Juno News - November 17, 2021


Does O’Toole need a mandate to stay on as leader？ (Ft. Sen. Denise Batters)


Episode Stats

Length

36 minutes

Words per Minute

181.87701

Word Count

6,651

Sentence Count

380

Misogynist Sentences

19

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:06.660 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:12.800 Coming up, a look at the fight inside the Conservative Party of Canada over Aaron O'Toole's leadership
00:00:17.460 and Senator Denise Batters on her petition for a confidence vote on Aaron O'Toole.
00:00:23.760 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:30.000 Hello and welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:33.660 This is the Andrew Lawton Show on True North.
00:00:36.420 Thursday, no, it's not even Thursday, it's Tuesday.
00:00:38.900 I already am ready for the week to be over.
00:00:40.640 That's the kind of week it is.
00:00:42.180 Tuesday, November 16th, 2021.
00:00:45.640 I should say, I never used to give the date of the show.
00:00:49.280 And then I got an email from one listener who I've had a number of interactions with named Priscilla.
00:00:54.400 And she said, you know, you should really talk about what date it is
00:00:56.960 so that if you're listening to them out of order or you just are listening on your iPod
00:01:00.940 or do people use iPods, whatever it is, you know when it is that the show is contextualized.
00:01:06.360 And I said, that seemed like a great idea.
00:01:07.580 And then I forget every now and then, but then every now and then I do it and I get the date wrong.
00:01:11.740 So we'll still stick with it.
00:01:14.340 But just always double check the date if I give one that doesn't make sense to you.
00:01:18.180 Don't bother listening to me in that opening few seconds here.
00:01:21.260 Wait until all the good stuff comes later on in the show.
00:01:23.700 And we do have quite a bit of stuff to follow.
00:01:27.200 I'm going to be speaking with Senator Denise Batters very shortly.
00:01:30.180 She is the senator, the member of the Conservative Caucus who launched a petition to oust Erin O'Toole as leader.
00:01:37.580 Now, this one has more legs, as we say, than the petition launched by Bert Chen
00:01:42.180 on the Conservative Party's National Council a couple of months ago
00:01:45.760 because this is coming from someone who's a very well-known and very well-liked member
00:01:49.760 of the Conservative Caucus.
00:01:51.580 And it also sounds like perhaps there may be some other people joining this call,
00:01:56.500 perhaps members of Parliament, people that are more connected to the Conservative Party
00:02:01.720 than even Bert Chen was.
00:02:03.620 And I want to talk about this with Denise Batters, but I also want to set the stage a little bit
00:02:08.140 because already this has become a very significant fight in the Conservative Party
00:02:13.520 where you have caucus members digging their feet in and basically saying,
00:02:17.580 I'm with Erin O'Toole and I'm not with Denise Batters.
00:02:22.200 I want to first share the video.
00:02:23.920 It's a couple of minutes long, but I want you to understand where it is that this petition is coming from.
00:02:29.380 And then we'll talk about some of the mechanics of the petition.
00:02:31.900 But this is what Senator Denise Batters says is her chief objection to Erin O'Toole.
00:02:36.960 I'm Senator Denise Batters, and I'm launching a petition so that our party members can have their say
00:02:42.220 on the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada.
00:02:44.880 I've been a Conservative my whole life.
00:02:47.360 I came from the PC side of the party, and like so many others,
00:02:50.760 I worked hard to help merge the Canadian Alliance and PC parties
00:02:54.180 into our winning Conservative Party movement.
00:02:56.620 On behalf of Conservative activists and members from coast to coast,
00:03:00.760 we started this petition because we don't want to see this party ripped apart again.
00:03:05.360 When we're divided, the Liberals win.
00:03:08.260 Under Erin O'Toole's leadership, the rift in our party is growing.
00:03:11.980 He told us this is not your grandfather's Conservative Party
00:03:14.960 and warned campaigning MPs they must agree 100% with his new direction,
00:03:20.440 which constantly changes, or get out of caucus.
00:03:23.120 As leader, Mr. O'Toole has watered down and even entirely reversed our policy positions
00:03:29.340 without the input of party or caucus members.
00:03:32.580 On carbon tax, on guns, on conscience rights.
00:03:35.760 He flip-flopped on our policies within the same week, the same day,
00:03:39.800 and even within the same sentence.
00:03:42.120 He won the leadership, claiming to be true blue,
00:03:44.840 but ran an election campaign nearly indistinguishable from Trudeau's Liberals.
00:03:49.260 We can't afford more of the same.
00:03:51.160 Erin O'Toole lost this election by every measure.
00:03:55.620 Our party lost half a million votes,
00:03:58.080 claimed fewer seats and a lower popular vote than in 2019.
00:04:02.080 We lost diverse seats in MPs in the GTA, Alberta, and in Vancouver suburbs.
00:04:07.780 Mr. O'Toole's inability to communicate or connect with female voters
00:04:11.480 left us with an even wider gender gap.
00:04:14.820 Erin O'Toole lost a trust election to Justin Trudeau, of all people.
00:04:19.020 This campaign was not lost because of Mr. O'Toole's mistakes or inexperience.
00:04:24.880 It was lost because of what Canadian voters perceive as his character flaw,
00:04:29.500 that he is not trustworthy.
00:04:31.180 You can't come back from that.
00:04:33.700 Erin O'Toole lectured our party members on election night,
00:04:36.880 telling us we need to have the courage to change,
00:04:39.660 into what he hasn't yet said.
00:04:41.680 But members deserve to have a say on this change
00:04:44.740 and the future direction of this party, including our leadership.
00:04:49.080 Fellow Conservative Party members,
00:04:51.340 join me in signing this petition and make your voice heard.
00:04:54.680 So as you see, she makes a couple of key points here.
00:04:57.680 Number one, that Erin O'Toole betrayed Conservative principles.
00:05:01.520 Number two, that the election was lost.
00:05:03.800 It was a winnable election.
00:05:05.240 Could have been a Conservative victory, but it wasn't.
00:05:07.800 So snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, as they say.
00:05:11.060 And also that Erin O'Toole cannot win the next election.
00:05:13.920 And she says it's clear that O'Toole hasn't learned any of the lessons he needed to
00:05:17.980 from the last election.
00:05:18.980 And he's just doubling down and tripling down
00:05:21.980 and not actually standing firm on what he's supposed to be doing,
00:05:26.140 in her view, as a Conservative.
00:05:28.160 So this is her objection is that Erin O'Toole is not a real Conservative.
00:05:31.620 He's not a good leader.
00:05:32.800 And he's not doing any of the things that he needs to do
00:05:35.180 to head into the next election with better fortune than he had in the last election.
00:05:40.020 Now, one of the big fights that's taking place here is
00:05:42.960 from all of these Conservative insiders saying that,
00:05:45.740 oh, this is not actually a valid petition
00:05:47.920 and you can't actually get rid of the Conservative leader in this way.
00:05:51.860 And not that I like talking about the ins and outs of the Conservative Constitution,
00:05:55.880 but it is important here that it seems from a plain text reading
00:05:59.440 as though Denise Batters is in the right,
00:06:02.800 in the sense that this is a valid thing that she can do.
