Juno News - Danielle Smith puts Carney’s “nation-building” office to the test

00:00:00.000 Welcome to The Candice Malcolm Show. My name is Chris Sims. I'm the Alberta Director for the

00:00:07.800 Canadian Taxpayers Federation, sitting in Candice's chair for today's show. Thank you so much for

00:00:13.000 making us a part of your day. As always, be sure to like this video and subscribe to the channel

00:00:18.000 and share it with your friends. We have got an outstanding show for you today. I'm really

00:00:23.120 looking forward to it. And oh my goodness, did the pipeline fight just get stepped up? Okay,

00:00:30.440 so here's what's happening. We all know that Alberta Premier Daniel Smith has been fighting

00:00:35.340 like a badger, okay, to get some of these federal laws repealed, which are strangling Alberta's

00:00:42.620 oil and gas sector, our natural resources here in Alberta. So she's been saying, hey man,

00:00:48.000 you got to get rid of Bill C-69, which is typically known as the No More Pipelines Act.

00:00:52.600 You have to get rid of the energy cap on our oil and gas production. Ottawa tries to call it an

00:00:59.100 emissions cap. It's a production cap. Even the PBO says this is going to blow like tens of billions

00:01:04.020 of dollars out of our economy. So get rid of that. You have to get rid of the West Coast tanker ban.

00:01:09.500 Basically, give us access and the ability to sell our stuff on the world market. Take your boot

00:01:16.020 off our neck. So she's been saying so firmly but politely for a long time. This was really

00:01:24.300 interesting what she just did yesterday. So remember when Prime Minister Mark Carney made this big

00:01:30.220 announcement of this like nation building office? Okay, that sounded really neat. He was talking about

00:01:37.720 fast tracking approvals for things like pipelines and for things like, frankly, mines in northern

00:01:45.480 Ontario in this so-called ring of fire, which is full of minerals and elements that are super valuable

00:01:52.280 and would help the entire Canadian economy. So it was the nation building office. The problem with

00:01:58.720 government is that they're really good at setting up panels and committees and new offices and slapping a

00:02:05.520 new label on their lectern. But they're not so good on actually doing stuff. In Carney's case,

00:02:12.520 all he needs to do is get out of the way. He just needs to repeal those laws I just mentioned.

00:02:17.680 But something interesting happened yesterday. Alberta Premier Daniel Smith said, okay, so there's

00:02:25.060 no private company. Okay, there's no private oil company or pipeline company that is stepping up to

00:02:30.840 the podium right now saying, I'm willing to risk my investors money on this project. Okay, I'm going

00:02:37.680 to trust Ottawa again, even though they betrayed our trust for 10 straight years. Kind of hard to blame

00:02:44.000 them for that, because they're not super enthusiastic about losing money. So Smith looked around and she

00:02:50.180 said, okay, what if Alberta, the province is the applicant? What if Alberta, the province is the one

00:02:59.820 that is saying to this brand new nation building federal office of speedy approvals? Okay, approve this.

00:03:08.740 So she made her announcement yesterday. Listen to this.

00:03:13.080 I will continue, as I said, to build the coalition of partners who are going to be on board with this. But

00:03:20.460 this is a Canada project. And this is a test of whether Canada works as a country. Because if we

00:03:27.880 can't build with collaboration of the federal government and between provinces, if it's everybody

00:03:33.720 gets to get their products going to market except Alberta, that's not a country. A country is one where we

00:03:38.380 support each other. Do you hear that? The key part of what she just said there was, this is a test.

00:03:46.480 Yes, it is. Because what's Mark Carney going to do when Alberta files all of its paperwork and starts

00:03:54.280 speaking with First Nations along the proposed pipeline route? Basically, what the Alberta government

00:03:59.620 is doing here is saying, you know, all those hoops you have to jump through and red tape and regulations

00:04:06.360 and forms you have to fill out, all of the busy work of government will do that. Frankly, that's what

00:04:13.200 provinces do anyway. Whenever they're challenging something Ottawa is doing that's stupid in their 0.99

00:04:18.820 view, they have to go through these processes anyway. So to be fair, they are spending taxpayers' money 0.95

00:04:25.140 on this process. I think it's about $14 million with an M. I was nervous about hearing about this at

00:04:32.920 first because I was like, what are you doing? We don't want taxpayers on the hook for building a

00:04:37.940 pipeline. Smith, to be clear, said that's not what we're doing. Taxpayers are not going to be on the

00:04:43.980 hook for building a pipeline because we've experienced that before with Kinder Morgan that walked away,

00:04:50.260 and now we have Trans Mountain built at like $30 billion bill for taxpayers. So very interesting chess move

00:04:59.500 here. We have to wait and see what Carney's going to do. But first, hey, wait a minute. There's a guy

00:05:04.600 that's a lot closer than Carney. What's British Columbia Premier David Eby saying before we roll

00:05:10.320 the tape? Remember that during the election, there was a whole different tone change coming out of

00:05:17.200 British Columbia. It's like, oh, you know, we could be open to nation building projects. Oh, this could be

00:05:22.460 a maybe. It was definitely a tone change. Don't know why he said all that stuff, because listen to

00:05:27.740 this. To put that Tanker Bannett threat, it's not just a threat to our pristine coast that so many British 1.00

00:05:33.820 Colombians, including myself, value. But it is a direct economic threat to the kind of economy that we're

00:05:39.640 trying to build in the country here. And so when I've said let's cross that bridge, when we come to it, you know,

00:05:45.900 we'll see what the Premier comes up with. I'm being polite. I am being polite. There is no project.

00:05:53.800 There is no bridge to cross unless the Albertan government and the federal Canadian government

00:05:59.260 are committing billions of taxpayer dollars to build this project. And if that is the plan,

00:06:05.100 then they should be transparent about it. Don't mistake my politeness

00:06:09.920 for weakness on protecting our economy and our coast.

