Juno News - EXCLUSIVE： Andrew Lawton sits down with Maxime Bernier

00:00:00.000 Andrew Lawton here with another True North Initiative exclusive interview.

00:00:07.340 Very pleased to be joined by Maxime Vernier, leader of the People's Party of Canada, formerly

00:00:13.060 a leadership candidate for the Conservative Party of Canada.

00:00:16.400 A lot's changed, though, in the last year and a half.

00:00:18.780 We'll talk about that with Maxime, but thank you for joining me.

00:00:21.720 Thanks very much for this invitation.

00:00:23.680 You know, it's always a privilege for me to be able to speak with you and with your people,

00:00:28.480 so that's a nice opportunity.

00:00:30.680 One of the big issues for us at the True North Initiative has always been immigration 1.00

00:00:34.660 in Canada, wanting a policy-based approach to immigration, but one that doesn't really

00:00:39.880 resort to, I think, what you described very accurately this past summer, which is cult

00:00:44.740 of diversity and very forced and contrived diversity.

00:00:49.220 And I'm wondering why that issue has become so contentious in Canada, because you were

00:00:53.740 speaking the truth on a lot of issues, and I didn't find anything.

00:00:57.660 I disagreed with about it, but you were still subjected to the name-calling of the racism

00:01:02.820 and the xenophobia and all of these other isms.

00:01:05.620 Why is that, that that issue has become so powerful in that space?

00:01:11.400 I think, first of all, because we are the only party who speaks for less immigration,

00:01:16.620 and as you know, we're against mass immigration.

00:01:19.660 Justin Trudeau and the Conservative Party of Canada, Andrew Scheer, and the NDP, they're

00:01:26.000 all asking for more immigrants.

00:01:27.820 So, I think the press and everybody is used to having more and more immigrants every year, 1.00

00:01:33.460 and when you have a political party like our party, the People's Party of Canada, we are

00:01:38.180 questioning that.

00:01:39.580 That can be a surprise for everybody.

00:01:41.840 But I think we are in line with 49 percent of the population, because 49 percent of the 0.93

00:01:47.220 population, they want less immigration in Canada.

00:01:51.220 They want to be sure that people who are coming here, they will integrate to our society, they

00:01:56.500 will participate to our society.

00:01:58.620 So, and I'm very proud to have that position, and we'll see what will happen.

00:02:03.360 But what we, and we're very serious about it, because we were saying for the last couple

00:02:08.660 of months that we must have less immigrants.

00:02:11.780 About the average that we had under the opera government, 250,000 new immigrants a year.

00:02:19.320 And like that, we'll be able to integrate them, and so that's our position.

00:02:23.100 But it's too bad that some people are saying that maybe we, and personally, I'm a racist

00:02:30.120 because of that.

00:02:31.120 I think it's, first of all, it's not true, but it is not helping the cause.

00:02:35.980 We need to have a real debate about immigration.

00:02:39.120 Those criticisms were also put towards Stephen Harper and Jason Kenney, but the Conservative

00:02:44.320 government under Stephen Harper was actually very pro-immigration.

00:02:47.340 I mean, immigrant numbers steadily increased in Canada.

00:02:50.500 Do you think that was done responsibly, or do you think that that was bad policy?

00:02:54.040 It was a good policy, and that's why it was very successful.

00:02:59.840 And we focused at that time for more economic immigrants, and I think that's great.

00:03:04.420 That's what we want to do.

00:03:05.760 You know there's three kinds of immigration in Canada, the economic immigration, the reunification

00:03:12.180 of family, and also the refugees.

00:03:14.920 So what we want, we want a little bit less of refugees, less of unification of family, 1.00

00:03:19.740 and more economic immigrants, because the Canadian society, we need that.

00:03:24.180 So it's a policy that is in line with Canadians.

00:03:26.660 It's in line also with the needs of our economy.

00:03:29.560 And when we were in government, that was actually what we did.

00:03:33.520 So we just want to go back for what we did the last 75 years.

00:03:38.460 That's only just St. Trudeau the last four years that is changing that with mass immigration.

00:03:43.200 And so it is not this country has been built by immigrants, but with the same system that 0.96

00:03:52.180 I want us to promote the same system that we had the last 75 years.

00:03:56.460 But you said a few moments ago, you're the only party pushing for fewer immigrants.

00:04:01.620 Why is that important to get that net number down if you're saying that economic immigrants

00:04:06.040 are actually quite a positive force in Canada?

00:04:08.400 Yeah, I'm saying that because I want to be sure that people who are coming here are coming

00:04:12.620 here for the right reason.

00:04:14.140 They want to have a job.

00:04:15.860 And if it is an economic immigrant, that person will have a job that would be good for her or 1.00

00:04:22.460 him.

00:04:23.460 And first of all, integrate to our society, sharing our Canadian values, that's important.

