Juno News - Does O’Toole need a mandate to stay on as leader？ (Ft. Sen. Denise Batters)

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.660 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.800 Coming up, a look at the fight inside the Conservative Party of Canada over Aaron O'Toole's leadership

00:00:17.460 and Senator Denise Batters on her petition for a confidence vote on Aaron O'Toole.

00:00:23.760 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:30.000 Hello and welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:33.660 This is the Andrew Lawton Show on True North.

00:00:36.420 Thursday, no, it's not even Thursday, it's Tuesday.

00:00:38.900 I already am ready for the week to be over.

00:00:40.640 That's the kind of week it is.

00:00:42.180 Tuesday, November 16th, 2021.

00:00:45.640 I should say, I never used to give the date of the show.

00:00:49.280 And then I got an email from one listener who I've had a number of interactions with named Priscilla.

00:00:54.400 And she said, you know, you should really talk about what date it is

00:00:56.960 so that if you're listening to them out of order or you just are listening on your iPod

00:01:00.940 or do people use iPods, whatever it is, you know when it is that the show is contextualized.

00:01:06.360 And I said, that seemed like a great idea.

00:01:07.580 And then I forget every now and then, but then every now and then I do it and I get the date wrong.

00:01:11.740 So we'll still stick with it.

00:01:14.340 But just always double check the date if I give one that doesn't make sense to you.

00:01:18.180 Don't bother listening to me in that opening few seconds here.

00:01:21.260 Wait until all the good stuff comes later on in the show.

00:01:23.700 And we do have quite a bit of stuff to follow.

00:01:27.200 I'm going to be speaking with Senator Denise Batters very shortly.

00:01:30.180 She is the senator, the member of the Conservative Caucus who launched a petition to oust Erin O'Toole as leader.

00:01:37.580 Now, this one has more legs, as we say, than the petition launched by Bert Chen

00:01:42.180 on the Conservative Party's National Council a couple of months ago

00:01:45.760 because this is coming from someone who's a very well-known and very well-liked member

00:01:49.760 of the Conservative Caucus.

00:01:51.580 And it also sounds like perhaps there may be some other people joining this call,

00:01:56.500 perhaps members of Parliament, people that are more connected to the Conservative Party

00:02:01.720 than even Bert Chen was.

00:02:03.620 And I want to talk about this with Denise Batters, but I also want to set the stage a little bit

00:02:08.140 because already this has become a very significant fight in the Conservative Party

00:02:13.520 where you have caucus members digging their feet in and basically saying,

00:02:17.580 I'm with Erin O'Toole and I'm not with Denise Batters.

00:02:22.200 I want to first share the video.

00:02:23.920 It's a couple of minutes long, but I want you to understand where it is that this petition is coming from.

00:02:29.380 And then we'll talk about some of the mechanics of the petition.

00:02:31.900 But this is what Senator Denise Batters says is her chief objection to Erin O'Toole. 0.56

00:02:36.960 I'm Senator Denise Batters, and I'm launching a petition so that our party members can have their say

00:02:42.220 on the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada.

00:02:44.880 I've been a Conservative my whole life.

00:02:47.360 I came from the PC side of the party, and like so many others,

00:02:50.760 I worked hard to help merge the Canadian Alliance and PC parties

00:02:54.180 into our winning Conservative Party movement.

00:02:56.620 On behalf of Conservative activists and members from coast to coast,

00:03:00.760 we started this petition because we don't want to see this party ripped apart again.

00:03:05.360 When we're divided, the Liberals win.

00:03:08.260 Under Erin O'Toole's leadership, the rift in our party is growing.

00:03:11.980 He told us this is not your grandfather's Conservative Party

00:03:14.960 and warned campaigning MPs they must agree 100% with his new direction,

00:03:20.440 which constantly changes, or get out of caucus.

00:03:23.120 As leader, Mr. O'Toole has watered down and even entirely reversed our policy positions

00:03:29.340 without the input of party or caucus members.

00:03:32.580 On carbon tax, on guns, on conscience rights.

00:03:35.760 He flip-flopped on our policies within the same week, the same day,

00:03:39.800 and even within the same sentence.

00:03:42.120 He won the leadership, claiming to be true blue,

00:03:44.840 but ran an election campaign nearly indistinguishable from Trudeau's Liberals.

00:03:49.260 We can't afford more of the same.

00:03:51.160 Erin O'Toole lost this election by every measure. 0.99

00:03:55.620 Our party lost half a million votes,

00:03:58.080 claimed fewer seats and a lower popular vote than in 2019.

00:04:02.080 We lost diverse seats in MPs in the GTA, Alberta, and in Vancouver suburbs.

00:04:07.780 Mr. O'Toole's inability to communicate or connect with female voters

00:04:11.480 left us with an even wider gender gap.

00:04:14.820 Erin O'Toole lost a trust election to Justin Trudeau, of all people.

00:04:19.020 This campaign was not lost because of Mr. O'Toole's mistakes or inexperience.

00:04:24.880 It was lost because of what Canadian voters perceive as his character flaw,

00:04:29.500 that he is not trustworthy.

00:04:31.180 You can't come back from that.

00:04:33.700 Erin O'Toole lectured our party members on election night,

00:04:36.880 telling us we need to have the courage to change,

00:04:39.660 into what he hasn't yet said.

00:04:41.680 But members deserve to have a say on this change

00:04:44.740 and the future direction of this party, including our leadership.

00:04:49.080 Fellow Conservative Party members,

00:04:51.340 join me in signing this petition and make your voice heard.

00:04:54.680 So as you see, she makes a couple of key points here.

00:04:57.680 Number one, that Erin O'Toole betrayed Conservative principles. 1.00

00:05:01.520 Number two, that the election was lost.

00:05:03.800 It was a winnable election.

00:05:05.240 Could have been a Conservative victory, but it wasn't.

00:05:07.800 So snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, as they say.

00:05:11.060 And also that Erin O'Toole cannot win the next election. 0.55

00:05:13.920 And she says it's clear that O'Toole hasn't learned any of the lessons he needed to

00:05:17.980 from the last election.

00:05:18.980 And he's just doubling down and tripling down

00:05:21.980 and not actually standing firm on what he's supposed to be doing,

00:05:26.140 in her view, as a Conservative.

00:05:28.160 So this is her objection is that Erin O'Toole is not a real Conservative.

00:05:31.620 He's not a good leader.

00:05:32.800 And he's not doing any of the things that he needs to do

00:05:35.180 to head into the next election with better fortune than he had in the last election.

00:05:40.020 Now, one of the big fights that's taking place here is

00:05:42.960 from all of these Conservative insiders saying that,

00:05:45.740 oh, this is not actually a valid petition

00:05:47.920 and you can't actually get rid of the Conservative leader in this way.

00:05:51.860 And not that I like talking about the ins and outs of the Conservative Constitution,

00:05:55.880 but it is important here that it seems from a plain text reading

00:05:59.440 as though Denise Batters is in the right, 1.00

00:06:02.800 in the sense that this is a valid thing that she can do.