00:06:17.660 Okay. A few things here. I'm going to be polite. Okay. Protecting our economy.

00:06:26.420 The NDP government in British Columbia, which has been in power since 2017, has doubled,

00:06:34.420 more than doubled the provincial debt of British Columbia. Their debt is costing British Columbians

00:06:42.560 more than $5 billion this year just on the interest payments on that thing. So he shouldn't say the word

00:06:53.360 economy and protection in the same sentence unless he's going to do a full-scale change.

00:06:59.560 On the issue of the pristine coast. Okay. I grew up in British Columbia. I grew up on the west coast.

00:07:07.400 I have literally swum with salmon and hugged trees on Vancouver Island. So I get it.

00:07:15.300 But what exactly does he mean by shipping off of the pristine BC coast?

00:07:20.620 Just in case people don't know, Vancouver and Surrey and just south in Delta, where you see the Tawassan

00:07:29.520 Ferry go across to Victoria all the time, there's a whole lot of stuff being shipped out of that port

00:07:35.360 every single day. All sorts of things that would, God forbid, if there was a spill, would cause a major

00:07:43.400 environmental problem. That is what happens in a busy port city and a busy economy.

00:07:48.240 Now, there are precautions that can be taken. I'm hearing from people that are saying that there

00:07:53.600 can be double-hulled ships, that there can be spotters that go ahead of the ships, the barges

00:07:58.360 and the tankers with smaller ships, warning whales, all this stuff. Okay. I will also gently point out

00:08:04.380 BC ferries crosses that straight all the time. Collisions with wildlife do happen and it's super

00:08:11.600 upsetting, but they don't shut down BC ferries. Maybe I shouldn't give them ideas. Okay. So we've covered

00:08:17.700 off what Premier Smith is saying. So she's ready to rumble. I find it really interesting that she called

00:08:23.380 this a test. So we'll have to wait and see. We've seen what David Eby is saying. Sounds like he's not in

00:08:30.340 favor of having what would essentially be like the Northern Gateway pipeline, if people remember that, and

00:08:35.840 having tankers of oil and gas product coming out of the Northern BC area. So we've heard from them. What about the

00:08:43.480 Feds? Well, we haven't heard from Prime Minister Mark Carney in a direct response yet, but opposition

00:08:49.980 Pierre Polyev was just asked about this. Let's hear what he has to say. There's one man who stands in

00:08:56.420 the way of this pipeline getting built. It's Mark Carney. If the Liberals want it built, they will

00:09:01.760 immediately repeal the tanker ban so the pipe can fill a ship that goes abroad, the production cap so that

00:09:09.320 our producers can make enough oil to go in the pipe and see 69 so that the pipe can get rapidly

00:09:14.260 approved. Mark Carney really only has to do one thing. Get out of the way.

00:09:20.960 It's true. And it's something that those of us who value the natural resources industry have been

00:09:28.920 saying now for a decade. And just let me explain the taxpayer angle on this. Okay. So for example,

00:09:37.560 I'll give you one example with a pipeline. Okay. So back years ago, people might remember the company

00:09:43.600 Kinder Morgan. It is a private company. It owned a pipeline that already existed. It was built in the

00:09:51.060 1950s that runs from Edmonton through the Rockies across BC and out to Burnaby. Okay. Which is a city

00:10:00.520 that's part of the Greater Vancouver Regional District. There it was. Okay. It was there for decades.

00:10:06.300 Kinder Morgan said, hey, we're seeing a lot of oil and gas products coming out of Edmonton,

00:10:11.740 coming out of Alberta. We want to be able to ship more, but we don't have the capacity.

00:10:16.320 We're going to twin our own pipeline. So same route. It's this little mode area in the woods

00:10:22.660 generally. Okay. We're going to just twin this. They got green lights at first, but so much foot

00:10:29.500 dragging. It dragged on and on and on between the NDP government in Victoria and the newly minted

00:10:37.040 Justin Trudeau government in Ottawa. It just basically hemorrhaged money this entire time

00:10:42.640 without putting a shovel in the ground. So the private company basically threw its hands up and

00:10:46.920 said, you know what? We can't do business here. We can't do this anymore. And so the Trudeau government

00:10:51.080 stepped in and it's like, oh, we're going to be the hero here. Let's buy the existing pipeline

00:10:56.320 and build the second one on taxpayer dime. It was a terrible thing to do. And it wound up costing us

00:11:03.640 like $30 billion. So that gives you an example of the difference here. That Kinder Morgan pipeline

00:11:10.160 alone, just its private property taxes that it has to pay, okay, into the greater Vancouver

00:11:16.880 regional district because it exists through that area. That apparently was enough money

00:11:22.280 to cover its garbage and recycling collection. That's just property taxes. The amount of money

00:11:29.600 that would have been taken in by the government, okay, through income taxes, okay, alone would have

00:11:35.560 been billions of dollars if we had had full proper pipeline capacity in this country. In fact, there's

00:11:42.420 even economists who have done the math. They've said for the past 10 years, since 2015, Canada has lost

00:11:50.660 out on approximately $600 billion because of strangled and stalled natural resources projects. So that

00:12:02.380 includes things like pipelines, mines, that big infrastructure stuff for natural resources. So

00:12:08.140 this is why we are seeing investors saying we can't do business here. That's why this test of the system

00:12:16.160 of the new nation building office that Alberta is doing here is super important. Where do we go from

00:12:23.500 here? What are the feds going to do about this? Let's find out. Joining me now is Brian Lilly. He is the

00:12:30.900 senior columnist with the Toronto Sun newspaper chain. He is stationed in Toronto. He's also the host of a

00:12:38.240 great podcast here. It's called Full Comment. Okay, look for the orange square with the mouth thing around it.