00:04:29.680 Our Canadian values are the Western civilization values.

00:04:32.540 So we must promote that.

00:04:34.260 And people who came in Canada 75 years ago, they were coming to Canada because of freedom

00:04:42.860 and Western civilization values.

00:04:45.580 So we must put a focus on that.

00:04:49.000 And I don't want also why we just want to have less immigration.

00:04:53.020 Let's try that.

00:04:54.020 And I'm looking what's happening right now in Europe, in certain countries in Europe.

00:04:59.520 They have a big challenge to integrate their immigrants.

00:05:02.860 So I don't want Canada to be that in 20 years from now.

00:05:06.600 And I think it's time to question that for being sure that in 20 years from now or 25 years

00:05:10.880 from now, we will be the country that we are right now.

00:05:14.000 Yeah, Europe has always been a tremendously important thing to watch because in a number

00:05:19.320 of demographic senses, Canada is 10, 15 years behind Europe.

00:05:24.160 And we saw Germany already face some monumental challenges because of what was very sloppy 0.94

00:05:29.720 immigration.

00:05:30.900 The United Kingdom is seeing the same thing.

00:05:33.020 Scandinavia.

00:05:34.140 Are there countries in particular in Europe that you think Canada is on track to emulate

00:05:38.440 if we don't make a change?

00:05:40.000 Well, I cannot predict the future, but I think that's why I don't want that kind of future.

00:05:45.860 So I think if we are serious about immigration and we are going back of what we did, very 0.98

00:05:51.740 successful in the past, we won't have the challenges that they're having.

00:05:55.980 And actually, the debate may be in English Canada, it can be new about less immigration.

00:06:00.860 But in Quebec, as you know, we have a new Quebec government, CACIS government, Coalition

00:06:07.280 Avenue in Quebec.

00:06:08.280 And one of the very important part of their program, it was for less immigration.

00:06:13.140 And, you know, he was elected and nobody thinks that Mr. Legault is a racist.

00:06:19.140 So they were arguing for 40,000 new immigrants in Quebec instead of 50,000, so 10,000 less.

00:06:26.620 And they were elected on that.

00:06:28.020 So I think people are ready in Quebec, and I think the same thing in English Canada.

00:06:31.960 They're ready for that because they don't want our country being like some countries 0.99

00:06:38.920 in Europe, that kind of challenges.

00:06:41.020 We don't need that in Canada.

00:06:42.340 Now, you're from Quebec, obviously, but you have obviously traveled the country.

00:06:46.820 I think your nickname, the Albertan from Quebec, suggests you've got a proud appeal there.

00:06:53.020 But in Quebec, there's always been a sense of openness to discuss the issues of values

00:06:58.640 and to discuss national identity and to discuss even the intersection of religion and cultural

00:07:06.420 values.

00:07:06.880 We saw it with Nick Cabs and all of these other things.

00:07:10.140 Why is that discussion allowed in Quebec, but in English Canada, no one's prepared to

00:07:15.220 have that?

00:07:16.480 Well, I'm prepared to have that discussion.

00:07:18.200 Well, but no one else, though.

00:07:19.360 You see there is a divide there.

00:07:21.020 I mean, that ban on religious symbols in the public sector was contentious in Quebec,

00:07:25.960 yes, but that would never happen in Ontario, in BC.

00:07:29.080 Why in Quebec is that fair game?

00:07:30.400 Well, I think because maybe the majority of the Francophone, the majority Francophone in

00:07:35.400 Quebec, they want to keep their culture and their values, what they believe in, and that's

00:07:43.920 very important for them.

00:07:45.680 They are a minority in North America, or in America, so for Quebecers, and also English-speaking

00:07:54.680 Quebecers, they're part of the society in Quebec, and they build that society with us.

00:08:00.060 I think they understand also, and that's not new with the PEQ and all the debate about the

00:08:05.560 independence of Quebec, Quebec having a, being a distinct society at that time.

00:08:10.740 So now we are past that, and the independence of Quebec, nobody wants that right now, but

00:08:19.880 they want to keep their culture, and maybe that's why they're ready to have this kind

00:08:23.600 of debate.

00:08:24.720 And I think in English-Canada, they are ready also.

00:08:28.200 Maybe it's only the journalists or, you know, when you have 49 percent of Canadians that want

00:08:33.860 to have less immigration, we must listen to them, and that's what we are doing.

00:08:38.860 The People's Party of Canada, the Parti Populaire de Canada, not a Quebec party, it's a national

00:08:43.860 party.

00:08:44.860 Yes.

00:08:45.860 You've said you want to run candidates in all 338 ridings, but there are a number of people,

00:08:49.860 even Conservatives, that have a level of apprehension about another Quebec leader.

00:08:54.860 And I've heard this, and I don't share it, but it's something that you're going to be up against.