00:06:07.240 The Conservative Party Constitution says
00:06:09.660 that 5% of Conservative members in five provinces
00:06:13.380 can sign a petition to have a referendum about anything.
00:06:16.600 So if 5% of party members, and I don't know how many members there are,
00:06:21.160 in five provinces sign on to this, the party can have a referendum.
00:06:25.080 The referendum that she wants is as follows.
00:06:27.660 Do you wish to have a confidence vote on Erin O'Toole's continued leadership
00:06:31.220 of the Conservative Party of Canada by mail or virtually
00:06:34.480 at the earliest opportunity and, in any event, no later than June 30th, 2022?
00:06:41.040 Now, this is not a leadership review in a formal sense,
00:06:44.820 but it's a referendum on Erin O'Toole's leadership,
00:06:48.180 at the end of which, if he didn't get a strong showing,
00:06:50.740 he would have to resign.
00:06:52.000 It doesn't mean that he's being forced out,
00:06:54.000 but the party has a right to vote on anything.
00:06:56.620 The party could vote on whether Denise Batters should resign as a Conservative.
00:07:00.220 The party can vote on whether Erin O'Toole should no longer be the leader.
00:07:04.740 So that's what the party is trying to avoid right now.
00:07:07.840 Because right now, the party's constitution says,
00:07:10.540 after an unsuccessful election, you have to have a leadership review,
00:07:13.360 and that's scheduled at the next opportunity at a convention,
00:07:16.640 which is 2023.
00:07:18.400 Two years.
00:07:19.120 Two years.
00:07:19.580 And the standard approach to this, the standard response,
00:07:21.760 is that if you are in a minority situation,
00:07:24.000 and there's a high likelihood of going to the polls in the next two years,
00:07:27.620 you can't give the leader a freebie
00:07:29.540 when they're supposed to be subject to leadership review.
00:07:31.960 That's generally speaking,
00:07:33.420 and that's not an Erin O'Toole-specific thing.
00:07:35.280 I'm saying that's how this approach,
00:07:37.580 this discussion is being approached.
00:07:39.680 So all of that is to say,
00:07:41.480 Denise Batters is invoking a referendum right,
00:07:44.300 not a leadership review right,
00:07:46.340 in the Conservative constitution.
00:07:48.000 And if 5% of the members, again, in five provinces say,
00:07:51.100 yeah, we want to do this,
00:07:52.420 the party will not be able to say no.
00:07:55.760 Although the party is trying to muddle this,
00:07:57.900 the party is trying to say that this is not,
00:08:00.300 in fact, what the constitution says.
00:08:02.320 Rob Bathurston,
00:08:03.180 who's the president of the Conservative Party of Canada,
00:08:06.300 has said that the question you're proposing to ask
00:08:09.340 does not adhere to the constitution.
00:08:11.820 Your petition is not in order,
00:08:13.240 as it does not adhere to sections 7, 10, and 12.
00:08:16.440 As you're aware,
00:08:17.220 the constitution says that a leadership selection process
00:08:19.920 shall be initiated in one of the following circumstances,
00:08:23.360 the death or retirement of the leader,
00:08:25.260 the leader indicates an intention to resign,
00:08:27.920 or more than 50% of the votes cast at a national convention
00:08:31.480 are in favor of engaging the leadership selection process.
00:08:35.560 There is no provision under Article 10.8
00:08:37.960 for a leadership selection process
00:08:39.400 to be initiated by a petition or referendum under Article 12.
00:08:43.260 That is correct.
00:08:44.320 But as I just mentioned a moment ago,
00:08:45.840 a leadership can be triggered by the leader's resignation,
00:08:50.980 and the leader's resignation can be triggered
00:08:53.680 by a referendum or petition.
00:08:56.540 So that is, I think, the most important thing here,
00:08:58.880 is that the party is trying to use policy.
00:09:01.280 Dean Del Mastro,
00:09:02.220 former Conservative Member of Parliament,
00:09:03.780 says the party is trying to hide behind the constitution,
00:09:06.720 but the constitution doesn't even say
00:09:08.840 what the party's president says it's going to say.
00:09:11.500 So this could end up,
00:09:13.120 if Denise Batters reaches the threshold on her petition,
00:09:16.380 this could end up being a legal battle
00:09:18.060 if the party is not adhering to its own constitution.
00:09:22.000 I should say,
00:09:22.820 I don't want to make this entirely about the ins and outs
00:09:25.020 of Conservative Party of Canada governing documents.
00:09:27.540 I think those are relevant to how this is going to unfold.
00:09:30.380 But the more fundamental question here
00:09:31.980 is does Erin O'Toole have a mandate?
00:09:34.940 I talked last week about how he has conspicuously excluded
00:09:38.260 some members of his caucus from Shadow Cabinet
00:09:41.280 who very much should be included.
00:09:42.880 People like Leslyn Lewis,
00:09:44.540 people like Shannon Stubbs,
00:09:45.900 people like Chris Warkington,
00:09:47.640 Scott Reid,
00:09:48.360 longtime Conservative stalwarts
00:09:50.240 who I guess are just not sufficiently sycophantic
00:09:53.000 to O'Toole's OLO,
00:09:54.560 Office of the Leader of the Opposition,
00:09:56.240 that they don't have a place in the Shadow Cabinet.
00:09:59.480 Now, we don't know if other MPs are going to be joining this,
00:10:02.960 if members of the House of Commons
00:10:04.760 are going to be speaking up and joining this
00:10:07.060 or promoting this petition.
00:10:08.100 We do know that quite a few have said
00:10:10.560 they are standing with O'Toole.
00:10:12.560 Most notably was Michelle Rempel-Garner
00:10:15.100 who did a video,
00:10:16.280 and I'm going to play the whole thing.
00:10:17.580 I'm going to play the whole thing for you.
00:10:18.880 It's just under three minutes,
00:10:20.180 a video condemning Denise Batters
00:10:22.520 for taking attention away
00:10:24.000 from criticizing Justin Trudeau.
00:10:26.780 This is an open message
00:10:29.900 to my colleague from the Senate,
00:10:33.060 Denise Batters.
00:10:33.980 Denise, I have been working all week
00:10:38.300 on an issue that matters to my community.
00:10:41.060 Denise, I have been meeting with dozens of stakeholders,
00:10:46.100 talking to people from all across the country
00:10:49.760 on how we should fight Justin Trudeau's war on the energy sector.
00:10:54.620 That's what I've been doing this week.
00:10:56.080 I can't believe I have to use my Facebook platform to do this, Denise.
00:11:00.000 And so I'm about to do a bunch of media on this topic
00:11:02.540 and show Canadians that,
00:11:05.220 as the official opposition,
00:11:06.420 we're focused on Justin Trudeau.
00:11:07.680 But you know what, Denise,
00:11:08.400 I had to do this morning?
00:11:10.000 I had to respond to your petition
00:11:11.820 calling for a leadership review in the party.
00:11:15.000 You know what that does to me?
