Juno News - Danielle Smith on transgender policies, Alberta energy, and Justin Trudeau

00:00:00.000 You're tuned in to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:00:08.660 Sitting at the Albany Club, the mainstay of the Canadian conservative movement with Alberta Premier Danielle Smith.

00:00:15.460 Premier, always good to talk to you. Thank you so much for joining me today.

00:00:18.700 My pleasure.

00:00:19.220 So how do you feel being in Ontario, first and foremost?

00:00:21.520 I know you haven't gotten the warmest welcome as we'll talk about from some folks.

00:00:24.840 You know, I've had a really warm welcome. It's been amazing.

00:00:27.860 I had some great meetings with the minister as well as the opposition members.

00:00:32.920 I also had a chance to speak to the Economic Club of Canada.

00:00:37.460 And I'll be doing another speech this evening.

00:00:40.340 And, you know, my message is the reason I'm on the road is to tell people that Alberta is open for business.

00:00:45.780 Alberta wants to be part of a strong and united Canada.

00:00:48.320 When Alberta does well, Canada does well.

00:00:50.580 And we just need to get the federal government out of our way so that we can continue to invest in our economy.

00:00:55.540 So I think people are liking that message and I'm hoping to see more investment in Alberta as a result.

00:01:00.660 Well, we'll certainly get to that in a few moments.

00:01:02.980 But I want to begin starting off really about the announcement that you made a little over a week ago on a suite of policies related to gender and health care for transgender individuals,

00:01:14.440 the way they're treated in the education system and in sports.

00:01:17.720 You packed a lot into that.

00:01:19.180 And I wonder if I can kind of offer a question here about why it took so long when we saw similar moves in Saskatchewan and New Brunswick.

00:01:27.880 What was it that made now the moment and not months ago when people were pushing your government to have an answer to these questions?

00:01:34.400 Well, I've been watching this unfold over the last number of years.

00:01:37.580 And I've also paid attention as we've seen lawsuits that have generated not just here but around the world.

00:01:47.420 We've watched as the policy that really began in the approach that started in the Netherlands started getting rolled back in some of the Nordic and progressive nations in Europe.

00:01:57.520 And then, of course, the UK in particular, which made a pretty dramatic move to schedule the shutdown of their gender identity clinic, Tavistock, as a result of a lawsuit.

00:02:08.520 So I was watching this and seeing as well locally there was a young transgender woman who felt pushed into, rushed into making a decision prematurely and has had ongoing health issues as a result of that.

00:02:21.940 So as I looked at this window of the range of debate on it, I wanted to see if we could find a balance.

00:02:31.520 We know that transgender adults need better support in their medical decisions.

00:02:36.120 There's a lot of aftercare that has to happen because of surgery.

00:02:39.160 There's lifetime hormonal treatment and managing some of the side effects that has to occur.

00:02:43.780 So we want to make sure that they have access to the care that they need.

00:02:46.560 But then we have to talk about when is it that a child should be making these decisions that in some cases are irreversible.

00:02:53.620 So we believe that these are adult decisions to be made as adults.

00:02:58.060 So no surgery until 18 and over and no cross sex hormones as well until 16 and older.

00:03:05.840 We think 16 is kind of the age where kids now begin to understand the consequences of what it is that they're choosing.

00:03:11.860 And we want to make sure that there's a pathway to keep families informed along the way and involved along the way.

00:03:17.360 So that was the approach we wanted to take.

00:03:19.060 You put forward in your announcement video what I and a lot of people have lauded as being a very compassionate message, a very balanced and nuanced message.

00:03:29.720 But you fast forward to today, and I don't know how much of it people watching this interview can hear, but you've got protesters outside that have been chanting some pretty vile things inexplicably about Palestine, too, which I don't know if Alberta has a skin in the game on that foreign policy debate.

00:03:45.600 But you had the same thing in Ottawa, a lot of protesters here.

00:03:49.320 And you also, from the federal Liberal government, had some, I think, very torqued rhetoric in response to this.

00:03:55.840 Randy Boissoneau, an Alberta Member of Parliament for the Liberals, said this was the NATO moment.

00:04:01.040 So do you think there's truth to the criticism you've had from some of your supporters that you're trying to find a compromise with people that aren't willing to compromise?

00:04:08.840 Look, I know that there is not uniformity of opinion in the medical profession.