00:08:58.860 You know, I cannot do anything about that.

00:09:02.860 You know, I will focus on what I can change.

00:09:04.860 Yes, I'm coming from Quebec, I'm a Francophone, I'm speaking English with an accent.

00:09:08.860 I'll try to improve that, but you know.

00:09:11.860 And my writing is both, but my writing is the most conservative writing in the province

00:09:16.860 of Quebec.

00:09:17.860 It's the most free market writing.

00:09:19.860 You won with what, 59 percent of the vote last time?

00:09:21.860 59 last time, 67 before.

00:09:23.860 I hope I will be successful at the next election.

00:09:26.860 I'm working for that.

00:09:28.860 But no, me coming from Quebec, people outside Quebec, in Western Canada, in Alberta, BC,

00:09:38.860 they know what I believe in.

00:09:40.860 The most important is to promote the values that we believe in.

00:09:43.860 And I'm doing that, and I will do that until the election.

00:09:46.860 The program is very coherent, based on four principles, individual freedom, personal responsibility,

00:09:53.860 respect and fairness.

00:09:54.860 And I think people appreciate that.

00:09:56.860 Yes, I'm coming from Quebec, but because they are sharing the same values that I'm promoting,

00:10:01.860 people like it.

00:10:02.860 And that's why they call me the Albertan from Quebec, because I'm a free market politician.

00:10:07.860 Let's talk about your strategy heading into the election.

00:10:11.860 It's about a year away from now.

00:10:13.860 Yeah.

00:10:14.860 And when you look at ridings that the Conservatives won in 2011, when Harper won a majority, and

00:10:20.860 ridings that they then lost in 2015, particularly around the greater Toronto area, a lot of those

00:10:27.860 ridings were won by the Conservatives with a margin of 2,000 votes.

00:10:32.860 You throw another party that's going after, in many respects, votes from the right.

00:10:38.860 How are you not just going to be a spoiler for Conservatives?

00:10:41.860 First of all, before I resigned from the Conservative Party of Canada and we formed the People's

00:10:48.860 Party of Canada, Andrew Scheer was at 31% in the poll and Justin Trudeau at 39%.

00:10:54.860 So he wasn't winning at that time.

00:10:57.860 But what we want to do, we want to be sure to have Conservatives that will vote for us,

00:11:03.860 but also people who didn't vote at the last election.

00:11:06.860 The 30% of the population at the last election didn't bother to go to vote because they didn't

00:11:12.860 believe in politicians.

00:11:13.860 So we are doing politics differently, and I think that we'll be able to attract these 1.00

00:11:18.860 people.

00:11:19.860 So I think people coming from the Conservative Party of Canada, people coming from other parties

00:11:24.860 and people who didn't vote, we can build a kind of coalition and being an alternative.

00:11:29.860 And I'm saying to these people who want to be sure to get rid of Justin Trudeau, just watch us.

00:11:36.860 You know, there's 10% of the population in Canada right now that they're looking to vote for us.

00:11:43.860 So 10%, and we just started that, in three, four, five months from now, I think we can grow from there.

00:11:51.860 We are the party who is having the momentum.

00:11:54.860 So I'm saying to them who are not sure, come with us and we'll...

00:11:57.860 Because if you vote for Andrew Scheer right now and Justin Trudeau, for me that's the same.

00:12:02.860 Andrew Scheer lost his conservative values.

00:12:05.860 You know, they believe in the Paris Accord.

00:12:08.860 They want to impose strict regulation for carbon emission.

00:12:13.860 Yes, they are, again, carbon tax.

00:12:16.860 But, you know, they believe in that Paris Accord.

00:12:19.860 They don't want to touch immigration.

00:12:22.860 They don't want to abolish corporate welfare.

00:12:24.860 They don't believe in free markets for poultry, dairy and eggs.

00:12:28.860 They want to protect 15,000 producers under the cartel of supply management.

00:12:34.860 And Canadians are paying twice the price for that, artificial high prices for these products.

00:12:40.860 So they don't...

00:12:42.860 What they're doing right now, they're looking at a poll, they're looking at some survey, and they try to please everybody.

00:12:47.860 We don't do that.

00:12:49.860 If you like what we are saying, come and come with us and be a member and vote for us.

00:12:55.860 If you don't, it's okay.

00:12:56.860 You know, there's other parties and you can vote for the other ones.

00:12:59.860 But we won't try to please everybody.

00:13:01.860 So that's a big difference between us and these two old parties.

00:13:05.860 And I'm saying to them, if you want to be sure to be Justin Trudeau and you're a real conservative, come with us.

00:13:11.860 But even so, that 10%, let's say you can increase it to 15 or even 20%, that's not enough to win a majority.

00:13:17.860 It might not be enough to win a minority.

00:13:19.860 Maybe we can have the balance of power.

