Juno News - Despite cabinet tweaks, Trudeau is planning more of the same

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.660 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.900 Coming up, Justin Trudeau's cabinet changes, but everything really remains the same.

00:00:17.460 The Liberals continue to wedge Conservatives on vaccination,

00:00:20.800 and Aaron Gunn speaks out after disqualification from the BC Liberal leadership race.

00:00:25.360 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:33.040 Hello and welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:37.020 It is Tuesday, October 26th, 2021.

00:00:40.240 Thanks for tuning into the program.

00:00:42.300 I spent the last couple of days in Alberta, which I feel I've been saying a lot lately.

00:00:47.300 There have been a few things that have pulled me out there.

00:00:49.740 This time, I was speaking at another one of the Economic Education Association of Alberta's Freedom Talk conferences.

00:00:57.100 We were talking about healthcare, and I'll have some interviews and coverage from that conference on my Thursday show in just a couple of days' time.

00:01:05.460 Big news today is Justin Trudeau's new cabinet, which is new and exciting, and yet not all that different.

00:01:13.900 There have certainly been some changes.

00:01:15.580 People have been shuffled around, a couple of notable absences.

00:01:18.700 But when push comes to shove, this is not an example of a government hitting the reset button in a substantive way.

00:01:26.900 And I'm going to talk about a couple of the changes here.

00:01:29.160 I'm not going to focus on every single one.

00:01:31.620 To be honest, I don't care who the fisheries minister is.

00:01:34.180 But I am going to talk about some of the big changes that are taking place.

00:01:37.740 Because there is, I think, or let me back up.

00:01:41.360 There should be a recognition from the government that things have not been handled well.

00:01:46.540 This government does not have that humility.

00:01:50.060 Patty Hajdu is no longer in health.

00:01:52.200 Bill Blair is no longer in public safety.

00:01:54.560 Those two, if there were no other changes, those two should make Canadians very happy.

00:01:59.360 Patty Hajdu, who maligned border closures as racist before maligning people that oppose border closures, 0.60

00:02:05.740 who said you are feeding conspiracies theories if you question China's handling of COVID pandemic.

00:02:11.000 Patty Hajdu, who loves just firing off at everyone else for not wearing a mask and is then photographed hanging out in an airport lounge without a mask. 0.95

00:02:18.780 She was an unmitigated, disastrous health minister and deserves to be gone. 1.00

00:02:23.580 She's now been moved to the Indigenous Services portfolio.

00:02:27.580 She's the Minister of Indigenous Services, which is pretty much as insulting to Indigenous Canadians as Justin Trudeau going to Tofino on the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation is.

00:02:38.400 And a significant role that they've put someone who doesn't particularly handle files all that well in.

00:02:44.380 And then we have Bill Blair, who was responsible for this absolutely failed attempt to manage the border, a failed attempt to manage firearms.

00:02:54.020 He's now been shuffled out.

00:02:55.220 They've split up, actually, the public safety portfolio and the emergency preparedness file.

00:03:00.400 These used to be one, public safety and emergency preparedness.

00:03:03.300 This is for no other reason than to give him a bit of a soft landing.

00:03:06.620 So now Bill Blair is just the emergency preparedness minister and the public safety minister is Marco Mendicino, who was previously working on immigration.

00:03:15.000 A couple of other changes here.

00:03:16.640 We have Mark Garneau, who is out.

00:03:18.720 He was the most recent global affairs minister, five foreign ministers in six years.

00:03:26.220 This is the Trudeau government's legacy on this.

00:03:28.520 For all that Justin Trudeau loved to say that Canada was back, five foreign ministers in six years.

00:03:35.780 So yeah, this is now the fifth.

00:03:36.880 So we had Chrystia Freeland for a while.

00:03:38.840 Then we had François-Philippe Champagne.

00:03:41.020 And then we had Mark Garneau.

00:03:43.360 And now Melanie Jolie.

00:03:45.240 This is how we send the message to the world that Canada's back.

00:03:47.920 We send Melanie Jolie on the foreign stage. 1.00

00:03:50.620 Now, having a new foreign affairs minister does not mean you have a new foreign policy.

00:03:54.200 Canada has, despite the proclamation that, you know, it's not like the old days of Stephen Harper, we've not really done anything on the foreign stage.

00:04:02.760 And apart from failing to get a seat on the UN Security Council, then failing to get our pick elected to the head of the OECD, Canada has not reasserted itself on the foreign stage.

00:04:14.020 Not sure if the Trudeau government is going to try to do that with Melanie Jolie or if they're just giving up.

00:04:19.420 But nevertheless, that's where we are.

00:04:21.800 And one amusing takeaway from the cabinet is that Mona Fortier, who was the minister for middle class prosperity.

00:04:29.840 And you may remember, this is the woman who couldn't actually define what the middle class was when asked and gave this answer.

00:04:36.460 But, well, people know when they're in the middle class.

00:04:38.940 She's moved to another file, but the ministry is gone.

00:04:42.900 There's no more minister for middle class prosperity.

00:04:45.500 So, as I pointed out on Twitter, I don't know if that means the middle class is sufficiently prosperous or if the government just realized that this was a make-work position that was platitudinal in nature and achieved nothing.

00:04:57.220 My hope is that it's the second.

00:04:59.000 But, again, I don't really think there's been any introspection.

00:05:01.540 So, you look at this and say, and by the way, the reports are that Marc Garneau is going to be headed to be an ambassador in France or something, which is what they did to Stéphane Dion.

00:05:10.960 So, Europe is now the dumping ground for problematic Canadian ministers.

00:05:15.600 We just, like, send them somewhere else so we don't need to deal with them.

00:05:18.800 And as we saw with John McCallum, sending problem MPs to become ambassadors, in his case China, doesn't always work out all that well for Canada.

00:05:27.820 But even though we see some changes, like Harjit Sajjan gone out of defense and replaced by a minister, Anita Anand, another one where Sajjan shouldn't have been in the cabinet at all.

00:05:41.640 How he managed to get international development when here's a guy who oversaw what was increasingly looking like a defense department in which every single leadership member, not actually, but, you know, facetiously, was under investigation for some sort of sexual misconduct.

00:05:57.720 And he was the guy at the top, but he still gets to stay in cabinet.

00:06:00.620 So, obviously, the government is responding to some problems and scandals.

00:06:06.100 The fact that, yeah, Haidu wasn't cutting it at hell, Sajjan couldn't be at defense, and Garneau wasn't doing well at foreign affairs and all of that.

00:06:13.380 But at the same time, they're really just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic here.

00:06:17.840 They're not accepting that they've done things wrong.

00:06:21.160 They're not accepting that they need a course correction.

00:06:23.220 In fact, I bet when the throne speech comes back, Justin Trudeau's message is going to be,

00:06:28.960 we've been doing a great job.

00:06:30.280 Let us just keep going.

00:06:31.680 Things are great.

00:06:32.880 We've just, you know, made a little couple of tiny, teeny, teeny little tweaks here.

00:06:36.860 It's barely noticeable.

00:06:38.380 They're wee.

00:06:39.000 They're inoffensive.

00:06:40.080 Just, you know, just a couple little tiny changes, trim around the edges.

00:06:43.880 But the reality is this is a sinking ship.

00:06:46.480 The Trudeau government is not adequately performing in a way that is serving Canadians.

00:06:55.180 And the reality that they've taken these bad ministers out, but aren't even just saying,

00:06:59.640 you know what, you're done.

00:07:01.260 They're just moving them to other files.

00:07:03.160 In some cases, significant files suggest the government is not planning to change anything else.

00:07:09.000 And why would they?

00:07:10.360 Even if Justin Trudeau was reelected with another minority, the liberals won.

00:07:14.380 They won.

00:07:14.860 Now, as I said after the election, when a lot of conservative defenders were saying,

00:07:19.460 well, you know, the conservatives kept Justin Trudeau from getting a majority.

00:07:23.240 So they really won.

00:07:24.220 No, a win is a win and a loss is a loss.

00:07:26.080 The conservatives lost.

00:07:27.360 The liberals won.

00:07:28.100 And even if they won with a narrow mandate, they still are doing well.

00:07:32.680 They're in government.

00:07:34.040 That's what you want in an election to end up in government.

00:07:37.240 And I have no reason to suspect that the NDP and the Bloc Québécois will not continue to

00:07:42.540 just rubber stamp whatever it is the Trudeau government is doing.

00:07:45.800 There will be terms and conditions attached to this, of course, but the liberals will hand

00:07:50.160 it over.

00:07:51.040 They're more likely to find a willing dance partner in the NDP and the Bloc than in the

00:07:56.340 conservatives.

00:07:57.040 So the liberals have won.

00:07:59.000 Justin Trudeau has another mandate.

00:08:00.580 And I think this one will probably be a bit more stable than the last.

00:08:05.040 And if you want an example of how the liberals are not eager to do any sort of course correction,

00:08:09.340 just look at how the vaccine mandate has become the new fight for members of parliament in the

00:08:14.560 class of 2021 before they've even taken their seats.

00:08:18.280 I talked about this last week.

00:08:20.340 The reality is you have MPs who were duly elected by their constituents, irrespective of

00:08:27.480 their vaccination status, or perhaps because the constituents knew and it was important

00:08:31.660 to them, whatever the case is.

