Juno News - Everything's a Confidence Motion

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.700 This is The Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.900 Coming up, the NDP sells out to the Liberals for nothing in return.

00:00:17.440 Should air passengers get refunds and carbon taxes, do they work?

00:00:23.700 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:30.000 Well, crisis averted for now.

00:00:33.060 Canadians not heading back to the polls as the Liberals succeed in a confidence motion of sorts.

00:00:40.400 Welcome to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:00:42.280 It is Thursday, October 22nd, 2020.

00:00:45.980 And yes, the Liberals have decided just to make everything a confidence motion now.

00:00:49.920 And it's a great strategy, really, because it means that if the Liberals think they're going to lose a vote,

00:00:56.400 they just say it's a confidence motion.

00:00:58.340 And then all of a sudden, the backbone-less NDP will have to go and side with the Liberals

00:01:04.260 because the NDP, at all costs, wants to avoid another election.

00:01:08.220 That seems to be how we can kind of analyze and parse what happened this past week.

00:01:13.100 The Conservatives were trying to create an anti-corruption committee,

00:01:17.180 a committee that would consolidate the efforts that are underway with health and ethics and finance,

00:01:22.980 and make one singular committee that would actually take aim at Justin Trudeau's spending

00:01:28.140 and take aim at the government's track record on things

00:01:31.560 and also the numerous ethical breaches that have happened under Justin Trudeau's watch.

00:01:37.440 And the rationale for this, and it was political posturing, of course,

00:01:41.220 but the rationale for this is that it takes it off the plate of all of these other committees

00:01:45.180 that have important work to do

00:01:47.000 and creates a new committee that can be just focused on exploring Justin Trudeau's ethical lapses.

00:01:52.820 What a great idea.

00:01:53.520 I think it's actually fantastic.

00:01:55.420 And Justin Trudeau does not clearly,

00:01:58.200 which is why the Liberals not only fought it,

00:02:00.880 but used the only tool they could think of

00:02:03.500 to make sure the committee would never get off the ground

00:02:07.180 because they don't want anyone poking around.

00:02:09.000 The Liberals don't want anyone answering the questions that this committee would be asking.

00:02:14.200 So the Liberals say it's now a confidence motion.

00:02:17.740 They can just kind of say that.

00:02:20.400 It doesn't need to be true,

00:02:22.100 but it also means then that the NDP is forced to just go along with it

00:02:27.460 because you may remember the New Democrats have already kind of decided

00:02:30.620 they're going to get in bed with the Liberals. 0.94

00:02:32.480 They backed the throne speech.

00:02:34.200 There was that one interview,

00:02:35.160 and I'm going to keep referencing it over and over again,

00:02:37.260 in which Jagmeet Singh said he wasn't ruling out,

00:02:40.540 potentially propping up the Liberals for the next three years.

00:02:45.140 And the Liberals have now learned that this trick works.

00:02:49.140 The Liberals have now learned that they can just do this.

00:02:51.180 If they think they're going to lose a vote,

00:02:53.180 just say it's a confidence vote,

00:02:54.940 and all of a sudden, boom, the NDP will be on their side.

00:02:58.840 There's a round two coming up.

00:03:00.620 This week, the debate is happening.

00:03:02.860 I don't think the vote's until Monday of next week,

00:03:05.080 but another Opposition Day motion from the Conservatives

00:03:08.320 that would basically do something very similar,

00:03:10.980 but specifically on the health file.

00:03:13.240 So a health committee that, again,

00:03:15.300 the Liberals are going to say is a confidence motion,

00:03:18.280 thus will force the NDP to support it.

00:03:21.540 Now, this particular motion is interesting,

00:03:24.360 and this is going to be one to watch

00:03:25.960 because the NDP had actually backed this motion in committee

00:03:30.100 when Michelle Rempel-Garner introduced it

00:03:32.680 on the health committee a little while ago.

00:03:34.760 And at the time, the Liberals have said,

00:03:36.140 oh, this is just such a massive motion.

00:03:37.800 We need time to go through it and give us a few days,

00:03:41.240 give us a little while.

00:03:42.340 But the NDP supported it.

00:03:44.760 The NDP supported it.

00:03:46.320 And this is a very important part of this.

00:03:48.800 And if the NDP opposes it in the House of Commons,

00:03:53.180 again, supporting in committee

00:03:54.400 doesn't mean you have to support it in the House.

00:03:56.180 If they supported it in committee

00:03:57.840 and opposed it in the House of Commons,

00:04:00.340 it will prove that they have no consistency whatsoever,

00:04:04.340 that they have no grounding in what they actually believe,

00:04:07.460 that they are simply just trying to prop the Liberals up.

00:04:11.420 And there are myriad theories for why this is the case.

00:04:14.620 The prevailing one, certainly in my circles,

00:04:17.060 is that the NDP simply doesn't have the money

00:04:19.360 to run an election.

00:04:20.740 They had a poor showing in the last election.

00:04:24.320 They kind of thought they won,

00:04:25.320 like Jagmeet Singh was thrilled about his performance,

00:04:27.980 even though the NDP became the fourth party.

00:04:30.860 But the NDP just doesn't have the money

00:04:32.860 to run a full-fledged national election.

00:04:35.380 Now, the irony is that it's never going to be cheaper

00:04:38.360 than it is now to run an election

00:04:40.540 because you know that it's not going to involve

00:04:43.120 as much travel,

00:04:44.120 which is one of the most prohibitive costs

00:04:45.740 of national campaigns.

00:04:47.420 It's gonna be a very virtual, very Zoom-oriented. 0.70

00:04:51.040 It's going to be a pretty bare-bones campaign,

00:04:53.760 and probably a short campaign

00:04:55.460 if we were to have an election right now.

00:04:57.620 But the irony is that people are so used

00:05:00.140 to the old way of doing things,

00:05:01.940 they don't realize that, hey,

00:05:03.040 that doesn't need to be a prohibitive factor right now.

00:05:06.440 But this confidence vote

00:05:08.400 that could be coming up next week

00:05:10.400 is an interesting one

00:05:11.400 because the Liberals were saying that,

00:05:13.620 oh, there's too much information

00:05:14.900 that would be required

00:05:16.020 because the bill or the committee

00:05:18.140 would basically have the government

00:05:20.160 turn over memos, emails, documents,

00:05:23.540 notes, or other records

00:05:24.760 from the Prime Minister's office,

00:05:26.380 the Privy Council office,

00:05:27.600 various ministers' offices and departments,

00:05:29.920 and the Public Health Agency of Canada

00:05:31.880 related to pandemic plans,

00:05:33.620 the WHO,

00:05:34.900 purchase of personal protective equipment,

00:05:37.500 and so on.

00:05:39.060 And it's basically a supercharged

00:05:41.340 Access to Information Act.

00:05:42.840 That's the best way,

00:05:43.960 or Access to Information Request.

00:05:45.440 That's the best way of kind of looking

00:05:47.260 at what this is.

00:05:48.280 And the government's saying,

00:05:49.220 oh, we don't have time to do that

00:05:50.340 because we're focusing on the pandemic.

00:05:52.240 So they're, again, going to say

00:05:54.740 that this committee would just be

00:05:57.440 too disruptive to the work of the government,

00:05:59.500 ergo, it would be a confidence motion.

00:06:01.960 That's the most likely path forward.

00:06:05.160 So here's the thing, though.

00:06:06.780 The NDP couldn't even own 0.83

00:06:09.200 the decision it made yesterday.

00:06:11.360 I don't know if you saw this.

00:06:12.180 Jagmeet Singh did a press conference

00:06:13.640 before the vote,

00:06:15.240 and he wouldn't even give a straight answer

00:06:17.500 on what his party would do.

00:06:19.260 He had said that he was going to vote

00:06:20.780 against an election,

00:06:22.100 but wouldn't really say

00:06:24.420 what he was going to vote for.

00:06:26.300 Were they going to abstain or stick around?

00:06:28.160 And he gave this really bizarre line

00:06:29.960 when asked what that means.

00:06:31.680 He said, you'll find out the answer

00:06:33.920 to that very soon.

00:06:35.500 Here's the clip.

00:06:37.160 So earlier you were asked

00:06:38.220 if your caucus is going to abstain

00:06:39.460 or vote against the conservative motion.

00:06:41.000 We're kind of vague on that.

00:06:41.680 If you simply abstain,

00:06:42.560 there's still a chance the government

00:06:43.320 could fall given the numbers in the House.

00:06:44.760 Can you offer more clarity now?

00:06:45.740 Are you going to vote against

00:06:46.320 the conservative motion

00:06:46.940 or is your party going to abstain?

00:06:48.720 You'll find out the answer to that

00:06:49.680 very soon, just in a couple hours.

00:06:50.900 But I can tell you again

00:06:51.680 that we are not looking for,

00:06:53.540 we are not going to give the prime minister

00:06:54.440 an excuse to go to an election.

00:06:55.180 He's looking for an election.

00:06:56.000 We're not going to give that to him.

00:06:56.900 So it's almost like he doesn't even know.

00:06:58.520 Like he's trying to give himself

00:06:59.420 a little wiggle room

00:07:00.240 so that if he changes his mind

00:07:01.780 or if his caucus revolts,

00:07:03.000 he's got time.

00:07:04.120 And here's the thing,

00:07:05.060 and I say this to the conservatives

00:07:06.380 as well as to the NDP.

00:07:08.080 If you think the liberal government right now,

00:07:10.580 the Justin Trudeau government

00:07:11.600 is so terrible,

00:07:12.480 if you think it's running things illegally,

00:07:15.100 it's in violation of ethics laws,

00:07:17.000 it's not accountable,

00:07:18.180 it's doing things wrong,

00:07:19.600 it's endangering Canadian lives 1.00

00:07:21.160 and livelihoods,

00:07:22.080 why wouldn't you want an election?

00:07:24.580 Because I do feel that the conservatives

00:07:26.700 are in many cases

00:07:27.720 trying to play both sides of this.

00:07:29.160 They're trying to say,

00:07:29.880 this guy's terrible,

00:07:31.000 he's got to go,

00:07:31.660 we're going to vote against him

00:07:32.580 and oppose him at every step.