00:13:21.860 Possibly.

00:13:22.860 So let me ask you, would you enter into a coalition government with the Conservative Party?

00:13:26.860 No, I'm not thinking about that.

00:13:29.860 You're not thinking about it or you wouldn't do it?

00:13:31.860 I won't do it.

00:13:32.860 I won't do it.

00:13:33.860 You know, we won't do any compromise with our principle.

00:13:36.860 So I quit the Conservative Party of Canada because they didn't have any principle anymore.

00:13:41.860 And so I don't want to go back there.

00:13:44.860 People like the authenticity of our campaign and so we'll be authentic.

00:13:48.860 So, no, we'll fight.

00:13:50.860 And if we have, I don't know, 35 or 40 or 60 members of parliament, we'll deal with that.

00:13:55.860 But right now, the focus of our party is to be sure to have organization all across the country, in every region.

00:14:02.860 So we want to do that before the end of December, having a writing association up and running.

00:14:07.860 And after that, we'll look for good candidates.

00:14:09.860 Our goal is to have all our candidates before the end of May next year.

00:14:14.860 And after that, we'll be ready for the election.

00:14:17.860 But I don't know what will be the result of that election.

00:14:21.860 For me, I will ask people to, for once, vote for your values.

00:14:25.860 Vote for what you believe in.

00:14:27.860 And don't try to have a strategic vote.

00:14:29.860 Do you think the Conservative Party of Canada has changed from two years ago, before Andrew Scheer was the leader, to today?

00:14:37.860 Or do you think it is fundamentally the same party it was before he was the leader?

00:14:40.860 Well, I think that we had a lot of debates when I was a Conservative, and we had the leadership campaign.

00:14:48.860 And at that time, you know, after Harper, we had, as a leader, Ronald Ambrose.

00:14:54.860 But the party was not, ideologically, was not trying to change anything.

00:14:59.860 It's just during the leadership campaign, we had a lot of candidates, and I was part of that.

00:15:04.860 We had a big debate.

00:15:05.860 But after the campaign, when Andrew Scheer became the leader of the party, what I tried to do, I tried to push the ideas that I put forward during the leadership campaign.

00:15:16.860 Because 49 percent of the members, they like it, they voted for that.

00:15:21.860 And I think at that time that I would be able to influence the party.

00:15:25.860 I would be able to change the philosophy of the party, to change the platform of the party.

00:15:29.860 But after a year, I wasn't able to do that.

00:15:32.860 I had a conversation with Andrew Scheer, and he told me, Maxime, all your ideas, bold ideas, a big reform, but it won't be part of our platform for the next campaign.

00:15:42.860 So, there's the Conservative Party of Canada under Stephen Harper, and after that, the leadership campaign, a lot of ideas.

00:15:50.860 And the leader decided, a year after that, not to take any of the ideas that we put forward.

00:15:54.860 So, for me, I had two choices, to go back in the private sector, or if I want to stay in politics, to create our own party.

00:16:02.860 And that's what we did.

00:16:03.860 But even, let's take supply management as an issue here.

00:16:06.860 The Conservatives under Stephen Harper were still supporting supply management.

00:16:10.860 I know that frustrated you, but you did defend it as a minister.

00:16:13.860 I did, yes.

00:16:14.860 And that's the role of a cabinet minister.

00:16:15.860 I respect that.

00:16:16.860 But even other issues that you're raising now have always been conservative issues.

00:16:20.860 You know, you look at boutique tax credits.

00:16:23.860 That's something that Stephen Harper was big on.

00:16:25.860 So, the challenge for a lot of people, I think, on the right, is that it looks like the party that you're calling morally and intellectually corrupt

00:16:33.860 isn't all that different from the party that you served as a minister in.

00:16:36.860 Yeah, but when I was a minister, I tried to change that.

00:16:40.860 Think about supply management.

00:16:42.860 I tried to have the abolition of that system.

00:16:46.860 But, you know, my colleagues were telling me, Maxime, first of all, you must convince the members of our party,

00:16:52.860 because the members supported the supply management system.

00:16:56.860 And after that, it must be part of our platform.

00:16:58.860 So, I wasn't able.

00:17:00.860 Abolishing corporate welfare.

00:17:01.860 I wasn't just a minister.

00:17:03.860 I was the minister who gave a lot of subsidies to big corporations.

00:17:07.860 But, you know, I tried around the cabinet table to abolish that.

00:17:11.860 I wasn't successful.

00:17:12.860 And that's why, after all that, you know, we are building a real party who believes in free markets and without any compromise.

00:17:22.860 So, I fight for that.

00:17:24.860 I was not successful.

00:17:25.860 And I didn't have time to waste with the conservative.

00:17:28.860 And that's why I decided to create that party.

00:17:31.860 And like you said also, yes, I was defending when I was a minister the supply management system.