00:08:33.100 But MPs who are duly elected, if they're not vaccinated, will not be allowed to take their

00:08:37.640 seats when the House of Commons resumes.

00:08:40.280 And this is thanks to a closed door meeting in the Board of Eternal Economy made up of members

00:08:45.380 from all parties.

00:08:46.180 But of course, the conservatives are outnumbered in which they adopted a vaccine mandate for MPs.

00:08:52.260 Now, this is what the liberals have decided to make a priority.

00:08:55.800 They're not talking about how can we work together?

00:08:58.900 How can we serve Canadians?

00:09:00.160 They're saying, how can we make sure that we continue to drive wedge after wedge on vaccination

00:09:05.680 choice for conservatives?

00:09:07.980 Because they think that the conservatives are the crazy ones for believing that vaccination

00:09:11.680 is a personal choice.

00:09:13.120 They think that that is not a position compatible with Canadian society right now.

00:09:18.140 And they're moving more and more towards trying to mandate vaccination wherever they can.

00:09:22.840 They can't, you know, drive up with a van to your front door and jab you against your

00:09:26.560 will.

00:09:27.080 But they can put vaccine mandates in more and more places so more and more Canadians are

00:09:32.840 subject to a mandate in some kind.

00:09:34.700 And in this case, it is members of parliament who have to play ball.

00:09:39.160 So the conservative MPs who are unvaccinated, I don't know how many there are.

00:09:43.760 There are a handful of them.

00:09:45.140 But there are more that I think are taking the position I do, which is that you get vaccinated,

00:09:49.260 don't get vaccinated, that's your choice, but let's stand against mandating it.

00:09:55.140 And one of them notably has been rookie member of parliament, Leslyn Lewis.

00:09:59.100 Now, I interviewed Leslyn Lewis when she was seeking the leadership of the Conservative Party

00:10:03.680 of Canada back in, I think it was March of 2020.

00:10:06.940 And she has been very vocal on Twitter in the last few days, standing up for the idea

00:10:12.540 of choice.

00:10:13.100 Now, I don't know or care whether Leslyn Lewis is vaccinated.

00:10:16.340 She is seeking or she has won her first election.

00:10:20.000 So she's going to be the member of parliament for Haldim and Norfolk.

00:10:24.380 And she's been pointing out the reality of this being an oppressive measure that is inherently

00:10:31.540 undemocratic.

00:10:32.820 She says in one tweet here, a philosopher once said that the British serfs were free to leave

00:10:36.760 their lord's feudal land and go to the city to starve.

00:10:39.820 When a choice leaves people with no means of support, then it is an illusion created

00:10:44.540 by those with power.

00:10:46.160 It appears to give options that are really ultimatums.

00:10:49.900 She also took another tweet from Stockwell Day, who was pointing out a lot of the unfair

00:10:55.780 criticism to Leslyn Lewis.

00:10:57.240 And she said that the media is trying to paint her as a reckless lunatic to lynch her into

00:11:01.560 silence.

00:11:02.380 She's not going to sit at the back of the bus. 1.00

00:11:04.800 She is not going to be silenced.

00:11:06.520 And she's continued in recent days to stand up for medical privacy, to stand up against 0.85

00:11:12.080 vaccine mandates and be very vocal in a way that I think conservative members of parliament

00:11:16.820 need to be on this issue.

00:11:19.560 Glenn Motts, another MP.

00:11:20.980 I think we've had him on the show in the past, or I've certainly interviewed him elsewhere.

00:11:24.760 He is an MP in Alberta, good advocate for firearms.

00:11:27.900 He's saying if we want to fight the pandemic, we need to be unified, not divided.

00:11:31.760 And he says he's opposed to coerced vaccinations and feels strongly about that as he feels about

00:11:38.280 using vaccines.

00:11:39.540 So he's not anti-vax, despite how the media and the left would love to characterize him.

00:11:44.160 He supports the right for people to make the decision for themselves, which is so critical

00:11:49.620 in this and other areas of public policy.

00:11:53.940 So we have a couple of MPs that are speaking out.

00:11:57.860 And Erin O'Toole has, I don't know if you've noticed, flip-flopped on this a couple of 0.92

00:12:01.560 times in the last few days.

00:12:03.480 At first, he was saying, OK, this is wrong.

00:12:05.820 And then he was saying, well, yeah, but we'll just, we'll accept it.

00:12:08.700 But, you know, we'll shake our finger at the Board of Internal Economy.

00:12:11.820 We don't like it, but yeah, well, what can you do?

00:12:14.400 And, you know, look, in a practical sense, maybe he's right about that.

