Juno News - Ep. 2 ｜ Michelle Rempel Garner ｜ unity, the economy & CPC

00:00:00.000 Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm. Welcome to TrueNorth's Spring Speaker Series. It's my pleasure today

00:00:11.280 to be joined by MP Michelle Rempel-Garner. Michelle is a Member of Parliament for Calgary

00:00:16.520 Nose Hill. She was first elected in 2011 and has served in many roles in the government and in

00:00:22.080 opposition, including Minister of State for Western Economic Diversification, and she was

00:00:26.640 the official opposition critic for immigration, refugees and citizenship. Michelle has been

00:00:31.600 re-elected in every single federal election she's run in, winning by a larger margin each time.

00:00:37.200 She's become one of the strongest voices in Alberta, for Alberta, in the House of Commons,

00:00:41.680 and one of the fiercest and most important critics of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

00:00:46.320 So, without further delay, Michelle, welcome, and thank you so much for joining us at TrueNorth today.

00:00:51.600 MICHELLE REMPEL- Thanks for having me.

00:00:53.600 MICHELLE REMPEL- It's really great to have you. I think we're sort of at this

00:00:57.360 interesting time. Everyone's stuck at home. Everyone's, you know, watching the news and

00:01:01.200 watching everything unfold. And I think it's important to take some time to step back and

00:01:06.960 sort of analyze where we are in the country in 2020. So, we're now in the fifth year of a Trudeau

00:01:14.000 liberal government. Conservatives have been forced into opposition. After spending, you know, 10 years

00:01:19.040 governing the country and doing a pretty good job of it. You know, looking back in retrospect,

00:01:23.280 things seem so good and so easy under the Harper years. But, you know, we've transitioned now,

00:01:28.320 and I think it's really important to talk about conservatism. So, one of the first questions I

00:01:33.200 wanted to ask you, Michelle, is what initially drew you to the Conservative Party and, more broadly,

00:01:39.120 to Conservative ideas and the philosophy of conservatism?

00:01:43.040 MICHELLE REMPEL- Well, I mean, that's such a complex question. But I think, you know,

00:01:49.280 for me, the broadest principle is that there really isn't an example of any jurisdiction or period in

00:01:57.680 the world where massively planned government intervention-based government has given people

00:02:06.400 more freedom over their lives or more prosperity, right? It's quite the opposite. And I think when

00:02:13.760 you look at a lot of the golden age that we've experienced in humanity recently and, you know,

00:02:24.000 recent generations have been because we've figured out how to use markets to solve problems as opposed

00:02:32.960 to planned government. And that's a bit of an oversimplification, but when you start drilling

00:02:39.120 those concepts down to an individual level, it really is about freedom of choice and equality of

00:02:46.880 opportunity. You know, I don't come from a family of wealth. I really, you know, I was basically out

00:02:56.160 on my own when I was 17 years old. And, you know, for me, those were really formative years because

00:03:05.040 I knew that there was there is a role for government and ensuring that, you know, we have social safety

00:03:11.600 nets so that when people are experiencing hard times that they have the opportunity to rebound.

00:03:20.720 But there's also pride in the ability of making something for yourself in an environment where

00:03:28.000 what we're working to in government is removing barriers to equality of opportunity. And, you know,

00:03:33.520 I can give you sort of specific examples and talk to your ear off, but I think that if we fast forward to

00:03:40.160 today, a lot of those principles are being eroded and people really aren't, I think,

00:03:49.840 understanding the consequences of that. And I don't want to put that just on the electorate,

00:03:53.760 it's also on people like me and others to explain those consequences. And it's up to the media, too,

00:04:01.840 to show both sides of, you know, different policies rather than just, you know, sort of one ideology.

00:04:08.480 And I worry, I worry that, you know, especially now that we've like this, this year, for example,

00:04:15.920 with COVID, we, we have a big debt this year, like the deficit is huge. And what happens next?

00:04:25.360 I think those are all questions that you need to have alternative policy lenses to the sort of

00:04:32.400 prevailing liberal school of thought right now. And that's why I'm a conservative. And also,

00:04:37.120 some of those liberal policies have really made it difficult for the people in my community

00:04:43.200 to live and prosper. And, you know, even just being saying, I oppose what the government's doing on

00:04:50.160 certain files, like the energy sector, is why I'm a conservative. So it's complicated, but it's also very

00:05:01.680 simple. And I hope that we don't lose that narrative, especially as we're about to go through, I think,

00:05:10.720 a very difficult time in a global, in a global economic perspective.

00:05:17.440 Well, and I think that's why conservative voices are just so important right now, because I think

00:05:23.120 you're right that the Trudeau government sort of paints a rosy, positive, happy, exuberant face on

00:05:31.200 a government, a central plan government. And really, when you look at coronavirus and the response and

00:05:36.800 the preparation in advance, we learned that really government wasn't very prepared. They didn't really

00:05:42.160 react very well in the first place. They allowed this virus to get to the point where it was spreading

00:05:47.280 and they couldn't control it to the point where they've had to have such a big overreaction, Michelle.

00:05:51.680 And we'll get to, we have questions coming in from club members. We'll get to some

00:05:55.360 who ask specifically about the deficit and how we're going to deal with that. But, you know,

00:05:59.840 it's so important right now to have an opposition force in Ottawa to combat Justin Trudeau and the

00:06:05.840 Liberals to say, well, you know, what about these sort of fundamental building blocks of a society?

00:06:11.360 You know, if you have to shut down 20% of businesses overnight, you know, those businesses

00:06:17.200 don't just turn on the light when you reopen the economy. A lot of them have gone for good. A lot

00:06:23.040 of folks have had to close their door. So what do you think it is that the Conservatives can offer

00:06:30.240 to Canadians in 2020? I know it's not an election year. You just went through an election that probably,

00:06:34.720 you know, went pretty well. I think Conservatives got more votes than any other party, but you didn't

00:06:38.800 get the majority status that you're probably looking for. What is the role of Conservatives,

00:06:43.200 the Conservative Party of Canada in 2020 in this in this really kind of unstable period we find

00:06:48.160 ourselves in? Well, I think you said it yourself there. It's offering an alternative, a strong

00:06:54.960 alternative policy viewpoint to the track that the government's on in every area. You know,

00:07:02.160 that doesn't mean that, for example, we oppose, okay, well, obviously, if the government is shutting

00:07:07.600 down the economy because of a pandemic, that we need, for example, emergency benefits in the short

00:07:13.920 term. But it does mean that, you know, asking reasonable questions like, okay, for at the end

00:07:19.760 of January, the WHO was saying that there was roughly the end of January, there's no human to human

00:07:26.320 transmission of COVID. Well, clearly there was. So why didn't we shut our borders down? What are the

00:07:33.760 benchmarks that the government is going to use in this scenario to reopen the border? What does that

00:07:40.640 mean? And then, you know, just just coming up with policy alternatives from there? You know, I know

00:07:47.200 that there's a lot of people and I see it, you know, in emails to my office called comments and like,

00:07:53.040 oh, well, the Conservative Party, you know, they need to, they need to call a vote of non confidence in

00:07:58.960 the House of Commons this time. But the reality is, the Liberals have a functional majority in the

00:08:04.400 House with the Bloc Québécois and the NDP. So, you know, that what that means functionally is that

00:08:11.520 the Liberal government, like, we can call non confidence votes all we want, we've had confidence

00:08:16.560 votes that the government's been up to hell. So we have to, given that scenario, be offering strong

00:08:23.360 criticism when it's warranted, making it constructive criticism so that the Canadian public say, okay,

00:08:29.520 well, maybe there is a better way of doing this, to when the government's providing something that is

00:08:33.920 not in the best interest of the country. And then also putting out alternative policy visions. Like

00:08:39.200 today, I put out a policy piece on world broadband access. I've been trying to write over the last

00:08:47.440 several months since the election policy pieces, because I think that there should be,

00:08:51.520 you know, some provocative thought to when the status quo is, is, is not working, that is the

00:08:59.280 role of an opposition party is to say status quo isn't working, here's some things that we could

00:09:03.600 do differently, even if they're not prevailing, you know, sort of status quo, bourgeois ideology.

00:09:11.680 So I think that's the value that we can be at and being very firm in that, not having to qualify

00:09:17.680 that what we're doing is okay. This is a vital role in the democracy. And I guess just to close on that,

00:09:28.080 it's also, even for the most ardent liberal partisan, you should be supportive of having a strong

00:09:36.320 opposition right now. I, a strong opposition and it means a vibrant democracy. And if we, you know,

00:09:45.520 allow that like, oh, I shouldn't be saying anything, it's this team Canada, whatever it's a vibrant

00:09:52.560 democracy means an exchange of ideas, you know, in a constructive way. And I think that's the value

00:09:58.640 add we can provide. And of course, stopping terrible legislation as we did with their most recent power

00:10:06.640 grab. But anyway, it's a lot of hard work, and I'm proud to do it.

00:10:11.520 That's great, Michelle. Yeah, a lot of the questions that we got from True North Club members, and you know,

00:10:16.880 I hear the same thing from our supporters online, you know, they're just so sick of Justin Trudeau.

00:10:22.160 And I almost think it's a regional thing, like people, people in Western Canada, I really had a hard time

00:10:26.400 understanding how so many people in Ontario supported Trudeau, because in their mind, it was just, you know,

00:10:33.040 the last four years have been so bad. And particularly for people who work in the natural resource sector,

00:10:38.720 did you find that Michelle that there's is it a regional divide? Is it a class divide between

00:10:43.440 sort of working working class people and white collar workers in downtown Toronto? Or

00:10:47.760 do you think Canada is divided? Or do you think that there's more that's uniting us?

00:10:55.040 I mean, I could give you the rosy version saying that there is more that unites us than divides us. I

00:11:00.480 I would like to say that because I think it is important, as the global context so quickly changes,

00:11:06.720 that we really think about our place in the world and how we can strengthen that. But that would

00:11:12.400 ignore very obvious divisions that are in our country that have been exacerbated by government

00:11:17.520 policy needlessly. I had a very sort of intimate experience with this last year, being a senior

00:11:25.280 member in the party on the campaign trail in the lead up to the election. And then during the election,

00:11:29.600 I was in every corner of the country. And I had the opportunity to directly talk to people on the

00:11:36.080 door in every part of the country. And I think it is actually fair to say that people in, you know,

00:11:43.600 certainly central eastern Canada and in some areas just don't. And I don't want to paint everyone

00:11:49.280 with the same brush, but there's a lot of people who are just like, well, it can't be that bad in

00:11:52.880 Alberta or whatever. You guys will diversify your economy. It's fine. And it's just this lack of

00:11:58.080 understanding of the broader issues that frustrates my community so much because everybody in, you

00:12:04.080 know, in my writing understands this so infinitely. So that there is division there. And because the

00:12:10.640 government hasn't addressed that, you know, you almost ask like, is this happening on purpose? Is

00:12:18.080 this by design? Because like, how could somebody or a government be so ignorant in this and in not 0.96

00:12:23.280 offering solutions or not even addressing the problem? So I think that it's incumbent upon the 0.53

00:12:30.480 prime minister, it's incumbent upon the leadership candidates from my party, and it's incumbent upon

00:12:34.880 every member of parliament, and every Canadian to say, look, if these, these divisions are real,

00:12:41.200 and we have a collective responsibility to address them, not just poo poo them or marginalize people who

00:12:47.280 feel a certain way. Otherwise, you know, you get these really polarized politics that aren't in the

00:12:54.640 best interest of the country. And you get politicians who work in that scenario, because it's the only way

00:12:59.040 that, you know, you can kind of punch above the noise. So I do worry about that. And it's not just,

00:13:06.240 you know, natural resources versus other, it's also just worry about, again, the ability to question dogma

00:13:15.840 in the government right now. It's like, just because Justin Trudeau says something doesn't make it

00:13:20.720 true. It doesn't make it right. And we should, there should be appetite and like demand for

00:13:30.720 constructive criticism of the government. And I worry that that sort of visceral partisanship

00:13:37.440 that we see on both sides prevents that and causes divisions as well, too. But what I hate is when

00:13:44.640 locals are like, well, that's, we don't do that. I mean, we're liberals. And it's clearly not the case.

00:13:51.360 So, yeah, I would say we've got some, some, some work to do to unite our country for sure.

00:13:57.840 But I think it's an endeavor that's worth, worth, worth addressing. But some of the things that we'll

00:14:05.280 need to do to do that are tough, and they're not short term silver bullet fixes. So I'm just doing my best

00:14:12.480 to try and put some thought as to what that looks like, and then hope, you know, hope the Canadians

00:14:17.840 get behind that.

00:14:19.600 That's great. Yeah, I feel like Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is so divisive. And yet, the picture

00:14:25.440 that gets painted of him in the media is sort of, I mean, it's definitely not as bright and rosy as it

00:14:30.080 was at the beginning, Michelle, but they still sort of paint him as this like, affable, sort of strong

00:14:35.600 leader that everyone admires. And it's just not the same as a feeling you get when you talk to

00:14:41.440 constituents. We were in Calgary, just a few months ago, filming a documentary called Crisis in Calgary.

00:14:47.600 And the idea is that if you watch the evening news, what you saw for the election was, you know, angry

00:14:55.040 oil men, you know, anger, the rise of these separatist parties, you know, it just kind of painting

00:15:01.520 it as like a movement of anger. And there was no, there was no underlying compassion or understanding

00:15:08.400 of what people are going through. Like, anger just doesn't come out of nowhere. It's not like,

00:15:12.480 well, these people are bitter because they lost an election. It's like, no, these people have lost

00:15:15.840 their livelihoods and their future. And everything that's made Alberta great over the last 40, 50 years

00:15:22.000 is getting pulled out from under them. And there's nothing they can do about it. I mean, it's so frustrating.

00:15:27.440 And obviously, you know, as representative from Alberta, but I know that you've championed

00:15:32.880 some new initiatives, you put out the Buffalo Declaration, but what do you think the future of

00:15:38.320 Alberta really looks like? What do you think it looks like under Justin Trudeau? And what do you think,

00:15:43.200 you know, is there an alternative vision that we might have for Alberta without a Liberal government?

00:15:48.320 Well, you know, I wrote the Buffalo Declaration, you know, as an Albertan first, because I think that

00:15:59.280 there's just things that need to be said that haven't been said that we gloss over. There are structural

00:16:04.640 issues, there are legitimate sources of anger that, you know, they either get laughed at or poo-pooed,

00:16:12.320 or it's like, oh, well, you guys don't, you don't really feel that way, or that's not legitimate.

00:16:17.920 And I don't know the answer to your question, as in terms of what things look like. I do know one

00:16:25.200 thing, and that's what the people of my province will not accept the status quo. It's just too much,

00:16:31.120 right? And what that response looks like is really in the hands of the leaders at different levels of

00:16:39.280 government. If we are not addressing some of these structural and cultural inequities

00:16:47.760 that exist in our, in our country, as it pertains to Western Canada, we are going, we're just seeing

00:16:53.440 history repeat itself. And I just think people are tired of that. You know, like, I get everything,

00:16:58.720 the response that I get to that question is everything from, I'm just moving, like, I don't

00:17:03.120 want to stay in Canada anymore, too. And that makes me so sad, like people that like really highly skilled

00:17:09.760 professionals that like, you just can't find work. And they're like, I don't want to wait it out,

00:17:14.000 right, to, to people who are just like, I don't, I don't see a political option right now for me.

00:17:20.160 Um, so it's incumbent upon each of us to be offering answers to those questions. I don't, I,

00:17:27.920 I, I have to believe that the federal government gets this and isn't so callous that they're just

00:17:37.840 writing our province off, but their actions speak otherwise. So I don't think it looks great for

00:17:42.880 Alberta under a liberal government. Um, if it like, where, where, where is their plan? Where is their like,

00:17:53.360 positive hope for my province? It's just, it's just like, oh, we're just gonna kill your industry and

00:17:57.600 lead you to pen for yourself. We're also going to continue to harvest money for equalization,

00:18:02.720 right? That's not an acceptable outcome. I think, uh, you know, Premier Kenney has been a

00:18:08.560 pressure relief valve in, in, in certain areas within his jurisdiction on some of this. Uh, and I,

00:18:14.640 you know, I applaud his efforts, but at the federal level, you need to see structural change. Otherwise,

00:18:20.720 it's just, I don't want to see this movie again in 20 years as, you know, my parents did, you know,

00:18:26.800 like the generation of my parents in the eighties. So, um, I would like to see, I mean, I put out,

00:18:34.480 and my colleagues who put the Buffalo Declaration out knowing it was provocative, but sometimes you

00:18:39.040 have to say, say something to get changed. And I hope that it's the first, um, it's seen as a springboard

00:18:51.760 document for constructive change that somebody will get behind and be willing to champion. I

00:18:57.040 know I have a role in that, but I would like to see our leadership candidates talk about it, um,

00:19:03.680 at a bare minimum. I, for me, it's not for the MP. It is not enough for a leadership candidate of the

00:19:09.040 Conservative Party of Canada to say our policy for Alberta is, you know, scrap bill C-69 and C-48

00:19:15.120 importance, but that's not going to change the generational structural issues that we have with

00:19:20.000 our province. And, um, so, so stay tuned, but, um, I will say this, the province isn't going to allow

00:19:28.160 the status quo to continue. And, uh, I would like to have that, that action be in the best interest of

00:19:37.200 Canada and all of our residents and, and managed in a productive, prosperous way, but something will

00:19:45.520 happen. Yeah. I mean, it kind of goes without saying that if it was another province in Canada,

00:19:50.720 it just never would be tolerated. Like that they would never demonize the auto industry in Ontario.

00:19:55.840 They would never demonize, you know, uh, SNC Lavalin in Quebec or any Quebec industry, the way that they

00:20:02.000 do with the energy industry in Alberta. And they, they, they, the, the, the press and the, and the,

00:20:06.000 and the sort of elites in this country would never put up with say a conservative government

00:20:10.800 treating Quebec the way that Justin Trudeau is treating Alberta. So I, I definitely applaud those

00:20:16.240 efforts. And I want to jump over Michelle. We, we have a club member program at True North. So if you

00:20:21.760 join one of our clubs, you get special access to true north content. And one of the perks you get

00:20:26.960 is you get to ask people like Michelle Rumpel Garner questions. So we have some questions from club

00:20:31.360 members that I'd like to ask you were just speaking about the conservative leadership, um,

00:20:35.760 party. And we had a couple of questions from that. So I'm just going to read one.

00:20:38.560 I will say, I just, I will qualify that any Canadian can ask me questions, no club membership

00:20:45.200 required. So I have to say that I fully have compliance with the Accountability Act, but

00:20:51.920 Right, right. Michelle is a, Michelle is a, is a civil servant and a, and a representative, but,

00:20:57.520 but for the purpose of this interview, Michelle, uh, we took questions from those club members. So

00:21:01.680 this one comes from Carol. She says, Michelle, I'm concerned about the lineup of folks running

00:21:05.840 for conservative leadership. I find that I can't really get behind any of them. I have actually

00:21:10.400 quit donating to the party, but I continue to be a member of the party. Perhaps you can tell us why

00:21:15.040 Peter McKay seems to be the front runner. Um, when to me, he doesn't look really look like a leader.

00:21:19.520 So that's a little bit of a critical question, but what, what, what is your take? Do you think that,

00:21:23.360 that these candidates are just building up steam or, or do you think that there's a front runner at this

00:21:27.600 point? I don't know. Um, I, I like, I mean, I don't have access to, you know, internal foals and

00:21:36.480 all of those sorts of things. Um, so I, I, I, I actually don't, I couldn't answer that

00:21:43.840 with any level of veracity. I, here's what I can say is what I want in a leader of the party. I want

00:21:50.480 someone who is bold and strong and is unapologetic in putting forward a vision for the country that

00:22:00.880 is, is significantly different from what the liberals are doing right now. I, uh, that is

00:22:07.840 transformative and not transactional. Um, that's what I want in a leader. I want somebody who,

00:22:15.440 you know, when I go out and campaign that I'm like, yes, this here's some, here's somebody that I know

00:22:22.480 is unafraid of, of, of the status quo or challenging status quo, who has a deep rooted sense of what they

00:22:33.280 want the country to look like in terms of equality of opportunity, of, of prosperity, of Canada's place

00:22:40.800 in the world and then goes for it, uh, and seeks a mandate from the Canadian people that boldly

00:22:48.160 inspires people to get behind them. That's what I want. I, and I think that's what a lot of members

00:22:53.440 want. So, you know, if my colleagues are watching this from the leadership race, I just encourage them

00:22:59.360 to not be safe. Uh, you know, safety doesn't, you know, safety doesn't guarantee a loss and it

00:23:06.560 doesn't guarantee a win, but bold enough to put your chips down. Even if you lose, you've stood for

00:23:13.280 something. And I think that that is important for our party at this juncture and its history and in

00:23:20.960 at this juncture of our country's history, we need an alternative vision that is strong,

00:23:28.320 that clearly contrasts from where Trudeau's at. So, you know, in terms of how I've been

00:23:33.360 supporting myself, I've been trying to, to put out that type of policy in the hopes that it inspires

00:23:40.960 some of my colleagues to steal those ideas or to fight with them or to, you know, just to have a

00:23:47.440 debate, um, for the soul of who we are as a party. And, um, I guess we'll see, we'll see what, what pans out

00:23:56.400 in the next couple of months. Well, I think that's a great answer. I think that so many, so many

00:24:00.640 conservatives and small C conservatives out there, you know, we, we want to see our ideas defended.

00:24:05.360 We want to see, you know, uh, my next question is about the state of journalism in Canada. You know,

00:24:10.400 so many times I feel like the media is unfair. Journalists are being unfair to conservatives.

00:24:14.400 And I just want just for once, Michelle, to see a conservative fight back against the journalists

00:24:19.040 that's being unfair. So the next, the next question comes from Lauren and Donna, and this is,

00:24:25.120 this is the question. I'll read it out, Michelle. It says,

00:24:27.040 In my city, it's impossible to listen to a radio station, read a newspaper or watch mainstream

00:24:32.080 newscasts that is not 95% against the conservative party and what it stands for. In the next election,

00:24:37.600 what will you and other members do to fight this? Journalism today is just a bunch of poorly trained

00:24:42.480 people who use their position to voice their own opinions. And worst of all, most of the time,

00:24:46.640 they get the facts right. Thank you, Michelle, and keep up the good work.

00:24:49.680 Um, okay. So that's, uh, that's a lot. I would say this. I, I do know that there are good people

00:24:58.800 on the profession who, uh, who approach issues from a very balanced take. Um, but I will say this,

00:25:07.680 I, and I've noted, this is just my own sort of anecdotal experience since becoming a member of

00:25:12.880 parliament, how we consume information has dramatically changed, right? I mean, newspapers,

00:25:20.560 there's not really a thing, right? But getting a newspaper article or an article on a social media

00:25:26.880 platform is right. Um, and I think what's happened is as advertising revenue has decreased in that old

00:25:35.440 world. Um, and as traditional media outlets have sort of failed to, to adapt quickly and the metric

00:25:44.400 becomes click throughs and, and likes and all of these sorts of things in terms of driving ads,

00:25:50.320 advertising revenue, there's become more of like a propensity where you see a lot more opinion

00:25:55.280 and a lot more, um, commentary as opposed to what I would consider as like either, you know,

00:26:00.960 journalism, investigative journalism. And I think that we can't conflate those two things. Um,

00:26:07.040 opinion is opinion. Opinion is anybody can be a columnist. Um, and there's a role for that. I'm

00:26:16.400 not saying that there isn't, but that other side of it, I think has really decreased in the amount of

00:26:22.480 content that we see. Uh, and I think that's fair. I don't, you know, I, I don't want to comment on

00:26:27.840 quantifying bias and all of these sorts of things, but I do have a concern that what the government

00:26:33.840 has done with this bailout fund that they have and perpetuating that bailout fund is that they're

00:26:39.040 not addressing this issue, right? They're actually, um, they, they could be perpetuating bias by saying

00:26:47.360 that the government gets to select who, who gets money to be quote unquote journalists, or as this,

00:26:53.840 uh, you know, Yates report, this, this report that the government commission that said that,

00:26:58.160 you know, they, they, they, the government need to verify who, who journalists are, what constitutes media.

00:27:04.880 That is, that is beyond the pale. So, um, I think that what's, what's happening is very organic.

00:27:12.320 It's, um, old platforms are dying and really it's governments that are propping them up. I think

00:27:19.920 people are looking for content where they consume it. And I mean, like, you know, here, you're an

00:27:26.880 example of this, right? Um, it's really going to be incumbent upon the public to demand actual

00:27:33.600 journalistic content and not just opinion. And there's no government program or regulation or law

00:27:39.120 that is going to do that. So in terms of what I'm fighting for, you know, when it comes to this,

00:27:44.960 I've always fought against the media bailout. I, I regularly, like, I'll, I'll be the first one to,

00:27:51.600 to, to challenge somebody who does not put out a balanced story and purports that it's like just

00:27:56.800 journalism when it's opinion. I've, I've done that. Um, and I think it's, it's, we are long overdue as

00:28:03.200 a country to say, well, what is the role of like, maybe the role of government in funding these

00:28:07.840 organizations need to be looked at with a very, you know, skeptical eye, given that the operating

00:28:15.840 landscape has changed. So, um, I think change is necessary and I would like to see change.

00:28:22.400 But I also don't think that we have to vilify a profession in doing it. We just have to demand

00:28:27.360 better. That's a great point, Michelle. One of my concerns is that we say, you know, we, we need to

00:28:32.880 fix this problem, but the government led solution, like you said, with the bailout, it makes it worse

00:28:37.760 because I'll give you an example for now, we have this situation where Justin Trudeau gives a daily

00:28:43.120 press conference to, to a hand selected number of journalists. Um, he says that this is a replacement

00:28:48.160 for parliament. So you, we're not even getting the actual, you know, democracy that we're supposed to

00:28:52.640 have, but instead we have these, these, these press conferences, which are pretty much political

00:28:56.720 theater. We, we did an analysis at TrueNorth that found that about 22% of all questions asked came from

00:29:02.000 one outlet, the CDC, which is government funded. Um, you know, as far as independent outlets, the

00:29:08.320 prime minister just doesn't call on them. So he, he gets to choose his office gets to choose who asks him

00:29:13.440 questions. They come from a highly vetted, you know, small circle. It's, it's so hard for upstart, you know,

00:29:19.200 startups to come in and challenge these big establishment organizations. And then, and then within

00:29:24.320 those establishment organizations, I think this is the point that, um, that, uh, that we got in that

00:29:30.160 question, um, which, which is that there's an embedded bias. So sometimes you see an article

00:29:35.680 that's called news. It's called straight reporting. It's not an opinion piece, but there's an obvious

00:29:40.480 slant in the way that they, you know, quote liberal activists, quote liberal government, and then don't

00:29:45.520 bother to provide the other side of the story. Or if they do, it's, you know, one quick line that sort of

00:29:50.240 demonizes conservatives. So I feel like the problem is, is embedded in, and I don't know, I don't know what the

00:29:55.680 solution is, like you said, because I don't think it's a government led solution. I think it's more

00:29:59.280 of a grassroots solution that the market kind of sorted out, but it's so hard when it's not,

00:30:04.160 it's not an even playing field. I agree with you. Like, I mean, what that scenario is ridiculous.

00:30:10.880 I mean, parliament is suspended and he is completely controlling, uh, who questions him and he, he should

00:30:19.120 be open to receiving critical questions and tough questions. Um, so I think that we have to ensure

00:30:28.800 that the government that we're asking for is the Canadian public includes a government that is open

00:30:34.400 to scrutiny. I mean, can you imagine if Stephen Harper had done any of this? Like, like he, first of all,

00:30:41.120 he wouldn't have. But second of all, it's just like, it's just so blatant. It's, it's almost audacious

00:30:47.200 that. And I, I believe it's Canadians again, even if you're a dyed in the wool liberal voter,

00:30:52.000 you should be like, Oh, this isn't right. I don't like this because it erodes our democratic systems

00:30:57.120 and we shouldn't normalize the erosion of democracy. And that's what I do think is happening here.

00:31:02.960 Yeah. I think you raised a good point. It's always important to remember, even when your party's in

00:31:06.960 power and they're doing things, you should remember, like, would I like it if the other party

00:31:10.560 was doing this? Like what, how would I feel? And I think liberals would be wise to consider that.

00:31:15.120 There's a question from Carol, one of our True North members about the state of our democracy.

00:31:19.600 So we're talking about that. Carol says, how can we put some real checks and balances

00:31:23.920 on the prime minister to prevent him being such a loose cannon in destroying our, our democracy?

00:31:29.520 Elections can't be the only way to keep our democracy, a democracy. And I think this sort of

00:31:35.120 goes in line with another question we had about the petition that you recently sponsored because Trudeau

00:31:40.640 issued an order in council to confiscate thousands of legally owned firearms and use

00:31:45.040 a petition that called that undemocratic. So how can we work to restore a greater sense of

00:31:52.000 accountability and, and a feeling like, you know, Canadians voices matter in this country, Michelle?

00:31:59.280 I mean, I mean, like that's the job of the prime minister, right? And I think that Canadians who are

00:32:05.440 voting for them, they shouldn't be voting for him, you know, and enabling that behavior. I mean,

00:32:12.080 somebody who votes for Justin Trudeau, I'm putting that behavior on them, because they're saying,

00:32:16.880 I'm okay with that. I'm okay with SMC Lovlin. I'm okay with, you know, blackface. I'm okay with 1.00

00:32:26.000 how he's comporting himself right now. Now, I will say that opposition parties have to give Canadians a

00:32:33.040 reason to vote for them as well. But, you know, that it's my job to hold him to account with every

00:32:40.000 tool that I have. And I do that as best that I can. But every Canadian has to, you know, outline

00:32:48.000 what, what they want. And if the Canadian public says, I want him, then, you know, that's what we got.

00:32:56.240 That's what we got. I will, I'm going to sort of just, just say something as well. Can't let the NDP

00:33:01.760 and the block get off the hook here. I often find it's like, the narrative right now is like, well,

00:33:06.400 how can we put limits on Justin Trudeau? Well, the NDP and the block are voting with them on virtually

00:33:12.320 everything, right, that matters. And that's a problem. Like, you know, you saw something that

00:33:20.960 happened in our committee, the block supported, it was around NAFTA, and I can't remember what it was.

00:33:26.720 And you just said, Well, why did you pop the government up there? Like, it's,

00:33:32.080 like, you know, if we're in a minority parliament, you think that we should be working together as

00:33:38.720 opposition parties, not, we're going to disagree on policy, but we shouldn't disagree on holding

00:33:43.280 the government to account. The other thing is, I think that, you know, I'm now several years into my

00:33:49.680 parliamentary career. It's the role of every member to also ensure that their political party is doing,

00:33:57.840 does the right thing. And I mean, I, I have challenged my party publicly on things before,

00:34:03.200 I try and work internally as much as I can, obviously, but, you know, there, there comes a

00:34:08.800 point where you have to say, okay, well, what's my responsibility here to get my party in the right

00:34:13.840 direction? And I look at the, the Liberal members that are in there, as much as I look at the block

00:34:19.600 and the NDP, it's like, how can you vote for some of this stuff? The people in the last parliament,

00:34:25.600 that, like, just like that justice committee on Jody Wilson-Raybould, the members on there, 0.89

00:34:30.800 disgusting, you know, like, oh, God. So it's a complicated question.

00:34:36.800 Didn't seem like they really cared about justice. They cared more about covering liberal corruption.

00:34:43.040 So, so it's like, it's not something like, I mean, long answer to the question is, it's not something

00:34:47.680 that's like, you can just wave a magic wand and legislate morality or, you know, ethics in government.

00:34:53.680 It's got to be something the public actively demands. And if the public says, sends a signal to

00:35:01.760 the prime minister that this is okay, then he'll continue that behavior. But I guarantee you, if the

00:35:06.320 public said, especially his voting base, we're not okay with this, then he would change. So,

00:35:12.400 obviously, it's my job to scrutinize the government to raise, put a magnifying glass on these issues,

00:35:19.200 raise attention to them, fight them. There's also every Canadian job as well, too. So.

00:35:24.240 Oh, yeah, I hope. Yeah, well, I think, Michelle, I think people who are watching this interview are

00:35:31.680 some of the most engaged Canadians. And so they, you know, they're the kinds of people that go on and

00:35:36.320 sign petitions and watch Question Period and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, so hopefully that gives you

00:35:41.520 some hope. We have a bunch of questions about the state of public finances. So the first one comes

00:35:45.520 from Erwin, who says, with the mess we were placed in due to the massive overspending and the handcuffing

00:35:51.120 of small businesses during this pandemic, what would the CPC do to dig us out of this bottomless pit

00:35:57.200 we find ourselves in? Yeah, I mean, this is a question that we're actively seized with right now.

00:36:03.680 First of all, nobody knows exactly what the economic recovery is going to look like because this has

00:36:12.560 been such a big sort of reordering event, right? From many different perspectives, like there's some

00:36:19.040 people who some economists argue that as soon as people are allowed out of their house, it's just

00:36:24.240 going to be a V-shaped recovery and everything's going to kind of go back to normal. I'm not so sure

00:36:28.880 about that from the perspective of, you know, I wonder about the retail sector, tourism, hospitality,

00:36:36.960 even commercial real estate. I think that how we've worked, how we work has like actually changed quite

00:36:43.360 a bit in the last few weeks. And I think that the public health implications of the virus are going to

00:36:50.400 be felt for some time to come. So once we understand what that looks like, and once we put policy around

00:36:58.000 it to ensure that that recovery is as robust as possible, we can start talking about government

00:37:03.360 revenue. I will say this, at the same time, we also have to very clearly say that this level of

00:37:09.360 government spending is unsustainable, and we have been doing that as a party. I am working with colleagues on

00:37:18.640 significant policy pieces to deal with that exact question. I think there are so many different

00:37:27.120 aspects of it in terms of how we incent people to go back to work in safe conditions, how we look for

00:37:37.040 economic growth opportunities, but at the same time, clearly saying the level of spending that we have

00:37:44.080 right now is not sustainable. So, you know, you've seen my party leaders starting to put some narrative

00:37:50.880 out on this, my colleague Pierre Polyev, our finance critic, is caving some runway on that, and I'm doing the same

00:37:56.560 thing as well. But again, I would also say that for party members who are asking that question, go to our

00:38:03.200 leadership candidates and ask them that. You can also go onto my website and see all the work that

00:38:08.560 I've been doing with regard to this question in the industry portfolio. It's substantive, but I do think

00:38:15.360 that we will have a robust alternative for the Liberals as we start understanding what the economic

00:38:22.640 recovery is going to look like in terms of base level, like when the timing for real is happening

00:38:28.720 across the country. Well, let's hope that happens sooner rather than later, Michelle, because I have

00:38:33.760 another question here. The Parliamentary Budget Office is predicting based on Trudeau's promises

00:38:39.280 and announcements that the federal deficit in 2020-2021 will be close to $252 billion. And that's just what

00:38:48.240 we've spent so far. So if this lockdown continues, who knows? But the question is, how would we possibly

00:38:56.000 be able to borrow that much money? And how will we ever pay it back? Will the government have to resort

00:39:00.880 to printing money? Do we risk another situation like we saw in the 90s where Canada almost defaults

00:39:06.880 on its debt? How scary is that financial cliff? Is it something you think we can overcome or something

00:39:11.840 needs immediate action? It needs immediate action. You know, something I should have said in the last,

00:39:18.320 in the last answer, the last question was, in late March, I put out a piece. And I mean,

00:39:23.920 this is several weeks ago now saying how do we safely reopen the economy in light of this virus. And

00:39:32.720 it was a substantive piece of policy that basically said, mass lockdowns are not sustainable in any way,

00:39:39.120 shape or form. So how are we coming up with safe working environments, testing, ensuring that we

00:39:45.120 have adequate healthcare capacity? And I think, you know, I have to give the provincial governments a

00:39:50.320 lot of credit because they've been dealing with those questions about how to manage healthcare

00:39:55.280 capacity, working towards the therapeutics, all of these sorts of things. So I think that that's in the

00:40:02.960 short term, where we have to focus our efforts to say, like, look, mass lockdown is not a sustainable

00:40:09.040 public policy option. So what are the alternatives? I put some thoughts out on that. Many provincial

00:40:17.440 governments are doing this in other jurisdictions around the world, too. And then from there, it's

00:40:23.840 what worries me is that, and I'm not saying the Prime Minister has done this, but there are some,

00:40:30.160 you know, opinion articles that seem like, well, maybe we should just turn the CERB into the Canadian

00:40:36.160 Emergency Response Benefit into a permanent program, regardless of the status of the virus. And I'm

00:40:40.880 going, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's a big program there. That's a lot of debt. So also, I think it's

00:40:48.480 important for us to say, our number one goal, obviously, right now is keep people safe and healthy.

00:40:55.680 We also have a dual responsibility of saying, how do we get people back to work? How do we allow small

00:41:00.960 businesses to open? In the context of safety, of course, but this scenario can't continue forever.

00:41:09.760 And then I think, you know, your reader's question really underscored is that this is not sustainable.

00:41:19.920 It is not acceptable to be running these deficits. If it's, you can't, like, we will be paying for

00:41:25.200 this. The figure I saw was so far, the government's already added another $10,000 worth of debt for

00:41:32.480 every Canadian. And that's insane. Including my one-year-old son. So it gives future generations 0.97

00:41:40.800 an undue burden, I think. And just briefly as well, the basics, the federal government has

00:41:48.720 to table a budget. He was asked, I think it was yesterday, when are you going to table a budget?

00:41:53.200 And he's like, well, I'm not sure. We don't know. How can you even borrow money if there isn't a,

00:41:58.720 like, who's going to lend you money at favorable rates if you don't have a financial plan for the

00:42:02.560 country? So in the short term, we also have to pressure the government to ensure that there's

00:42:08.560 accountability in parliament and that they are tabling a budget or a fiscal update.

00:42:13.680 You mentioned that the lockdowns are unsustainable. I know a lot of people are feeling

00:42:18.160 like a little stir crazy. They want to get out and work. It's really young people, I think, 1.00

00:42:21.840 that, you know, they just graduated and they want to get out there and get some experience.

00:42:26.800 What we're also seeing is really what I see is like an overzealous response by local

00:42:33.040 officials, bylaw officers, sometimes police. So one of our readers also asks,

00:42:38.320 why won't the Conservative Party go to bat for Canadians who have been severely chastised

00:42:43.200 by municipalities and given large fines or penalties undeservedly just for going outside?

00:42:49.760 What are your thoughts about Conservatives going to bat for some of these? I mean,

00:42:52.960 we've seen crazy stories, Michelle, a guy eating a burrito in a park in Calgary gets a $1,200 fine,

00:42:59.600 a family rollerblading here in Toronto gets a fine, $800. I mean, it's ridiculous. 0.81

00:43:04.880 How I've always dealt with issues that are in other levels of government is by keeping an open

00:43:14.800 door policy with the officials from those levels of government in my riding. So for example, my riding

00:43:20.880 touches on three city wards in Calgary and five provincial riding. So I'm always in touch with my

00:43:29.760 colleagues at the provincial government, at the municipal government. And when I see, you know,

00:43:34.400 things happen, my first response is to go to them and say, like, come on, this is like, I'm getting

00:43:40.640 heat, like, think about this, right? And then it's up to them to respond and say, like, why is this

00:43:47.840 happening? I think that there's a lot of Canadians that are demanding consistent standards that makes,

00:43:54.640 that are common sense for distancing. And we are seeing governments move on this. I just,

00:44:02.400 you know, I share frustration on that. But I have seen movements in the last few days as Canadians

00:44:10.320 have just started to say, like, okay, this is ridiculous. I will say this, I think it is important.

00:44:16.000 We don't know. There's so many things that people say they know about this virus. But the reality is,

00:44:22.320 we really don't know. And I want to make sure that as medical researchers, especially in our country,

00:44:31.360 are doing research on the virus and coming up with the data that we need to inform long term public

00:44:39.680 health responses, that people are just using caution and common sense. You know, wearing masks,

00:44:49.680 homemade masks, I can't believe it took us so long to say that that was helpful.

00:44:55.040 Obeying the rules that, you know, especially provincial governments have outlined. And then,

00:45:00.080 you know, taking those, taking those guidelines that are out there, even if they seem ridiculous, 0.81

00:45:05.200 being cognizant of them, and then if they are ridiculous, raising them in the public,

00:45:09.120 as many people have been doing, and I think that's how we're changing. Nobody's going to be

00:45:13.120 perfect on this, because we haven't had a pandemic in some time, thankfully. And I would also say that

00:45:19.360 it's going to be really important for us as legislators to make sure that we have a responsive

00:45:23.520 place so that this doesn't happen again, that we aren't caught flat footed, that we are, you know,

00:45:29.040 we're absolutely prepared the next time something like this happens, and that Canadians have to go through

00:45:34.720 this again.

00:45:36.320 Well, absolutely, Michelle. I think Canadians are lucky to have someone like you in the federal

00:45:40.320 government keeping an eye on things for us and, you know, making sure that the Liberals don't get

00:45:44.640 away with too much. So thank you so much for all the work you do on a daily basis. And also,

00:45:49.520 thank you for joining True North Speaker Series. Hopefully, one day we can do it in person once all

00:45:53.600 these crazy lockdowns and pandemic ends. Yeah, my best to your listeners, and thanks to them for,

00:46:00.960 you know, just being really, to all Canadians, for being generally good and decent people during a very

00:46:07.680 difficult time. So thank you to them, and I'm always available. Great. Thank you so much, Michelle.

00:46:14.000 It's been a pleasure. Thanks.

Juno News - May 12, 2020

Ep. 2 ｜ Michelle Rempel Garner ｜ unity, the economy & CPC

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