00:00:00.000Our guest today is Alberta Premier Danielle Smith joining us from Charlottetown, Prince
00:00:11.040Edward Island. Welcome Premier. Hi Mark. Let's talk a little bit about what just happened in
00:00:17.240Charlottetown, NPI, where you had conversations with your fellow premiers as well as the Prime
00:00:23.480Minister. We have Premier Ford, perhaps one of the loudest voices, now referring to President
00:00:29.560Trump is a rabid dog while he calls on other provinces, including Alberta, to basically
00:00:37.060weaponize the energy sector to, quote, dismantle the USA. What's your position on the escalating
00:00:43.860level of name-calling and threats here? Well, I take a different approach, and I think the
00:00:50.080different approach has been working for us. The approach that we take is to go to the United0.92
00:00:54.220States and to make the case to customers and to Americans directly that they benefit from having
00:01:00.140a strong trade relationship with Canada. We made that case on energy. And as a result, we've got
00:01:04.700a lot of champions for us in the United States and energy has remained tariff free. In fact,
00:01:09.94097% of Alberta's goods cross into the United States without tariffs. We'd like to address
00:01:15.700the other 3% and we'd like to make sure that the other sectoral tariffs also enjoy that same
00:01:20.040treatment but i think a far more effective strategy is the one that we've been pursuing
00:01:24.520which is to make the case with american legislators american thought leaders and to get them to shift
00:01:30.520public opinion because i think public opinion in the united states is shifting i mean they get
00:01:35.400albert energy at a steep discount still don't they i mean putting a tariff on that doesn't seem to
00:01:40.680make sense in light of that wouldn't you agree well not as uh i mean it's not as steep as it was
00:01:45.480before remember i mean when we only had one market to sell our product to that the differential um as
00:01:51.560they call it between west west texas intermediates and western canada select was thirty dollars um
00:01:58.280it's gone down to as low as about twelve dollars and that's essentially the cost of additional
00:02:03.800transport and additional refining so that actually is a fairly normal differential to have but it is
00:02:09.000part of the reason why i think that when we start looking at what kind of leverage we have to get a
00:02:14.680trade relation negotiation done making sure that we have other customers is part of that and you
00:02:20.520can see that all of the premiers and the prime minister there's been over a hundred trade
00:02:23.880missions that have taken place in the last 18 months or so 20 new trade agreements with
00:02:28.4403 billion potential new customers and every time i talk to a new leader whether they're from europe
00:02:34.280or whether they're from asia we we often leave with the energy conversation they need energy
00:02:38.600They want security. They don't feel that they can trust their traditional partners
00:02:44.840after the Strait of Hormuz closure and the constant disruptions there. And they want to
00:02:50.560secure supply from Canada. So I think that that has given us a real bargaining chip and a real
00:02:56.160talking point. And I think that the Americans, because they have proximity, because we have
00:03:00.880always enjoyed a strong trade relationship, now's the time for us to say, hey, look, we've got a
00:03:06.040of product we know that your your uh your people want it your businesses want it let's make a deal
00:03:10.840and now with oil over 90 a barrel i guess that'll be a nice windfall for alberta and for the rest of
00:03:18.200canada i suppose you don't want to mess with that fair well you have to there's a couple things i'd
00:03:23.000say number number one is if you put tariffs or bans on oil you would devastate the alberta economy
00:03:31.640overnight like that's the word that's like punching yourself in the face and there's no
00:03:35.800reason to do that it would it would harm our our businesses it would it would harm our customers
00:03:41.480it would it would harm our workers in the industry uh and and it would also um cause devastation in
00:03:47.640ontario and quebec i think people often forget that the uh line five which is one of the the
00:03:53.720main lines that go to feed the refineries in sarnia and then go on up to montreal that's fed
00:03:59.160through the United States, through Michigan, the Michigan governor has been threatening
00:04:03.500to shut that down for years. We've been fighting to keep it open. So if you do something silly,
00:04:09.740like say, hey, we're going to cut you off, guess what? The Americans have a bigger stick.0.99
00:04:13.700And I certainly do not want to see on Torontonians or Montrealers not able to get
00:04:18.600flights because they have run out of aviation fuel and not able to get to work because they
00:04:22.480no longer have gasoline or diesel. So you should never lead with the threat that you can't act on.
00:04:28.180And so that's why when anyone asks me about using energy as a weapon, I say hard no.
00:04:32.820If you want to use energy, promise to sell the Americans 3 million barrels a day more.
