Juno News - Danielle Smith LASHES OUT at Carney, Liberal MPs REVOLT over C-5

00:00:00.000 Hi, I'm Candace Malcolm and this is The Candace Malcolm Show. Folks, it looks like Bill C-5 is

00:00:08.080 going to sail through. It passed in the House of Commons. Now we're just waiting for it to get

00:00:13.140 passed by the Senate. We're going to dive into it a little bit, talk about the different groups

00:00:17.840 that are opposing it and why Premier Danielle Smith of Alberta has come out in favour of it,

00:00:24.200 in support of it. I'm very pleased today to be joined by one of my favourite guests here on

00:00:27.380 The Candace Malcolm Show. I'm talking about Brett Wilson. Brett is an investment banker,

00:00:30.860 an entrepreneur, a philanthropist. You probably recognise him from his days at the Dragon's

00:00:35.540 Den over at CBC. Brett, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us.

00:00:39.660 Pleasure to join always.

00:00:41.480 Okay, so yesterday we had a joint government caucus meeting between the UPC government in

00:00:47.560 Alberta and the Saskatchewan party in Saskatchewan. We had Danielle Smith, Alberta Premier and Scott

00:00:53.360 Moe, the Premier of Saskatchewan, do a joint press conference where they basically just

00:00:57.500 said, look, enough is enough. We've had a decade of absolute disaster from this Liberal government.

00:01:03.320 C-5 is a course change. It shows that the government under Mark Carney wants to head in

00:01:07.900 a different direction. And look, we'll take it. I'm going to play a couple of clips here

00:01:10.920 from Premier Danielle Smith. So here she is just basically saying the national self-sabotage

00:01:16.400 of environmentalism gone awry has to end. It has to end. And this is the change we need.

00:01:21.940 Let's play that first clip. I think we're here today as a united caucus because we've

00:01:26.200 decided that enough is enough. Development of provincial resources is provincial responsibility.

00:01:32.360 And that includes the development of our transmission and electricity grids. The national

00:01:37.700 self-sabotage that has happened over the last 10 years has to end.

00:01:42.100 And then next, Premier Danielle Smith goes on and she just talks about how she thinks that

00:01:47.080 C-5 signals that Mark Carney is doing publicly what he has said privately to her. And I believe

00:01:52.960 he's said things like this privately to you as well, Brett. But she's talking about how

00:01:57.340 he is going to very soon announce at least 20 substantial projects, including mining,

00:02:02.660 transmission projects, power projects, pipeline projects, which is exactly what Canadians have 0.74

00:02:07.700 been waiting for. We want these projects built. We want our economy to get jumpstarted.

00:02:11.680 We want young people to have jobs and opportunities and hope for the future. And we need an economy

00:02:16.820 that works. So let's play the second clip about how Smith says that C-5 provides the necessary

00:02:22.720 conditions to jumpstart our economy. Let's play the clip.

00:02:25.660 I would say Bill C-5 is a necessary condition to jumpstart the investment in our country, but it's not

00:02:33.000 going to be sufficient to change the investment climate overall in the long run. If I understand

00:02:39.520 where the prime minister is attempting to go is by if he very soon is able to announce a project list

00:02:45.980 that has 20 or more substantial projects on it that include mining projects and transmission projects

00:02:53.820 and power projects and pipeline projects. I think that would send a pretty big message to the world

00:03:00.980 about the direction that we're going. So, Brett, I'm wondering, like, is this the first step? Do you see

00:03:06.440 this as a course change for Canada and for the Liberal government? And what are your takeaways from

00:03:11.960 those clips from Premier Smith?

00:03:12.900 Well, first of all, I'm a believer that C-5 will make progress, but I think it's worth taking a step 1.00

00:03:19.020 back and noting that in the last three months, there hasn't been a Liberal anywhere mentioned the word or

00:03:26.900 name Trudeau. So they've clearly parked him in a cupboard. I think they deadbolted the cupboard.