00:06:07.240 The Conservative Party Constitution says

00:06:09.660 that 5% of Conservative members in five provinces

00:06:13.380 can sign a petition to have a referendum about anything.

00:06:16.600 So if 5% of party members, and I don't know how many members there are,

00:06:21.160 in five provinces sign on to this, the party can have a referendum.

00:06:25.080 The referendum that she wants is as follows.

00:06:27.660 Do you wish to have a confidence vote on Erin O'Toole's continued leadership

00:06:31.220 of the Conservative Party of Canada by mail or virtually

00:06:34.480 at the earliest opportunity and, in any event, no later than June 30th, 2022?

00:06:41.040 Now, this is not a leadership review in a formal sense,

00:06:44.820 but it's a referendum on Erin O'Toole's leadership, 0.84

00:06:48.180 at the end of which, if he didn't get a strong showing,

00:06:50.740 he would have to resign.

00:06:52.000 It doesn't mean that he's being forced out,

00:06:54.000 but the party has a right to vote on anything.

00:06:56.620 The party could vote on whether Denise Batters should resign as a Conservative.

00:07:00.220 The party can vote on whether Erin O'Toole should no longer be the leader.

00:07:04.740 So that's what the party is trying to avoid right now.

00:07:07.840 Because right now, the party's constitution says,

00:07:10.540 after an unsuccessful election, you have to have a leadership review,

00:07:13.360 and that's scheduled at the next opportunity at a convention,

00:07:16.640 which is 2023.

00:07:18.400 Two years.

00:07:19.120 Two years.

00:07:19.580 And the standard approach to this, the standard response,

00:07:21.760 is that if you are in a minority situation,

00:07:24.000 and there's a high likelihood of going to the polls in the next two years,

00:07:27.620 you can't give the leader a freebie

00:07:29.540 when they're supposed to be subject to leadership review.

00:07:31.960 That's generally speaking,

00:07:33.420 and that's not an Erin O'Toole-specific thing.

00:07:35.280 I'm saying that's how this approach,

00:07:37.580 this discussion is being approached.

00:07:39.680 So all of that is to say,

00:07:41.480 Denise Batters is invoking a referendum right, 0.99

00:07:44.300 not a leadership review right,

00:07:46.340 in the Conservative constitution.

00:07:48.000 And if 5% of the members, again, in five provinces say,

00:07:51.100 yeah, we want to do this,

00:07:52.420 the party will not be able to say no.

00:07:55.760 Although the party is trying to muddle this,

00:07:57.900 the party is trying to say that this is not,

00:08:00.300 in fact, what the constitution says.

00:08:02.320 Rob Bathurston,

00:08:03.180 who's the president of the Conservative Party of Canada,

00:08:06.300 has said that the question you're proposing to ask

00:08:09.340 does not adhere to the constitution.

00:08:11.820 Your petition is not in order,

00:08:13.240 as it does not adhere to sections 7, 10, and 12.

00:08:16.440 As you're aware,

00:08:17.220 the constitution says that a leadership selection process

00:08:19.920 shall be initiated in one of the following circumstances,

00:08:23.360 the death or retirement of the leader,

00:08:25.260 the leader indicates an intention to resign,

00:08:27.920 or more than 50% of the votes cast at a national convention

00:08:31.480 are in favor of engaging the leadership selection process.

00:08:35.560 There is no provision under Article 10.8

00:08:37.960 for a leadership selection process

00:08:39.400 to be initiated by a petition or referendum under Article 12.

00:08:43.260 That is correct.

00:08:44.320 But as I just mentioned a moment ago,

00:08:45.840 a leadership can be triggered by the leader's resignation,

00:08:50.980 and the leader's resignation can be triggered

00:08:53.680 by a referendum or petition.

00:08:56.540 So that is, I think, the most important thing here,

00:08:58.880 is that the party is trying to use policy.

00:09:01.280 Dean Del Mastro,

00:09:02.220 former Conservative Member of Parliament,

00:09:03.780 says the party is trying to hide behind the constitution,

00:09:06.720 but the constitution doesn't even say

00:09:08.840 what the party's president says it's going to say.

00:09:11.500 So this could end up,

00:09:13.120 if Denise Batters reaches the threshold on her petition,

00:09:16.380 this could end up being a legal battle

00:09:18.060 if the party is not adhering to its own constitution.

00:09:22.000 I should say,

00:09:22.820 I don't want to make this entirely about the ins and outs

00:09:25.020 of Conservative Party of Canada governing documents.

00:09:27.540 I think those are relevant to how this is going to unfold.

00:09:30.380 But the more fundamental question here

00:09:31.980 is does Erin O'Toole have a mandate? 0.99

00:09:34.940 I talked last week about how he has conspicuously excluded

00:09:38.260 some members of his caucus from Shadow Cabinet

00:09:41.280 who very much should be included.

00:09:42.880 People like Leslyn Lewis,

00:09:44.540 people like Shannon Stubbs,

00:09:45.900 people like Chris Warkington,

00:09:47.640 Scott Reid,

00:09:48.360 longtime Conservative stalwarts

00:09:50.240 who I guess are just not sufficiently sycophantic

00:09:53.000 to O'Toole's OLO,

00:09:54.560 Office of the Leader of the Opposition,

00:09:56.240 that they don't have a place in the Shadow Cabinet.

00:09:59.480 Now, we don't know if other MPs are going to be joining this,

00:10:02.960 if members of the House of Commons

00:10:04.760 are going to be speaking up and joining this

00:10:07.060 or promoting this petition.

00:10:08.100 We do know that quite a few have said

00:10:10.560 they are standing with O'Toole.

00:10:12.560 Most notably was Michelle Rempel-Garner

00:10:15.100 who did a video,

00:10:16.280 and I'm going to play the whole thing.

00:10:17.580 I'm going to play the whole thing for you.

00:10:18.880 It's just under three minutes,

00:10:20.180 a video condemning Denise Batters

00:10:22.520 for taking attention away

00:10:24.000 from criticizing Justin Trudeau.

00:10:26.780 This is an open message

00:10:29.900 to my colleague from the Senate,

00:10:33.060 Denise Batters.

00:10:33.980 Denise, I have been working all week

00:10:38.300 on an issue that matters to my community.

00:10:41.060 Denise, I have been meeting with dozens of stakeholders,

00:10:46.100 talking to people from all across the country

00:10:49.760 on how we should fight Justin Trudeau's war on the energy sector.

00:10:54.620 That's what I've been doing this week.

00:10:56.080 I can't believe I have to use my Facebook platform to do this, Denise.

00:11:00.000 And so I'm about to do a bunch of media on this topic

00:11:02.540 and show Canadians that,

00:11:05.220 as the official opposition,

00:11:06.420 we're focused on Justin Trudeau.

00:11:07.680 But you know what, Denise,

00:11:08.400 I had to do this morning?

00:11:10.000 I had to respond to your petition

00:11:11.820 calling for a leadership review in the party.

00:11:15.000 You know what that does to me?

00:11:16.100 That clears my day

00:11:18.040 from being able to stand up with my constituents.

00:11:20.940 You know what it does?

