Juno News - September 30, 2018


EXCLUSIVE： Andrew Lawton in conversation with Mark Steyn


Episode Stats


Length

32 minutes

Words per minute

153.15242

Word count

5,038

Sentence count

240

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Toxicity

9

sentences flagged

Hate speech

19

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Andrew Yang is joined by best-selling author and columnist Mark Stein to discuss immigration in Canada and why it's not as simple as it used to be. They also talk about what it means to be a francophone in Canada.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Here with another in-depth True North initiative feature, I'm joined by best-selling author and columnist and host and recording artist and human rights activist Mark Stein. Mark, good to be with you.
00:00:10.820 Hey, good to be with you, Andrew.
00:00:12.360 Now, I just realized I've interviewed you many times, never in the same place. There was one time we were close. We were in the same city, but we ended up doing it remotely.
00:00:20.920 So I've had to truck through the foothills of New England to get here, but we've done it and we're in the same room.
00:00:26.020 Now we're knee-to-knee, so you can ask me about the most shameful and embarrassing moments of my life and I'll just open up to you and spill the beans.
00:00:35.620 Okay, embarrassing moments. Who have you been interviewed by before me that might eclipse this one? We'll see.
00:00:44.700 Let's talk about immigration for a moment because, first off, I had to clear it to get here to interview you,
00:00:51.080 but you've actually been talking about this to an American audience for quite a while and immigration was,
00:00:56.020 probably one of the key issues in the last election.
00:00:59.080 And in Canada, it only seems to be just now that people are actually talking about it.
00:01:03.760 And I mean, Stephen Harper continued to increase immigration numbers, but even then it was never as central to the national discussion as it is in Canada now.
00:01:11.860 No, I think you're right that it was the issue with Donald Trump.
00:01:16.300 And that's true today if you go to his rallies, but it was certainly true during the campaign.
00:01:21.720 In fact, I think I was there the very first night he turned it into a chant when he talked about building the wall and then he said,
00:01:30.880 and who's going to pay for it? And everybody in the hall yelled back, Mexico.
00:01:35.520 It was central because I think people had concluded that mass immigration did nothing for the people who were already here in the country.
00:01:49.300 And that's actually the way you're meant to look at it.
00:01:52.420 If you notice the way people talk, people before Trump, people talked about immigration in terms of the immigrants' point of view.
00:02:01.540 We need to bring them out of the shadows and that kind of thing.
00:02:04.600 It's not really an American issue, I would say.
00:02:07.820 My view is that no developed nation needs mass immigration for the basic reason that 30 percent of all jobs are expected to vanish in the next 15 years or so.
00:02:24.980 So the argument they made after the Second World War is, oh, we need people to come here to be our nurses and to be our bus drivers and to be whatever it is.
00:02:36.540 That argument no longer applies in an age of automation.
00:02:42.080 And so I think the economic rationale for immigration has vanished.
00:02:48.440 And what that leaves in countries like Canada is basically the virtue signaling argument for immigration,
00:02:56.480 which is that we admit all these people from around the world because it makes us feel good about ourselves.
00:03:03.460 And I don't think that's going to fly much longer either.
00:03:05.880 No, and in Canada, when the big discussion was admitting Syrian refugees, there was the big discussion about what were considerably small numbers.
00:03:13.200 Do we go with 25,000 or 50,000?
00:03:15.740 And when Justin Trudeau said, we're going to do 50,000, everyone said, oh, that's too much too quickly.
00:03:21.260 And you'd think that would be a moment of reckoning.
00:03:23.700 But instead, it becomes an open the floodgate scenario.
00:03:26.360 And over the last two years, year and a half, we've had tens of thousands of people flooding across the border illegally,
00:03:32.440 a government that isn't prepared or willing to deal with it.
00:03:35.620 And it's taken that for Canadians to start to have any discussion whatsoever about immigration that isn't in that virtue signaling realm.
00:03:43.120 No, and I think what's interesting about that, I mean, to me, one of the interesting things about Canada in general is that unless francophones object to it,
00:03:58.460 whatever your objection is goes nowhere.
00:04:01.060 And what is interesting to me is that in some respects, that encounter between a Pirlene Quebeca, not far from where we're sitting right now, actually,
00:04:12.160 at Saint-Anne de Sabrevoix, and Justin Trudeau, where he, because she objected to having Trudeau's virtue signaling,
00:04:24.020 the cost of his virtue signaling, dumped on her province, he told her she had no place in Canada.
00:04:34.400 In other words, it's like a state ideology.
00:04:37.080 If you object to pointless mass immigration as a kind of virtue signaling, there is no place for you in Canada.
00:04:47.560 And I thought that was an astonishing thing for the leader of a democratic society to say to a citizen, just not appropriate, not appropriate at all.
00:04:58.780 Yes, and we actually had a few weeks ago the immigration minister in Canada saying that Doug Ford, the premier of Ontario,
00:05:05.160 and one of his ministers were racist because they were raising issues about the influx of asylum seekers.
00:05:10.420 And you used to associate that rhetoric with these people in the dark corners of the internet or these campus social justice warriors.
00:05:18.060 We're talking about now ministers of the crown, the prime minister of Canada.
00:05:21.380 And this rhetoric is very dangerous in a way because they are trying to say that criticism of this thing or criticism of your government is inherently equivalent to racism.
00:05:31.800 Yeah, and it's because the unique thing about Canada, of course, is that multiculturalism is an official policy, which, and it has been since Justin's father's day, and it shouldn't have been. 0.97
00:05:47.220 But I think the appropriate response, I mean, I'm not in favor of state ideologies, and I don't care whether that's communism or Nazism or these fluffy bunny things like multiculturalism.
00:05:58.600 I think there's a real question.
00:06:02.360 I think it offends against the maxims of prudence.
00:06:06.160 And as you go around the Western world, the fetishization of multiculturalism has actually been, I would say, I mean, I do think, for example, in Sweden that it will actually destroy Sweden.
00:06:22.120 So it's not a small thing.
00:06:23.560 And it's interesting to me that Canada, in some sense, you've seen particularly in Europe, but to a lesser extent in other parts of the Commonwealth, in Britain and Australia, voices raised against that view of post-war society.
00:06:42.520 And Canada is really one of the last to have gotten into that, I would say.
00:06:45.880 You mentioned earlier the Quebecer approach to this thing.
00:06:49.920 And what's interesting is that when it comes to any discussion of Canadian values or values in general and a lot of these divides, you aren't allowed to have these discussions in English Canada the way you can in French Canada.
00:07:02.140 I mean, you look at the face covering ban, for example, a policy that never would have flown anywhere outside of Quebec, but in Quebec there's enough of a contingent for it.
00:07:11.700 And I'm wondering why that is.
00:07:12.900 Is it because Quebecers are the victim groups and no one can criticize their approach to it, or is there something else? 0.94
00:07:19.160 Well, no, I think it's more, in a sense, Canada is a microcosm in that respect of the broader approach in the rest of the Western world.
00:07:28.100 So I can understand the Globe and Mail, for example, when they brought in the ban in Quebec about faith, the Globe and Mail and English Canada in general said, this is ridiculous, the idea of the state telling you what kind of clothes you can wear.
00:07:45.480 Which I think if you're in, if you're used to English law, the idea of the state pronouncing on particular garments that are favored or not favored is slightly odd.
00:07:58.360 But outside the English world, in continental Europe, for example, kneecap bans have become quite common.
00:08:10.540 And I forget how many European countries it's up to by now, but several ones have simply said, no, this is banned, you can't do it, you can't wear this stuff in public.
00:08:20.020 So in a sense, Canada is like a microcosm. The divide between English Canada and French Canada is, in a sense, a microcosm of the split in the wider West.
00:08:31.520 And I would say my old friend Boris Johnson, for example, shortly after he stepped down as Foreign Secretary in the UK, and he was saying he didn't like burkas.
00:08:42.020 And he said they reminded him of letterboxes, as they call it. They look like a, looks like the slot you stick the letter in, he said that.
00:08:52.460 And he got into a whole lot of trouble and he wound up being investigated as a hate monger and all the way.
00:08:57.960 It couldn't happen to a nicer guy. You know, I've been there and it's Boris's turn. They come for everyone eventually.
00:09:03.900 But what was interesting to me was that his preamble to that was he'd said he wasn't in favor of these European style bans on covered women in public. 0.75
00:09:18.940 But it still didn't save him from being damned as an Islamophobe. 0.93
00:09:22.700 And that's the interesting, that's what's interesting to me about this kind of conversation, this kind of conversation, is that even if you just offer the mildest criticism of all this, it's enough to get damned as an Islamophobe, a this-a-phobe, a that-a-phobe, whatever it is. 0.96
00:09:43.380 And I think there's something sad about that.
00:09:45.580 But I don't like, when you're, you know, just to pick somewhere at random, Brampton, Ontario, I don't like to see covered women in Brampton. 1.00
00:09:54.980 I think it's sad.
00:09:57.120 And I think if you were to look at almost, you know, what are we now, coming up to 70 years of the independence in the Indian subcontinent.
00:10:09.980 And if you had said to, like Jinnah, the founder, the first governor general of independent Pakistan, if you had said to him that in the so-called old Commonwealth, that you would see huge numbers of covered women walking the streets of English cities, Canadian cities, Australian cities in 1948, he'd have thought you were stark staring nuts and he would not have thought it was a good thing.
00:10:37.060 So when we bring that back to really the broader discussion, is it one of assimilation then?
00:10:44.960 Well, I'm not, I don't know what people are meant to assimilate with in Canada because you have this, you have this situation, which we saw in the sesquicentennial, which is like a tragedy.
00:10:56.360 You know, I felt kind of upset for my kids because everyone should have like a great anniversary for their country once.
00:11:06.180 And it should have been a tremendous birthday party the way the centennial was in 1967.
00:11:12.620 Instead, it was a real sort of buzz killer the way it was handled.
00:11:17.480 And one of the reasons for that is because, which again comes back to, what are you meant to assimilate with?
00:11:23.540 We're told that the first prime minister of Canada is like a hate monger and you have to take his, so let's say you come here from Yemen or Sudan or wherever and you settle in Canada and you pick up a newspaper.
00:11:39.500 You think, oh, it's great, I want to be Canadian.
00:11:41.840 What do they tell you? 0.97
00:11:42.740 That the guys who founded your country are hate mongers and racists and all the, why the hell would you want to assimilate with that? 0.67
00:11:49.080 I mean, that's, that's, that's not just an issue for Canada. 0.68
00:11:52.140 That's an issue, again, for almost every Western society these days.
00:11:55.520 I know you interviewed Kelly Leach during the Conservative leadership race and at the time she was pilloried by the press and the Liberals and all of that for not even specifically defining Canadian values, but by saying there is such a thing as Canadian values.
00:12:10.580 And I have to ask you, can you bring it back?
00:12:12.960 Can you bring back that idea of a country that is not afraid of saying, yes, this is what a Canadian is, this is what Canada is?
00:12:20.660 Well, I think you have to, and I think Canada was really the pioneer of that because I mentioned Sweden.
00:12:31.820 Sweden was basically an homogenous society until about 20 years ago, 25 years ago, when it, when it decided that was no longer cool and that the, the things like the Canadian model were much cooler.
00:12:44.580 But the idea that, you know, Canada is like a, is like a stamp collection, you know, you just want to have one of everything.
00:12:53.920 And it's not, it doesn't, and, and, and, and Canada in that sense is simply, and you know this when you look at any of the official advertising for Canada or Canadian identity, they sell themselves as a kind of, you know,
00:13:09.740 the government sells Canada as a sort of microcosm of the world, in fact, and, and, and, and, and in a sense, this was the conscious thing that Trudeau did in part because he thought it would help weaken French separatism.
00:13:26.080 And instead of stating the obvious reality, to look at the Canadian coat of arms, which has the emblems of England, Scotland, Ireland, and France, they're the four founding nations of modern Canada and of, of the dominion of Canada.
00:13:43.360 And this idea that, you know, we're supposed to deny reality and, and pretend that in fact, instead, it's just a, a coalition of whoever happens to be in.
00:13:56.240 And I find people like people I have a modicum of respect for, like Louise Arbour, the former Supreme Court judge who I debated on stage in Toronto.
00:14:08.800 And it doesn't matter what you say, you know, you mentioned Somalis, and she said, well, maybe we have a lot to learn from Somalis.
00:14:14.920 I don't know. I don't think, I don't think she actually means that.
00:14:18.360 I don't think she wants to live in a society that has Somali characteristics for a moment. 1.00
00:14:27.940 But in a sense, she's not doing anything unusual.
00:14:31.920 She's doing, she's following the logic of Canadian multiculturalism, which to say, which is to say that Somali values are no better or worse than French values. 0.87
00:14:48.700 And at a certain level, I think somewhere deep down, she understands that that's meaningless mumbo jumbo.
00:14:58.660 But at the same time, if you, if you live in a land of meaningless mumbo jumbo for long enough, it sort of starts to come true.
00:15:08.960 Well, you look at the now official catchphrase of Canada, diversity is our strength.
00:15:13.740 I mean, that's the type of thing where if some politician says it, it might not mean anything.
00:15:18.200 No, no, no.
00:15:18.380 That is actually guiding policy.
00:15:19.900 No, but that actually, diversity is our strength.
00:15:21.780 I can't stand that, because diversity is morally neutral. 1.00
00:15:26.780 And you can have five nice ladies like Madame Arbour, five nice CBC listening ladies of Denset and Aj, who like to listen to CBC radio. 0.94
00:15:41.460 And that group of five ladies, Denset and Aj, is not in the least bit diverse. 0.97
00:15:48.680 So you add to them Sudan's leading clitoridectomy practitioner. 0.81
00:15:54.380 And you've made it more diverse, but you haven't necessarily made it better.
00:15:58.980 Diversity is an entirely morally neutral term.
00:16:02.460 And simply saying diversity is our strength with a glassy-eyed expression, because you've been told it ever since kindergarten, does not actually make it so.
00:16:14.240 I think you should actually pitch that to, like, the replacement of The View.
00:16:17.460 You know, Sudan's leading clitoridectomy specialist, Louise Arbour, and everyone else.
00:16:21.620 It would make that show a lot more interesting.
00:16:24.100 But you bring up.
00:16:25.480 Oh, actually, let's not start with The View.
00:16:27.720 This cockamamie thing they've got on the Nationals since Peter Mansbridge retired, they've got, like, four anchors carefully selected according to some CBC focus group thing.
00:16:38.480 Sticks Sudan's leading clitoridectomy practitioner in the middle of the National as the fifth host. 1.00
00:16:44.600 When you bring up that idea of diversity being morally neutral, I find it to be a fascinating one, because the point that I've made is that Trudeau sees diversity as the end game,
00:16:53.620 whereas I've always viewed diversity as some natural thing that might emerge when you're pursuing other values, like free speech and free association and economic opportunity and all of these things.
00:17:04.680 But diversity is itself the ideology.
00:17:07.500 And the question becomes how much the politicians advancing that are going to ignore everything else.
00:17:13.060 And I think that this border crossing crisis we have in Canada is showing that they're prepared to look the other way on pretty much everything just to get to that diversity.
00:17:22.440 Yeah, yeah.
00:17:22.920 And what's interesting to me is that during the years of conservative government, conservatives did not even challenge that.
00:17:32.180 I would say, you know, for example, Jason Kenney is a very smart man in many respects.
00:17:39.120 You could almost rely during during the entire time of Mr. Harper's ministry in Ottawa.
00:17:45.420 You could pick up a paper almost any day of the week and there would be Jason Kenney in some semi-national costume of whichever particular community group he happened to be.
00:17:56.840 And there he would be with a group of Hmong Canadians or Tajik Canadians or whatever, celebrating their particular national day.
00:18:08.800 And it's interesting.
00:18:11.160 It's interesting to me.
00:18:12.540 I think it's a sort of indulgence of I think it's the I think I think it's basically I think it's the latter day equivalent of colonial condescension.
00:18:24.220 You know, you had to put on your piff helmet or your solar topi and go off to Africa or Asia to condescend to the natives. 0.70
00:18:34.320 And I think I think in the modern Western world, we sort of decided we could we could get the same frisson as old school colonialism by bringing the natives here so we could condescend to them closer to home. 0.84
00:18:48.540 I think that's all it is really.
00:18:49.860 At the Conservative Party of Canada's policy convention in August, they actually the members of the party voted on adopting a policy that would eliminate birthright citizenship.
00:19:00.020 And this I find interesting and I don't think it would ever be actually run on.
00:19:05.040 I mean, they can vote for whatever they want.
00:19:06.820 And that doesn't mean Andrew Scheer will talk about it in the in the election.
00:19:09.800 But but a policy like this, what's your take on it?
00:19:12.860 Because even Trump, for all of his, you know, supposed racism and this ism and that ism, hasn't put forward this definitively.
00:19:19.540 Well, he is against birthright citizens.
00:19:22.000 What's interesting to me is that there's only really of the developed nations.
00:19:26.480 It's only really Canada and America that have birthright citizenship.
00:19:30.120 And if you look at, for example, health care policy in Canada, the reason Canada has its health system is because it defines its health care in opposition to America.
00:19:42.720 So if you say in Canada, why don't we have a health care system like Italy?
00:19:46.220 They say, well, I don't know.
00:19:47.280 What is that?
00:19:47.820 All we know is ours isn't like America. 0.87
00:19:50.060 Whatever America's is, we're not like America's system.
00:19:54.080 And so it's interesting to me that that doesn't apply on birthright citizenship.
00:19:58.860 And essentially, it's only America and Canada that have it.
00:20:04.020 For example, in Ireland, if you're born in Ireland, you have to be born either to a citizen of Ireland or of the United Kingdom in order to be a citizen of Ireland at birth.
00:20:20.100 Same similar thing in Australia.
00:20:21.600 And if you think about it, that's far more rational than France and other continental countries are the same.
00:20:31.460 That's far more rational than simply saying a lady gets off the plane eight months and three weeks pregnant,
00:20:40.460 and she checks into a hospital and delivers an American citizen or a Canadian citizen. 0.74
00:20:45.620 Now, in the U.S., it exists supposedly because of Article 14 of the U.S. Constitution supposedly licenses birthright citizenship.
00:20:56.200 It's never actually been tested at the Supreme Court level, that proposition.
00:21:01.120 But everybody's super craven in America about going against so-called anchor babies, birthright citizens, so-called birthright citizenship.
00:21:11.440 In Canada, it's actually a hangover of empire because it goes back to before there was Canadian citizenship,
00:21:23.160 when there was just everyone within His Majesty's dominions was a British subject, and that was it.
00:21:34.900 And there were no subcategories of citizenship underneath one generally imperial view of everybody within the empire as a subject of the crown.
00:21:46.320 And so before they created Canadian citizenship, everyone wants to control their borders, and the Canadian government was no different.
00:21:57.740 So they created a sort of a kind of pre-citizenship idea of someone, a British subject who is born in Canada as a kind of prototype Canadian,
00:22:14.480 to distinguish between someone born in Kingston, a British subject born in Kingston, Ontario,
00:22:19.540 as opposed to one born in Kingston, on Thames, or Kingston, Jamaica, or Kingston, wherever.
00:22:26.520 And what's interesting to me is then when they created Canadian citizenship as a subset of British nationality in 1947,
00:22:39.240 that that was sort of preserved in there, that idea that being born in Canada is what makes you Canadian,
00:22:45.980 which is why Ted Cruz, as you know, was born in Canada, and under the 1947 Canadian Citizenship Act,
00:22:59.360 he was born a Canadian citizen and a British subject.
00:23:03.380 And I used to get, when I was on the Rush Limbaugh show, and I'd be making jokes about Ted Cruz as a Canadian,
00:23:08.820 all the Ted Cruz supporters hated it, but that's like a fact, that's a fact.
00:23:12.480 He was born a British subject and a Canadian citizen, Ted Cruz.
00:23:16.720 And he can't do anything, and he can't do anything, even though in his case, neither of his parents were Canadian.
00:23:25.200 So I can see why that would bother him.
00:23:29.640 The Duke of Wellington was once described as an Irishman, and he said a man can be born in a stable and it doesn't make him a horse.
00:23:36.700 And Ted Cruz looks on Canada as being born in a stable, and he doesn't want to be called a horse.
00:23:44.860 And so I think that whole view of citizen, that whole, in the Canadian context,
00:23:52.460 the birthright citizenship basically predates the creation of Canadian citizenship in the 1940s.
00:24:00.700 And the other thing about it, too, is that originally, when, I think it's around the time of the First World War,
00:24:12.520 it's about a century, but they started to do, they started to distinguish between British subjects born in Canada
00:24:22.060 and British subjects born in the rest of the empire.
00:24:26.820 And that was really the logic behind so-called birthright citizenship,
00:24:32.360 is it's not to mean that if, you know, somebody gets off the plane from Tajikistan
00:24:37.020 and has a baby at the Royal Victoria in Montreal that that baby is Canadian.
00:24:43.200 It was a way for the government of Canada to distinguish between the people for whom it was responsible
00:24:51.200 and people elsewhere within the Commonwealth.
00:24:54.640 And so this idea that it now means you get off the plane, you give birth,
00:24:59.580 and you've given birth to a Canadian citizen is not how it was intended
00:25:04.200 and actually is a perversion of how the thing was originally set up.
00:25:09.660 You see this in the discussions in the United States about illegal immigration there as well
00:25:15.620 and this broader entitlement.
00:25:17.420 And what you're describing seems to stem from that same phenomenon
00:25:20.760 where this entitlement that people have in all areas of their life extends to international borders.
00:25:26.760 And I've heard Canadians, for example, talk about, you know,
00:25:29.340 the lack of rights and freedoms you have going into another country.
00:25:32.440 And they get all huffy about it.
00:25:34.060 And I know you're no fan of crossing international borders.
00:25:36.740 But again, you do not have a right to go into another country and start calling the shots.
00:25:41.800 And that seems to have been lost, that idea.
00:25:44.560 No, I find that odd because I'm an immigrant to the United States.
00:25:52.220 And if I go on Fox News and I talk about immigration,
00:25:55.420 I don't know why you're talking about this.
00:25:56.640 You're an immigrant.
00:25:57.160 So, yeah, I know that.
00:26:01.700 That's not news to me.
00:26:02.940 And I accept that my presence in the United States is in the gift of the government of the United States.
00:26:10.380 And if the government of the United States said, 0.99
00:26:12.300 we don't want you here, bugger off and don't come back, 1.00
00:26:16.000 I think they have every right to do that. 0.97
00:26:18.740 And what I find odd about, for example, a view of immigration,
00:26:23.860 and it's revealing to me this, if you talk to, like, Louise Arbor, who we mentioned,
00:26:29.740 is their idea that somehow the host nation now has to assimilate to the immigrants.
00:26:35.980 So, for example, you can have a country that's, you know, got 50-50,
00:26:42.280 for the sake of argument, let's just say Canada.
00:26:45.220 You've got some Anglo-Celts and you've got a French-speaking minority.
00:26:50.320 But then let's say you let in people from Indonesia.
00:26:57.940 And so Canada becomes 20% Indonesian. 0.99
00:27:01.560 And then they start saying, well, these Indonesians can't relate to certain things about Canada.
00:27:06.600 They, you know, they can't relate to Boxing Day,
00:27:10.700 and they can't relate to the monarchy, and they can't relate to Hockey Night in Canada,
00:27:16.560 and they can't relate to...
00:27:18.160 And so we need to change these things because they can't relate to them.
00:27:23.600 And you think just...
00:27:26.160 And very few people actually stop and think, well, hang on a minute.
00:27:29.720 In that case, why did they come here?
00:27:31.140 You know, I can't...
00:27:33.040 I...
00:27:34.100 For example, in Sudan, I can't relate to people killing each other with machetes.
00:27:39.860 And that's why I think twice about moving to Sudan.
00:27:43.840 But if I got to Sudan, I would be very surprised to switch on whatever the Sudanese equivalent of the national is,
00:27:51.560 and then say, well, now we've 15% of the population is Canadian,
00:27:55.280 and they can't relate to people machete-ing each other all to bits.
00:28:00.620 And so, you know, maybe we ought to be thinking about introducing hockey and poutine.
00:28:07.220 I would find that very...
00:28:08.760 Nobody expects the Sudanese to look at it that way.
00:28:12.260 But in the Western world, we expect the host nation increasingly to assimilate with the immigrants. 0.87
00:28:23.280 And that's why the British Labour Party now is virulently anti-Semitic,
00:28:28.620 because there's a democratic, demographic logic to that.
00:28:34.240 And that's why you have extraordinary levels of sexual assault in Sweden.
00:28:40.820 And that's why in Toulouse in France,
00:28:44.280 Jews cannot walk about with identifying signs, outward signs of their faith. 1.00
00:28:51.160 And why the gay bars are folding in Amsterdam,
00:28:54.920 because the host nations are assimilating with the immigrants.
00:28:59.500 You have this tragic case in Iowa,
00:29:02.600 where an illegal kills a young 20-year-old college student,
00:29:06.820 and then you have lawmakers in the U.S., Democrats,
00:29:09.640 calling for the prosecution of the people that are supposed to get the illegals out of the country, 0.96
00:29:14.400 and the dismantling of ICE.
00:29:15.640 And even in Canada, for all of its permissiveness in state multiculturalism,
00:29:20.020 we don't talk about arresting or shutting down border enforcement.
00:29:24.060 But perhaps that's because our border enforcement is not being ordered to do anything right now.
00:29:28.620 But do you see this as being a blip,
00:29:30.940 or do you see this as being the new reality of the Western left?
00:29:33.880 No, I think it's actually the ultimate expression of modern progressivism,
00:29:42.140 which you see in the protests,
00:29:45.820 certainly south of the border in the United States.
00:29:49.140 They deny that borders are a thing.
00:29:52.560 When I went to see Trump speak in Burlington, Vermont, when he was campaigning,
00:30:01.200 which is the heart of Bernie Sanders' fiefdom in Vermont, Bernie Stan.
00:30:06.720 And there were these, so it was like a great carnival atmosphere,
00:30:09.780 and there were all these right-wing, left-wing protesters all over the streets,
00:30:13.000 people who wanted to see Trump, people who hated Trump.
00:30:15.180 And on the left-wing side of the street,
00:30:18.600 there were all these guys holding up signs saying,
00:30:23.360 we don't want your racist fear, immigrants are welcome here.
00:30:26.240 Well, I've been, you know, in Vermont and northern New England for many decades now,
00:30:32.080 and I can't say I've ever found that immigrants are welcome here particularly. 1.00
00:30:35.540 Maybe just me.
00:30:37.440 Maybe that's just this particular immigrant. 1.00
00:30:39.660 But those people actually are living in,
00:30:45.420 they're actually publicly committed to the idea
00:30:48.500 that there are six and a half billion people around the world who aren't American,
00:30:54.960 and they should all be entitled to move here.
00:30:57.520 And that's increasingly the view of apparently sane people in the United States and in,
00:31:04.600 now, if you look at it, because I think this is actually going to happen.
00:31:08.900 So this proposition will be tested, not in North America, but in Europe,
00:31:15.840 because if you look at Africa, you're going to have a demographic explosion
00:31:20.580 where countries that can't support their present populations
00:31:25.460 are going to have six times that population towards the end of the century.
00:31:32.020 Now, is it likely that a country that can't support 10 million people
00:31:35.960 is going to be able to support 60 million people?
00:31:38.400 No, they're all going to get on little boats and go across the Mediterranean 0.82
00:31:42.900 and go to Spain and Italy and wherever they can.
00:31:46.100 And if you think about it, there's roughly a billion people in the developed world.
00:31:49.780 There's, you know, like three, whatever it is,
00:31:51.620 380 million in North America, and there's 500 million in Europe,
00:31:59.180 and there's a few bits and bobs in Japan and Australia and New Zealand and so forth.
00:32:05.740 And there's six billion people who are in the rest of the world.
00:32:09.920 And a relatively small percentage of that has to decide to move to the developed world
00:32:18.240 just to sort of capsize it.
00:32:21.120 And I think from that point of view, those people who say,
00:32:27.580 we don't want borders, we are the world, we are the children, we are the future,
00:32:33.080 we're all the same, it doesn't matter whether you're Louise Arbor
00:32:37.200 or you're a headhunter in the jungles of New Guinea, we're all the same.
00:32:42.580 And those people are going to get a chance to test that thesis a lot sooner than they think.
00:32:48.080 Mark Stein, thank you very much.
00:32:49.900 My pleasure, Andrew.
00:32:51.520 All right, for the True North Initiative, I'm Andrew Lawton.