00:11:16.100 That clears my day
00:11:18.040 from being able to stand up with my constituents.
00:11:20.940 You know what it does?
00:11:21.820 It's going to fill the news tonight with your petition,
00:11:25.060 as opposed to my, like,
00:11:28.300 trying to hold Justin Trudeau to account
00:11:30.280 to get my community back to work.
00:11:31.740 I'm so frustrated with this.
00:11:34.040 You know, we can have differences internally in caucus.
00:11:37.640 We can have vigorous policy debates.
00:11:40.240 I'm happy to do that.
00:11:41.360 That's actually, that's good.
00:11:42.720 That comes up with better public policy.
00:11:44.340 But this open warfare that's happening right now,
00:11:48.880 like, the Liberals are pumping champagne to you.
00:11:51.740 I'm sure that the Liberals went out
00:11:52.980 and bought a case of champagne,
00:11:54.320 and they're going,
00:11:54.780 cheers, Denise Batters.
00:11:56.180 This is great.
00:11:57.740 Like, so the media tonight,
00:11:59.600 instead of talking about the energy sector
00:12:01.940 or, you know, the price of gas
00:12:04.380 or the nation's debt being out of control,
00:12:07.000 our colleague Pierre Paliyev
00:12:08.100 did an excellent press conference yesterday
00:12:10.080 talking about how inflation needs to be stopped
00:12:13.100 and what we could be doing.
00:12:13.940 Are they going to be running that?
00:12:15.200 Nope.
00:12:15.840 They are going to be talking about this petition.
00:12:18.440 And I am just so frustrated with this
00:12:22.000 because we have to get it together.
00:12:23.880 We're the opposition.
00:12:25.300 And Justin Trudeau right now,
00:12:27.260 because this is what's leading the news,
00:12:29.160 is this, this,
00:12:31.680 he gets a free ride today.
00:12:33.900 He's not, he's not,
00:12:34.940 his failures aren't leading the news tonight.
00:12:38.260 No, it's, it's our failures internally.
00:12:40.680 And I just think that that's irresponsible.
00:12:42.980 So I would like to get back to work.
00:12:45.160 I would like to be holding the government
00:12:48.100 to account on these issues.
00:12:50.260 And I, I mean, like, look,
00:12:51.540 of course we can have internal disagreements.
00:12:53.460 I, I think that's healthy.
00:12:55.720 But this, I am calling on you.
00:12:58.780 I'm asking you to withdraw your petition.
00:13:00.840 Have it out in caucus.
00:13:03.360 We have a caucus meeting tomorrow.
00:13:04.880 For those of you watching,
00:13:05.640 we actually have a caucus meeting tomorrow.
00:13:08.420 Couldn't have done this tomorrow.
00:13:09.600 Nope.
00:13:10.760 Had to do it today.
00:13:12.260 So Denise, I'm asking you to withdraw your petition
00:13:14.260 and let me get back to work.
00:13:15.960 Working hard for you in Calgary.
00:13:17.400 Have a great day.
00:13:18.060 Michelle Rempel-Garner's point,
00:13:19.980 and she puts this in a thread on Twitter as well,
00:13:22.840 is that all of the Conservative Party dirty laundry
00:13:25.640 should be kept internal.
00:13:27.280 The public voice should be on criticizing Justin Trudeau,
00:13:30.140 talking about affordability,
00:13:31.380 the war on the energy sector, all of that.
00:13:33.400 And she says Denise Batter should withdraw her petition
00:13:36.600 and have this debate out in caucus.
00:13:39.000 Now, remember, caucus does have the power
00:13:41.400 to oust Erin O'Toole.
00:13:43.800 Whether or not there are enough people in caucus
00:13:45.700 for that, I don't know.
00:13:46.660 But this is really just a fundamental divide
00:13:49.280 in who gets to decide Erin O'Toole's fate.
00:13:51.800 Should it be a bunch of people in caucus
00:13:53.640 or should it be the membership as a whole?
00:13:56.260 Denise Batters is saying it's the membership that decides
00:13:58.580 and Michelle Rempel-Garner is saying
00:14:00.700 that it is the caucus who decides.
00:14:03.980 And Candace Bergen as well,
00:14:05.540 she has said that she stands by Erin O'Toole's leadership.
00:14:08.960 Brad Redikop has said he's happy to stand
00:14:10.840 in support of Erin O'Toole.
00:14:12.680 So what this has done,
00:14:13.900 this letter from Senator Denise Batters,
00:14:16.120 the video, the petition,
00:14:17.480 have forced MPs to have to dig their heels in and say,
00:14:21.000 yes, I stand with Erin O'Toole.
00:14:23.800 And in the next couple of days,
00:14:25.160 it will be very interesting to see who hasn't.
00:14:28.320 Which MPs have not done that?
00:14:30.180 Which MPs have not expressed their undying support
00:14:33.560 for Erin O'Toole's leadership?
00:14:35.940 Now, listen, I think that Erin O'Toole
00:14:37.880 deserves another shot as leader
00:14:40.260 if he fights for that shot.
00:14:42.080 I've not heard anything from him
00:14:43.900 that really justifies why he should stay on as leader.
00:14:47.880 All he's talked about is that,
00:14:49.400 oh, there could be an election in 18 months,
00:14:50.900 so you've got to, you know, have me kick it around.
00:14:53.160 Well, that's not a good enough reason.
00:14:55.180 And remember, Andrew Scheer,
00:14:56.700 after the 2019 election,
00:14:58.160 was very clear that he was going to stay on.
00:15:00.600 And then it became abundantly clear
00:15:02.940 that there was not a political appetite
00:15:05.320 for him to do that,
00:15:06.500 that he didn't have the political capital
00:15:08.420 and he had to then step down.
00:15:11.260 Erin O'Toole, I think,
00:15:12.060 has a lot more people falling in line
00:15:13.960 behind him right now.
00:15:15.640 But I'm not sure how much of the base
00:15:18.100 is in that group.
00:15:19.960 I'm not sure how much of the conservative base,
00:15:21.620 the kind of people, the members
00:15:22.820 who would be voting in this referendum,
00:15:25.180 how much they are actually on side
00:15:27.200 with Erin O'Toole's leadership.
00:15:29.380 And I should tell you,
00:15:30.340 since the, well, through the election,
00:15:31.900 I was asking Erin O'Toole
00:15:33.220 for interviews all the time.
00:15:35.020 I did ask him numerous questions
00:15:36.500 at press conferences
00:15:37.320 when we were on the campaign trail with him,
00:15:39.500 but never got an interview.
00:15:40.880 Since the election,
00:15:41.860 I've asked a number of times
00:15:43.260 for a sit-down interview.
00:15:44.620 Make your pitch to conservative Canadians.
00:15:47.380 And every time it's,
00:15:48.540 okay, we'll get back to you.
00:15:49.300 And again, the offer still stands.
00:15:50.680 I reached out as recently as yesterday
00:15:52.880 after I saw Senator Batter's petition.
00:15:55.240 And I said,
00:15:55.680 let's have Erin O'Toole on the show,
00:15:58.120 speak to conservatives
00:15:59.100 against these critiques.