00:11:21.820 It's going to fill the news tonight with your petition,

00:11:25.060 as opposed to my, like,

00:11:28.300 trying to hold Justin Trudeau to account

00:11:30.280 to get my community back to work.

00:11:31.740 I'm so frustrated with this.

00:11:34.040 You know, we can have differences internally in caucus.

00:11:37.640 We can have vigorous policy debates.

00:11:40.240 I'm happy to do that.

00:11:41.360 That's actually, that's good.

00:11:42.720 That comes up with better public policy.

00:11:44.340 But this open warfare that's happening right now,

00:11:48.880 like, the Liberals are pumping champagne to you.

00:11:51.740 I'm sure that the Liberals went out

00:11:52.980 and bought a case of champagne,

00:11:54.320 and they're going,

00:11:54.780 cheers, Denise Batters. 0.96

00:11:56.180 This is great.

00:11:57.740 Like, so the media tonight,

00:11:59.600 instead of talking about the energy sector

00:12:01.940 or, you know, the price of gas

00:12:04.380 or the nation's debt being out of control,

00:12:07.000 our colleague Pierre Paliyev

00:12:08.100 did an excellent press conference yesterday

00:12:10.080 talking about how inflation needs to be stopped

00:12:13.100 and what we could be doing.

00:12:13.940 Are they going to be running that?

00:12:15.200 Nope.

00:12:15.840 They are going to be talking about this petition.

00:12:18.440 And I am just so frustrated with this

00:12:22.000 because we have to get it together.

00:12:23.880 We're the opposition.

00:12:25.300 And Justin Trudeau right now,

00:12:27.260 because this is what's leading the news,

00:12:29.160 is this, this,

00:12:31.680 he gets a free ride today.

00:12:33.900 He's not, he's not,

00:12:34.940 his failures aren't leading the news tonight.

00:12:38.260 No, it's, it's our failures internally.

00:12:40.680 And I just think that that's irresponsible.

00:12:42.980 So I would like to get back to work.

00:12:45.160 I would like to be holding the government

00:12:48.100 to account on these issues.

00:12:50.260 And I, I mean, like, look,

00:12:51.540 of course we can have internal disagreements.

00:12:53.460 I, I think that's healthy.

00:12:55.720 But this, I am calling on you.

00:12:58.780 I'm asking you to withdraw your petition.

00:13:00.840 Have it out in caucus.

00:13:03.360 We have a caucus meeting tomorrow.

00:13:04.880 For those of you watching,

00:13:05.640 we actually have a caucus meeting tomorrow.

00:13:08.420 Couldn't have done this tomorrow.

00:13:09.600 Nope.

00:13:10.760 Had to do it today.

00:13:12.260 So Denise, I'm asking you to withdraw your petition 0.98

00:13:14.260 and let me get back to work.

00:13:15.960 Working hard for you in Calgary.

00:13:17.400 Have a great day.

00:13:18.060 Michelle Rempel-Garner's point,

00:13:19.980 and she puts this in a thread on Twitter as well,

00:13:22.840 is that all of the Conservative Party dirty laundry

00:13:25.640 should be kept internal.

00:13:27.280 The public voice should be on criticizing Justin Trudeau,

00:13:30.140 talking about affordability,

00:13:31.380 the war on the energy sector, all of that.

00:13:33.400 And she says Denise Batter should withdraw her petition

00:13:36.600 and have this debate out in caucus.

00:13:39.000 Now, remember, caucus does have the power

00:13:41.400 to oust Erin O'Toole.

00:13:43.800 Whether or not there are enough people in caucus

00:13:45.700 for that, I don't know.

00:13:46.660 But this is really just a fundamental divide

00:13:49.280 in who gets to decide Erin O'Toole's fate. 0.65

00:13:51.800 Should it be a bunch of people in caucus

00:13:53.640 or should it be the membership as a whole?

00:13:56.260 Denise Batters is saying it's the membership that decides

00:13:58.580 and Michelle Rempel-Garner is saying

00:14:00.700 that it is the caucus who decides.

00:14:03.980 And Candace Bergen as well,

00:14:05.540 she has said that she stands by Erin O'Toole's leadership.

00:14:08.960 Brad Redikop has said he's happy to stand

00:14:10.840 in support of Erin O'Toole.

00:14:12.680 So what this has done,

00:14:13.900 this letter from Senator Denise Batters,

00:14:16.120 the video, the petition,

00:14:17.480 have forced MPs to have to dig their heels in and say,

00:14:21.000 yes, I stand with Erin O'Toole.

00:14:23.800 And in the next couple of days,

00:14:25.160 it will be very interesting to see who hasn't.

00:14:28.320 Which MPs have not done that?

00:14:30.180 Which MPs have not expressed their undying support

00:14:33.560 for Erin O'Toole's leadership?

00:14:35.940 Now, listen, I think that Erin O'Toole 1.00

00:14:37.880 deserves another shot as leader

00:14:40.260 if he fights for that shot.

00:14:42.080 I've not heard anything from him

00:14:43.900 that really justifies why he should stay on as leader.

00:14:47.880 All he's talked about is that,

00:14:49.400 oh, there could be an election in 18 months,

00:14:50.900 so you've got to, you know, have me kick it around.

00:14:53.160 Well, that's not a good enough reason.

00:14:55.180 And remember, Andrew Scheer,

00:14:56.700 after the 2019 election,

00:14:58.160 was very clear that he was going to stay on.

00:15:00.600 And then it became abundantly clear

00:15:02.940 that there was not a political appetite

00:15:05.320 for him to do that,

00:15:06.500 that he didn't have the political capital

00:15:08.420 and he had to then step down.

00:15:11.260 Erin O'Toole, I think,

00:15:12.060 has a lot more people falling in line

00:15:13.960 behind him right now.

00:15:15.640 But I'm not sure how much of the base

00:15:18.100 is in that group.

00:15:19.960 I'm not sure how much of the conservative base,

00:15:21.620 the kind of people, the members

00:15:22.820 who would be voting in this referendum,

00:15:25.180 how much they are actually on side

00:15:27.200 with Erin O'Toole's leadership.

00:15:29.380 And I should tell you,

00:15:30.340 since the, well, through the election,

00:15:31.900 I was asking Erin O'Toole

00:15:33.220 for interviews all the time.

00:15:35.020 I did ask him numerous questions

00:15:36.500 at press conferences

00:15:37.320 when we were on the campaign trail with him,

00:15:39.500 but never got an interview.

00:15:40.880 Since the election,

00:15:41.860 I've asked a number of times

00:15:43.260 for a sit-down interview.

00:15:44.620 Make your pitch to conservative Canadians.

00:15:47.380 And every time it's,

00:15:48.540 okay, we'll get back to you.

00:15:49.300 And again, the offer still stands.

00:15:50.680 I reached out as recently as yesterday

00:15:52.880 after I saw Senator Batter's petition.

00:15:55.240 And I said,

00:15:55.680 let's have Erin O'Toole on the show, 1.00

00:15:58.120 speak to conservatives

00:15:59.100 against these critiques.

00:16:00.760 The invitation stands.

