently the girlfriend in question 0.88

00:27:31.420 is described by the parole board

00:27:33.260 as a positive support.

00:27:35.160 So positive, in fact,

00:27:36.420 that maybe he's not trying

00:27:38.100 to commit acts of terror anymore,

00:27:39.840 despite the fact that he converted

00:27:41.380 to Islam 11 or more years ago.

00:27:44.760 And he was trying to leave the country

00:27:46.640 with the express purpose

00:27:47.860 of partaking in terrorist activity.

00:27:50.740 And despite the fact

00:27:51.800 that there are some, you know,

00:27:55.500 questions about whether he,

00:27:56.900 his girlfriend may be a positive support,

00:27:58.920 the parole board also said last year

00:28:00.640 that he has shown, quote,

00:28:01.820 problematic institutional behavior

00:28:03.960 and security concerns, unquote,

00:28:06.600 attempting to radicalize fellow inmates.

00:28:09.560 So it's not like, oh, you know what?

00:28:11.220 That was, he's seen the error of his ways.

00:28:12.980 He's just been trying

00:28:13.680 to radicalize other people

00:28:14.860 and authority figures

00:28:16.620 and others have found

00:28:19.180 that found that he's threatened them.

00:28:21.160 And he's been convicted of five offenses

00:28:23.160 during his time in prison.

00:28:24.560 But apparently he's been compliant generally.

00:28:27.040 So I don't know how you square this,

00:28:28.820 that the report said on one hand

00:28:30.440 that he has not shown change.

00:28:33.060 He's attempted to radicalize others.

00:28:35.220 His potential harm to the community

00:28:37.020 is exceptional.

00:28:38.440 And then later on they say,

00:28:39.980 okay, well, you've been compliant now.

00:28:41.680 So he's had 10 months of compliance,

00:28:44.060 which means he gets a little ski getaway

00:28:45.900 with his girlfriend.

00:28:47.060 And by the way, you know,

00:28:48.220 I think terrorism is a very serious thing.

00:28:50.860 I also think that we need to take

00:28:52.760 the terror conduct of people very seriously

00:28:55.620 because anytime we hear

00:28:57.900 of these so-called lone wolf attacks,

00:28:59.820 it's almost entirely the case

00:29:01.960 that they were on the radar,

00:29:03.760 on someone's radar for quite a while

00:29:05.680 or some agency's radar.

00:29:06.880 And I'm not at all saying

00:29:08.640 that this guy is going to do anything.

00:29:10.000 Look, if he's kind of shed this,

00:29:11.800 I'm very grateful.

00:29:13.060 But I do think that you need

00:29:14.300 a little bit more than just 10 months

00:29:16.800 after trying to radicalize people,

00:29:19.340 threaten jail guards and stuff like that.

00:29:21.900 You need a little bit more

00:29:23.080 for anyone to be able to say,

00:29:24.660 okay, you've clearly changed.

00:29:26.380 So here we are with giving ski vacations

00:29:29.220 to convicted terrorists

00:29:31.520 and only in Canada.

00:29:32.780 I'm sure the $10.5 million check

00:29:34.500 can't be all that far behind.

00:29:36.880 And just in complete nonsense terms,

00:29:39.860 let's look at what's happening

00:29:40.860 in Halifax right now.

00:29:42.460 Sir John A. Macdonald High School has,

00:29:44.920 I bet you know how this story goes

00:29:46.700 before I even say it,

00:29:48.140 decided to change its name

00:29:49.920 to be more inclusive.

00:29:52.680 Yes, this is coming from

00:29:54.340 the principal of the school

00:29:55.360 who said in a letter to parents

00:29:56.740 that Macdonald's school policy

00:29:59.100 for Indigenous children

00:30:00.240 and the passage of the Indian Act

00:30:02.240 in 1867 caused irreparable harm

00:30:05.240 to generations of Indigenous people.

00:30:07.700 She says,

00:30:08.380 I feel that Indigenous students,

00:30:10.500 when they see that name up,

00:30:11.700 are not getting full inclusion.

00:30:13.720 So it's really a no-brainer.

00:30:15.720 The school has a thousand students,

00:30:17.680 30 of them are Indigenous,

00:30:19.620 and the principal wants

00:30:21.280 that the school's name

00:30:23.020 is not going to at all

00:30:25.020 threaten or harm these people.

00:30:26.820 Now, it's not actually clear

00:30:28.240 whether anyone was complaining about it.