00:16:00.760 The invitation stands.
00:16:02.640 I will happily speak to him
00:16:03.800 at any opportunity.
00:16:04.700 I will get on a plane
00:16:05.940 and go to Ottawa for it.
00:16:07.080 I'll go to Durham
00:16:07.740 if he wants to do it in Iqaluit.
00:16:09.460 I might, well, not in December,
00:16:10.760 but later on,
00:16:11.560 I might go to Iqaluit
00:16:12.480 if that's where he wants to do it.
00:16:14.160 But it's an open invitation.
00:16:16.620 And I would love to hear
00:16:17.680 Erin O'Toole explain
00:16:18.680 why he should stay on
00:16:20.200 because there was an issue yesterday.
00:16:22.000 It was a funny clip
00:16:23.000 you should listen to.
00:16:24.240 I'm not going to play the whole thing
00:16:25.620 because it would just,
00:16:26.480 I'm playing a lot of video clips already.
00:16:28.140 But Pierre Polyev was doing
00:16:29.880 a press conference on the weekend
00:16:31.060 and he talked about defunding CBC.
00:16:33.200 And there was a reporter
00:16:34.420 that questioned him on that
00:16:35.620 and said, well, you know,
00:16:37.220 you're saying defund now,
00:16:38.440 but in the leadership,
00:16:39.300 in the election,
00:16:40.320 all Erin O'Toole was talking about
00:16:41.860 was reviewing.
00:16:42.800 Why are you saying defunding?
00:16:44.100 And Pierre says, listen,
00:16:45.320 I've always been for defunding.
00:16:46.640 I'm for defunding.
00:16:47.440 That's it.
00:16:48.140 But that's just one subtle example here
00:16:50.240 of how conservatives felt
00:16:52.620 kind of rolled on
00:16:53.660 by the conservative platform.
00:16:55.320 In the leadership race,
00:16:56.840 Erin O'Toole talked a big game,
00:16:58.020 was all about defunding,
00:16:59.280 privatizing CBC.
00:17:00.760 And then in the election,
00:17:01.480 it was, well, we'll have a review
00:17:02.740 and maybe look at
00:17:03.580 alternative business models.
00:17:05.280 Gun control, same sort of thing.
00:17:06.880 It was at one point,
00:17:07.920 yes, we're going to repeal
00:17:08.840 the order in council.
00:17:09.660 We're going to roll back
00:17:11.360 all of these liberal reforms.
00:17:12.540 And then a couple of days
00:17:13.400 of bad press and it was,
00:17:14.580 okay, we'll keep the bans in place.
00:17:17.080 Conscience rights in the platform
00:17:18.800 right there.
00:17:19.260 I can't remember the page,
00:17:20.140 but it was on the platform.
00:17:21.360 And then a couple of days
00:17:22.420 of bad press.
00:17:23.120 One question from,
00:17:24.000 I think it was the Globe and Mail.
00:17:25.180 And then all of a sudden,
00:17:26.240 Erin O'Toole walks that back
00:17:27.600 and says that he does no,
00:17:29.560 he no longer supports
00:17:30.620 conscience rights
00:17:31.340 for healthcare practitioners.
00:17:33.200 Says he's going to support
00:17:34.340 conscience rights
00:17:35.140 for members of his caucus.
00:17:38.000 And then what happens?
00:17:39.940 You have caucus members
00:17:41.500 being told they have to back
00:17:42.840 100% of the party's platform
00:17:45.060 if they want to sit
00:17:46.480 as conservative MPs.
00:17:48.640 Now I get the media onslaught
00:17:50.800 is not fun,
00:17:52.120 but I also get that Erin O'Toole
00:17:54.240 has to be held to account
00:17:55.880 by conservatives
00:17:57.220 to see if he has a mandate
00:17:59.120 to stay on.
00:18:00.020 And remember,
00:18:00.600 the party agrees.
00:18:02.220 The party agrees.
00:18:03.160 The party constitution agrees
00:18:04.580 that Erin O'Toole
00:18:05.600 should be subject
00:18:06.360 to a leadership review.
00:18:07.440 That is an automatic process.
00:18:09.580 The question is simply when.
00:18:13.140 So the idea
00:18:14.340 that we are talking about here,
00:18:16.360 that Senator Batters
00:18:17.360 is talking about,
00:18:18.300 of having a leadership review
00:18:19.780 sooner rather than later,
00:18:21.100 is really just expediting
00:18:22.840 a process that the party
00:18:24.060 says it welcomes,
00:18:25.820 that the party says
00:18:26.860 it's all for.
00:18:28.860 So if the review is important,
00:18:31.760 then why wait?
00:18:34.200 The reason you wait
00:18:35.360 is because if you wait long enough
00:18:36.680 that an election looks imminent,
00:18:38.140 you kind of have a bit
00:18:39.300 of a trump card in your pocket
00:18:40.500 if the writ is dropped
00:18:41.360 and you can say,
00:18:42.160 oh, well, I guess I'm the leader still.
00:18:44.420 Whereas if you do it now,
00:18:46.040 when people know
00:18:47.000 they have a bit of time,
00:18:48.820 then it actually makes it
00:18:50.160 very difficult for you to say
00:18:52.000 that people have to keep you on
00:18:53.880 because of expediency.
00:18:55.560 So you could have
00:18:56.140 a very vigorous leadership race
00:18:58.100 right now
00:18:59.340 if Aaron O'Toole were ousted
00:19:00.780 or if he resigned
00:19:01.580 or if he wanted to seek
00:19:02.940 a new mandate from the members,
00:19:04.240 whatever the case may be,
00:19:05.240 without risking the Conservatives
00:19:07.020 not being prepared
00:19:07.940 for the next election.
00:19:10.240 And that's the critical part here.
00:19:12.620 Now, Global News has said
00:19:14.200 that this is an open revolt.
00:19:16.160 Alex Boutillier says that
00:19:17.540 what's happening here
00:19:18.540 is a multi-step process.
00:19:20.160 This is just the first shoe to drop.
00:19:22.120 I don't know how many shoes.
00:19:23.020 Maybe there are two,
00:19:23.780 four, seven,
00:19:24.440 whatever it is.
00:19:25.660 Denise Batters,
00:19:26.420 again, I like Denise Batters.
00:19:27.760 I've interviewed her in the past.
00:19:29.620 And Senator Batters
00:19:30.760 is not a high-profile member
00:19:33.120 of the Conservative Party
00:19:34.280 outside of the Conservative Party,
00:19:36.720 I'd say.
00:19:36.960 I don't think any senator
00:19:37.800 is particularly high-profile.
00:19:39.780 So she may be the one
00:19:41.020 needed to woo over people
00:19:42.280 within the party,
00:19:43.120 which, again,
00:19:43.840 in a petition to members
00:19:45.000 may be all you need.
00:19:46.620 But you would need to see
00:19:48.260 some more bench strength,
00:19:49.620 specifically from the
00:19:50.620 House of Commons
00:19:51.340 Conservative Caucus here,
00:19:52.720 if you wanted to see this
00:19:54.340 really pushed in a direction
00:19:56.400 that makes it unavoidable
00:19:57.580 for Aaron O'Toole to stay on.