00:04:13.680 There's not uniformity of opinion in the LGBT plus community either.

00:04:17.600 And as a result, I consulted broadly to try to get a suite of proposals that I thought were going to be very reasonable.

00:04:25.980 I think the rhetoric and the way in which the protesters are reacting is, it's not helpful.

00:04:32.420 They're not being truthful about what it is that I'm proposing because I'm very supportive of allowing and helping a person become who they want to be, whatever that pathway is.

00:04:42.420 What I think we have to be mindful of as adults is that kids don't necessarily have the full context of what it means if they're making decisions for sterilization, what it means if they're making decisions for cross-sex hormones that create permanent changes.

00:04:57.140 And until they are old enough to understand the ramifications of those, we think we have to be very cautious, give them support, give them mental health treatment, give them counseling to make sure that they can develop the comfort level so that they can make that decision.

00:05:13.240 But don't make that decision prematurely.

00:05:15.400 That's what we're concerned about because I've read many stories of regret, of people feeling like they got rushed, people feeling they made the decision prematurely, people detransitioning.

00:05:25.140 And we shouldn't be in that situation.

00:05:28.460 I don't want any person going through this feeling like they made a mistake.

00:05:32.520 We want to make sure that every person who makes this decision is confident and happy with their choice and that we're supporting them.

00:05:37.560 So that's part of the reason for the caution.

00:05:39.640 On polling we've seen on this, parents' rights specifically, not some of the other aspects of this, there is massive support.

00:05:46.560 It cuts across religious groups.

00:05:48.080 It cuts across political groups.

00:05:49.740 This is not purely a social conservative issue.

00:05:52.280 I know you've never really identified as a social conservative specifically, but it does touch on some of these issues that are claimed by these groups.

00:05:59.900 And one issue that's come up in the last few days is people saying, well, if you're requiring parental consent for gender transition, why not parental consent for abortion as well?

00:06:09.500 I would say people want to know what's going on with their kids.

00:06:12.460 That's the reason why.

00:06:13.800 And this is a long transition process.

00:06:16.560 It begins with the renaming and the adoption of pronouns, moves on to puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones, and then ultimately ends up in surgery and a complete transition.

00:06:27.940 And families need to be involved in every step of that process.

00:06:31.540 These are lifelong changes that a child is making.

00:06:34.400 And so we want to make sure that the changes that they're making are ones that they can live with.

00:06:38.760 On the other issue, as you know, I'm for choice, and I do believe as well, similarly, having a child is a lifelong decision.

00:06:48.320 And it's one that the parent is the one, principally, who should be making that decision, and the parent is the one who is having the child.

00:06:55.060 So I think we have to make sure that young people are not abused, and that that's not the reason.

00:07:02.360 Sexual abuse is not the reason for why it is that they find themselves pregnant. 0.80

00:07:07.080 But I would leave that to the child to make sure that they're making a decision that they can live with.

00:07:13.660 Are you concerned about the federal government trying to involve itself in some way?

00:07:18.100 Are there mechanisms the federal government even has available?

00:07:20.480 Because they've clearly decided this is a policy they take great issue with, that you're advancing in Alberta.

00:07:25.500 Well, I think, again, part of the reason for my caution and delay is I'd really hoped that we could depoliticize this.

00:07:34.320 There are serious concerns.

00:07:35.660 Hasn't really worked out, has it?

00:07:37.080 You know, there are serious, it hasn't, and I think that's a shame because I'm trying to be quite measured in the approach that I'm taking.

00:07:46.380 I have transgender friends.

00:07:49.120 I have transgender staff.

00:07:51.640 I have a transgender family member.

00:07:53.980 I have spent a lot of time trying to understand how this community feels and what their needs are.

00:07:59.160 But I also know that there are a handful of people who have regret, and that has me very concerned.

00:08:07.500 I've mentioned before Lois Cardinal.

00:08:09.300 I mean, her story stays with me.

00:08:10.840 And because she ultimately went to a point where she wanted to seek medical assistance in dying because of the complications that happened after her surgery 14 years later.

00:08:20.380 We've got to address those health needs. 0.92

00:08:22.680 We've got to make sure that people like Lois feel supported.

00:08:27.160 So I think it's being mischaracterized.

