Juno News - Dragon’s Den Star Brett Wilson SLAMS former co-star over Alberta independence comments

00:00:00.000 Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm and this is The Candice Malcolm Show. We have a great episode for you

00:00:05.640 today. And before we jump into it, I want to say a quick congratulations to my friend and

00:00:10.160 former colleague, Andrew Lawton. Andrew was sworn in as a Member of Parliament yesterday. So here

00:00:15.880 is what that looked like. He writes this on X. He says, it was an honour of a lifetime to be

00:00:19.780 formally sworn in as a Member of Parliament for Elgin, St. Thomas, London South this morning.

00:00:24.560 It's the people of my writing who sent me here and it's them I am committed to serving. So

00:00:29.780 Andrew was a long-time journalist with me at True North and we are very proud of him. There

00:00:35.100 you can see pictures of him getting his fortnight with his beautiful wife, Jen, as well. So

00:00:39.140 congratulations, Andrew. We're really looking forward to seeing what you're going to do

00:00:42.660 in Ottawa. Give them hell, man, and hold them accountable. Okay, now to get to the topic of 0.97

00:00:48.420 the show today, I'm very pleased to be joined by one of my favourite guests here on The Candice Malcolm

00:00:51.420 Show, talking about Brett Wilson. Brett is an investment banker, entrepreneur, and philanthropist.

00:00:55.740 You know him best from his role on CBC's The Dragon Dunn. He also hosted Risky Business

00:01:00.800 on Slice. Brett, thank you for joining us. Welcome to the show.

00:01:03.560 Brett Wilson- Always a pleasure.

00:01:04.920 Okay. I want to talk. It's been a while since I've had you on. I guess we had you on right

00:01:08.820 at the end of the election here. So I guess first question for you is, what did you make

00:01:13.100 of the election? What did you think? Were you surprised? Were you happy? Tell us what your

00:01:17.740 thoughts are.

00:01:18.740 Well, for sure I was surprised, and second, I was disappointed. I mean, I'm a fan of Mark

00:01:25.140 Carney the person, but the party he's with is the same party that supported Trudeau mucking up

00:01:33.180 our country for a decade. And so I think my concern is that people thought that Mark Carney

00:01:39.180 represents a different party. No, he represents the same party. Now, is he speaking a different

00:01:45.760 tune? I mean, Pierre Paulette has, with a smile, said, he's using my campaign and winning votes.

00:01:53.860 And so I think that's a big part of what Mark did was say to the world, I will move the world

00:01:59.640 forward. I had the privilege, and I may have shared this with you once before, I had the

00:02:03.720 privilege of having lunch with Mark in my own offices about a week before he became leader

00:02:09.260 of the Liberal Party. And we sat down to talk about three things, and I had even prepared

00:02:14.380 slide decks. So it was a very formal pitch, but he was there for an hour. We ate burgers

00:02:19.300 and chips and slammed through it very quickly. But we talked about politics, getting rid of

00:02:25.300 Bill C-69, Bill C-48. We talked about the need for improving how electricity is managed

00:02:31.460 in Canada. And we also talked about pipelines and the oil and gas industry and Alberta's dream

00:02:37.040 goal, plan, vision of doubling its production over the next decade or two. So we had a great

00:02:42.140 conversation. But the other thing I said to Mark, when I laid these things out, is I said,

00:02:46.600 this is the same pitch I would give to Pierre Paulette. And if Jagmeet Singh would talk to me,

00:02:52.180 I'd tell him the same thing. And I'd have the same conversation with Daniel Smith or Scott Moe or

00:02:56.840 Wob Canoe, all people I know. And I said, so I was basically pitching what's right for Canada,

00:03:03.020 not the politics of what's right for Canada, but the facts, the reality.

00:03:07.200 And how was that received? I mean, I've heard that people like Daniel Smith, for instance,

00:03:12.160 said that when he was in Alberta, he said one thing, when he's out in Quebec, he says something

00:03:15.560 different, that he had committed to pipelines earlier in the campaign and since walked back

00:03:20.840 on them. So I'm just curious, how was the reception of your pitch to Mark Carney and did he seem

00:03:25.700 receptive?

00:03:27.200 Very receptive. But of course, that's a marketing moment. He was crystal clear. He said, Brett,

00:03:32.020 I can get a pipeline through Quebec. I'm absolutely confident. And we'll talk about Quebec in a moment,

00:03:37.260 but he was, he was, he was very receptive. The only place we disagreed was when I said to him that

00:03:43.200 we shouldn't be calling it coast to coast to coast. It should be coast to coast to border because we

00:03:49.480 have a border and the border is the most important part of all our relationships. And he kind of laughed

00:03:53.880 and said, I'm going to stick with coast to coast to coast. But that was the only place where we had,

00:03:57.920 we agreed that we disagreed. Everything else, he was accommodating, interested, curious. And I can

00:04:04.380 tell you, I'm still in touch with him. And if he walks the talk, we're going to make some progress

00:04:12.980 here. I'm really curious. I'm, I'm apprehensive because when you look at the, the membership of

00:04:19.080 his, uh, his, uh, cabinet, he'll just give up and just use the one word give up. What the hell was he

00:04:27.500 thinking? Letting Gibo step back up. But when I challenged him on Gibo, he said, Brett, please

00:04:33.320 listen to Hodgson. Okay. In other words, he politely, he didn't say, don't listen to Gibo,

00:04:40.020 but he focused on redirect, stay with Hodgson. That's where the noise, whatever Hodgson's noise is.

00:04:46.400 Hodgson's here in Calgary this week, and I'm working very hard to bring him back for a larger group

00:04:50.940 meeting, uh, at the end of June. And I want him sitting with truly just the, the iconic business

00:04:56.860 leaders of pipelines, midstream oil and gas, electricity, mining, uh, uranium. I got the guys

00:05:04.780 out of Saskatoon keen to come. I mean, there's so much to talk about at a very high level and Hodgson's

00:05:10.920 keen. So we'll see what we'll see whether or not we can actually deliver on a meeting. Then we have

00:05:16.020 to figure out if we can deliver on results. Well, it's interesting because I think a lot of people

00:05:20.740 trusted that Mark Carney was changed, that he did represent some kind of change that they were

00:05:24.560 departing from the sort of like woke, more extreme liberal party that Justin Trudeau had built.

00:05:29.740 And that Mark Carney was, you know, more pro-business, uh, pro-growth. He understood the

00:05:33.800 economy and that he, he, he was at least, you know, willing to change course, uh, clearly by picking

00:05:39.280 up some of Pierre Polyev's, uh, policies, he, he signaled that. Um, and then yet when we saw that

00:05:44.480 cabinet last week, I mean, it's not just Stéphane Guilbault. It's also Chrystia Freeland and

00:05:48.560 Melanie Jolie and, uh, Francois Champagne, uh, Philippe Champagne. Like it's the same people,

00:05:54.700 it's the exact same cast of characters that got us into this mess. So it's, it's difficult,

00:05:58.840 I think for Canadians to draw that separation. I think a lot of them feel a little duped and

00:06:03.340 I think others feel duped by this sort of reversal that we've seen from Mark Carney. So recall that

00:06:08.420 during the campaign, Mark Carney told us over and over again that the relationship with the United

00:06:13.920 States as we know it is over. He, he used those terms. He, he played up the fact that Canada is

00:06:19.440 in the midst of a crisis, like, uh, you know, an existential crisis when it comes to our trading

00:06:24.100 relationship with the United States. And then we saw, we saw a different Mark Carney, uh, when he

00:06:29.020 was interacting with President Trump in the Oval Office. Now you could just say that's diplomacy.

00:06:34.100 I want to play this clip for you though, Brett. This is yesterday. Um, Mark Carney was being questioned

00:06:39.040 by Mackenzie Gray, give him credit with the global news. Um, a very solid line of questioning

00:06:43.880 here saying that, look, this is what you said before. You said the relationship is over.

00:06:48.920 You said that, that the trade relationships could be different. And yet, uh, here you are

00:06:52.820 today looking to form a deeper integration. Uh, the, the latest announcement was that Mark

00:06:57.340 Carney wants to work with President Trump in building a so-called golden dome, sort of like

00:07:01.560 the iron dome, a North American missile defense system. And so here is Mark Carney, um, being

00:07:06.880 questions. And I, from my perspective, he just fails to give any kind of a coherent answer.

00:07:10.660 Let's play that clip.

00:07:11.660 During the election, you've heard Republicans saying that the old relationship that Canada

00:07:14.900 has with the U.S. is over. You said that Donald Trump is trying to break us so he can own

00:07:17.980 us. But now just a couple of weeks after the election, there's conversations at least

00:07:21.240 about further integrating the Canadian military with the U.S. about the golden dome.

00:07:24.780 What do you say to Canadians who voted for you based on your elbows and mentality with the

00:07:28.500 Americans? Well, first, um, one of the reasons why we're having, uh, more constructive,

00:07:33.460 uh, discussions with the Americans is, uh, because, um, we are demonstrating our ability

00:07:38.980 that we have choices. We have choices, uh, economically, we have choices, uh, with respect

00:07:43.440 to, uh, our defense. We are in a position now where we cooperate when necessary, but

00:07:49.280 not necessarily cooperate.

00:07:50.480 It just seems like a bit of a word salad there. What do you think, Brett?

00:07:54.220 He's bumping around, but let's go back to the big picture. I happen to love and admire

00:07:59.760 what Donald Trump is trying to do. I don't love, admire, or respect how he's doing it,

00:08:07.020 but the idea of trying to minimize global wars, optimize his border, minimize fentanyl

00:08:12.380 inbound, get rid of bad people. I mean, there's so many things that he wants to do well, and

00:08:17.660 he's got a very different, um, history, and that's what gives the world some challenges

00:08:22.280 in terms of here's a business negotiator, not a political negotiator. Now, what's interesting

00:08:27.800 is Carney comes out of the business world. And so I think he's respectful of what Trump

00:08:33.740 does when Trump will make a statement and then see how people respond. And then a day

00:08:38.620 later change the statement and go, yeah, but he doesn't feel Trump isn't accountable for

00:08:44.040 changing his mind. And so that's the only place I would dance is to say, I'd rather judge

00:08:48.960 Carney by results, which is, are we going to get some projects underway? Daniel Smith's been

00:08:54.060 absolutely adamant as has the industry that a pipeline across West, Western Canada and,

00:09:00.000 and central to Northern BC into, uh, the Kitimat Prince Rupert regions makes sense. So are we

00:09:06.620 going to get an accelerated approval on a pipeline that was once almost the pipeline route, everything

00:09:12.640 was approved. So what can we do? And that goes back to results. And, uh, cause all there's so much

00:09:17.380 talk, not as concerned of the talk as I am call it the results. And that's, he's, we're only a month

00:09:24.060 into it now. Let's see what the next two or three months holds.

00:09:26.720 That's true. I want to ask you though, one of the things that we learned last week was that we

00:09:30.940 won't get a budget, uh, that Carney and his new finance minister say that they just don't have

00:09:34.980 time. So we're going to have to wait to the fall. Wondering what your thoughts are on that?

00:09:38.320 Well, let's remember a budget is about being accountable. In other words, here's a forecast

00:09:43.140 for what we're going to spend and where the revenue is going to come from. But let's be clear,

00:09:47.860 they're still spending, they're still generating revenue. So everything's happening, whether you

00:09:52.080 have a budget or not, they're just doing stuff. And that's why they're, they're basically running

00:09:56.240 the country in the absence of a budget, but built on where they were before. And that's one of the

00:10:02.340 dangerous parts, which is, you know, Freeland and Trudeau and their concern for budget balance.

00:10:07.960 We still remember Trudeau saying, oh, the budget will balance itself. One of the stupidest 1.00

00:10:12.700 comments ever by a political leader of any party, the budget will balance itself. So I think the, 1.00

00:10:18.780 I think the party's been a bit disrespectful of the budget process in terms of accountability

00:10:23.540 to, uh, to Canada, but they're still, they're still running the cost. They're still generating

00:10:28.160 revenue. What they've also said now is that they will do a budget in the fall. The earlier,

00:10:33.600 when I first heard them say, skip the budget, it was kind of like, we'll do one for next year,

00:10:38.020 but we'll just keep working off of old information for this year. But they have said,

00:10:42.240 they'll bring out one in the fall. So again, what's results will be everything.

00:10:46.980 Interesting. I, you know, one of the things about Justin Trudeau's comment, when he said it,

00:10:50.200 right, the idea was that he said, well, look, we're going to grow the economy. The economy is

00:10:53.320 going to grow. Taxation will go up. Well, the budget will balance itself. To hear that from

00:10:57.720 somebody who never balanced the budget, who was prime minister for nine years and never even came

00:11:01.040 close to balancing, um, the budget. It's interesting that, yeah, that one line that he said kind of stuck

00:11:06.600 with him because he just never got it done. I want to switch gears. You did mention Danielle

00:11:11.200 Smith. And one of the things that we have been observing and reporting on here at Juneau News

00:11:15.280 since the federal election are changes that are happening in Alberta. Specifically, Danielle Smith

00:11:21.500 changed the Citizens Initiative Act, which she changed the rule to lower the threshold that would prompt a

00:11:28.280 referendum. So you need a certain number of signatures. She lowered that threshold and lengthened the period

00:11:35.280 of time that they needed. Um, so from 20, 20% of voters down to 10%. And I think she extended it,

00:11:40.780 uh, to several months, 120 days. Um, what do you, what do you make of those changes coming right after

00:11:46.800 the federal election? Uh, do you think that she was signaling something or, you know, she said that

00:11:51.000 they were going to make these changes either way, but I think that, that the signaling there was, uh,

00:11:55.500 pretty, pretty alarming. Let's add one more data point to this conversation and that's the, um,

00:12:01.680 the ability to recall a municipal mayor. And the requirement was something like half a million

00:12:08.160 people had to sign the recall act. And so it was tabled then that these recall reconsideration,

00:12:14.940 let the public have a say acts were inappropriate. They were structured terribly. And again, Jodi

00:12:21.520 Gondek, there was a hundred thousand people said, do we want you gone? And she goes, yeah, well,

00:12:25.740 it doesn't matter. You know, we needed 300,000 or 500,000 people to vote against.

00:12:30.400 I think all that Danielle's done is allow the separatist movement of voice. I don't think of

00:12:36.680 her as a separatist in any way, shape or form. And in fact, I was sitting at a dinner the other night

00:12:42.740 with a conversation about separatism and I'm getting pressed and pushed by a few people to

00:12:48.960 play a more profile role in separatism. And I politely say, well, if the separatist movement wants us to

00:12:56.180 separate, is the plan to build a chain link fence 20 feet high or a wall like Trump did down in the

00:13:04.920 border? Or are we just going to build a moat, a 20 foot wide, 10 foot deep moat? And people look at me

00:13:11.140 and go, that's one of the stupidest things you could ever say. You're right. It is stupid. So let's 1.00

00:13:16.560 talk about the difference between separation and improving the deal we have. We're not going to

00:13:22.300 separate. We're not physically separating. Separation simply means a better deal, a different deal. And

00:13:28.340 right now we're working on a better deal, a different deal, whether it's converting equalization

00:13:34.480 or getting a true energy corridor or respect for what it is we're doing as a province. And again,

00:13:40.920 that's uranium. It's mining. It's the North, South, East, West pipelines. There's so many things.

00:13:46.840 And I often will now start to push instead of separation, why don't we focus on what we would

00:13:52.760 call the collaboration movement. Collaboration would be Manitoba, next to Manitoba, something

00:13:59.780 called Saskatchewan, then Alberta and BC. We have two access ports to the North and to the West.

00:14:08.080 We have every resource Canada has, we have in spades, so to speak. And so if the West could

00:14:14.980 collaborate, work cooperatively, I think the rest of Canada, when there's a group of people,

00:14:20.740 a group of, of, uh, provinces in the, on the West called the, oh, the Atlantic provinces,

00:14:27.300 they work as a collaboration. I'm suggesting that the West be more thoughtful about collaboration.

00:14:33.860 And certainly Mo and Smith, I haven't talked to Wob Canoe, but the conversation about the idea of just

00:14:39.620 being more voiceful and more organized, again, collaborating as the West would make Canada better.

00:14:47.620 And we just punt this nonsense about, to be blunt, separation.

00:14:51.540 Interesting. I had Preston Manning, former leader of the, well, founder of the Reform Party,

00:14:56.260 former leader of the opposition. And he, he, he painted a similar picture where he was calling for

00:15:01.380 an assembly of the West. So Western, uh, politicians from provincial legislatures, uh, getting together

00:15:08.660 and talking policy, like having a democratic debate, which he claims it doesn't happen

00:15:12.580 as much with elected officials, cause it's too partisan, it's too back and forth, but

00:15:16.580 having sort of a collaborative discussion of the best ways to boost the efforts. I thought that was

00:15:21.220 a very interesting, uh, way of thinking about it. I'm curious, I had Keen Beckstein, my co-founder at

00:15:25.540 Geno News on last week, and he said that people in central Canada think that the people behind

00:15:29.380 the separatist movements are a bunch of hillbillies. He's like, but the reality is, he's like, I went

00:15:33.700 to a meeting and there was like a bunch of Ferraris outside and that the people who are pushing this

00:15:37.540 movement are like wealthy bankers and successful business people. And I'm just, I'm just curious

00:15:42.020 if you think that there's any validity to that point. I'd suggest that there's no one profile,

00:15:46.740 there's no rednecks, there's no business leaders. It's just people in Alberta who are, 1.00

00:15:50.820 to be blunt, pissed off. And they have every right to be pissed off, every right to be frustrated,

00:15:56.100 because 10 years of federal government with absolutely no concern, consideration for the

00:16:01.860 businesses of the West, the economic structures of the West. Again, it's the whole equalization

00:16:08.260 concept. And someone in the East, a friend of mine said, well, you don't write a check to Quebec.

00:16:13.220 You're correct. We don't. But take a look at what Quebec takes from the country. And it's pretty clear

00:16:19.060 that we effectively write a check. So don't tell me that the mechanic matters as to who we write the

00:16:24.580 check for. Money is absorbed from Alberta and the West and our energy and our uranium and all our

00:16:31.780 businesses and industries. And then it's absorbed and given to a province that doesn't have to report

00:16:37.620 hydro revenue, electrical generation. They don't have to report that as part of their assets.

00:16:44.100 Something very, very wrong with this structure. And so we've got every reason to be pissed off. And

00:16:48.660 whether it's a separatist wearing a make Canada great hat again, or what it is, I don't care.

00:16:56.020 But I wouldn't really characterize. I've got friends who talk separation at every level,

00:17:01.620 whether it's a lawyer, a banker, or the people at the coffee shop I hang out at. They're all

00:17:07.940 frustrated. They're all concerned. And they have a legitimate frustration, a legitimate concern.

00:17:12.820 I'm simply, and again, I wasn't aware that Preston was talking about the West, but I've been in several

00:17:18.180 meetings recently where this idea of collaboration has been tabled. And I can tell you, if I had to

00:17:23.060 have a vote, I would have had a hundred people say a hundred percent on side with collaboration.

00:17:29.860 And 20 people would have said no separation is more important. So it's a very, it's a very vocal

00:17:36.100 minority. And that's where with Daniel Smith, letting, you know, whatever the number is, 170,000

00:17:41.140 people, um, sign a petition that will trigger a referendum. Let's not forget that the referendum

00:17:48.500 vote doesn't come for a year ish. And we've got a year for Carney, Hudson and whatever Pierre can do

00:17:55.540 in the background, as well as, you know, Bob Canu and, and Scott Mo and, uh, Daniel Smith and maybe

00:18:01.460 EBE, um, trying to do something better for Canada in particular, the West, but if for the West is

00:18:07.540 better, Canada's better. Interesting. Okay. I really want to get your thoughts on this one. So Arlene

00:18:12.500 Dickinson, your former colleague at the Dragon's Den, she's a Canadian businesswoman, a very prominent

00:18:17.060 investor in television personality. She had this to say about Premier Smith. Here is quoting from CTV.

00:18:22.900 She says it's wholly un-Canadians. Let me just read this. It says last week, Canadian businesswoman

00:18:26.980 Arlene Dickinson posted on social media. She's genuinely stunned by Premier Daniel

00:18:31.220 Smith's actions of bill 54. That's the one that we're talking about changing the citizens

00:18:34.980 initiative act. She calls the bill wholly un-Canadian. She writes, I'm an Albertan and I

00:18:40.820 share the deep frustrations that Albertans have. I absolutely understand them. But there is a real

00:18:45.060 difference between fighting for fairness and threatening the foundations of our country,

00:18:49.220 Dickinson told CTV news Edmonton. She adds that while she understands how Albertans feel,

00:18:54.740 Smith isn't demonstrating leadership and hoped that she would rise to the occasion. So tell me,

00:18:59.620 Brett, what do you think of that? Well, Candace, my frustration with Arlene,

00:19:08.340 and it's tied in no small way to her close friendship with Jan Arden. Illogical, irresponsible,

00:19:15.700 unprofessional, unethical conversation. So if they want to start challenging people who are questioning

00:19:22.420 what's going on in Canada, I mean, all Danielle Smith has said is, I will let those with a voice

00:19:30.180 around separation have a voice. But it doesn't mean she's giving them any control. There's no outcome

00:19:36.820 that's a guarantee. And in fact, what frustrates Albertans and the West is how they're treated by the

00:19:43.780 East. And guess what? Arlene lives down East, and she's part of that world. All due respect,

00:19:48.900 she didn't do much for deals, isn't much of a business person. I mean, all due respect, she's,

00:19:54.340 you know, she doesn't do much. And it may be a lot of fun to work with on the show. And in fact, 0.87

00:19:59.700 she was the person who put my name forward. So I'm respectful of Arlene, the dragon,

00:20:04.420 but not Arlene, the business person, and certainly not Jan Arden as a spokesperson for Alberta. It's

00:20:10.500 just nonsense. And I, I'm just not there. Again, as I keep saying, I'm not a separatist,

00:20:15.300 but the separatist movement is elevating the voice of the debate and the conversation that we're having

00:20:21.380 with a country run by the same party that has made hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of

00:20:29.220 unethical mistakes running our country. And so we're going to let, no, Carney's being challenged

00:20:35.380 for sure, but let's see what time does for us. Well, thank you so much. It's always a pleasure

00:20:39.140 to have you on the show, Brett. We really appreciate your time and your insights. I hope to have you back

00:20:44.100 again real soon. All right, folks, that's all the time we have for today. Thank you so much for tuning

00:20:48.820 in. We'll be back again tomorrow with all the news. I'm Candace Malcolm. This is the Candace Malcolm

00:20:52.180 Show. Thank you and God bless. You're watching Juneau News, Canada's fastest growing independent

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Juno News - May 22, 2025

Dragon’s Den Star Brett Wilson SLAMS former co-star over Alberta independence comments

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