00:19:59.840 And I should say,
00:20:00.700 I am not calling
00:20:01.580 for Aaron O'Toole's resignation.
00:20:03.020 I'm calling for Aaron O'Toole
00:20:04.260 to be held to account,
00:20:06.700 to seek a mandate
00:20:07.800 for his continued leadership,
00:20:09.520 and to actually explain
00:20:11.040 to Conservative Canadians
00:20:12.540 why he deserves to stay on,
00:20:14.620 to answer to some of those issues,
00:20:16.120 like the flip-flop on CBC funding,
00:20:18.340 like on Conscience Rights,
00:20:19.460 like all of these things.
00:20:20.680 And, you know,
00:20:21.080 I pointed out something
00:20:21.960 that I think bears repeating
00:20:23.200 this week,
00:20:24.300 that there were four candidates
00:20:25.760 seeking the leadership.
00:20:27.500 One of them,
00:20:28.260 Derek Sloan,
00:20:28.820 has been kicked out of caucus.
00:20:30.000 Peter McKay was forced out
00:20:32.020 of seeking a seat
00:20:32.900 when he wanted to return
00:20:33.820 to politics.
00:20:34.840 Leslyn Lewis was elected
00:20:36.000 as a Conservative MP,
00:20:37.260 but has been shoved
00:20:38.260 to the back of the back benches
00:20:39.460 and has actually been reprimanded
00:20:41.680 for her open speech
00:20:42.940 by her leader.
00:20:44.020 So we know that MPs
00:20:45.200 that don't get on board
00:20:46.800 are going to be cast aside.
00:20:48.360 The question is how many of them
00:20:49.440 are in a place
00:20:49.980 where they want to speak up.
00:20:51.400 I mentioned last week as well
00:20:53.200 that all but 37
00:20:54.820 of the Conservative MPs,
00:20:57.100 so there are 119,
00:20:58.420 all but 37 of them,
00:21:00.080 were given some form
00:21:01.720 of a shadow cabinet
00:21:03.220 or deputy shadow cabinet spot.
00:21:04.860 That's a lot of people
00:21:05.840 that have been given a title
00:21:07.040 by Aaron O'Toole
00:21:08.000 that might not want
00:21:09.360 to speak up against him.
00:21:10.540 So I'd be looking
00:21:11.480 at those 37 first
00:21:13.040 and seeing where
00:21:14.160 they land on this.
00:21:15.860 So I want to bring
00:21:16.540 into this discussion now
00:21:17.660 Senator Denise Batter,
00:21:19.180 Saskatchewan Senator,
00:21:20.420 and the woman who launched
00:21:22.180 the petition to have
00:21:23.360 members of the Conservative Party
00:21:25.060 have their say.
00:21:26.060 Senator, thanks very much
00:21:27.040 for joining me today.
00:21:28.520 Oh, thank you very much
00:21:29.380 for having me on your show.
00:21:30.360 Really appreciate it, Andrew.
00:21:31.820 So let's start with the why now.
00:21:33.780 This is an election
00:21:34.680 that was just under
00:21:35.440 two months ago.
00:21:36.440 A lot of the concerns
00:21:37.480 that you've raised
00:21:38.440 in the petition
00:21:39.480 and in your video
00:21:40.380 and accompanying interviews
00:21:41.680 have been raised
00:21:42.860 by some members
00:21:43.780 of the Conservative base
00:21:44.780 really as recently
00:21:46.040 as the day after the election.
00:21:48.660 Why wait until now
00:21:49.940 to launch this initiative?
00:21:51.880 Well, I think right now
00:21:53.580 what's become clear
00:21:54.500 is the members
00:21:55.120 deserve to have a say.
00:21:56.820 And that's what I'm trying
00:21:58.020 to give them
00:21:58.520 an effective channel
00:21:59.320 to do that.
00:22:00.440 Because since becoming leader
00:22:02.100 and especially
00:22:02.800 during the federal election,
00:22:04.500 Aaron O'Toole
00:22:04.960 has repeatedly reversed
00:22:06.440 Conservative Party policies
00:22:07.720 without consultation
00:22:09.080 or input from party members
00:22:10.920 and caucus as well.
00:22:13.400 And it's critical,
00:22:14.360 I think,
00:22:14.660 that party members
00:22:15.440 be given a chance
00:22:16.800 to have their voice heard.
00:22:20.360 Otherwise,
00:22:21.140 I'm very concerned
00:22:21.860 that the party might split.
00:22:23.520 And that's what I've been
00:22:24.380 becoming increasingly concerned
00:22:25.980 about over the last
00:22:26.800 number of weeks
00:22:27.500 is that our party
00:22:28.660 could split in two again
00:22:29.740 and leaving the Liberals
00:22:30.960 to govern
00:22:31.400 for potentially another generation.
00:22:33.240 And that is
00:22:34.340 a very worrisome prospect
00:22:36.040 for a Liberal government
00:22:37.620 that's already done
00:22:38.360 so much damage
00:22:39.240 to so many parts
00:22:40.200 of this country,
00:22:41.040 including, for sure,
00:22:42.080 especially my region
00:22:43.160 of Western Canada.
00:22:45.220 You say that you want
00:22:46.420 to prevent a split,
00:22:47.940 but a number of
00:22:48.700 Conservative colleagues
00:22:49.660 of yours have said
00:22:50.480 that you're the one
00:22:51.080 being divisive
00:22:51.940 by launching a petition
00:22:53.480 like this
00:22:54.060 and making an internal fight
00:22:55.860 or what they believe
00:22:56.600 should be an internal fight
00:22:58.180 more public.
00:22:59.300 Right.
00:22:59.760 Well, I believe that
00:23:00.880 our members
00:23:01.820 deserve to have say.
00:23:02.980 This leadership review
00:23:03.980 is going to happen
00:23:04.980 one way or the other.
00:23:05.960 Right now,
00:23:06.820 it's scheduled
00:23:07.280 to happen in 2023.
00:23:09.760 I simply want it
00:23:10.800 to happen
00:23:11.180 in the normal course
00:23:12.040 of events,
00:23:12.520 which is usually
00:23:13.160 about six months
00:23:14.020 or so after an election loss.
00:23:15.960 That's what Mr. Harper
00:23:17.020 faced when he lost
00:23:18.440 the 2004 election.
00:23:19.980 That was actually
00:23:20.580 the first election
00:23:21.340 my husband was elected in.
00:23:22.960 So I remember
00:23:23.440 that time frame well.
00:23:25.080 And he was successful
00:23:26.300 in that leadership review.
00:23:27.760 Andrew Scheer
00:23:28.300 would have faced
00:23:29.020 the same sort
00:23:29.640 of leadership review
00:23:30.380 after the 2019
00:23:31.380 election loss,
00:23:32.940 but he had decided
00:23:34.880 to step down
00:23:35.820 as leader prior to that.