00:03:34.760 They're not trying to kill a guy. I don't mean to be stupid about that, but they're taking him out of the picture

00:03:38.800 because for 10 years, he, with his leadership, undermined our country. He had misguided beliefs,

00:03:46.140 misguided delusional beliefs, and his cabinet aligned with him. And so now we've got Mark Carney

00:03:53.860 politely, respectfully acknowledging that we need to participate in the world economy. He still has

00:04:00.240 an overarching concern about the environment, and I'm still quite troubled that the new Liberal

00:04:07.640 government hasn't focused on the EV introduction or mandate for 2035. But come back to big picture,

00:04:15.200 they've closed the door on Trudeau and made it crystal clear they want to move forward.

00:04:19.760 In various private conversations that I've had directly and very much indirectly through other

00:04:25.700 people, it's pretty clear that they acknowledge and understand that if we try to punt, unwind,

00:04:31.600 reverse Bill C-69 or Bill C-48, that that could take five to 10 years. And now what they've done

00:04:39.000 with Bill C-5 is effectively discovered, and I'm careful with this word, I think it overrides,

00:04:46.380 bypasses, circumvents, overrules, Bill C-69 or C-60, whatever it is, C-69-48. It allows us to get

00:04:57.340 things done that are in the national interest. And I think that's what we keep hearing. And that's

00:05:01.740 what I respect the most. Pretty clearly, it was Pierre Paulev who laid the platform for everything

00:05:06.780 we're doing. And the Liberals almost joke about the fact that they use Pierre's oversight and overview

00:05:14.300 and plans, his policies. I mean, they can make fun of him now because he's not in the opposition.

00:05:19.260 He's not in the driver's seat yet, but he will be. But it goes back to big picture. Carney and Hodgson,

00:05:26.300 in particular, have made it crystal clear that they're not slowing down to look at 69 or 48.

00:05:32.780 They're using Bill C-5 to run. And I believe that they will. I mean, we can joke about the fact that

00:05:40.700 it's all talk, no action. Well, Tim Hodgson stood on stage a couple of weeks ago and said, look,

00:05:45.820 this isn't about talk. This is about action. Give me another week. He came to Calgary in his first

00:05:51.260 week in his career. Not once did a previous federal minister of resources show up to a room that was

00:06:00.300 filled in Calgary. Not once. Well, I, I tend to believe that, like, I agree with you that, that

00:06:07.660 the purpose of C-5 is they basically, you know, the new Kearney government came into office and said,

00:06:12.700 we have a huge mess that we created, we Liberals created. And some of the people who perpetrated

00:06:17.500 those laws, like Bill 669, are still in the room, are still at the table. We're talking about Stephane

00:06:21.580 Gilbeau, Chrysia Freeland, many of the other familiar cast of characters that are still there. Last time you

00:06:27.820 were on the show, you mentioned that people around Mark Carney, maybe Mark Carney himself,

00:06:32.460 said, look, don't pay too much attention to Stephane Gilbeau and these other cast of characters,

00:06:37.260 focus more on ministers, new people like Tim Hodgson. And so, you know, you mentioned that he

00:06:43.500 came and spoke to a room full of Calgarians, which I guess is a good first step. Do you think that that

00:06:49.980 really does signal to Canadians and to the world that Canada has changed and that we're now open for

00:06:55.580 business? Canada or Calgary and again, the business community I circulate with, and I do know a few

00:07:01.900 people having been here 34 years, there's a sense of optimism that we haven't had in a decade. And

00:07:09.740 again, we've got two people that I care about, Carney and Hodgson are saying, we plan to move forward.

00:07:15.660 And what are they doing? They're moving forward. I mean, they're actively engaging. We saw that,

00:07:20.140 we know that. Um, by the way, as I shared with you once before, I am not a fan of the, uh, I mean,

00:07:27.500 I don't mind the noise associated with separation, but it's, it's, it's rank. It's moving to stupid

00:07:35.660 is probably the best way of me describing it as people get radical in their, uh, in their commentary.

00:07:42.060 I've happened to believe that Alberta and Saskatchewan worked together. Guess what?

00:07:46.140 Moe and, Moe and Smith yesterday, Lloyd Minster working together. Guess what? Wob Canoe is reaching

00:07:53.100 out saying, I want to be part of this. That's Manitoba. EB is kind of getting overruled internally.

00:07:59.580 You can see the noise in terms of, is a pipeline going to get built across British Columbia or not?

00:08:05.420 And I mean, I think he pulled one of the stupidest stunts a Canadian Prime Minister or Premier could ever

00:08:10.620 do and Bob asking Asia, China to build ferries when it could have been built in North America.

00:08:16.940 But park that thought. EB is at least aiming to try. I'm personally heavily invested in the Yukon

00:08:23.820 and we're actively in conversation in the Yukon about the business I'm in, Whitehorse based,

00:08:29.580 is looking at moving into Prince Rupert. So there's going to be collaboration. Well,

00:08:35.420 wouldn't that be good for our country? I've made kind of, I've had a few conversations

00:08:40.700 about separation. The question I ask of the separatist movement is, do you want a wall

00:08:46.460 or a moat or paperwork? And they kind of go, well, we don't need a wall. We don't need a moat.

00:08:53.100 Oh, so we need paperwork. Well, guess what? Maybe that's what collaboration is about. Maybe that's

00:08:58.540 what Smith and Moe are working on right now. Maybe that's what Hodgson and Kearney have offered that

00:09:05.180 we will let us get paperwork. Do we have problems with our intergovernmental exchange and the, you

00:09:11.420 know, what we pay to the feds and et cetera, et cetera. Those are all, those are all issues of

00:09:16.140 certainly Alberta balanced, but of a national interest, but Alberta focused, not balanced.

00:09:22.540 I get frustrated by that noise, but the real, the great start, the great start. Again,

00:09:28.460 they've done two things. One is they stopped talking about the last guy. So anything he said

00:09:33.260 or did is gone. That's what allows the liberals to now move forward in a thoughtful, engaging way.

00:09:39.260 And when you have people like Hodgson, who's been a, he's been a frontline in the investment world

00:09:44.220 for 20 years. I overlapped with him on a file 20, 25 years ago.

00:09:47.900 He was a treat to work with, mutually respectful, easy to agree on. And we got deals done. And now

00:09:54.860 here we are. Let's do it again. Well, it is interesting that they've sort of completely

00:09:59.580 memory hold prime minister, Justin Trudeau, and you don't hear about him at all. In fact,

00:10:02.940 it was interesting at the G7, president Trump was talking about him and I thought, yeah, I haven't,

00:10:06.860 I haven't heard that name in Canadian politics in, in a little bit. So obviously the media has been

00:10:12.140 successful in helping that along. I want to just go back to, to bill C5 here because it did

00:10:17.500 pass. So the conservatives have supported it in the house. This is pretty rare that you have

00:10:23.100 conservative opposition supporting the liberals, right? The, the purpose of it, opposition is to

00:10:27.820 oppose. But I think that because like you said, the principles here were taken from Pierre Polyev.

00:10:33.260 It was Pierre Polyev's policy and strategy had he won the election that Carney sort of borrowed. So

00:10:38.540 it, it sort of sailed through, uh, parliament on Monday, pardon me, with, uh, conservatives and liberals

00:10:44.620 voting together. So it passed with 305 votes to just 30 opposed, which is interesting.

00:10:49.740 They block the NDP and the green all opposed it, but combined all three of those parties have only

00:10:55.580 have 30 votes nowadays because basically the Canadians of the left wing persuasion left those

00:11:01.580 parties to support the liberals. And so now it's passed through committees. It's just basically waiting

00:11:06.700 from the Senate. I want to talk a little bit about the pushback to this bill. I think, you know,

00:11:10.700 by and large conservatives have supported it, but I noticed in the Edmonton journal,

00:11:14.620 Lorne Gunter, who is a long time national columnist said this, he wrote conservatives must not support

00:11:20.140 Carney liberals bill C five power grab. And he really emphasized the fact that it does sort of override

00:11:26.300 or circumvent, uh, the words that you were trying to find the laws and that this is sort of slowly

00:11:30.780 chipping away at our parliamentary traditions. It's nothing but a naked power grab that enables

00:11:35.900 more power grabs. And, you know, we, we should all be very weary and cautious of Ottawa centric, um,

00:11:42.140 ability to just ram through things that other parts of the country might not want, you know,

00:11:46.380 in a different scenario, we wouldn't want that. I personally don't, I don't find this super convincing

00:11:50.940 because at this point, Brett, I just want stuff built. I just want to have the economy moving again.

00:11:56.940 And it seems to me that the government's always trying to grab power. Um, in some ways, you know,

00:12:02.780 doing it over the economy to get things built is better than, you know, the power grabs that they

00:12:06.700 try to do, for instance, over the pre-press or over the media. Um, this, this kind of stuff is common,

00:12:11.820 commonplace now in Ottawa. I'm just wondering, uh, what your thoughts are on this line of criticism?

00:12:17.180 Well, to, to build on a number of comments you made, first of all, the Bloc Quebecois are a regional

00:12:22.620 party. Why they're called and treated as a national party is slightly offensive to Canada. Number two,

00:12:29.420 NDP lost their mandate. They're gone. They're irrelevant. And the noise that's allowed out of

00:12:34.860 the green party, one person is irrelevant. So 30 people who didn't vote in favor, but the two

00:12:41.420 parties that generally collide, goes back to your first comment that the opposition's job is, is,

00:12:47.260 is again, the word oppose is correct, but it's more than that. It's to try and challenge mistakes

00:12:53.980 and do what's right for the country in the opinion of other people. Well, the beauty of this situation

00:12:59.980 is the Kearney and Hodgson and ignore all the rest have aligned with the thinking that building things

00:13:06.620 is better than canceling things, postponing things, shutting things down. Um, I've spoken with a

00:13:13.740 first nation leader in, uh, view in the, in BC, Northeast BC, Northwest BC. He is a hundred percent aligned

00:13:21.260 and is certain that the first nations, if sat and talked to, and again, not the, not the elected

00:13:27.820 leaders, not the hereditary leaders, but if the elected leaders are sat and talked to, there's deals

00:13:33.260 to be done. There's so much to do. And that's EB will have trouble bypassing or overriding if he,

00:13:40.540 he'll try, but he's going to have trouble overriding the first nations. So again, once again, if we

00:13:45.180 collaborate as Western Canada, it's good for Canada, it's good for the West. So C5, what's interesting

00:13:53.020 there, and you're absolutely right that there's a, an appearance that it has greater control than we

00:13:59.020 would ultimately like a government to have. But first things first, let's get some things built.

00:14:04.700 And, uh, at that point, let the opposition raise the flag. If the liberals attempt to take too much

00:14:11.260 control of what we're doing. Okay. I have a couple of, uh, other examples of the, in this case, MPs

00:14:18.940 speaking out against this bill, not who you would expect. Uh, I'm talking about liberal members of

00:14:24.140 parliament who oppose Mark Carney and what he's doing. So first here is a clip of liberal MP,

00:14:28.860 Nathaniel Irkside Smith saying that bill C5 threatens Canadian democracy and it shuts down democratic debate.

00:14:36.620 Uh, very much echoing the, the points made in Lauren Gunter's column. I just want to

00:14:41.100 make this point, right? If a conservative MP was speaking out against a conservative bill saying

00:14:45.740 it threatens democracy, it would be a huge national story. And the CBC would be playing it up. Look

00:14:50.620 at the division, look at, you know, the, the parties, the weak leader can't control his caucus

00:14:55.500 parties in revolt, right? Um, and liberals do it and it barely even gets coverage. Uh, but here is a

00:15:01.820 liberal MP accusing Mark Carney's bill of undermining democracy. Let's play that clip.

00:15:07.260 This federal government is proposing to shut down democratic debate, curtail committee scrutiny,

00:15:12.700 and jam the bill through the legislature. It would all actually make Harper blush. Liberals would 1.00

00:15:18.540 rightly scream that we would scream if a federal conservative government attempted the same.

00:15:24.140 I just want to make this point that that that's almost line for line what Althea Raj wrote in the

00:15:28.300 Toronto star like a week ago. So either Smith there is getting his lines from Althea Raj or vice versa, but,

00:15:33.500 uh, basically mirroring the image that it would make Stephen Harper blush to put forth an omnibus

00:15:37.980 bill like this. Uh, next we have Karina Gould, who you remember she ran for leader of this party. 0.99

00:15:42.620 She's seen as sort of one of the young leaders of the party and she likewise told reporters that there

00:15:47.420 is a duty and an obligation to ensure that indigenous rights are upheld in the process.