00:08:29.880 So I think that people will see that the measures that we put in place that allow for us to attract more doctors who can do the surgical aftercare, who can give that long-term life care, I think people will see that we're actually going to be very supportive of the trans community.

00:08:44.300 I wanted to turn to what you started off talking about, which is the relationship between Alberta and Ottawa.

00:08:50.340 This week you opened up, or reopened, I should say, it's been closed for quite some time, Alberta's representative office in Ottawa.

00:08:57.100 And I'm curious where you think this relationship can go, because I know you and your minister, Rebecca Schultz, have had very harsh words for Stephen Gilbeau in particular, and I won't pretend for a moment they haven't been undeserved.

00:09:09.360 But is it a relationship that can be fixed, and what would that look like?

00:09:13.720 Not with Stephen Gilbeau.

00:09:15.280 I mean, he's an ideologue.

00:09:15.940 But with Justin Trudeau.

00:09:16.600 I mean, is he the problem, or is the government itself the problem?

00:09:19.560 It's tough for me to tell, because there are some ministers that he's put in place who I have a very constructive relationship with, ones who are just as excited about some of the investments we're making in our province as I am, whether it's the Dow petrochemical project that's net zero, or air products, net zero hydrogen, or Heidelberg, and their plan for net zero cement, or even de Havilland and their aviation project.

00:09:41.920 The federal government has partnered with us on making sure those got to the finish line.

00:09:45.320 And so I know that there are ministers in that government who want to see Alberta do well.

00:09:50.600 It's just so baffling then why Stephen Gilbeau is allowed to act like a renegade and just freelance on policy after policy after policy that works against that end, that would essentially shut down our industry.

00:10:04.060 Not only damaging us, but damaging themselves.

00:10:06.620 That's the thing that's baffling to me, is when Alberta does well, because the federal government has a higher corporate income tax, higher personal income taxes, higher taxes generally across the board, they do very well off the revenues generated in Alberta that then go to fund the programs that they support across the country.

00:10:24.600 So this has been one of the frustrations of our province, is that we are contributors to Confederation, and we're happy to be wealth creators, but the ingratitude that we often see from the federal government is almost like, well, we want to crush your economy, but keep the money coming.

00:10:41.160 It doesn't work that way.

00:10:42.480 If they want us to be contributing members to Confederation and to help out, then they've got to allow us to be able to develop our own wealth.

00:10:49.420 Yeah, and I think that's the one area that's always been tremendously inconsistent.

00:10:53.600 I mean, Quebec is a notable example of this.

00:10:55.260 They spare no effort in cashing checks from Alberta, but when it comes to developing the resource sector in Canada, they've been blocking it.

00:11:03.060 And I know you've had positive things to say about your discussions with Premier Legault in the past, but is there a way to break through when you have premiers that are being very resistant to development?

00:11:13.900 I mean, British Columbia has always been a sticking point for getting Alberta oil to market, but Quebec as well.

00:11:19.580 Look, natural gas is a transition fuel.

00:11:22.800 Canada signed on to COP and the final communique, and it says right in there that natural gas is a transition fuel.

00:11:29.120 Yeah, the war was supposed to be on coal, not on oil and gas.

00:11:32.360 So let's act as if we're going to live up to the commitment that we made and provide natural gas, not only to the rest of the country, but also to the world.

00:11:39.120 I mean, Quebec has enormous natural gas resources.

00:11:42.120 They would be able to develop carbon capture utilization and storage technology, develop hydrogen, develop ammonia, and be able to support our international trading partners.

00:11:50.760 They can do that too.

00:11:52.060 They're suffering from constriction in their electricity grid as well.

00:11:56.540 I mean, they're at the peak of their energy with the hydro development that they have.

00:12:01.580 It's not going to be any easier to get hydroelectric development done today.

00:12:05.180 There's impact on the land, on biodiversity, on First Nations rights.

00:12:08.940 And so I think there has to be a bit of a reality check in Quebec, and there has to be a reality check at the federal level.

00:12:15.320 In Europe, they've embraced the idea that natural gas is a transition fuel so that we're able to bring everybody up to a level of wealth and prosperity so that we can address the issue of energy poverty, which is a very serious global issue.

00:12:29.400 And I just feel like if you're going to sign an agreement agreeing to those principles, then agree to all the principles.

00:12:35.840 And I would like to see Quebec and Canada do that.

00:12:39.420 I know your government sent quite a large delegation to the most recent COP conference, and I presume, without getting you to commit to anything, that that will happen in the future.

00:12:47.160 I'll commit to it.

00:12:47.760 I'm going to Azerbaijan, and I am going to Brazil as well.

00:12:50.580 There's no way I can have Stephen Guibault.

00:12:52.500 As long as he is environment minister, and I've called for him to be fired, and I stand by that, as long as he is environment minister, I will have to go to those conferences because he cannot represent Alberta's interests on the international stage.

00:13:04.180 So you kind of answered the question I was going to ask, which was whether you are able to or trying to do an end run around the federal government.

00:13:10.900 But is that what it's had to come to now, that provinces have to basically have their own diplomatic corps, basically, to start representing Canada's interests at the East Bora?

00:13:20.280 There's no question we have to.

00:13:21.460 I mean, it's part and parcel of why we're represented now in Ottawa.

00:13:24.380 Quebec is represented in Ottawa.

00:13:26.520 They have an office there, and I find that very interesting, being that most of the civil service is from Quebec, and that they're right across the river in Hull, and yet they felt a need to be able to have a diplomatic office in Ottawa.

00:13:36.400 Well, if they're there, then we should be there too.

00:13:38.700 They're internationally at more international offices as well.

00:13:42.500 Internationally, they also go to all of these conferences.

00:13:44.900 And internationally, they also sign on to subnational agreements that are hostile to our interests.

00:13:49.760 So my view is that there are a lot of energy-producing nations in the world and subnational governments that want to do the right thing, that want to find ways to share technology, use carbon capture utilization and storage, develop hydrogen, develop ammonia, and increasingly in Alberta, look at things like geothermal and brine lithium as a way of taking our current resource and using and developing it in a different way.

00:14:14.840 And we want to share that technology.

00:14:16.640 So I want to assist in bringing the subnational and national governments together who are energy producers so that we can share that technology.

00:14:24.280 And I think that the COP meetings are the perfect place to do that.

00:14:27.480 So I think that you'll see a much stronger presence of Alberta in the future.

00:14:32.580 I know it's very easy for Albertans who voted against the Liberals in the vast majority of the province in the last federal election to find a foe in the Liberal government right now.

00:14:42.440 And I think that probably makes your job easier in a way because you can kind of point to Ottawa and this government.

00:14:47.060 But Alberta has not always had great success historically with conservative governments federally.

00:14:51.760 I think of the Brian Mulroney years, which were perhaps preferable to Pierre Trudeau, but not by much to a lot of people.

00:14:56.840 And I'm curious, not to force you back into your previous role as a political accommodator, but I'm curious what your sense is from what Pierre Polyev has said to you, either privately or what he said publicly, about what a change in that direction would mean for Alberta.

00:15:13.660 Would it make a lot of the issues that you have with Ottawa go away?

00:15:16.780 Or are there still some grave concerns you'd have that are general, regardless of who's in power federally?

00:15:21.120 One of the things I find that Pierre Polyev says a lot is, let the province run provincial jurisdiction.

00:15:27.580 Let the province run the hospital.

00:15:29.140 Let the province run the school system.

00:15:32.240 Focus on the things that the federal government should be focused on.

00:15:35.420 They've got a big job to do.

00:15:36.800 They have to express who we are on the international stage in international trade and foreign aid in national defense.

00:15:45.360 They have to develop immigration policy.

00:15:47.980 They have to manage our money supply and the value of our dollar.

00:15:53.880 These are all a justice system.

00:15:56.560 There's a lot that the federal government has to do, but they're not doing particularly well.

00:16:01.160 So rather than trying to tell me how to run my business, I think they should focus on running their own business.

00:16:05.480 And I get the very strong sense that Pierre understands just how much there is to fix at the federal level.

00:16:11.320 He has no interest in micromanaging the provinces.

00:16:14.340 I think we'll find lots of areas of collaboration.

00:16:16.440 So if there's a change of government, I think it will be very good for Alberta.

00:16:21.340 Premier, thank you.

00:16:22.280 My pleasure.

00:16:22.920 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:16:25.340 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - February 09, 2024

Danielle Smith on transgender policies, Alberta energy, and Justin Trudeau

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