Juno News - October 22, 2020


Everything's a Confidence Motion


Episode Stats

Length

41 minutes

Words per Minute

173.68118

Word Count

7,230

Sentence Count

322

Misogynist Sentences

3

Hate Speech Sentences

9


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:06.700 This is The Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:12.900 Coming up, the NDP sells out to the Liberals for nothing in return.
00:00:17.440 Should air passengers get refunds and carbon taxes, do they work?
00:00:23.700 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:30.000 Well, crisis averted for now.
00:00:33.060 Canadians not heading back to the polls as the Liberals succeed in a confidence motion of sorts.
00:00:40.400 Welcome to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:00:42.280 It is Thursday, October 22nd, 2020.
00:00:45.980 And yes, the Liberals have decided just to make everything a confidence motion now.
00:00:49.920 And it's a great strategy, really, because it means that if the Liberals think they're going to lose a vote,
00:00:56.400 they just say it's a confidence motion.
00:00:58.340 And then all of a sudden, the backbone-less NDP will have to go and side with the Liberals
00:01:04.260 because the NDP, at all costs, wants to avoid another election.
00:01:08.220 That seems to be how we can kind of analyze and parse what happened this past week.
00:01:13.100 The Conservatives were trying to create an anti-corruption committee,
00:01:17.180 a committee that would consolidate the efforts that are underway with health and ethics and finance,
00:01:22.980 and make one singular committee that would actually take aim at Justin Trudeau's spending
00:01:28.140 and take aim at the government's track record on things
00:01:31.560 and also the numerous ethical breaches that have happened under Justin Trudeau's watch.
00:01:37.440 And the rationale for this, and it was political posturing, of course,
00:01:41.220 but the rationale for this is that it takes it off the plate of all of these other committees
00:01:45.180 that have important work to do
00:01:47.000 and creates a new committee that can be just focused on exploring Justin Trudeau's ethical lapses.
00:01:52.820 What a great idea.
00:01:53.520 I think it's actually fantastic.
00:01:55.420 And Justin Trudeau does not clearly,
00:01:58.200 which is why the Liberals not only fought it,
00:02:00.880 but used the only tool they could think of
00:02:03.500 to make sure the committee would never get off the ground
00:02:07.180 because they don't want anyone poking around.
00:02:09.000 The Liberals don't want anyone answering the questions that this committee would be asking.
00:02:14.200 So the Liberals say it's now a confidence motion.
00:02:17.740 They can just kind of say that.
00:02:20.400 It doesn't need to be true,
00:02:22.100 but it also means then that the NDP is forced to just go along with it
00:02:27.460 because you may remember the New Democrats have already kind of decided
00:02:30.620 they're going to get in bed with the Liberals.
00:02:32.480 They backed the throne speech.
00:02:34.200 There was that one interview,
00:02:35.160 and I'm going to keep referencing it over and over again,
00:02:37.260 in which Jagmeet Singh said he wasn't ruling out,
00:02:40.540 potentially propping up the Liberals for the next three years.
00:02:45.140 And the Liberals have now learned that this trick works.
00:02:49.140 The Liberals have now learned that they can just do this.
00:02:51.180 If they think they're going to lose a vote,
00:02:53.180 just say it's a confidence vote,
00:02:54.940 and all of a sudden, boom, the NDP will be on their side.
00:02:58.840 There's a round two coming up.
00:03:00.620 This week, the debate is happening.
00:03:02.860 I don't think the vote's until Monday of next week,
00:03:05.080 but another Opposition Day motion from the Conservatives
00:03:08.320 that would basically do something very similar,
00:03:10.980 but specifically on the health file.
00:03:13.240 So a health committee that, again,
00:03:15.300 the Liberals are going to say is a confidence motion,
00:03:18.280 thus will force the NDP to support it.
00:03:21.540 Now, this particular motion is interesting,
00:03:24.360 and this is going to be one to watch
00:03:25.960 because the NDP had actually backed this motion in committee
00:03:30.100 when Michelle Rempel-Garner introduced it
00:03:32.680 on the health committee a little while ago.
00:03:34.760 And at the time, the Liberals have said,
00:03:36.140 oh, this is just such a massive motion.
00:03:37.800 We need time to go through it and give us a few days,
00:03:41.240 give us a little while.
00:03:42.340 But the NDP supported it.
00:03:44.760 The NDP supported it.
00:03:46.320 And this is a very important part of this.
00:03:48.800 And if the NDP opposes it in the House of Commons,
00:03:53.180 again, supporting in committee
00:03:54.400 doesn't mean you have to support it in the House.
00:03:56.180 If they supported it in committee
00:03:57.840 and opposed it in the House of Commons,
00:04:00.340 it will prove that they have no consistency whatsoever,
00:04:04.340 that they have no grounding in what they actually believe,
00:04:07.460 that they are simply just trying to prop the Liberals up.
00:04:11.420 And there are myriad theories for why this is the case.
00:04:14.620 The prevailing one, certainly in my circles,
00:04:17.060 is that the NDP simply doesn't have the money
00:04:19.360 to run an election.
00:04:20.740 They had a poor showing in the last election.
00:04:24.320 They kind of thought they won,
00:04:25.320 like Jagmeet Singh was thrilled about his performance,
00:04:27.980 even though the NDP became the fourth party.
00:04:30.860 But the NDP just doesn't have the money
00:04:32.860 to run a full-fledged national election.
00:04:35.380 Now, the irony is that it's never going to be cheaper
00:04:38.360 than it is now to run an election
00:04:40.540 because you know that it's not going to involve
00:04:43.120 as much travel,
00:04:44.120 which is one of the most prohibitive costs
00:04:45.740 of national campaigns.
00:04:47.420 It's gonna be a very virtual, very Zoom-oriented.
00:04:51.040 It's going to be a pretty bare-bones campaign,
00:04:53.760 and probably a short campaign
00:04:55.460 if we were to have an election right now.
00:04:57.620 But the irony is that people are so used
00:05:00.140 to the old way of doing things,
00:05:01.940 they don't realize that, hey,
00:05:03.040 that doesn't need to be a prohibitive factor right now.
00:05:06.440 But this confidence vote
00:05:08.400 that could be coming up next week
00:05:10.400 is an interesting one
00:05:11.400 because the Liberals were saying that,
00:05:13.620 oh, there's too much information
00:05:14.900 that would be required
00:05:16.020 because the bill or the committee
00:05:18.140 would basically have the government
00:05:20.160 turn over memos, emails, documents,
00:05:23.540 notes, or other records
00:05:24.760 from the Prime Minister's office,
00:05:26.380 the Privy Council office,
00:05:27.600 various ministers' offices and departments,
00:05:29.920 and the Public Health Agency of Canada
00:05:31.880 related to pandemic plans,
00:05:33.620 the WHO,
00:05:34.900 purchase of personal protective equipment,
00:05:37.500 and so on.
00:05:39.060 And it's basically a supercharged
00:05:41.340 Access to Information Act.
00:05:42.840 That's the best way,
00:05:43.960 or Access to Information Request.
00:05:45.440 That's the best way of kind of looking
00:05:47.260 at what this is.
00:05:48.280 And the government's saying,
00:05:49.220 oh, we don't have time to do that
00:05:50.340 because we're focusing on the pandemic.
00:05:52.240 So they're, again, going to say
00:05:54.740 that this committee would just be
00:05:57.440 too disruptive to the work of the government,
00:05:59.500 ergo, it would be a confidence motion.
00:06:01.960 That's the most likely path forward.
00:06:05.160 So here's the thing, though.
00:06:06.780 The NDP couldn't even own
00:06:09.200 the decision it made yesterday.
00:06:11.360 I don't know if you saw this.
00:06:12.180 Jagmeet Singh did a press conference
00:06:13.640 before the vote,
00:06:15.240 and he wouldn't even give a straight answer
00:06:17.500 on what his party would do.
00:06:19.260 He had said that he was going to vote
00:06:20.780 against an election,
00:06:22.100 but wouldn't really say
00:06:24.420 what he was going to vote for.
00:06:26.300 Were they going to abstain or stick around?
00:06:28.160 And he gave this really bizarre line
00:06:29.960 when asked what that means.
00:06:31.680 He said, you'll find out the answer
00:06:33.920 to that very soon.
00:06:35.500 Here's the clip.
00:06:37.160 So earlier you were asked
00:06:38.220 if your caucus is going to abstain
00:06:39.460 or vote against the conservative motion.
00:06:41.000 We're kind of vague on that.
00:06:41.680 If you simply abstain,
00:06:42.560 there's still a chance the government
00:06:43.320 could fall given the numbers in the House.
00:06:44.760 Can you offer more clarity now?
00:06:45.740 Are you going to vote against
00:06:46.320 the conservative motion
00:06:46.940 or is your party going to abstain?
00:06:48.720 You'll find out the answer to that
00:06:49.680 very soon, just in a couple hours.
00:06:50.900 But I can tell you again
00:06:51.680 that we are not looking for,
00:06:53.540 we are not going to give the prime minister
00:06:54.440 an excuse to go to an election.
00:06:55.180 He's looking for an election.
00:06:56.000 We're not going to give that to him.
00:06:56.900 So it's almost like he doesn't even know.
00:06:58.520 Like he's trying to give himself
00:06:59.420 a little wiggle room
00:07:00.240 so that if he changes his mind
00:07:01.780 or if his caucus revolts,
00:07:03.000 he's got time.
00:07:04.120 And here's the thing,
00:07:05.060 and I say this to the conservatives
00:07:06.380 as well as to the NDP.
00:07:08.080 If you think the liberal government right now,
00:07:10.580 the Justin Trudeau government
00:07:11.600 is so terrible,
00:07:12.480 if you think it's running things illegally,
00:07:15.100 it's in violation of ethics laws,
00:07:17.000 it's not accountable,
00:07:18.180 it's doing things wrong,
00:07:19.600 it's endangering Canadian lives
00:07:21.160 and livelihoods,
00:07:22.080 why wouldn't you want an election?
00:07:24.580 Because I do feel that the conservatives
00:07:26.700 are in many cases
00:07:27.720 trying to play both sides of this.
00:07:29.160 They're trying to say,
00:07:29.880 this guy's terrible,
00:07:31.000 he's got to go,
00:07:31.660 we're going to vote against him
00:07:32.580 and oppose him at every step.
00:07:33.880 But then they're also,
00:07:34.820 on the other hand,
00:07:35.300 saying, oh, we're not talking
00:07:36.400 about an election.
00:07:37.380 Oh, no, no, no,
00:07:37.900 it's only Justin Trudeau
00:07:39.160 that's talking about an election.
00:07:40.160 We don't want that.
00:07:41.660 Whereas I'm like, just own it.
00:07:43.260 And I get that they don't want to look like
00:07:45.220 they are just wanting to send people
00:07:47.200 to the polls in a pandemic,
00:07:48.700 but the pandemic excuse
00:07:50.320 for not wanting an election is over now.
00:07:54.000 It's been long enough.
00:07:55.740 We will be coming up in January
00:07:58.140 or I guess March,
00:07:59.280 if we want to go with
00:08:00.020 when Canadians started getting locked down.
00:08:02.120 We'll be coming up in March
00:08:03.360 on a full year
00:08:04.540 that we've been in this world.
00:08:06.180 Already, it is more than a year
00:08:08.060 after last year's election.
00:08:10.420 When Canadians are looking at the fact
00:08:13.200 that there's an election in BC,
00:08:14.820 there's an election in Saskatchewan,
00:08:16.740 there's an election in New Brunswick,
00:08:18.540 and I realize these aren't
00:08:19.520 the largest provinces in Canada,
00:08:21.540 but when three of Canada's provinces
00:08:23.520 can have elections without issue,
00:08:25.620 we cannot use the pandemic
00:08:27.540 as an excuse to not go to the polls,
00:08:30.640 especially when they talk
00:08:31.660 about this going on indefinitely.
00:08:33.680 And oh, as we know,
00:08:34.360 the vaccine's going to be,
00:08:35.540 you know, flatten the curve,
00:08:37.180 two weeks to flatten the curve,
00:08:38.400 wait until we have a vaccine.
00:08:39.840 As I said on Twitter the other day,
00:08:41.300 next thing you know,
00:08:41.840 it'll be, we're just going to,
00:08:43.320 you know, hold out
00:08:43.840 until the Leafs win the Stanley Cup.
00:08:45.400 So we're in this whole thing
00:08:46.760 for the long haul.
00:08:47.760 So we can't use this as an excuse
00:08:49.600 to not have elections,
00:08:51.020 to suspend democracy,
00:08:52.520 which is already something
00:08:53.960 that politicians and governments
00:08:55.380 were tempted enough to do
00:08:56.640 in the early days of this pandemic.
00:08:59.320 So if you don't want to run a campaign
00:09:01.740 and you don't want an election,
00:09:02.920 that's fine.
00:09:04.040 Don't use the COVID-19 excuse
00:09:07.160 because it just simply isn't accurate.
00:09:09.760 There's no reason that
00:09:10.720 if we were destined for an election,
00:09:13.060 we couldn't have one and make it work.
00:09:15.560 It would look different,
00:09:16.500 campaigns would look different,
00:09:17.720 but we could go to the polls
00:09:19.060 and do it safely.
00:09:21.060 So liberals are being smart right now
00:09:23.920 when they try to make everything
00:09:25.500 about an election,
00:09:26.360 because again,
00:09:27.440 it brings the NDP right along
00:09:29.180 and the conservatives
00:09:30.260 aren't as clear as they need to be.
00:09:32.240 I would love to have
00:09:33.120 conservative leader Aaron O'Toole
00:09:34.360 come out and say,
00:09:35.440 yeah, these guys have been
00:09:37.100 screwing the pooch.
00:09:38.340 I can use that expression.
00:09:39.540 I don't know.
00:09:39.920 Okay, I'll use a different one.
00:09:41.060 These guys have been
00:09:41.940 screwing things up for so long
00:09:44.020 and we need to have change.
00:09:47.120 I'm a conservative leader.
00:09:48.360 I'm ready to go.
00:09:49.260 I didn't want an election right now,
00:09:51.080 but an opportunity is coming up
00:09:52.440 and you know what?
00:09:53.140 Canadians should decide.
00:09:55.040 Because the fear is
00:09:56.240 that Canadians will decide
00:09:57.740 to send Justin Trudeau back to Ottawa.
00:09:59.940 That's the fear.
00:10:01.260 Good morning, Mr. O'Toole.
00:10:02.700 We know that the liberals
00:10:04.120 have, of course,
00:10:05.140 been eager this week
00:10:06.080 to make a confidence motion
00:10:07.560 out of something
00:10:08.060 that wasn't intended as such.
00:10:09.940 My question to you is,
00:10:11.400 why not own the fact
00:10:12.620 that an election
00:10:13.240 might be in the best interest
00:10:14.560 of Canadians,
00:10:15.720 given the charges
00:10:16.740 that the conservatives
00:10:17.540 have been putting against Trudeau
00:10:18.880 on matters of ethics
00:10:20.720 and spending
00:10:21.280 and all of these things.
00:10:22.160 Why not welcome that opportunity?
00:10:24.820 We're doing our job, Andrew,
00:10:26.460 as an opposition
00:10:27.200 to ask questions,
00:10:28.760 to hold the government
00:10:29.340 to account
00:10:29.860 for its ethical scandals
00:10:31.600 and to propose
00:10:32.640 a smarter, faster,
00:10:34.260 and better solution.
00:10:35.060 We've done that
00:10:35.660 with rapid tests.
00:10:37.180 The prime minister said
00:10:38.280 testing was important in March
00:10:39.640 and then did nothing.
00:10:40.840 When the conservatives
00:10:42.040 began asking questions,
00:10:44.220 holding them to account,
00:10:45.200 we had a response.
00:10:46.700 How would an election
00:10:47.920 in the second wave
00:10:49.000 of a pandemic
00:10:49.760 improve our response?
00:10:51.320 How would that help
00:10:52.160 the well-being of Canadians?
00:10:54.440 Mr. Trudeau is willing
00:10:55.740 to put his own
00:10:56.580 political fortunes,
00:10:58.080 a continued cover-up,
00:10:59.740 ahead of the health
00:11:00.380 of Canadians.
00:11:01.500 The fear is that
00:11:02.520 when Canadians are confronted
00:11:03.680 with that choice,
00:11:04.780 Canadians won't actually
00:11:05.840 choose to throw out
00:11:07.060 the liberals,
00:11:08.440 but will actually choose
00:11:09.340 to give the liberals
00:11:10.040 another mandate
00:11:10.760 and potentially
00:11:11.460 even a majority.
00:11:13.380 And there does seem
00:11:14.220 to be a galvanizing effect
00:11:16.200 in a time of crisis
00:11:17.840 where people go
00:11:19.420 with the status quo
00:11:20.600 despite the questions
00:11:21.680 that have been raised
00:11:22.420 and very legitimate questions
00:11:24.000 throughout the course
00:11:24.740 of Justin Trudeau's leadership,
00:11:26.560 even in,
00:11:27.240 and I'd say especially,
00:11:28.240 in the last year.
00:11:30.060 And then you have
00:11:31.080 this ultimate question
00:11:32.240 with the NDP.
00:11:33.340 The NDP knows
00:11:34.480 it's not going to win.
00:11:36.700 The NDP knows
00:11:37.600 that it's not going
00:11:38.420 to become the government.
00:11:40.000 So the NDP wants
00:11:40.940 the most powerful situation
00:11:42.880 possible for itself.
00:11:44.680 And I go back
00:11:45.540 to this article
00:11:46.260 that came out,
00:11:47.280 I think it was in December,
00:11:48.860 in which Jagmeet Singh said
00:11:50.640 he would rather press
00:11:52.020 the liberals
00:11:52.720 than work with the Tories.
00:11:54.720 This was in an interview
00:11:55.580 with the Canadian press.
00:11:57.100 He said,
00:11:57.500 when it comes to the values
00:11:58.600 that I have
00:11:59.280 and have been pushing for,
00:12:00.480 I don't see an alignment
00:12:01.480 with the values
00:12:02.160 the conservatives
00:12:02.780 have pushed forward.
00:12:04.680 And ultimately,
00:12:05.400 he had said
00:12:06.080 the goal would be
00:12:06.880 to push the liberals
00:12:08.480 to do better
00:12:09.300 rather than working
00:12:10.460 with the conservatives.
00:12:11.560 And there's nothing wrong
00:12:12.880 with that.
00:12:13.300 I mean,
00:12:13.460 it's a far left party.
00:12:15.040 Obviously,
00:12:15.380 they're going to go
00:12:15.980 with the other left wing party
00:12:17.340 than the party
00:12:17.940 that is on the right.
00:12:19.860 But in saying this,
00:12:21.160 it reveals that
00:12:22.140 if the choice
00:12:23.420 is between
00:12:24.120 a liberal government
00:12:25.100 or a conservative government,
00:12:27.140 the NDP will always,
00:12:28.860 always,
00:12:29.520 always want
00:12:30.440 the liberal government.
00:12:32.900 So they're not going
00:12:34.300 to go down this road
00:12:35.200 unless they think
00:12:36.100 that they will improve
00:12:37.120 their standing,
00:12:37.900 perhaps come out
00:12:38.740 a la Jack Layton
00:12:40.040 circa 2011.
00:12:41.460 But that's not going to happen.
00:12:42.620 I think the NDP
00:12:43.280 had its shot
00:12:44.100 and blew it.
00:12:45.200 And frankly,
00:12:45.960 I don't think Jagmeet Singh
00:12:46.800 is the leader
00:12:47.680 that could recreate
00:12:49.240 the Jack Layton coalition
00:12:51.180 of the NDP.
00:12:53.120 So when we see
00:12:54.680 the NDP
00:12:55.360 just decide
00:12:56.720 to flounder
00:12:57.760 and not be grounded
00:12:58.980 in anything
00:12:59.460 and just prop up
00:13:00.300 the liberals,
00:13:01.120 I mean,
00:13:01.340 on one hand,
00:13:01.900 I say,
00:13:02.220 yeah,
00:13:02.400 it's ridiculous
00:13:03.040 and it's feckless.
00:13:03.840 But on the other hand,
00:13:04.540 what I say,
00:13:04.860 can you blame them
00:13:05.580 because they don't really
00:13:06.680 have any other options
00:13:07.980 at this point?
00:13:09.300 I mean,
00:13:09.600 when I say floundering,
00:13:10.560 just look at this story
00:13:11.640 in the National Post.
00:13:12.980 I think it was this morning
00:13:13.840 or yesterday evening.
00:13:15.280 NDP needs
00:13:16.280 more conscientious approach
00:13:18.200 to avoid becoming
00:13:19.620 permanent liberal prop up,
00:13:21.580 experts say.
00:13:22.720 And I don't quite disagree
00:13:23.940 with this.
00:13:24.600 The quote that they're
00:13:25.660 actually leaning on,
00:13:26.680 the quote from which
00:13:27.340 they're extracting that
00:13:28.360 is from Kathy Brock,
00:13:29.980 who's a Queens
00:13:30.640 University professor.
00:13:32.140 And she says,
00:13:32.740 the NDP is really
00:13:33.780 going to have to be
00:13:34.620 much more conscientious
00:13:35.640 in Parliament going forward.
00:13:37.360 And that means
00:13:38.260 putting motions on the table
00:13:39.620 that investigate things
00:13:40.560 the government is doing
00:13:41.400 and spending,
00:13:42.540 putting forward measures
00:13:43.600 that the government
00:13:44.580 might have to vote down.
00:13:46.580 But the whole point
00:13:47.400 is that the NDP
00:13:48.260 is not going to do that.
00:13:50.320 I mean,
00:13:50.700 if anything the NDP does,
00:13:52.580 suppose the NDP
00:13:53.320 wants to say,
00:13:54.300 you know what?
00:13:54.640 Yeah,
00:13:54.760 we're going to take aim
00:13:55.500 at this spending
00:13:56.100 or that spending.
00:13:57.120 All the liberals
00:13:57.820 have to do is say,
00:13:58.820 ah,
00:13:59.320 it's going to be
00:14:00.020 a confidence motion.
00:14:01.420 Like,
00:14:01.700 don't be surprised
00:14:02.600 if by the end
00:14:03.860 of this parliamentary session,
00:14:05.200 we've had like
00:14:06.300 a confidence motion a week
00:14:07.540 because the liberals
00:14:08.280 have just discovered
00:14:09.080 that that's their meal ticket
00:14:10.260 to not having any opposition,
00:14:12.480 to actually not being opposed.
00:14:15.320 And this is where
00:14:15.960 I go back to
00:14:16.680 the conservatives
00:14:17.880 needing to actually stand up
00:14:19.780 and fight more forcefully
00:14:21.220 for an election here
00:14:22.600 because they're going to say,
00:14:23.680 oh, no, no, no,
00:14:23.980 we don't need an election.
00:14:24.980 We can oppose
00:14:25.560 through Parliament.
00:14:26.240 But if the government
00:14:27.520 is effectively neutralizing
00:14:29.480 or let's be frank,
00:14:30.820 neutering the opposition
00:14:32.480 by making it so that
00:14:34.620 one of the opposition parties
00:14:36.040 has been bought,
00:14:37.160 then there's not really
00:14:39.040 an opposition mandate
00:14:40.960 that exists
00:14:41.700 in the House of Commons.
00:14:43.220 Opposition is supposed
00:14:44.080 to be strongest
00:14:44.760 in the minority.
00:14:46.560 But what Justin Trudeau
00:14:47.620 has managed to do
00:14:48.700 is dupe the NDP
00:14:50.800 into a coalition government
00:14:52.580 without actually being
00:14:54.120 part of the coalition.
00:14:56.240 Like, remember when
00:14:57.460 there was the big,
00:14:58.360 the infamous,
00:14:58.980 you know, awkward handshake,
00:15:00.400 the coalition between
00:15:01.500 Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe
00:15:03.580 and Stéphane Dion.
00:15:05.560 You know, the thing about
00:15:06.520 that coalition plan in 2008
00:15:09.100 was that there would at least
00:15:10.500 be a formalized coalition.
00:15:12.340 Like, yeah, we are all
00:15:13.240 sitting down at this table together.
00:15:15.420 And as a Canadian,
00:15:16.280 I didn't like it,
00:15:17.160 but politically,
00:15:18.000 that was at least
00:15:19.060 an honest assessment
00:15:20.540 of what they were trying to do.
00:15:22.000 In this particular case,
00:15:23.680 Jagmeet Singh has no power,
00:15:25.200 is getting no concessions.
00:15:27.560 He's not managing
00:15:28.800 to negotiate anything
00:15:30.000 out of the Liberals
00:15:30.760 that the Liberals
00:15:31.340 weren't already doing,
00:15:32.420 but the Liberals
00:15:33.480 are getting the NDP support.
00:15:35.980 So it is a coalition government
00:15:37.860 without the coalition part,
00:15:40.060 which I got to hand it
00:15:41.200 to Justin Trudeau.
00:15:41.960 I know people get mad
00:15:42.720 when I give credit
00:15:43.420 where it's due,
00:15:44.320 but to have this much power
00:15:46.380 without actually offering
00:15:48.220 anything for it
00:15:49.200 is a political accomplishment
00:15:51.380 in and of itself.
00:15:52.460 We've got to take a break.
00:15:53.520 When we come back,
00:15:54.200 more of The Andrew Lawton Show
00:15:55.460 here on True North.
00:15:58.180 You're tuned in
00:15:59.260 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:16:03.640 Welcome back
00:16:04.360 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:16:05.680 I try to keep an eye out
00:16:06.940 for different stories
00:16:08.300 that come up
00:16:08.920 that are a little bit odd,
00:16:09.940 off the beaten path things.
00:16:11.460 And this sometimes brings me
00:16:12.660 to really weird ones
00:16:13.980 that I wish I hadn't seen.
00:16:15.800 But my mindset is,
00:16:17.300 if I had to see it,
00:16:18.380 then you have to suffer
00:16:19.240 through it as well.
00:16:19.980 This comes from
00:16:21.500 the River Valley News
00:16:23.380 in the United States,
00:16:24.940 a Fox local station
00:16:26.200 in Oklahoma.
00:16:27.760 And that will become
00:16:28.540 less surprising to you
00:16:29.900 in a moment.
00:16:31.040 Two LaFleur County men,
00:16:32.440 there they are there,
00:16:33.180 were arrested on numerous charges,
00:16:35.080 including desecration
00:16:36.020 of a human member
00:16:37.000 and outraging public decency
00:16:39.220 with gross injury,
00:16:40.920 according to LaFleur County
00:16:42.440 Sheriff Rodney Derryberry,
00:16:45.060 which there's just a lot
00:16:46.860 that's weird about this story.
00:16:47.880 And Sheriff Rodney Derryberry
00:16:49.480 is one of them.
00:16:51.740 The two men were charged
00:16:53.280 with a number of things.
00:16:54.440 A desecration of a human member
00:16:55.740 is the one I want to focus in
00:16:57.040 on right now.
00:16:58.720 But here's the thing.
00:17:00.820 Apparently, Sheriff Derryberry says
00:17:02.980 someone was dropped off
00:17:04.240 on October 14th
00:17:05.980 at McAllister Hospital
00:17:07.200 who had had a crude
00:17:08.820 surgical procedure done,
00:17:10.500 evidently not done
00:17:11.420 by professionals.
00:17:12.920 When they investigated it,
00:17:14.960 they had been able
00:17:15.840 to confirm that,
00:17:16.740 quote, a man's penis
00:17:18.580 was cut off.
00:17:19.740 But here's the kicker.
00:17:21.500 The victim was a willing
00:17:23.180 participant in the dismemberment.
00:17:26.720 Now, they're still being charged.
00:17:28.600 But the lesson in this
00:17:29.640 is that even if you are
00:17:30.620 in Oklahoma
00:17:31.080 and you want like a very crude
00:17:33.820 and discount
00:17:35.520 castration procedure,
00:17:37.040 you're not allowed to get it
00:17:38.020 from these smiling chaps
00:17:39.980 who look way too happy
00:17:41.440 about being arrested for this.
00:17:42.560 But hey, if the guy
00:17:43.020 was a willing participant,
00:17:44.720 I don't know why
00:17:45.720 they're charging,
00:17:46.400 but it really reinforces
00:17:47.640 that idea of desecration
00:17:48.560 of a human member.
00:17:50.220 I'll see myself out.
00:17:51.600 What else do we have
00:17:52.540 going on here?
00:17:53.700 This one is a lot
00:17:54.600 more wholesome.
00:17:55.580 A high schooler
00:17:56.520 has decided to take
00:17:57.480 his creative Halloween costume
00:17:58.940 for a spin
00:17:59.960 around the neighborhood.
00:18:01.040 This clip is from
00:18:01.920 CBC's The National.
00:18:03.160 Oh, I know this is my Halloween costume.
00:18:08.160 Well, we started building it
00:18:09.540 about three months ago.
00:18:10.780 With all the pandemic,
00:18:12.700 we couldn't,
00:18:13.700 there were no parades left.
00:18:15.140 So we came to Halloween costume.
00:18:18.700 The Sherman tank
00:18:19.320 is one of my favorites.
00:18:20.540 So the plan was to get
00:18:21.620 a little electric engine,
00:18:23.740 broken wheelchair,
00:18:24.620 broken mobility scooter,
00:18:25.620 and build something
00:18:26.920 that we could be,
00:18:27.600 he could drive in the parade.
00:18:28.600 We spent quite a lot of time
00:18:30.600 collecting cardboard,
00:18:31.980 found a Sherman tank
00:18:33.340 that Canadians served in
00:18:35.340 during World War II.
00:18:36.440 This is how it would look
00:18:37.320 except scale down
00:18:38.940 and, you know,
00:18:40.920 James sized.
00:18:41.760 I have this drawstring bag
00:18:44.020 for holding candies
00:18:45.280 to give to people.
00:18:46.560 Everybody, everybody loves it.
00:18:48.700 That is absolutely fantastic.
00:18:51.100 So I've never been
00:18:52.280 an artsy person
00:18:53.340 in any way whatsoever.
00:18:55.200 Well, no, sorry.
00:18:55.800 I am on like
00:18:56.400 non-visual arts thing.
00:18:57.980 I can play piano very well.
00:18:59.620 I can hum a tune.
00:19:00.360 I once did a duet
00:19:01.260 with Tal Bachman
00:19:02.240 and Michelle Bachman.
00:19:04.180 It was a duet
00:19:04.760 because I was singing
00:19:05.420 with Michelle Bachman
00:19:06.300 and Tal was accompanying.
00:19:07.520 So I'm not like not artsy.
00:19:09.700 I just can't draw
00:19:10.700 or sketch or mold
00:19:11.620 or sculpt or anything like that.
00:19:13.320 But this is,
00:19:14.320 I mean, tremendous.
00:19:15.660 And the Sherman tank,
00:19:16.760 again, a very significant
00:19:18.000 historical piece in Canada.
00:19:20.020 A lot of work went into it,
00:19:21.340 the engineering strength.
00:19:23.040 And it's a really good news story
00:19:24.760 in Halloween,
00:19:25.500 especially when governments
00:19:26.380 are telling people
00:19:27.120 not to do Halloween.
00:19:29.220 But then you look
00:19:29.960 at the replies
00:19:31.160 and granted,
00:19:32.940 it's a small sample size here.
00:19:34.420 But the first one,
00:19:35.400 this is kind of disturbing,
00:19:36.700 CBC and someone else.
00:19:38.380 Are we really celebrating
00:19:39.400 war and mobiles of violence
00:19:41.200 with everything
00:19:41.800 that's happening
00:19:42.360 in Nova Scotia?
00:19:43.660 Someone else says
00:19:44.400 white people
00:19:45.120 and then someone else says
00:19:46.980 state-run media
00:19:48.160 must be stopped.
00:19:49.460 Now, I don't disagree
00:19:50.460 with the sentiment,
00:19:51.240 but I don't think
00:19:51.940 that has to do
00:19:52.540 with the tank Halloween.
00:19:54.920 I don't even know
00:19:55.380 if you can call it
00:19:55.880 a costume necessarily,
00:19:57.200 but well done.
00:19:59.020 I would absolutely love
00:20:00.120 to see that rolling
00:20:01.040 down my street.
00:20:02.200 And you're never going
00:20:02.680 to be as socially distanced
00:20:03.780 as you are
00:20:04.400 if you are hanging out
00:20:06.260 in a tank during Halloween.
00:20:08.400 Let's talk a little bit
00:20:09.580 about the airline industry
00:20:11.360 because I spoke last week
00:20:13.060 or two weeks ago
00:20:13.760 whenever it was
00:20:14.400 about being in
00:20:15.220 an Air Canada focus group.
00:20:16.540 I used to,
00:20:17.200 in a distant world,
00:20:18.640 be a frequent flyer
00:20:20.280 because of all of the,
00:20:21.580 you know,
00:20:21.860 things that we're now
00:20:22.900 no longer allowed to do.
00:20:24.400 But one of the big battles,
00:20:25.580 and I'd like to focus
00:20:26.760 on this in a bit more detail
00:20:28.120 and probably get
00:20:29.480 Gabor Lukash on the show
00:20:31.180 who's been a great advocate
00:20:32.400 for air passengers' rights.
00:20:34.180 But WestJet has caved
00:20:35.780 in the refund
00:20:37.360 versus credit battle
00:20:38.820 that airlines have been
00:20:40.520 for the most part
00:20:41.260 trying to stay back from.
00:20:43.540 Right now,
00:20:44.260 if you have had
00:20:45.160 a cancelled trip,
00:20:46.700 even if the airline
00:20:47.620 cancels it,
00:20:48.720 they're not going
00:20:49.420 to give you a refund
00:20:50.360 with Air Canada
00:20:51.280 or up until now WestJet.
00:20:53.040 More on that in a moment.
00:20:54.240 What they're going to do
00:20:54.960 is give you a credit
00:20:56.520 that you can then use
00:20:57.600 at any point.
00:20:58.780 And I don't even think
00:20:59.340 they expire now
00:21:00.160 because there's just so much
00:21:01.480 that is in limbo
00:21:02.600 and so much uncertainty.
00:21:04.520 But what ended up happening
00:21:05.800 was the airlines
00:21:07.040 were saying,
00:21:07.600 no, no, no,
00:21:08.220 we will only under
00:21:09.440 the passenger rights laws
00:21:11.300 have to give a refund
00:21:12.640 if we cancel
00:21:13.840 for something out of our control.
00:21:15.740 They're saying
00:21:16.560 that the pandemic
00:21:17.200 is not in their control.
00:21:18.460 Ergo,
00:21:18.840 they shouldn't have
00:21:20.660 to give refunds.
00:21:22.140 And there is
00:21:23.120 an economic argument here
00:21:24.540 in that airlines right now
00:21:25.800 are absolutely
00:21:26.720 in terrible shape.
00:21:28.520 The stock prices
00:21:29.420 are a shadow
00:21:30.320 of what they once were.
00:21:32.260 And there's not really
00:21:33.020 an end in sight.
00:21:34.080 The CEO of United Airlines
00:21:35.800 in the U.S.
00:21:36.480 had said that he doesn't think
00:21:37.580 the flying demand
00:21:38.560 will return until 2024.
00:21:41.380 And there is,
00:21:42.620 because of this,
00:21:43.520 the discussion
00:21:44.100 about whether there should be
00:21:45.620 or will be
00:21:46.620 a bailout of sorts.
00:21:47.840 And I think there's
00:21:48.540 a legitimate argument
00:21:49.380 to be made that,
00:21:50.040 look,
00:21:50.560 airlines should not get
00:21:51.500 a cent of taxpayer money
00:21:52.740 when Canadians have millions
00:21:54.740 and in some cases
00:21:55.720 over a billion dollars
00:21:56.920 wrapped up in these airlines
00:21:58.600 in credits.
00:22:00.000 But now WestJet has caved.
00:22:01.600 They're going to provide
00:22:02.380 refunds for flights
00:22:04.300 canceled during the pandemic.
00:22:07.280 They said they're contacting
00:22:08.460 all eligible flyers
00:22:09.600 with WestJet and Swoop,
00:22:11.440 beginning with those
00:22:12.340 whose flights were canceled
00:22:13.300 in March 2020
00:22:14.300 at the onset of the pandemic
00:22:16.020 to offer refunds.
00:22:17.480 The process is going
00:22:18.500 to take six to nine months
00:22:19.840 and they're asking customers,
00:22:21.760 don't call us,
00:22:22.660 we will call you.
00:22:24.080 They're saying that
00:22:24.740 they've heard loud and clear
00:22:25.680 that people want
00:22:26.540 the safest travel environment
00:22:28.140 and refunds.
00:22:29.520 And up until this point,
00:22:30.900 they haven't been able
00:22:31.520 to afford it,
00:22:32.200 but now they're saying
00:22:33.060 that they think
00:22:33.680 they can make it happen.
00:22:35.720 1.2 billion dollars.
00:22:38.440 So this is great.
00:22:39.280 So now Air Canada
00:22:40.100 and WestJet
00:22:40.620 are fighting about this.
00:22:42.580 Air Canada says,
00:22:43.600 misleading statement.
00:22:44.460 WestJet is just now
00:22:45.540 catching up to our policy
00:22:47.260 to refund refundable fares.
00:22:49.280 We have already refunded
00:22:50.780 over 1.2 billion dollars
00:22:52.420 in refundable fares to date.
00:22:56.180 Now, yes,
00:22:56.740 Air Canada will refund you
00:22:57.900 if you bought
00:22:58.760 the refundable fares.
00:22:59.840 Most travelers do not.
00:23:01.360 They travel on one
00:23:02.500 of the cheaper options
00:23:03.420 that's not refundable.
00:23:04.580 But Air Canada's
00:23:05.700 throwing shade here
00:23:06.460 and even tagging WestJet,
00:23:07.660 which gives WestJet
00:23:08.340 the opportunity to respond
00:23:09.640 as they did
00:23:10.760 by saying,
00:23:11.880 let's clear the air.
00:23:13.220 We're offering refunds
00:23:14.540 for guests
00:23:15.560 if we cancel their flight.
00:23:17.540 Even the lowest cost tickets
00:23:19.380 will be refunded
00:23:20.400 to original form of payment
00:23:21.980 if WestJet caused
00:23:23.660 the cancellation,
00:23:24.900 making Air Canada
00:23:25.980 probably really unhappy
00:23:27.620 that it was deciding
00:23:28.640 to wade into this fight
00:23:30.180 because they said
00:23:30.840 in a statement
00:23:31.360 that they're only going
00:23:32.660 to be, again,
00:23:33.300 refunding the refundable tickets.
00:23:35.780 But this is what
00:23:37.160 they should be doing.
00:23:38.200 And I'm going to give
00:23:38.800 some free advice
00:23:39.660 to the airline industry.
00:23:40.760 And I'm borrowing this
00:23:41.960 from what cruise industries
00:23:43.480 have done
00:23:43.940 or the cruise industry
00:23:44.740 has done.
00:23:45.600 And I know this
00:23:46.280 because I work
00:23:47.100 in one particular context
00:23:48.880 in putting together
00:23:49.640 an annual cruise.
00:23:51.080 And what the cruise lines
00:23:53.000 have done,
00:23:53.720 many of them,
00:23:54.340 is say,
00:23:54.660 listen,
00:23:54.940 we'll give you a refund
00:23:55.780 if you want.
00:23:56.240 We canceled it.
00:23:56.980 That's on us.
00:23:58.000 But if you do not
00:24:00.720 want a refund
00:24:02.140 or if you are tempted
00:24:04.320 by this other option,
00:24:05.600 we will give you a credit
00:24:06.800 at 125% value.
00:24:09.800 So you get a 100% refund
00:24:11.580 or you get a 125% credit.
00:24:15.120 So we'll pay you
00:24:16.260 to do whatever it is
00:24:17.560 you want to do with us
00:24:18.360 at another point.
00:24:19.220 And to be honest,
00:24:20.020 that option,
00:24:21.220 if airlines did,
00:24:22.300 it would go a long way
00:24:23.480 to offer goodwill
00:24:24.460 because it would convince people
00:24:25.840 to actually keep their money
00:24:27.800 in the airline,
00:24:28.560 which saves the airlines
00:24:29.880 from the revenue issue.
00:24:31.200 And they spend a little bit
00:24:32.500 more down the road
00:24:33.320 because they have to give
00:24:34.180 the person,
00:24:35.040 maybe it's an upgrade
00:24:35.900 or maybe it's they swap it out
00:24:37.540 for a more expensive flight
00:24:38.620 or whatever the case may be.
00:24:40.020 But they give people the option.
00:24:41.580 And when push comes to shove,
00:24:42.620 you say,
00:24:42.960 listen,
00:24:43.180 we'll give you your money back
00:24:44.040 or we'll give you more value
00:24:46.020 in the future.
00:24:47.080 A lot of people
00:24:47.780 are going to take
00:24:48.360 the future option,
00:24:49.840 but they're not doing that.
00:24:51.080 And this is why airlines
00:24:52.280 continue to get crapped on
00:24:54.100 because they invite it
00:24:55.300 by crapping on their customers.
00:24:57.340 So good on WestJet again.
00:24:59.120 I mean,
00:24:59.320 I generally speaking
00:25:00.480 have flown a lot with Air Canada
00:25:01.760 and I think they do a lot well.
00:25:02.960 I don't join the Air Canada's
00:25:05.740 evil bandwagon
00:25:06.560 like a lot of people
00:25:07.520 like to ride on,
00:25:08.840 but they are looking
00:25:10.140 pretty bad in this
00:25:10.920 now that WestJet has given in.
00:25:12.940 We will be right back
00:25:13.880 in a moment
00:25:14.240 and talk about the thing
00:25:15.020 that's making everything
00:25:15.780 more expensive for everyone,
00:25:17.620 the carbon tax.
00:25:18.460 That's up next
00:25:19.020 on The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:25:22.720 You're tuned in
00:25:23.880 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:25:25.380 Welcome back
00:25:32.260 to The Andrew Lawton Show
00:25:33.680 here on True North.
00:25:34.740 Let's talk about
00:25:35.520 one of my biggest pet peeves
00:25:36.880 and I suspect one
00:25:37.600 that I share
00:25:38.180 with a great many of you
00:25:39.200 tuning in to this show.
00:25:40.940 The federal government's
00:25:42.640 carbon tax
00:25:43.360 or as it likes to call it,
00:25:44.420 I believe,
00:25:44.820 the Greenhouse Gas Pollution
00:25:46.400 Pricing Act,
00:25:47.320 which is basically
00:25:48.440 the tax on everything.
00:25:50.400 The tax on your fuel,
00:25:51.860 on your gas heating at home,
00:25:53.180 the tax on anything you buy
00:25:55.080 that's been produced
00:25:55.860 in Canada,
00:25:56.560 on anything that's been
00:25:57.300 shipped to you.
00:25:57.940 It is literally the tax
00:25:59.280 on pretty much every stage
00:26:01.540 of the supply chain
00:26:03.020 and it's supposedly
00:26:04.660 going to help save the world
00:26:06.300 from the evil scourge
00:26:07.500 that is a greenhouse gas
00:26:08.860 but at the same time,
00:26:10.800 this is also not something
00:26:12.140 that I am as optimistic in
00:26:14.260 and I know a lot of you
00:26:15.340 aren't either.
00:26:16.480 Forgetting about
00:26:17.060 the environmental side
00:26:18.060 of the discussion here,
00:26:19.240 let's focus on
00:26:20.360 the economic aspect.
00:26:22.100 A new report
00:26:22.600 from the Fraser Institute
00:26:23.480 says that
00:26:24.140 this carbon tax
00:26:25.520 that we have in Canada
00:26:26.600 and in fact,
00:26:27.140 most of the carbon taxes
00:26:28.160 put in by very similar
00:26:29.740 wealthy nations
00:26:30.680 around the world
00:26:31.360 don't actually economically
00:26:33.240 meet the criteria necessary
00:26:35.120 to say they are
00:26:36.440 efficient and effective.
00:26:38.220 The report is
00:26:39.160 Carbon Pricing
00:26:40.000 in High Income
00:26:40.820 OECD Countries.
00:26:41.920 The author is
00:26:43.000 Elmira Ali Akbari
00:26:44.300 who's the Associate Director
00:26:45.720 of Natural Resource Studies
00:26:47.660 at the Fraser Institute
00:26:48.640 and the author of this report.
00:26:50.640 Dr. Ali Akbari,
00:26:51.680 thank you very much
00:26:52.440 for coming on.
00:26:53.160 Good to speak with you.
00:26:54.140 Thanks, Andrew,
00:26:54.980 for having me.
00:26:56.720 So let's start off
00:26:57.740 with what it was
00:26:58.500 you really set out to find
00:26:59.860 when you decided
00:27:00.820 to bring together
00:27:01.600 these countries
00:27:02.200 around the world.
00:27:02.960 What were you looking for?
00:27:04.600 So it's widely
00:27:06.520 acknowledged that
00:27:07.700 carbon pricing
00:27:08.480 is the most efficient
00:27:09.600 way to reduce
00:27:10.700 greenhouse gas emissions
00:27:12.060 and address
00:27:13.580 the issue
00:27:14.060 of climate change.
00:27:15.260 However,
00:27:16.180 some key conditions
00:27:17.600 must be met
00:27:18.460 for carbon pricing
00:27:19.760 to be efficient
00:27:20.640 or in other words
00:27:21.720 to be the least costly
00:27:23.860 approach
00:27:24.400 for reducing emissions.
00:27:26.480 The first condition
00:27:27.460 is something we call
00:27:28.460 revenue neutrality
00:27:29.520 and that means
00:27:30.320 that all the revenues
00:27:31.600 from carbon pricing
00:27:32.860 should be used
00:27:33.880 to reduce
00:27:34.560 other costly taxes
00:27:36.140 in the system
00:27:37.540 such as reducing
00:27:38.440 personal or business
00:27:39.900 income tax rates.
00:27:41.580 The second condition
00:27:42.740 which is also related
00:27:43.900 to the first one
00:27:44.960 is that governments
00:27:46.340 should avoid
00:27:47.600 subsidizing substitutes
00:27:49.800 for carbon-emitting
00:27:50.880 activities
00:27:51.640 such as subsidizing
00:27:53.500 wind and solar
00:27:55.000 energy sources
00:27:56.100 because subsidizing
00:27:57.680 these substitutes
00:27:59.000 will increase
00:27:59.800 the cost of reducing
00:28:01.240 emissions
00:28:01.860 and will defeat
00:28:03.300 the whole purpose
00:28:04.400 of carbon pricing
00:28:05.500 which is allowing
00:28:06.860 the market
00:28:07.640 and prices
00:28:08.600 to find
00:28:10.420 the right substitutes.
00:28:12.420 And the third condition
00:28:13.520 is that the introduction
00:28:15.220 of carbon pricing
00:28:16.540 should trigger
00:28:18.160 the repeal
00:28:20.180 of the existing
00:28:21.280 and corresponding
00:28:22.300 emissions-related
00:28:23.740 regulations.
00:28:24.580 We shouldn't be adding
00:28:25.480 carbon pricing
00:28:26.360 on top of existing
00:28:28.100 regulations.
00:28:29.040 So in our recent study
00:28:30.820 we examined
00:28:31.660 existing carbon pricing
00:28:33.600 policies
00:28:34.280 in 31 high-income
00:28:35.980 OECD countries
00:28:37.100 to determine
00:28:38.500 whether
00:28:39.160 these existing
00:28:41.420 systems
00:28:42.240 meet the key conditions
00:28:44.140 of a well-designed
00:28:45.840 carbon pricing
00:28:46.620 policies
00:28:47.140 and we found
00:28:47.760 that no country
00:28:49.700 has implemented
00:28:51.000 a well-designed
00:28:51.880 carbon pricing policy.
00:28:53.560 More specifically
00:28:54.300 no country
00:28:55.920 is using
00:28:56.400 all the revenues
00:28:57.400 from carbon pricing
00:28:59.400 to reduce
00:29:00.140 other taxes
00:29:01.160 which help
00:29:02.760 with improving
00:29:04.320 economic growth.
00:29:05.480 our study
00:29:06.860 found that
00:29:07.860 74%
00:29:09.980 of the
00:29:11.280 carbon tax
00:29:12.380 revenues
00:29:13.520 collected
00:29:14.220 in 14 countries
00:29:16.700 on average
00:29:17.860 are simply
00:29:19.000 used as
00:29:19.860 general revenues
00:29:21.120 for the government.
00:29:22.800 Only 14%
00:29:24.420 of the
00:29:25.260 carbon tax revenues
00:29:26.820 again on average
00:29:27.800 were returned
00:29:29.200 to taxpayers.
00:29:30.880 And this suggests
00:29:31.940 that
00:29:32.480 existing carbon
00:29:33.960 carbon taxes
00:29:34.580 are mainly
00:29:35.540 used as a
00:29:36.680 tool for governments
00:29:38.220 to raise revenue
00:29:39.340 rather than
00:29:40.420 a mechanism
00:29:41.500 to reduce emissions
00:29:43.000 in the most
00:29:45.120 affordable
00:29:46.200 way possible.
00:29:48.320 In addition,
00:29:48.960 we found that
00:29:49.540 no country
00:29:50.380 that introduced
00:29:51.520 carbon pricing
00:29:52.760 has eliminated
00:29:53.960 the existing
00:29:55.280 and corresponding
00:29:56.240 GHG-related regulations.
00:29:59.280 In fact,
00:30:00.020 most countries
00:30:00.920 have done
00:30:01.500 the opposite
00:30:02.340 and
00:30:03.100 they have
00:30:03.680 introduced
00:30:04.320 even new
00:30:05.000 regulations
00:30:05.780 following the
00:30:06.500 introduction
00:30:07.120 of
00:30:07.680 carbon pricing.
00:30:09.920 Emission caps,
00:30:11.660 clean fuel
00:30:12.240 standards,
00:30:13.460 renewable power
00:30:14.540 mandates.
00:30:15.500 These are just
00:30:15.980 some examples
00:30:16.820 of these regulations
00:30:18.000 that undermine
00:30:19.880 the cost-effectiveness
00:30:21.240 of carbon pricing
00:30:23.100 policies.
00:30:24.280 I want to talk
00:30:25.260 about some
00:30:25.840 of the specifics
00:30:26.880 you mentioned
00:30:27.380 a moment ago
00:30:27.980 about how the money
00:30:28.700 is spent.
00:30:29.160 But before then,
00:30:30.480 just getting to
00:30:31.180 really the fundamental
00:30:32.140 thesis of this report,
00:30:34.080 am I correct that
00:30:34.820 you're not saying
00:30:35.620 a carbon tax itself
00:30:37.140 is a bad thing
00:30:38.020 but just there's
00:30:38.560 a right way
00:30:39.080 and a wrong way
00:30:39.660 to do it?
00:30:40.180 Or is it that
00:30:41.160 so many of these
00:30:42.020 mechanisms you think
00:30:43.060 would be required
00:30:44.060 for it to be
00:30:44.620 better designed
00:30:45.320 are just not
00:30:46.440 happening in
00:30:47.120 carbon tax policies
00:30:48.140 that we see
00:30:48.640 around the world?
00:30:49.500 That's a really
00:30:50.200 great point.
00:30:51.400 So, you know,
00:30:52.380 most economists
00:30:53.160 including me
00:30:54.160 believe that
00:30:54.740 carbon pricing
00:30:55.580 is the most
00:30:56.240 efficient way
00:30:57.000 to reduce
00:30:57.540 greenhouse gas
00:30:58.340 emissions
00:30:58.740 but we believe
00:31:00.660 that the way
00:31:01.380 we are designing
00:31:02.440 and implementing
00:31:03.880 those policies
00:31:05.000 are really important.
00:31:06.760 While tackling
00:31:07.780 climate change
00:31:08.820 is a priority
00:31:09.760 we should really
00:31:10.560 pay attention
00:31:11.200 to the way
00:31:11.760 that we are
00:31:12.400 designing
00:31:13.500 and implementing
00:31:14.400 these policies.
00:31:15.660 If we have
00:31:16.600 a well-designed
00:31:17.620 carbon pricing
00:31:18.560 policy
00:31:19.140 we can reduce
00:31:20.760 greenhouse gas
00:31:22.040 emissions
00:31:22.480 in an efficient
00:31:24.340 and productive
00:31:25.080 way
00:31:25.560 and this is
00:31:26.200 basically
00:31:26.620 what our
00:31:27.220 report is
00:31:27.780 about.
00:31:29.380 So let's
00:31:30.280 talk about
00:31:30.800 how it's
00:31:31.440 spent
00:31:31.760 because I know
00:31:32.500 this was a
00:31:33.200 big part
00:31:33.960 of the discussion
00:31:34.580 in Canada
00:31:35.180 about whether
00:31:35.820 the money
00:31:36.620 that the
00:31:37.000 government
00:31:37.260 brings in
00:31:37.820 through the
00:31:38.220 carbon tax
00:31:38.920 had to be
00:31:39.400 used for
00:31:40.400 specific
00:31:41.300 emission reduction
00:31:42.580 programs
00:31:43.300 or whether it
00:31:43.880 could just go
00:31:44.500 into general
00:31:45.520 revenue.
00:31:46.360 Why does that
00:31:46.880 matter?
00:31:47.420 I mean in the
00:31:48.220 sense of the
00:31:48.780 effect a carbon
00:31:49.500 tax would have
00:31:50.240 on consumers
00:31:50.960 on industry
00:31:51.920 it's the
00:31:52.900 same.
00:31:53.400 How does it
00:31:53.880 matter from
00:31:54.500 an efficiency
00:31:55.260 standpoint how
00:31:56.120 the government
00:31:56.540 spends the
00:31:57.100 money?
00:31:58.800 So the
00:32:00.500 revenue
00:32:01.200 neutrality
00:32:01.920 condition
00:32:02.560 explicitly says
00:32:04.040 that the
00:32:04.960 collected
00:32:05.520 revenue from
00:32:06.300 carbon tax
00:32:07.380 should be
00:32:08.380 used to
00:32:09.040 reduce other
00:32:09.980 costly taxes
00:32:11.060 in the system
00:32:11.860 and the
00:32:13.160 reason is that
00:32:13.800 and this is
00:32:14.300 really important
00:32:14.900 the reason is
00:32:15.780 that this is
00:32:17.440 a bit technical
00:32:17.960 but I try to
00:32:18.860 put it simple
00:32:19.420 when we
00:32:19.900 introduce a
00:32:20.560 carbon tax
00:32:21.240 or any
00:32:21.580 other form
00:32:22.100 of tax
00:32:22.660 we create
00:32:23.900 an economic
00:32:24.700 inefficiency
00:32:25.540 which results
00:32:26.540 in something
00:32:27.280 economists
00:32:28.080 call deadweight
00:32:29.180 loss.
00:32:29.800 Deadweight loss
00:32:30.480 is a cost
00:32:31.780 to society
00:32:32.800 resulting from
00:32:34.440 an inefficient
00:32:35.720 allocation of
00:32:37.100 resources
00:32:37.640 within a market.
00:32:38.900 So the idea
00:32:39.480 is that when
00:32:40.020 we are
00:32:40.340 basically when
00:32:41.020 we are having
00:32:41.720 a carbon tax
00:32:42.580 that creates
00:32:43.320 some efficiency
00:32:44.540 costs.
00:32:45.320 So to mitigate
00:32:46.020 that efficiency
00:32:46.900 cost we should
00:32:47.740 be using
00:32:48.360 revenues from
00:32:49.540 carbon tax
00:32:50.260 to reduce
00:32:50.860 other costly
00:32:51.760 taxes.
00:32:53.260 And you know
00:32:54.260 for example
00:32:55.840 in Canada
00:32:56.360 the federal
00:32:56.820 government
00:32:57.240 is now
00:32:58.000 using
00:32:58.600 its carbon
00:33:00.020 tax revenues
00:33:01.020 to kind of
00:33:01.960 it's using
00:33:02.800 90% of its
00:33:03.700 carbon tax revenues
00:33:04.620 to recycle
00:33:05.840 it back to
00:33:06.520 households
00:33:07.200 through issuing
00:33:08.320 lump sum
00:33:10.120 rebates
00:33:10.840 while issuing
00:33:12.100 lump sum
00:33:12.620 rebates
00:33:13.380 you know
00:33:14.160 generates
00:33:14.800 some economic
00:33:16.300 some economic
00:33:16.860 efficiency benefits
00:33:18.300 but the benefits
00:33:20.240 would be larger
00:33:21.300 you know
00:33:21.900 if we
00:33:22.700 reduce
00:33:23.740 other taxes.
00:33:25.440 Many papers
00:33:25.960 have shown
00:33:26.580 that when
00:33:27.660 we use
00:33:28.980 carbon tax revenues
00:33:30.380 and recycle
00:33:31.240 them back
00:33:31.840 to the economy
00:33:32.600 in a form
00:33:33.160 of tax cuts
00:33:34.240 that would
00:33:35.540 result in
00:33:36.600 greater economic
00:33:38.400 efficiency
00:33:39.120 compared to a case
00:33:40.100 where we
00:33:41.380 just
00:33:41.740 issue
00:33:42.500 lump sum
00:33:43.100 rebates
00:33:43.700 so
00:33:44.440 and the
00:33:45.300 intuition
00:33:45.680 is also
00:33:46.180 simple
00:33:46.540 because
00:33:46.940 remember
00:33:47.860 those taxes
00:33:48.820 such as
00:33:49.500 income taxes
00:33:50.460 they discourage
00:33:51.740 work
00:33:52.340 they discourage
00:33:53.240 investment
00:33:53.860 and savings
00:33:54.800 so
00:33:55.040 when we
00:33:55.700 reduce
00:33:56.240 those taxes
00:33:57.140 we can
00:33:57.960 help more
00:33:58.740 with improving
00:33:59.980 economic
00:34:01.320 growth
00:34:02.040 and that's
00:34:02.700 why
00:34:03.080 you know
00:34:03.800 it's really
00:34:04.320 important
00:34:04.800 that all
00:34:05.780 the revenues
00:34:06.380 that we
00:34:06.920 are collecting
00:34:07.420 from carbon
00:34:08.920 pricing
00:34:09.360 should be
00:34:09.980 used to
00:34:10.440 reduce
00:34:10.800 other taxes
00:34:11.620 and this
00:34:12.060 is not
00:34:12.460 something
00:34:13.140 that the
00:34:13.580 federal government
00:34:14.180 is currently
00:34:15.100 doing.
00:34:16.100 One thing
00:34:16.920 I'm curious
00:34:17.420 about
00:34:17.780 and in
00:34:18.200 the list
00:34:18.580 of countries
00:34:19.180 against which
00:34:19.820 you've
00:34:20.100 compared
00:34:20.500 Canada
00:34:21.360 the 14
00:34:22.280 OECD
00:34:23.140 countries
00:34:23.540 that have
00:34:23.860 implemented
00:34:24.260 carbon
00:34:24.660 taxes
00:34:25.120 there's
00:34:25.840 a huge
00:34:26.500 range
00:34:27.040 of what
00:34:27.600 that actual
00:34:28.180 tax rate
00:34:28.860 is
00:34:29.120 I think
00:34:29.560 Japan
00:34:29.960 was the
00:34:30.420 lowest
00:34:30.780 at $3
00:34:31.980 per ton
00:34:33.280 of CO2
00:34:34.060 emissions
00:34:34.460 all the
00:34:34.780 way up
00:34:35.100 to
00:34:35.380 Sweden
00:34:36.140 at
00:34:36.400 I think
00:34:36.680 $127
00:34:38.140 or so
00:34:38.580 and Canada
00:34:39.220 on the
00:34:39.600 lower end
00:34:40.120 at $15
00:34:40.900 and I mean
00:34:41.920 obviously
00:34:42.240 as a Canadian
00:34:43.000 taxpayer
00:34:43.520 I just
00:34:44.200 don't like
00:34:44.600 tax in
00:34:45.060 general
00:34:45.340 so even
00:34:46.280 if it's
00:34:46.580 lower than
00:34:46.940 other
00:34:47.120 countries
00:34:47.500 I would
00:34:47.980 still say
00:34:48.460 that there's
00:34:48.900 a question
00:34:49.480 about whether
00:34:49.980 it's too
00:34:50.380 high
00:34:50.660 but are
00:34:51.500 all of
00:34:51.980 these
00:34:52.180 countries
00:34:52.600 comparable
00:34:53.220 I mean
00:34:53.800 does
00:34:53.980 Canada
00:34:54.360 with its
00:34:54.900 industry
00:34:55.720 that's heavily
00:34:56.280 resource
00:34:56.900 focused
00:34:57.340 have a
00:34:57.920 place
00:34:58.280 and have
00:34:58.560 an ability
00:34:58.960 to compare
00:34:59.540 it with
00:34:59.960 the economies
00:35:01.240 and greenhouse
00:35:01.960 gas
00:35:02.400 emissions
00:35:02.760 plans
00:35:03.600 in Sweden
00:35:04.240 Japan
00:35:04.700 and so
00:35:05.420 on
00:35:05.620 where
00:35:05.820 they don't
00:35:06.460 have that
00:35:06.940 resource sector
00:35:07.820 as strongly
00:35:08.460 as we do
00:35:08.980 so we
00:35:09.820 cannot
00:35:10.200 directly
00:35:10.820 compare
00:35:11.460 those
00:35:11.920 taxes
00:35:12.460 among
00:35:12.800 countries
00:35:13.360 due to
00:35:13.780 some
00:35:14.040 reason
00:35:14.340 because
00:35:14.660 there are
00:35:15.020 differences
00:35:15.580 in those
00:35:16.300 programs
00:35:16.960 for instance
00:35:17.780 in terms
00:35:18.400 of
00:35:18.660 in some
00:35:19.340 countries
00:35:19.760 some
00:35:20.340 sectors
00:35:20.820 get
00:35:21.200 compensation
00:35:21.780 or some
00:35:22.640 sectors
00:35:23.040 get
00:35:23.420 exempted
00:35:24.180 from
00:35:24.460 paying
00:35:24.880 carbon
00:35:25.200 taxes
00:35:25.620 or
00:35:26.240 in
00:35:26.440 some
00:35:26.680 countries
00:35:27.020 we see
00:35:27.440 that
00:35:27.640 the
00:35:27.840 taxes
00:35:28.320 apply
00:35:29.000 to
00:35:29.520 all
00:35:29.980 the
00:35:30.440 emissions
00:35:31.920 basically
00:35:32.680 generated
00:35:33.700 in the
00:35:34.540 country
00:35:34.960 whereas
00:35:35.260 in some
00:35:35.700 other
00:35:35.920 countries
00:35:36.400 it's
00:35:36.660 only
00:35:36.900 a share
00:35:37.620 of
00:35:37.880 emission
00:35:38.240 a portion
00:35:38.860 of
00:35:39.100 emission
00:35:39.440 not
00:35:39.720 the
00:35:39.940 whole
00:35:40.360 basically
00:35:42.800 emissions
00:35:43.320 generated
00:35:43.880 so
00:35:44.540 because
00:35:45.240 of
00:35:45.520 those
00:35:45.780 differences
00:35:46.500 within
00:35:47.100 countries
00:35:47.780 we
00:35:48.020 cannot
00:35:48.360 really
00:35:48.940 directly
00:35:49.780 compare
00:35:50.380 those
00:35:51.180 carbon
00:35:51.580 taxes
00:35:52.120 between
00:35:52.800 countries
00:35:53.940 so
00:35:55.580 I guess
00:35:56.040 the big
00:35:56.360 question
00:35:56.720 is
00:35:57.040 are we
00:35:58.480 talking
00:35:58.900 about
00:35:59.320 tweaks
00:35:59.880 that could
00:36:00.320 be made
00:36:00.980 to
00:36:01.400 Canada's
00:36:02.200 carbon
00:36:02.580 tax
00:36:02.960 in order
00:36:03.300 to bring
00:36:03.620 it
00:36:03.720 in alignment
00:36:04.120 with what
00:36:04.480 you're
00:36:04.620 saying
00:36:04.940 or
00:36:05.140 would it
00:36:05.620 really
00:36:05.820 have to
00:36:06.200 go back
00:36:06.540 to the
00:36:06.780 drawing
00:36:07.100 board
00:36:07.360 and start
00:36:07.900 from
00:36:08.120 scratch
00:36:08.540 to qualify
00:36:09.180 as being
00:36:09.840 an
00:36:10.320 effective
00:36:10.700 and
00:36:10.880 efficient
00:36:11.240 plan
00:36:12.020 yeah
00:36:12.660 I think
00:36:13.260 we can
00:36:13.880 make
00:36:14.160 some
00:36:14.540 tweaks
00:36:15.240 or
00:36:15.480 reforms
00:36:16.020 you know
00:36:16.460 to
00:36:16.800 make
00:36:17.320 it
00:36:17.620 basically
00:36:18.120 a
00:36:18.380 well
00:36:18.600 designed
00:36:18.940 carbon
00:36:19.280 pricing
00:36:19.680 policy
00:36:20.240 another
00:36:21.060 main
00:36:21.580 issue
00:36:21.860 in
00:36:22.040 Canada
00:36:22.340 is
00:36:22.600 that
00:36:22.900 the
00:36:24.100 federal
00:36:24.380 carbon
00:36:24.820 tax
00:36:25.420 is
00:36:25.740 accompanied
00:36:26.340 by so
00:36:27.260 many
00:36:27.740 other
00:36:28.180 regulatory
00:36:29.320 measures
00:36:30.020 for example
00:36:31.200 we have
00:36:31.920 a regulate
00:36:32.580 and all
00:36:33.400 those
00:36:33.620 regulations
00:36:34.220 have the
00:36:34.820 same
00:36:35.200 target
00:36:35.760 or
00:36:36.220 objective
00:36:36.700 and that's
00:36:37.500 actually
00:36:37.960 the issue
00:36:38.460 for example
00:36:39.260 we have
00:36:39.640 a regulation
00:36:40.320 to phase
00:36:41.060 out
00:36:41.460 coal
00:36:42.020 fire
00:36:42.360 power
00:36:42.700 plants
00:36:43.120 by 2030
00:36:44.000 we have
00:36:44.700 a regulation
00:36:45.480 on methane
00:36:47.120 emissions
00:36:47.760 in the oil
00:36:48.420 and gas
00:36:48.860 sector
00:36:49.280 we have
00:36:50.580 an ethanol
00:36:51.360 regulation
00:36:52.300 to reduce
00:36:53.540 greenhouse gas
00:36:54.620 emissions
00:36:55.060 in the
00:36:55.480 transportation
00:36:56.040 sector
00:36:56.760 the federal
00:36:57.620 government
00:36:58.080 has also
00:36:58.940 you know
00:36:59.700 proposed
00:37:00.200 this sweeping
00:37:00.860 regulation
00:37:01.580 called
00:37:02.080 clean fuel
00:37:03.380 standard
00:37:03.880 to decarbonize
00:37:05.980 fuel use
00:37:06.980 in the country
00:37:08.040 so all
00:37:09.240 all these
00:37:09.620 regulations
00:37:10.320 that have
00:37:11.240 the same
00:37:11.880 objective
00:37:12.420 they have
00:37:12.900 the same
00:37:13.340 target
00:37:13.780 when we
00:37:14.280 accompany
00:37:15.120 those
00:37:15.620 regulations
00:37:16.720 with the
00:37:17.600 federal
00:37:17.880 carbon tax
00:37:19.040 all those
00:37:19.820 regulations
00:37:20.280 are going
00:37:20.800 to increase
00:37:21.260 the cost
00:37:21.900 of reducing
00:37:23.260 emissions
00:37:24.040 without generating
00:37:27.140 any significant
00:37:29.780 marginal
00:37:30.440 benefit
00:37:31.080 so that's
00:37:32.920 one of the
00:37:33.520 main issues
00:37:34.280 with
00:37:34.660 federal
00:37:35.380 government's
00:37:36.080 carbon tax
00:37:36.680 the other
00:37:37.280 issue
00:37:37.660 is
00:37:38.060 as I
00:37:38.760 discussed
00:37:39.560 is that
00:37:40.980 the way
00:37:41.620 the federal
00:37:42.500 government
00:37:42.940 is recycling
00:37:44.180 its carbon
00:37:44.920 tax revenues
00:37:46.060 is not ideal
00:37:47.420 this is not
00:37:48.200 what economists
00:37:49.020 have in mind
00:37:50.040 the federal
00:37:50.880 government
00:37:51.240 should be using
00:37:52.120 carbon tax
00:37:53.080 revenues
00:37:53.560 to reduce
00:37:54.600 other costly
00:37:55.480 taxes
00:37:55.960 such as
00:37:57.280 personal
00:37:57.680 or business
00:37:58.260 income tax
00:37:59.440 rates
00:37:59.780 again
00:38:00.140 this is not
00:38:00.900 happening
00:38:01.340 in Canada
00:38:02.000 and we have
00:38:02.840 also seen
00:38:03.460 that the
00:38:03.820 federal government
00:38:04.440 is now
00:38:05.520 using
00:38:07.280 10%
00:38:08.920 of its
00:38:09.440 carbon tax
00:38:10.280 revenues
00:38:11.580 to
00:38:12.960 basically
00:38:14.720 pursue
00:38:15.180 some
00:38:15.520 environmental
00:38:16.140 goals
00:38:16.720 because
00:38:17.160 that 10%
00:38:19.140 goes to
00:38:20.480 small and
00:38:21.140 medium sized
00:38:22.100 companies
00:38:23.180 and some
00:38:23.940 other
00:38:24.460 organizations
00:38:25.900 such as
00:38:26.580 schools
00:38:27.140 and
00:38:27.580 hospitals
00:38:28.400 for their
00:38:29.800 energy
00:38:30.840 efficiency
00:38:31.460 programs
00:38:32.180 meaning
00:38:32.500 that
00:38:32.920 the
00:38:33.540 government
00:38:33.920 is
00:38:34.200 using
00:38:34.980 that
00:38:35.460 revenue
00:38:35.840 to pursue
00:38:36.500 some
00:38:36.940 environmental
00:38:38.020 goals
00:38:39.220 and
00:38:39.560 this is
00:38:40.540 not
00:38:40.740 something
00:38:41.200 that
00:38:41.680 we should
00:38:42.500 be doing
00:38:43.020 again
00:38:43.420 we should
00:38:45.280 be
00:38:45.760 having
00:38:46.520 a well
00:38:47.000 designed
00:38:47.600 carbon
00:38:48.580 pricing
00:38:49.020 policy
00:38:49.480 so that
00:38:49.920 we can
00:38:50.380 deliver
00:38:52.180 emission
00:38:52.740 reductions
00:38:53.360 in an
00:38:54.640 efficient
00:38:54.960 way
00:38:55.360 the
00:38:56.720 report
00:38:57.240 from the
00:38:57.540 Fraser
00:38:57.780 Institute
00:38:58.160 carbon
00:38:58.540 pricing
00:38:59.000 in
00:38:59.300 high
00:38:59.600 income
00:38:59.980 OECD
00:39:00.680 countries
00:39:01.180 and you
00:39:01.860 can check
00:39:02.180 that out
00:39:02.700 online
00:39:03.640 we'll have
00:39:04.060 a link
00:39:04.460 in the
00:39:04.700 description
00:39:05.020 box
00:39:05.440 the author
00:39:06.380 of the
00:39:06.680 report
00:39:06.980 Dr.
00:39:07.420 Elmira
00:39:07.780 Aliakbari
00:39:08.480 Associate
00:39:08.920 Director
00:39:09.380 of Natural
00:39:10.040 Resources
00:39:10.540 for the
00:39:11.000 Fraser
00:39:11.260 Institute
00:39:11.640 joins me
00:39:12.200 on the
00:39:12.880 line
00:39:13.100 now
00:39:13.300 Dr.
00:39:13.660 Aliakbari
00:39:14.200 thank you
00:39:14.620 very much
00:39:15.040 for coming
00:39:15.480 on today
00:39:15.880 great to
00:39:16.260 speak
00:39:16.500 with you
00:39:16.980 thanks
00:39:18.340 for having
00:39:18.960 me
00:39:19.300 it's funny
00:39:20.400 I know
00:39:20.980 I'm going
00:39:21.520 to get
00:39:21.680 a lot
00:39:21.980 of nasty
00:39:22.760 messages
00:39:23.320 from a lot
00:39:23.820 of people
00:39:24.140 who are
00:39:24.580 like me
00:39:25.220 in the
00:39:25.480 I don't
00:39:25.840 want any
00:39:26.320 carbon tax
00:39:27.120 camp
00:39:27.800 and I
00:39:28.100 think that's
00:39:28.560 an entirely
00:39:29.100 defensible
00:39:29.760 and justifiable
00:39:30.760 position
00:39:31.300 but I do
00:39:32.420 think it's
00:39:32.780 interesting
00:39:33.260 that there
00:39:34.300 are a lot
00:39:34.920 of people
00:39:35.440 in Canada
00:39:36.260 and I'd
00:39:36.600 say there
00:39:36.820 are probably
00:39:37.060 a lot
00:39:37.300 of people
00:39:37.600 in the
00:39:37.960 Liberal
00:39:38.300 Party
00:39:38.640 that are
00:39:39.020 true believers
00:39:40.260 in the sense
00:39:40.780 that yes
00:39:41.120 they think
00:39:41.500 environmental
00:39:41.920 issues
00:39:42.780 are these
00:39:43.460 crippling
00:39:43.820 threats
00:39:44.080 to humanity
00:39:44.660 but they're
00:39:45.600 also people
00:39:46.480 that want
00:39:47.360 good effective
00:39:48.720 policy
00:39:49.380 and that's
00:39:50.040 the thing
00:39:50.320 and I'm
00:39:50.580 kind of at
00:39:50.920 this point
00:39:51.260 where if
00:39:51.660 there's going
00:39:52.240 to be a
00:39:52.760 carbon tax
00:39:53.380 if we're
00:39:53.640 going to
00:39:53.780 go down
00:39:54.060 this road
00:39:54.480 let's at
00:39:55.500 least make
00:39:56.040 it revenue
00:39:56.480 neutral
00:39:56.840 and let's
00:39:57.600 at least
00:39:57.940 not just
00:39:58.600 treat it
00:39:59.100 as a
00:39:59.540 general tax
00:40:00.460 and this
00:40:00.780 is one
00:40:01.080 of the
00:40:01.260 big things
00:40:01.700 that was
00:40:01.980 coming up
00:40:02.480 and I
00:40:03.000 was in
00:40:03.260 the whole
00:40:03.660 week of
00:40:04.400 trial for
00:40:05.520 the Ontario
00:40:06.240 carbon tax
00:40:06.940 court case
00:40:07.400 that would
00:40:07.680 have been
00:40:07.880 what April
00:40:08.820 2019
00:40:09.420 I think
00:40:09.900 that was
00:40:10.260 at Osgood
00:40:10.720 Hall
00:40:10.960 and it was
00:40:12.360 amazing how
00:40:13.260 the government
00:40:13.700 was trying to
00:40:14.280 pretend this
00:40:14.720 isn't a tax
00:40:15.440 and that was
00:40:16.120 one of their
00:40:16.460 lead arguments
00:40:17.120 and I think
00:40:17.920 unfortunately
00:40:18.340 the court
00:40:18.720 actually agreed
00:40:19.520 with them
00:40:19.880 that it's
00:40:20.240 a regulatory
00:40:20.960 charge
00:40:21.660 not a tax
00:40:22.660 but when
00:40:23.700 Canadians
00:40:24.240 are paying
00:40:25.120 it
00:40:25.460 it doesn't
00:40:26.780 matter what
00:40:27.320 you call it
00:40:27.920 it's money
00:40:28.480 out of a
00:40:29.040 Canadian's
00:40:29.680 pocket
00:40:30.040 and when
00:40:31.200 this is just
00:40:31.760 going into
00:40:32.480 basically
00:40:33.100 infrastructure
00:40:33.840 green
00:40:34.520 slush funds
00:40:35.760 that aren't
00:40:36.220 actually being
00:40:37.140 put towards
00:40:37.840 the stated
00:40:38.840 purpose of it
00:40:39.620 that aren't
00:40:39.920 having an effect
00:40:40.620 it's something
00:40:41.720 that we need
00:40:42.200 to push back
00:40:42.720 again
00:40:42.980 so to bring
00:40:43.740 it around
00:40:44.060 to that
00:40:44.280 interview
00:40:44.560 even if
00:40:45.540 you're like
00:40:46.060 me and
00:40:46.320 you're saying
00:40:46.640 I'm team
00:40:47.220 anti-carbon
00:40:47.780 tax
00:40:48.080 that's fine
00:40:48.660 but I think
00:40:49.560 this report
00:40:50.040 is valuable
00:40:50.540 because it's
00:40:51.060 saying if
00:40:51.880 you are going
00:40:52.380 to go down
00:40:52.720 this road
00:40:53.160 there's a
00:40:53.520 right way
00:40:53.880 and a
00:40:54.080 wrong way
00:40:54.440 to do
00:40:54.800 it
00:40:54.980 and all
00:40:55.740 of these
00:40:56.080 governments
00:40:56.480 that have
00:40:56.940 consumed
00:40:57.340 the Kool-Aid
00:40:57.900 are very
00:40:58.440 much going
00:40:58.940 down the
00:40:59.620 wrong way
00:41:00.640 on that
00:41:01.700 so do
00:41:02.680 check out
00:41:03.060 the report
00:41:03.460 and let me
00:41:03.960 know what
00:41:04.200 you think
00:41:04.480 with that
00:41:05.360 being said
00:41:05.780 we have
00:41:06.080 to wrap
00:41:06.380 things up
00:41:06.780 for today
00:41:07.340 my thanks
00:41:07.780 to all
00:41:08.060 of you
00:41:08.300 for tuning
00:41:08.920 in and
00:41:09.220 again to
00:41:09.640 Dr.
00:41:10.440 Elmira
00:41:10.860 Aliakbari
00:41:11.580 from the
00:41:12.040 Fraser Institute
00:41:12.680 we'll talk
00:41:13.360 to you next
00:41:13.720 week with
00:41:14.160 more of
00:41:14.720 Canada's
00:41:15.200 most irreverent
00:41:16.040 talk show
00:41:16.460 thank you
00:41:17.140 God bless
00:41:17.620 and good
00:41:17.980 day
00:41:18.200 if you
00:41:19.540 enjoy the
00:41:19.980 show and
00:41:20.300 want to
00:41:20.540 hear more
00:41:20.960 of it
00:41:21.240 we need
00:41:22.040 your support
00:41:22.860 head on
00:41:23.480 over to
00:41:24.000 andrewlaughtonshow.com
00:41:25.740 and click
00:41:26.440 donate to
00:41:27.120 support the
00:41:27.600 work that
00:41:27.920 we're doing
00:41:28.320 and stand
00:41:28.980 up for
00:41:29.300 independent
00:41:29.760 media
00:41:30.180 thanks for
00:41:30.740 listening to
00:41:31.220 the Andrew
00:41:31.620 Lawton show
00:41:32.240 support the
00:41:32.960 program by
00:41:33.500 donating to
00:41:34.080 true north
00:41:34.520 at www.tnc.news