00:04:37.780Because I think that that's where we're going to get to some big deals, is that if we can help to secure lower prices for American consumers,
00:04:45.100as well as be able to re-export it internationally to help with North American energy dominance, to me, that's the position that we should be in.
00:04:52.160Do you favor any kind of retaliatory action if, in fact, these latest tariffs come to fruition and they actually happen?
00:05:01.720Well, I can tell you, as I say, the approach that I prefer to take is winning hearts and minds.
00:05:27.320We've got a reversal of terrible policy just in a short time, 18 months,
00:05:31.840and that was because Canadians moved first and the politicians had to follow.
00:05:35.620And that's the kind of approach I would take with the United States, and I have been,
00:05:38.600is that if we can make the case to American legislators, American business leaders,
00:05:43.540American thought leaders, and we have, we just hosted hundreds of legislators in Alberta
00:05:48.020through Stampede, through the PENWAR, the Pacific Northwest region event, through the councils of
00:05:53.680state legislators. We took delegations up to the oil sands to explain to them where their
00:05:58.980energy was coming from, especially those refining states that are 100% reliant on Canadian crude.
00:06:06.900And we're developing them as champions for the trade relationship. And that's going to have a
00:06:13.100huge impact. And I think that that's the way that we have to continue working with our American
00:06:16.620partners is let's win over American citizens and American businesses one by one, and the
00:06:21.880politicians will follow. That's an approach that's very much at odds with your fellow premier
00:06:27.120in Ontario. It seems to be saying that now even cutting off, say, Ontario electricity sales to
00:06:33.980Michigan and New York might be an option in order to... Please, go ahead. We tried that. I mean,
00:06:41.280we saw what happened when that was attempted one other time. And my recollection was that the
00:06:48.620response from the American was swift and painful. They threatened to double the tariffs that they
00:06:54.600were charging on us. And Canada had to back down by the afternoon. So again, I don't think that
00:07:00.820you lead with policies that you know are not going to be effective and are going to result
00:07:04.800in the disproportionate response that is going to harm your own people more than whatever harm
00:07:10.420you're you're trying to exact i i think that we it may sound good to to propose those kinds of
00:07:15.780things but we should really be proposing things that we can that we can do in practice what can
00:07:20.260we do in practice well we can build pipelines east and west we can find new markets in europe
00:07:26.020and and asia we can develop a a critical minerals buying group that um that uh has all of our
00:07:32.900critical minerals going to multiple places around the world we can develop new uh agri-food trade
00:07:38.420markets and those are all the things that we're working on doing i think that the american
00:07:42.420relationship with canada it's going to be our most important trade relationship but it's not an
00:07:47.300exclusive one now there's opportunities to trade in the uh asian markets there's opportunities to
00:07:52.740trade at the european markets and we'll see in september when that comes around that is going
00:07:56.980to be a major international investment conference and there are a number of different uh sovereign
00:08:01.860wealth funds that are coming with a checkbook saying what can we invest in so i i like the
00:08:06.180dynamic that's been created i like the fact that we're at a point now where i think there's a lot
00:08:11.380of people taking a look at canada and wanting to partner with us and that is um that has been one
00:08:16.020of the positive things that have developed out of the the last 18 months it's the the yeah let's
00:08:20.980work on this together and let's and let's find those new trading partners i thought there was
00:08:25.060an issue around attracting private investment is that no longer the case i guess we'll see i mean
00:08:32.660There's a number of different investments that are on the table.
00:08:37.520We had a major investment in a data center, which was all private sector money, $13 billion.
00:08:42.140The power plants associated with it and the gas line associated with it at $4.6 billion, all private sector.
00:08:49.020A private sector proponent came forward to partner with us on our West Coast pipeline, starting at 10%.
00:08:54.700Maybe as the project gets closer to final investment decision, we'll be able to attract more private partners and there'll be a larger stake.
00:09:01.420And we're seeing across the country that there are similar large scale investments being made, particularly in energy, because as you have, if you're able to power your economy, you're able to re-attract manufacturing and re-industrialize.
00:09:16.380And so I think we're just getting started, really.
00:09:19.120When you look at the book of business that is going to be at that conference,
00:09:24.840I think the prime minister has said that it's in the order of $400 billion of projects that we're already talking about with more to come.
00:09:31.540So that's pretty good progress for us to be working together and achieving that level of interest.
00:09:39.100And so I guess we'll find out in a couple of months' time.
00:09:42.280Now, Premier Ford has lamented the fact that he feels that he's done most of the heavy lifting
00:09:46.300in terms of pushing back against the Trump administration.
00:09:49.960And it seems to be a shot across the bow of Alberta.
