Juno News - Ejected UCP MLA Drew Barnes speaks out

00:00:00.000 Over the weekend, a very long caucus meeting resulted in the expulsion of two MLAs from

00:00:13.000 Jason Kenney's UCP caucus. Those MLAs, Todd Lowen and Drew Barnes, seem to be punished for

00:00:21.160 challenging their leader, if you will. Todd Lowen is the MLA who last week published that letter in

00:00:27.560 which he announced he was stepping down from his role as UCP caucus chair and calling on Jason

00:00:33.260 Kenney to resign. This was really trying to call attention to what he says is a leadership deficit

00:00:39.880 in the way Jason Kenney's been handling the pandemic. We know there's been a lot of criticism

00:00:44.280 for Kenney from within his own caucus on lockdowns and restrictions and Todd Lowen had said, listen,

00:00:50.440 I cannot serve in this position. So this was something that triggered this marathon caucus

00:00:56.420 meeting on the weekend. Again, seven hours long by all accounts. And at the end of it,

00:01:00.940 Drew Barnes, who we've had on the show a number of times, was also caught up in it. Now, Drew Barnes

00:01:05.820 has been in the past critical of certain government directives, but he's also been in other ways a foot

00:01:11.540 soldier of the UCP as Todd Lowen has. And more importantly, they're trying to represent their

00:01:17.060 constituents and their base. But that was not good enough. The UCP has ejected them from caucus and

00:01:22.920 said that they were dividing the caucus, dividing the party. I want to dig into this a little bit

00:01:28.300 further. Drew Barnes, Cyprus Medicine Hat MLA joins me on the line now. Newly independent Cyprus Medicine

00:01:35.040 Hat MLA. Drew, it's good to talk to you. Thanks for coming on today. Nice to talk to you again,

00:01:39.760 Andrew. Thank you. Now, Drew, as I mentioned, you are a newly independent MLA, but I should stress this

00:01:45.320 is not by choice, is it? Yeah, it was an interesting situation for sure. The premier for about a year

00:01:55.020 had said that he welcomed public debate. He welcomed public discussion. Of course, Andrew, I'm not in

00:02:01.920 cabinet. So my role is to hold the government to account. And of course, Cyprus Medicine Hat 0.85

00:02:06.500 constituents believe that Alberta should be the free and most prosperous place in North America.

00:02:12.380 And that was my job and my goal to, you know, do what I could to make that happen. And, you know,

00:02:19.880 all of a sudden, Thursday, after my colleague Todd Lowen had published the letter, it was determined that

00:02:26.420 I should be ejected from caucus as well. But, you know, Andrew, that's also an important part.

00:02:33.720 Todd Lowen, a very respectful, hardworking constituent, conservative,

00:02:39.340 heard from his constituents to such a degree that Premier Kenney and the UCP government had not met

00:02:45.520 expectations that he felt so strongly he had to publicly ask for the premier's resignation.

00:02:52.680 And then that kicked off a process that I now find myself as an independent.

00:02:57.940 So I have to ask you on that note, Drew, why you? Why at this point? Because I understand,

00:03:03.520 not that I agree with it, but I understand the timing of Todd's expulsion from caucus,

00:03:07.380 given that he had written that letter. It was kind of surprising when at the end of this meeting,

00:03:11.700 the news comes out that you were swept up in this as well. What was the rationale for

00:03:16.160 kicking you out at that moment?

00:03:18.840 You know, all I can surmise is that he, you know, Premier Kenney really doesn't believe in

00:03:24.780 dissent and debate. And again, you know, when I'm not a member of cabinet, when I'm not a minister,

00:03:31.880 it's my obligation. And I'm so honoured to represent Cyprus Medicine Hat now in my third term.