00:16:02.640 I will happily speak to him

00:16:03.800 at any opportunity.

00:16:04.700 I will get on a plane

00:16:05.940 and go to Ottawa for it.

00:16:07.080 I'll go to Durham

00:16:07.740 if he wants to do it in Iqaluit.

00:16:09.460 I might, well, not in December,

00:16:10.760 but later on,

00:16:11.560 I might go to Iqaluit

00:16:12.480 if that's where he wants to do it.

00:16:14.160 But it's an open invitation.

00:16:16.620 And I would love to hear

00:16:17.680 Erin O'Toole explain

00:16:18.680 why he should stay on

00:16:20.200 because there was an issue yesterday.

00:16:22.000 It was a funny clip

00:16:23.000 you should listen to.

00:16:24.240 I'm not going to play the whole thing

00:16:25.620 because it would just,

00:16:26.480 I'm playing a lot of video clips already.

00:16:28.140 But Pierre Polyev was doing

00:16:29.880 a press conference on the weekend

00:16:31.060 and he talked about defunding CBC.

00:16:33.200 And there was a reporter

00:16:34.420 that questioned him on that

00:16:35.620 and said, well, you know,

00:16:37.220 you're saying defund now,

00:16:38.440 but in the leadership,

00:16:39.300 in the election,

00:16:40.320 all Erin O'Toole was talking about

00:16:41.860 was reviewing.

00:16:42.800 Why are you saying defunding?

00:16:44.100 And Pierre says, listen,

00:16:45.320 I've always been for defunding.

00:16:46.640 I'm for defunding.

00:16:47.440 That's it.

00:16:48.140 But that's just one subtle example here

00:16:50.240 of how conservatives felt

00:16:52.620 kind of rolled on

00:16:53.660 by the conservative platform.

00:16:55.320 In the leadership race,

00:16:56.840 Erin O'Toole talked a big game,

00:16:58.020 was all about defunding,

00:16:59.280 privatizing CBC.

00:17:00.760 And then in the election,

00:17:01.480 it was, well, we'll have a review

00:17:02.740 and maybe look at

00:17:03.580 alternative business models.

00:17:05.280 Gun control, same sort of thing.

00:17:06.880 It was at one point,

00:17:07.920 yes, we're going to repeal

00:17:08.840 the order in council.

00:17:09.660 We're going to roll back

00:17:11.360 all of these liberal reforms.

00:17:12.540 And then a couple of days

00:17:13.400 of bad press and it was,

00:17:14.580 okay, we'll keep the bans in place.

00:17:17.080 Conscience rights in the platform

00:17:18.800 right there.

00:17:19.260 I can't remember the page,

00:17:20.140 but it was on the platform.

00:17:21.360 And then a couple of days

00:17:22.420 of bad press.

00:17:23.120 One question from,

00:17:24.000 I think it was the Globe and Mail.

00:17:25.180 And then all of a sudden,

00:17:26.240 Erin O'Toole walks that back 1.00

00:17:27.600 and says that he does no,

00:17:29.560 he no longer supports

00:17:30.620 conscience rights

00:17:31.340 for healthcare practitioners.

00:17:33.200 Says he's going to support

00:17:34.340 conscience rights

00:17:35.140 for members of his caucus.

00:17:38.000 And then what happens?

00:17:39.940 You have caucus members

00:17:41.500 being told they have to back

00:17:42.840 100% of the party's platform

00:17:45.060 if they want to sit

00:17:46.480 as conservative MPs.

00:17:48.640 Now I get the media onslaught

00:17:50.800 is not fun,

00:17:52.120 but I also get that Erin O'Toole 0.97

00:17:54.240 has to be held to account

00:17:55.880 by conservatives

00:17:57.220 to see if he has a mandate

00:17:59.120 to stay on.

00:18:00.020 And remember,

00:18:00.600 the party agrees.

00:18:02.220 The party agrees.

00:18:03.160 The party constitution agrees

00:18:04.580 that Erin O'Toole 0.99

00:18:05.600 should be subject

00:18:06.360 to a leadership review.

00:18:07.440 That is an automatic process.

00:18:09.580 The question is simply when.

00:18:13.140 So the idea

00:18:14.340 that we are talking about here,

00:18:16.360 that Senator Batters

00:18:17.360 is talking about,

00:18:18.300 of having a leadership review

00:18:19.780 sooner rather than later,

00:18:21.100 is really just expediting

00:18:22.840 a process that the party

00:18:24.060 says it welcomes,

00:18:25.820 that the party says

00:18:26.860 it's all for.

00:18:28.860 So if the review is important,

00:18:31.760 then why wait?

00:18:34.200 The reason you wait

00:18:35.360 is because if you wait long enough

00:18:36.680 that an election looks imminent,

00:18:38.140 you kind of have a bit

00:18:39.300 of a trump card in your pocket

00:18:40.500 if the writ is dropped

00:18:41.360 and you can say,

00:18:42.160 oh, well, I guess I'm the leader still.

00:18:44.420 Whereas if you do it now,

00:18:46.040 when people know

00:18:47.000 they have a bit of time,

00:18:48.820 then it actually makes it

00:18:50.160 very difficult for you to say

00:18:52.000 that people have to keep you on

00:18:53.880 because of expediency.

00:18:55.560 So you could have

00:18:56.140 a very vigorous leadership race

00:18:58.100 right now

00:18:59.340 if Aaron O'Toole were ousted

00:19:00.780 or if he resigned

00:19:01.580 or if he wanted to seek

00:19:02.940 a new mandate from the members,

00:19:04.240 whatever the case may be,

00:19:05.240 without risking the Conservatives

00:19:07.020 not being prepared

00:19:07.940 for the next election.

00:19:10.240 And that's the critical part here.

00:19:12.620 Now, Global News has said

00:19:14.200 that this is an open revolt.

00:19:16.160 Alex Boutillier says that

00:19:17.540 what's happening here

00:19:18.540 is a multi-step process.

00:19:20.160 This is just the first shoe to drop.

00:19:22.120 I don't know how many shoes.

00:19:23.020 Maybe there are two,

00:19:23.780 four, seven,

00:19:24.440 whatever it is.

00:19:25.660 Denise Batters,

00:19:26.420 again, I like Denise Batters. 0.97

00:19:27.760 I've interviewed her in the past.

00:19:29.620 And Senator Batters

00:19:30.760 is not a high-profile member

00:19:33.120 of the Conservative Party

00:19:34.280 outside of the Conservative Party,

00:19:36.720 I'd say.

00:19:36.960 I don't think any senator

00:19:37.800 is particularly high-profile.

00:19:39.780 So she may be the one

00:19:41.020 needed to woo over people 0.59

00:19:42.280 within the party,

00:19:43.120 which, again,

00:19:43.840 in a petition to members

00:19:45.000 may be all you need.

00:19:46.620 But you would need to see

00:19:48.260 some more bench strength,

00:19:49.620 specifically from the

00:19:50.620 House of Commons

00:19:51.340 Conservative Caucus here,

00:19:52.720 if you wanted to see this

00:19:54.340 really pushed in a direction

00:19:56.400 that makes it unavoidable

00:19:57.580 for Aaron O'Toole to stay on.

00:19:59.840 And I should say,

00:20:00.700 I am not calling

00:20:01.580 for Aaron O'Toole's resignation.

00:20:03.020 I'm calling for Aaron O'Toole

00:20:04.260 to be held to account,

00:20:06.700 to seek a mandate

00:20:07.800 for his continued leadership,

00:20:09.520 and to actually explain

00:20:11.040 to Conservative Canadians

00:20:12.540 why he deserves to stay on,

00:20:14.620 to answer to some of those issues,

00:20:16.120 like the flip-flop on CBC funding,

00:20:18.340 like on Conscience Rights,

00:20:19.460 like all of these things.

00:20:20.680 And, you know,

00:20:21.080 I pointed out something

00:20:21.960 that I think bears repeating

00:20:23.200 this week,

00:20:24.300 that there were four candidates

00:20:25.760 seeking the leadership.

00:20:27.500 One of them,

00:20:28.260 Derek Sloan,

00:20:28.820 has been kicked out of caucus.

00:20:30.000 Peter McKay was forced out

00:20:32.020 of seeking a seat

00:20:32.900 when he wanted to return

00:20:33.820 to politics.

00:20:34.840 Leslyn Lewis was elected

00:20:36.000 as a Conservative MP,

00:20:37.260 but has been shoved

00:20:38.260 to the back of the back benches

00:20:39.460 and has actually been reprimanded

00:20:41.680 for her open speech

00:20:42.940 by her leader.

00:20:44.020 So we know that MPs

00:20:45.200 that don't get on board

00:20:46.800 are going to be cast aside.

00:20:48.360 The question is how many of them

00:20:49.440 are in a place

00:20:49.980 where they want to speak up.

00:20:51.400 I mentioned last week as well

00:20:53.200 that all but 37

00:20:54.820 of the Conservative MPs,

00:20:57.100 so there are 119,

00:20:58.420 all but 37 of them,

00:21:00.080 were given some form

00:21:01.720 of a shadow cabinet

00:21:03.220 or deputy shadow cabinet spot.

00:21:04.860 That's a lot of people

00:21:05.840 that have been given a title

00:21:07.040 by Aaron O'Toole

00:21:08.000 that might not want

00:21:09.360 to speak up against him.

00:21:10.540 So I'd be looking

00:21:11.480 at those 37 first

00:21:13.040 and seeing where

00:21:14.160 they land on this.

00:21:15.860 So I want to bring

00:21:16.540 into this discussion now

00:21:17.660 Senator Denise Batter,

00:21:19.180 Saskatchewan Senator,

00:21:20.420 and the woman who launched 0.97

00:21:22.180 the petition to have

00:21:23.360 members of the Conservative Party

00:21:25.060 have their say.

00:21:26.060 Senator, thanks very much

00:21:27.040 for joining me today.

00:21:28.520 Oh, thank you very much

00:21:29.380 for having me on your show.

00:21:30.360 Really appreciate it, Andrew.

00:21:31.820 So let's start with the why now.

00:21:33.780 This is an election

00:21:34.680 that was just under

00:21:35.440 two months ago.

00:21:36.440 A lot of the concerns

00:21:37.480 that you've raised

00:21:38.440 in the petition

00:21:39.480 and in your video

00:21:40.380 and accompanying interviews

00:21:41.680 have been raised

00:21:42.860 by some members

00:21:43.780 of the Conservative base

00:21:44.780 really as recently

00:21:46.040 as the day after the election.

00:21:48.660 Why wait until now

00:21:49.940 to launch this initiative?

00:21:51.880 Well, I think right now

00:21:53.580 what's become clear

00:21:54.500 is the members

00:21:55.120 deserve to have a say.

00:21:56.820 And that's what I'm trying

00:21:58.020 to give them

00:21:58.520 an effective channel

00:21:59.320 to do that.

00:22:00.440 Because since becoming leader

00:22:02.100 and especially

00:22:02.800 during the federal election,

00:22:04.500 Aaron O'Toole

00:22:04.960 has repeatedly reversed

00:22:06.440 Conservative Party policies

00:22:07.720 without consultation

00:22:09.080 or input from party members

00:22:10.920 and caucus as well.

00:22:13.400 And it's critical,

00:22:14.360 I think,

00:22:14.660 that party members

00:22:15.440 be given a chance

00:22:16.800 to have their voice heard.

00:22:20.360 Otherwise,

00:22:21.140 I'm very concerned

00:22:21.860 that the party might split.

00:22:23.520 And that's what I've been

00:22:24.380 becoming increasingly concerned

00:22:25.980 about over the last

00:22:26.800 number of weeks

00:22:27.500 is that our party

00:22:28.660 could split in two again

00:22:29.740 and leaving the Liberals

00:22:30.960 to govern

00:22:31.400 for potentially another generation.

00:22:33.240 And that is

00:22:34.340 a very worrisome prospect

00:22:36.040 for a Liberal government

00:22:37.620 that's already done

00:22:38.360 so much damage

00:22:39.240 to so many parts

00:22:40.200 of this country,

00:22:41.040 including, for sure,

00:22:42.080 especially my region

00:22:43.160 of Western Canada.

00:22:45.220 You say that you want

00:22:46.420 to prevent a split,

00:22:47.940 but a number of

00:22:48.700 Conservative colleagues

00:22:49.660 of yours have said

00:22:50.480 that you're the one

00:22:51.080 being divisive

00:22:51.940 by launching a petition

00:22:53.480 like this

00:22:54.060 and making an internal fight

00:22:55.860 or what they believe

00:22:56.600 should be an internal fight

00:22:58.180 more public.

00:22:59.300 Right.

00:22:59.760 Well, I believe that

00:23:00.880 our members

00:23:01.820 deserve to have say.

00:23:02.980 This leadership review

00:23:03.980 is going to happen

00:23:04.980 one way or the other.

00:23:05.960 Right now,

00:23:06.820 it's scheduled

00:23:07.280 to happen in 2023.

00:23:09.760 I simply want it

00:23:10.800 to happen

00:23:11.180 in the normal course

00:23:12.040 of events,

00:23:12.520 which is usually

00:23:13.160 about six months

00:23:14.020 or so after an election loss.

00:23:15.960 That's what Mr. Harper

00:23:17.020 faced when he lost

00:23:18.440 the 2004 election.

00:23:19.980 That was actually

00:23:20.580 the first election

00:23:21.340 my husband was elected in.

00:23:22.960 So I remember

00:23:23.440 that time frame well.

00:23:25.080 And he was successful

00:23:26.300 in that leadership review.

00:23:27.760 Andrew Scheer

00:23:28.300 would have faced

00:23:29.020 the same sort

00:23:29.640 of leadership review

00:23:30.380 after the 2019

00:23:31.380 election loss,

00:23:32.940 but he had decided

00:23:34.880 to step down

00:23:35.820 as leader prior to that.

00:23:37.480 So this is the normal course

00:23:38.920 is around six months,

00:23:40.400 not two years.