00:12:44.600 And I use him as my interpreter. Brian, you are my go between what I would call independent media and

00:12:51.700 more mainstream media. And you also get heavy hitters on. I was listening to your experts that

00:12:56.600 were talking about urban warfare. John Spencer and Richard Kemp, that was a great episode.

00:13:02.180 And I say it was a great episode, not because I had much to say, but because I had these two really

00:13:07.840 smart guys on a British army officer retired, American army officer retired, we talked all about Gaza, the war there,

00:13:14.940 what it's like doing urban warfare and debunked a lot of the myths that have been going on. So I appreciate your

00:13:22.840 support as always, Chris.

00:13:23.840 Great guests make good shows, Brian. I wanted to get your response to a move that Premier Smith made yesterday. Now I will admit

00:13:33.840 leading up to it, I was hearing rumors of Oh, they're going to pay to build a pipeline of taxpayers money or

00:13:38.840 there's going to be some weird Crown Corp. And I was getting kind of nervous about it. And then the move

00:13:44.840 that she made, I thought was pretty darn interesting, pretty smart. So we go ahead.

00:13:50.840 It's hard to speak out against this. If she announced, hey, we're gonna, you know, start the Alberta pipeline 0.63

00:13:56.840 corporation and taxpayers are going to pay for it. I wouldn't know that's not a good idea. But you know, we have

00:14:03.840 faced, what two decades of opposition to pipelines that is irrational, in my view, and you and I spent a lot of time

00:14:10.840 talking about this over the years, we have talked about Northern Gateway about Keystone XL, Trans Mountain, Energy East,

00:14:19.840 we've talked about all of them, and the irrational opposition to them. So what is she proposing?

00:14:24.840 Spend $14 million, partner with industry, including those in the oil and gas industry, the pipeline industry,

00:14:30.840 partner with indigenous groups, and let's start doing the preliminary planning work.

00:14:36.840 This has to be done anyway, somebody has to do it. And the knock that liberals keep using is,

00:14:41.840 well, of course, there's no pipeline on our list of major projects, there's no private sector proponent.

00:14:46.840 Well, why is there no private sector proponent? Because the regulatory environment is such that

00:14:52.840 no one in the right mind would do this. I mean, TransCanada was just down doing the rounds.

00:14:57.840 Francois Poirier was on CNBC, he was on Fox Business, he was talking to the Wall Street Journal.

00:15:05.840 He's the CEO of TC Energy. Why was he down in New York, touting their $8.5 billion investment

00:15:11.840 south of the border? They're not investing near that in Canada. Why? The regulatory environment.

00:15:18.840 So this is where government steps in, and I think Premier Smith did a good move in saying,

00:15:24.840 we'll do the planning, the preparatory work. Sounds like she wants to go along a similar route

00:15:30.840 to Northern Gateway, maybe some changes along the way. They'll study it, they'll see. That's a good idea.

00:15:35.840 What I don't like is David Eby turning around and acting like he's his own sovereign country and saying,

00:15:42.840 hell no, you won't get a pipeline through our land. We don't like pipelines and we want a pristine coast

00:15:48.840 and you're going to just dirty it up.

00:15:50.840 Yeah, we just finished playing all of those clips. I got a kick out of a few things. Number one, as you know,

00:15:57.840 because you called me a hippie my whole life, I'm from Vancouver Island, so I get the West Coast.

00:16:03.840 It's not pristine. It is a busy, teeming port coast, okay? There is stuff that is shipped out of the ports,

00:16:12.840 the ports off of the West Coast every hour of every day. So this notion that it's somehow some strange Eden

00:16:20.840 that only has whales and otters in it, that's just a myth. It's a fantasy. That's not true.

00:16:26.840 Are you going to tell me that Lake Ontario is pristine and Hamilton shouldn't have ships coming in and out of it

00:16:31.840 to deliver iron ore and take products to and from market?

00:16:35.840 I think some environmentalists would try and claim that, but I drive over the Skyway Bridge on a regular basis,

00:16:42.840 I see those big ships and I smile because that means jobs.

00:16:46.840 Yeah, and it means money and it means a real economy and prosperity.

00:16:49.840 I want to shift to Ontario in a second, but first I want to get your hunch on this

00:16:54.840 because Smith just made a big chess move here. She even called it, this is a test.

00:17:00.840 This is a test of your national, your nation building office there, Prime Minister Carney.

00:17:06.840 What do you think he's going to do?

00:17:11.840 I'm not sure. And when he announced the major projects list a couple of weeks back,

00:17:19.840 I had just been on stage in Calgary with Premier Smith and she'd made it clear that the number one priority

00:17:25.840 for her and her government was a pipeline to the Northwest coast of Canada.

00:17:30.840 I want to, I want to stress that it's Northwest coast of Canada, not British Columbia.

00:17:35.840 Yes, it's in British Columbia, but that is the Northwest coast of Canada.

00:17:39.840 We are a nation. We are a country. We have a confederation for a reason.

00:17:43.840 She said that was her number one priority. And okay. Interesting.

00:17:47.840 A few days later, the major projects list comes out. No oil pipeline on it.

00:17:52.840 Yeah. Okay. We'll double the LNG Canada project. That's good.

00:17:57.840 You know, I appreciate everything that's on the list.

00:17:59.840 Even if I think it's too tepid, not strong enough.

00:18:02.840 These are good projects that back every one of them.

00:18:05.840 But she said to Albertans, have patience.

00:18:09.840 And I thought, okay, does she know something we don't?

00:18:12.840 And, you know, like a lot of people wondered, did she have a special deal with Prime Minister Carney?

00:18:18.840 Did he tell her, don't worry, you're on the second list that comes on Grey Cup Sunday or by Grey Cup Sunday

00:18:24.840 because everything is being delivered by a sports deadline with the new government, it seems.

00:18:29.840 And I think she was already planning what we're seeing.