00:03:37.040 It's my obligation to present ideas to the government, to, you know, criticize when they're

00:03:43.860 wrong, to present ideas and to hold them to account. And, you know, my summation at this point

00:03:50.240 is that wasn't the case. You know, I think back seven or eight months when I supported the government

00:03:56.500 because we had a regional approach to the COVID lockdowns. And when the government abandoned the

00:04:01.780 regional approach, I changed my level of support for what they were doing. And I don't know,

00:04:08.440 in the rear view mirror, I guess it was only allowed if I was mostly on side.

00:04:14.720 Certainly the lockdowns and restrictions seem to galvanise a lot of people. And we're seeing this

00:04:19.820 across the country, not just in Alberta, as far as response to government's directions and policies

00:04:25.380 on this. But you had had some misgivings about the way that the government was handling some other

00:04:30.240 files. I know you and I spoke previously about Western alienation, about the upcoming referendum.

00:04:35.480 And it sounds like this lockdown, the resistance to the lockdowns was not an isolated

00:04:41.500 frustration, if I can use the word, that you had.

00:04:45.380 Yeah. I hear it time and time again from Albertans and Cyprus Medicine Hatters that they feel strongly that 1.00

00:04:51.920 Premier Kenny has not met expectations. Two years ago, the election of the Premier and the UCP

00:04:59.800 was to get a fair deal with Ottawa and our Canadian partners. I mean, you know, we send about 25 billion

00:05:06.880 more a year into the Canadian Confederation than we receive. And we've had some tough times. And,

00:05:12.860 you know, it's time to change that. And Albertans tell me all the time that they want to push the

00:05:20.200 envelope to see what can be achieved. There's a lot of disenchantment. They feel that the Premier

00:05:25.920 Kenny has abandoned that. Secondly, the fiscal situation, Andrew, right now, Alberta has the

00:05:31.680 highest per capita deficit, the highest per capita deficit of all of all Canadian provinces. And of

00:05:39.560 course, our desire for freedom, for choice, for fiscal responsibility is very, very high here.

00:05:44.960 And Andrew, maybe the third thing is a poll came out a short time ago showing that Premier Kenny in

00:05:52.860 Alberta, in Alberta, Premier Kenny, his popularity has slipped so much, he's polling at the same level

00:05:59.280 as Justin Trudeau. And so when you're polling at the same level with somebody whose values don't

00:06:05.200 match Albertans, you know, that's an indicator of the frustration and the desire for change that

00:06:11.900 Albertans are having. I know you said that you're not in cabinet. So you thought that your role as

00:06:16.320 an MLA was to speak out against things that you didn't like and hold the government to account.

00:06:21.340 But there is, I think, a question that a lot of people would ask here, Drew, which is why did you,

00:06:25.960 if you had these misgivings about the leadership of your party, why did you not resign? Why did you

00:06:30.960 stick around in the UCP when you were seeing these concerns that you've outlined?

00:06:35.640 Yeah, and a fair question. And thank you for that. You know, we're two years into this term,

00:06:40.620 we're two years before the next election. And it was always that trade off, you try to change it

00:06:45.800 from within, you keep speaking up from within, you keep trying to put things on the caucus agenda

00:06:50.620 that never appear on the caucus agenda, you at what point you say, you know, I'm better to be

00:06:56.480 outside this, this party than inside to affect the kind of change that my constituents are looking

00:07:01.980 for. You know, freedom and prosperity is what I hear daily from families and communities in Alberta

00:07:07.780 and Cyprus medicine at. Again, the feeling is strong that Premier Kenny and the UCP is off track.