00:17:38.860 But like I wrote, I said, I won't do that again.

00:17:42.860 I'm speaking for what I believe with passion, with conviction.

00:17:45.860 And I was in a position to do that because I was a minister.

00:17:48.860 And that was the position of the government.

00:17:50.860 So, for me, no more that.

00:17:53.860 And I was very pleased when I started the leadership.

00:17:55.860 That was my first policy announcement for the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada

00:18:00.860 when I said no more corporate welfare but no more supply management.

00:18:05.860 And now it's part.

00:18:06.860 If you believe in free markets, you cannot say, oh, yeah, free market is good for all the other industry.

00:18:11.860 But, no, for poultry, eggs, and dairy producer, they must have a socialist system.

00:18:18.860 So, we are current with the free market principle.

00:18:21.860 And I think that's why we are able to attract people.

00:18:24.860 So, I get that when you talk about these frustrations and trying to work within the system.

00:18:30.860 But you put your vision to the party members.

00:18:33.860 You signed up a lot of new members.

00:18:35.860 You famously took aim at fake conservatives who signed up to block you.

00:18:39.860 And that's, unfortunately, a part of leaderships and nominations.

00:18:43.860 But I have to switch it around here.

00:18:45.860 Let's say that Andrew Scheer had lost and you had emerged victorious.

00:18:49.860 And he did what you did.

00:18:51.860 He said, you know what, I want these policies, so I'm going to create my own party.

00:18:55.860 How would you, as conservative leader, have responded to that?

00:18:58.860 First of all, for me, winning with 51-49, because I lost with 49 and Andrew win with 51.

00:19:07.860 So, being in that position, it would have been very difficult for me.

00:19:12.860 First of all, because I was the candidate for change, for big reform.

00:19:16.860 And I didn't have the support of the caucus.

00:19:19.860 I had only six members of parliament who supported me during the leadership on 98 members, conservative

00:19:25.860 members of parliament.

00:19:26.860 So, being at that position 51-49, I would have been in a position to have Andrew Scheer as

00:19:33.860 my number two and bring him in board to be able to manage a caucus, to be able to have

00:19:39.860 compromise with the platform, our platform and his platform.

00:19:43.860 So, but Andrew didn't do that with me.

00:19:46.860 He didn't ask me to come and be his number two.

00:19:48.860 But, you know, that's live and that's okay.

00:19:51.860 Like, I'll give you an example in Ontario.

00:19:54.860 Premier Ford, he won the leadership.

00:19:58.860 But what he did after that, Christine Elliott, she's the number two.

00:20:02.860 She's part of the decisions, she's with him.

00:20:05.860 So, he's building a big team.

00:20:08.860 And Andrew didn't do that after the leadership.

00:20:10.860 And I tried to have an input.

00:20:14.860 And after a year, I said, I cannot have any input, so I'm going to quit.

00:20:18.860 But for me, the way to deal with Andrew Scheer number two would have been to integrate him

00:20:24.860 in our team, like Doug Ford is doing here in Ontario.

00:20:28.860 I backed you in your leadership bit, and I have no regrets about that.

00:20:32.860 Thank you.

00:20:33.860 You're the only one that was putting forward really liberty-focused ideas.

00:20:36.860 Yes.

00:20:37.860 And when you started tweeting this summer about things that were sort of disenfranchising

00:20:42.860 you from the media and from the party establishment, I still supported you because I still have

00:20:46.860 not found anything in that that I disagreed with.

00:20:49.860 When you launched your own party, I said, I'm going to take a wait-and-see approach, which

00:20:53.860 I still am.

00:20:54.860 And that's one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you today, because I've got questions myself

00:20:58.860 that I haven't seen answered.

00:20:59.860 And one of the big ones is how you, who have been in politics for a while, feel about doing

00:21:05.860 what the Conservative Party spent years trying to recover from, which was a fractured right.

00:21:10.860 I mean, it wasn't that long ago that the reform and then the alliance were blocking the PCs.

00:21:16.860 And we had the party reunited for, what, 12 years?

00:21:20.860 Yeah.

00:21:21.860 Or 14 years, I guess.

00:21:22.860 And now we're split again.

00:21:23.860 You've been around since it was split before.

00:21:25.860 Yeah.

00:21:26.860 Why do you think it's a good idea to do this?

00:21:28.860 First of all, when you are speaking about splitting the right, for me right now, the

00:21:35.860 Conservative Party of Canada, it is not a right-wing party.

00:21:37.860 They're like the liberal.

00:21:38.860 Like I told you, on supply management, on Paris Accord, on foreign affairs, the Trudeau

00:21:47.860 government, they're giving a billion, million of dollars to other countries to fight climate

00:21:52.860 change and to build roads in other countries.

00:21:55.860 For me, it is not the role of the Canadian government to do that.