00:18:34.840 But this will be a test if they do the planning and they can show, look, we have buy-in from Indigenous groups.

00:18:40.840 And I know some are coming out already and saying, oh, no, we won't buy it.

00:18:44.840 Northern Gateway had buy-in from every Indigenous group along the route.

00:18:48.840 There were people within those communities who didn't like it.

00:18:51.840 But that's like saying, well, you're planning a highway and, well, there's some opposition

00:18:56.840 because Bob doesn't like that it goes near his land.

00:18:59.840 Well, Bob isn't the whole community and Bob doesn't get to decide everything.

00:19:02.840 And it's the same with Indigenous groups.

00:19:04.840 Just because you are Indigenous doesn't mean you as an individual get a veto.

00:19:09.840 And we have to get over that, especially folks in the media that like to prop up that idea.

00:19:13.840 So she is doing something that will force the major projects office to sit up and take notice. 0.98

00:19:21.840 I've spoken to people who know Don Farrell, who's leading the major projects office.

00:19:25.840 They say they have faith in her. I don't know her.

00:19:27.840 I don't know her. I've heard from others who say, watch out, you know, she's not as advertised.

00:19:31.840 Again, I don't know her.

00:19:33.840 But smart business people I know say she understands the industry.

00:19:36.840 So if Premier Smith can bring forward something that is credible, this will put to the test this major projects office.

00:19:45.840 And Mark Carney, I think, has to start using his political capital to say to people like David Eby, calm down.

00:19:52.840 We are a country and you're either in the country or you're out.

00:19:56.840 But, you know, everyone talks about Alberta separatism.

00:19:59.840 Sounds like B.C. doesn't want to be part of the country and wants to block things going through.

00:20:04.840 How about Alberta starts putting blockades on the highways and says, no, you can't ship anything east from British Columbia.

00:20:13.840 Once it hits the B.C. Alberta border, that's it. It stops. We don't want your trucks.

00:20:18.840 That would not be seen as a good move. That would be seen as hostile.

00:20:22.840 That would be seen as bad for the economy and utterly ridiculous.

00:20:26.840 So is his move to say no to this.

00:20:28.840 Carney needs to stand up on this. 0.87

00:20:30.840 And I think the major projects office needs to take Premier Smith's proposal seriously.

00:20:35.840 I wanted to shift quickly to more of your neck of the woods.

00:20:39.840 And I can't stand reading headlines like this.

00:20:43.840 I saw that there is going to be a huge amount of layoffs in Oshawa again.

00:20:48.840 So all I can think about is the families who are losing a massive breadwinner job there.

00:20:54.840 The upheaval like it's awful.

00:20:56.840 And now a lot of that production or at least that shift work will go to the United States.

00:21:02.840 What kind of headlines, what kind of news is that making in Ontario?

00:21:06.840 And do you think this could have been avoided?

00:21:09.840 Is it just Trump, Trump, Trump, tariffs, tariffs, tariffs?

00:21:11.840 Or is it also things like industrial carbon taxes and the strangulation of the things we were just talking about?

00:21:17.840 It's primarily Trump and tariff driven.

00:21:23.840 If we were in a better space in terms of being a place to invest, maybe they could have dealt with that.

00:21:34.840 But we're not in a good space as a place to invest.

00:21:37.840 The Business Council of Canada has put out their budget proposals.

00:21:40.840 They're calling for changes to the regulatory environment.

00:21:44.840 You know, having the EV mandate, it's still there.

00:21:47.840 It's just on pause.

00:21:48.840 It hasn't even been done away with.

00:21:50.840 It's still there.

00:21:51.840 It's been done away with in the United States.

00:21:54.840 You've got the clean fuel standards.

00:21:57.840 You've got the industrial carbon tax.

00:21:59.840 You've got, you know, a less favorable regulatory regime happening in this country.

00:22:06.840 Canada's industrial policy has always been to be a better place to invest in the United States, to have lower taxes, to have a lighter regulatory touch, so that we can attract investment.

00:22:17.840 It takes a lot to get a company to say, yeah, I'll build north of the border and then ship south of the border.

00:22:23.840 And so over successive liberal and conservative governments, we've done that for more than a century.

00:22:29.840 And then Trudeau came in and literally was trying to strangle every industry with regulatory changes, with tax increases.

00:22:36.840 And we're no longer a good place to invest.

00:22:39.840 And so I think that it's not as big as the tariffs, but if we were a better spot, maybe they could have withstood that.

00:22:47.840 You know, losing the jobs in Oshawa, that plant was shut down for a couple of years.

00:22:52.840 I think it was 2018 they announced that it was going to be idled.

00:22:55.840 And, you know, a lot of people in the business, and I'll give credit to Labour and Jerry Diaz, who's now persona non grata everywhere.

00:23:02.840 I'll give credit to Jerry.

00:23:03.840 He worked hard to bring back production at the Oshawa plant after it had been completely shut down.

00:23:09.840 So it was always a bit tenuous.

00:23:11.840 This is a big blow for Oshawa.

00:23:14.840 It's a big blow for manufacturing in Ontario.

00:23:16.840 And I worry it won't be the last.

00:23:18.840 Mark Carney was elected promising he could get a deal with Trump.

00:23:21.840 I know Trump.

00:23:22.840 I know how to handle Trump.

00:23:23.840 I can get to deal with Trump.

00:23:24.840 Well, none of those things have come true.

00:23:26.840 And in fact, tariffs are worse than they were during the election.

00:23:31.840 And during the election, what did he say?

00:23:33.840 Well, you had to elect him because President Trump wants to break us so America can own us.

00:23:37.840 Tariffs have only gone up.

00:23:39.840 They've increased on which products they're on.

00:23:41.840 And what does Mark Carney say now?

00:23:42.840 We've got the best deal of any country in the world.

00:23:45.840 Yeah.

00:23:46.840 And he's off talking to Mexico and not trying to get a deal with Washington.