00:23:41.960 So that's all I'm asking

00:23:42.980 is that especially

00:23:44.940 because not only

00:23:46.040 do we need to have

00:23:46.880 the members heard

00:23:47.680 on Mr. O'Toole's leadership

00:23:49.380 and their confidence

00:23:50.800 in that,

00:23:51.660 but also election night,

00:23:53.780 Aaron O'Toole said

00:23:55.020 that our members

00:23:55.940 needed to have

00:23:56.560 the courage to change.

00:23:57.760 And so if after

00:23:59.920 all of those

00:24:00.580 dramatic policy reversal

00:24:01.840 we've already seen,

00:24:03.380 including carbon tax

00:24:04.460 and guns and conscience rights,

00:24:06.040 things like that,

00:24:07.420 if we're only just starting

00:24:09.140 to go down the road

00:24:10.180 of increased number

00:24:11.880 of dramatic policy reversals,

00:24:13.980 the members need

00:24:14.880 to buy into that

00:24:16.280 and have a say

00:24:17.580 on what they think

00:24:18.580 about that.

00:24:19.700 Yeah.

00:24:21.200 I know that in 2019

00:24:22.960 after that loss

00:24:24.940 for the Conservatives,

00:24:25.840 you were very much,

00:24:27.000 if I recall,

00:24:27.760 wanting Andrew Scheer

00:24:28.880 to have the benefit

00:24:29.680 of a bit more time.

00:24:31.160 Why is it different now

00:24:32.100 with Aaron O'Toole?

00:24:33.480 It's not different 0.93

00:24:34.360 in the least.

00:24:35.160 Andrew Scheer

00:24:35.620 was going to face

00:24:36.580 that leadership review vote

00:24:38.200 that would have been held

00:24:39.240 at the party convention,

00:24:40.400 which was scheduled

00:24:41.080 to happen in

00:24:42.040 the following April,

00:24:43.520 which was six months

00:24:44.460 after that election occurred.

00:24:46.500 That's all I'm asking

00:24:47.560 that Mr. O'Toole

00:24:48.420 go through that same

00:24:49.340 sort of process.

00:24:50.440 And Andrew Scheer

00:24:51.840 had had a number

00:24:54.900 of different wins

00:24:55.800 in that particular election.

00:24:56.960 We increased our seat count

00:24:58.260 by 22.

00:24:59.220 We had significantly

00:25:00.560 increased the popular vote.

00:25:02.100 We had won some,

00:25:03.200 you know,

00:25:03.800 hard-fought seats

00:25:04.580 in key areas

00:25:05.480 that we needed to win

00:25:06.480 in the GTA

00:25:07.580 and in Vancouver suburbs

00:25:09.120 and places like that.

00:25:10.580 But in this past election

00:25:12.420 that we just had,

00:25:14.240 unfortunately,

00:25:15.540 under Mr. O'Toole's leadership,

00:25:17.560 we lost by every measure.

00:25:20.360 We lost seats.

00:25:21.760 We lost half a million votes.

00:25:24.500 We lost some of those

00:25:25.600 very hard-fought seats

00:25:26.840 in the GTA,

00:25:28.740 which he had contended

00:25:30.300 that his policy flip-flops

00:25:31.800 would lead us to win more

00:25:33.180 in the GTA.

00:25:34.000 Instead, what we saw

00:25:35.100 was losses there

00:25:36.740 in Alberta,

00:25:38.100 in Edmonton,

00:25:38.760 in Calgary,

00:25:39.440 in the Vancouver suburbs.

00:25:40.500 So these urban

00:25:41.900 and suburban seats

00:25:43.080 that Mr. O'Toole

00:25:44.960 was saying

00:25:45.780 that these types

00:25:46.740 of more centrist policies

00:25:48.680 would help us win,

00:25:50.760 we lost

00:25:51.320 by all of those measures.

00:25:53.220 Well, I think

00:25:54.020 your petition touches

00:25:54.980 on something

00:25:55.720 very important here,

00:25:56.800 which is that,

00:25:57.560 you know,

00:25:58.200 a lot of people

00:25:58.900 will overlook

00:25:59.520 a lot of things

00:26:00.300 if you win.

00:26:01.420 So the idea

00:26:02.260 of the appeals

00:26:03.080 to Quebec,

00:26:03.940 the moderation of policy,

00:26:05.520 if that had been

00:26:06.400 a gamble

00:26:06.880 that paid off,

00:26:07.840 I think some people

00:26:08.620 might be a lot more

00:26:09.740 forgiving of it.

00:26:10.880 But when you do that

00:26:11.980 and it doesn't work,

00:26:13.940 you're like,

00:26:14.520 well, what was it all for?

00:26:16.040 Yes, absolutely.

00:26:17.540 And also, I mean,

00:26:18.900 I actually come from

00:26:19.860 the PC side of the party,

00:26:21.640 so I'm not adverse

00:26:23.260 to centrist policies.

00:26:24.800 But the key is

00:26:26.380 that they have to be presented

00:26:27.660 with integrity

00:26:28.520 and consistency

00:26:30.360 and the support

00:26:31.560 and buy-in

00:26:32.160 of your members.

00:26:33.100 Because if you don't have that,

00:26:34.960 then you have no way

00:26:36.780 to present yourself

00:26:37.640 with credibility

00:26:39.440 to the voters of Canada,

00:26:41.060 which is the main thing

00:26:42.580 that we need to do here.

00:26:43.980 And if the members

00:26:44.600 had decided,

00:26:45.540 okay, yes,

00:26:46.080 we're going to moderate

00:26:46.880 on this element

00:26:48.120 or this element,

00:26:48.820 that's fine.

00:26:49.500 But that has not happened.

00:26:50.700 In fact,

00:26:51.500 our last policy convention

00:26:52.860 happened only in March.

00:26:54.820 And at that time,

00:26:55.680 we still had,

00:26:56.800 and we still do now,

00:26:58.240 have a policy platform

00:26:59.760 in our Conservative Party platform

00:27:01.640 that is anti-carbon tax.

00:27:04.900 Yet,

00:27:05.660 then the very next month,

00:27:07.000 in April,

00:27:08.160 Mr. O'Toole did

00:27:08.880 the 180-degree shift

00:27:10.340 on carbon tax.

00:27:11.760 And without the buy-in

00:27:12.840 of our members

00:27:13.480 or caucus,

00:27:15.020 what we had then

00:27:16.580 was we ran

00:27:17.360 an election campaign

00:27:18.560 just this summer

00:27:20.420 based on a carbon tax.

00:27:22.580 And, you know,

00:27:23.580 despite the fact

00:27:24.400 that we ran on that,

00:27:25.520 some people might say,

00:27:26.640 well, you know,

00:27:27.220 you should have tried

00:27:27.900 some more centrist policies.

00:27:29.480 Well, we had a carbon tax

00:27:30.720 and that did not

00:27:31.520 get us seats

00:27:32.140 in the GTA

00:27:32.880 or Vancouver suburbs.

00:27:34.940 In fact,

00:27:35.380 actually,

00:27:36.480 our election losses

00:27:38.780 were magnified

00:27:39.840 in those particular areas.

