Juno News - Doughnutgate, Shunning Socons, Blaming Gun Owners, and Why University Isn't For Everyone

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.620 This is The Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:13.520 Coming up, the importance of social conservatives to the conservative movement,

00:00:18.020 Bill Blair's attempt to grab your guns, and why university's not for everyone.

00:00:24.280 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:30.580 Hey everyone, welcome to another edition of The Andrew Lawton Show on True North,

00:00:35.540 Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show, the place for, well, irreverence.

00:00:39.620 You heard it, that's what we're doing here.

00:00:41.380 Thanks very much for all the support in the first week of the show.

00:00:45.120 The first couple of episodes came out last week.

00:00:47.360 We had great fun, Gad Saad, Aaron Woodrick, lots of little fodder for discussion

00:00:52.460 from Canada, from around the world, and it was an absolute delight.

00:00:56.140 So thanks very much to all of you who tuned in.

00:00:58.760 And to all of you who sent kind and encouraging, and even less kind and less encouraging feedback,

00:01:05.360 my personal favorite was from a YouTube commenter who took aim at my attempt to figure out the

00:01:10.420 correct word for the collection of coins.

00:01:12.860 I had a little bit of an aside.

00:01:15.040 You may remember I was talking last week about the coins that the Royal Canadian Mint released

00:01:19.240 that had two wolves that appeared to be engaged in the carnal act of lovemaking.

00:01:24.460 And that was not the name of the coin, the carnal act of lovemaking series.

00:01:28.720 That was, I think, two years ago with the Nichols.

00:01:31.500 But I was, you know, just spitballing and having fun with it, and I was deciding out loud

00:01:37.580 what the proper word is for the collection of coins.

00:01:41.300 And I was just kind of joking around, and I was like, numismatics, numismatistry.

00:01:44.820 And someone was very offended by the fact that I didn't just pick one and commit to it,

00:01:50.380 that I on air decided to, you know, walk through the process like it was a spelling bee.

00:01:55.560 And I'm like, it's meant to be fun.

00:01:57.180 The show is meant to be a conversation.

00:01:59.040 So thanks to anyone who gave feedback, even that person, because they at least reminded

00:02:03.660 me of the need to have fun when you're doing stuff like this.

00:02:07.300 And no one has sent me that coin, by the way.

00:02:10.140 I mean, it's $1,000, so I wasn't expecting it to show up.

00:02:12.900 But you never know.

00:02:13.620 You never know.

00:02:14.480 You know, if you are interested in supporting the show, though, I assure you there are better

00:02:18.060 ways to do it than with a $1,000 coin worth $250 worth of silver.

00:02:23.860 So that being said, all gifts are appreciated.

00:02:27.240 Don't send me any gifts.

00:02:28.360 I already have enough stuff.

00:02:29.440 In any case, we are going to talk about a few things on the show today.

00:02:33.480 I want to get to this comment that Pierre Polyev made that is certainly one that he's

00:02:39.320 making, I think, to help his leadership ambitions, but one that I think harms the conservative

00:02:44.320 movement in the long run.

00:02:45.660 That's coming up very shortly.

00:02:47.700 Also, a bit of an update on the gun control plans from the liberals.

00:02:52.060 Bill Blair has not announced anything new per se, but he's given a little bit more of

00:02:57.960 a basis for understanding how the liberals are going to target law-abiding gun owners.

00:03:03.480 And a couple of other little odds and ends.

00:03:05.720 In particular, I'm going to talk to Jordan Goldstein later on.

00:03:09.080 He is a Laurier professor who was one of the ones who really amassed in that group of people

00:03:14.620 supporting free speech a couple of years ago when Lindsay Shepard decided to take a stand

00:03:20.000 for free speech.

00:03:20.980 And he'll join me to talk about something not connected to the free speech fight necessarily,

00:03:25.740 but a topic that I think people need to hear.

00:03:28.420 And that is why university is not for everyone, which is common and self-evident, but I think

00:03:35.140 an important point to stress, given that we still see schools forcing kids into that situation

00:03:41.780 when it doesn't make sense.

00:03:43.360 It doesn't necessarily help them, depending on what they want.

00:03:46.580 And in some ways, it even hurts them, specifically financially.

00:03:50.160 So we'll talk about that with Jordan Goldstein later on in the show.

00:03:53.300 So, but just, I want to have a bit of fun with this one because Donutgate has, I don't know

00:03:58.540 if it's a gate.

00:03:59.040 It's probably not a gate.

00:04:00.360 You know, gate is funny though, because Kathy Shadle, who's a blogger and a good friend of

00:04:04.560 mine, she hates using gate because it's a Republican scandal. 1.00

00:04:08.560 She prefers to use Quiddick behind everything because of, you know, Ted Kennedy's Chappaquiddick

00:04:13.780 driving murder.

00:04:15.780 And I think it's actually great.

00:04:17.880 I just always forget it until it's too late.

00:04:20.120 So we'll call it Donutquiddick to keep with Kathy Shadle's rule.

00:04:24.600 You may have seen on Twitter, Justin Trudeau in Winnipeg for the cabinet retreat decides

00:04:28.800 to buy seven boxes of donuts from a Winnipeg bakery called Oh Donuts.

00:04:35.240 And we'll call them True Donuts now because that's what they are.

00:04:39.420 And the donuts, so, okay, let me just preface this by saying, I don't think this is earth

00:04:46.480 shattering news.

00:04:47.320 I think it's amusing and I think it shows the value of political messaging.

00:04:52.680 One of the three big things the cabinet members are talking about in Winnipeg is growing the

00:04:58.560 middle class.

00:05:00.360 Oh Donuts charges $47 a dozen, which is just under $4 a donut.

00:05:05.980 If you buy them individually, you're paying close to $5 a donut.

00:05:09.260 So the idea of gorging on gourmet donuts while fighting for the middle class is an amusing 0.91

00:05:14.920 little juxtaposition.

00:05:16.280 Now, Trudeau goes, picks them up, says to Oh Donuts that it is the way to keep us going

00:05:23.220 through another full day of cabinet meetings.

00:05:26.040 And to be honest, if I were going to be trapped in a room full of liberal cabinet ministers for

00:05:30.060 three days, I would need something to keep me going.

00:05:32.820 Gourmet donuts may well be the answer to that question.