00:23:49.840 There haven't been real talks between Ottawa and Washington since the end of August.

00:23:54.840 And here we are.

00:23:55.840 It's the beginning of October.

00:23:56.840 All these things hurt those workers in Washington.

00:23:59.840 Elections have consequences.

00:24:01.840 Political actions have consequences.

00:24:03.840 And dithering has consequences.

00:24:06.840 Brutal.

00:24:07.840 I just can't.

00:24:08.840 I can't believe they haven't been talking to the United States since August. 0.99

00:24:11.840 So that's pathetic. 0.99

00:24:12.840 I wanted to cheer up a little bit because I saw a really stupid idea and I wanted to get your response to it. 0.99

00:24:19.840 So there was a group. 0.93

00:24:21.840 I honestly can't remember the name of the group, but it was basically what I would say kind of a non-governmental organization that's there in Toronto.

00:24:28.840 And I think it mostly kind of comes up with kind of urbanite, like blue sky, trial balloon-y type ideas in Toronto.

00:24:36.840 And it was making the rounds on the interwebs the other day.

00:24:39.840 And they're like, hey, you know, congestion pricing, as they call it, where you actually, you know, charge a fee to every single driver for the great honor of driving in a downtown core of a city.

00:24:51.840 Let's do that.

00:24:53.840 So I usually liken this to a digital toll wall.

00:24:56.840 They were so close to doing this in Toronto and rather in Vancouver.

00:25:01.840 It was crazy.

00:25:02.840 They were going to charge like eight bucks per crossing over every single bridge going into the downtown of Vancouver.

00:25:09.840 They were going to start charging people using license plate reading cameras.

00:25:14.840 They were going to set up all over the place in Vancouver.

00:25:17.840 You know, a people don't have money to burn in Vancouver.

00:25:20.840 It's one of the least affordable places to live.

00:25:22.840 B there are some zealots who just detest vehicles who can't stand cars.

00:25:30.840 It's one of the craziest things.

00:25:33.840 And so I wanted to get your thoughts on this because they came so close to doing this in Vancouver.

00:25:38.840 And all of the people who hate cars in Vancouver who are on Vancouver City Council, they thought it was a great idea.

00:25:45.840 Let's start punishing drivers. 0.60

00:25:47.840 Let's start charging them eight bucks or six bucks every time they go past a photo camera.

00:25:51.840 I wanted to get your thoughts on this because we see it in London.

00:25:55.840 I can't believe people would still live in that place.

00:25:58.840 It would be so expensive.

00:25:59.840 We've seen pushes for congestion charging in New York.

00:26:03.840 Do you think this is something that would fly in Toronto?

00:26:07.840 Oh, first off, please stop hurting my ears.

00:26:11.840 There is no second T in Toronto.

00:26:13.840 Okay.

00:26:14.840 Sorry.

00:26:15.840 There's no second T ever.

00:26:16.840 Never has been.

00:26:18.840 This is never going to fly in Toronto.

00:26:23.840 Toronto.

00:26:24.840 Mayor Chow would probably love this.

00:26:27.840 There's a number of, you know, left wing, nearly communist councillors like Gord Perks who would love this and would back it and have probably even advocated for it.

00:26:39.840 But it's never going to fly.

00:26:41.840 Not with the residents.

00:26:42.840 And more importantly, not with Ontario Premier Doug Ford, who unless something changes will be premier for life here because he has the worst opposition going.

00:26:51.840 And I know all kinds of people in the audience are going to be saying, oh, he's a liberal.

00:26:55.840 He's still conservative enough to say no to this.

00:26:58.840 He's taking out the speed cameras that were put in, which were allowed to go into.

00:27:03.840 There was supposed to be for school zones and it was supposed to be limited in use.

00:27:07.840 And then, of course, you know, some of the cameras were collecting millions of dollars a year, issuing tens of thousands of tickets for one camera, which, of course, means it's not about slowing people down.

00:27:19.840 It's about a cash grab.

00:27:20.840 So he's ordered the cities get rid of this.

00:27:22.840 You're not doing this.

00:27:23.840 You're not doing a cash grab.

00:27:25.840 He's getting rid.

00:27:26.840 He's already gotten rid of the toll roads on Highway 412 and 418.

00:27:30.840 These were two highway expansions that the Wynn Liberals, perhaps it goes back to Dalton McGinty, but the Liberals had put in previously and made them toll roads.

00:27:40.840 He got rid of that.

00:27:41.840 He's gotten rid of the tolls on the portion of the Highway 407 that the province owns.

00:27:47.840 But I hadn't heard of this story.

00:27:48.840 And so I looked it up and my colleague Joe Warmington wrote about it about a week ago for the Toronto Sun.

00:27:54.840 Oh, great.

00:27:55.840 It's a group called Build Toronto, and they say Toronto is paying the price of gridlock.

00:28:00.840 Commuters waste time in traffic and businesses lose billions in productivity.

00:28:04.840 Congestion pricing will get Toronto moving again.

00:28:07.840 I've never heard of Build Toronto, and their idea can go in the circular bin like that. 0.99

00:28:15.840 This is trash. 0.97

00:28:16.840 You're right that London has it. 0.97

00:28:17.840 But let me warn you about another idea that I only discovered last year visiting family in Glasgow.

00:28:24.840 They don't only have congestion pricing.

00:28:26.840 They have green pricing.

00:28:28.840 And so at one point we wanted to go downtown, staying at my uncle's house.

00:28:32.840 My uncle could not drive me downtown.

00:28:35.840 Why?

00:28:36.840 Do you know why?

00:28:37.840 Why?

00:28:38.840 His car is too old.

00:28:39.840 What?

00:28:40.840 He is 76, 77 years old.

00:28:43.840 He's not going to be buying a brand new car.

00:28:45.840 His car is in good repair.