00:27:41.880 I know in last year's

00:27:43.320 leadership race,

00:27:44.180 you were a supporter

00:27:45.180 of Peter McKay.

00:27:46.600 Is there a successor

00:27:48.460 you have in mind

00:27:49.660 for this?

00:27:50.400 Either Peter McKay

00:27:51.200 or someone else

00:27:51.880 or is your imminent goal

00:27:52.820 just Aaron O'Toole

00:27:53.960 has to go?

00:27:55.260 My imminent goal

00:27:56.180 is giving the members

00:27:57.080 a say in whether

00:27:58.340 the members have

00:28:00.200 continued confidence

00:28:01.440 right now

00:28:02.060 in Mr. O'Toole's leadership,

00:28:04.240 but more importantly,

00:28:05.320 in this future direction

00:28:06.480 of the party.

00:28:07.320 Because when he says

00:28:08.080 courage to change,

00:28:09.040 what else is coming?

00:28:10.040 We need to know that.

00:28:11.380 And the members

00:28:12.080 who are the real bosses

00:28:13.200 of the Conservative Party,

00:28:14.800 they are the ones

00:28:15.480 that need to have a say

00:28:16.440 in that and indicate

00:28:17.360 that they're fine with it.

00:28:18.900 And I am someone who,

00:28:20.580 I'm just one voice

00:28:22.060 in this whole process.

00:28:23.680 The members who were,

00:28:25.100 there is potentially

00:28:25.720 hundreds of thousands

00:28:26.620 of them across the country.

00:28:27.880 We've already seen

00:28:28.720 extremely good support

00:28:30.040 for people signing

00:28:31.300 our petition.

00:28:32.000 And of course,

00:28:32.420 you need to be a member

00:28:33.300 to sign it.

00:28:34.560 If you've let your membership

00:28:35.740 lapse in the recent past,

00:28:38.560 you can renew it

00:28:39.380 and then sign the petition

00:28:40.780 if you just want

00:28:41.680 to have a say.

00:28:42.880 And perhaps the members

00:28:44.140 will decide that,

00:28:44.980 no, we're fine with this.

00:28:46.560 We disagree with you,

00:28:47.840 Senator Batters.

00:28:48.780 That's democracy.

00:28:51.020 Let's talk about

00:28:51.980 who should have that say

00:28:53.080 because I think

00:28:53.680 you've been very clear

00:28:54.420 it is in fact the members

00:28:55.580 and that should be

00:28:56.380 the cornerstone

00:28:57.120 of a grassroots party.

00:28:59.140 In her video

00:28:59.900 responding to your petition,

00:29:02.180 Michelle Remble-Garner,

00:29:03.200 a Conservative MP,

00:29:04.400 has said that this should

00:29:05.560 just be had out in caucus,

00:29:07.120 not in this broader scale.

00:29:09.280 What's your response to that?

00:29:11.320 Well, I think the members

00:29:12.220 always need to have a say

00:29:13.520 and that's certainly

00:29:14.500 what I'm hearing

00:29:15.140 from many of my caucus colleagues

00:29:17.800 as well as former MPs

00:29:21.120 and that sort of thing

00:29:21.960 and EDA presidents,

00:29:24.740 EDA members and volunteers

00:29:26.260 from across the country.

00:29:27.820 They want to have a say

00:29:29.380 and I don't think

00:29:30.740 that it's simply something.

00:29:32.480 I mean, the caucus avenue

00:29:33.640 as caucus voted

00:29:35.060 to give itself the right

00:29:36.320 to review Mr. O'Toole's leadership

00:29:38.580 if caucus chose to do that,

00:29:41.100 that's one avenue.

00:29:42.240 However, to sideline

00:29:44.460 the membership of the party

00:29:45.660 is not a good thing to happen.

00:29:47.980 We need to let them

00:29:48.860 have a voice in this whole process

00:29:50.960 and then they can decide

00:29:52.640 whether this is acceptable

00:29:54.060 to them or not.

00:29:55.820 I don't want to get into

00:29:57.040 a big debate

00:29:57.860 about the ins and outs

00:29:58.740 of the Conservative Party

00:29:59.900 of Canada constitution

00:30:00.880 because I think you and I

00:30:01.960 will both be asleep

00:30:03.080 as will most of our viewers here.

00:30:05.040 But I will say

00:30:06.060 just for a moment

00:30:06.760 that Conservative President

00:30:07.820 Robert Bathurston

00:30:08.820 has said that this is not

00:30:10.060 a valid or constitutional mechanism

00:30:12.700 for reviewing the leadership

00:30:14.500 that you're putting forward

00:30:15.480 and I think that

00:30:16.580 as I said earlier on the show

00:30:17.700 a plain text reading

00:30:18.900 of the Constitution

00:30:19.540 suggests you can have

00:30:20.580 a referendum on anything

00:30:21.740 and if Aaron O'Toole

00:30:23.120 looked at those results

00:30:24.120 and didn't feel he had a mandate

00:30:25.660 he would have to step down

00:30:27.280 and it doesn't need to be binding

00:30:28.700 for it to be effective.

00:30:30.020 But if the Conservative Party

00:30:31.660 doesn't have that referendum,

00:30:33.600 if the Conservative Party

00:30:34.900 does what it sounds like

00:30:36.220 Robert Bathurston is doing here

00:30:37.640 and saying that

00:30:38.280 this is not a legitimate petition,

00:30:40.200 how far are you prepared to go?

00:30:41.580 Well, we'll see what happens.

00:30:43.840 Already, as of when I checked

00:30:46.020 earlier today,

00:30:47.940 1,800 people had already

00:30:49.660 signed the petition.

00:30:50.680 So if we have a situation

00:30:51.700 where we have thousands

00:30:52.700 of Conservative Party members

00:30:54.200 signing this,

00:30:54.960 wanting this voice

00:30:56.000 and the party brass

00:30:59.360 rules it out of order,

00:31:00.380 that will not be acceptable

00:31:01.360 to the members.

00:31:02.060 And frankly, I'm a lawyer.

00:31:04.020 We've looked at this carefully

00:31:05.340 and I have briefly considered

00:31:08.000 Mr. Bathurston's response.

00:31:10.000 I don't agree with it.

00:31:11.640 He refers to particular parts

00:31:13.720 of the Constitution

00:31:14.400 that deal just with

00:31:15.340 leadership selection process

00:31:16.820 and says that this is not

00:31:18.740 my referendum request

00:31:20.820 is not allowed

00:31:21.420 because it doesn't comply

00:31:23.020 with the requirements for that.

00:31:24.140 But I'm not asking

00:31:25.040 that this be a leadership

00:31:26.540 selection process initiated.

00:31:28.600 I'm simply asking

00:31:29.520 that the members,

00:31:30.880 that the party conduct

00:31:31.680 a referendum of the members

00:31:33.120 in order to be able to,

00:31:34.420 for them to be able to decide

00:31:36.340 whether there should be

00:31:37.400 a confidence vote

00:31:38.400 in Erin O'Toole's

00:31:39.420 continued leadership.