00:05:35.980 He also tweets it in French because you can't just pander with your support of a local business

00:05:41.200 in English, you have to do it in both official languages.

00:05:44.100 But I find it hilarious because the little sort of optics of these things, and I don't

00:05:49.480 know whether the liberal caucus paid for this, whether the donut shop gave them for free or

00:05:54.340 whether the government paid for it.

00:05:56.880 I'm assuming it's probably the government because it's a cabinet retreat.

00:05:59.880 But again, we're talking about, you know, even if they got seven dozen donuts, you know,

00:06:04.220 350 bucks, not a huge sum of money in the grand scheme of things.

00:06:09.180 But the optics of these things matter in some respects.

00:06:12.640 If you look at the Bev Oda orange juice as one example, Bev Oda, Harper Minister,

00:06:17.940 pilloried for having $16 glass of orange juice at, I think it was the Savoy.

00:06:22.540 Was it the Savoy?

00:06:23.580 I don't know who I'm asking.

00:06:24.360 The Savoy Hotel in London, I believe, that sounds like where they would charge $16 for

00:06:29.900 an orange juice glass.

00:06:31.660 And that relates to people in a way that $1.4 billion to the CBC doesn't necessarily.

00:06:39.220 And I remember I had a story years ago where I found a minister had spent, I think it was

00:06:44.660 like $17 at Jamba Juice to get two smoothies.

00:06:48.100 And I had done a little fun tongue-in-cheek story about this saying, okay, the $16 orange juice

00:06:53.100 was a national scandal, why not the Jamba Juice?

00:06:55.740 Why is that not a scandal as well?

00:06:57.940 And it did get mentioned in the House of Commons, my story.

00:07:00.920 It didn't make national headlines, but it did get mentioned in the House of Commons.

00:07:04.840 So I may, I entered the Hansard record, which was just a lovely little treat there.

00:07:10.280 But the one thing that I find hilarious about this is that, you know, a dozen donuts at Tim

00:07:14.480 Hortons, $9.99 or something like that.

00:07:16.600 A dozen from this O'Donuts place, $47.

00:07:19.340 They're probably great donuts.

00:07:20.720 They're probably better donuts than the ones you get at Tim Hortons.

00:07:23.660 And I do not begrudge anyone for enjoying the finer things of life.

00:07:28.180 The problem that I have with it is that lawmakers are perpetually disconnected.

00:07:33.540 And that's why stories like this do tend to go around the world as quickly as they do,

00:07:39.520 or around the country at least, because the middle class is like, you know, I don't pay 1.00

00:07:44.900 $5 a pop for donuts.

00:07:46.360 That's why are you on my dime while you're talking about all of this stuff.

00:07:51.180 And I know there are a bunch of people saying, is this really news?

00:07:54.420 No, it's not news.

00:07:55.420 It's interesting and it's fun.

00:07:57.400 And I think that if Justin Trudeau wants to tweet about it to say, oh, look at me.

00:08:01.040 I'm, you know, buying fancy hipster donuts.

00:08:03.660 Then we get to say, ha ha ha, the joke's on you.

00:08:06.440 That's the trade-off.

00:08:07.360 If you put it out there, they get to criticize it as well.

00:08:10.800 So in any case, we are not going to talk about True Donuts anymore, although I'm curious

00:08:15.960 because the website of the Donut Place lets you, I think for $1.50 or something, extra

00:08:21.300 upgrade it.

00:08:22.660 And I don't know if the Liberals splurged on the extra sprinkles.

00:08:25.400 That is the question that I think needs to lead, question period.

00:08:28.620 That is the question that the conservative leadership candidates must really be driving

00:08:33.300 for an answer to.

00:08:35.380 On the note of the leadership, let's talk about Pierre Polyev for a moment here, because this

00:08:40.040 is a guy who I think is quickly emerging as one of the front runners in the leadership

00:08:45.440 race, despite not having actually thrown his name into the hat formally in the leadership

00:08:51.320 race.

00:08:52.780 And Pierre Polyev has decided to draw a firm line in the sand on social conservative issues

00:08:59.020 and say, not going to be a part of my leadership campaign and not going to be a part of the

00:09:04.580 conservative party if I am elected to lead it.

00:09:08.100 Now, this comes from La Presse.

00:09:11.920 And in an interview, Polyev says he supports gay marriage, period.

00:09:16.780 He said he voted against it 15 years ago, but he learned a lot.

00:09:20.440 Like millions and millions of people across Canada and around the world, I find that gay

00:09:24.580 marriage is a success.

00:09:26.420 The institution of marriage must be open to all citizens, regardless of their sexual orientation.

00:09:31.980 Now, this is a statement that if it's true, I think is great.

00:09:38.560 If it's true, this is what he believes.

00:09:40.600 I think that's fine.

00:09:41.860 He has had to do what Andrew Scheer was called on to do, which is explain how you get from

00:09:48.980 point A, which was voting against something, to point B, which is saying that you have no

00:09:53.920 problem with it.

00:09:55.120 And Andrew Scheer's issue on this was a lack of clarity.

00:09:58.420 He couldn't quite articulate what it was that he thought, felt, wanted to do.

00:10:04.520 Whereas Pierre Polyev is saying, that's what I thought.

00:10:06.900 I've learned a lot.

00:10:07.900 I think gay marriage is fine.

00:10:09.540 I think it's great.

00:10:10.220 I think it's a success.

00:10:11.260 That is a much firmer line than I'm not going to touch it.

00:10:15.880 I'm, you know, I'm just, which was kind of how Andrew Scheer's position came across at

00:10:21.500 time.

00:10:21.740 Now, to be clear, I think that the bigger problem with Pierre Polyev's comments is not

00:10:28.020 about the gay marriage issue, but how he's going to view anyone who believes these things

00:10:34.620 that are different than what he believes in the caucus.

00:10:38.060 And that's where we get to the abortion question, which was also a part of this interview.

00:10:43.400 He says that any conservative government he would lead would never introduce a bill on

00:10:48.580 this issue, but he would go further and ensure that no bill, even a private member's bill

00:10:55.500 would ever pass either.

00:10:57.900 There are two ways to read this.

00:10:59.460 He's saying that he'll ensure that he blocks a private member's bill by voting against it

00:11:03.880 and ensuring his caucus does, or he just won't even let it make it to the floor.

00:11:08.400 That's the alternative to this.