00:28:47.840 They base it on the age, and they say if your car is above a certain age, it's putting out too many greenhouse gas emissions.

00:28:52.840 Only green cars are allowed in the downtown of Glasgow, and apparently many other cities across the United Kingdom, across once Great Britain.

00:29:01.840 And so if your car isn't green enough, you can't drive it downtown, and then eventually you won't be able to drive it anywhere.

00:29:07.840 So that's the sort of bad idea that we've got to watch for.

00:29:10.840 It's not just congestion pricing anymore.

00:29:12.840 It will be green pricing.

00:29:14.840 This will be like the car version of trying to take away your gas stove or your gas fireplace or your gas barbecue, which is a push that municipalities across North America have been on.

00:29:26.840 And that the Biden administration, when they were still in, was looking at doing that sort of thing.

00:29:31.840 These horrible ideas, you know, they just fester and move around and repackage themselves.

00:29:38.840 But congestion pricing isn't going to happen in Toronto.

00:29:41.840 Lefties have been talking about it forever, and thankfully right now we have a government that will say no.

00:29:47.840 If Kathleen Wynne were still here, I'm sure she would be entertaining the idea and talking about it as a revenue tool. 1.00

00:29:54.840 Gross.

00:29:55.840 That Glasgow story is awful.

00:29:57.840 You know, I can't help but point out, I remember when you and I were watching Glenn Beck together a lot, like 12 years ago or so, and all of this was being warned about.

00:30:07.840 Every single little bit of it.

00:30:09.840 And we came this close to having it in Vancouver, impoverishing people even more, punishing them for daring to have a car.

00:30:15.840 And you're telling me that in Glasgow, if your car is, you know, older, a certain age, you're not allowed to drive it downtown?

00:30:22.840 You are not allowed and you will be penalized and fined.

00:30:26.840 And let me just point out something else.

00:30:29.840 Over this past weekend in Toronto, we had traffic nightmare.

00:30:33.840 I know some people will think Toronto is always a traffic nightmare.

00:30:36.840 That place is a hellhole.

00:30:37.840 I get the emails.

00:30:38.840 I get the tweets.

00:30:39.840 I get it.

00:30:40.840 I get it.

00:30:41.840 But we had, last Saturday, within the span of a few hours, we had the Blue Jays host 42,000 people.

00:30:47.840 Wow.

00:30:48.840 A great game where, you know, they helped clinch their playoff position.

00:30:52.840 We had the Toronto Maple Leafs playing against the Montreal Canadiens in a preseason game that still drew about 19,000 people.

00:31:01.840 I saw the fights.

00:31:02.840 Those were quite some fighting majors.

00:31:04.840 We had Toronto FC draw 25,000 people to BMO Stadium to watch Toronto FC play Lionel Messi with Inter Miami.

00:31:14.840 And we had about 17,000 people roughly at Budweiser stage for a big music event.

00:31:19.840 More than 100,000 people in a small area.

00:31:22.840 What happened?

00:31:23.840 The subway kept shutting down.

00:31:25.840 Street cars were down.

00:31:26.840 And they stopped the commuter rail system, which is called Go Train around here.

00:31:31.840 They shut it down.

00:31:32.840 So all these people that would normally take transit, you want us to take transit and get out of our cars, you've got to actually make sure the transit is there.

00:31:39.840 And this was a planned shutdown of that train system when they knew that there were four massive events.

00:31:46.840 And all those venues that I mentioned, they're purposely built along the transit system so that you can get people in and out of the city.

00:31:53.840 So, you know, don't tell me to get on the train, which I use all the time, but don't tell me to get on the train if the train's not going to be there.

00:32:01.840 You know, well, we'll just use congestion pricing and everyone can go on the train.

00:32:05.840 Not if it's not running.

00:32:06.840 Oh, my gosh.

00:32:08.840 Brian, outstanding coverage as always.

00:32:10.840 Thank you so much for your time.

00:32:12.840 Once again, folks, if you've got your podcast thing going on like I do in the weekends when I'm trying to defragment, be sure to tune in to Brian's full comment and read his articles in the Toronto Sun.

00:32:23.840 Thanks so much, man.

00:32:24.840 Thank you.

00:32:25.840 Once again, that is Brian Lilly.

00:32:27.840 He's the senior columnist for the Toronto Sun newspaper chain.

00:32:31.840 He's lived all through Ontario, lived in Quebec.

00:32:34.840 He's covered Parliament Hill.

00:32:35.840 He's covered Queen's Park.

00:32:36.840 And as you can hear, he's got a really good read on Western Canada.

00:32:40.840 So definitely tune in to what Brian is having to say and his analysis so that you can understand what's going on.

00:32:47.840 So let's understand a little bit more of what is going on.

00:32:51.840 And I wanted to focus on Toronto.

00:32:53.840 But again, this does not stop in Toronto.

00:32:57.840 This does not stop things like this in Ontario. 0.84

00:33:00.840 It spreads across Canada, folks, because some dumb idea that is tried, like I mentioned, in Vancouver or floated like a cute little trial balloon in Toronto.

00:33:13.840 These municipal politicians, they all talk to each other like they all talk to each other and they literally gather together in summits at least once a year, probably twice.

00:33:23.840 It's basically like summer camp, but for city politicians and you get to pay for it and they all get to become BFFs all the time.

00:33:32.840 And then they exchange horrible ideas like let's ban natural gas furnaces in people's private homes.

00:33:39.840 Let's charge people more parking based on how big or old or new their vehicle is.

00:33:45.840 That's something they tried in Vancouver. 0.97

00:33:47.840 These sort of dumb ideas, they spread and they seep into smaller cities. 0.97

00:33:53.840 So if you're in Brandon or you're in Moose Jaw or you're in Red Deer, these sort of things do come home to roost. 0.98

00:34:01.840 So it's super important to pay attention.

00:34:03.840 What is going on with Ontario Premier Doug Ford and getting rid of those photo cameras?

00:34:10.840 Let's find out.

00:34:11.840 Joining me now is Noah Jarvis, the Ontario director for the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.

00:34:18.840 Audience members might recognize Noah from True North and Juno.

00:34:23.840 Yeah, sorry.

00:34:24.840 The CTF stole him because he's just that good.

00:34:27.840 Noah, thanks for joining the show today.

00:34:29.840 Thanks for having me on.

00:34:30.840 It's always a pleasure to talk to you, Chris.

00:34:32.840 This is kind of fun.

00:34:33.840 We're kind of like, I feel like I'm talking back through a different echo tunnel or something.

00:34:37.840 So it's super fun to have you on as Ontario director.

00:34:40.840 I had to get you on the show to talk about Ontario Premier Doug Ford, the good and the bad.

00:34:47.840 And right off the top, I will say that we do have a fun animation because Ontario Premier Doug Ford does tend to be a populist, but who goes whichever way the wind is blowing.

00:34:59.840 So we made up this fun animation.

00:35:01.840 It's of a weather vane.

00:35:03.840 There we go.

00:35:04.840 And I thought that it was fun to make this animation because a lot of us will say, oh, well, you know, Doug Ford's a weather vane or blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:35:13.840 And then it dawned on me.

00:35:15.840 I don't know how many people know what weather vanes are like.

00:35:18.840 That's an old term.

00:35:20.840 So what you saw there was there are things that are like metal kind of four directional things that typically sit on this on the top of a barn.

00:35:27.840 And they they turn whichever way the wind is blowing and they show you which way the wind is coming from.

00:35:33.840 That's super important to know, OK, when you're working on the farm, if you're trying to pull in a harvest, if you're trying to burn some some shrubs.

00:35:39.840 Right. Something like that.

00:35:40.840 So I just thought that was funny and I wanted to poke a little bit of fun at Doug Ford.

00:35:44.840 But let's start with the good things.

00:35:46.840 He is getting rid of photo radar.

00:35:50.840 Why was this becoming a problem and why did he get rid of it?

00:35:54.840 Well, just firstly on for going back and forth.

00:35:58.840 I mean, we praise him when he does something great and we, you know, don't when he doesn't.

00:36:03.840 That's just how we operate at the CTF.

00:36:05.840 But when it comes to the speed cameras, I mean, the Ford government had initially brought in the policy that allowed municipalities to install these speed cameras back in 2019.

00:36:18.840 And since these municipalities were granted this power, they have basically exploited this program.

00:36:26.840 They have installed speed cameras, not just in school zones or in other places where it would be expected that drivers take extra precaution to slow down.

00:36:35.840 But they ended up just installing the cameras all throughout their cities and really using the cameras as a cash grab.

00:36:43.840 Premier Ford even recognized that these cameras were a cash grab and thus he moved to ban municipalities from installing and using these cameras in the way that they have.

00:36:56.840 But what we have to recognize is that Ford, like the weather vane as he is portrayed in that great animation, he blows one way on one day and blows and goes with the wind in a different direction on another.

00:37:10.840 In 2019, he thought it was politically expedient to bring in these speed cameras.

00:37:15.840 And now in 2025, he recognizes that these cameras are unpopular and are thus scrapping them.

00:37:21.840 So we thank him for getting rid of these cameras.

00:37:24.840 But I think he needs to make sure that his priorities are always in line with saving taxpayers money instead of trying to exploit them and grab their cash at any every possible moment.

00:37:37.840 I wanted to continue with the good stuff.

00:37:39.840 What about the gas taxes?

00:37:41.840 Where are you guys right now with Ontario provincial gas taxes?

00:37:45.840 Yeah, so we don't exactly have the lowest gas taxes in the country.

00:37:49.840 I believe that the title belongs to either Alberta or Saskatchewan.

00:37:52.840 So congrats.

00:37:53.840 Keep doing what you're doing out there out west.

00:37:55.840 But in Ontario, we received a significant cut in our gas taxes a couple of years ago where Premier Ford reduced the tax for gasoline from 14.7 cents a liter down to 9 cents a liter, making Ontario's gas tax one of the lowest in the country.

00:38:13.840 And a few months ago, he extended the gas tax cut for Ontario drivers.

00:38:19.840 And this is really saving Ontario drivers a significant amount of money.

00:38:23.840 If you own a pickup truck like a Ford F-150, for example, every time you go to the pump to fill up, you're going to be saving $7.75, almost $8 at the pump every time you go to fill up your tank.

00:38:37.840 If you drive a minivan like say a Honda Odyssey in a year, you're probably going to save about $219 at the pump.

00:38:47.840 Those are significant savings that families can put to other necessities like clothing or food or even just planning a family vacation, which you can take an extra day because you have the little extra change in your pocket from those savings for the gas tax cut.

00:39:05.840 So it is great that Premier Ford recognizes the need for gas taxes to come down and also in line with his continued opposition to a carbon tax.

00:39:15.840 But there are other areas where Premier Ford could be cutting taxes and he's just not.

00:39:22.840 OK, so let's get into that really quick here. Where does Ford need improvement?

00:39:27.840 You mentioned carbon taxes. I don't know if this is on your list, but I'm going to throw it on there real quick.

00:39:32.840 He needs to stand up to Mark Carney's industrial carbon tax out loud with his face and his actions.

00:39:39.840 He needs to say, do not do this. So I don't know if that's on your list of stuff, but where does Ford need to pull his grades up?

00:39:46.840 Well, it's a very long list. And, you know, that definitely made the list.

00:39:51.840 He needs to stand up to Carney, not just on opposing the industrial carbon tax.

00:39:55.840 He was he was very happy to oppose the cap and trade system in Ontario and oppose the consumer carbon tax.

00:40:00.840 You know, if you remember the McLean's magazine where he's standing with all the different premiers and claiming to be the resistance.

00:40:07.840 But when Carney comes into office, he's clearly hasn't been resisting the industrial carbon tax, which really hits Ontario's auto industry, steel industry.

00:40:18.840 All of the industrial products that are made in Ontario, they are being hit by the industrial carbon tax.

00:40:26.840 But he also needs to oppose Mark Carney's EV mandate. You saw Premier Ford make some tepid comments about how the EV mandate needs to go.

00:40:36.840 But Premier Ford could take solid action in joining a legal fight that Alberta had started in opposing the EV mandate, claiming that the mandate is unconstitutional.

00:40:46.840 Yet Premier Ford hasn't joined in on the fight. And it's not just Premier Ford, but other premiers need to join in on that fight and support Alberta in making that argument.

00:40:55.840 But to stay with Ontario, Premier Ford, he says a lot of good things.

00:41:00.840 He says that he opposed the EV mandate doesn't do doesn't actually take take to put in the work to oppose the mandate.

00:41:07.840 But he also made a lot of promises in 2018 that he did not follow through on a lot of tax cut promises, but not a lot of tax cuts.

00:41:16.840 Let's just say he promised to cut the income tax for the second tax bracket by 20 percent.

00:41:24.840 That has not manifested. He promised to cut taxes for businesses, small businesses.

00:41:30.840 Those tax cuts haven't manifested itself.

00:41:33.840 He said that he would significantly reduce or even eliminate income taxes for minimum wage earners.

00:41:39.840 And that has not happened. So why?

00:41:42.840 What is it? OK, that's making me mad.

00:41:45.840 OK, well, you know, when you get into government, you kind of realize that you like being able to throw money around,

00:41:52.840 you know, spend on this and that, try and create an industry or revive an industry that you think is going to boost your political prospects or be popular with some segment or another.

00:42:03.840 But the harder, more principled decision is to actually follow through on those promises to cut spending, cut taxes that you're able to deliver those savings to taxpayers.

00:42:14.840 But instead, he is continuing on with the McGinty win era of tax and spend policy.

00:42:19.840 Yeah, it's the McGinty win kind of tax and spend folks.

00:42:23.840 It shouldn't matter if it's a guy in a blue tie or a lady in a red dress. 0.89

00:42:29.840 Spending is spending. Last I checked, Noah, it was costing Ontario taxpayers like three hundred million dollars a week on the debt interest payments.

00:42:39.840 Put another way. So a house is about a million bucks in like the greater Toronto area.

00:42:44.840 I know that sounds crazy, but, you know, give or take, let's say a really fancy house is about a million bucks in the area just for average.

00:42:52.840 Burn down three hundred houses every single week.

00:42:55.840 That's the value of the interest charges.

00:42:58.840 Last I checked that Ontario taxpayers are paying on the debt and Premier Ford has got to do some serious work on his budget to be able to start fighting that debt.

00:43:07.840 I've got 30, about 30 seconds left.

00:43:10.840 What's what's your last point that you want Ford to work on here?

00:43:13.840 Well, he needs to follow through on his 2018 promises of getting Ontario's finances back in control and actually being able to deliver tax cuts to Ontarians.

00:43:23.840 We are running a fourteen point six billion dollar deficit.

00:43:27.840 That means that the government's borrowing fourteen point six billion dollars that taxpayers are going to have to pay back through taxes.

00:43:33.840 We are currently, as you mentioned, paying Bay Street bondholders one point three five billion dollars every month on interest charges.

00:43:42.840 You said that's like burning down three hundred houses.

00:43:45.840 That's like not being able to build twenty seven secondary schools.

00:43:49.840 That's the cost of twenty seven secondary schools that are not being built because we're giving that money to bondholders on Bay Street.

00:43:55.840 So Ford needs to recommit to a lot of his promises he made in twenty eighteen control spending and actually deliver tax cuts for Ontarians.

00:44:04.840 Noah Jarvis, Ontario Director for the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.

00:44:09.840 Thank you so much for joining us.

00:44:10.840 Thanks for having me on, Chris.

00:44:12.840 Folks, this is why you have to go to Juneau News and subscribe to Juneau News.

00:44:17.840 OK, because we can get great guests like this.

00:44:20.840 We can get great analysis like this.

00:44:22.840 I wanted to take a moment to thank Candace Malcolm for letting the Canadian Taxpayers Federation sit in her chair while she's away.

00:44:31.840 We really appreciate this opportunity to reach the audience, to reach the listeners of Juneau News.

00:44:37.840 Folks, this is where you're going to get deep dives like this.

00:44:41.840 This is where you're going to get holding politicians to account, because at the end of the day, they're going to try to take more of your money.

00:44:50.840 They're going to try to control your lives.

00:44:52.840 Remember what we just told you about an idea of a toll wall around Toronto.

00:44:56.840 OK, and they're going to try to strangle industry. 1.00

00:45:01.840 So make sure that you go to Juneau News, subscribe to Juneau News to support independent media, independent journalism.

00:45:10.840 I've got to say really quick, as a longtime journalist, it is so important for people to subscribe to independent journalism.

00:45:19.840 Because unfortunately, right now, most of the mainstream media is now on government paywall.

00:45:27.840 That is not journalism.

00:45:29.840 OK, journalists must not be paid by the government in order for us to be able to hold government to account.

00:45:36.840 We can't be counting on government for our paycheck.

00:45:39.840 That is the opposite of a free press.

00:45:41.840 So make sure you support a free press here in Canada by subscribing to independent newsrooms that you want to watch.

00:45:49.840 And also be sure to like this video, subscribe to the YouTube channel and share this info with people who need to know.

00:45:57.840 with people who need to know.

00:45:58.840 with people who need to know.

Juno News - October 02, 2025

Danielle Smith puts Carney’s “nation-building” office to the test

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