00:07:33.880 But then they're also,

00:07:34.820 on the other hand,

00:07:35.300 saying, oh, we're not talking

00:07:36.400 about an election.

00:07:37.380 Oh, no, no, no,

00:07:37.900 it's only Justin Trudeau

00:07:39.160 that's talking about an election.

00:07:40.160 We don't want that.

00:07:41.660 Whereas I'm like, just own it.

00:07:43.260 And I get that they don't want to look like

00:07:45.220 they are just wanting to send people

00:07:47.200 to the polls in a pandemic,

00:07:48.700 but the pandemic excuse

00:07:50.320 for not wanting an election is over now.

00:07:54.000 It's been long enough.

00:07:55.740 We will be coming up in January

00:07:58.140 or I guess March,

00:07:59.280 if we want to go with

00:08:00.020 when Canadians started getting locked down.

00:08:02.120 We'll be coming up in March

00:08:03.360 on a full year

00:08:04.540 that we've been in this world.

00:08:06.180 Already, it is more than a year

00:08:08.060 after last year's election.

00:08:10.420 When Canadians are looking at the fact

00:08:13.200 that there's an election in BC,

00:08:14.820 there's an election in Saskatchewan,

00:08:16.740 there's an election in New Brunswick,

00:08:18.540 and I realize these aren't

00:08:19.520 the largest provinces in Canada,

00:08:21.540 but when three of Canada's provinces

00:08:23.520 can have elections without issue,

00:08:25.620 we cannot use the pandemic

00:08:27.540 as an excuse to not go to the polls,

00:08:30.640 especially when they talk

00:08:31.660 about this going on indefinitely.

00:08:33.680 And oh, as we know,

00:08:34.360 the vaccine's going to be,

00:08:35.540 you know, flatten the curve,

00:08:37.180 two weeks to flatten the curve,

00:08:38.400 wait until we have a vaccine.

00:08:39.840 As I said on Twitter the other day,

00:08:41.300 next thing you know,

00:08:41.840 it'll be, we're just going to,

00:08:43.320 you know, hold out

00:08:43.840 until the Leafs win the Stanley Cup.

00:08:45.400 So we're in this whole thing

00:08:46.760 for the long haul.

00:08:47.760 So we can't use this as an excuse

00:08:49.600 to not have elections,

00:08:51.020 to suspend democracy,

00:08:52.520 which is already something

00:08:53.960 that politicians and governments

00:08:55.380 were tempted enough to do

00:08:56.640 in the early days of this pandemic.

00:08:59.320 So if you don't want to run a campaign

00:09:01.740 and you don't want an election,

00:09:02.920 that's fine.

00:09:04.040 Don't use the COVID-19 excuse

00:09:07.160 because it just simply isn't accurate.

00:09:09.760 There's no reason that

00:09:10.720 if we were destined for an election,

00:09:13.060 we couldn't have one and make it work.

00:09:15.560 It would look different,

00:09:16.500 campaigns would look different,

00:09:17.720 but we could go to the polls

00:09:19.060 and do it safely.

00:09:21.060 So liberals are being smart right now

00:09:23.920 when they try to make everything

00:09:25.500 about an election,

00:09:26.360 because again,

00:09:27.440 it brings the NDP right along

00:09:29.180 and the conservatives

00:09:30.260 aren't as clear as they need to be.

00:09:32.240 I would love to have

00:09:33.120 conservative leader Aaron O'Toole

00:09:34.360 come out and say,

00:09:35.440 yeah, these guys have been 0.98

00:09:37.100 screwing the pooch. 0.97

00:09:38.340 I can use that expression.

00:09:39.540 I don't know.

00:09:39.920 Okay, I'll use a different one.

00:09:41.060 These guys have been

00:09:41.940 screwing things up for so long

00:09:44.020 and we need to have change.

00:09:47.120 I'm a conservative leader.

00:09:48.360 I'm ready to go.

00:09:49.260 I didn't want an election right now,

00:09:51.080 but an opportunity is coming up

00:09:52.440 and you know what?

00:09:53.140 Canadians should decide.

00:09:55.040 Because the fear is

00:09:56.240 that Canadians will decide

00:09:57.740 to send Justin Trudeau back to Ottawa.

00:09:59.940 That's the fear.

00:10:01.260 Good morning, Mr. O'Toole.

00:10:02.700 We know that the liberals

00:10:04.120 have, of course,

00:10:05.140 been eager this week

00:10:06.080 to make a confidence motion

00:10:07.560 out of something

00:10:08.060 that wasn't intended as such.

00:10:09.940 My question to you is,

00:10:11.400 why not own the fact

00:10:12.620 that an election

00:10:13.240 might be in the best interest

00:10:14.560 of Canadians,

00:10:15.720 given the charges

00:10:16.740 that the conservatives

00:10:17.540 have been putting against Trudeau

00:10:18.880 on matters of ethics

00:10:20.720 and spending

00:10:21.280 and all of these things.

00:10:22.160 Why not welcome that opportunity?

00:10:24.820 We're doing our job, Andrew,

00:10:26.460 as an opposition

00:10:27.200 to ask questions,

00:10:28.760 to hold the government

00:10:29.340 to account

00:10:29.860 for its ethical scandals

00:10:31.600 and to propose

00:10:32.640 a smarter, faster,

00:10:34.260 and better solution.

00:10:35.060 We've done that

00:10:35.660 with rapid tests.

00:10:37.180 The prime minister said

00:10:38.280 testing was important in March

00:10:39.640 and then did nothing.

00:10:40.840 When the conservatives

00:10:42.040 began asking questions,

00:10:44.220 holding them to account,

00:10:45.200 we had a response.

00:10:46.700 How would an election

00:10:47.920 in the second wave

00:10:49.000 of a pandemic

00:10:49.760 improve our response?

00:10:51.320 How would that help

00:10:52.160 the well-being of Canadians?

00:10:54.440 Mr. Trudeau is willing

00:10:55.740 to put his own

00:10:56.580 political fortunes,

00:10:58.080 a continued cover-up,

00:10:59.740 ahead of the health

00:11:00.380 of Canadians.

00:11:01.500 The fear is that

00:11:02.520 when Canadians are confronted

00:11:03.680 with that choice,

00:11:04.780 Canadians won't actually

00:11:05.840 choose to throw out

00:11:07.060 the liberals,

00:11:08.440 but will actually choose

00:11:09.340 to give the liberals

00:11:10.040 another mandate

00:11:10.760 and potentially

00:11:11.460 even a majority.

00:11:13.380 And there does seem

00:11:14.220 to be a galvanizing effect

00:11:16.200 in a time of crisis

00:11:17.840 where people go

00:11:19.420 with the status quo

00:11:20.600 despite the questions

00:11:21.680 that have been raised

00:11:22.420 and very legitimate questions

00:11:24.000 throughout the course

00:11:24.740 of Justin Trudeau's leadership,

00:11:26.560 even in,

00:11:27.240 and I'd say especially,

00:11:28.240 in the last year.

00:11:30.060 And then you have

00:11:31.080 this ultimate question

00:11:32.240 with the NDP.

00:11:33.340 The NDP knows

00:11:34.480 it's not going to win.

00:11:36.700 The NDP knows

00:11:37.600 that it's not going

00:11:38.420 to become the government.

00:11:40.000 So the NDP wants

00:11:40.940 the most powerful situation

00:11:42.880 possible for itself.

00:11:44.680 And I go back

00:11:45.540 to this article

00:11:46.260 that came out,

00:11:47.280 I think it was in December,

00:11:48.860 in which Jagmeet Singh said

00:11:50.640 he would rather press

00:11:52.020 the liberals

00:11:52.720 than work with the Tories.

00:11:54.720 This was in an interview

00:11:55.580 with the Canadian press.

00:11:57.100 He said,

00:11:57.500 when it comes to the values

00:11:58.600 that I have

00:11:59.280 and have been pushing for,

00:12:00.480 I don't see an alignment

00:12:01.480 with the values

00:12:02.160 the conservatives

00:12:02.780 have pushed forward.

00:12:04.680 And ultimately,

00:12:05.400 he had said

00:12:06.080 the goal would be

00:12:06.880 to push the liberals

00:12:08.480 to do better

00:12:09.300 rather than working

00:12:10.460 with the conservatives.

00:12:11.560 And there's nothing wrong

00:12:12.880 with that.

00:12:13.300 I mean,

00:12:13.460 it's a far left party.

00:12:15.040 Obviously,

00:12:15.380 they're going to go

00:12:15.980 with the other left wing party

00:12:17.340 than the party

00:12:17.940 that is on the right.

00:12:19.860 But in saying this,

00:12:21.160 it reveals that

00:12:22.140 if the choice

00:12:23.420 is between

00:12:24.120 a liberal government

00:12:25.100 or a conservative government,

00:12:27.140 the NDP will always,

00:12:28.860 always,

00:12:29.520 always want

00:12:30.440 the liberal government.

00:12:32.900 So they're not going

00:12:34.300 to go down this road

00:12:35.200 unless they think

00:12:36.100 that they will improve

00:12:37.120 their standing,

00:12:37.900 perhaps come out

00:12:38.740 a la Jack Layton

00:12:40.040 circa 2011.

00:12:41.460 But that's not going to happen.

00:12:42.620 I think the NDP

00:12:43.280 had its shot

00:12:44.100 and blew it.

00:12:45.200 And frankly,

00:12:45.960 I don't think Jagmeet Singh

00:12:46.800 is the leader

00:12:47.680 that could recreate

00:12:49.240 the Jack Layton coalition

00:12:51.180 of the NDP.

00:12:53.120 So when we see

00:12:54.680 the NDP

00:12:55.360 just decide

00:12:56.720 to flounder

00:12:57.760 and not be grounded

00:12:58.980 in anything

00:12:59.460 and just prop up

00:13:00.300 the liberals,

00:13:01.120 I mean,

00:13:01.340 on one hand,

00:13:01.900 I say,

00:13:02.220 yeah, 0.98

00:13:02.400 it's ridiculous 0.99

00:13:03.040 and it's feckless. 0.99

00:13:03.840 But on the other hand,

00:13:04.540 what I say,

00:13:04.860 can you blame them

00:13:05.580 because they don't really

00:13:06.680 have any other options

00:13:07.980 at this point?

00:13:09.300 I mean,

00:13:09.600 when I say floundering,

00:13:10.560 just look at this story

00:13:11.640 in the National Post.

00:13:12.980 I think it was this morning

00:13:13.840 or yesterday evening.

00:13:15.280 NDP needs

00:13:16.280 more conscientious approach

00:13:18.200 to avoid becoming

00:13:19.620 permanent liberal prop up,

00:13:21.580 experts say.

00:13:22.720 And I don't quite disagree

00:13:23.940 with this.

00:13:24.600 The quote that they're

00:13:25.660 actually leaning on,

00:13:26.680 the quote from which

00:13:27.340 they're extracting that

00:13:28.360 is from Kathy Brock,

00:13:29.980 who's a Queens

00:13:30.640 University professor.

00:13:32.140 And she says,

00:13:32.740 the NDP is really

00:13:33.780 going to have to be

00:13:34.620 much more conscientious

00:13:35.640 in Parliament going forward.

00:13:37.360 And that means

00:13:38.260 putting motions on the table

00:13:39.620 that investigate things

00:13:40.560 the government is doing

00:13:41.400 and spending,

00:13:42.540 putting forward measures

00:13:43.600 that the government

00:13:44.580 might have to vote down.

00:13:46.580 But the whole point

00:13:47.400 is that the NDP

00:13:48.260 is not going to do that.

00:13:50.320 I mean,

00:13:50.700 if anything the NDP does,

00:13:52.580 suppose the NDP

00:13:53.320 wants to say,

00:13:54.300 you know what?

00:13:54.640 Yeah,

00:13:54.760 we're going to take aim

00:13:55.500 at this spending

00:13:56.100 or that spending.

00:13:57.120 All the liberals

00:13:57.820 have to do is say,

00:13:58.820 ah,

00:13:59.320 it's going to be

00:14:00.020 a confidence motion.

00:14:01.420 Like,

00:14:01.700 don't be surprised

00:14:02.600 if by the end

00:14:03.860 of this parliamentary session,

00:14:05.200 we've had like

00:14:06.300 a confidence motion a week

00:14:07.540 because the liberals

00:14:08.280 have just discovered

00:14:09.080 that that's their meal ticket

00:14:10.260 to not having any opposition,

00:14:12.480 to actually not being opposed.

00:14:15.320 And this is where

00:14:15.960 I go back to

00:14:16.680 the conservatives

00:14:17.880 needing to actually stand up

00:14:19.780 and fight more forcefully

00:14:21.220 for an election here

00:14:22.600 because they're going to say,

00:14:23.680 oh, no, no, no,

00:14:23.980 we don't need an election.

00:14:24.980 We can oppose

00:14:25.560 through Parliament.

00:14:26.240 But if the government

00:14:27.520 is effectively neutralizing

00:14:29.480 or let's be frank,

00:14:30.820 neutering the opposition

00:14:32.480 by making it so that

00:14:34.620 one of the opposition parties

00:14:36.040 has been bought,

00:14:37.160 then there's not really

00:14:39.040 an opposition mandate

00:14:40.960 that exists

00:14:41.700 in the House of Commons.

00:14:43.220 Opposition is supposed

00:14:44.080 to be strongest

00:14:44.760 in the minority.

00:14:46.560 But what Justin Trudeau

00:14:47.620 has managed to do

00:14:48.700 is dupe the NDP

00:14:50.800 into a coalition government

00:14:52.580 without actually being

00:14:54.120 part of the coalition.

00:14:56.240 Like, remember when

00:14:57.460 there was the big,

00:14:58.360 the infamous,

00:14:58.980 you know, awkward handshake,

00:15:00.400 the coalition between

00:15:01.500 Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe

00:15:03.580 and Stéphane Dion.

00:15:05.560 You know, the thing about

00:15:06.520 that coalition plan in 2008

00:15:09.100 was that there would at least

00:15:10.500 be a formalized coalition.

00:15:12.340 Like, yeah, we are all

00:15:13.240 sitting down at this table together.

00:15:15.420 And as a Canadian,

00:15:16.280 I didn't like it,

00:15:17.160 but politically,

00:15:18.000 that was at least

00:15:19.060 an honest assessment

00:15:20.540 of what they were trying to do.

00:15:22.000 In this particular case,

00:15:23.680 Jagmeet Singh has no power,

00:15:25.200 is getting no concessions.

00:15:27.560 He's not managing

00:15:28.800 to negotiate anything

00:15:30.000 out of the Liberals

00:15:30.760 that the Liberals

00:15:31.340 weren't already doing,

00:15:32.420 but the Liberals

00:15:33.480 are getting the NDP support.

00:15:35.980 So it is a coalition government

00:15:37.860 without the coalition part,

00:15:40.060 which I got to hand it

00:15:41.200 to Justin Trudeau.

00:15:41.960 I know people get mad

00:15:42.720 when I give credit

00:15:43.420 where it's due,

00:15:44.320 but to have this much power

00:15:46.380 without actually offering

00:15:48.220 anything for it

00:15:49.200 is a political accomplishment

00:15:51.380 in and of itself.

00:15:52.460 We've got to take a break.

00:15:53.520 When we come back,

00:15:54.200 more of The Andrew Lawton Show

00:15:55.460 here on True North.

00:15:58.180 You're tuned in

00:15:59.260 to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:16:03.640 Welcome back

00:16:04.360 to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:16:05.680 I try to keep an eye out

00:16:06.940 for different stories

00:16:08.300 that come up

00:16:08.920 that are a little bit odd,

00:16:09.940 off the beaten path things.

00:16:11.460 And this sometimes brings me

00:16:12.660 to really weird ones

00:16:13.980 that I wish I hadn't seen.

00:16:15.800 But my mindset is,

00:16:17.300 if I had to see it,

00:16:18.380 then you have to suffer

00:16:19.240 through it as well.

00:16:19.980 This comes from

00:16:21.500 the River Valley News

00:16:23.380 in the United States,

00:16:24.940 a Fox local station

00:16:26.200 in Oklahoma.

00:16:27.760 And that will become

00:16:28.540 less surprising to you

00:16:29.900 in a moment.

00:16:31.040 Two LaFleur County men,

00:16:32.440 there they are there,

00:16:33.180 were arrested on numerous charges,

00:16:35.080 including desecration

00:16:36.020 of a human member

00:16:37.000 and outraging public decency

00:16:39.220 with gross injury,

00:16:40.920 according to LaFleur County

00:16:42.440 Sheriff Rodney Derryberry,

00:16:45.060 which there's just a lot

00:16:46.860 that's weird about this story.

00:16:47.880 And Sheriff Rodney Derryberry

00:16:49.480 is one of them.

00:16:51.740 The two men were charged

00:16:53.280 with a number of things.

00:16:54.440 A desecration of a human member

00:16:55.740 is the one I want to focus in

00:16:57.040 on right now.

00:16:58.720 But here's the thing.

00:17:00.820 Apparently, Sheriff Derryberry says

00:17:02.980 someone was dropped off

00:17:04.240 on October 14th

00:17:05.980 at McAllister Hospital

00:17:07.200 who had had a crude

00:17:08.820 surgical procedure done,

00:17:10.500 evidently not done

00:17:11.420 by professionals.

00:17:12.920 When they investigated it,

00:17:14.960 they had been able

00:17:15.840 to confirm that, 1.00

00:17:16.740 quote, a man's penis 1.00

00:17:18.580 was cut off. 1.00

00:17:19.740 But here's the kicker.

00:17:21.500 The victim was a willing

00:17:23.180 participant in the dismemberment.

00:17:26.720 Now, they're still being charged.

00:17:28.600 But the lesson in this

00:17:29.640 is that even if you are

00:17:30.620 in Oklahoma

00:17:31.080 and you want like a very crude

00:17:33.820 and discount

00:17:35.520 castration procedure,

00:17:37.040 you're not allowed to get it

00:17:38.020 from these smiling chaps

00:17:39.980 who look way too happy

00:17:41.440 about being arrested for this.

00:17:42.560 But hey, if the guy

00:17:43.020 was a willing participant,

00:17:44.720 I don't know why

00:17:45.720 they're charging,

00:17:46.400 but it really reinforces

00:17:47.640 that idea of desecration

00:17:48.560 of a human member.

00:17:50.220 I'll see myself out.

00:17:51.600 What else do we have

00:17:52.540 going on here?

00:17:53.700 This one is a lot

00:17:54.600 more wholesome.

00:17:55.580 A high schooler

00:17:56.520 has decided to take

00:17:57.480 his creative Halloween costume

00:17:58.940 for a spin

00:17:59.960 around the neighborhood.

00:18:01.040 This clip is from

00:18:01.920 CBC's The National.

00:18:03.160 Oh, I know this is my Halloween costume.

00:18:08.160 Well, we started building it

00:18:09.540 about three months ago.

00:18:10.780 With all the pandemic,

00:18:12.700 we couldn't,

00:18:13.700 there were no parades left.

00:18:15.140 So we came to Halloween costume.

00:18:18.700 The Sherman tank

00:18:19.320 is one of my favorites.

00:18:20.540 So the plan was to get

00:18:21.620 a little electric engine,

00:18:23.740 broken wheelchair,

00:18:24.620 broken mobility scooter,

00:18:25.620 and build something

00:18:26.920 that we could be,

00:18:27.600 he could drive in the parade.

00:18:28.600 We spent quite a lot of time

00:18:30.600 collecting cardboard,

00:18:31.980 found a Sherman tank

00:18:33.340 that Canadians served in 0.95

00:18:35.340 during World War II.

00:18:36.440 This is how it would look

00:18:37.320 except scale down

00:18:38.940 and, you know,

00:18:40.920 James sized.

00:18:41.760 I have this drawstring bag

00:18:44.020 for holding candies

00:18:45.280 to give to people.

00:18:46.560 Everybody, everybody loves it.

00:18:48.700 That is absolutely fantastic.

00:18:51.100 So I've never been

00:18:52.280 an artsy person

00:18:53.340 in any way whatsoever.

00:18:55.200 Well, no, sorry.

00:18:55.800 I am on like

00:18:56.400 non-visual arts thing.

00:18:57.980 I can play piano very well.

00:18:59.620 I can hum a tune.

00:19:00.360 I once did a duet

00:19:01.260 with Tal Bachman

00:19:02.240 and Michelle Bachman.

00:19:04.180 It was a duet

00:19:04.760 because I was singing

00:19:05.420 with Michelle Bachman

00:19:06.300 and Tal was accompanying.

00:19:07.520 So I'm not like not artsy.

00:19:09.700 I just can't draw

00:19:10.700 or sketch or mold

00:19:11.620 or sculpt or anything like that.

00:19:13.320 But this is,

00:19:14.320 I mean, tremendous.

00:19:15.660 And the Sherman tank,

00:19:16.760 again, a very significant

00:19:18.000 historical piece in Canada.

00:19:20.020 A lot of work went into it,

00:19:21.340 the engineering strength.

00:19:23.040 And it's a really good news story

00:19:24.760 in Halloween,

00:19:25.500 especially when governments

00:19:26.380 are telling people

00:19:27.120 not to do Halloween.

00:19:29.220 But then you look

00:19:29.960 at the replies

00:19:31.160 and granted,

00:19:32.940 it's a small sample size here.

00:19:34.420 But the first one,

00:19:35.400 this is kind of disturbing,

00:19:36.700 CBC and someone else.

00:19:38.380 Are we really celebrating

00:19:39.400 war and mobiles of violence

00:19:41.200 with everything

00:19:41.800 that's happening

00:19:42.360 in Nova Scotia?

00:19:43.660 Someone else says

00:19:44.400 white people

00:19:45.120 and then someone else says

00:19:46.980 state-run media

00:19:48.160 must be stopped.

00:19:49.460 Now, I don't disagree

00:19:50.460 with the sentiment,

00:19:51.240 but I don't think

00:19:51.940 that has to do

00:19:52.540 with the tank Halloween.

00:19:54.920 I don't even know

00:19:55.380 if you can call it

00:19:55.880 a costume necessarily,

00:19:57.200 but well done.

00:19:59.020 I would absolutely love

00:20:00.120 to see that rolling

00:20:01.040 down my street.

00:20:02.200 And you're never going

00:20:02.680 to be as socially distanced

00:20:03.780 as you are

00:20:04.400 if you are hanging out

00:20:06.260 in a tank during Halloween.

00:20:08.400 Let's talk a little bit

00:20:09.580 about the airline industry

00:20:11.360 because I spoke last week

00:20:13.060 or two weeks ago

00:20:13.760 whenever it was

00:20:14.400 about being in

00:20:15.220 an Air Canada focus group.

00:20:16.540 I used to,

00:20:17.200 in a distant world,

00:20:18.640 be a frequent flyer

00:20:20.280 because of all of the,

00:20:21.580 you know,

00:20:21.860 things that we're now

00:20:22.900 no longer allowed to do.

00:20:24.400 But one of the big battles,

00:20:25.580 and I'd like to focus

00:20:26.760 on this in a bit more detail

00:20:28.120 and probably get

00:20:29.480 Gabor Lukash on the show

00:20:31.180 who's been a great advocate

00:20:32.400 for air passengers' rights.

00:20:34.180 But WestJet has caved

00:20:35.780 in the refund

00:20:37.360 versus credit battle

00:20:38.820 that airlines have been

00:20:40.520 for the most part

00:20:41.260 trying to stay back from.

00:20:43.540 Right now,

00:20:44.260 if you have had

00:20:45.160 a cancelled trip,

00:20:46.700 even if the airline

00:20:47.620 cancels it,

00:20:48.720 they're not going

00:20:49.420 to give you a refund

00:20:50.360 with Air Canada

00:20:51.280 or up until now WestJet.

00:20:53.040 More on that in a moment.

00:20:54.240 What they're going to do

00:20:54.960 is give you a credit

00:20:56.520 that you can then use

00:20:57.600 at any point.

00:20:58.780 And I don't even think

00:20:59.340 they expire now

00:21:00.160 because there's just so much

00:21:01.480 that is in limbo

00:21:02.600 and so much uncertainty.

00:21:04.520 But what ended up happening

00:21:05.800 was the airlines

00:21:07.040 were saying,

00:21:07.600 no, no, no,

00:21:08.220 we will only under

00:21:09.440 the passenger rights laws

00:21:11.300 have to give a refund

00:21:12.640 if we cancel

00:21:13.840 for something out of our control.

00:21:15.740 They're saying

00:21:16.560 that the pandemic

00:21:17.200 is not in their control.

00:21:18.460 Ergo,

00:21:18.840 they shouldn't have

00:21:20.660 to give refunds.

00:21:22.140 And there is

00:21:23.120 an economic argument here

00:21:24.540 in that airlines right now

00:21:25.800 are absolutely

00:21:26.720 in terrible shape.

00:21:28.520 The stock prices

00:21:29.420 are a shadow

00:21:30.320 of what they once were.

00:21:32.260 And there's not really

00:21:33.020 an end in sight.

00:21:34.080 The CEO of United Airlines

00:21:35.800 in the U.S.

00:21:36.480 had said that he doesn't think

00:21:37.580 the flying demand

00:21:38.560 will return until 2024.

00:21:41.380 And there is,

00:21:42.620 because of this,

00:21:43.520 the discussion

00:21:44.100 about whether there should be

00:21:45.620 or will be

00:21:46.620 a bailout of sorts.

00:21:47.840 And I think there's

00:21:48.540 a legitimate argument

00:21:49.380 to be made that,

00:21:50.040 look,

00:21:50.560 airlines should not get

00:21:51.500 a cent of taxpayer money

00:21:52.740 when Canadians have millions

00:21:54.740 and in some cases

00:21:55.720 over a billion dollars

00:21:56.920 wrapped up in these airlines

00:21:58.600 in credits.

00:22:00.000 But now WestJet has caved.

00:22:01.600 They're going to provide

00:22:02.380 refunds for flights

00:22:04.300 canceled during the pandemic.

00:22:07.280 They said they're contacting

00:22:08.460 all eligible flyers

00:22:09.600 with WestJet and Swoop,

00:22:11.440 beginning with those

00:22:12.340 whose flights were canceled

00:22:13.300 in March 2020

00:22:14.300 at the onset of the pandemic

00:22:16.020 to offer refunds.

00:22:17.480 The process is going

00:22:18.500 to take six to nine months

00:22:19.840 and they're asking customers,

00:22:21.760 don't call us,

00:22:22.660 we will call you.

00:22:24.080 They're saying that

00:22:24.740 they've heard loud and clear

00:22:25.680 that people want

00:22:26.540 the safest travel environment

00:22:28.140 and refunds.

00:22:29.520 And up until this point,

00:22:30.900 they haven't been able

00:22:31.520 to afford it,

00:22:32.200 but now they're saying

00:22:33.060 that they think

00:22:33.680 they can make it happen.

00:22:35.720 1.2 billion dollars.

00:22:38.440 So this is great.

00:22:39.280 So now Air Canada

00:22:40.100 and WestJet

00:22:40.620 are fighting about this.

00:22:42.580 Air Canada says,

00:22:43.600 misleading statement.

00:22:44.460 WestJet is just now

00:22:45.540 catching up to our policy

00:22:47.260 to refund refundable fares.

00:22:49.280 We have already refunded

00:22:50.780 over 1.2 billion dollars

00:22:52.420 in refundable fares to date.

00:22:56.180 Now, yes,

00:22:56.740 Air Canada will refund you

00:22:57.900 if you bought

00:22:58.760 the refundable fares.

00:22:59.840 Most travelers do not.

00:23:01.360 They travel on one

00:23:02.500 of the cheaper options

00:23:03.420 that's not refundable.

00:23:04.580 But Air Canada's

00:23:05.700 throwing shade here

00:23:06.460 and even tagging WestJet,

00:23:07.660 which gives WestJet

00:23:08.340 the opportunity to respond

00:23:09.640 as they did

00:23:10.760 by saying,

00:23:11.880 let's clear the air.

00:23:13.220 We're offering refunds

00:23:14.540 for guests

00:23:15.560 if we cancel their flight.

00:23:17.540 Even the lowest cost tickets

00:23:19.380 will be refunded

00:23:20.400 to original form of payment

00:23:21.980 if WestJet caused

00:23:23.660 the cancellation,

00:23:24.900 making Air Canada

00:23:25.980 probably really unhappy

00:23:27.620 that it was deciding

00:23:28.640 to wade into this fight

00:23:30.180 because they said

00:23:30.840 in a statement

00:23:31.360 that they're only going

00:23:32.660 to be, again,

00:23:33.300 refunding the refundable tickets.

00:23:35.780 But this is what

00:23:37.160 they should be doing.

00:23:38.200 And I'm going to give

00:23:38.800 some free advice

00:23:39.660 to the airline industry.

00:23:40.760 And I'm borrowing this

00:23:41.960 from what cruise industries

00:23:43.480 have done

00:23:43.940 or the cruise industry

00:23:44.740 has done.

00:23:45.600 And I know this

00:23:46.280 because I work

00:23:47.100 in one particular context

00:23:48.880 in putting together

00:23:49.640 an annual cruise.

00:23:51.080 And what the cruise lines

00:23:53.000 have done,

00:23:53.720 many of them,

00:23:54.340 is say,

00:23:54.660 listen,

00:23:54.940 we'll give you a refund

00:23:55.780 if you want.

00:23:56.240 We canceled it.

00:23:56.980 That's on us.

00:23:58.000 But if you do not

00:24:00.720 want a refund

00:24:02.140 or if you are tempted

00:24:04.320 by this other option,

00:24:05.600 we will give you a credit

00:24:06.800 at 125% value.

00:24:09.800 So you get a 100% refund

00:24:11.580 or you get a 125% credit.

00:24:15.120 So we'll pay you

00:24:16.260 to do whatever it is

00:24:17.560 you want to do with us

00:24:18.360 at another point.

00:24:19.220 And to be honest,

00:24:20.020 that option,

00:24:21.220 if airlines did,

00:24:22.300 it would go a long way

00:24:23.480 to offer goodwill

00:24:24.460 because it would convince people

00:24:25.840 to actually keep their money

00:24:27.800 in the airline,

00:24:28.560 which saves the airlines

00:24:29.880 from the revenue issue.

00:24:31.200 And they spend a little bit

00:24:32.500 more down the road

00:24:33.320 because they have to give

00:24:34.180 the person,

00:24:35.040 maybe it's an upgrade

00:24:35.900 or maybe it's they swap it out

00:24:37.540 for a more expensive flight

00:24:38.620 or whatever the case may be.

00:24:40.020 But they give people the option.

00:24:41.580 And when push comes to shove,

00:24:42.620 you say,

00:24:42.960 listen,

00:24:43.180 we'll give you your money back

00:24:44.040 or we'll give you more value

00:24:46.020 in the future.

00:24:47.080 A lot of people

00:24:47.780 are going to take

00:24:48.360 the future option,

00:24:49.840 but they're not doing that.

00:24:51.080 And this is why airlines

00:24:52.280 continue to get crapped on

00:24:54.100 because they invite it

00:24:55.300 by crapping on their customers.

00:24:57.340 So good on WestJet again.

00:24:59.120 I mean,

00:24:59.320 I generally speaking

00:25:00.480 have flown a lot with Air Canada

00:25:01.760 and I think they do a lot well.

00:25:02.960 I don't join the Air Canada's

00:25:05.740 evil bandwagon

00:25:06.560 like a lot of people

00:25:07.520 like to ride on,

00:25:08.840 but they are looking

00:25:10.140 pretty bad in this

00:25:10.920 now that WestJet has given in.

00:25:12.940 We will be right back

00:25:13.880 in a moment

00:25:14.240 and talk about the thing

00:25:15.020 that's making everything

00:25:15.780 more expensive for everyone,

00:25:17.620 the carbon tax.

00:25:18.460 That's up next

00:25:19.020 on The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:25:22.720 You're tuned in

00:25:23.880 to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:25:25.380 Welcome back

00:25:32.260 to The Andrew Lawton Show

00:25:33.680 here on True North.

00:25:34.740 Let's talk about

00:25:35.520 one of my biggest pet peeves

00:25:36.880 and I suspect one

00:25:37.600 that I share

00:25:38.180 with a great many of you

00:25:39.200 tuning in to this show.

00:25:40.940 The federal government's

00:25:42.640 carbon tax

00:25:43.360 or as it likes to call it,

00:25:44.420 I believe,

00:25:44.820 the Greenhouse Gas Pollution

00:25:46.400 Pricing Act,

00:25:47.320 which is basically

00:25:48.440 the tax on everything.

00:25:50.400 The tax on your fuel,

00:25:51.860 on your gas heating at home,

00:25:53.180 the tax on anything you buy

00:25:55.080 that's been produced

00:25:55.860 in Canada,

00:25:56.560 on anything that's been

00:25:57.300 shipped to you.

00:25:57.940 It is literally the tax

00:25:59.280 on pretty much every stage

00:26:01.540 of the supply chain

00:26:03.020 and it's supposedly

00:26:04.660 going to help save the world

00:26:06.300 from the evil scourge

00:26:07.500 that is a greenhouse gas

00:26:08.860 but at the same time,

00:26:10.800 this is also not something

00:26:12.140 that I am as optimistic in

00:26:14.260 and I know a lot of you

00:26:15.340 aren't either.

00:26:16.480 Forgetting about

00:26:17.060 the environmental side

00:26:18.060 of the discussion here,

00:26:19.240 let's focus on

00:26:20.360 the economic aspect.

00:26:22.100 A new report

00:26:22.600 from the Fraser Institute

00:26:23.480 says that

00:26:24.140 this carbon tax

00:26:25.520 that we have in Canada

00:26:26.600 and in fact,

00:26:27.140 most of the carbon taxes

00:26:28.160 put in by very similar

00:26:29.740 wealthy nations

00:26:30.680 around the world

00:26:31.360 don't actually economically

00:26:33.240 meet the criteria necessary

00:26:35.120 to say they are

00:26:36.440 efficient and effective.

00:26:38.220 The report is

00:26:39.160 Carbon Pricing

00:26:40.000 in High Income

00:26:40.820 OECD Countries.

00:26:41.920 The author is

00:26:43.000 Elmira Ali Akbari

00:26:44.300 who's the Associate Director

00:26:45.720 of Natural Resource Studies

00:26:47.660 at the Fraser Institute

00:26:48.640 and the author of this report.

00:26:50.640 Dr. Ali Akbari,

00:26:51.680 thank you very much

00:26:52.440 for coming on.

00:26:53.160 Good to speak with you.

00:26:54.140 Thanks, Andrew,

00:26:54.980 for having me.

00:26:56.720 So let's start off

00:26:57.740 with what it was

00:26:58.500 you really set out to find

00:26:59.860 when you decided

00:27:00.820 to bring together

00:27:01.600 these countries

00:27:02.200 around the world.

00:27:02.960 What were you looking for?

00:27:04.600 So it's widely

00:27:06.520 acknowledged that

00:27:07.700 carbon pricing

00:27:08.480 is the most efficient

00:27:09.600 way to reduce

00:27:10.700 greenhouse gas emissions

00:27:12.060 and address

00:27:13.580 the issue

00:27:14.060 of climate change.

00:27:15.260 However,

00:27:16.180 some key conditions

00:27:17.600 must be met

00:27:18.460 for carbon pricing

00:27:19.760 to be efficient

00:27:20.640 or in other words

00:27:21.720 to be the least costly

00:27:23.860 approach

00:27:24.400 for reducing emissions.

00:27:26.480 The first condition

00:27:27.460 is something we call

00:27:28.460 revenue neutrality

00:27:29.520 and that means

00:27:30.320 that all the revenues

00:27:31.600 from carbon pricing

00:27:32.860 should be used

00:27:33.880 to reduce

00:27:34.560 other costly taxes

00:27:36.140 in the system

00:27:37.540 such as reducing

00:27:38.440 personal or business

00:27:39.900 income tax rates.

00:27:41.580 The second condition

00:27:42.740 which is also related

00:27:43.900 to the first one

00:27:44.960 is that governments

00:27:46.340 should avoid

00:27:47.600 subsidizing substitutes

00:27:49.800 for carbon-emitting

00:27:50.880 activities

00:27:51.640 such as subsidizing

00:27:53.500 wind and solar

00:27:55.000 energy sources

00:27:56.100 because subsidizing

00:27:57.680 these substitutes

00:27:59.000 will increase

00:27:59.800 the cost of reducing

00:28:01.240 emissions

00:28:01.860 and will defeat

00:28:03.300 the whole purpose

00:28:04.400 of carbon pricing

00:28:05.500 which is allowing

00:28:06.860 the market

00:28:07.640 and prices

00:28:08.600 to find

00:28:10.420 the right substitutes.

00:28:12.420 And the third condition

00:28:13.520 is that the introduction

00:28:15.220 of carbon pricing

00:28:16.540 should trigger

00:28:18.160 the repeal

00:28:20.180 of the existing

00:28:21.280 and corresponding

00:28:22.300 emissions-related

00:28:23.740 regulations.

00:28:24.580 We shouldn't be adding

00:28:25.480 carbon pricing

00:28:26.360 on top of existing

00:28:28.100 regulations.

00:28:29.040 So in our recent study

00:28:30.820 we examined

00:28:31.660 existing carbon pricing

00:28:33.600 policies

00:28:34.280 in 31 high-income

00:28:35.980 OECD countries

00:28:37.100 to determine

00:28:38.500 whether

00:28:39.160 these existing

00:28:41.420 systems

00:28:42.240 meet the key conditions

00:28:44.140 of a well-designed

00:28:45.840 carbon pricing

00:28:46.620 policies

00:28:47.140 and we found

00:28:47.760 that no country

00:28:49.700 has implemented

00:28:51.000 a well-designed

00:28:51.880 carbon pricing policy.

00:28:53.560 More specifically

00:28:54.300 no country

00:28:55.920 is using

00:28:56.400 all the revenues

00:28:57.400 from carbon pricing

00:28:59.400 to reduce

00:29:00.140 other taxes

00:29:01.160 which help

00:29:02.760 with improving

00:29:04.320 economic growth.

00:29:05.480 our study

00:29:06.860 found that

00:29:07.860 74%

00:29:09.980 of the

00:29:11.280 carbon tax

00:29:12.380 revenues

00:29:13.520 collected

00:29:14.220 in 14 countries

00:29:16.700 on average

00:29:17.860 are simply

00:29:19.000 used as

00:29:19.860 general revenues

00:29:21.120 for the government.

00:29:22.800 Only 14%

00:29:24.420 of the

00:29:25.260 carbon tax revenues

00:29:26.820 again on average

00:29:27.800 were returned

00:29:29.200 to taxpayers.

00:29:30.880 And this suggests

00:29:31.940 that

00:29:32.480 existing carbon

00:29:33.960 carbon taxes

00:29:34.580 are mainly

00:29:35.540 used as a

00:29:36.680 tool for governments

00:29:38.220 to raise revenue

00:29:39.340 rather than

00:29:40.420 a mechanism

00:29:41.500 to reduce emissions

00:29:43.000 in the most

00:29:45.120 affordable

00:29:46.200 way possible.

00:29:48.320 In addition,

00:29:48.960 we found that

00:29:49.540 no country

00:29:50.380 that introduced

00:29:51.520 carbon pricing

00:29:52.760 has eliminated

00:29:53.960 the existing

00:29:55.280 and corresponding

00:29:56.240 GHG-related regulations.

00:29:59.280 In fact,

00:30:00.020 most countries

00:30:00.920 have done

00:30:01.500 the opposite

00:30:02.340 and

00:30:03.100 they have

00:30:03.680 introduced

00:30:04.320 even new

00:30:05.000 regulations

00:30:05.780 following the

00:30:06.500 introduction

00:30:07.120 of

00:30:07.680 carbon pricing.

00:30:09.920 Emission caps,

00:30:11.660 clean fuel

00:30:12.240 standards,

00:30:13.460 renewable power

00:30:14.540 mandates.

00:30:15.500 These are just

00:30:15.980 some examples

00:30:16.820 of these regulations

00:30:18.000 that undermine

00:30:19.880 the cost-effectiveness

00:30:21.240 of carbon pricing

00:30:23.100 policies.

00:30:24.280 I want to talk

00:30:25.260 about some

00:30:25.840 of the specifics

00:30:26.880 you mentioned

00:30:27.380 a moment ago

00:30:27.980 about how the money

00:30:28.700 is spent.

00:30:29.160 But before then,

00:30:30.480 just getting to

00:30:31.180 really the fundamental

00:30:32.140 thesis of this report,

00:30:34.080 am I correct that

00:30:34.820 you're not saying

00:30:35.620 a carbon tax itself

00:30:37.140 is a bad thing

00:30:38.020 but just there's

00:30:38.560 a right way

00:30:39.080 and a wrong way

00:30:39.660 to do it?

00:30:40.180 Or is it that

00:30:41.160 so many of these

00:30:42.020 mechanisms you think

00:30:43.060 would be required

00:30:44.060 for it to be

00:30:44.620 better designed

00:30:45.320 are just not

00:30:46.440 happening in

00:30:47.120 carbon tax policies

00:30:48.140 that we see

00:30:48.640 around the world?

00:30:49.500 That's a really

00:30:50.200 great point.

00:30:51.400 So, you know,

00:30:52.380 most economists

00:30:53.160 including me

00:30:54.160 believe that

00:30:54.740 carbon pricing

00:30:55.580 is the most

00:30:56.240 efficient way

00:30:57.000 to reduce

00:30:57.540 greenhouse gas

00:30:58.340 emissions

00:30:58.740 but we believe

00:31:00.660 that the way

00:31:01.380 we are designing

00:31:02.440 and implementing

00:31:03.880 those policies

00:31:05.000 are really important.

00:31:06.760 While tackling

00:31:07.780 climate change

00:31:08.820 is a priority

00:31:09.760 we should really

00:31:10.560 pay attention

00:31:11.200 to the way

00:31:11.760 that we are

00:31:12.400 designing

00:31:13.500 and implementing

00:31:14.400 these policies.

00:31:15.660 If we have

00:31:16.600 a well-designed

00:31:17.620 carbon pricing

00:31:18.560 policy

00:31:19.140 we can reduce

00:31:20.760 greenhouse gas

00:31:22.040 emissions

00:31:22.480 in an efficient

00:31:24.340 and productive

00:31:25.080 way

00:31:25.560 and this is

00:31:26.200 basically

00:31:26.620 what our

00:31:27.220 report is

00:31:27.780 about.

00:31:29.380 So let's

00:31:30.280 talk about

00:31:30.800 how it's

00:31:31.440 spent

00:31:31.760 because I know

00:31:32.500 this was a

00:31:33.200 big part

00:31:33.960 of the discussion

00:31:34.580 in Canada

00:31:35.180 about whether

00:31:35.820 the money

00:31:36.620 that the

00:31:37.000 government

00:31:37.260 brings in

00:31:37.820 through the

00:31:38.220 carbon tax

00:31:38.920 had to be

00:31:39.400 used for

00:31:40.400 specific

00:31:41.300 emission reduction

00:31:42.580 programs

00:31:43.300 or whether it

00:31:43.880 could just go

00:31:44.500 into general

00:31:45.520 revenue.

00:31:46.360 Why does that

00:31:46.880 matter?

00:31:47.420 I mean in the

00:31:48.220 sense of the

00:31:48.780 effect a carbon

00:31:49.500 tax would have

00:31:50.240 on consumers

00:31:50.960 on industry

00:31:51.920 it's the

00:31:52.900 same.

00:31:53.400 How does it

00:31:53.880 matter from

00:31:54.500 an efficiency

00:31:55.260 standpoint how

00:31:56.120 the government

00:31:56.540 spends the

00:31:57.100 money?

00:31:58.800 So the

00:32:00.500 revenue

00:32:01.200 neutrality

00:32:01.920 condition

00:32:02.560 explicitly says

00:32:04.040 that the

00:32:04.960 collected

00:32:05.520 revenue from

00:32:06.300 carbon tax

00:32:07.380 should be

00:32:08.380 used to

00:32:09.040 reduce other

00:32:09.980 costly taxes

00:32:11.060 in the system

00:32:11.860 and the

00:32:13.160 reason is that

00:32:13.800 and this is

00:32:14.300 really important

00:32:14.900 the reason is

00:32:15.780 that this is

00:32:17.440 a bit technical

00:32:17.960 but I try to

00:32:18.860 put it simple

00:32:19.420 when we

00:32:19.900 introduce a

00:32:20.560 carbon tax

00:32:21.240 or any

00:32:21.580 other form

00:32:22.100 of tax

00:32:22.660 we create

00:32:23.900 an economic

00:32:24.700 inefficiency

00:32:25.540 which results

00:32:26.540 in something

00:32:27.280 economists

00:32:28.080 call deadweight

00:32:29.180 loss.

00:32:29.800 Deadweight loss

00:32:30.480 is a cost

00:32:31.780 to society

00:32:32.800 resulting from

00:32:34.440 an inefficient

00:32:35.720 allocation of

00:32:37.100 resources

00:32:37.640 within a market.

00:32:38.900 So the idea

00:32:39.480 is that when

00:32:40.020 we are

00:32:40.340 basically when

00:32:41.020 we are having

00:32:41.720 a carbon tax

00:32:42.580 that creates

00:32:43.320 some efficiency

00:32:44.540 costs.

00:32:45.320 So to mitigate

00:32:46.020 that efficiency

00:32:46.900 cost we should

00:32:47.740 be using

00:32:48.360 revenues from

00:32:49.540 carbon tax

00:32:50.260 to reduce

00:32:50.860 other costly

00:32:51.760 taxes.

00:32:53.260 And you know

00:32:54.260 for example

00:32:55.840 in Canada

00:32:56.360 the federal

00:32:56.820 government

00:32:57.240 is now

00:32:58.000 using

00:32:58.600 its carbon

00:33:00.020 tax revenues

00:33:01.020 to kind of

00:33:01.960 it's using

00:33:02.800 90% of its

00:33:03.700 carbon tax revenues

00:33:04.620 to recycle

00:33:05.840 it back to

00:33:06.520 households

00:33:07.200 through issuing

00:33:08.320 lump sum

00:33:10.120 rebates

00:33:10.840 while issuing

00:33:12.100 lump sum

00:33:12.620 rebates

00:33:13.380 you know

00:33:14.160 generates

00:33:14.800 some economic

00:33:16.300 some economic

00:33:16.860 efficiency benefits

00:33:18.300 but the benefits

00:33:20.240 would be larger

00:33:21.300 you know

00:33:21.900 if we

00:33:22.700 reduce

00:33:23.740 other taxes.

00:33:25.440 Many papers

00:33:25.960 have shown

00:33:26.580 that when

00:33:27.660 we use

00:33:28.980 carbon tax revenues

00:33:30.380 and recycle

00:33:31.240 them back

00:33:31.840 to the economy

00:33:32.600 in a form

00:33:33.160 of tax cuts

00:33:34.240 that would

00:33:35.540 result in

00:33:36.600 greater economic

00:33:38.400 efficiency

00:33:39.120 compared to a case

00:33:40.100 where we

00:33:41.380 just

00:33:41.740 issue

00:33:42.500 lump sum

00:33:43.100 rebates

00:33:43.700 so

00:33:44.440 and the

00:33:45.300 intuition

00:33:45.680 is also

00:33:46.180 simple

00:33:46.540 because

00:33:46.940 remember

00:33:47.860 those taxes

00:33:48.820 such as

00:33:49.500 income taxes

00:33:50.460 they discourage

00:33:51.740 work

00:33:52.340 they discourage

00:33:53.240 investment

00:33:53.860 and savings

00:33:54.800 so

00:33:55.040 when we

00:33:55.700 reduce

00:33:56.240 those taxes

00:33:57.140 we can

00:33:57.960 help more

00:33:58.740 with improving

00:33:59.980 economic

00:34:01.320 growth

00:34:02.040 and that's

00:34:02.700 why

00:34:03.080 you know

00:34:03.800 it's really

00:34:04.320 important

00:34:04.800 that all

00:34:05.780 the revenues

00:34:06.380 that we

00:34:06.920 are collecting

00:34:07.420 from carbon

00:34:08.920 pricing

00:34:09.360 should be

00:34:09.980 used to

00:34:10.440 reduce

00:34:10.800 other taxes

00:34:11.620 and this

00:34:12.060 is not

00:34:12.460 something

00:34:13.140 that the

00:34:13.580 federal government

00:34:14.180 is currently

00:34:15.100 doing.

00:34:16.100 One thing

00:34:16.920 I'm curious

00:34:17.420 about

00:34:17.780 and in

00:34:18.200 the list

00:34:18.580 of countries

00:34:19.180 against which

00:34:19.820 you've

00:34:20.100 compared

00:34:20.500 Canada

00:34:21.360 the 14

00:34:22.280 OECD

00:34:23.140 countries

00:34:23.540 that have

00:34:23.860 implemented

00:34:24.260 carbon

00:34:24.660 taxes

00:34:25.120 there's

00:34:25.840 a huge

00:34:26.500 range

00:34:27.040 of what

00:34:27.600 that actual

00:34:28.180 tax rate

00:34:28.860 is

00:34:29.120 I think

00:34:29.560 Japan

00:34:29.960 was the

00:34:30.420 lowest

00:34:30.780 at $3

00:34:31.980 per ton

00:34:33.280 of CO2

00:34:34.060 emissions

00:34:34.460 all the

00:34:34.780 way up

00:34:35.100 to

00:34:35.380 Sweden

00:34:36.140 at

00:34:36.400 I think

00:34:36.680 $127

00:34:38.140 or so

00:34:38.580 and Canada

00:34:39.220 on the

00:34:39.600 lower end

00:34:40.120 at $15

00:34:40.900 and I mean

00:34:41.920 obviously

00:34:42.240 as a Canadian

00:34:43.000 taxpayer

00:34:43.520 I just

00:34:44.200 don't like

00:34:44.600 tax in

00:34:45.060 general

00:34:45.340 so even

00:34:46.280 if it's

00:34:46.580 lower than

00:34:46.940 other

00:34:47.120 countries

00:34:47.500 I would

00:34:47.980 still say

00:34:48.460 that there's

00:34:48.900 a question

00:34:49.480 about whether

00:34:49.980 it's too

00:34:50.380 high

00:34:50.660 but are

00:34:51.500 all of

00:34:51.980 these

00:34:52.180 countries

00:34:52.600 comparable

00:34:53.220 I mean

00:34:53.800 does

00:34:53.980 Canada

00:34:54.360 with its

00:34:54.900 industry

00:34:55.720 that's heavily

00:34:56.280 resource

00:34:56.900 focused

00:34:57.340 have a

00:34:57.920 place

00:34:58.280 and have

00:34:58.560 an ability

00:34:58.960 to compare

00:34:59.540 it with

00:34:59.960 the economies

00:35:01.240 and greenhouse

00:35:01.960 gas

00:35:02.400 emissions

00:35:02.760 plans

00:35:03.600 in Sweden

00:35:04.240 Japan

00:35:04.700 and so

00:35:05.420 on

00:35:05.620 where

00:35:05.820 they don't

00:35:06.460 have that

00:35:06.940 resource sector

00:35:07.820 as strongly

00:35:08.460 as we do

00:35:08.980 so we

00:35:09.820 cannot

00:35:10.200 directly

00:35:10.820 compare

00:35:11.460 those

00:35:11.920 taxes

00:35:12.460 among

00:35:12.800 countries

00:35:13.360 due to

00:35:13.780 some

00:35:14.040 reason

00:35:14.340 because

00:35:14.660 there are

00:35:15.020 differences

00:35:15.580 in those

00:35:16.300 programs

00:35:16.960 for instance

00:35:17.780 in terms

00:35:18.400 of

00:35:18.660 in some

00:35:19.340 countries

00:35:19.760 some

00:35:20.340 sectors

00:35:20.820 get

00:35:21.200 compensation

00:35:21.780 or some

00:35:22.640 sectors

00:35:23.040 get

00:35:23.420 exempted

00:35:24.180 from

00:35:24.460 paying

00:35:24.880 carbon

00:35:25.200 taxes

00:35:25.620 or

00:35:26.240 in

00:35:26.440 some

00:35:26.680 countries

00:35:27.020 we see

00:35:27.440 that

00:35:27.640 the

00:35:27.840 taxes

00:35:28.320 apply

00:35:29.000 to

00:35:29.520 all

00:35:29.980 the

00:35:30.440 emissions

00:35:31.920 basically

00:35:32.680 generated

00:35:33.700 in the

00:35:34.540 country

00:35:34.960 whereas

00:35:35.260 in some

00:35:35.700 other

00:35:35.920 countries

00:35:36.400 it's

00:35:36.660 only

00:35:36.900 a share

00:35:37.620 of

00:35:37.880 emission

00:35:38.240 a portion

00:35:38.860 of

00:35:39.100 emission

00:35:39.440 not

00:35:39.720 the

00:35:39.940 whole

00:35:40.360 basically

00:35:42.800 emissions

00:35:43.320 generated

00:35:43.880 so

00:35:44.540 because

00:35:45.240 of

00:35:45.520 those

00:35:45.780 differences

00:35:46.500 within

00:35:47.100 countries

00:35:47.780 we

00:35:48.020 cannot

00:35:48.360 really

00:35:48.940 directly

00:35:49.780 compare

00:35:50.380 those

00:35:51.180 carbon

00:35:51.580 taxes

00:35:52.120 between

00:35:52.800 countries

00:35:53.940 so

00:35:55.580 I guess

00:35:56.040 the big

00:35:56.360 question

00:35:56.720 is

00:35:57.040 are we

00:35:58.480 talking

00:35:58.900 about

00:35:59.320 tweaks

00:35:59.880 that could 0.68

00:36:00.320 be made

00:36:00.980 to

00:36:01.400 Canada's

00:36:02.200 carbon

00:36:02.580 tax

00:36:02.960 in order

00:36:03.300 to bring

00:36:03.620 it

00:36:03.720 in alignment

00:36:04.120 with what

00:36:04.480 you're

00:36:04.620 saying

00:36:04.940 or

00:36:05.140 would it

00:36:05.620 really

00:36:05.820 have to

00:36:06.200 go back

00:36:06.540 to the

00:36:06.780 drawing

00:36:07.100 board

00:36:07.360 and start

00:36:07.900 from

00:36:08.120 scratch

00:36:08.540 to qualify

00:36:09.180 as being

00:36:09.840 an

00:36:10.320 effective

00:36:10.700 and

00:36:10.880 efficient

00:36:11.240 plan

00:36:12.020 yeah

00:36:12.660 I think

00:36:13.260 we can

00:36:13.880 make

00:36:14.160 some

00:36:14.540 tweaks

00:36:15.240 or

00:36:15.480 reforms

00:36:16.020 you know

00:36:16.460 to

00:36:16.800 make

00:36:17.320 it

00:36:17.620 basically

00:36:18.120 a

00:36:18.380 well

00:36:18.600 designed

00:36:18.940 carbon

00:36:19.280 pricing

00:36:19.680 policy

00:36:20.240 another

00:36:21.060 main

00:36:21.580 issue

00:36:21.860 in

00:36:22.040 Canada

00:36:22.340 is

00:36:22.600 that

00:36:22.900 the

00:36:24.100 federal

00:36:24.380 carbon

00:36:24.820 tax

00:36:25.420 is

00:36:25.740 accompanied

00:36:26.340 by so

00:36:27.260 many

00:36:27.740 other

00:36:28.180 regulatory

00:36:29.320 measures

00:36:30.020 for example

00:36:31.200 we have

00:36:31.920 a regulate

00:36:32.580 and all

00:36:33.400 those

00:36:33.620 regulations

00:36:34.220 have the

00:36:34.820 same

00:36:35.200 target

00:36:35.760 or

00:36:36.220 objective

00:36:36.700 and that's

00:36:37.500 actually

00:36:37.960 the issue

00:36:38.460 for example

00:36:39.260 we have

00:36:39.640 a regulation

00:36:40.320 to phase

00:36:41.060 out

00:36:41.460 coal

00:36:42.020 fire

00:36:42.360 power

00:36:42.700 plants

00:36:43.120 by 2030

00:36:44.000 we have

00:36:44.700 a regulation

00:36:45.480 on methane

00:36:47.120 emissions

00:36:47.760 in the oil

00:36:48.420 and gas

00:36:48.860 sector

00:36:49.280 we have

00:36:50.580 an ethanol

00:36:51.360 regulation

00:36:52.300 to reduce

00:36:53.540 greenhouse gas

00:36:54.620 emissions

00:36:55.060 in the

00:36:55.480 transportation

00:36:56.040 sector

00:36:56.760 the federal

00:36:57.620 government

00:36:58.080 has also

00:36:58.940 you know

00:36:59.700 proposed

00:37:00.200 this sweeping

00:37:00.860 regulation

00:37:01.580 called

00:37:02.080 clean fuel

00:37:03.380 standard

00:37:03.880 to decarbonize

00:37:05.980 fuel use

00:37:06.980 in the country

00:37:08.040 so all

00:37:09.240 all these

00:37:09.620 regulations

00:37:10.320 that have

00:37:11.240 the same

00:37:11.880 objective

00:37:12.420 they have

00:37:12.900 the same

00:37:13.340 target

00:37:13.780 when we

00:37:14.280 accompany

00:37:15.120 those

00:37:15.620 regulations

00:37:16.720 with the

00:37:17.600 federal

00:37:17.880 carbon tax

00:37:19.040 all those

00:37:19.820 regulations

00:37:20.280 are going

00:37:20.800 to increase

00:37:21.260 the cost

00:37:21.900 of reducing

00:37:23.260 emissions

00:37:24.040 without generating

00:37:27.140 any significant

00:37:29.780 marginal

00:37:30.440 benefit

00:37:31.080 so that's

00:37:32.920 one of the

00:37:33.520 main issues

00:37:34.280 with

00:37:34.660 federal

00:37:35.380 government's

00:37:36.080 carbon tax

00:37:36.680 the other

00:37:37.280 issue

00:37:37.660 is

00:37:38.060 as I

00:37:38.760 discussed

00:37:39.560 is that

00:37:40.980 the way

00:37:41.620 the federal

00:37:42.500 government

00:37:42.940 is recycling

00:37:44.180 its carbon

00:37:44.920 tax revenues

00:37:46.060 is not ideal

00:37:47.420 this is not

00:37:48.200 what economists

00:37:49.020 have in mind

00:37:50.040 the federal

00:37:50.880 government

00:37:51.240 should be using

00:37:52.120 carbon tax

00:37:53.080 revenues

00:37:53.560 to reduce

00:37:54.600 other costly

00:37:55.480 taxes

00:37:55.960 such as

00:37:57.280 personal

00:37:57.680 or business

00:37:58.260 income tax

00:37:59.440 rates

00:37:59.780 again

00:38:00.140 this is not

00:38:00.900 happening

00:38:01.340 in Canada

00:38:02.000 and we have

00:38:02.840 also seen

00:38:03.460 that the

00:38:03.820 federal government

00:38:04.440 is now

00:38:05.520 using

00:38:07.280 10%

00:38:08.920 of its

00:38:09.440 carbon tax

00:38:10.280 revenues

00:38:11.580 to

00:38:12.960 basically

00:38:14.720 pursue

00:38:15.180 some

00:38:15.520 environmental

00:38:16.140 goals

00:38:16.720 because

00:38:17.160 that 10% 0.79

00:38:19.140 goes to

00:38:20.480 small and

00:38:21.140 medium sized

00:38:22.100 companies

00:38:23.180 and some

00:38:23.940 other

00:38:24.460 organizations

00:38:25.900 such as

00:38:26.580 schools

00:38:27.140 and

00:38:27.580 hospitals

00:38:28.400 for their

00:38:29.800 energy

00:38:30.840 efficiency

00:38:31.460 programs

00:38:32.180 meaning

00:38:32.500 that

00:38:32.920 the

00:38:33.540 government

00:38:33.920 is

00:38:34.200 using

00:38:34.980 that

00:38:35.460 revenue

00:38:35.840 to pursue

00:38:36.500 some

00:38:36.940 environmental

00:38:38.020 goals

00:38:39.220 and

00:38:39.560 this is

00:38:40.540 not

00:38:40.740 something

00:38:41.200 that

00:38:41.680 we should

00:38:42.500 be doing

00:38:43.020 again

00:38:43.420 we should

00:38:45.280 be

00:38:45.760 having

00:38:46.520 a well

00:38:47.000 designed

00:38:47.600 carbon

00:38:48.580 pricing

00:38:49.020 policy

00:38:49.480 so that

00:38:49.920 we can

00:38:50.380 deliver

00:38:52.180 emission

00:38:52.740 reductions

00:38:53.360 in an

00:38:54.640 efficient

00:38:54.960 way

00:38:55.360 the

00:38:56.720 report

00:38:57.240 from the

00:38:57.540 Fraser

00:38:57.780 Institute

00:38:58.160 carbon

00:38:58.540 pricing

00:38:59.000 in

00:38:59.300 high

00:38:59.600 income

00:38:59.980 OECD

00:39:00.680 countries

00:39:01.180 and you

00:39:01.860 can check

00:39:02.180 that out

00:39:02.700 online

00:39:03.640 we'll have

00:39:04.060 a link

00:39:04.460 in the

00:39:04.700 description

00:39:05.020 box

00:39:05.440 the author

00:39:06.380 of the

00:39:06.680 report

00:39:06.980 Dr.

00:39:07.420 Elmira

00:39:07.780 Aliakbari 0.75

00:39:08.480 Associate

00:39:08.920 Director

00:39:09.380 of Natural

00:39:10.040 Resources

00:39:10.540 for the

00:39:11.000 Fraser

00:39:11.260 Institute

00:39:11.640 joins me

00:39:12.200 on the

00:39:12.880 line

00:39:13.100 now

00:39:13.300 Dr.

00:39:13.660 Aliakbari 0.75

00:39:14.200 thank you

00:39:14.620 very much

00:39:15.040 for coming

00:39:15.480 on today

00:39:15.880 great to

00:39:16.260 speak

00:39:16.500 with you

00:39:16.980 thanks

00:39:18.340 for having

00:39:18.960 me

00:39:19.300 it's funny

00:39:20.400 I know

00:39:20.980 I'm going

00:39:21.520 to get

00:39:21.680 a lot

00:39:21.980 of nasty

00:39:22.760 messages

00:39:23.320 from a lot

00:39:23.820 of people

00:39:24.140 who are

00:39:24.580 like me

00:39:25.220 in the

00:39:25.480 I don't

00:39:25.840 want any

00:39:26.320 carbon tax

00:39:27.120 camp

00:39:27.800 and I

00:39:28.100 think that's

00:39:28.560 an entirely

00:39:29.100 defensible

00:39:29.760 and justifiable

00:39:30.760 position

00:39:31.300 but I do

00:39:32.420 think it's

00:39:32.780 interesting

00:39:33.260 that there

00:39:34.300 are a lot

00:39:34.920 of people

00:39:35.440 in Canada

00:39:36.260 and I'd

00:39:36.600 say there

00:39:36.820 are probably

00:39:37.060 a lot

00:39:37.300 of people

00:39:37.600 in the

00:39:37.960 Liberal

00:39:38.300 Party

00:39:38.640 that are

00:39:39.020 true believers

00:39:40.260 in the sense

00:39:40.780 that yes

00:39:41.120 they think

00:39:41.500 environmental

00:39:41.920 issues

00:39:42.780 are these

00:39:43.460 crippling 1.00

00:39:43.820 threats

00:39:44.080 to humanity

00:39:44.660 but they're

00:39:45.600 also people

00:39:46.480 that want

00:39:47.360 good effective

00:39:48.720 policy

00:39:49.380 and that's

00:39:50.040 the thing

00:39:50.320 and I'm

00:39:50.580 kind of at

00:39:50.920 this point

00:39:51.260 where if

00:39:51.660 there's going

00:39:52.240 to be a

00:39:52.760 carbon tax

00:39:53.380 if we're

00:39:53.640 going to

00:39:53.780 go down

00:39:54.060 this road

00:39:54.480 let's at

00:39:55.500 least make

00:39:56.040 it revenue

00:39:56.480 neutral

00:39:56.840 and let's

00:39:57.600 at least

00:39:57.940 not just

00:39:58.600 treat it

00:39:59.100 as a

00:39:59.540 general tax

00:40:00.460 and this

00:40:00.780 is one

00:40:01.080 of the

00:40:01.260 big things

00:40:01.700 that was

00:40:01.980 coming up

00:40:02.480 and I

00:40:03.000 was in

00:40:03.260 the whole

00:40:03.660 week of

00:40:04.400 trial for

00:40:05.520 the Ontario

00:40:06.240 carbon tax

00:40:06.940 court case

00:40:07.400 that would

00:40:07.680 have been

00:40:07.880 what April

00:40:08.820 2019

00:40:09.420 I think

00:40:09.900 that was

00:40:10.260 at Osgood

00:40:10.720 Hall

00:40:10.960 and it was

00:40:12.360 amazing how

00:40:13.260 the government

00:40:13.700 was trying to

00:40:14.280 pretend this

00:40:14.720 isn't a tax

00:40:15.440 and that was

00:40:16.120 one of their

00:40:16.460 lead arguments

00:40:17.120 and I think

00:40:17.920 unfortunately

00:40:18.340 the court

00:40:18.720 actually agreed

00:40:19.520 with them

00:40:19.880 that it's

00:40:20.240 a regulatory

00:40:20.960 charge

00:40:21.660 not a tax

00:40:22.660 but when

00:40:23.700 Canadians

00:40:24.240 are paying

00:40:25.120 it

00:40:25.460 it doesn't

00:40:26.780 matter what

00:40:27.320 you call it

00:40:27.920 it's money

00:40:28.480 out of a

00:40:29.040 Canadian's

00:40:29.680 pocket

00:40:30.040 and when

00:40:31.200 this is just

00:40:31.760 going into

00:40:32.480 basically

00:40:33.100 infrastructure

00:40:33.840 green

00:40:34.520 slush funds

00:40:35.760 that aren't

00:40:36.220 actually being

00:40:37.140 put towards

00:40:37.840 the stated

00:40:38.840 purpose of it

00:40:39.620 that aren't

00:40:39.920 having an effect

00:40:40.620 it's something

00:40:41.720 that we need

00:40:42.200 to push back

00:40:42.720 again

00:40:42.980 so to bring

00:40:43.740 it around

00:40:44.060 to that

00:40:44.280 interview

00:40:44.560 even if

00:40:45.540 you're like

00:40:46.060 me and

00:40:46.320 you're saying

00:40:46.640 I'm team

00:40:47.220 anti-carbon

00:40:47.780 tax

00:40:48.080 that's fine

00:40:48.660 but I think

00:40:49.560 this report

00:40:50.040 is valuable

00:40:50.540 because it's

00:40:51.060 saying if

00:40:51.880 you are going

00:40:52.380 to go down

00:40:52.720 this road

00:40:53.160 there's a

00:40:53.520 right way

00:40:53.880 and a

00:40:54.080 wrong way

00:40:54.440 to do

00:40:54.800 it

00:40:54.980 and all

00:40:55.740 of these

00:40:56.080 governments

00:40:56.480 that have

00:40:56.940 consumed

00:40:57.340 the Kool-Aid

00:40:57.900 are very

00:40:58.440 much going

00:40:58.940 down the

00:40:59.620 wrong way

00:41:00.640 on that

00:41:01.700 so do

00:41:02.680 check out

00:41:03.060 the report

00:41:03.460 and let me

00:41:03.960 know what

00:41:04.200 you think

00:41:04.480 with that

00:41:05.360 being said

00:41:05.780 we have

00:41:06.080 to wrap

00:41:06.380 things up

00:41:06.780 for today

00:41:07.340 my thanks

00:41:07.780 to all

00:41:08.060 of you

00:41:08.300 for tuning

00:41:08.920 in and

00:41:09.220 again to

00:41:09.640 Dr.

00:41:10.440 Elmira

00:41:10.860 Aliakbari 0.75

00:41:11.580 from the

00:41:12.040 Fraser Institute

00:41:12.680 we'll talk

00:41:13.360 to you next

00:41:13.720 week with

00:41:14.160 more of

00:41:14.720 Canada's

00:41:15.200 most irreverent

00:41:16.040 talk show

00:41:16.460 thank you

00:41:17.140 God bless

00:41:17.620 and good

00:41:17.980 day

00:41:18.200 if you

00:41:19.540 enjoy the

00:41:19.980 show and

00:41:20.300 want to

00:41:20.540 hear more

00:41:20.960 of it

00:41:21.240 we need

00:41:22.040 your support

00:41:22.860 head on

00:41:23.480 over to

00:41:24.000 andrewlaughtonshow.com

00:41:25.740 and click

00:41:26.440 donate to

00:41:27.120 support the

00:41:27.600 work that

00:41:27.920 we're doing

00:41:28.320 and stand

00:41:28.980 up for

00:41:29.300 independent

00:41:29.760 media

00:41:30.180 thanks for

00:41:30.740 listening to

00:41:31.220 the Andrew

00:41:31.620 Lawton show

00:41:32.240 support the

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00:41:34.080 true north

00:41:34.520 at www.tnc.news

Juno News - October 22, 2020

Everything's a Confidence Motion

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