00:07:14.880 And so, you know, and Andrew, one of the things about now that's kind of ironic is, you know,

00:07:21.660 six, eight months ago, when I'd be talking to my constituents, and they'd say, yeah, we're not

00:07:24.820 happy with the way things are going, but stick there, keep trying to change, you know, see what

00:07:29.880 can happen. I would estimate maybe 70% used to say that. In the last month, fewer and fewer. So,

00:07:38.840 you know, and I'm excited about this opportunity. Now I have the chance to be an independent,

00:07:43.780 an independent conservative. I think there's tens of thousands of Albertans whose voices aren't being

00:07:48.980 heard. This gives me the opportunity to listen to them, to learn from them and to act. And, you know,

00:07:55.740 I'm grateful that I have the chance to be the voice of many Albertans who feel their thoughts

00:08:00.620 and ideas weren't making it to the floor of the legislature. When you look at what happened in your

00:08:06.640 time in the UCP, culminating in this expulsion from caucus, had you been put on notice? Had you

00:08:12.240 been warned? Or was this completely out of left field? Completely out of left field. It was, there

00:08:19.100 was a caucus meeting for Thursday. It was cancelled. And that would have been the second one in a row

00:08:24.160 cancelled. I woke up the next morning and saw Todd Lowen's letter calling for the premier's

00:08:31.420 resignation. And I thought, okay, this will lead to something. So a new caucus meeting was called for

00:08:37.420 1230. There was a little trouble getting it going. And about five to one when it started, the second or

00:08:45.300 third thing was, there's going to be a vote on ejecting Todd and Drew Barnes. So I spent, ended up

00:08:52.420 spending five or six hours on the phone, you know, saying my side of the story, what I was hearing

00:08:58.800 from my constituents, the premier's plummeting popularity, and how that was a factor, how we

00:09:04.500 needed to pivot as a group. And then we ended up with votes cast. And at about 735, as expected,

00:09:15.060 you know, I, as soon as they, as soon as it was announced that they were going to vote on my

00:09:19.160 ejection, I believed I was done. But as expected, at 735, I was done. And it's time to talk to my

00:09:24.920 constituents, talk to my family. And it's time to reorganize so I can do the best job for Albertans

00:09:30.320 that believe in freedom, prosperity, and fiscal conservative values.

00:09:35.160 Has there been a roadmap of sorts on how you might get back into caucus, if that's something you would

00:09:40.640 at all even be interested in? Or is your, is your view that this is kind of a permanent response?

00:09:46.500 Well, you know, I, as a conservative, and as I was one of the early people to support putting the

00:09:54.840 two legacy parties, the Wild Rose and the PCs together, a lot of the great work done by our

00:10:02.440 volunteers in terms of policy and governance for the UCP is great stuff. There's a lot of good stuff

00:10:08.160 there. So there's a lot of things I'm aligned with, with the UCP, for sure. But at this point,

00:10:14.640 what I am not aligned with is the leadership. So that would have to change.

00:10:20.400 How alone, if I can use the term, do you feel you are among your former colleagues right now?

00:10:26.400 Because I've heard whispers and rumors of people that are similarly dissatisfied. But when push

00:10:31.860 comes to shove, I'm not hearing the public displays of support for you and Todd right now.

00:10:37.140 Yeah, thanks for that question. No, I feel quite strong. And thank them so much. Several of them

00:10:42.820 spoke on my behalf. Several of them have texted me, called me, emailed, offering support and a chance

00:10:49.820 to talk. Yeah, no, I feel really strong about it. And, you know, it was always the same old age old

00:10:56.620 struggle. Do you speak up just from within? Or do you speak up publicly? Or do you do both? How does

00:11:03.520 caucus move a premier and cabinet to get them on track to where Albertans are happy with the direction,

00:11:09.820 which again, is freedom and prosperity, you know, in Albertans books and Cyprus medicine hat. So no,

00:11:15.680 I there's a lot of support there for what I was doing and what I was saying, especially when it come

00:11:22.300 to, you know, pushing the envelope with Ottawa for a fair deal, having regionalization for the COVID

00:11:27.540 restrictions, smaller, less expensive government, there was lots of support. And I'm a little concerned

00:11:33.880 that my ejection will lead some of them to speak up less, because there's a penalty to pay. But the

00:11:40.220 other side of that, Andrew, is, is I've had hundreds of people reach out to me just in two or three days

00:11:45.900 and, and Pat, you know, pat me on the back, congratulate me, offer me encouragement is the

00:11:50.300 main thing. And so, so I'm really grateful for that. And I will bet you and I'll guarantee you that

00:11:57.300 my colleagues will be the same when they when they stand with their constituents, they'll get support.