00:09:53.400And you in particular, he feels that you need to get on side,
00:09:57.200that everybody needs to be on the same page in terms of inflicting as much pain on the Americans as humanly possible.
00:10:06.780Well, I can tell you one of the things I appreciate about Doug Ford is that he has launched a new pipeline proposal called the Northern Shield that would allow for us to become energy independent, to have an entire new pipeline up to a million barrels a day that would be able to be all in Canada so that we can feed our refineries here as well as go on to Quebec.
00:10:31.600but you know what it doesn't exist yet and and so aspirationally i'm with him on wanting to do
00:10:37.280those things together but we have to deal with the world as it is right now and the world as it is
00:10:41.920right now we would be far worse off in any kind of energy war that we started with a with our
00:10:48.240trading partner we're a three trillion dollar economy they're a 30 trillion dollar economy
00:10:53.040we have to be realistic about what kind of leverage we can have in any of those negotiations
00:10:58.160and when you're in such an imbalanced relationship my view is that you got to make the case about how
00:11:04.480our trade relationship benefits americans and that's the reason why i've done it he takes a
00:11:08.880bit of a different approach and i guess we'll see in the end which one is the the one that
00:11:13.200will win out but i i always like to leave with with diplomacy but is it hard to be lumped in
00:11:19.840in the same country where you have another premier a colleague essentially calling the
00:11:24.880president of the united states a rabid dog i mean do you cringe a little bit do you say
00:11:30.160you know we really have to do that you know we have different styles and what i would say is
00:11:35.520that the person who at the moment is the most important relationship is the the relationship
00:11:40.960the prime minister has with the president and i think that is it is greatly improved
00:11:45.280from the previous prime minister i don't think the the pr i don't think i'm speaking out of school to
00:11:50.400observe that they didn't have a very good personal relationship i think we've seen that
00:11:54.400that this prime minister does have a good personal relationship with the president.
00:11:59.140Any kind of trade negotiation begins there.
00:12:01.760And I think it's because he's taken a measured calm tone about it.
00:12:05.600He doesn't respond to every perceived threat or every new tariff announcement in an emotional way.
00:12:14.280I think he's working through and trying to get us the best deal possible.
00:12:18.260And he said that he's going to intensify those efforts as we count down over the next 27 days to the new tariffs.
00:12:24.160And I hope he's successful. It'd be good for the, it'd be not only good for North America,
00:12:29.120but it'd certainly be good for every single province in Canada to get some certainty around
00:12:33.340a trade deal. So you believe there may be a trade deal before the scheduled latest tariffs are
00:12:41.300brought in. Is that right? You're optimistic about that? I hope so. I mean, I think that we've been
00:12:46.360kind of waiting to see what the trigger would be to get the intensity of the negotiations back on.
00:12:52.520I mean, I've gone through that with the federal government, as you know, because we've had some pretty intense round of negotiations with our MOU, followed by the pipeline discussion at the Pathways Group.
00:13:01.900So I have some some understanding of just how many hours you need to put in at the table working through line by line.
00:13:09.300And we haven't gotten to that level of intensity yet.
00:13:11.580But the fact that he's he thinks that this might be the countdown window to to really accelerate that, that that leaves me optimistic.
00:13:20.120It seems like if the Americans are getting serious and we're getting serious, we might end up getting somewhere.
00:13:25.540I want to quote you a statement by the leader of the opposition in Alberta, Nahed Nenshi, leader of the NDP.
00:13:33.200I wish I was at the negotiating table, he says, but I know the premier has just met in Charlottetown and had very frank conversations.
00:13:41.300And here's the thing. You should fight like hell at those negotiating tables.
00:13:46.320you should figure out together and have the difficult conversations on what the unified
00:13:52.040front for Canada should be. Instead, what the premier does is she steps out of the room and
00:13:58.520says, here's the things I will not accept. That is no way to negotiate because she's saying that
00:14:04.900for her base in Alberta. But the people who are hearing that is the government of the United
00:14:10.600States. And what they see out of that is weakness. And they understand that they have further
00:14:17.420leverage. It's a terrible way to negotiate. What do you make of that? Well, there's a lot of words
00:14:23.400there. And what it does come down to is the leader of the official opposition is saying that he would
00:14:29.180put carbon taxes or he would put export taxes on Alberta oil and he would shut off Alberta oil.
00:14:34.300And I think that's an irresponsible position to take for the reasons that I describe.
00:14:37.620that not only do you damage permanently your relationship with the United States,
00:14:43.360but the retaliation associated with that would harm Ontario and Quebec.