Juno News - Drive-In Pastors and Dial-In Parliamentarians

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show. This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:14.980 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:21.660 Another day of lockdown, another week even. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the Andrew Lawton Show, Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:29.240 It is great to have you tuned into the program as we continue to talk about everything that's happening in the world.

00:00:34.740 We are getting to the point where these stories are not as much coronavirus-related as they were a few weeks ago.

00:00:42.380 So a few weeks ago, the whole show was all COVID all the time. Now we're able to deviate a little bit here and there.

00:00:47.800 So I appreciate you sticking with us. I know that it's pretty much impacting everything.

00:00:52.000 So there's a reason that we're talking about all of this stuff.

00:00:54.400 But I will say thank you very much for coming to this show.

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00:01:18.340 But getting the boring PSA part of the program out of the way.

00:01:20.980 Yeah, my version of a PSA is just telling you to subscribe and wash your hands, I guess.

00:01:24.900 There, now it's a real PSA.

00:01:26.420 I want to talk about this story that we touched on on Monday that really struck a nerve with a lot of people, myself included.

00:01:33.320 And that was the police stakeout in Elmer, Ontario at the Church of God, where Pastor Henry Hildebrand oversaw a service in the parking lot.

00:01:44.240 A drive-in parking lot service where all the cars would tune into the sermon on an FM radio and listen to the church service the way they normally would.

00:01:53.660 Except instead of doing what many churches like my own are doing with having Zoom calls and Facebook streams and all that.

00:01:59.880 They were doing it live and not in the flesh necessarily, but live and in the car.

00:02:04.500 Which I thought was a fantastic way to have the sense of community that church gives and also maintain social distance.

00:02:12.260 Well, Elmer, Ontario Police had a different idea.

00:02:15.680 They were filming every car going in.

00:02:17.920 They were filming the service and now have handed it over to the Crown prosecutors.

00:02:22.720 And the Crown is now reviewing the evidence, which means watching a church service, which I guess can't hurt them.

00:02:29.120 And then decides whether they will advance this by laying charges or not, or by directing police to lay charges, which is just so asinine.

00:02:38.000 I mean, the title of my show the other day was Criminalizing Church, because that's really what's happening here.

00:02:43.760 And the one police officer had said people will be held accountable.

00:02:47.680 And they were saying, just because no one laid a ticket on Sunday doesn't mean that we won't down the road.

00:02:52.980 So I find this to be just horrendous and such an overreach.

00:02:56.560 And I want to talk about this in a bit more depth with the pastor who's presiding over these drive-in services from the Church of God in Elmer, Ontario.

00:03:03.940 Pastor Henry Hildebrandt joins me on the line now.

00:03:06.920 Pastor, thanks very much for your time today.

00:03:09.300 Thank you so much for having me.

00:03:11.000 So these are so difficult, these times that we're living in for churches, for all organizations and institutions.

00:03:17.680 And I know that a lot of organizations are finding their own ways to adapt electronically.

00:03:23.040 Why not do that?

00:03:24.540 Why not do the Zoom services or the Facebook streaming?

00:03:27.640 Why do this parking lot drive-in service?

00:03:30.800 Well, it seems to me that we're not alone because all over the world, not just in Canada, but all over the world,

00:03:37.060 you see there's a rapid, rapid moving towards rather doing it.

00:03:42.900 It's when you have the visual, it makes all the difference.

00:03:46.980 It's one thing to sit at home and hearing somebody somewhere, not knowing where they are,

00:03:52.840 or you come to the parking lot and you see the person, you see the action.

00:03:56.740 I mean, after all, when we preach, half of our preaching is by actions, right?

00:04:01.400 Yeah.

00:04:01.700 So I guess, though, there is an element of this where a lot of people are going to think this is just about rabble-rousing.

00:04:07.880 Is it about that or is there something more fundamental in the service that you're doing here?

00:04:12.280 There's something very, very fundamental here, very fundamental.

00:04:17.620 And that is that when you see that the liquor store is essential and church is not, that is serious.

00:04:26.100 It's an interesting point you bring up there because when the Ontario order went in initially

00:04:32.600 and we saw the list of all the businesses that were essential, I mean, there were very few that weren't essential.

00:04:38.280 And it is interesting that people waiting in a line in a grocery store, waiting in a line in a Costco,

00:04:43.960 where there's similar exposure to what you could replicate in a church,

00:04:48.200 you could put the same spacing there, that the two are, from a health perspective, very similar,

00:04:53.520 but from a legal perspective now or not.

00:04:56.600 Exactly, exactly.

00:04:57.540 And that's exactly where we should be right now.

00:05:00.040 It's exactly where we should be is we should be in our church buildings and space like they want us to do it.

00:05:08.580 But we are left far behind, and that's what troubles me extremely very much.

00:05:14.380 Okay, so you raise an important point there.

00:05:16.340 This isn't because you don't agree with the importance of social distance

00:05:21.140 or because you don't agree with the seriousness of the pandemic.

00:05:25.060 I see what they're saying, I listen to what they're saying, and I want to cooperate far fully.

00:05:31.700 Because you said in a press release that went out yesterday that no laws were broken

00:05:36.320 and all safety guidelines were followed.

00:05:38.640 Did you get legal advice on this before you did these drive-in services

00:05:42.280 or at least before the story blew up like it did last weekend?

00:05:46.340 Well, we were there.

00:05:48.560 We started, you know, at first was where 50 people were still allowed

00:05:52.760 and then it went down further and then five people and whatnot.

00:05:55.660 So then we had these drive-in services, and the police came and checked it up,

00:06:02.420 and they said, all good.

00:06:04.120 So the police actually were at the previous services and raised no issues.

00:06:11.040 And this is, I think, the one last Sunday, the third, as I understand it.

00:06:13.980 But police had been to the first two and flagged no concerns.

00:06:17.540 They were there for the first two, checked it up,

00:06:20.020 because obviously they have to respond if the call comes in.

00:06:22.760 They came and they found no breaking of the law in any shape or form,

00:06:27.860 and they said, enjoy.

00:06:28.800 So it was all good until this last one.

00:06:32.020 So why now?

00:06:33.180 Why change?

00:06:33.860 Because the messaging that we saw from the police in the National Post,

00:06:37.640 in the London Free Press,

00:06:38.620 that one line that really sends chills down me is,

00:06:41.860 people will be held accountable,

00:06:43.520 as though some mass subversion of the law has taken place here.

00:06:47.500 Why has the tone changed from those first two services

00:06:50.240 to the one most recently?

00:06:52.720 So the police had no problem with it whatsoever.

00:06:55.340 Like we said, they were there before.

00:06:57.540 But why that all of a sudden changed

00:06:59.960 was because of the Facebook postings that people do.

00:07:04.160 And we all know how much value, how much weight they carry.

00:07:08.180 But anyway, so they responded to that.

00:07:11.900 And the police thought that there was so many calls that came in.

00:07:16.360 I think it was 15.

00:07:18.040 So they thought that that was enough reason to shut us down, I guess.

00:07:21.840 And I don't know if you know who the complainants are,

00:07:24.240 but you're convinced that these were just people that saw it on Facebook,

00:07:27.080 not even people necessarily that were in the community

00:07:29.840 and impacted by this or drove by and saw it firsthand.

00:07:34.220 Yes, the chief admitted to that, that it was that.

00:07:38.700 So people were driving by and making assumptions.

00:07:42.360 And we followed that all Sunday afternoon,

00:07:45.160 exactly, saw exactly what was happening.

00:07:46.800 So we were not surprised when the police said that.

00:07:50.300 We knew exactly where he got his information from was Facebook.

00:07:53.320 Because people said, well, there was nobody in the car.

00:07:57.640 We were all in our cars.

00:07:59.040 The building was closed.

00:08:01.200 So that was an assumption they made.

00:08:03.200 And that's what the police chief based his information off of the,

00:08:06.960 I guess we could say, fake news of the Facebook.

00:08:09.520 And I noticed that you even had signs telling people to put their windows up.

00:08:14.000 So even if there was a possibility that someone would say the windows being down posed a risk,

00:08:17.920 you seem to have gotten ahead of that one.

00:08:19.720 We were ahead of that one.

00:08:21.300 We were very, very careful.

00:08:24.220 We were actually the safest, safest place in town at that point.

00:08:27.740 Let me ask you then about where you see this going.

00:08:32.220 Because the story in CTV as of this morning is that the Crown is assessing whether you've broken the law or not.

00:08:38.760 There's a lawyer quoted in the story who says,

00:08:40.940 because no one got out of their cars, it's not a gathering in his view.

00:08:44.400 But I think the one thing we've learned in the last few weeks is that a lot of people are making this up as they go.

00:08:49.480 So I don't know if anyone knows the actual definition here.

00:08:52.280 But is there a part of you that is wanting to get ticketed just so you can fight it and prove the point?

00:08:57.960 Or do you just want everyone to leave you alone so you can go back to doing these Sunday drive-ins as long as that's what's required?

00:09:04.300 Well, I think I proved my point that the first few weeks that we were there, we didn't try to get any attention.

00:09:10.420 The police came and they said, enjoy, it looks good.

00:09:12.700 So we were just happy to continue right on.

00:09:15.920 It wasn't us that caused this.

00:09:17.860 It was the police that said, no, no more.

00:09:20.120 Before it was good, now it's no good.

00:09:22.440 And like I said, there's many, there's other provinces, a number of them in Canada,

00:09:26.760 there's other countries in Europe and others that are going this way.

00:09:31.140 It's just you can't have proper fellowship sitting at home and just listening to someone.

00:09:36.300 You can do it for a time or two, but that's not holding through.

00:09:40.560 We need to see one another.

00:09:42.800 We need to have that fellowship, if you will.

00:09:45.720 Yeah, that is such an important part.

00:09:48.580 And people don't understand if they aren't from within the church, I think, the importance of that.

00:09:53.580 I mean, people get speaking with their friends and stuff.

00:09:55.940 And my church has moved to a lot of Bible studies online and fellowships online.

00:10:00.100 And you can replicate some of that community, but it's not the same thing.

00:10:04.640 It's not the same thing as shaking a hand, as breaking bread, and doing all of these other things that are as much a part of church as the sermon.

00:10:11.440 That's exactly it.

00:10:12.560 You just cannot do it.

00:10:14.560 And that's why I'm saying this issue now goes far, far beyond me or our church.

00:10:21.740 This affects all of us.

00:10:23.880 And when we put the police in front of the church building to make sure nobody enters, but we have the liquor store open,

00:10:33.640 that to me is not, now we're talking, this is serious.

00:10:36.780 It's not about me or our church.

00:10:38.320 It's about religious freedom, and that's very, very serious, where we are now.

00:10:43.340 When you mention religious freedom, I guess I have to ask if you think that this controversy is only taking place because you are a pastor and this is a church,

00:10:51.460 or do you think this is just a general overzealousness from law enforcement that would happen in any circumstance?

00:10:58.440 Well, I think they took it for granted that they could do with that whatever they wanted to,

00:11:02.860 that the church people would be glad to just stay at home.

00:11:05.420 And they definitely found one in me that is not happy to stay home, and the same with our people, and the same with many, many, many other people.

00:11:16.260 Church is essential to us.

00:11:18.740 The Bible says man shall not live by bread alone.

00:11:21.460 So we don't live just off of the grocery store.

00:11:23.800 We have to have our spiritual food.

00:11:25.740 Have you had a discussion or a thought process, or have you reached a decision, if you get a ticket, as to whether you will pay it or whether you will fight it and make this bigger point, if necessary, in court?

00:11:37.180 I am not concerned about that at this point at all.

00:11:41.740 We have tremendous, tremendous support coming in from all over.

00:11:47.520 I am not worried about that.

00:11:48.900 That's not my concern.

00:11:50.500 I want to make sure that I, as a pastor, fulfill my duty in feeding the people and do my best I can the way we're going about it.

00:11:58.500 But they'll have to figure all of that out.

00:12:00.800 I'm a preacher.

00:12:01.560 I'm not a lawyer.

00:12:02.100 Let me ask you here something, Pastor.

00:12:05.160 How big is your parking lot?

00:12:06.540 Because it sounds like there are a lot of people that might have the only opportunity to have this type of service by driving to Elmer on Sunday or in a couple of weeks, perhaps.

00:12:15.580 So can you accommodate the influx if a lot of people say, hey, you know what?

00:12:19.360 I'm not getting this anywhere else.

00:12:20.540 I'm going to check them out.

00:12:22.000 So what we're going to do is we're actively looking into finding a huge place, huge parking lot somewhere, putting up big screens.

00:12:28.780 People are calling from all over the place.

00:12:30.580 People are coming for this Sunday.

00:12:32.100 From hours away, they said they feel the same way as we do.

00:12:35.380 We cannot do.

00:12:36.380 We cannot do without gathering at least some time.

00:12:39.280 So we're going to accommodate that.

00:12:40.920 We're going to do what we can.

00:12:42.440 Our parking lot, I'm not sure how many it holds, probably about 70 cars or so, I would think.

00:12:47.600 So we're looking into it to see what we can do, where we can accommodate people, because it goes far, far beyond 70 cars at this point.

00:12:55.880 People from all over want to attend a service because that's just the nature of your heart, your soul desires to be fed.

00:13:04.580 Like I said, man shall not live by bread alone.

00:13:06.940 So people want to be fed, and they want to gather somewhere.

00:13:10.560 That's just part of it.

00:13:11.400 And we'll do it in the safest way possible, just like we have done.

00:13:13.820 I think there's a drive-in movie theater not far from you.

00:13:17.880 And I was actually wondering a couple of weeks ago if they might be allowed to reopen.

00:13:21.100 But that might be your way forward here to accommodate this, because I'm noticing that there are a lot of people, even people that aren't particularly religious, this has just been anecdotal on my part, that are really starting to ask a lot of questions.

00:13:35.180 And I think whenever there's a mass event like this, it does shake people's, not shake people's faith in a negative way, but I think can shake people's faith in a very positive way.

00:13:44.100 And I'm wondering if you're seeing that, people reaching out to you that aren't even necessarily religious, and not even necessarily because of the drive-ins you've been doing, saying, you know what, I have questions right now, and I'm not sure that the world, in its earthly sense, is answering them.

00:13:59.280 That's exactly it.

00:14:00.500 So we are taking all things into consideration right now to see where we could accommodate the people, because as a pastor, as you can imagine, there's absolutely no way that we're going to turn people away.

00:14:11.640 I realize that they don't want us to do it, but I also, on the other hand, clearly see our rights to do it, if we do it within the confines of what the thing is that we're dealing with.

00:14:22.840 So we're looking at all opportunities, see which way we could do it.

00:14:27.440 Like I said, there's a strong, strong support for it, not just support, but people are flocking in, wanting to hear, because it's just not normal that we would cut it out like this.

00:14:37.560 And I know that we don't know how long this is going to last, how long the lockdown is going to go on.

00:14:44.520 We've heard in the last few days a little bit of a discussion about, they call reopening the economy, and I find it interesting, because no one's talking about reopening churches, which I would say are not part of the economy per se.

00:14:55.980 But you're planning on doing this, it sounds like, as long as you need to.

00:14:59.040 This is, that's exactly what troubles me so much, when churches are put down as non-essential.

00:15:07.080 They are number one.

00:15:09.000 If we don't have God, we have nothing.

00:15:11.360 If we lose God, we lose everything.

00:15:13.720 So absolutely our church is essential, so we must, they must come first, and then we see how we can accommodate everything else.

00:15:22.100 I know not everybody would agree, but that is the way it is.

00:15:24.660 Joining me on the line, Pastor of the Church of God in Elmer, Ontario, Pastor Henry Hildebrandt.

00:15:30.840 Pastor, thank you so much for your time.

00:15:32.300 God bless you, and best of luck in your future drive-ins.

00:15:35.540 Gladly, Don.

00:15:36.380 Lord bless you.

00:15:37.580 You know, I'm not going to lie, I might actually check out that service.

00:15:40.020 I've got to check out when the times are and see what the frequency is.

00:15:43.000 And it's no offense to my own church, I would do both.

00:15:45.420 My church does Sunday sermons on the web, and I think that other churches are doing that as well.

00:15:50.540 And I don't know if this is something that could be replicated by everyone.

00:15:54.200 But again, when there is zero public health risk, I don't think anyone should be talking about prosecution.

00:16:01.020 So the fact that this seems to be a case of police capitulating to social media pressure more than anything else,

00:16:08.740 because I didn't realize the police had been there the first two weeks,

00:16:12.020 and then they all of a sudden, once the controversy starts, are saying people will be held accountable and menacing

00:16:17.240 and sending their evidence to the prosecutor.

00:16:19.180 There's no evidence.

00:16:20.020 There's video of a sermon.

00:16:21.420 That is not evidence of anything other than whatever the sermon was about.

00:16:26.160 So this is just so ridiculous now.

00:16:28.720 And you have law enforcement officials that I think, by and large, are in a tough place generally

00:16:33.800 that are making the wrong call here.

00:16:35.880 And it's very difficult for people to have any trust in the process and any lack, for lack of a better term,

00:16:41.220 and I apologize for the pun, faith in the system, when the system is, instead of going after actual problems,

00:16:47.780 instead is going after church services in which no one has been exposed to the air of other people

00:16:54.660 because they're all in their cars.

00:16:57.240 And I thanks to Pastor Henry Hildebrandt for coming on.

00:16:59.700 We'll be back in just a couple of moments here on The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:17:02.860 You're tuned in on True North.

00:17:04.080 We were talking in the first segment about drive-in church.

00:17:12.800 Maybe we need a drive-in house of commons. 0.98

00:17:14.860 Find some arena parking lot and all the MPs can come together and have their parliamentary session

00:17:20.140 because they couldn't do it online.

00:17:21.780 The, like, 338-person Zoom call of parliamentarians was about as sophisticated and effective

00:17:30.100 as you'd imagine a 338-person video chat being.

00:17:34.160 It was, to say the least, a little bit buggy.

00:17:38.580 And we learned how many MPs are unable to use the mute button

00:17:42.980 or don't know when they're muted or unmuted.

00:17:45.220 And I could have predicted this, actually.

00:17:47.060 In fact, I did predict this.

00:17:48.340 I don't know if it was on the show.

00:17:49.340 I've got to say more things on the show because that way, if it comes to pass,

00:17:53.740 I can, like, just play the clip and be like, see, told you so.

00:17:57.080 But I've seen interviews with, and I'm not even talking about, like, octogenarian MPs here.

00:18:01.840 Like, I've seen interviews with Seamus O'Regan and Patty Hajdu

00:18:05.160 and other cabinet ministers on CBC and other networks in the last few weeks.

00:18:09.460 And the amount of times that they are on mute.

00:18:12.320 And, you know, Rosie Barton will ask them a question and they'll be like... 0.55

00:18:16.340 And then, like, you know, the three times in a row, they'll be like, unmute, minister, unmute, minister.

00:18:22.100 And I think it was a Seamus O'Regan one where at the end of it, they just, like, threw to a break.

00:18:26.220 And they're like, well, we'll figure this out and come back with you later

00:18:29.300 because he just couldn't figure out how to unmute his phone.

00:18:31.760 So then you have MPs debating.

00:18:34.540 And the Speaker of the House, Anthony Roda, had to keep telling people,

00:18:38.160 please unclick your mute, which is like the catchphrase of 2020, I think.

00:18:42.680 Unclick your mute.

00:18:43.880 And the weird thing was you get a little bit of a glimpse.

00:18:46.700 And I always like seeing Skype interviews with famous people because you see kind of how they live.

00:18:50.980 And with MPs, I'm less interested.

00:18:52.860 But it is still something unique because MPs have decided to have all manner of backdrops.

00:18:58.820 And if it's anything like me, where I have, like, this one little corner where I've built a studio to do this for

00:19:05.200 so you see this and nothing else, when I used to do just random Facebook Lives or videos,

00:19:09.920 I picked, like, the one corner of my home that wasn't a total mess.

00:19:13.960 So, like, the one presentable-looking corner.

00:19:16.680 And anything else would have just been a disaster or you'd be in my kitchen or something like that,

00:19:21.160 and it wouldn't work.

00:19:22.240 But the thing with MPs is that, like, you can tell there's been a lot of curation that's gone into choosing where to do it.

00:19:28.260 So, Shannon Stubbs was in her kitchen.

00:19:30.400 You had other MPs that were in front of a bookshelf.

00:19:32.880 Some that were in front of an empty wall.

00:19:34.800 And my personal favorite was new Democratic Party MP Daniel Blakey,

00:19:39.420 who decided to do what I can only describe as an ISIS hostage video.

00:19:46.040 I'm not joking, by the way.

00:19:47.480 Look at where he is.

00:19:48.280 He is literally doing his thing in front of a bed sheet.

00:19:52.820 So, Daniel Blakey looks like he's...

00:19:55.200 It looks like an ISIS hostage video.

00:19:57.080 I mean, I'm glad he's not an ISIS hostage.

00:19:59.620 He tweeted about it and confirmed that it was a bed sheet.

00:20:02.080 So, I'm glad he's okay.

00:20:03.580 I don't know what was happening behind the bed sheet.

00:20:06.500 I feel like hanging a bed sheet for a parliamentary session is dangerous

00:20:09.960 because whatever you're hiding will eventually become revealed when the bed sheet falls down.

00:20:14.860 Like, you're asking for disaster there.

00:20:17.440 Or you don't know.

00:20:18.620 Maybe some silhouette is there.

00:20:19.980 Maybe he had someone doing shadow puppets behind him, shine the light on it.

00:20:23.260 But I was watching this and, you know, you get like Bill Morneau's posh living room or whatever.

00:20:28.060 And then you get Shannon Stubbs' lovely kitchen. 0.51

00:20:30.520 And then you've got Daniel Blakey, who it's just...

00:20:33.860 He's in the process of putting on a ghost costume, apparently.

00:20:36.500 And he had just, you know, hung up the two sides before he went up through the middle.

00:20:39.820 But he confirmed it's a bed sheet and it is not as nice as the House of Commons curtains.

00:20:45.580 I can safely say that.

00:20:47.180 Because the problem of doing this work from home thing is some people see a little bit more than they bargained for.

00:20:53.220 And this was certainly the case on Good Morning America,

00:20:55.980 where ABC correspondent Will Reeve was doing the lazy work from home thing that I've joked about in the past.

00:21:02.580 He did his hit wearing his suit and wearing or wearing his jacket, rather, wearing his dress shirt and wearing his boxer shorts.

00:21:11.200 Yeah.

00:21:11.500 And you can see in the frame there that his boxers are plainly visible.

00:21:17.100 And absolutely no one in the production room, the control room or on air had the courtesy to tell him,

00:21:23.720 hey, we can see your underwear or to at least punch in the camera a little bit to conceal it.

00:21:28.400 Now, thankfully, he was wearing underwear, at least.

00:21:30.460 If he was doing the whole commando work from home thing, it would be a different discussion.

00:21:35.260 And reporter Will Reeve had a bit of a sense of humor about it.

00:21:38.020 He said, trying to be efficient, he got ready for a post-GMA workout a little too soon.

00:21:42.980 The camera angle, along with family, friends and several hundred strangers on social media,

00:21:47.620 made me rethink my morning routine.

00:21:49.760 Any sartorial tips from these people who are wearing a belt, trousers and shoes during their work video calls at home are most welcome.

00:21:56.340 Now back to work wearing pants.

00:21:58.140 Now, I thought of doing like an elaborate bit where I would like, you know, accidentally stand up to adjust the camera.

00:22:03.520 And then I would reveal that I was in fact wearing my underwear and nothing else.

00:22:07.520 But then I thought that schtick comedy just doesn't work well when your body looks like mine.

00:22:11.880 So I didn't even want to go there.

00:22:13.380 But the thing is, no pantsless MPs, which is good because I'm not sure Canada could weather that storm.

00:22:18.860 But the thing that I find interesting is that they rushed this through.

00:22:23.280 They rushed this process through.

00:22:25.200 We weren't prepared for it.

00:22:26.620 The House of Commons committee responsible for doing these things that said this isn't going to be ready until May.

00:22:32.480 It was only because Justin Trudeau didn't want in-person settings of Parliament that they did this.

00:22:37.520 But then you have this story in CBC by J.P. Tasker describing the platform that the House of Commons used as, quote,

00:22:45.900 a gold rush for cyber spies, which is not exactly the trailblazing identity you want for virtual parliament.

00:22:53.840 A gold rush for cyber spies.

00:22:56.020 And the reason is because they're using Zoom, which is a common platform.

00:23:00.240 Everyone's using Zoom.

00:23:02.000 But to use it in this way does not have any added security benefits.

00:23:07.220 And we've seen tons of stories lately about what's called Zoom bombing.

00:23:11.260 People crashing Zoom meetings.

00:23:13.240 And in some cases, they're public ones like Jewish synagogues that are, as opposed to non-Jewish synagogues.

00:23:18.540 They're all, all synagogues are Jewish. 1.00

00:23:20.060 In any case, synagogues that are finding people are going on and launching rants of anti-Semitic slurs.

00:23:26.920 You've had people that have gone into virtual classroom sessions and showing Nazi imagery.

00:23:32.220 People have been advised to use due diligence when using the platform.

00:23:37.040 But what they found in an audit of Zoom by Citizen Lab is that the platform does not use true end-to-end encryption.

00:23:45.180 And the company has the theoretical ability to decrypt and monitor Zoom calls.

00:23:52.020 Now, Zoom says the company has changed its practices and has one of the most secure encryption standards available for video conferencing platforms.

00:24:00.280 But Citizen Lab found that that wouldn't really work because they were routing some of the data through China.

00:24:05.960 And even when all of meetings participants were outside of China.

00:24:09.180 So the reason I say all this is that Zoom is right now under the microscope and facing a lot of scrutiny.

00:24:15.720 Which means it's not the platform you'd want to use, ideally, for a new and innovative and meeting of government that is supposed to be secure.

00:24:25.580 So when this report says it's a gold rush for cyber spies to use Zoom, and this is the way that the House of Commons does it, there is an issue with that.

00:24:33.700 And I mean, when you see how technically inept a lot of MPs are, by not even knowing when they're muted or unmuted,

00:24:40.040 I don't think we can say that the MPs' ends are being done with much security.

00:24:45.000 So I don't know if they had to use House of Commons computers, which are supposedly more secure than personal computers,

00:24:50.840 or if they were just using their own devices.

00:24:53.060 I don't know that.

00:24:54.800 But there are a lot of questions here.

00:24:56.540 And when you know that this process was expedited,

00:24:59.280 when you know that it was done more quickly than it was supposed to,

00:25:03.040 and rolled out before it was supposed to be ready,

00:25:06.020 that's how mistakes are made.

00:25:08.180 And that's how the issues are happening.

00:25:10.160 Now, the Speaker of the House has said,

00:25:12.700 oh, no, no, we're using a reconfigured version of Zoom that has different security features.

00:25:17.640 But he hasn't extrapolated on what those are and how they differ.

00:25:21.740 And did they use Zoom source code and add-on features?

00:25:25.140 Is it a proprietary version of Zoom?

00:25:26.980 Is it something specific for governments?

00:25:28.880 I don't know.

00:25:29.800 But like I said, I think we're closer to just having drive-in services for parliamentarians

00:25:34.560 and having that be a bit more secure.

00:25:36.260 Maybe Henry Hildebrandt can be the Speaker of the House for a little bit

00:25:39.420 because he's got more experience with this thing,

00:25:41.300 and you don't have to tell people to unmute.

00:25:44.300 And the one thing I will point out,

00:25:46.020 just as far as the way the media has responded to this,

00:25:49.240 all MPs working from anywhere,

00:25:52.140 Daniel Blakey from, you know, an ISIS camp somewhere,

00:25:56.040 and Shannon Stubbs from her kitchen,

00:25:58.180 and Michelle Rempel from an American fireplace.

00:26:01.580 Yes, this is what Susan Delacorte of the Toronto Star decided to take aim at

00:26:06.020 by pointing out that Michelle Rempel was using a Canadian flag on a, quote,

00:26:12.520 U.S. fireplace, I assume, unquote.

00:26:16.200 Now, I've always gotten along with Susan Delacorte.

00:26:18.960 And I know that she's, like many people at the Star who are columnists,

00:26:23.040 has a particular persuasion.

00:26:24.640 I've always gotten along with her.

00:26:26.020 She may have just meant it as a playful jab.

00:26:30.600 She may have just meant it as a little, not even a jab,

00:26:32.560 as just a little playful remark.

00:26:34.480 But it comes across as needlessly pointed,

00:26:37.940 especially when the Toronto Star did this big, long thing yesterday,

00:26:41.860 pointing out that Michelle Rempel had been working from Oklahoma during the pandemic.

00:26:45.740 Now, that's where her husband is.

00:26:47.360 That's where she had to go for some personal emergency, she said.

00:26:51.100 But the fact is, if everyone's working remotely,

00:26:54.100 it doesn't really matter if you are in Toronto or Calgary or Oklahoma or Idaho or Vanuatu,

00:27:03.400 or I'm just going to keep rhyming off places until you get the point.

00:27:06.240 Do you get it?

00:27:06.900 Okay, good.

00:27:07.880 I have so many more to list, too.

00:27:09.360 But it doesn't really matter.

00:27:10.400 The whole point of working remotely is that if you have an internet connection,

00:27:13.840 it doesn't matter.

00:27:14.900 She's not taking face-to-face meetings.

00:27:16.480 She's not going to events.

00:27:17.700 She's not doing in-person committee meetings.

00:27:19.600 So who cares?

00:27:21.260 I mean, maybe there's a novelty aspect to being a Canadian parliamentarian

00:27:26.840 sitting in an American living room to do parliamentary business in Ottawa.

00:27:31.140 But when it's done in this way, it makes people just cringe.

00:27:36.420 Because this is the type of criticism that only seems to be directed to conservatives.

00:27:41.180 And you know that the basis of it, too, is that it's an American state.

00:27:44.860 I mean, if it were France or England, I don't think anyone would care.

00:27:48.200 But it's, oh, you know, she's in America.

00:27:50.080 I mean, remember the big deal that the media made about Andrew Scheer having dual citizenship

00:27:53.980 from when he was a child?

00:27:55.080 A story that I just really couldn't find the strength or interest to care about.

00:28:00.480 It just wasn't there.

00:28:01.480 So that's why I find this to be just such a ridiculous thing.

00:28:06.040 And Michelle Rempel has fought back against this. 1.00

00:28:08.480 I mean, even Thomas Lukaszczyk or Lukaszczyk or whatever his name is, that useless former

00:28:13.460 deputy premier of Alberta had said, imagine if a Liberal or NDP MP pulled this off.

00:28:18.720 Well, there wouldn't be a story about it.

00:28:22.460 I mean, if a Liberal or NDP MP did a story about that, I don't think there would be,

00:28:27.200 or if they did that, I don't think there would be a story about it.

00:28:29.440 And by the way, I don't know if the Toronto Star even canvassed any other MPs.

00:28:33.320 I don't know if they canvassed.

00:28:34.580 I mean, Daniel Blakey's bed sheet, that could have been in Oklahoma for all we know.

00:28:38.040 Who knows?

00:28:38.920 So the media would not care about it.

00:28:41.660 So the fact that this is like deemed as something of a strike against her, that Michelle Rempel

00:28:47.660 had to tend to some personal business and she has still continued to do her job. 0.50

00:28:53.640 That, if anything, in this is a story is the story, but I'd say it's no story at all.

00:28:57.780 The whole point of working remotely is that you can do it from wherever you want.

00:29:02.160 And if she's doing the work, I don't really care where she is.

00:29:05.900 I honestly don't.

00:29:07.200 And if she's balancing life with being an MP for Calgary, working in Ottawa, with a husband

00:29:12.580 and family in Oklahoma, I don't really think it's anyone's business how she executes that 1.00

00:29:17.400 balance.

00:29:17.800 She's getting her job done.

00:29:19.120 That's what matters.

00:29:19.960 So I found that ridiculous.

00:29:21.480 Regardless of the intention of Susan Delacorte's tweet, the story itself, I think, was flawed.

00:29:26.800 And the tweet itself just seemed to be adding fuel to a fire that, in my view, didn't need

00:29:31.360 to be burning.

00:29:32.700 When we come back, more of The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:29:34.720 You're tuned in on True North, Canada's most irreverent talk show.

00:29:37.740 Stay with me.

00:29:40.420 You're tuned in to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:29:43.060 Have you ever seen these stories where they are satire or fake in some way, but they could

00:29:51.160 be true?

00:29:51.800 And I mean, it's like Donald Trump's tweets.

00:29:53.400 Even if you're a fan of Donald Trump's tweets, you have to understand that whenever you see

00:29:57.320 one that looks insane or looks just out of nowhere and it looks like there's no way it

00:30:01.900 could be real, it sometimes is.

00:30:03.320 Or you'll see one where the reverse is true, where it looks like it's real.

00:30:07.000 And then because, you know, why not?

00:30:08.240 He says all sorts of things and then he doesn't.

00:30:10.400 So Justin Trudeau's spending programs are kind of like that.

00:30:13.180 He spends on everything.

00:30:14.440 So it's easy to assume that any spending announcement is a plausible one.

00:30:18.840 And he even duped, well, he didn't, but one of his MPs was even duped by this.

00:30:23.900 Ramesh Sangha, who's a member of parliament in Brampton, Brampton Center, if memory serves,

00:30:30.880 seemed to fall for a funding announcement that didn't exist.

00:30:33.820 He tweeted out on April 27th at 11.34 a.m., Prime Minister announced the Canadian Emergency

00:30:40.860 Apiary Benefit that will provide $3 billion in funding to beef farms in need.

00:30:45.940 He said, quote, we know this has been a difficult time for apiarists across Canada.

00:30:50.860 Today, I wanted to let you all know Canadians stand with you.

00:30:54.900 Together we stand and then praying hands together.

00:30:57.780 So Ramesh Sangha was actually very pleased of being the member of parliament for Brampton

00:31:02.020 Centre, which starts with a B, that the Trudeau government was giving $3 billion to beef farmers

00:31:07.060 in need.

00:31:08.300 Now, no such funding announcement existed.

00:31:10.780 And a few hours later, at 3.03 on the same day, Mr. Sangha deleted his tweet and said,

00:31:16.020 I tweeted this morning that PM announced the Canadian Emergency Apiary Benefit that will

00:31:20.900 provide $3 billion in funding to beef farms in need.

00:31:24.000 I offer my sincere regrets for sharing this information that turned out not to be true.

00:31:28.840 And apparently he was very disappointed by this because he was, you know, Big B had been

00:31:33.660 lobbying him hard.

00:31:35.500 And then I'm like, OK, so, you know, of all of the programs and wage subsidies and initiatives

00:31:41.620 and benefits and bailouts, it wouldn't surprise me if beef farms were being bailed out.

00:31:47.240 I mean, that would just be as sweet as honey here.

00:31:49.380 And I'm going to just stop with the bee puns because the hive has told me to.

00:31:53.600 But the whole point of this is that, like, this was believable to a Liberal MP because

00:31:59.700 everything else has been coming out.

00:32:01.780 And I was trying to figure out how he got duped by this.

00:32:04.500 And I just searched for the Canadian Emergency Apiary Benefit.

00:32:09.400 And I saw at, what time was it here?

00:32:12.680 1.45 and before then, 11.17.

00:32:17.380 So at 11.17 a.m., so 17 minutes before Ramesh Tsang had posted it, someone had said

00:32:23.720 on Twitter, today we are announcing the Canadian Emergency Apiary Benefit.

00:32:27.860 The CEAB program will provide $3 billion in funding to bee farms in need.

00:32:32.260 We know this has been a difficult time, yada, yada, yada.

00:32:34.520 And it seems like this, which was clearly meant as a joke from someone who was responding

00:32:40.520 to a tweet from Justin Trudeau's, was that tweet somehow got its way to Ramesh Tsang,

00:32:48.020 who fell for it.

00:32:49.480 And then a Conservative MP saw it and was tweeting it out.

00:32:51.960 And that was actually how I saw it.

00:32:53.640 But again, it's like the fact that $3 billion to bee farmers seems plausible enough, I think,

00:32:59.160 tells you something about how even Liberal MPs view Justin Trudeau's spending.

00:33:04.700 In any case, enough about bees for the time being.

00:33:06.420 I've been stung enough times in my life that I don't need to dwell on that necessarily.

00:33:11.500 Here's a good one.

00:33:12.300 If you are trying to find ways to defeat COVID-19 from the New York Times, and this is one for

00:33:17.860 all you gentlemen out there, can estrogen and other sex hormones help men survive COVID-19?

00:33:24.040 Now, we know that men are more likely than women to die of coronavirus.

00:33:28.160 So scientists are now wondering if the goal is to inject men with female hormones and hope 0.85

00:33:34.560 that that helps.

00:33:35.300 And this is from Ronnie Karen Rabin.

00:33:38.940 They found that women, whether from China, Italy, or the U.S., are less likely to become

00:33:43.220 acutely ill, less likely to die.

00:33:45.460 So what are the hormones that may be helping women do that? 0.99

00:33:49.380 So the scientists on the East Coast and the West Coast are doing clinical trials where they're

00:33:53.700 dosing men with estrogen and in progesterone is the other one.

00:33:59.840 Estrogen is for one test and progesterone for the other and seeing if they can find a way

00:34:04.960 around this.

00:34:05.540 Now, the good news is it might cure you of COVID.

00:34:07.800 The bad news is buried at the bottom of the article here.

00:34:11.760 Participants will be warned of possible side effects that may be a first for many men,

00:34:18.400 like tenderness in the breast and hot flashes.

00:34:21.260 You know what?

00:34:21.780 Being cured of coronavirus comes with a cost.

00:34:23.780 This is the one that it is for men. 0.99

00:34:25.900 This is a story completely non-COVID related that I have to talk about here because I followed

00:34:31.080 on this show in the past, big tech and this malignant alliance brewing between big tech

00:34:35.960 and governments.

00:34:37.340 And now you have an interesting push here that we're seeing where people are saying that Google

00:34:42.960 and Facebook should be paying news outlets.

00:34:46.040 The French and Australian governments have done this.

00:34:49.220 They've actually made it so that these social media platforms that are purveyors of news content,

00:34:56.560 but not publishers of it, should have to pay the news publishers who are actually

00:35:01.080 making the content here.

00:35:03.360 And Australia basically says that these platforms rely on media outlets, therefore they have

00:35:09.160 to pay them.

00:35:10.140 So here's the interesting thing about this.

00:35:12.400 There's going to be a push coming in Canada.

00:35:14.220 We know that Postmedia, for example, seems to be on board with this already.

00:35:18.260 There's an independent panel that we talked about that seemed to recommend this.

00:35:23.120 And a government spokesperson has confirmed that the feds are studying the announcement.

00:35:28.520 Now, there was a column from Sean Spear who actually wanted to get on the show, but I knew

00:35:33.400 that I was going to have Henry Hildebrandt on.

00:35:34.960 So maybe Sean and I will chat about this next week.

00:35:37.240 But he had said that this is not just a left-wing issue here.

00:35:40.600 And I'm going to read into the challenges that are coming from the social media companies

00:35:47.700 to the Australia and French decisions.

00:35:50.520 Because I think they are going to be likely pushing back against this even more than they

00:35:55.460 are now.

00:35:55.960 They're in the midst of a pandemic.

00:35:57.140 So that kind of dampens things a bit here.

00:36:00.620 But the whole point is that if you look at this from a government regulation perspective,

00:36:06.640 and Sean Spear makes this point in his column, that government intervention is anti-competitive

00:36:11.160 and anti-innovation.

00:36:12.000 That's the standard conservative line.

00:36:14.220 But he's saying there's no self-evident answers because you have to look at the application

00:36:19.260 of first principles to a new and emerging issue.

00:36:22.500 And I know this sounds kind of buzzwordy, but I'm talking about this passage of that

00:36:27.860 for a reason here because I'm laying out the complexity of it.