00:30:30.660 And not that that matters too much

00:30:32.280 because I'm sure that at some point

00:30:33.620 someone would have complained about it

00:30:35.020 if they hadn't already.

00:30:36.840 But it's another example of Canada

00:30:39.520 just being completely devoid

00:30:41.120 of respect for its history and founding

00:30:43.960 and allowing this slow erasure,

00:30:47.320 or perhaps not all that slow anymore,

00:30:49.480 but this erasure nonetheless

00:30:50.580 of Canada's founding

00:30:52.560 from the public square.

00:30:54.120 And it's a statue today.

00:30:56.380 It's a school name tomorrow.

00:30:57.680 It's a school name the next day,

00:30:59.120 a statue the day after that.

00:31:00.760 And eventually,

00:31:01.700 all of these people

00:31:02.520 who are supporting this

00:31:03.700 who say,

00:31:04.580 no, no, no,

00:31:05.060 it's not about erasing history.

00:31:07.320 It's just about contextualizing it

00:31:09.220 and moving it.

00:31:10.240 Eventually, those people have won

00:31:11.960 and will have realized

00:31:13.560 that the joke was on us

00:31:14.560 because they aren't actually interested

00:31:16.140 in the history at all.

00:31:17.680 They just said they were.

00:31:19.240 These are the people

00:31:20.140 that are content to say

00:31:21.400 that we do not have a country

00:31:23.800 to be proud of.

00:31:24.880 We do not have anything

00:31:26.420 to celebrate in our past,

00:31:27.900 that Canada is this genocidal state

00:31:30.300 and nothing else.

00:31:31.700 And this came up in Alberta

00:31:33.320 not that long ago, by the way.

00:31:34.940 The Alberta NDP

00:31:35.800 was trying to recognize

00:31:38.400 that Canada should be included

00:31:40.500 alongside the perpetrators

00:31:42.320 of the Holocaust,

00:31:44.400 the Armenian genocide,

00:31:46.480 the great genocides of history,

00:31:48.820 the Rwandan genocide.

00:31:49.820 They wanted Canada included

00:31:51.980 as a genocidal state.

00:31:55.780 And that is particularly egregious

00:31:57.800 for two reasons.

00:31:58.620 Number one,

00:31:59.120 because there's actually

00:32:00.080 no similarity whatsoever

00:32:01.580 between the Canada that exists today

00:32:03.920 and the versions of countries

00:32:06.960 that they're describing.

00:32:08.740 But also,

00:32:09.720 it's devoid of any sort of

00:32:12.160 legal understanding too

00:32:13.860 because this comes from

00:32:15.900 the missing and murdered

00:32:17.680 Indigenous Women and Girls inquiry,

00:32:19.200 which said,

00:32:20.040 Canada is engaged in genocide.

00:32:21.760 And remember,

00:32:22.280 Justin Trudeau stood up

00:32:23.300 and agreed with this.

00:32:24.480 He accepted those findings.

00:32:26.380 But for a country

00:32:27.220 that supposedly

00:32:27.980 is actively committing genocide,

00:32:30.120 because they weren't

00:32:30.780 talking about past,

00:32:31.740 they were talking about present.

00:32:33.220 For a country that's supposedly

00:32:34.640 actively committing genocide,

00:32:36.960 no one seems to be

00:32:38.140 doing anything about it.

00:32:39.640 If you were a country

00:32:40.680 that were actively

00:32:41.400 committing genocide,

00:32:42.440 you'd think there would be

00:32:43.160 forces within that country

00:32:44.340 that are reporting you

00:32:46.200 to the International Criminal Court,

00:32:48.160 for example.

00:32:49.200 But that's not happening

00:32:50.520 because it was a PR branding.

00:32:53.500 It was not a legal designation.

00:32:56.280 And that was where

00:32:57.160 all of these people

00:32:58.500 who say that Canada

00:32:59.800 is committing genocide right now

00:33:01.260 and should be held up

00:33:02.680 as though we're on a moral equal,

00:33:04.540 a moral equivalence

00:33:05.360 to Nazi Germany, 0.79

00:33:06.580 give your head a shake.

00:33:08.740 But it's revealing

00:33:09.780 in a lot of ways

00:33:10.780 as to the mindset

00:33:12.280 that a lot of these people

00:33:13.360 have towards Canada.

00:33:14.680 This is not to say,

00:33:16.660 this is not to whitewash

00:33:17.680 Canada's history.