00:31:40.560 That's all I'm asking for

00:31:42.680 is a question being put

00:31:43.840 to the members.

00:31:44.500 And as you rightly point out,

00:31:45.860 Andrew, this there is no indication

00:31:48.900 in the Constitution anywhere

00:31:50.220 that these types of referendums

00:31:52.360 are limited by any particular matter.

00:31:55.460 So I think that this is in order

00:31:57.280 and frankly, democracy

00:31:58.800 is never out of order.

00:32:01.360 I know that a global news report

00:32:03.640 yesterday said

00:32:04.380 that your petition

00:32:05.420 and your campaign

00:32:06.300 is part of a multi-step process.

00:32:09.140 What else can we expect in this?

00:32:10.880 Who else is going to be

00:32:11.860 joining this call?

00:32:13.840 Well, there will be many people,

00:32:15.480 I think, that have come out

00:32:17.920 of public supporting this petition

00:32:20.720 and other measures

00:32:22.520 that are taking place.

00:32:23.860 I mean, I don't want to comment

00:32:25.040 on anything like that

00:32:26.660 for the future,

00:32:27.400 but I just really encourage people

00:32:30.120 to take a strong look at this.

00:32:31.800 If they disagree with me, fine.

00:32:33.480 But I really think that,

00:32:35.220 you know, the members

00:32:35.820 need to have the say right now.

00:32:37.640 And I know that there will be

00:32:38.960 a number of people,

00:32:40.940 both I'm sure current caucus colleagues,

00:32:44.060 although, you know,

00:32:44.940 there definitely are those

00:32:46.680 who have fears

00:32:47.940 about repercussions

00:32:48.840 from leadership.

00:32:49.580 And so that's why perhaps

00:32:51.640 I'm the one who's making,

00:32:54.220 you know, has launched

00:32:54.960 this petition right now.

00:32:56.180 But I know that there are already,

00:32:57.900 yesterday, we saw many people

00:32:59.260 coming out in support of this.

00:33:01.240 But I know there will be more people,

00:33:03.040 both current and former caucus members,

00:33:05.380 who agree with this,

00:33:06.500 but also, very importantly,

00:33:08.040 across the country,

00:33:09.000 members from across the country

00:33:10.540 have been hearing from people

00:33:11.700 from all across the country.

00:33:13.680 And this just echoes

00:33:14.880 what I heard

00:33:16.560 when I door knocked

00:33:17.720 in all three Regina ridings

00:33:19.920 in the last campaign

00:33:20.940 and what my caucus colleagues

00:33:23.020 were also hearing

00:33:23.900 from their constituents

00:33:24.740 in many other parts

00:33:25.740 of the country.

00:33:26.400 It's not just

00:33:26.860 a Western Canadian thing.

00:33:28.540 People have these concerns,

00:33:30.000 as I'm sure you've been hearing as well,

00:33:31.740 that we want to make sure also

00:33:33.940 that if we're part of this type

00:33:37.840 of a conservative party,

00:33:39.840 I mean, power without principles

00:33:41.280 is meaningless.

00:33:42.120 And power without principles

00:33:43.760 is the current Trudeau government

00:33:45.600 and no conservative wants that.

00:33:47.840 So we want to make sure

00:33:48.840 that we actually have a party

00:33:50.580 that is adhering to our principles,

00:33:52.500 that the members have agreed to.

00:33:54.340 And that very delicate balance

00:33:56.100 that was crafted

00:33:56.760 when the conservative party

00:33:57.760 was merged stays intact.

00:34:00.680 Just one final question,

00:34:02.220 if I may, Senator.

00:34:03.060 You were a supporter of Peter McKay.

00:34:05.300 You were, as you mentioned earlier,

00:34:07.180 from the PC tradition

00:34:08.720 and the PC lineage of the party.

00:34:10.460 A lot of other critics

00:34:11.920 of Aaron O'Toole right now

00:34:13.000 that I'm seeing

00:34:13.540 are from the blue Tory side of things,

00:34:16.460 a lot of pro-life

00:34:17.280 and social conservative members.

00:34:19.080 Do you think there's going to be a clash

00:34:20.700 in what needs to come next

00:34:22.520 if Aaron O'Toole's leadership

00:34:24.020 is being challenged

00:34:24.840 from really both sides of the party?

00:34:27.940 Well, what I've been hearing

00:34:29.260 is people who are signing

00:34:30.740 this petition

00:34:31.380 and who want this review

00:34:34.480 to take place

00:34:35.200 in this referendum to occur

00:34:36.620 from all people who supported

00:34:38.540 all of the candidates

00:34:39.920 in the last leadership race.

00:34:41.520 So it's not simply

00:34:42.300 one part of the party,

00:34:43.420 as you point out,

00:34:44.160 or another.

00:34:45.420 And, you know,

00:34:46.440 including people

00:34:47.120 who supported Mr. O'Toole.

00:34:48.620 And I think that that well could be

00:34:50.760 because they may feel

00:34:52.220 especially betrayed

00:34:53.640 because they supported him

00:34:56.300 as a true blue conservative.

00:34:58.380 And yet then only,

00:34:59.700 you know, one year later,

00:35:01.400 after he ran

00:35:02.400 in that leadership race,

00:35:03.380 he was campaigning in an election

00:35:05.540 in a way that,

00:35:07.520 from my point of view,

00:35:09.200 was much too similar

00:35:10.120 to what the Liberals

00:35:11.740 were campaigning on.

00:35:12.920 So we need to make sure

00:35:14.220 that what we have in place here

00:35:17.060 with the very core

00:35:18.040 conservative principles

00:35:19.240 that we have,

00:35:20.600 that needs to be respected.

00:35:23.820 And the members' voice

00:35:25.060 needs to be respected.

00:35:27.060 Senator Denise Batters,

00:35:28.580 the petition is at

00:35:29.540 membersvote.ca.

00:35:31.360 Senator, thanks very much

00:35:32.440 for your time today.

00:35:33.380 Thank you, Andrew.

00:35:34.220 Really appreciate it

00:35:35.180 and look forward to seeing

00:35:36.900 how many more people sign up.

00:35:38.800 That does it for me.

00:35:40.500 My thanks to Senator Denise Batters

00:35:42.320 for coming on the show today

00:35:43.280 and to all of you

00:35:44.100 for tuning in.

00:35:45.220 Let me know what you think,

00:35:46.080 Andrew at andrewlaughton.ca.

00:35:48.040 We'll be back in a couple days' time

00:35:49.600 with more of Canada's

00:35:50.860 most irreverent talk show

00:35:52.220 here on True North.

00:35:53.420 This is The Andrew Laughton Show.

00:35:54.760 Thank you, God bless,

00:35:55.720 and good day.

00:35:56.660 Thanks for listening

00:35:57.480 to The Andrew Laughton Show.

00:35:58.940 Support the program

00:35:59.740 by donating to True North

00:36:00.960 at www.tnc.news.

00:36:04.140 We'll be right back.

Juno News - November 17, 2021

Does O’Toole need a mandate to stay on as leader？ (Ft. Sen. Denise Batters)

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