00:11:10.160 But he's basically saying that no conservative MP under his leadership, under his government

00:11:16.060 will be permitted to push a legislation like this forward and have it be voted on based

00:11:22.400 on conscience rights.

00:11:23.360 Because one way or another, whether it's blocking it from debate or just voting against it, he's

00:11:28.200 saying this is not going to pass if I have my way about it.

00:11:32.320 Now, this is huge.

00:11:33.720 And I think that there are a couple of reasons for this.

00:11:36.260 Number one, this goes basically to the Justin Trudeau position, which is not even just,

00:11:43.320 you know, I as a leader and my party as a government is not going to do this, but I am going to

00:11:48.960 make sure that individual MPs who have these conscientious beliefs don't get to act or govern

00:11:55.060 or legislate on them or vote their conscience on them either.

00:11:58.460 And that's very dangerous for a conservative party because the conservative party is the only party

00:12:06.080 in which a sizable portion of its membership is social conservatives.

00:12:11.200 And that's a huge problem for Pierre Polyev.

00:12:14.620 If you look at the numbers from the last conservative leadership race, and I'm going to pull these up

00:12:19.220 because I know I've cited them before, but I think it bears repeating here.

00:12:22.980 In 2017, there were social conservative votes that at the end of the race accounted for

00:12:31.020 14.3% towards Brad Trost.

00:12:34.920 And ultimately at the end, 50.95% of the votes went to Andrew Scheer.

00:12:40.000 Of those, I don't know how many were social conservative.

00:12:42.960 But in the 11th round of balloting, 30.28% of the votes cast were for Andrew Scheer.

00:12:50.540 14.3% of the votes cast were for Brad Trost.

00:12:55.380 Of those two, that is 44% or 44.6% almost of the votes in the leadership race at that particular

00:13:03.460 juncture that were for a social conservative.

00:13:07.140 Now, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that not every Scheer voter was a social conservative.

00:13:12.000 I get that.

00:13:13.140 But they were at least open to a social conservative, and many of them, in fact, held those beliefs

00:13:18.720 as well.

00:13:20.080 But even if you just take the Brad Trost numbers, or before it was just Brad Trost, Brad Trost

00:13:25.860 and Pierre Lemieux, you're talking about a big chunk of the conservative party membership

00:13:31.180 and the conservative party base right here that believe in some set of socially conservative

00:13:37.620 values.

00:13:38.320 Now, in some cases, it might be opposition to abortion.

00:13:40.720 In some cases, it might be about the transgender and gender identity discussions.

00:13:46.060 In other cases, it may even be that they have a moral objection to gay marriage.

00:13:50.040 No one in the party is talking about legislating on gay marriage.

00:13:54.540 No one.

00:13:55.240 No one is talking about touching it.

00:13:57.660 In fact, even Andrew Scheer, who I think the media was trying to brand as this huge homophobe,

00:14:03.460 was not interested in going after any of these things that were settled matters of law, even

00:14:10.180 abortion.

00:14:11.760 But the problem is that the only way to get any traction on these issues, any discussion

00:14:17.580 on these issues, is by allowing backbenchers who believe these things to stand up and say

00:14:22.800 it.

00:14:22.960 And this happened in Stephen Harper's government.

00:14:25.840 Stephen Harper was resistant to the conservatives really touching abortion as a party and his

00:14:31.560 government as a government doing it.

00:14:33.860 And I think that behind the scenes, there were a number of situations where stuff was stymied

00:14:39.760 or held back.

00:14:40.740 But still, when push came to shove, pro-life MPs like Stephen Woodworth, Harold Albrecht,

00:14:46.500 Rod Brannouge, a sizable pro-life caucus, were able to put forward motions.

00:14:52.900 And there was very successful work that was done on this file.

00:14:55.940 I mean, some things that ultimately didn't go where we wanted them to go, like the Unborn

00:15:00.460 Victims of Crime Act, which was a great legislation, or the motion that Stephen Woodworth wanted to

00:15:06.260 basically have a discussion in Canada.

00:15:08.960 And this was a motion that, I think, why would we turn down the opportunity to revisit

00:15:14.020 something that Parliament has never explored to the depths that it should have?

00:15:19.960 And all of these different things, which should have been part of the free exchange of ideas,

00:15:25.600 now under a Pierre Polyevre government, it sounds like, would be banned, would be no longer.

00:15:31.560 And this is going, as I said, far beyond even the Andrew Scheer position, far beyond the

00:15:36.620 Stephen Harper position.

00:15:37.640 This appears on the surface to be the Justin Trudeau position, which is that you only get

00:15:44.220 to talk about the issues that the leader says you can talk about.

00:15:48.180 And that is not the way you grow a party.

00:15:50.300 That's not the way you respect freedom.

00:15:52.380 And more importantly, that's not the way you win over the conservative base and the conservative

00:15:57.980 membership.

00:15:58.560 Because every vote you pick up on the left, you have to lose one on the right.

00:16:04.560 And there's a lot more competition for votes in the centre and votes on the left.

00:16:09.340 And this isn't to say that leadership candidates and leaders don't need to compromise, reach

00:16:14.680 across the aisle.

00:16:15.740 But I think that the social conservative problem in Canada right now, the way the media presents

00:16:22.140 it, is a communications problem more than a beliefs problem.

00:16:26.720 This is a hugely distinct issue.

00:16:30.520 The way that the right communicates its beliefs on social issues versus what they actually think

00:16:37.120 about it.

00:16:37.800 And sure, the media is always going to jump up and down and say that, oh, Andrew Scheer is

00:16:42.200 evil because he thinks this, or that this person's evil because they think this.

00:16:46.160 But in a lot of cases, people will reward an honest and transparent accounting of what

00:16:52.220 you believe and why.

00:16:54.240 And you have to articulate it on your terms, but you can never shy away from it.

00:16:58.920 You can never hide your beliefs if your beliefs are a cornerstone of who you are.

00:17:04.060 The fact is, there are millions of Canadians who are religious and hold religious beliefs.

00:17:09.740 There are millions of Canadians who are pro-life, some of them for religious reasons, others

00:17:14.120 for entirely distinct reasons from religion and from faith.

00:17:18.160 There are Canadians that have all sorts of differing opinions on transgender identity issues

00:17:24.340 right now.

00:17:25.040 And this is being presented to us as the next frontier in these sorts of identity-based discussions.