00:12:17.180 But I would like to see the Conservatives making a bigger stink.

00:12:19.900 The reason they aren't, and this is the regrettable part about Canada right now, is that they are

00:12:24.980 in the minority.

00:12:26.620 People like you listening, presumably people like me, those of us who believe this is a matter

00:12:31.300 of individual choice.

00:12:32.420 We are in the minority, in a country that is increasingly moving away from personal choice

00:12:37.680 and individual liberty and individual responsibility, and moving towards a society that welcomes government

00:12:44.160 fiat and government control over individual decisions.

00:12:48.160 And this is why the Liberals continue to use vaccination as a wedge, because they know that

00:12:54.340 there are more people on their side than there are on the other.

00:12:57.500 Now, the way you do that is by impressing upon people the point of individual choice and

00:13:02.980 helping people understand that the right to choose is separate and distinct from the substance

00:13:09.200 or moral worth of what a particular choice is, in the same way that support for free speech

00:13:15.200 is detached from what a particular expression of free speech is.

00:13:20.940 And I do a lot of advocacy on free speech.

00:13:23.160 I do public speaking on it.

00:13:24.360 I talk about it on the show, and that's one of the hardest hurdles to overcome.

00:13:27.920 People that are so focused on the substance of speech, they don't think of the bigger picture.

00:13:34.280 So you say, I support free speech.

00:13:36.120 And they say, but what if someone says X?

00:13:37.720 I say, I don't care.

00:13:38.980 I don't care what it is.

00:13:40.960 I don't have to find a joke funny to defend someone's right to say it.

00:13:43.980 I don't have to find an expression of speech tasteful to support its status as free speech.

00:13:50.320 And these are going to be, again, very related issues.

00:13:54.980 That event in Alberta, which I spoke, I was talking about how government's universal monopoly

00:14:00.420 on health care is a conduit for government to control individual decisions.

00:14:04.640 Because as we've seen in the pandemic, they get to make hospital capacity the trump card

00:14:09.640 for how people live their lives.

00:14:12.240 Because they can say, well, you have your own choice, but we've got to protect the health

00:14:15.740 care system.

00:14:16.360 But a lot of these things are interconnected.

00:14:19.820 A society and a culture that doesn't value freedom is not that far removed from one that

00:14:24.400 doesn't value freedom of speech.

00:14:26.640 And we know that the liberals are, as one of their first orders of business, it's going

00:14:30.660 to be, mark my words, in the first hundred days.

00:14:33.080 I don't make predictions.

00:14:34.340 This is a prediction.

00:14:35.800 In the first hundred days, Justin Trudeau's government is going to reintroduce its ban on

00:14:40.760 internet hate speech, on so-called internet hate speech.

00:14:44.100 In the last parliament, this was Bill 36.

00:14:46.700 It will presumably have a new number when it comes back.

00:14:49.160 But this is going to be one of the very first things the liberals do to try to reopen

00:14:53.920 regulation of online speech under the Canadian Human Rights Act.

00:14:57.940 This isn't Bill C-10.

00:14:59.240 That's coming back too.

00:15:00.460 That's a bit different.

00:15:01.400 That's also something to be concerned about and something we'll be watching.

00:15:05.440 But this is specifically the liberals hate speech bill.

00:15:08.200 And I noticed the conservatives yesterday, I sign up for on all the mailing lists for all

00:15:12.460 the parties at my inbox makes me want to pull my hair out.

00:15:15.180 But it's important to know what they're saying as they go about this.

00:15:19.000 The conservatives sent out a fundraising email, fundraising, trying to ask Canadians for money

00:15:25.240 on the back of this liberal ban to regulate speech.

00:15:30.260 So what they said here is that Justin Trudeau won't bring back parliament, but he's already

00:15:34.420 planning to introduce a bill that will censor the internet and regulate your free speech.

00:15:38.760 Even liberal ministers are acknowledging that this new censorship bill is more extreme

00:15:43.140 and far-reaching than their last attempt with Bill C-10.

00:15:46.060 That was a line from Stephen Gilbeau.

00:15:48.440 In a society that values freedom of speech and expression, we can't afford to leave the

00:15:52.080 door open for a massive abuse of power on the rights of Canadians.

00:15:55.900 And they're saying that the plan to censor the internet and restrict your free speech is

00:15:59.620 in full swing.

00:16:00.720 So conservatives must come together to stand up for free speech.

00:16:03.980 I look at that and go rah, rah.

00:16:05.400 That's all well and good.

00:16:06.360 But I note that before the election, the conservatives were silent, absolutely silent on C-36.

00:16:14.380 Aaron O'Toole, and believe me, I look, did not say a word about it, did not say a single

00:16:20.260 word until I asked about it during the campaign.

00:16:23.460 The conservatives didn't post any messaging on it, didn't put out any press release.

00:16:27.300 The only comment was from one shadow minister, a critic who said something.

00:16:32.800 But even then, it wasn't a proactive statement.

00:16:34.540 It was in response to a media inquiry.

00:16:37.420 So, I mean, Ezra Levant retweeted the tweet that I put out about that with a screenshot

00:16:42.380 and said, yeah, yeah, they're just doing it for money.

00:16:45.020 It's not really real.

00:16:45.960 And to be honest, I think it's a bit of that.

00:16:48.520 I also think it's a bit of now that the election's over, conservatives start feeling they could

00:16:52.300 be conservative again.

00:16:53.680 This was the challenge with Andrew Scheer in 2019.

00:16:56.220 And to be fair, Andrew Scheer admitted that.

00:16:59.420 I did an interview with him in August of last year when he was on his way out, and he said

00:17:04.260 in retrospect, you know, he wished he had just been more himself, because he is a conservative.

00:17:09.100 He does believe in these things.

00:17:10.680 But when a conservative is eyeing the finish line, they get all of these activists that

00:17:15.880 jump on that say the road to victory is to move more and more to the left.

00:17:19.140 And we're going to see Aaron O'Toole probably start talking about these red meat issues now 0.95

00:17:23.860 because he's not going after centrist Canadians.

00:17:26.420 He's instead trying to cling to his own leadership.

00:17:30.460 And look, I mean, I take the position that better late than never.

00:17:33.580 I want the conservatives to fight this because the conservatives managed to, whatever you

00:17:37.440 think of them, they managed to sufficiently raise alarm bells about C-10 that the liberals 0.97

00:17:44.100 didn't have a mandate to put forward Bill C-10 in the last session of parliament.

00:17:48.280 The liberals were prepared to just, like, steamroll that one right ahead.

00:17:51.900 And Michael Geist, a fantastic advocate at the University of Ottawa, had started to raise

00:17:56.780 questions about it and point out why it was so dangerous.

00:18:00.520 Then the conservatives picked it up and decided to make that a hill to die on, which, again,

00:18:05.280 I think was important.

00:18:06.720 But in doing so, the conservatives managed to slow it down enough that it didn't really

00:18:12.400 have a road forward in the last parliament.

00:18:15.160 They better be prepared to do that, not just with whatever C-10's successor is, but also

00:18:21.080 with C-36's successor, because these are things, as I've said, that need to be the hill to die

00:18:27.000 on for conservatives and anyone in Canada who cares about freedom.

00:18:30.760 We've got to take a break.

00:18:31.840 When we come back, more of The Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.

00:18:34.660 Welcome back to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:18:42.500 Let's talk about British Columbia politics for a couple of moments here.

00:18:46.320 Aaron Gunn, who has been on the show in the past, was seeking for just a couple of weeks

00:18:51.260 the leadership of the B.C. liberals.

00:18:53.320 Now, this is where I have to put the obligatory disclaimer.

00:18:56.980 The B.C. liberals are, for the most part, for the most part, and not exclusively, the

00:19:03.220 choice party for right-of-center British Columbians.

00:19:07.060 Now, there is a B.C. conservative party, but it doesn't really have much of an operation

00:19:12.640 to speak of.

00:19:13.320 It doesn't have electoral success.

00:19:15.100 The B.C. liberals, that is the party for conservative British Columbians generally.

00:19:21.960 And that is a big source of the confusion.

00:19:25.140 And in fact, it was one of the things that Aaron Gunn wanted to rectify.

00:19:27.640 He thought the B.C. liberals needed a new name.

00:19:30.000 He thought there was brand confusion there.

00:19:31.900 And he thought the party needed to establish itself on firm footing as a conservative party

00:19:36.940 for British Columbians as an alternative to the NDP, which is currently in government

00:19:41.760 in B.C.

00:19:42.900 And Aaron Gunn was going to be a disruptor, clearly.

00:19:45.440 He was coming not from the political class, but from his role as a commentator, as an activist.

00:19:50.380 He had a huge following, which is why when he started saying he was mauling a leadership

00:19:54.680 bid earlier this year, we sat down with him and spent, I think it was like, you know,

00:19:58.260 20, 25 minutes or so talking about a range of things.

00:20:01.140 You should go and check out that interview.

00:20:03.060 So a couple of weeks ago, Aaron Gunn launches his campaign.

00:20:05.940 A lot of excitement.

00:20:07.260 A couple of his colleagues saying, oh, this guy's too controversial.

00:20:10.120 He shouldn't be allowed to run.

00:20:11.680 But nevertheless, he's going selling memberships, getting ready for it.

00:20:15.520 Well, last week, a cabal of individuals behind closed doors decided that he does not have

00:20:22.320 the right to seek the leadership of his party.

00:20:25.880 And they decided that he would be banned from running as a leadership candidate.

00:20:30.760 And here's what they say.

00:20:32.340 To approve Mr. Gunn's candidacy would be inconsistent with the B.C.

00:20:37.840 Liberal Party's commitment to reconciliation, diversity, and acceptance of all British Columbians.

00:20:44.920 So it would not be sufficiently committed to reconciliation, diversity, or acceptance

00:20:49.560 to have him in there.

00:20:50.860 Now, again, there's no evidence given as to what he said or done

00:20:54.400 that is insufficiently committed to reconciliation, acceptance, and diversity.

00:20:59.840 But that's the cudgel they're using to keep Aaron Gunn out of the race.

00:21:03.900 And whether you like him or not, whether you would have voted for him or not,

00:21:06.660 whether you are in British Columbia or not,

00:21:09.440 surely these things can underscore the point that it should be members in parties

00:21:13.600 who make these decisions, not backroom groups of individuals,

00:21:17.680 like happened in the Conservative Party of Canada leadership race with Jim Carahalios,

00:21:22.700 to give a recent example, like happens in nomination meetings that we take aim at all the time.

00:21:28.940 And I say I was a beneficiary once of an appointment that took place behind closed doors.

00:21:34.720 When I ran in Ontario in 2018 for the Ontario PCs, I was seeking the nomination.

00:21:39.440 There were actually two other candidates that were seeking the nomination.

00:21:43.080 One of them had been doing it for quite a while.

00:21:45.380 And then the party decided just a few weeks out from the election,

00:21:48.220 they were going to scrap the nomination race and appoint me.

00:21:51.160 Now, this was something...

00:21:51.960 So people may say, well, who are you to talk about appointments?

00:21:55.340 That's the reason.

00:21:56.680 It's unfair to people who are in the race.

00:21:58.820 Even if they're the appointed ones, it's unfair,

00:22:01.080 because it is the members who are supposed to be the ones to make these decisions.

00:22:06.120 It's the members in parties who get to decide their leadership.

00:22:10.520 So let's talk about this and what it means and also what comes next.

00:22:14.000 Aaron Gunn joins me on the line now.

00:22:16.400 Aaron, it is good to talk to you.

00:22:18.160 Thank you for having me, Andrew.

00:22:19.920 Aaron, it's good to talk to you.

00:22:21.300 Tell me, first off, since you've been disqualified,

00:22:23.380 how's the response been from people, either your supporters or just in general?

00:22:28.500 I've been completely overwhelmed by the response.

00:22:30.680 You have hundreds of people tearing up their memberships, calling in to get refunded.

00:22:38.100 You have up to and including former MLAs of the party who have done that,

00:22:43.480 and people saying this is kind of the last straw.

00:22:46.360 There's a lot of people that were already frustrated with the B.C. Liberals after the last election.

00:22:50.420 I think there were a lot who were ready to walk away from the party

00:22:53.200 and saw this leadership race as an opportunity to give it one more chance,

00:22:57.800 and now they're just throwing their hands up in the air and walking away.

00:23:01.220 And it's hard to obviously blame them when you have this kind of a situation

00:23:05.280 where they use fabricated reasons and narratives

00:23:08.660 and basically go along with exactly what the NDP was saying

00:23:11.680 to try to allow their preferred candidate to win the race.

00:23:17.300 Yeah, let's talk about those fabricated reasons.

00:23:20.400 The release that the B.C. Liberals put out on the weekend when they disqualified you

00:23:24.100 was that they felt your candidacy would, quote,

00:23:27.080 be inconsistent with the B.C. Liberal Party's commitment to reconciliation, diversity,

00:23:32.940 and acceptance of all British Columbians.

00:23:35.500 So setting aside for a moment that it's the members that get to decide

00:23:38.920 whether your views are consistent or inconsistent with those of the party,

00:23:42.240 what was the evidence that they were holding up

00:23:44.560 that you were not sufficiently committed to reconciliation, diversity, and acceptance?

00:23:49.600 Well, first of all, let me say that this seven-person unelected board

00:23:54.580 that made this decision, none of the people on it were Indigenous.

00:23:57.420 And in fact, the main Indigenous representative of the party

00:24:00.520 is one of the candidates who's actually running in the race, Ellis Ross,

00:24:04.180 and he publicly stated both before and after this decision

00:24:07.060 that I should be allowed to run

00:24:08.620 and that none of these kind of accusations were true or based in reality.