00:33:18.520 It's not to whitewash

00:33:19.800 controversial pasts

00:33:20.900 of Canadian figures.

00:33:22.380 One great example of this

00:33:23.740 from the last week

00:33:24.660 is Alexander Hamilton.

00:33:26.480 So I am a big

00:33:28.000 American history fan

00:33:29.220 and I have seen Hamilton

00:33:30.240 and I know

00:33:30.740 the Hamilton musical

00:33:32.160 is not itself

00:33:33.560 a part of the historical record.

00:33:35.760 But it does a really good job

00:33:37.100 at showcasing the story

00:33:38.620 of a founding father

00:33:39.540 who for a great period of time

00:33:41.640 was not actually focused

00:33:43.080 on all that much.

00:33:44.640 And the narrative

00:33:45.500 that was created

00:33:46.520 about Hamilton

00:33:47.300 was that he was an immigrant,

00:33:49.420 which is not true.

00:33:50.260 He moved from one part

00:33:51.120 of the British Empire

00:33:51.720 to another,

00:33:52.400 but that's,

00:33:52.840 I digress.

00:33:53.760 That he was an immigrant,

00:33:54.960 that he was this ragtag group

00:33:56.260 in the musical,

00:33:57.320 all the characters

00:33:57.920 or most of the characters 0.67

00:33:58.840 are black,

00:34:00.080 even though the real figures weren't.

00:34:02.240 But Hamilton was like

00:34:03.480 meant to be

00:34:04.160 this great immigrant hero.

00:34:07.740 And this musical,

00:34:09.560 which I thought

00:34:09.980 was very well done

00:34:11.140 and I'm not a big rapper,

00:34:12.600 but I can sing along

00:34:13.480 to a couple of them,

00:34:14.720 has kind of put

00:34:15.880 Alexander Hamilton

00:34:16.860 into public consciousness.

00:34:18.440 Well, last week,

00:34:19.600 a historian revealed findings

00:34:22.240 that Alexander Hamilton

00:34:23.420 was a slave owner.

00:34:25.500 Now, most people

00:34:26.380 would not be surprised by this

00:34:27.780 because that was

00:34:28.680 kind of the nature of the era.

00:34:30.600 Alexander Hamilton's wife

00:34:31.740 became an abolitionist

00:34:33.200 after his passing,

00:34:34.620 but he was,

00:34:35.780 according to his financial records,

00:34:37.980 which no one

00:34:38.520 had apparently looked into,

00:34:39.860 the financial records

00:34:40.780 of America's treasury secretary,

00:34:42.500 he was a slave owner.

00:34:44.600 Now, the takeaway from this,

00:34:46.060 I think,

00:34:46.440 is actually hilarious

00:34:47.240 because now people

00:34:48.300 are going to be joking around

00:34:49.480 to say,

00:34:50.720 oh, well,

00:34:50.960 we got to cancel Hamilton now.

00:34:52.320 Maybe it won't be a joke,

00:34:53.340 though,

00:34:53.500 because now Alexander Hamilton

00:34:55.440 is a slave owner. 0.86

00:34:56.320 We can't have anything

00:34:57.140 to do with him.

00:34:58.200 What about the orphanage

00:34:59.400 that his wife founded

00:35:00.760 in New York?

00:35:01.420 Oh, that's got to go.

00:35:02.700 So Hamilton is now

00:35:04.080 a slave owner.

00:35:05.520 I would say,

00:35:06.400 okay,

00:35:07.640 this proves something

00:35:08.780 very important,

00:35:10.120 that good people

00:35:11.080 who do great things,

00:35:12.200 who do positive things

00:35:13.300 at a point in time

00:35:14.620 when certain other behaviors

00:35:16.080 were acceptable

00:35:17.280 might have engaged

00:35:18.680 in those behaviors,

00:35:19.520 and we can thank God

00:35:20.680 as a country

00:35:21.580 and as a society

00:35:22.400 that we've moved beyond that

00:35:23.960 and realize how terrible that is.

00:35:26.880 But no one is interested

00:35:28.280 in nuance,

00:35:29.100 no one is interested

00:35:29.780 in context,

00:35:30.660 and no one is interested

00:35:31.640 in actually understanding

00:35:33.120 how history works.

00:35:34.920 I mean,

00:35:35.220 I'm sorry,

00:35:35.580 are we going to look at

00:35:36.940 the Acropolis in Greece

00:35:38.720 and say,

00:35:39.560 oh, we've got to tear down

00:35:40.260 the Acropolis

00:35:40.840 because it doesn't have 0.92

00:35:41.680 a transgender bathroom 0.77

00:35:42.700 because that's so important. 0.99

00:35:44.360 The Acropolis needed 0.98

00:35:45.260 a transgender bathroom 0.99

00:35:46.300 and how dare 1.00

00:35:46.920 those transphobic ancient Greeks 0.99

00:35:49.020 not put a transgender bathroom there 1.00

00:35:50.920 or the Colosseum 0.68

00:35:52.200 or the Eiffel Tower,

00:35:53.440 whatever the case may be.

00:35:54.600 I mean,

00:35:54.960 the absurdity

00:35:56.140 of trying to impose 2020

00:35:58.540 on periods in history

00:36:01.000 where the dynamics

00:36:02.560 and the battles

00:36:03.280 were so vastly different

00:36:04.680 than what they are today 0.93

00:36:05.620 is ridiculous. 0.90

00:36:06.680 But this is what's happening 0.95

00:36:07.840 and this is why

00:36:08.520 no one will ever survive

00:36:10.680 this scourge.

00:36:12.080 And John A. Macdonald,

00:36:13.500 who is a hero

00:36:14.680 in Canada's confederation,

00:36:16.320 without whom Canada 0.71

00:36:17.160 would not exist,

00:36:18.440 certainly not the Canada

00:36:19.380 we have today,

00:36:20.580 was actually progressive

00:36:22.380 for his era

00:36:23.820 on indigenous issues.

00:36:25.500 That's the great irony

00:36:26.440 of this all.

00:36:27.440 And that's not a positive irony.

00:36:29.340 It's actually quite sickening

00:36:30.440 that this guy's memory

00:36:32.340 is being vilified

00:36:33.420 despite being kind of

00:36:35.300 a positive force

00:36:36.800 at the time on that.

00:36:38.200 And now he's going to be gone

00:36:39.760 from most schools.

00:36:41.020 The curriculums themselves

00:36:42.380 will not focus on the greatness

00:36:43.800 of Macdonald's confederation experiment,

00:36:46.280 but will actually focus on

00:36:47.720 the sheer horror

00:36:48.720 that these people

00:36:49.480 were ever acknowledged

00:36:50.440 in history.

00:36:51.880 And in 50 years,

00:36:53.760 100 years,

00:36:54.520 all of the people

00:36:55.360 who are seen as progressive today

00:36:56.880 will be seen as regressive

00:36:58.440 by whichever generation

00:37:00.140 or movement comes next.

00:37:01.400 That is how history works.

00:37:04.420 So do I care about

00:37:06.120 what a school in Halifax

00:37:07.500 is named?

00:37:08.160 No.

00:37:08.560 I'm sure many of my listeners

00:37:09.540 in Atlantic Canada

00:37:10.460 might care.

00:37:11.480 I don't care about

00:37:12.220 the school names of it.

00:37:13.180 We could all just do

00:37:13.980 numbered schools

00:37:14.700 like they do in the U.S.

00:37:15.820 PS-1972

00:37:17.020 or something like that.

00:37:18.440 Or not PS-1867.

00:37:20.280 That one wouldn't work, clearly.

00:37:21.860 We can all do that,

00:37:22.820 but my concern here

00:37:24.300 is on the way

00:37:25.880 that we treat our country,

00:37:27.260 which is so central

00:37:28.260 to the way we view

00:37:29.380 our country

00:37:30.620 by virtue of

00:37:32.040 historical figures.

00:37:33.920 So if you are

00:37:34.920 not respecting

00:37:36.120 the country you live in,

00:37:37.140 you're not going to have

00:37:37.660 any respect for the people

00:37:38.700 who founded it,

00:37:39.720 and that's got to change.

00:37:40.720 We have to wrap things up here.

00:37:41.880 My thanks to all of you

00:37:42.920 for tuning into the program.

00:37:44.540 We'll talk to you next week

00:37:45.640 with more of

00:37:46.260 Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:37:48.480 Thank you,

00:37:48.960 God bless,

00:37:49.460 and good day to you all.

00:37:50.580 Thanks for listening

00:37:51.280 to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:37:52.460 Support the program

00:37:53.540 by donating to True North

00:37:54.760 at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - November 13, 2020

Dangling Christmas

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