00:36:30.960 So I look at this through basically two prongs.

00:36:35.700 Number one, yes, there's no denying that social media companies have entire business models

00:36:42.180 that are based on other people's content.

00:36:44.360 Facebook, Twitter don't exist if you don't give them free content.

00:36:47.680 And that's what makes them distinct from actual media platforms.

00:36:51.380 Now, at the same time, government regulation always creates more problems than it solves.

00:36:58.260 And we see that in every aspect, especially speech.

00:37:01.400 Look at the alliance that's brewing between government and social media on regulating

00:37:05.620 so-called hate speech.

00:37:06.860 And the fact that putting these social media companies under the thumb of government is

00:37:11.120 not going to do anything other than make them beholden to governments, which eliminates

00:37:16.220 the independence and the free market aspect of them, which is the basis on which I have

00:37:21.820 my defense of them.

00:37:23.940 Because I take this position, which puts me really in between liberals and conservatives,

00:37:28.340 because I hate these companies, but I hate government regulation even more.

00:37:33.140 And anyone who says, oh, but they're, you know, they're so big, you know, they, anyone

00:37:37.960 can start a social media company.

00:37:39.880 I could today, if I could find the money, I could launch a social media company.

00:37:44.500 There's no barrier to entry because it is an unregulated space.

00:37:47.960 It's not the same with the TV station.

00:37:49.620 I can't go out and create a TV station.

00:37:51.640 I can't go out and create a radio station, but I can create a website.

00:37:55.520 I can create a social media platform.

00:37:57.440 And the fact is, Twitter is a competitor of Facebook.

00:38:01.440 Facebook and Twitter are competitors of Google.

00:38:03.760 These spaces do have competitors, which is why you have these players.

00:38:08.080 Now, the challenge is that a lot of these companies are buying up competition.

00:38:11.680 So you get Instagram that gets bought by Facebook.

00:38:14.220 Snapchat, I think, got bought by someone else.

00:38:16.400 And WhatsApp got bought by Facebook.

00:38:18.280 So yeah, and if you want to look at antitrust legislation and antitrust suits, you can.

00:38:22.660 But the whole point is that this is an unregulated space, which means that it is a free market,

00:38:28.600 even if you don't have as many players as you could have or should have.

00:38:32.860 So if you force them to pay news content or pay news platforms for content, you're getting

00:38:40.320 into a very dangerous area because the news industry is similarly reliant on Facebook and

00:38:46.660 Twitter.

00:38:47.720 You know, you look at stats on many news websites and the vast majority of traffic,

00:38:52.260 does not come from people going to www.globeandmail.com.

00:38:56.540 It comes from people clicking on a Globe and Mail link in a Facebook feed or in a Twitter

00:39:01.920 post.

00:39:02.720 That's where it comes.

00:39:03.540 That's the vast majority of traffic is referral traffic, referral from social media links to

00:39:08.640 emails to a lesser extent and other things.

00:39:10.840 So if you want to say that social media was built by news websites, you also have to say

00:39:17.880 that a lot of news website traffic now is built by social media.

00:39:22.160 And I don't know who the upper hand is there.

00:39:24.860 I don't know who's winning more than the other.

00:39:27.060 I would be inclined to say it's the reverse.

00:39:29.500 I would be inclined to say that it's actually media companies that are benefiting more from

00:39:33.920 social media.

00:39:34.700 The problem is that if you build your business model around a specific platform, you're at

00:39:41.060 the mercy of that platform.

00:39:42.600 And we've all seen this.

00:39:43.820 Facebook has decided to just scrap someone's account and get rid of their pages or Twitter

00:39:48.560 has decided to overtly ban or the more insidious shadow banning of someone or YouTube demonetizes

00:39:54.900 an account.

00:39:55.400 There are a lot of content producers that have made their entire living and fame from YouTube

00:40:01.400 until YouTube flips the switch and says no longer.

00:40:05.160 And that's dangerous.

00:40:06.540 I don't know how you answer that, though, in a way that doesn't come out with government

00:40:11.040 having to regulate what is supposed to be a free market.

00:40:14.200 If you have a solution, I'm all ears.

00:40:16.420 But if you support government intervention because you don't like that social media companies

00:40:20.760 are run by lefties and targeting conservatives, you're also endorsing an attitude that could

00:40:25.560 just as easily turn on you down the road.

00:40:29.700 That does it for me.

00:40:30.660 For today, my thanks to all of you for tuning into the show and to Pastor Henry Hildebrandt

00:40:34.740 for coming on.

00:40:35.660 I'll let you know if I end up making it to his service on Sunday.

00:40:38.440 I'm not committing to anything because I just don't even know what my life is looking like

00:40:41.780 from one day to the next, let alone a few days ahead.

00:40:44.320 But if I do, I will give you a full report on Monday's show.

00:40:48.080 We'll talk to you then, folks.

00:40:49.220 Thank you.

00:40:49.700 God bless.

00:40:50.260 And good day, Canada.

00:40:51.380 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:40:53.260 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

00:41:00.660 Thomas

00:41:02.760 Thank you.

00:41:04.480 You're welcome.

00:41:04.780 Boom.

00:41:06.280 Bye-bye.

00:41:07.340 I'm not sure.

00:41:07.860 Yeah.

00:41:09.140 I'm not sure.

00:41:09.860 I'm not sure.

00:41:10.620 You're welcome.

00:41:11.500 I'm not sure.

00:41:13.200 I'm not sure.

00:41:13.940 I'm not sure.

00:41:14.540 I'm not sure.

00:41:15.300 I'm not years from it.

00:41:17.280 You're welcome.

00:41:18.200 I'm not sure.

00:41:19.040 You're welcome.

00:41:20.600 I'm not sure.

00:41:21.500 I'm not sure.

Juno News - April 29, 2020

Drive-In Pastors and Dial-In Parliamentarians

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