00:23:37.480 So this is the normal course
00:23:38.920 is around six months,
00:23:40.400 not two years.
00:23:41.960 So that's all I'm asking
00:23:42.980 is that especially
00:23:44.940 because not only
00:23:46.040 do we need to have
00:23:46.880 the members heard
00:23:47.680 on Mr. O'Toole's leadership
00:23:49.380 and their confidence
00:23:50.800 in that,
00:23:51.660 but also election night,
00:23:53.780 Aaron O'Toole said
00:23:55.020 that our members
00:23:55.940 needed to have
00:23:56.560 the courage to change.
00:23:57.760 And so if after
00:23:59.920 all of those
00:24:00.580 dramatic policy reversal
00:24:01.840 we've already seen,
00:24:03.380 including carbon tax
00:24:04.460 and guns and conscience rights,
00:24:06.040 things like that,
00:24:07.420 if we're only just starting
00:24:09.140 to go down the road
00:24:10.180 of increased number
00:24:11.880 of dramatic policy reversals,
00:24:13.980 the members need
00:24:14.880 to buy into that
00:24:16.280 and have a say
00:24:17.580 on what they think
00:24:18.580 about that.
00:24:19.700 Yeah.
00:24:21.200 I know that in 2019
00:24:22.960 after that loss
00:24:24.940 for the Conservatives,
00:24:25.840 you were very much,
00:24:27.000 if I recall,
00:24:27.760 wanting Andrew Scheer
00:24:28.880 to have the benefit
00:24:29.680 of a bit more time.
00:24:31.160 Why is it different now
00:24:32.100 with Aaron O'Toole?
00:24:33.480 It's not different
00:24:34.360 in the least.
00:24:35.160 Andrew Scheer
00:24:35.620 was going to face
00:24:36.580 that leadership review vote
00:24:38.200 that would have been held
00:24:39.240 at the party convention,
00:24:40.400 which was scheduled
00:24:41.080 to happen in
00:24:42.040 the following April,
00:24:43.520 which was six months
00:24:44.460 after that election occurred.
00:24:46.500 That's all I'm asking
00:24:47.560 that Mr. O'Toole
00:24:48.420 go through that same
00:24:49.340 sort of process.
00:24:50.440 And Andrew Scheer
00:24:51.840 had had a number
00:24:54.900 of different wins
00:24:55.800 in that particular election.
00:24:56.960 We increased our seat count
00:24:58.260 by 22.
00:24:59.220 We had significantly
00:25:00.560 increased the popular vote.
00:25:02.100 We had won some,
00:25:03.200 you know,
00:25:03.800 hard-fought seats
00:25:04.580 in key areas
00:25:05.480 that we needed to win
00:25:06.480 in the GTA
00:25:07.580 and in Vancouver suburbs
00:25:09.120 and places like that.
00:25:10.580 But in this past election
00:25:12.420 that we just had,
00:25:14.240 unfortunately,
00:25:15.540 under Mr. O'Toole's leadership,
00:25:17.560 we lost by every measure.
00:25:20.360 We lost seats.
00:25:21.760 We lost half a million votes.
00:25:24.500 We lost some of those
00:25:25.600 very hard-fought seats
00:25:26.840 in the GTA,
00:25:28.740 which he had contended
00:25:30.300 that his policy flip-flops
00:25:31.800 would lead us to win more
00:25:33.180 in the GTA.
00:25:34.000 Instead, what we saw
00:25:35.100 was losses there
00:25:36.740 in Alberta,
00:25:38.100 in Edmonton,
00:25:38.760 in Calgary,
00:25:39.440 in the Vancouver suburbs.
00:25:40.500 So these urban
00:25:41.900 and suburban seats
00:25:43.080 that Mr. O'Toole
00:25:44.960 was saying
00:25:45.780 that these types
00:25:46.740 of more centrist policies
00:25:48.680 would help us win,
00:25:50.760 we lost
00:25:51.320 by all of those measures.
00:25:53.220 Well, I think
00:25:54.020 your petition touches
00:25:54.980 on something
00:25:55.720 very important here,
00:25:56.800 which is that,
00:25:57.560 you know,
00:25:58.200 a lot of people
00:25:58.900 will overlook
00:25:59.520 a lot of things
00:26:00.300 if you win.
00:26:01.420 So the idea
00:26:02.260 of the appeals
00:26:03.080 to Quebec,
00:26:03.940 the moderation of policy,
00:26:05.520 if that had been
00:26:06.400 a gamble
00:26:06.880 that paid off,
00:26:07.840 I think some people
00:26:08.620 might be a lot more
00:26:09.740 forgiving of it.
00:26:10.880 But when you do that
00:26:11.980 and it doesn't work,
00:26:13.940 you're like,
00:26:14.520 well, what was it all for?
00:26:16.040 Yes, absolutely.
00:26:17.540 And also, I mean,
00:26:18.900 I actually come from
00:26:19.860 the PC side of the party,
00:26:21.640 so I'm not adverse
00:26:23.260 to centrist policies.
00:26:24.800 But the key is
00:26:26.380 that they have to be presented
00:26:27.660 with integrity
00:26:28.520 and consistency
00:26:30.360 and the support
00:26:31.560 and buy-in
00:26:32.160 of your members.
00:26:33.100 Because if you don't have that,
00:26:34.960 then you have no way
00:26:36.780 to present yourself
00:26:37.640 with credibility
00:26:39.440 to the voters of Canada,
00:26:41.060 which is the main thing
00:26:42.580 that we need to do here.
00:26:43.980 And if the members
00:26:44.600 had decided,
00:26:45.540 okay, yes,
00:26:46.080 we're going to moderate
00:26:46.880 on this element
00:26:48.120 or this element,
00:26:48.820 that's fine.
00:26:49.500 But that has not happened.
00:26:50.700 In fact,
00:26:51.500 our last policy convention
00:26:52.860 happened only in March.
00:26:54.820 And at that time,
00:26:55.680 we still had,
00:26:56.800 and we still do now,
00:26:58.240 have a policy platform
00:26:59.760 in our Conservative Party platform
00:27:01.640 that is anti-carbon tax.
00:27:04.900 Yet,
00:27:05.660 then the very next month,
00:27:07.000 in April,
00:27:08.160 Mr. O'Toole did
00:27:08.880 the 180-degree shift
00:27:10.340 on carbon tax.
00:27:11.760 And without the buy-in
00:27:12.840 of our members
00:27:13.480 or caucus,
00:27:15.020 what we had then
00:27:16.580 was we ran
00:27:17.360 an election campaign
00:27:18.560 just this summer
00:27:20.420 based on a carbon tax.
00:27:22.580 And, you know,
00:27:23.580 despite the fact
00:27:24.400 that we ran on that,
00:27:25.520 some people might say,
00:27:26.640 well, you know,
00:27:27.220 you should have tried
00:27:27.900 some more centrist policies.
00:27:29.480 Well, we had a carbon tax
00:27:30.720 and that did not
00:27:31.520 get us seats
00:27:32.140 in the GTA
00:27:32.880 or Vancouver suburbs.
00:27:34.940 In fact,
00:27:35.380 actually,
00:27:36.480 our election losses
00:27:38.780 were magnified
00:27:39.840 in those particular areas.
00:27:41.880 I know in last year's
00:27:43.320 leadership race,
00:27:44.180 you were a supporter
00:27:45.180 of Peter McKay.
00:27:46.600 Is there a successor
00:27:48.460 you have in mind
00:27:49.660 for this?
00:27:50.400 Either Peter McKay
00:27:51.200 or someone else
00:27:51.880 or is your imminent goal
00:27:52.820 just Aaron O'Toole
00:27:53.960 has to go?
00:27:55.260 My imminent goal
00:27:56.180 is giving the members
00:27:57.080 a say in whether
00:27:58.340 the members have
00:28:00.200 continued confidence
00:28:01.440 right now
00:28:02.060 in Mr. O'Toole's leadership,
00:28:04.240 but more importantly,
00:28:05.320 in this future direction
00:28:06.480 of the party.
00:28:07.320 Because when he says
00:28:08.080 courage to change,
00:28:09.040 what else is coming?
00:28:10.040 We need to know that.
00:28:11.380 And the members
00:28:12.080 who are the real bosses
00:28:13.200 of the Conservative Party,
00:28:14.800 they are the ones
00:28:15.480 that need to have a say
00:28:16.440 in that and indicate
00:28:17.360 that they're fine with it.
00:28:18.900 And I am someone who,
00:28:20.580 I'm just one voice
00:28:22.060 in this whole process.
00:28:23.680 The members who were,
00:28:25.100 there is potentially
00:28:25.720 hundreds of thousands
00:28:26.620 of them across the country.
00:28:27.880 We've already seen
00:28:28.720 extremely good support
00:28:30.040 for people signing
00:28:31.300 our petition.
00:28:32.000 And of course,
00:28:32.420 you need to be a member
00:28:33.300 to sign it.
00:28:34.560 If you've let your membership
00:28:35.740 lapse in the recent past,
00:28:38.560 you can renew it
00:28:39.380 and then sign the petition
00:28:40.780 if you just want
00:28:41.680 to have a say.
00:28:42.880 And perhaps the members
00:28:44.140 will decide that,
00:28:44.980 no, we're fine with this.
00:28:46.560 We disagree with you,
00:28:47.840 Senator Batters.
00:28:48.780 That's democracy.
00:28:51.020 Let's talk about
00:28:51.980 who should have that say
00:28:53.080 because I think
00:28:53.680 you've been very clear
00:28:54.420 it is in fact the members
00:28:55.580 and that should be
00:28:56.380 the cornerstone
00:28:57.120 of a grassroots party.
00:28:59.140 In her video
00:28:59.900 responding to your petition,
00:29:02.180 Michelle Remble-Garner,
00:29:03.200 a Conservative MP,
00:29:04.400 has said that this should
00:29:05.560 just be had out in caucus,
00:29:07.120 not in this broader scale.
00:29:09.280 What's your response to that?
00:29:11.320 Well, I think the members
00:29:12.220 always need to have a say
00:29:13.520 and that's certainly
00:29:14.500 what I'm hearing
00:29:15.140 from many of my caucus colleagues
00:29:17.800 as well as former MPs
00:29:21.120 and that sort of thing
00:29:21.960 and EDA presidents,
00:29:24.740 EDA members and volunteers
00:29:26.260 from across the country.
00:29:27.820 They want to have a say
00:29:29.380 and I don't think
00:29:30.740 that it's simply something.
00:29:32.480 I mean, the caucus avenue
00:29:33.640 as caucus voted
00:29:35.060 to give itself the right
00:29:36.320 to review Mr. O'Toole's leadership
00:29:38.580 if caucus chose to do that,
00:29:41.100 that's one avenue.
00:29:42.240 However, to sideline
00:29:44.460 the membership of the party
00:29:45.660 is not a good thing to happen.
00:29:47.980 We need to let them
00:29:48.860 have a voice in this whole process
00:29:50.960 and then they can decide
00:29:52.640 whether this is acceptable
00:29:54.060 to them or not.
00:29:55.820 I don't want to get into
00:29:57.040 a big debate
00:29:57.860 about the ins and outs
00:29:58.740 of the Conservative Party
00:29:59.900 of Canada constitution
00:30:00.880 because I think you and I
00:30:01.960 will both be asleep
00:30:03.080 as will most of our viewers here.
00:30:05.040 But I will say
00:30:06.060 just for a moment
00:30:06.760 that Conservative President
00:30:07.820 Robert Bathurston
00:30:08.820 has said that this is not
00:30:10.060 a valid or constitutional mechanism
00:30:12.700 for reviewing the leadership
00:30:14.500 that you're putting forward
00:30:15.480 and I think that
00:30:16.580 as I said earlier on the show
00:30:17.700 a plain text reading
00:30:18.900 of the Constitution
00:30:19.540 suggests you can have
00:30:20.580 a referendum on anything
00:30:21.740 and if Aaron O'Toole
00:30:23.120 looked at those results
00:30:24.120 and didn't feel he had a mandate
00:30:25.660 he would have to step down
00:30:27.280 and it doesn't need to be binding
00:30:28.700 for it to be effective.
00:30:30.020 But if the Conservative Party
00:30:31.660 doesn't have that referendum,
00:30:33.600 if the Conservative Party
00:30:34.900 does what it sounds like
00:30:36.220 Robert Bathurston is doing here
00:30:37.640 and saying that
00:30:38.280 this is not a legitimate petition,
00:30:40.200 how far are you prepared to go?
00:30:41.580 Well, we'll see what happens.
00:30:43.840 Already, as of when I checked
00:30:46.020 earlier today,
00:30:47.940 1,800 people had already
00:30:49.660 signed the petition.
00:30:50.680 So if we have a situation
00:30:51.700 where we have thousands
00:30:52.700 of Conservative Party members
00:30:54.200 signing this,
00:30:54.960 wanting this voice
00:30:56.000 and the party brass
00:30:59.360 rules it out of order,
00:31:00.380 that will not be acceptable
00:31:01.360 to the members.
00:31:02.060 And frankly, I'm a lawyer.
00:31:04.020 We've looked at this carefully
00:31:05.340 and I have briefly considered
00:31:08.000 Mr. Bathurston's response.
00:31:10.000 I don't agree with it.
00:31:11.640 He refers to particular parts
00:31:13.720 of the Constitution
00:31:14.400 that deal just with
00:31:15.340 leadership selection process
00:31:16.820 and says that this is not
00:31:18.740 my referendum request
00:31:20.820 is not allowed
00:31:21.420 because it doesn't comply
00:31:23.020 with the requirements for that.
00:31:24.140 But I'm not asking
00:31:25.040 that this be a leadership
00:31:26.540 selection process initiated.
00:31:28.600 I'm simply asking
00:31:29.520 that the members,
00:31:30.880 that the party conduct
00:31:31.680 a referendum of the members
00:31:33.120 in order to be able to,
00:31:34.420 for them to be able to decide
00:31:36.340 whether there should be
00:31:37.400 a confidence vote
00:31:38.400 in Erin O'Toole's
00:31:39.420 continued leadership.