00:12:01.760 And that's important. That is, I think, a tremendously important point, because, you know,

00:12:06.620 there's that old, that old line that, you know, eventually you're going to run out of people to

00:12:11.200 stand up for you if you don't stand up for others who go through this. And, and if there are these

00:12:15.940 frustrations, if we are going to see boiling points coming forward on lockdown policy on Western

00:12:21.220 alienations, it stands to reason that other people will end up in a very similar situation. And

00:12:25.880 you're right, when confronted with that, you've got two choices, you can either go along with the

00:12:29.780 group, or you can stand up. And I think a lot of people might not realize how many people there

00:12:34.600 are like them that are out there and that are even within the caucus. And I think this is especially

00:12:39.640 true for a party that's a relatively new party, a party that also is in a first term majority

00:12:45.800 government, which means you've got a lot of first term MLAs that might not know their own power.

00:12:50.720 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And they have tremendous power. I mean, 87 of us are paid by the taxpayers

00:12:58.100 of Alberta to speak on the behalf of 4.4 million Albertans. And, and the legislature is the

00:13:05.120 opportunity, you know, magnified through the media, like, like true north to get those ideas out. And

00:13:10.920 there's a tremendous amount of power. And that power comes comes from the people. And, you know,

00:13:15.940 just my Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn stuff, since, since I put out my statement, you know,

00:13:22.320 saying that I was going to, you know, be an independent conservative, I was going to be the

00:13:26.460 voice of many Albertans who felt their voices weren't being heard. It's in the thousands that

00:13:31.900 have reached out to me and offered support and ideas. And we're, we're excited about the

00:13:37.820 opportunity going forward. And, you know, I have good relations with with many of my former

00:13:43.760 colleagues. And, and I will always open with when the goal is making Alberta the best and free and

00:13:50.380 prosperous. We all have our hearts in that same thing. So I'm, I'm, I'm optimistic. I'm excited

00:13:56.000 that this will work out better for Albertans. Moving forward, is your plan to continue to sit

00:14:00.920 as an independent? Are you looking at joining the Wildrose Independence Party or some other party? And

00:14:06.000 I guess extending on that, what about the next election? Well, thank you. Thank you very much.

00:14:10.500 First, I'm going to be talking to my family, my wife, and I have three adult sons. Then I'm going

00:14:17.120 to spend as much time as possible talking to my constituency and see their preferences, their

00:14:22.200 ideas, their, their decisions. I'm grateful that the people in WIPA, people in other parties have

00:14:28.660 reached out to me and talked to me, and I'm certainly willing to hear their ideas and, and that

00:14:33.260 kind of thing. But going forward, I'm going to be sitting as an independent, talking to my

00:14:37.680 constituents, hearing what's important. And when it comes to the next election, you know,

00:14:42.220 I'm so grateful that I'm in my 10th year, my third term. Uh, I'm honored to represent Cypress

00:14:47.280 Medicine Hat. And I feel strongly that, that I still have the energy, the ideas and the desire

00:14:52.040 to serve Albertans and to serve Cypress Medicine Hat. So at this point in time, I am, I'm keenly

00:14:56.980 still interested in, uh, in public service and, um, future might be, be a bit, uh, up, up and

00:15:03.920 down and, and topsy-turvy the next little while. So let's see what happens. Newly independent UCP

00:15:08.740 MLA for Cypress Medicine Hat, Drew Barnes. Drew, thanks so much for coming on today.

00:15:13.860 Andrew, thanks for talking to you.

00:15:15.600 Thanks for listening to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:15:17.440 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - May 19, 2021

Ejected UCP MLA Drew Barnes speaks out

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript