Juno News - Do the Indigenous ‘Land Back’ activists HATE Canada？

00:00:00.000 Radical Indigenous activists in Canada have become far more brazen in recent years about

00:00:08.020 what their true intentions are. When they say land back, what exactly does that mean? When

00:00:13.100 they accuse you of being a settler, when they accuse Canada of being a genocidal state,

00:00:18.580 what does that mean? Many of these radical Indigenous activists seek to delegitimize

00:00:23.800 Canada as a nation. They seek to delegitimize your rightful presence in Canada, your

00:00:29.760 Canadian identity by labeling you as a settler on stolen land. And what is land back? Well,

00:00:35.840 land back at its core is the idea that these activists seek to have a racial ethno state

00:00:42.620 in Canada for their own tribe. And yet none of this is seen as a concern or an issue by anyone

00:00:47.960 with any political power in Canada. It should be even more concerning when these same activists

00:00:52.960 describe terrorist attacks in the Middle East, like what we saw on October 7th as decolonization

00:00:58.220 and what they seek to do in Canada is to decolonize Canada. Are you concerned about any of that yet?

00:01:03.640 Well, you might be after you hear what our next guest has to say. Well, joining us now on the

00:01:08.880 Faulkner Show is author and tradesperson from Winnipeg, Michael Melanson. He recently published

00:01:15.340 this story in C2C Journal, the Indigenous land back movement, a landmine for Canadians. Michael,

00:01:22.980 thank you so much for joining us on the show. Thank you for having me. So just walk us through

00:01:27.860 what land back is, what this movement is, and why Canadians should be paying attention to it.

00:01:34.080 It's more of a political sentiment than anything else. It's not an organized movement.

00:01:39.120 Within land back, there's various factions. Some of them are very militant. More or less,

00:01:44.960 they're trying to get land back one way or the other, either jurisdictionally, politically,

00:01:48.520 or just taking over like in Oka, for instance, or Caledonia.

00:01:53.200 Right. And where does this idea originate? Is this Canadian or does this come from other places?

00:01:59.540 It originated in America in around 2010, I believe. I think it started with somebody trying

00:02:05.960 to get the Mount Rushmore back, the National Park back to, I believe it was Blackfoot, Blackfoot or Sioux.

00:02:14.840 Right. And why, you know, what are your concerns about this movement specifically?

00:02:22.640 I think it's racialist. Generally, they want to kick out people who own the land,

00:02:28.060 anybody they identify as several colonialists. Theoretically, it would also include tribes that,

00:02:33.420 other tribes. Interesting. So these, these advocates, you argue, are, are advocating for

00:02:43.120 ethno-nationalism and racial nationalism and, and taking land, you know, taking land for their

00:02:49.040 own people. Are there indigenous voices that oppose this?

00:02:54.100 If there are, I can't name any offhand. No.

00:02:57.180 So, so it seems to be quite prevalent, at least, you know, this, this, this idea has,

00:03:03.120 has a lot of influence among indigenous activists.

00:03:07.580 Yes, I think so. Especially at a grassroots level, there are some academics who support the

00:03:11.780 movement, but it's a, is a populist movement.

00:03:16.140 In your opinion, you know, we, we've talked about some of the more hardcore indigenous activism

00:03:21.380 that, that clearly is anti-Canadian, right? They, they label Canada, a settler colonial,

00:03:27.920 a colonialist state. They, they, they are demeaning towards Canadians, labeling us as settlers.

00:03:34.680 You know, just to be blunt about this, do these activists hate Canada?

00:03:40.660 I think so. I mean, if they call Canada genocidal enterprise, how can you not hate such a state?

00:03:46.520 And, and so this idea, right, this idea that, you know, Canada's genocidal, it seems as though,

00:03:53.960 Michael, they're trying to undermine Canada's existence and, and basically argue that Canada has,

00:04:00.760 has no, no basis to exist as a country because we've been built on genocide, right? We've been

00:04:06.760 built on, on colonialism. Is the idea that they're trying to tear down this country and, and perhaps

00:04:12.120 rebuild it into something else? Yeah, I, I entirely agree. I think the first step for the

00:04:16.780 aboriginal, aboriginal nationalism is delegitimize Canada and then worry about the fine details of 0.83

00:04:22.380 creating a new nation state. And is it, is it just so politically dangerous for politicians to stand

00:04:28.800 up to this? Um, or, or, or is it that politicians look at it and say, oh, this is quite fringe. You know,

00:04:34.060 we're not going to, we're not going to waste political capital opposing this. I say that because

00:04:38.400 I believe it was an NDP member of parliament, Leah Gazan, who, um, in 2022 put forward a motion that

00:04:46.040 basically labeled Canada, a genocidal country, uh, labeled the residential school system, a genocide,

00:04:51.260 and it passed unanimously. Not a single conservative MP voted against that motion. I'm just curious. We're

00:04:58.400 like, is this, is this too politically dangerous for, for politicians to oppose and stand up to this

00:05:04.860 and say, no, we are absolutely legitimate. This is absurd. What these activists are saying.

00:05:10.940 Yeah. Yeah. I think it's definitely part of that. Um, politicians are afraid of the fallout.

00:05:16.540 If they say there was no genocide, then they get labeled a denialist and there's no political win

00:05:21.580 for any political party. Um, I think the Gazan's bill who is my MP by the way. Oh, is that right?

00:05:27.500 It was a catastrophe for Canada. I mean, I don't know how we ever come back from that. It'd be great

00:05:34.220 to see some party. We can't throw support for the bill, but that's not forthcoming at this point.

00:05:39.820 I agree. You know, it's one of those things that these motions are symbolic, but that symbolism

00:05:46.380 matters a lot. And for the Canadian government to, uh, to find itself guilty of genocide when the

00:05:52.460 evidence is not there to support it is shocking. Really. I couldn't agree more. There needs to be

00:05:57.340 more attention on this. I'd love it if the next government, um, you know, goes in and tries to

00:06:02.620 reverse that motion going forward. You know, in this article, you draw parallels between the land

00:06:07.660 back movement and Hamas in Palestine because of their direct support. In many cases, many of these

00:06:14.060 indigenous activists openly supporting Hamas. This, this to me is the most dangerous part. 0.99

00:06:19.660 Uh, absolutely. Uh, after October 7th, a lot of movements characterized, uh, the Hamas attacked

00:06:26.140 as decolonization. Um, that's kind of an umbrella term, but it can mean that kind of barbaric violence. 0.93

00:06:33.820 Right. And so I, I guess, I guess you could play it out this way, right? If, if, if that's what

00:06:39.500 decolonization means in their eyes, these indigenous activists, what, what happened on October 7th,

00:06:46.220 and they use the term decolonization in Canada to advocate for their own means,

00:06:51.580 I guess the, I guess it would logically play out that they believe what happened in October

00:06:55.660 and October 7th was justified as a means of, of, of fighting back against settler colonialists.

00:07:01.500 The same thing they accuse Canadians of being, I mean, that is insanity. Surely that, that should be, 1.00

00:07:07.500 be a major concern from, from most Canadians, you would think. Uh, I, I would hope so. And at that,

00:07:13.420 at that point, I wonder if some politicians just think it is a fringe movement, try and be dismissive

00:07:17.740 of it. I, I think that's a little dangerous. I, I, I think it's a very volatile movement, very volatile

00:07:23.740 politic should not be underestimated. And I guess, you know, it, it means that these people would be

00:07:29.660 willing to use violence to achieve their own, uh, their, their own ambitions to achieve that ethno 0.60

00:07:36.940 state that they're trying to get right. I think there's a great potential for that. Um, one blessing

00:07:43.420 we have accidentally is that it's not organized yet. Uh, God help us if it ever does get that kind

00:07:48.140 of organization. Absolutely. We we've seen, we've seen confrontations and violent confrontations at

00:07:54.940 that between police, the state in Canada and indigenous people. You brought up the Oka crisis.

00:08:01.340 Um, we've seen it also in Caledonia in the early 2000s. We saw a little bit during the Wet'suwet'en 0.53

00:08:07.900 protests. What do you think? What do you think the Canadian government, perhaps a new Canadian 1.00

00:08:13.900 government, as it appears, this one is, uh, on their last sort of their last few months? What

00:08:18.860 do you think needs to be done to try to mend the relationship between indigenous Canadians

00:08:24.380 and the Canadian government? It doesn't, in my opinion, look as though where we're going is

00:08:28.060 sustainable. It's not sustainable. I, I, I'm afraid Canada has got itself into a point where they're,

00:08:34.940 they can't come back from it. They can't, they can't diffuse this. Uh, I'm really afraid. Uh,

00:08:41.660 if I was, you know, probably if I don't know what he can say about this,

00:08:45.180 I'm hopefully he's thinking of something, but I don't know what that is at this point.

00:08:49.500 You know, I, I, um, we talk a lot about the residential school, uh, debate, uh, and, and the

00:08:56.780 idea that there were these 215 bodies that have never been discovered and the damage, in my opinion,

00:09:02.140 that has done for indigenous and non-indigenous relations. A lot of Canadians look at that story and

00:09:08.220 say, well, there's no evidence to back that up. And yet we were, we were kind of beat over the

00:09:12.060 head with this story for years and it's left a really, it left a big hole. But I look at the

00:09:17.980 situation with indigenous Canadians and, and I do feel a lot of sympathy there. The amount of crime 1.00

00:09:23.660 that takes place inside of these reserves and off reserve, the domestic violence that has taken place.