00:15:52.140 And she doesn't think that that's happening with this bill. Let's play that clip, please.

00:15:55.260 There is a clear desire on the part of Canadians to be able to get big projects done

00:16:00.620 in this country. We haven't been able to find the right balance in a, in order to do that.

00:16:04.780 There is a duty and an obligation to ensure that indigenous rights holders are part of this process.

00:16:13.100 So again, if it were conservative MPs that were speaking out against their leader and saying that

00:16:17.900 we failed to get it done, we didn't do what we need to do democratically, it would be a huge

00:16:21.900 national story. It would dominate. And when it's happening to the liberal spread, barely, barely even,

00:16:26.380 uh, of note. And I'm, I'm just wondering what your take is of these liberal MPs sort of on the left

00:16:32.220 side of the party, even, um, speaking out against their government's bill.

00:16:38.220 Well, in watching her ramble, I could sense that she was itching to say under Trudeau, this is what

00:16:47.580 we did, but she couldn't, wouldn't. And again, she'd lose her job if she started to miss a line. It's one

00:16:54.220 thing to challenge the, uh, the bill and make sure that first nations are respected, but I'm not

00:16:59.820 aware of anything that's happening where we're saying, let's just override the first nations.

00:17:04.780 The goal is to override all the pause buttons, all the stop buttons and get to the negotiating table

00:17:12.140 immediately. And that goes back to their comments. It's going to take a couple of years. We don't just

00:17:16.700 announce that we're building a pipeline. We don't just announce that there's a new LNG plant. We don't

00:17:21.500 just announce that there's a new uranium mine. There's still approvals and process. And I don't

00:17:26.860 sense that there's any desire on the part of the liberals to try and bypass the respect that's

00:17:31.820 required for the first nations. Now there's a lot of confusion within the first nations. I know a

00:17:36.780 number of leaders. Again, there's 650 unique first nations. Do they all agree on anything? No. So that's

00:17:44.460 part of the negotiating challenge that's put on the table, but I don't buy her position that the

00:17:49.660 bill C-5 is intended to override or overrule or demean or diminish the role of first nations in

00:17:55.820 our great country. Well, you're right. It's such a, the way that the media often speaks about first

00:18:00.220 nations and particularly people on the left, they talk about it like it's a monolith and that they

00:18:03.980 all disapprove of resource development when to your point, you know, there's so many great chiefs out

00:18:09.100 there that are the ones advocating because they want the resources for their young men to have work

00:18:14.060 for their reserves to have more funds and more resources. But, but to that point, there's a CBC

00:18:19.980 story that came out yesterday. The headline says first nations urged the governor general to delay

00:18:25.260 or even reject bill C-5. I'm going to read a little bit from this. Some first nations leaders say bill

00:18:30.460 C-5 shouldn't pass until governor general, Mary Simon, the first indigenous person to be appointed

00:18:35.260 to that role addresses their concerns. She is the crown representative and I think she should be

00:18:39.580 involved, said one first nations leader. I'm hoping she's paying attention to what's happening here

00:18:44.300 so she can be thinking about intervening. Wow. You know, getting the governor general to intervene

00:18:49.340 about, I don't know if this ever happened. Finally, it says the process that led to Bill C-5 is a case

00:18:54.620 study in how not to engage with indigenous nations, said one chief, adding that there is no meaningful

00:19:00.140 engagement or recognition of the complexity of rights, titles, and interests. I just need to make the

00:19:04.540 point that Bill C-5 doesn't actually promote any one specific project, right? It's just changing the

00:19:10.300 groundwork saying that there are some very, you know, overzealous environmental rules that if there's

00:19:16.060 something of national importance, it should be able to override it, which is well within the rights of

00:19:19.660 the prime minister and of the government. And now if there is one of those individual projects that

00:19:24.620 first nations have a major problem with or one or two chiefs, then we can talk about that at the time,

00:19:30.140 right? But this is just providing the framework. So this all just seems really,

00:19:33.420 really overblown hyperbolic asking the king, basically the governor general to step in and stop.