00:17:31.600 And all of these issues need to be tackled by lawmakers that are unafraid to realize there

00:17:38.240 are different beliefs and different perspectives on these matters.

00:17:41.700 And that doesn't mean they have to pander to every group, but it means they have to understand

00:17:46.760 that there are different viewpoints out there.

00:17:49.760 And for any leadership candidate, for any political leader to say, we are prohibiting people that

00:17:55.380 believe certain things from speaking up on those issues if they want to be in our caucus,

00:18:00.060 they are actually saying to Canadians that have these views, millions of them in fact,

00:18:05.140 your views are not welcome in politics.

00:18:09.040 Your views are not welcome in government.

00:18:12.460 And the problem with that, while it is certainly a political tactic that may reward in the media,

00:18:19.480 is that there are millions of Canadians out there who are going to say, well, why are you

00:18:24.380 worthy of my vote then?

00:18:26.140 Why are you worthy of my support?

00:18:28.920 Why are you worthy of my money?

00:18:30.340 And that's the issue that conservative members now get to decide as they decide who the leadership

00:18:36.600 candidates are going to be that get their vote on this ranked ballot.

00:18:40.800 And social conservatives are already saying, okay, Pierre Palliev's off my ballot because

00:18:46.020 he's not even going to let my local MP who's pro-life speak up and introduce a private

00:18:52.020 members bill or vote on a private members bill.

00:18:54.500 Now, I've said time and time again, we're going to be interviewing the leadership candidates.

00:18:58.140 And this is something I want to talk to Pierre about.

00:19:00.480 I think Pierre has a lot of good that he's offering.

00:19:02.900 I am fully prepared to accept that there may be more to this that hasn't been reported.

00:19:07.380 And I want to know about free votes.

00:19:09.560 Will he allow free votes?

00:19:11.520 And I want to know what the true position is, not just on social issues.

00:19:16.020 I don't care if he's pro-choice, pro-life, all of that stuff.

00:19:19.200 But I want to know, is he going to accept that these different groups make up a big part

00:19:24.680 of the Conservative Party?

00:19:26.020 And Aaron O'Toole, who's not a social Conservative by any stretch, has come out already and said,

00:19:32.620 listen, I'm a unifier.

00:19:34.020 I realize that the big blue tent has social Conservatives in it.

00:19:38.060 I think all Conservatives of all stripes are welcome.

00:19:41.840 And this was in response to a great piece that Sean Spear had in the National Post about

00:19:46.700 how social Conservatives cannot be excluded from the discourse.

00:19:50.540 And we might have to talk to Sean Spear about that in a future show.

00:19:54.760 So to Pierre Polyev, be very careful what you wish for, because the media may be demanding

00:20:01.040 a social Conservative free zone for Conservatives.

00:20:05.840 But this is, at the very least, 15% of the Conservative membership that is probably going

00:20:12.440 to go elsewhere now.

00:20:13.800 We'll talk about this, I'm sure, more in the weeks and months to come.

00:20:16.500 When we come back, more of The Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.

00:20:22.860 Welcome back to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:20:29.400 Last week, I spoke a little bit about CBC's bias.

00:20:33.180 And this is just a classlessness story from CBC now.

00:20:37.800 John Crosby, the former Lieutenant Governor of Newfoundland, passed away and had deservedly,

00:20:43.600 I'd say, a state funeral.

00:20:45.720 Now, John Crosby was an Atlantic Canadian Conservative.

00:20:49.340 I mean, we were talking in the first segment about social Conservatives.

00:20:52.580 He was a guy that basically stood up for the values of old school Toryism.

00:21:00.440 He wasn't an ideologue in the sense that we see some people in the Conservative movement now.

00:21:05.620 But he was still on the right.

00:21:07.020 He was still a decent man and an honourable man.

00:21:09.080 And this is the headline that CBC runs with in one particular column.

00:21:14.040 John Crosby is dead and gone.

00:21:16.940 Are red Tory values a thing of the past?

00:21:20.360 Now, this was by John Gushu from CBC News, whose last name I probably mispronounced.

00:21:26.480 But I don't want to repeat the numismatics thing and, you know, anger people by just trying

00:21:30.360 to say myriad pronunciations of it.

00:21:33.700 The story itself, the article itself, I didn't find terrible.

00:21:36.680 I guess I questioned why John Crosby's death had to become about a political reckoning

00:21:41.820 in the Conservative movement.

00:21:43.840 My issue is with the headline.

00:21:45.540 And I'll give you a glimpse behind the curtain of the media here.

00:21:49.700 Reporters, columnists rarely, in fact, almost never write the headlines.

00:21:54.300 That's always done by an editor.

00:21:55.800 And it's, believe me, it's infuriating as a writer when I have a column that gets butchered

00:22:00.600 by the headline, which is the only thing some people read.

00:22:03.520 And then they're yelling at me for something I didn't even write that doesn't necessarily

00:22:08.320 reflect the makeup of the story.

00:22:11.000 But besides the point, CBC editorial staff, in some form, published this headline, John

00:22:16.680 Crosby is dead and gone.

00:22:18.400 Are red Tory values a thing of the past?

00:22:20.540 And this was on January 18th.

00:22:23.620 Now, the photo accompanying the story was the photo of his ashes being walked through the

00:22:30.520 Anglican Church.

00:22:31.860 And this was, you know, just a week after he died.

00:22:36.080 And, you know, dead and gone is just such a very callous way of describing a man who accomplished

00:22:41.420 a lot more than just simply being a standard bearer for red Tories.

00:22:46.260 And I hate the politicization of everything.

00:22:48.780 I hate the politicization of people's death.

00:22:51.220 I hate all of this.

00:22:52.240 And this is why John McCain's passing in the US was so infuriating the way the media responded

00:22:58.500 to it because they were making it about this fight with Trump.

00:23:03.620 And in some cases, John McCain's family, I realized by making certain decisions about

00:23:08.680 his funeral, emboldened that.

00:23:11.420 But it was just such a problem for me to see this guy's passing distilled to a feud when

00:23:18.300 he had such a life of service.

00:23:21.200 And John Crosby, same thing.

00:23:22.660 Here's a guy that did so much.

00:23:23.860 And to CBC, his death is just about, oh, why can't all conservatives be like John Crosby

00:23:28.920 now?

00:23:29.300 And then complaining about, you know, the state of the conservative movement in Canada.

00:23:34.400 I've had a few people email me already this Globe and Mail story about Bill Blair's comments

00:23:40.240 on guns.

00:23:41.460 And I don't want to spend too much time on it because it's not really new information in

00:23:46.620 the grand sense of things.

00:23:48.120 But I think it does explain a little bit about how the government is planning to go after

00:23:53.120 your guns.

00:23:53.720 Now, if you've watched videos I've done for True North, you know I'm a gun owner.

00:23:57.580 You know I'm an AR-15 owner.

00:23:59.980 And I will defend the AR-15 to anyone at any point because it's one of the most misunderstood

00:24:05.640 fixtures of gun ownership when people in the media, and even some people who are generally

00:24:11.620 sympathetic to gun owners, start talking about the AR-15 as being this, you know, Gatling

00:24:17.560 gun almost, when in fact it's very much the same gun as several non-restricted firearms

00:24:23.700 in Canada that no one has issues with.

00:24:26.480 But Bill Blair has targeted, and the liberals have targeted, military-style assault weapons,

00:24:33.080 and I'm putting giant air quotes around that if you're listening to the podcast version,

00:24:37.700 military-style assault weapons which have not yet been defined.

00:24:42.200 And the funny thing is, the reason Bill Blair has not defined these things is because he

00:24:48.300 says he doesn't want people to go out and buy them now.

00:24:51.940 So what gun owners are doing now is buying anything they think might be banned.

00:24:55.520 That's why I got my AR-15 a few months ago.

00:24:59.280 And the Mini-14, which is a hunting rifle, is another one that the government has indicated

00:25:04.140 with a wink-wink might in fact be banned.

00:25:06.380 But we do know now that they're going to do it in a multi-step process.

00:25:10.100 The first step will be prohibiting the sale of these guns, which the Globe and Mail unquestioningly

00:25:16.320 refers to as assault weapons, which frustrates me to no end because that's not what they

00:25:20.900 are.

00:25:21.700 Assault weapons, already illegal in Canada.

00:25:24.340 And then the other dimension will be after the prohibition of sale, forcing a buyback, which

00:25:30.400 means earmarking at the current step anyway, 250 million, but it'll probably be more, to

00:25:36.260 buy back the guns like mine that are already owned by people.

00:25:40.100 Now, the funny thing is, it would be great to know how much they're offering because

00:25:43.840 I could probably make a fortune if I just bought, you know, a crate load of these things

00:25:47.800 now if the government was buying back at above market price.

00:25:51.360 But you know what?

00:25:53.900 Getting into business with the government will never do well.

00:25:56.360 I think Candace said the other day, it's a lose-lose situation doing business with the

00:26:00.580 government.

00:26:01.320 But Blair did say the government wants to get good value.

00:26:05.000 Another air quote moment there for the purchase of firearms that were legally bought.

00:26:09.120 And this quote just is infuriating.

00:26:12.580 We are very mindful we are dealing with law-abiding Canadians, and I want to make sure they are

00:26:18.060 treated fairly and respectfully.

00:26:20.280 Then why take the guns?

00:26:23.040 If you're conceding that these people from whom you are taking the guns, these people you

00:26:28.440 are disarming, are not the problem.

00:26:31.020 That these people are causing no problems.

00:26:34.100 So when Bill Blair says he wants to make sure that people are treated fairly and respectfully

00:26:39.860 and adds, I have nothing but respect for those who have been adhering to those regulations,

00:26:45.460 why are you going after them?

00:26:47.540 Why do you need their guns?

00:26:50.240 And this whole thing is an absolute sham to give the illusion of security to a country that

00:26:57.920 does not have a gun crime problem, to target firearms that are not the way they're being

00:27:03.020 described, and more importantly, to demand people who Bill Blair concedes are following

00:27:08.620 the law to lay down their arms, hand them back to the government, just because the government

00:27:13.480 says, we've decided to take up this pretend fight to protect Canadians. 0.99

00:27:19.480 Unreal, undemocratic, and absolutely asinine. 0.93

00:27:24.500 This is what Bill Blair is doing here.

00:27:26.460 So prohibit first, then buy back, and then eventually go after the illegal guns.

00:27:33.720 And this is, my goodness, the worst part of this is that there is an element of what the

00:27:38.160 liberals are going to be doing here about restricting the availability of illegal guns

00:27:42.960 on the street.

00:27:44.300 But it's like an also, an also we're going to do this moment.

00:27:48.140 The Globe and Mail story says, Blair also promised new legislation to further restrict the

00:27:52.660 availability of illegal handguns on Canadian streets.

00:27:56.000 He also said there will be tougher penalties for those who smuggle handguns into Canada,

00:28:00.480 as well as for those who take handguns from a legal source and divert them into the hands

00:28:05.620 of the criminals.

00:28:06.820 So the aspect of this legislation that actually could be positive going after crime guns and

00:28:13.260 criminals is an afterthought, because the government wants to stand over a giant warehouse full

00:28:19.780 of legally owned AR-15s and other guns and say, mission accomplished, Canada is safer.

00:28:25.260 It will be a lie.

00:28:27.100 Back in a moment with more of The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:28:31.000 You're tuned in to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:28:35.480 Hey, welcome back to the program.

00:28:37.940 It's getting a little bit worked up talking about all the gun stuff.

00:28:40.280 So we'll simmer down a little bit until next episode.

00:28:43.120 No guarantees what will happen then.

00:28:44.600 And I actually want to talk about this Twitter thread that I saw the other day that I thought

00:28:50.520 was really interesting.

00:28:51.700 And it's not newsy, but I think there's a lot to learn from this.

00:28:55.480 And it deals with this fundamental question of whether post-secondary education is for

00:29:00.940 everyone.

00:29:01.660 And I think most people listening, certainly to this show, would say, no, it's not.

00:29:06.380 But we still have this societal problem where schools, secondary schools, are pushing people

00:29:12.660 into that narrative.

00:29:14.040 And more importantly, post-secondary institutions themselves are really marketing themselves

00:29:19.580 as being the places for everyone.

00:29:22.300 And it can be a very costly endeavor.

00:29:24.600 And more importantly, it can take people away from career paths that are perfectly legitimate

00:29:28.960 and actually should be encouraged.

00:29:31.220 And the Twitter thread was from Jordan Goldstein, a sport humanities professor from Laurier.

00:29:37.120 And I'll let him explain a little bit about this story.

00:29:39.640 But I thought it was a very encouraging and I'll even say inspiring story.

00:29:43.840 Professor Jordan Goldstein joins me on the line now.

00:29:46.760 We couldn't get the video working, but he joins me by audio form.

00:29:50.380 Jordan, good to talk to you.

00:29:51.320 Thanks very much for coming on, Professor.

00:29:53.220 Yeah, thank you so much for extending the invitation and the opportunity, Andrew.

00:29:56.800 It's great to talk.

00:29:57.680 You posted something on Twitter that I found to be really insightful.

00:30:02.180 I mean, you always do.

00:30:03.160 I would encourage you to give Jordan a follow there, jb__goldstein.

00:30:06.740 But in particular, this and part of it, because there was, I think, just some innate wisdom

00:30:11.640 in the story you told, but also you as a professor telling it.

00:30:16.680 And I was wondering if you could bring my listeners up to speed on this conversation

00:30:20.840 you had with a student.

00:30:23.220 Yeah, absolutely.

00:30:23.960 So a student that I taught, I believe it was last year, emailed me looking for some advice

00:30:31.000 and looking for a recommendation on sort of where they should go next in their university

00:30:36.540 career.

00:30:37.320 And they were reaching a pivot point or a turning point in their career.

00:30:42.220 They had been in, this student had been enrolled in a particular program for two years, didn't

00:30:48.820 see the merit, didn't see the value, and was looking to switch and was looking for some

00:30:54.640 new direction.

00:30:56.760 And they came to my office just to get some advice and to look to see what other options

00:31:03.220 there were in terms of prolonging their university career.

00:31:07.100 And I simply asked them, you know, what do you see yourself doing here?

00:31:12.360 What is your academic passion?

00:31:14.300 Like, what do you really want to learn?

00:31:16.460 And the student really couldn't come up with that much of an answer and started relating

00:31:21.420 that they had a lot of passions that laid outside of the university.

00:31:26.620 And that's where this particular student's interest lied.

00:31:30.680 And I simply told them, you know, well, maybe university is not the place for you.

00:31:35.480 Maybe this is a time for you to cut and run because this particular student was in a pretty

00:31:41.720 good financial situation and had good prospects for a job outside of the academy.

00:31:48.220 And this is something that student didn't encounter from anybody else within the university

00:31:53.600 system.

00:31:54.420 And they greatly respected my opinion and my sort of cutting to the straight truth of the

00:32:02.080 matter that not everybody needs to be at a university or indeed even belongs at a university.

00:32:09.120 And there's no shame or guilt or stigma that should be attached to somebody, you know,

00:32:15.760 who's come through and maybe has found out that this isn't the place for them.

00:32:20.820 And I think that's such an important point because on one side of the spectrum, you do have

00:32:25.380 people that are just completely anti-universities.

00:32:28.600 And I think there's there's there are some no offense to you.

00:32:31.100 There are some good reasons to be anti-universities these days.

00:32:33.800 Absolutely.

00:32:34.120 But then you also have people that I think are more ingrained in the post or in the secondary

00:32:39.860 education world and the post-secondary education world, which is this idea that university is

00:32:45.400 for everyone.

00:32:46.180 And and I saw this when I was in high school.

00:32:48.320 I went to a school that was very focused on its performance.

00:32:54.180 And it was a pretty good school as far as academic performance for students.

00:32:58.960 And I remember in grade nine, there was a speech that the principal gave, which was that

00:33:04.860 90 percent of you are going to go to university when you get out of here.

00:33:09.700 Five percent of you are going to go to college and five percent of you are going to take a

00:33:14.440 year to figure it out.

00:33:15.360 And basically you're going to go to university anyway.

00:33:17.500 And that school was pushing everyone, regardless of aptitudes, regardless of interest towards

00:33:24.340 university.

00:33:25.240 And when I talk to youth now, it seems like that's expanded even more where we're thrusting

00:33:32.100 everyone we can think of, anyone who can afford it, anyone who can get accepted into this

00:33:36.940 world that just isn't for everyone and doesn't seem to be designed to be a world for everyone.

00:33:43.920 No, that's absolutely true.

00:33:45.780 And the way that it's been designed in the past is to sort of cater to those with a particular

00:33:52.720 intellectual aptitude and curiosity.

00:33:56.500 And I never understood the thought process behind forcing people who didn't enjoy their

00:34:02.740 time in elementary school or secondary school, who don't enjoy a really academic environment,

00:34:10.500 that magically that they would find their way in a university setting, which is just an even

00:34:15.760 more intense and pressurized situation when you include cost, when you include deferring

00:34:23.520 important years where you could be out gaining work experience or engaged in other life experiences

00:34:30.220 that could be just as enriching and rewarding and valuable than the first few years of an

00:34:36.780 undergraduate education at a university. And I guess that's just been exacerbated over time.

00:34:43.720 And I certainly remember hearing those same things in my post-secondary education that you just

00:34:49.660 related as well.

00:34:50.660 And certainly there is a cliché that is true to some extent of people with arts and humanities or social sciences,

00:34:58.820 undergraduate degrees who are making less than those who went in to be welders or millwrights or other things like that.

00:35:04.800 And similarly, I don't think that the trades are for everyone.

00:35:07.260 I think the greater question that we should be asking is, what do you want?

00:35:12.620 And if the answer to that question is, I don't know yet, I feel that that often lends itself in the eyes of school guidance counselors to,

00:35:21.860 OK, we'll go to university and then figure it out while you're there.

00:35:25.500 Yeah. And that's an expensive lesson for kids to have to learn.

00:35:29.200 And especially, you know, if you've gone into student debt to, you know, find yourself, it doesn't make much of a it's not a very good economic calculation when you could maybe spend a year working, maybe go abroad, travel, find yourself out there.

00:35:44.920 But don't put yourself in a financial hole and then realize afterwards, maybe university is the right place for me and come with a more mature, serious attitude instead of, well,

00:35:56.080 I'm just sort of here to find myself. So I don't necessarily have to apply all of my energy into school and I should focus more on socializing or the other the many other activities that schools now provide that are non-academic for students.

00:36:13.820 Let me ask you, then, if we need to have a discussion within the academy and outside of it about the role of universities,

00:36:22.160 because I think there are some people that take a very means to an end view of it where they want to be a lawyer or a doctor or an engineer and the way to get that degree is to go through this program.

00:36:32.860 There are a lot of people that get a degree because they want it to make them marketable to employers.

00:36:39.300 And there are employers that are, for whatever reason, saying no matter what it is, you need to have a degree in something.

00:36:46.180 Do you think that these two are feeding off of each other in some way?

00:36:49.660 Yes, I do. I think the over-credentialization has been very, I think it's very bad for the university because it waters down and it sort of cheapens what a degree signals.

00:37:05.500 And now it's sort of just a signal that I can show up and I can pass, so I can do something.

00:37:11.660 But in my estimation, four years of work experience is actually a better signal than a bachelor's degree in a general science or a general arts because of the lowering of standards at a university,

00:37:26.860 because of having to accept every student and having to accommodate to those who don't find a passion or have a particular aptitude for academic materials,

00:37:38.760 which, again, is not a slight and it's not meant to disparage those who aren't comfortable or may not excel at a university setting.

00:37:47.020 Everybody has different strengths and weaknesses and it's the variability of human talent that allows us to have such a productive society and productive economy because we do have many different people with different skills.

00:38:03.380 And the one thing that I've really noticed, and I'll speak just to my experience in Ontario, where we don't have a variety of post-secondary institutions and whatever variety we did have has been forced into a conformity.

00:38:19.420 And we can just look at my employer or my university, Wilfrid Laurier University, which used to be an excellent undergraduate focused university, which meant that they didn't have an expanded graduate program and they really did tailor towards a specific demographic.

00:38:38.060 But now they've positioned away from that specialty and tried to become more like all of the other universities in Ontario, comprehensive research universities with graduate programs and they're expanding out into Milton to try to get into programs like engineering, for example.

00:38:57.540 We don't have an engineering school, but there's a school down the road, Waterloo University, which is internationally acclaimed for its engineering.

00:39:05.780 And it doesn't make any sense to try to make every single university in this province exactly the same as every other university.

00:39:13.660 And I think that's where some of the problem lies with post-secondary education is we don't have we don't have different options for students.

00:39:22.700 We have colleges and we have universities, but all the colleges are basically the same and all the universities now are basically the same.

00:39:31.600 So students don't have very many places to go.

00:39:36.160 And so you you force students who may have fit in one type of a university.

00:39:41.460 And I don't know exactly what types of post-secondary schools we could have.

00:39:46.040 That's something I would I would prefer to let the market decide and to let consumers demand and for entrepreneurs to provide for them.

00:39:53.020 But we simply just don't have that option in this province where it seems like we can only have one type.

00:39:58.440 Every university has to be the same. And I think this really discourages students and it limits the options that are available to them so that we may have a student.

00:40:08.360 Right. Who could have excelled in a maybe a more practical kind of a of a university setting.

00:40:14.920 The student that came into my office, for example, but because now all the universities in Ontario are research comprehensive universities, they don't focus on the undergraduates as much.

00:40:25.980 And they try to compete with with all the other universities for research dollars, for grants and for things that don't necessarily benefit the undergrads.

00:40:36.860 And I think that's to their detriment.

00:40:38.720 So if you are looking at the paths in universities outside of medical school, law school, outside of certification or credential based programs, what is the role of an undergraduate university education in your view?

00:40:55.700 I think it's to provide a wide range of practical skills, but not to train for a particular career.

00:41:03.720 Like, I don't think you want universities to be turned into vocational institutions.

00:41:09.900 And I think when you tell everybody that they have to go to university and the reason they have to go to university is because they'll be able to get a better job.

00:41:17.260 That's exactly what you've done. And certainly some programs do lend themselves to practical employment.

00:41:22.300 Some of the ones that you mentioned, but a general humanities, any of the humanities or social sciences.

00:41:29.460 And I've got my degrees in history, so I can sort of speak to that.

00:41:34.620 I don't think you want to tailor those to careers or to professions or even to the idea that this is something that can aid you to get a better job.

00:41:43.820 You want those programs to be centered on learning and education and investing in academic matters.

00:41:53.740 And so the humanities should be able to provide you with skills in writing, with skills in oral communication, with critical thinking skills.

00:42:04.840 And by that, I mean the ability to look at a situation from multiple viewpoints, weigh the pros and the cons of each viewpoint and come to a sort of a synthesized conclusion about where you stand on that position based on the best evidence from multiple perspectives.

00:42:21.540 And people who can do that can find employment in a whole host and range of professions, they can be entrepreneurs, they can be involved in corporate work, they can even mesh those skills with more technical, practical skills and mechanical processes.

00:42:43.180 It's really limitless, and companies and people used to clamor for the skills that a humanities education could provide.

00:42:54.140 But there's been certainly a transition in what the humanities offers, both in terms of its ideological roots, but also in terms of trying to turn these non-vocational, pardon me, these non-vocational disciplines into something that can provide particular career development opportunities for people.

00:43:17.700 And I think the mixed signaling that students receive further confuses them and further frustrates them with the system when they're being told that these programs will provide them access to better jobs.

00:43:31.400 And so they take on debt, and so they take on debt, and then when they get out into the marketplace, they realize that employers don't want the particular skills that they've been given, or in some cases indoctrinated into.

00:43:43.800 And now they're on the hook for tens of thousands of dollars of debt, and they don't have very good employment prospects.

00:43:51.400 So this really, it really does seem as if students are being placed at a disadvantage from multiple positions from the modern university, at least from my vantage point.

00:44:02.540 And there was a great piece in Spiked that I think you tweeted out as well.

00:44:06.040 The best place to learn about responsibility, self-respect, and duty, and about standing on your own two feet is in the workplace.

00:44:13.220 And you had said that you had, you learned more about the real world in your job at 15 as a dishwasher than school taught you at that time.

00:44:22.080 Oh, yeah, I mean, absolutely.

00:44:25.500 And, you know, I've been working continuously ever since in a whole range and host of odd jobs.

00:44:31.000 And I worked part-time many hours in university as well to help provide for myself.

00:44:37.720 And the price of education, I think, is really, and why that's gone up, I mean, there's many different theories.

00:44:46.400 I would point to government interference, certainly in limiting the availability of new universities.

00:44:54.880 When was the last, again, we'll just look at Ontario, where it's a highly regulated industry.

00:44:59.420 When was the last time Ontario got a new university?

00:45:02.020 You know, I think it was 50 years ago.

00:45:04.720 Yeah, and in Canada, we don't have that industry of private colleges and universities like you have to somewhat of a greater extent in the U.S.

00:45:13.980 Yes, and certainly there are pitfalls and dangers with a for-profit model, as you've seen with some schools in the United States.

00:45:20.700 But that doesn't mean that there can also be beneficial and positive institutions that operate using that model as well.

00:45:27.800 And I think that the limiting, we could just look at that as a way in which competition has been essentially eliminated for the universities in Canada, which gives them more of a captive consumer base, which means they can raise their prices in one sense.

00:45:45.860 But also things like guaranteed loans for students help to drive up the price of tuition.

00:45:49.820 And you see that really intensified in the United States.

00:45:52.720 And we don't necessarily have quite that problem in Canada, although it is starting to creep up in terms of the increased cost of tuition and just a year's worth of resources at a university.

00:46:07.280 And in that case, you used to be, you used to hear all the time of people working their way, you know, through university.

00:46:14.880 So on one hand, you would be getting work experience and you would have your feet, you know, planted in the real world.

00:46:20.460 But you'd also be able to invest yourself in the more esoteric and academic matters of the university.

00:46:26.660 And now it seems as if students are being told they have to choose one or the other.

00:46:31.440 And if you choose work, well, that means you're probably going to end up worse off in life is the message that you're being told.

00:46:36.520 So you better go on to university.

00:46:38.780 You better not divide your time.

00:46:44.860 Like you want to throw yourself in and give everything that a university or experience everything that a university has to offer.

00:46:52.280 And a lot of it is being focused on things outside of the classroom.

00:46:55.340 If you just look at the way administrations advertise universities, the things that they point to.

00:47:01.980 Again, for undergrads, they're being sold on all of these different things that they can experience.

00:47:07.880 But at the same time, administrations are doing everything they can to minimize the effectiveness of undergraduate education by focusing all their attention on acquiring research grants, bringing in faculty who care more about research than teaching, eliminating full time faculty instead of part time contractual and adjunct faculty.

00:47:31.800 You're seeing universities move away from providing solid tenured professors who will teach undergraduates and especially first and second years.

00:47:43.360 And so in sometimes the most important courses, you know, those first and second year courses, students are coming in and being taught by people without secure jobs.

00:47:52.920 And I'm not somebody who thinks that you are owed a secure job, but it's just sort of a it's very difficult as somebody who works from contract to contract myself.

00:48:01.680 It's very difficult to place roots down in an institution and to feel loyal and to want to really work to the best of your ability to extend ties into the community and develop solid relationships that you can then utilize in the classroom.

00:48:17.640 And instead, adjuncts are worried about how am I going to get my next contract and maybe they're working at two to three institutions.

00:48:25.280 So they're splitting their time and the students, right, these vulnerable first and second year students, those who maybe they don't think they should be there in the first place.

00:48:35.520 They're not being taught by people with the right expertise, acumen or even the stability to be able to transition and steer them through the very difficult first and second years of university.

00:48:48.920 And as somebody who does teach first and second years and I actually I relish that opportunity because I know that these these students need a little bit of extra transition, I find that the high schools are not preparing them for the rigors and the demands that are necessary.

00:49:08.100 And so there is a little bit of tactful coaching that some of the students really need in order to help them.

00:49:16.660 And I don't think it's I try not to to place the blame so much on the individual students, so much on the the structures and systems and incentives that they've been that they've been especially.

00:49:29.900 Yeah, they've been sold a bill of goods on this.

00:49:32.040 I really do. And I wait until the students show me that they don't deserve that sort of benefit of the doubt because that's a life lesson you don't get in university either.

00:49:42.700 Yeah. Once you get here, you're supposed to be an adult. And if you know and I give you a little bit of a grace period and you don't take advantage and you start to display disrespectful behaviors or contemptuous behaviors or simply just unserious behaviors when it comes to the gravity of the work that you should be doing, you know, you lose that benefit of the doubt as a student.

00:50:04.200 And but at the same time, I want to be cognizant that these students, I think, are being set up in a lot of cases for failure by the system, both post-secondary and the secondary and elementary schools.

00:50:17.320 And so I try I try to try to try to balance those competing incentives and those competing circumstances when it comes to the the group versus the individual, for sure.

00:50:28.800 It's it's it's tough, but I tend to I tend to sympathize more of the students and come down harder on the adults who have created the situation for sure.

00:50:37.940 Well, fascinating dialogue. And I think for everyone's sake, it's good that this student went to you for counsel instead of some of your colleagues, perhaps.

00:50:45.560 Professor Jordan Goldstein, Sport Humanities Prof. You can follow him on Twitter at JB underscore underscore Goldstein.

00:50:52.920 Jordan, thanks for coming on. Good to talk to you again.

00:50:55.220 Yeah, great. It's always good to reconnect. And thanks a lot, Andrew. And good luck on the launching of your new podcast.

00:51:00.820 I'm sure Canadians and those who are interested in the things you talk about are going to be really are going to really enjoy what you bring to the table.

00:51:08.140 Well, you've earned yourself an invite back for that. Thanks a lot, Jordan.

00:51:11.340 All right. Thanks so much. Have a great day, Andrew.

00:51:13.120 Thanks. We'll be right back with more of The Andrew Lawton Show up next.

00:51:17.680 You're tuned into The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:51:21.500 That was Sport Humanities Professor Jordan Goldstein from Laurier University, the hotbed of the free speech fight in Canada, a fight on which he is very much on the right side.

00:51:32.020 So my thanks to Jordan for coming on the show. My thanks to all of you for tuning into the show.

00:51:36.900 We'll be back in a couple of days with more of The Andrew Lawton Show on True North.

00:51:41.220 Thank you. God bless. And good day, Canada.

00:51:43.780 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:51:45.820 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

00:51:51.060 We'll be right back in a couple of days with more of The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:51:53.980 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show up next.

00:51:57.900 We'll be right back.

00:51:58.360 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:51:59.660 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:52:02.040 We'll be right back.

00:52:02.440 Bye-bye.

00:52:05.620 Catch you next week.

Juno News - January 21, 2020

Doughnutgate, Shunning Socons, Blaming Gun Owners, and Why University Isn't For Everyone

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