00:21:58.860 But the Conservatives, they're sharing that, giving subsidies to businesses.

00:22:02.860 They're okay with that.

00:22:03.860 They want to create another agency.

00:22:04.860 So the Conservative Party of Canada, it is not a right-wing party right now.

00:22:09.860 So what I'm telling you, if you really want to have big reform and reform based on free-market

00:22:17.860 principle, we are the only alternative.

00:22:19.860 So that's my goal.

00:22:20.860 And if you want to be strategic and you want to be sure that Justin Trudeau won't be the prime

00:22:25.860 Minister in a year from now, come with us right now and help us to build that momentum

00:22:30.860 and being more efficient.

00:22:32.860 When you launched your party with the name People's Party of Canada, a lot of people,

00:22:37.860 well, some people took issue with it because they said it sounded very left-wing, People's

00:22:42.860 Party.

00:22:43.860 But I wanted to ask you, I mean, what is the vision of your coalition?

00:22:46.860 You mentioned people that are not voters typically coming out.

00:22:50.860 But right now you're saying that it's the only right-wing party.

00:22:53.860 Are you trying to go after people that aren't conventionally Conservatives?

00:22:57.860 I think the majority of our supporters will be that.

00:23:01.860 But I spoke with one of our members in Newfoundland and he said, Maxime, I voted NDP last time

00:23:07.860 and I want to vote for you.

00:23:08.860 I said, why?

00:23:09.860 Because you want to get rid of supply management and that would be good for the poor.

00:23:14.860 It's a regressive tax on poor and you want to abolish corporate welfare.

00:23:19.860 So that's very important for me.

00:23:21.860 And you're the only one who's speaking about that.

00:23:23.860 And I want that to be a reform in Canada.

00:23:26.860 So I'm supporting you.

00:23:27.860 So we can have, but people must share our principle.

00:23:30.860 And if they share our principle, perfect, they will come in our party.

00:23:34.860 We've talked about immigration.

00:23:36.860 We've talked about supply management and some of the free market ideas.

00:23:40.860 What are the other visions that you want to bring to Canadian politics through the People's Party of Canada?

00:23:45.860 Well, like you said, boutique tax credit.

00:23:47.860 I don't believe in that.

00:23:48.860 We, when I was a Conservative and I was part of the Opera government, we did that to win election.

00:23:54.860 So we were taxing people and used their money to give that to a special interest group,

00:23:59.860 to have their vote with a boutique tax credit.

00:24:02.860 I don't believe in that.

00:24:04.860 So that's why the People's Party of Canada, we want to work for the people, with the people.

00:24:09.860 And we are working for all Canadians.

00:24:11.860 So we won't do that.

00:24:13.860 We have a tax reform that is very bold.

00:24:17.860 So we want to have only two tax rates.

00:24:19.860 One at 15% for people earning more than $15,000 to $100,000.

00:24:24.860 And 25% for people earning more than $100,000.

00:24:29.860 And for the poor, we will increase the personal exemption from $11,000 to $15,000.

00:24:36.860 So two tax rates that will help the poor, that will be fair for everybody.

00:24:40.860 But we'll be able to do that by abolishing corporate welfare.

00:24:43.860 We can save $5 to $8 billion there.

00:24:46.860 So we'll use that to lower taxes to Canadians.

00:24:49.860 So we have a comprehensive platform.

00:24:52.860 And it's very different than when the upper government did.

00:24:55.860 And we don't want to please a special interest group.

00:24:58.860 You know, you like what you're doing.

00:24:59.860 I like to say, you know, I was with a group, a Muslim group, and they told me, Maxime, during my leadership campaign,

00:25:05.860 and they told me, Maxime, you must come to visit us.

00:25:09.860 We have a lot of Muslims that are conservative, and they're ready to support a candidate.

00:25:13.860 We have a lot of questions for every candidate.

00:25:15.860 It's the same questions.

00:25:16.860 And they were asking me questions, and they said, you know, we're going to publish that on our website,

00:25:21.860 and our members will decide, and they will vote.

00:25:25.860 So I did the interview, like all the other candidates.

00:25:28.860 And the last question was, what are you going to do for the Muslim community in Canada?

00:25:32.860 And they said, you can take your time, Maxime.

00:25:34.860 It's the most important question.

00:25:36.860 He said, I don't need time.

00:25:37.860 He said, nothing.

00:25:38.860 He said, I won't do nothing.

00:25:40.860 You're Canadians first. 1.00

00:25:42.860 I'm working for all Canadians.

00:25:44.860 I will do nothing for the Christian Canadian. 1.00

00:25:47.860 I won't do nothing for the Jewish Canadian.

00:25:49.860 I won't do nothing for the Muslim Canadian.

00:25:51.860 You are Canadian.

00:25:52.860 So, yes, I will do something for you because you are Canadians.

00:25:55.860 So I don't try to please every special interest group.

00:25:58.860 They are not a special interest group.

00:25:59.860 They're Canadians.

00:26:00.860 That's important.

00:26:01.860 That's the foundation of our party.

00:26:03.860 That's the big difference with us and all the other parties.

00:26:06.860 Do you think in the Canadian political system it's possible to win elections without buying

00:26:10.860 votes of special interest groups?

00:26:11.860 Yes.

00:26:12.860 Yes, it is.

00:26:13.860 We'll prove it.

00:26:14.860 We are doing politics differently.

00:26:16.860 And that's why we have people that didn't vote at the last election.

00:26:19.860 They're coming to us.

00:26:20.860 30 percent of the population.

00:26:22.860 Imagine if we have only half of that.

00:26:24.860 It's 15 percent.

00:26:25.860 Plus the other one, 10, 15. 0.93

00:26:27.860 So that's why, you know, people are not stupid. 0.98

00:26:31.860 And the journalist said when we launched a party, the People's Party of Canada, like you 0.93

00:26:36.860 said, it's a little bit maybe a socialist name.

00:26:38.860 I said, you know, nobody will believe that Maxine Bernie is a socialist.

00:26:43.860 But that being said, we choose that name because we are working for the people.

00:26:49.860 And that's important.

00:26:50.860 That's the foundation of our party.

00:26:52.860 So I think that people are ready for a big change.

00:26:57.860 They're ready in Quebec.

00:26:59.860 They did the change with the CAC government, the Coalition Avenir Québec.

00:27:04.860 They did that in New Brunswick.

00:27:06.860 They are very small parties that receive a lot of votes.

00:27:09.860 So I think we can have a lot of support.

00:27:12.860 And we just have to work hard.

00:27:14.860 You are a grassroots party.

00:27:16.860 And I get that.

00:27:17.860 Your support's going to come from the average people, not from the elites.

00:27:20.860 But at the same time, you don't seem to have any support from your caucus colleagues

00:27:24.860 or former caucus colleagues, none of the provincial Conservative Party leaders.

00:27:29.860 Do you think that that sends a message to people that you're an army of one?

00:27:34.860 No.

00:27:35.860 Well, first of all, yes, I don't have any support from my ex-Conservative colleagues.

00:27:42.860 And I had only six of them who supported me during the leadership.

00:27:45.860 So I'm not surprised.

00:27:46.860 And I'm not spending any energy to have their support.

00:27:50.860 I'm too busy to work with the membership of our party.

00:27:53.860 We have right now 25,000 funding members.

00:27:57.860 25,000.

00:27:58.860 The Green Party, they had about 20,000 members, but they are there for the last 35 years.

00:28:04.860 So after three weeks, 25,000 funding members?

00:28:08.860 That's something.

00:28:09.860 The Conservative Party of Canada are having 100,000 members.

00:28:12.860 So it's a lot.

00:28:14.860 And we are building on that.

00:28:16.860 So I'm not, I don't try to have their support.

00:28:19.860 And I don't have their support in the House.

00:28:21.860 And not only in the House, but outside the House of Commons, we have a lot of support.

00:28:26.860 And I'm saying to people, oh, some journalists said, Maxime, you are kind of a populist politician.

00:28:32.860 I said, yeah, you can call me like that, but I'm a smart populist politician.

00:28:38.860 Because I'm speaking to the intelligence of Canadians.

00:28:40.860 I'm not speaking to their emotions.

00:28:42.860 That's a difference with other populist politicians.

00:28:45.860 I'm speaking to their intelligence with bold reform, serious reform.

00:28:49.860 And I think people like that.

00:28:51.860 So with that, with the ideas, and nobody can stop an idea when it's the right idea.

00:28:57.860 And what do we want to do?

00:28:58.860 We want to be sure that all our reforms that maybe are not popular today.

00:29:02.860 When I'm speaking about, I don't know, health care, I said we must stop to transfer money.

00:29:12.860 The federal government must stop to transfer money to provinces for health care.

00:29:15.860 And we must lower our taxes at the federal level and lend them tax for their own responsibility.

00:29:20.860 That may be not popular right now.

00:29:23.860 Maybe we don't have 50 percent of the population behind that idea.

00:29:27.860 But my goal and my motivation, it is the right thing to do.

00:29:32.860 We're the only country after Cuba and China that you cannot spend your own money for your own health insurance.

00:29:42.860 So all the other countries in Europe, they have both systems, the private system and the public system.

00:29:48.860 But they have universal coverage.

00:29:50.860 I'm not speaking about the U.S., it's different.

00:29:52.860 But we want something like that.

00:29:54.860 We want something more efficient.

00:29:55.860 So it may be not popular at 51 percent with the population right now.

00:30:00.860 But for the other parties, like I said, they are looking at poll.

00:30:04.860 But for me, I think I know that it's the best policy for this country, for the population.

00:30:08.860 They will have the choice.

00:30:09.860 They will be able.

00:30:10.860 They will have a universal coverage.

00:30:12.860 So my challenge is to speak about it and having more support.

00:30:15.860 That's what I like in politics.

00:30:17.860 If I have only 10 percent of the population on my side, okay, good.

00:30:20.860 I'm going to work harder to have more support.

00:30:23.860 And that's a great motivation.

00:30:25.860 Let's talk very briefly, if we can, about freedom.

00:30:29.860 Personal freedom is huge.

00:30:30.860 We've talked about it on the economic side.

00:30:32.860 You've also been very vocal on free speech in a way that I think we very much need politicians to take the issue up.

00:30:40.860 I mean, Doug Ford in Ontario has put a policy forward that would basically require universities to protect free speech because they're getting public money.

00:30:48.860 Where do you think the federal government's role is and a federal party's role is in making sure that free speech isn't hindered?

00:30:57.860 We have a role in federal jurisdiction.

00:31:00.860 I don't want to interfere in provincial jurisdiction.

00:31:03.860 That's part of our platform, respect for respect to taxpayers and respect the constitution.

00:31:07.860 So what Doug Ford is doing, that's the solution.

00:31:10.860 I cannot impose something on campus because it's a provincial jurisdiction.

00:31:15.860 And I'm 100 percent on this side about that.

00:31:19.860 But at the federal government, under our jurisdiction, we need to show that we are promoting freedom of speech.

00:31:28.860 We are promoting that.

00:31:29.860 But if there's a conflict in another jurisdiction, in one of our responsibilities, we must act.

00:31:36.860 But right now, the challenge is more at the university level all across the country.

00:31:41.860 So it's more a provincial jurisdiction like Doug Ford.

00:31:44.860 And the provinces, they can put forward the solution.

00:31:48.860 So what I can do at the federal level is just to incitate and ask provincial government to do that and to act like that and to do like the Ontario government.

00:31:57.860 We don't need to interfere at the federal level to be sure to have that on campus.

00:32:03.860 And I prefer to respect the constitution and to encourage other provincial government to do the same like they did in Ontario.

00:32:10.860 Do you think we need more areas in government where the federal level is saying we're going to just walk back and let provinces handle that?

00:32:17.860 Because you've talked about it with health care, which is supposed to be provincial jurisdiction anyway, but the federal government has pushed it.

00:32:24.860 To buy votes.

00:32:25.860 Yeah, very much so.

00:32:26.860 But are there other areas where you think the federal government is involved that it shouldn't be right now?

00:32:30.860 For sure.

00:32:31.860 For sure.

00:32:32.860 The health care, the equalization formula, you know, the federal government is giving a lot of money to provinces.

00:32:42.860 And all the social transfer.

00:32:44.860 The federal government is taxing Canadians.

00:32:46.860 And after that, we transfer that to provinces.

00:32:49.860 We have a lot of, I think it's about $20 billion that the federal government is transferring to provinces for social and social transfer.

00:32:59.860 But it's a provincial jurisdiction.

00:33:01.860 So my position on that is just lower tax at the federal level, less provinces taxes.

00:33:06.860 But the opposition would say, oh, Maxime, a tax dollar in Ontario, a tax point in Ontario, it isn't the same one that a tax point in New Brunswick.

00:33:16.860 Because there are more rich people in Ontario and less a little bit in New Brunswick.

00:33:20.860 So I'm saying they're right.

00:33:21.860 We're going to stop the transferring social transfer money and health care money.

00:33:26.860 But we have the equalization formula.

00:33:28.860 We'll use the equalization formula to give a little bit more to a poor province for that province to be able to offer the same kind of services.

00:33:36.860 That's in line.

00:33:37.860 But right now what I'm saying that we have the equalization formula, but the formula is unfair.

00:33:42.860 Only six or seven economists know the formula.

00:33:45.860 So like in Quebec, you don't put the hydroelectricity part of the formula, but all the fossil energy, the petroleum and oil and gas, it's part of the formula.

00:33:57.860 So it's not fair.

00:33:58.860 You must change a formula, having a formula that will be respect all provinces.

00:34:03.860 And after that, using that formula to be able to give money to provinces that they need.

00:34:08.860 But you don't need to tax every Canadians and giving a big social transfer to every provinces.

00:34:14.860 So that would change.

00:34:16.860 Maxime Bernier, leader of the People's Party of Canada.

00:34:19.860 Thank you very much for your time.

00:34:20.860 Merci.

00:34:21.860 Thank you very much.

00:34:22.860 Merci beaucoup.

Juno News - October 31, 2018

EXCLUSIVE： Andrew Lawton sits down with Maxime Bernier

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