00:19:39.660 I mean, I mean, talk about undemocratic, right? Like that to me is just a wild suggestion. What do you

00:19:44.380 make of it? Well, clearly someone in the first nations leadership is looking at Mary Simon,

00:19:50.300 Governor Simon, Governor General Simon as a first nation leader. And she is, but that's not her role.

00:19:56.060 She's not there to represent first nations. She's there to act on behalf of the king,

00:20:00.860 representing all Canadians in that conversation. So she's not ever, in my opinion, going to be

00:20:06.860 entitled to even have an intervening role. I'm, I'm involved right now with permitting a coal mine.

00:20:13.420 Not many people can say that, but it's an underground coal mine. It's metallurgical coal

00:20:19.420 used to make steel, which is the essence of how we grow our world, our country.

00:20:25.100 We had two first nations that are regional, approach us, look for a deal. They got a deal.

00:20:31.820 We have royalties, we have work, we have respectful mutual commitments to the project.

00:20:38.140 Then all of a sudden, two eco justice and that type of party intervened, attempt to intervene. And they

00:20:45.100 dragged through a lawyer in Vancouver, four other first nations in Alberta to complain for the sole

00:20:51.900 purpose of also getting paid while we do this underground mine. Those first nations are all

00:20:57.180 250 to 500 kilometers away from the mine. So my point is, and I mean this politely and respectfully,

00:21:04.620 the first nations aren't organized. And to think that some of their leaders pretend that they have the

00:21:10.620 say and the voice of all 600 and roughly 50 first nations is misleading. And in fact,

00:21:17.260 I'd call it a lie. We work collaboratively. I do a lot of work from the Yukon. I mean,

00:21:22.060 my business investment in the Yukon, I'm the second largest investor, but the first nations as a group

00:21:27.260 own 60, roughly 55%, 60% of the company. We work collaboratively all the time. Everyone's at the

00:21:34.620 table. We arm wrestle. We negotiate. We don't always agree and that's okay. But this idea

00:21:40.300 that we now have to have again, effectively first nations intervention on every project in the world.

00:21:46.860 No involvement. Yes.

00:21:50.700 Well, that's certainly the type of thinking that got us into this problem where we can't seem to

00:21:55.340 build anything is because in some ways we're too collaborative. We wanted to hear from too many

00:21:59.420 people at a certain point, you just have to get things done to benefit the entire country, right?

00:22:04.460 So you can't have the governor general stepping in for one special interest group to, when it harms

00:22:10.060 objectively 95% of the country. It's really important to emphasize that Hodgson and Kearney

00:22:16.380 are talking a two year window. That's what they want to use to get projects going. And again,

00:22:22.860 we're not going to approve anything in the first week, but I think the idea of having projects on

00:22:26.940 the table and ready to approve at every level, they're going to accelerate the process. And it's a,

00:22:32.940 it's a real treat listening to them. Am I still voting conservative? Yeah, absolutely. Am I a fan of what

00:22:38.780 Pellev forced the liberals to do? Absolutely. But here we are, let's get rolling.

00:22:44.060 Well, I tend to agree. I will be cautiously optimistic with Mark Kearney because of course,

00:22:49.260 you know, he's still part of the party that promoted the agenda that has destroyed our country.

00:22:54.060 And, uh, you know, he, he wrote the book Values where he really spelt out the environmental vision

00:22:59.580 for the world that we're all still suffering under. So, uh, you know, actions speak louder than words.

00:23:03.980 So hopefully, uh, we'll see some real change here. Brett, uh, thanks for your insights. It's always

00:23:08.460 so, uh, interesting to talk to you and hear your thoughts. Uh, thanks for joining us today.

00:23:11.980 Appreciate your opportunity. Thanks, Candace.

00:23:13.580 This is Brett Wilson and I'm Candace Malcolm. That's all the time we have for today, folks.

00:23:17.020 We'll be back again tomorrow. Thank you and God bless.

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Juno News - June 20, 2025

Danielle Smith LASHES OUT at Carney, Liberal MPs REVOLT over C-5

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