00:24:12.840 They showed me, I can actually tell you,

00:24:14.780 with the four tweets they highlighted going through my years

00:24:18.220 and thousands of posts on social media,

00:24:20.520 one was a complete nothing burger,

00:24:23.140 and the other three were all derivative of each other,

00:24:26.420 where I basically pushed back against the notion

00:24:29.160 that Canada was a genocidal state that committed genocide 0.84

00:24:32.860 in an attempt to exterminate Indigenous people.

00:24:35.620 That was, that's literally the only thing.

00:24:38.540 You'd think that there'd be some, you know,

00:24:41.460 super nefarious or politically incorrect thing that I had said,

00:24:46.120 but it literally was just saying Canada did not commit genocide.

00:24:49.180 We did not do something on par with the Holocaust 0.97

00:24:52.100 or what happened in Rwanda

00:24:53.600 and that we shouldn't be throwing that word around willy-nilly

00:24:56.920 and, you know, slandering our own country.

00:25:00.740 So that's what it was all about.

00:25:02.780 That's the excuse they decided to go with.

00:25:05.680 But look, I think it's clear they made up their mind

00:25:07.500 before I entered their race 0.74

00:25:08.840 that they were going to reject my candidacy.

00:25:11.020 I think as we signed up hundreds and thousands of new people,

00:25:14.540 they became very determined and panicked to stop the candidacy.

00:25:18.340 And this is the rationale they thought

00:25:21.820 would be most politically palatable to the mainstream media.

00:25:25.680 So you've been active on social media.

00:25:28.420 You've done a lot of commentary.

00:25:30.400 You've engaged in vigorous debate.

00:25:32.460 You've made videos, documentaries,

00:25:34.360 and all that they found that they felt was disqualifying

00:25:38.540 for you to be the leader of the BC Liberals

00:25:40.440 or a contender for the leader

00:25:41.680 was believing that Canada is not a genocidal nation.

00:25:45.520 That's your controversial,

00:25:47.140 that's their silver bullet to end your political campaign. 0.92

00:25:51.020 Yeah, that's exactly.

00:25:52.200 I've been referring to different people

00:25:54.420 as it's, you know,

00:25:55.820 the worst attempted kind of character assassination

00:25:58.360 that I've ever seen in Canadian politics.

00:26:00.160 I mean, this is not a,

00:26:02.240 the fact that despite Canada's many mistakes

00:26:06.580 in its past as every country

00:26:07.840 and the fact that we lived in a much different world

00:26:10.520 back in the 19th century,

00:26:12.360 the accusation that we actually committed genocide,

00:26:16.340 that we attempted to exterminate,

00:26:18.280 in essence, Indigenous people,

00:26:19.860 is not a view that is widely held by Canadians,

00:26:22.900 certainly not by party members or Conservatives,

00:26:26.020 and nor by most historians.

00:26:27.480 So it's a, it's a, it's, it's bizarre.

00:26:31.660 It shows how desperate they were, I think.

00:26:33.960 And I think they're disappointed

00:26:34.960 that they couldn't find some kind of smoking gun. 0.94

00:26:37.840 But this just shows that they're shameless.

00:26:40.120 They don't, they don't care

00:26:40.780 that they didn't find anything.

00:26:41.720 They'd manufacture a reason.

00:26:43.460 I know that the danger here

00:26:45.680 is that you may or may not have won.

00:26:47.260 No one knows.

00:26:47.980 You would have worked hard, of course,

00:26:49.320 and put together a good campaign,

00:26:50.580 but you've been denied the opportunity to see

00:26:53.400 if you could even win.

00:26:54.980 And I have to ask what you think,

00:26:57.000 and you may not know one way or another,

00:26:58.580 but what you think was the motivating factor?

00:27:00.420 Do you think it was that these people in that room

00:27:02.720 thought that you might actually win

00:27:04.180 and they didn't want that?

00:27:05.380 Or do you think they were inherently resistant

00:27:07.540 to what you were trying to do?

00:27:09.220 And they don't want to reconcile with the fact

00:27:11.200 that perhaps the BC Liberal Party's future

00:27:13.580 is in appealing more

00:27:15.340 to being a traditional Conservative Party?

00:27:18.040 So I think there were two things, Andrew.

00:27:19.860 I think the first is that they knew

00:27:22.600 that we were going to win.

00:27:24.120 They saw the memberships rolling in.

00:27:25.760 And we had basically been on the campaign trail

00:27:27.360 for two weeks.

00:27:28.060 We were outselling any of the other campaigns.

00:27:30.440 So I think it may have been a different decision

00:27:32.360 if they thought, you know,

00:27:33.840 we'll let this guy into the race

00:27:35.620 and he's not going to win anyways.

00:27:37.280 So there's no need in stirring up all this controversy

00:27:39.760 and dealing with the blowback.

00:27:41.200 So I think the first thing is that

00:27:42.460 they thought that we were going to win.

00:27:45.620 And they knew that this was their only move left.

00:27:47.840 And, you know, these party insiders

00:27:49.440 need to protect their little enclaves of power

00:27:52.780 they've carved out for themselves.

00:27:54.380 I do think there was a second reason.

00:27:56.560 And that's because people within the party

00:27:58.800 and the party elites,

00:27:59.960 despite what they say publicly,

00:28:02.080 didn't want to have a real debate

00:28:03.760 and discussion about policy

00:28:05.940 and about some of the past policy decisions

00:28:08.620 of this party,

00:28:09.740 whether that's the carbon tax,

00:28:11.600 whether that's money laundering

00:28:13.260 and how it's contributed

00:28:14.280 to the rise in housing prices,

00:28:16.100 or whether that is the opioid epidemic

00:28:18.860 that got,

00:28:19.680 although it keeps getting worse under the NDP,

00:28:21.960 it really escalated

00:28:23.000 while the BC Liberals were still in power

00:28:24.760 and some of their failed policies on that front.

00:28:27.340 So I think it's a combination

00:28:28.340 of they didn't want to have

00:28:29.300 these difficult conversations

00:28:30.760 and the fact that they thought

00:28:32.580 that we were going to win

00:28:33.840 or we have a real chance of winning.

00:28:37.140 You've got a number of options ahead of you.

00:28:39.320 You can just, you know,

00:28:40.380 exit politics altogether

00:28:41.680 and go back to doing what you were doing.

00:28:43.420 You could fight this

00:28:44.760 through some, you know,

00:28:45.820 perhaps internal or external means.

00:28:47.560 You could join another party,

00:28:48.740 run as an independent.

00:28:49.840 I know that it's still very early days,

00:28:52.180 but what are you planning in the future?

00:28:54.840 Well, in the days ahead,

00:28:56.160 we're definitely going to have an announcement.

00:28:57.820 There's a couple of things

00:28:58.580 that we're working through

00:28:59.600 with regard to my future plans

00:29:01.160 and how we can still bring common sense

00:29:03.420 back to British Columbia

00:29:04.540 and back to Canada.

00:29:06.260 But I will tell you this,

00:29:07.480 if you think this is the end of our fight

00:29:10.300 or the end of the road,

00:29:11.160 you couldn't be more wrong.

00:29:12.940 This fight is really just beginning.

00:29:15.380 All options are on the table.

00:29:17.440 We're looking at recall campaigns.

00:29:19.300 We're talking about the potential

00:29:20.680 of forming new parties

00:29:22.240 or reviving the BC Conservatives.

00:29:25.220 And I also haven't taken

00:29:26.400 certain legal options

00:29:27.380 off the table as well,

00:29:29.320 given some of the lies

00:29:30.840 and misrepresentations

00:29:32.200 that have been made

00:29:32.880 in public statements.

00:29:34.220 So we'll see, Andrew,

00:29:35.440 but it's going to be,

00:29:37.960 I'm sure,

00:29:39.180 an interesting announcement

00:29:40.040 in the days and weeks ahead.

00:29:42.780 All right.

00:29:43.340 Well, we'll make sure

00:29:43.840 to keep an eye out for that.

00:29:44.860 Aaron Gunn,

00:29:45.320 thanks very much for coming on.

00:29:47.260 Thanks for having me, Andrew.

00:29:48.640 That was Aaron Gunn,

00:29:49.980 disqualified BC Liberals

00:29:51.820 leadership candidate.

00:29:52.820 We'll keep an eye out

00:29:53.500 for that announcement.

00:29:54.720 I was hoping I could get it out of him,

00:29:56.100 but sadly,

00:29:56.960 he was keeping his cards

00:29:58.360 close to his chest there.

00:29:59.480 But we will certainly

00:30:00.540 follow his campaign

00:30:01.820 or whatever becomes

00:30:03.080 in the next few days

00:30:04.480 and weeks here.

00:30:05.320 That does it for me for today.

00:30:06.820 My thanks to all of you

00:30:07.860 for tuning in to the program.

00:30:09.940 This is Canada's

00:30:11.000 most irreverent talk show

00:30:12.260 here on True North,

00:30:13.720 The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:30:14.580 Thank you, God bless,

00:30:15.580 and good day, Canada.

00:30:16.880 Thanks for listening

00:30:17.680 to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:30:19.120 Support the program

00:30:19.940 by donating to True North

00:30:21.160 at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - October 27, 2021

Despite cabinet tweaks, Trudeau is planning more of the same

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