00:31:40.560 That's all I'm asking for
00:31:42.680 is a question being put
00:31:43.840 to the members.
00:31:44.500 And as you rightly point out,
00:31:45.860 Andrew, this there is no indication
00:31:48.900 in the Constitution anywhere
00:31:50.220 that these types of referendums
00:31:52.360 are limited by any particular matter.
00:31:55.460 So I think that this is in order
00:31:57.280 and frankly, democracy
00:31:58.800 is never out of order.
00:32:01.360 I know that a global news report
00:32:03.640 yesterday said
00:32:04.380 that your petition
00:32:05.420 and your campaign
00:32:06.300 is part of a multi-step process.
00:32:09.140 What else can we expect in this?
00:32:10.880 Who else is going to be
00:32:11.860 joining this call?
00:32:13.840 Well, there will be many people,
00:32:15.480 I think, that have come out
00:32:17.920 of public supporting this petition
00:32:20.720 and other measures
00:32:22.520 that are taking place.
00:32:23.860 I mean, I don't want to comment
00:32:25.040 on anything like that
00:32:26.660 for the future,
00:32:27.400 but I just really encourage people
00:32:30.120 to take a strong look at this.
00:32:31.800 If they disagree with me, fine.
00:32:33.480 But I really think that,
00:32:35.220 you know, the members
00:32:35.820 need to have the say right now.
00:32:37.640 And I know that there will be
00:32:38.960 a number of people,
00:32:40.940 both I'm sure current caucus colleagues,
00:32:44.060 although, you know,
00:32:44.940 there definitely are those
00:32:46.680 who have fears
00:32:47.940 about repercussions
00:32:48.840 from leadership.
00:32:49.580 And so that's why perhaps
00:32:51.640 I'm the one who's making,
00:32:54.220 you know, has launched
00:32:54.960 this petition right now.
00:32:56.180 But I know that there are already,
00:32:57.900 yesterday, we saw many people
00:32:59.260 coming out in support of this.
00:33:01.240 But I know there will be more people,
00:33:03.040 both current and former caucus members,
00:33:05.380 who agree with this,
00:33:06.500 but also, very importantly,
00:33:08.040 across the country,
00:33:09.000 members from across the country
00:33:10.540 have been hearing from people
00:33:11.700 from all across the country.
00:33:13.680 And this just echoes
00:33:14.880 what I heard
00:33:16.560 when I door knocked
00:33:17.720 in all three Regina ridings
00:33:19.920 in the last campaign
00:33:20.940 and what my caucus colleagues
00:33:23.020 were also hearing
00:33:23.900 from their constituents
00:33:24.740 in many other parts
00:33:25.740 of the country.
00:33:26.400 It's not just
00:33:26.860 a Western Canadian thing.
00:33:28.540 People have these concerns,
00:33:30.000 as I'm sure you've been hearing as well,
00:33:31.740 that we want to make sure also
00:33:33.940 that if we're part of this type
00:33:37.840 of a conservative party,
00:33:39.840 I mean, power without principles
00:33:41.280 is meaningless.
00:33:42.120 And power without principles
00:33:43.760 is the current Trudeau government
00:33:45.600 and no conservative wants that.
00:33:47.840 So we want to make sure
00:33:48.840 that we actually have a party
00:33:50.580 that is adhering to our principles,
00:33:52.500 that the members have agreed to.
00:33:54.340 And that very delicate balance
00:33:56.100 that was crafted
00:33:56.760 when the conservative party
00:33:57.760 was merged stays intact.
00:34:00.680 Just one final question,
00:34:02.220 if I may, Senator.
00:34:03.060 You were a supporter of Peter McKay.
00:34:05.300 You were, as you mentioned earlier,
00:34:07.180 from the PC tradition
00:34:08.720 and the PC lineage of the party.
00:34:10.460 A lot of other critics
00:34:11.920 of Aaron O'Toole right now
00:34:13.000 that I'm seeing
00:34:13.540 are from the blue Tory side of things,
00:34:16.460 a lot of pro-life
00:34:17.280 and social conservative members.
00:34:19.080 Do you think there's going to be a clash
00:34:20.700 in what needs to come next
00:34:22.520 if Aaron O'Toole's leadership
00:34:24.020 is being challenged
00:34:24.840 from really both sides of the party?
00:34:27.940 Well, what I've been hearing
00:34:29.260 is people who are signing
00:34:30.740 this petition
00:34:31.380 and who want this review
00:34:34.480 to take place
00:34:35.200 in this referendum to occur
00:34:36.620 from all people who supported
00:34:38.540 all of the candidates
00:34:39.920 in the last leadership race.
00:34:41.520 So it's not simply
00:34:42.300 one part of the party,
00:34:43.420 as you point out,
00:34:44.160 or another.
00:34:45.420 And, you know,
00:34:46.440 including people
00:34:47.120 who supported Mr. O'Toole.
00:34:48.620 And I think that that well could be
00:34:50.760 because they may feel
00:34:52.220 especially betrayed
00:34:53.640 because they supported him
00:34:56.300 as a true blue conservative.
00:34:58.380 And yet then only,
00:34:59.700 you know, one year later,
00:35:01.400 after he ran
00:35:02.400 in that leadership race,
00:35:03.380 he was campaigning in an election
00:35:05.540 in a way that,
00:35:07.520 from my point of view,
00:35:09.200 was much too similar
00:35:10.120 to what the Liberals
00:35:11.740 were campaigning on.
00:35:12.920 So we need to make sure
00:35:14.220 that what we have in place here
00:35:17.060 with the very core
00:35:18.040 conservative principles
00:35:19.240 that we have,
00:35:20.600 that needs to be respected.
00:35:23.820 And the members' voice
00:35:25.060 needs to be respected.
00:35:27.060 Senator Denise Batters,
00:35:28.580 the petition is at
00:35:29.540 membersvote.ca.
00:35:31.360 Senator, thanks very much
00:35:32.440 for your time today.
00:35:33.380 Thank you, Andrew.
00:35:34.220 Really appreciate it
00:35:35.180 and look forward to seeing
00:35:36.900 how many more people sign up.
00:35:38.800 That does it for me.
00:35:40.500 My thanks to Senator Denise Batters
00:35:42.320 for coming on the show today
00:35:43.280 and to all of you
00:35:44.100 for tuning in.
00:35:45.220 Let me know what you think,
00:35:46.080 Andrew at andrewlaughton.ca.
00:35:48.040 We'll be back in a couple days' time
00:35:49.600 with more of Canada's
00:35:50.860 most irreverent talk show
00:35:52.220 here on True North.
00:35:53.420 This is The Andrew Laughton Show.
00:35:54.760 Thank you, God bless,
00:35:55.720 and good day.
00:35:56.660 Thanks for listening
00:35:57.480 to The Andrew Laughton Show.
00:35:58.940 Support the program
00:35:59.740 by donating to True North
00:36:00.960 at www.tnc.news.
00:36:04.140 We'll be right back.