00:09:30.380 Clearly, whatever we were trying to do as, as the Canadian, whatever the Canadian government was

00:09:35.260 trying to do over the past several decades, the results have not worked as something I think

00:09:40.620 new needs to happen. And I'm hoping, you know, you live in Winnipeg where there is a much larger

00:09:45.260 indigenous population. There is where I live in Toronto. What does the situation look like

00:09:49.740 on a day-to-day basis in your city? Do you see a lot of, a lot of poverty in the indigenous community

00:09:54.700 and a lot of crime in the indigenous community in Winnipeg?

00:09:57.100 Yeah, massively. It's, it's, it's kind of the moose in the room that nobody wants to talk about.

00:10:02.540 It is, it's gotten so bad that some people are starting to become brave enough to discuss

00:10:07.980 the obvious demographic. There is a lot of indigenous crime. Like if you, a lot of the encampments 1.00

00:10:13.340 downtown, it's mostly indigenous. Now we can pretend that's not the case or try to rationalize this, 0.99

00:10:20.140 something to do with colonialism. I, I think the problems go way back to not,

00:10:26.780 just, well, the section 25, uh, sorry, section 35 of the constitution, making a, a different, uh,

00:10:33.660 aboriginal rights, creating a whole different sort of area for, uh, a special class of people.

00:10:39.660 Yeah. Well, that's another thing too, right? If the Indian act, um, that's, people are now talking

00:10:45.420 about, you know, abolishing the Indian act or trying to somehow rewrite this because whatever,

00:10:50.380 whatever those rules are, um, you know, it is, it has not resulted in, in, in better,

00:10:56.380 in a better quality of life, it appears. You mentioned that Leah Gazan is your MP and Leah Gazan

00:11:02.300 is, is really becoming notorious in Canada for a radical stance on many of these issues. Um, you know,

00:11:09.340 pushing these genocide motions, uh, you know, pushing for criminalize, criminalizing residential

00:11:14.860 school denialism. Does Leah Gazan talk about indigenous crime? Not that I know of every now

00:11:21.020 and then I get flyers from her as a constituent, but she never mentioned that. So, so she's not

00:11:26.380 really interested in trying to, um, raise the alarm about her own community having these issues.

00:11:33.980 There's no, there's no, there's no real leadership that is saying, look, we need to kind of figure this

00:11:38.860 out. Um, and we need to call our own people out for some of the, some of this crime, some of these issues.

00:11:44.860 I think Gazan is ideologically committed and will not speak about the, the Aboriginal community in

00:11:50.860 those regards. If, if anything, she's going to say it's a false colonization, intergenerational trauma,

00:11:56.300 you know, the list goes on of things more or less white he's done to the, you know, Indians.

00:12:02.380 Well, let me ask you this, you know, you, you're not very optimistic about the future of indigenous,

00:12:07.420 non-indigenous relations. I don't blame you. I think as you've written in the article and,

00:12:12.300 and as has been discussed, it appears as though the situation is bad. What do you think happens

00:12:17.100 regardless of whoever takes over the government? What, what do you, what do you think happens in

00:12:21.180 10 years with this movement? Let's say they do get organized. Do you predict violence in the next 10

00:12:26.140 years? I, yeah. One of my worst nightmares is, is a riot downtown Winnipeg. Some incident happens like

00:12:33.020 a police shooting of a native, and then there's a another blockade on Portage of Maine that just becomes

00:12:37.500 violent from, you know, just by accident. And, you know, we, we've seen, you know, police,

00:12:43.900 police kind of get, get nervous to interact in those instances. They, they, they are concerned

00:12:48.060 about how their actions might be used to justify more violence, more riots. It, it, it, it does seem

00:12:55.020 to me to be a big concern. I will say the first time I, I heard about Landback was part of this idea

00:13:01.580 the, the, the Landback Lane, 1492 Landback Lane, I believe it's called, in Caledonia, just probably

00:13:07.980 two hours south of Toronto. And, uh, they were, they were involved in the toppling of the Egerton

00:13:14.940 Ryerson statue while I was a student at Ryerson University. They taunted our student club with the

00:13:19.820 head of Egerton Ryerson statue on a, on a pike. Um, and they basically, they were, they were celebrating 1.00

00:13:25.260 the fact that they, they had done this and nobody stopped them. The police didn't stop them. Nobody

00:13:31.420 got in their way. Why, why do you think it is that some of these activists appear to have, uh, appear

00:13:37.980 to be able to do whatever they want to do, but the police don't seem willing to actually stop them.

00:13:43.980 Uh, that's a head scratcher. I think it's just maybe the police are afraid of the political fallout.

00:13:48.540 Uh, in Winnipeg, we saw, you know, a similar situation on, I believe it was July, well, Canada

00:13:53.900 day, 2021, where they toppled statues on the legislative grounds, hundreds of them, police

00:13:59.020 stood by and just watched. There, there are no arrests from that event. Um, I think it was a terrible

00:14:05.020 signal to the rest of the city that these activists, you know, militants really can get

00:14:11.500 away with whatever they want. There's no pushback. Let me ask you about your premier,

00:14:16.060 Wab Canu. I will have to say he's quite a good order. He knows how to talk. He, you know, he,

00:14:21.420 he knows how to, how to play the politics game for sure. But he also, uh, what is his stance on these

00:14:27.260 issues? Is, is, is he more of that radical, uh, activist when it comes to indigenous issues or is

00:14:34.220 he more of a moderate? Uh, I think mostly he's an opportunist. He'll flip flop depending in which

00:14:40.300 way the winds are blowing. Um, I personally, I can't recall any statement he made regarding the

00:14:45.260 statue toppling on July 1st, 2021. Do you think, do you think that he would be, uh,

00:14:54.460 you think that he would, he would be much more sympathetic to a violent indigenous led riot 0.99

00:15:01.020 in the name of land back in Manitoba? Um, or do you think that he would, he would look at the

00:15:06.140 situation and say, as premier, I have to get this under control. Like my concern, you know,

00:15:10.460 is that maybe he's sympathetic to that idea and he actually views Canada as a, as a settler colonial

00:15:16.860 state. Do you get that impression as, as someone who, as someone who lives in his province?

00:15:23.420 I'm a little concerned that he's an activist first and foremost, and you know, Manitoba comes secondary

00:15:29.980 for him. Um, he's a hard guy to read that way. And I think he'll just change his opinions on things

00:15:36.620 depending on which way the winds wind blows. Yeah. Well, I, I will say, you know, he, I think it was

00:15:41.900 during D day, the D day anniversary or in the lead up to a remembrance day, he spoke quite, uh, quite

00:15:49.020 well about the importance of, of the military and Canada and our story as a country. I was surprised

00:15:54.300 about that because as someone not who doesn't live in his province, I thought this guy strikes me as a

00:16:00.060 classic NDP activist politician who, who, you know, plays these games and, and demeans the country.

00:16:06.060 Um, why do you, let me ask you this. Why do you think it is that, that these issues today are,

00:16:12.700 are being, you know, litigated and advocated for at, at, at sort of a larger volume,

00:16:19.340 a louder volume than, than they have been in the past? Why is this coming up now?

00:16:24.220 I think part of it has to do with the, you know, the president of federal government,

00:16:27.820 Trudeau is very sympathetic towards these things. I think he sees there's a lot of political capital

00:16:32.140 he can make off for promoting those issues. Um, I, I, I think activists and Aboriginal activists

00:16:39.420 just see this as a great opportunity for them to say anything, do anything.

00:16:43.580 Rejecting a $40 billion child welfare package, for instance, like that's, those numbers are

00:16:48.780 astronomical and they rejected it. Like, you know, sky's the limit as far as they're concerned.

00:16:53.340 And this may be a little speculation, but you brought up land back. You, you, you, you've

00:17:00.060 connected this movement to Hamas and, and some of the, the violence that we've seen in the Middle East

00:17:06.940 with the church burnings across our country. Do you think that perhaps this is, this is part of

00:17:13.660 the, this land back may be part of that, uh, that, that string of church burnings? I know

00:17:18.860 the question is speculative, but I feel like I have to ask. Yeah, I've definitely, I think there's

00:17:24.620 a sort of a, a general militancy that comes with it. Burning churches is a politically symbolic act.

00:17:30.700 You know, it's, it's really, especially since the church is blamed for sailing Canada,

00:17:35.980 it's a way of seeking retribution symbolically and physically.

00:17:40.380 Well, I mean, if they could, if they, if it is connected, I think that would,

00:17:45.420 that would send a loud message to Canadians who are not sympathetic with this idea,

00:17:49.980 as you rightly point out of, of really a, a racialist, ethno-nationalist perspective

00:17:54.780 from a lot of these activists. And, uh, I, I hope as I'm sure you do, Michael, that, uh,

00:18:00.860 we can, we can hear some indigenous voices speak out against this because, um, it is deeply

00:18:06.940 concerning, uh, what they are, what they say they're going to do. Uh, we'll leave it there,

00:18:11.260 but the article in the C2C journal, which is linked to the description of this video is

00:18:16.220 the indigenous land back movement, a landmine for Canadians. And our guest, Michael Melanson 0.99

00:18:23.180 is the author. You can find that article in the description of this video. Michael,

00:18:27.020 thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me.

Juno News - December 09, 2024

Do the Indigenous ‘Land Back’ activists HATE Canada？

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript