Juno News - Exposing Canada's drug and crime crisis (feat. Aaron Gunn)

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:05.640 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:11.000 Welcome everyone, this is the Andrew Lawton Show here on True North,

00:00:15.140 Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show, first show of June.

00:00:18.660 So the summer months are upon us here.

00:00:21.260 It is Friday, June 2nd, and as you know, we always try in the final show of the week

00:00:26.900 to do things a bit differently.

00:00:28.120 We get to delve in depth on some of the big topics of the day

00:00:31.500 with some of the big thinkers of the day.

00:00:34.400 And the one I wanted to focus on today is Aaron Gunn,

00:00:38.240 who has been on the show before, but he's just released a fantastic,

00:00:42.640 and I would even say explosive documentary called Canada is Dying,

00:00:48.080 which looks largely at the drug crisis that is overwhelming cities across this country,

00:00:54.180 communities across this country,

00:00:56.020 and has become one that's been put, I think, pretty squarely in focus

00:00:59.140 by some political leaders now, with Danielle Smith in Alberta,

00:01:03.040 Pierre Polyev in the federal realm here.

00:01:06.380 Let's first take a look at the trailer.

00:01:08.460 We begin with breaking news tonight.

00:01:10.980 Police say a man stabbed and assaulted at least four people.

00:01:14.440 Video of the incident shows the woman pushed onto the track. 1.00

00:01:17.640 Police say the victim was hit in the head with a large pole.

00:01:20.900 Security footage captures a drug-fueled rage in Nanaimo.

00:01:23.840 The police got him, and the cop said,

00:01:25.840 he'll be out just after he goes to court in the morning after breakfast.

00:01:28.700 I was just seeing familiar faces in the criminal justice system,

00:01:33.860 and frustrating aspect was they were continually being released.

00:01:39.060 I don't understand how our justice system can allow him to be out walking the streets.

00:01:44.380 My son should never have been murdered.

00:01:46.580 That is the trailer for Canada is Dying,

00:01:49.520 well over half a million views,

00:01:51.560 and it's keeping on climbing.

00:01:53.860 Aaron Gunn joins me now.

00:01:55.500 Aaron, good to talk to you.

00:01:56.340 Thanks very much, and congratulations on the release.

00:01:59.700 Well, thank you for having me, Andrew,

00:02:01.140 and thank you for the congratulations.

00:02:02.780 It's been a lot of sweat and tears over the past couple of weeks and months

00:02:07.260 to get this out, but it's doing well, so we're grateful.

00:02:10.980 Why did you set out to tell this story?

00:02:14.920 Well, actually, if we roll back the clock a little bit,

00:02:17.160 it started with another documentary I did called Vancouver is Dying,

00:02:20.080 and the reason I went and set out to make that particular documentary

00:02:24.260 was living in BC, coastal BC for the past 20 years.

00:02:27.820 I just saw the exact same policies being implemented

00:02:30.480 and increasingly worse results, whether that's overdose deaths,

00:02:34.700 whether that's homelessness, whether it's just general degeneracy

00:02:37.820 and decay in our city streets,

00:02:39.620 and all we heard from politicians and the media

00:02:42.660 was that we needed more of the same,

00:02:44.620 and I thought, this doesn't seem to add up, so let's investigate it.

00:02:48.060 We did that in Vancouver.

00:02:49.400 It blew up, and then what happened after Vancouver is Dying

00:02:53.480 with such a success is people reached out to me from across the country,

00:02:56.660 and they were saying, you know, it's not just Vancouver.

00:02:59.460 Come to Kelowna.

00:03:00.260 Come to Nanaimo.

00:03:01.620 You have to come to London, Ontario, where you are, obviously,

00:03:05.760 or Toronto or Ottawa or Calgary or Edmonton or Lethbridge,

00:03:08.840 so it became quite clear that even if Vancouver was kind of the epicenter

00:03:13.480 of the crisis, all of the issues we investigated in Vancouver's dying

00:03:19.000 was actually quite a bit more widespread,

00:03:21.260 and we wanted to dig a little bit deeper to see what we would find,

00:03:24.560 and we found out quite a bit.

00:03:26.860 Is your central thesis or observation that this is just a universal national problem,

00:03:34.280 or in the communities where you see this happening,

00:03:37.860 are there kind of triggers that have caused it to be an issue

00:03:40.860 in those communities specifically?

00:03:44.980 Well, I would say the thesis of the documentary is that there are certain

00:03:50.360 problems being driven by the federal government

00:03:53.380 that is exacerbating the situation everywhere,

00:03:59.320 and then there are local or provincial factors that are making it specifically bad

00:04:04.360 in certain places.

00:04:06.260 So, for example, we look at, you know, the whole point of the documentary

00:04:10.540 is I think to connect the dots between this addictions crisis,

00:04:14.360 this increase in surge in violent crime, including random stranger attacks,

00:04:19.300 the decriminalization of drugs in BC, the provision of a so-called safe supply,

00:04:24.080 and trying to connect increases in homelessness.

00:04:26.960 So we're trying to connect all those dots together.

00:04:28.820 For example, the national level, though, like the criminal justice,

00:04:32.620 the revolving door justice system that we see the catcher on these policies,

00:04:36.360 those are being driven very specifically by bills like C-5,

00:04:40.880 like bills like C-75, which we jump into,

00:04:43.500 and this ideological push by the Trudeau government,

00:04:46.280 you know, that doesn't seem, that doesn't really accept the concept

00:04:50.100 of individual responsibility for these violent crimes,

00:04:52.700 but it's some kind of, you know, societal ills that we're all guilty of,

00:04:56.840 and we just need to be releasing these people as quickly as possible back into our streets,

00:05:01.380 how that's interwoven through our judicial system.

00:05:03.800 So there's, the criminal justice piece is very, I think, national in nature,

00:05:09.180 and then when it comes to things like the destigmatization,

00:05:14.360 normalization, and even enabling of hard drug use,

00:05:17.780 I think that gets very provincial specific, and in some cases, even city specific.

00:05:23.200 You know, it used to be that you'd have these two camps on the drug issue,

00:05:28.180 I mean, in Vancouver, literal camps, but I meant more philosophical camps,

00:05:31.920 where on one side, you have the tough on crime,

00:05:34.520 let's treat this as a criminal issue, drug trafficking, drug use side,

00:05:38.360 and on the other side, you say, no, no, no, it's not a crime,

00:05:41.300 it's a mental illness, we need to treat it. 0.99

00:05:43.320 I find there's increasingly a third category,

00:05:46.300 which says it's just a choice.

00:05:49.180 I mean, it's just a life choice.

00:05:50.780 We just have to normalize it.

00:05:52.600 We should offer safe supply and not push it into treatment.

00:05:56.580 We should eliminate criminal sanctions and not require treatment.

00:06:00.060 And are you seeing that side gain steam in B.C. or anywhere else?

00:06:06.940 I mean, I feel like, I mean, it's interesting what's happening in British Columbia.

00:06:13.440 I do feel there's a blowback coming,

00:06:14.980 so I guess it depends what you mean by gaining steam,

00:06:17.000 maybe in the policy world to a certain extent.

00:06:20.180 But, I mean, what's been happening in B.C.,

00:06:22.760 I think people are starting to wake up to it.

00:06:24.440 You have a poll that came out,

00:06:26.480 over 40% of people that live in Greater Vancouver

00:06:30.200 fear for their public safety on a daily basis.

00:06:33.480 I mean, that is an incredible,

00:06:35.560 that is a poll that you would expect to see out of a war zone,

00:06:38.740 out of eastern Ukraine or something like that.

00:06:42.660 I mean, it is shocking numbers.

00:06:44.600 And that has been, you know,

00:06:46.180 the result of an increase in violent crime of 32% since 2015.

00:06:49.460 And just the, you know,

00:06:51.800 the streets that you see in downtown Vancouver,

00:06:53.580 or even the suburbs like Surrey or Burnaby,

00:06:55.940 really are quite shocking to people and disturbing.

00:06:59.180 So I think that there's blowback coming.

00:07:03.140 You know, support for decriminalization is not high.

00:07:06.300 And, yeah, I think we're going to see the electoral consequences of that

00:07:10.740 probably in elections of the future.

00:07:13.300 The political power on this issue is incredibly significant.

00:07:18.140 I mean, one part that jumps out in the documentary,

00:07:20.460 you sit down with a pharmacist.

00:07:22.720 I mean, not a politician, not a physician,

00:07:25.180 but a pharmacist, which is an important role,

00:07:27.160 who didn't even want her face or name shown

00:07:30.700 because of the contention around these issues.

00:07:33.780 Explain that a little bit.

00:07:34.760 Why is there so much trepidation

00:07:36.820 in people being able to speak about these problems?

00:07:42.420 Well, a lot of, some of it just comes down to money.

00:07:45.580 So if we back up a little bit, Andrew,

00:07:49.420 I apologize if I'm getting in front of your questions here.

00:07:52.480 The Safe Supply Program that that pharmacist was talking about,

00:07:56.180 how she's basically handing out

00:07:57.840 1,008 milligram hydromorphone pills every single day.

00:08:02.500 This is her incredibly powerful and dangerous opioids,

00:08:06.960 basically make Oxycontin look like candy.

00:08:10.160 And she's handing out 1,000.

00:08:11.920 This is just one pharmacist at one pharmacy in British Columbia

00:08:14.740 is handing out 1,000 of these pills

00:08:16.880 to people who aren't in pain.

00:08:19.200 This is just supposed to be some fantasy land

00:08:23.240 fentanyl replacement theory.

00:08:25.720 And this program is being driven entirely

00:08:29.680 by the federal government.

00:08:31.560 And you have got doctors that basically apply for grants,

00:08:34.580 and these grants come directly from the feds,

00:08:36.860 from Health Canada.

00:08:37.700 And even though, obviously,

00:08:39.540 health care is traditionally a provincial responsibility.

00:08:42.140 So for some of these doctors,

00:08:43.960 for some of these addiction clinics,

00:08:45.160 for some of these pharmacies,

00:08:46.180 there's a lot of money at play here.

00:08:48.400 And obviously, they don't like anyone rocking the boat.

00:08:51.620 London was another example of a city that we visited

00:08:54.800 and people that we talked to.

00:08:56.140 I mean, I haven't heard,

00:08:57.820 you should maybe tell me, Andrew,

00:08:59.360 because you would know better,

00:09:00.180 but I haven't heard the provincial government

00:09:01.600 in Ontario talking a lot about safe supplier,

00:09:04.080 the need to push it,

00:09:04.860 like they do in British Columbia.

00:09:05.960 And yet it's still happening in the province of Ontario,

00:09:08.940 in cities like London,

00:09:10.280 much in the same way it's happening in BC.

00:09:12.080 And that's because that money and those programs

00:09:14.360 are actually being driven by the feds,

00:09:16.640 driven by Health Canada,

00:09:17.980 and driven by Trudeau's cabinet.

00:09:20.440 Yeah, and I should just say as well,

00:09:22.520 I mean, the idea that we're talking about safe supply

00:09:24.800 as being the norm in so many cities is bizarre

00:09:29.180 if you look at how this issue has morphed.

00:09:31.160 Because I remember when supervised injection sites,

00:09:34.480 safe injection sites were in and of themselves

00:09:37.080 seen as quite radical.

00:09:38.480 And there, a lot of the activists said,

00:09:40.460 well, no, I mean, they have the drugs themselves,

00:09:42.340 we're just supplying a clean needle.

00:09:44.260 And it's amazing how quickly that changed

00:09:46.960 to we're going to provide the drugs themselves.

00:09:50.240 Yeah, I mean, on so many issues these days,

00:09:54.560 the slippery slope is incredibly steep.

00:09:58.520 And yeah, it's the ideology of harm reduction,

00:10:01.880 as you alluded to earlier,

00:10:03.520 kind of this ideological belief

00:10:07.060 that choosing to do hard drugs like fentanyl

00:10:11.040 and crystal meth is a respectable choice.

00:10:14.620 And we should simply try to make that respectable choice

00:10:18.400 as safe for these individuals as possible

00:10:21.100 instead of, and in many ways,

00:10:23.960 really entrenching and furthering the sense of denial

00:10:29.060 that exists in many of these individuals' heads

00:10:31.400 that they have a problem.

00:10:32.520 Even when they're stumbling around

00:10:34.680 the downtown cores of our major cities like zombies,

00:10:40.560 a lot of them are very much in denial

00:10:42.700 that they have addiction,

00:10:43.540 that they have a problem.

00:10:45.420 And these kinds of programs

00:10:46.740 and this kind of ideology

00:10:48.180 just, I think, makes it so much more difficult

00:10:50.820 for people to wake up to the fact

00:10:52.760 that this is not a way to live

00:10:54.560 and you need help

00:10:55.620 and you need to get into treatment

00:10:57.220 and you need to get into recovery

00:10:58.520 and you need to become a contributing member

00:11:01.540 of society once again.

00:11:04.740 How was it for you talking to people

00:11:06.760 who have dealt with addiction,

00:11:08.460 people who have lived on the streets?

00:11:10.700 I mean, you did, I think,

00:11:11.900 a very respectful job of having those conversations

00:11:15.000 and I was just wondering,

00:11:16.380 first off, I mean,

00:11:17.020 what were some of the big takeaways for you?

00:11:18.740 But how was it sitting down with these people?

00:11:20.420 Because I think oftentimes

00:11:21.340 they're very patronized by the policy approaches

00:11:26.060 and they're spoken about in ways

00:11:27.820 as though they don't have the autonomy

00:11:30.260 and the maturity

00:11:31.060 that I think you brought out of them

00:11:32.980 in your discussions.

00:11:33.720 Yeah, so you're talking about the individual

00:11:37.180 still suffering from addiction?

00:11:38.740 Well, both, both.

00:11:39.760 I mean, people that were in recovery

00:11:41.660 and even people that were, you know,

00:11:43.240 you talked to just on the streets.

00:11:45.640 Yeah, so first, the people that are in recovery

00:11:47.520 who have got it clean,

00:11:48.940 from them, the response has been over.

00:11:51.840 Like that first, especially in Vancouver is dying,

00:11:54.200 I was a little bit nervous

00:11:55.580 going up to chat with them

00:11:56.680 and the response was just overwhelmingly positive.

00:11:59.580 They said, honestly, unanimously,

00:12:03.760 that if they were in a situation

00:12:05.420 when they were still on the streets,

00:12:06.800 if they were given free drugs by the government,

00:12:09.340 if they were given a free hotel room by the government,

00:12:12.060 that they would probably be dead

00:12:14.060 on the floor of that hotel room

00:12:15.660 with the drugs beside them.

00:12:18.940 And that the path forward

00:12:22.260 needs to be through treatment,

00:12:23.880 through education

00:12:24.660 and getting people clean.

00:12:27.020 And they just laugh at the fact

00:12:28.480 when you look at some of these, you know,

00:12:29.760 talking points put out by the government

00:12:31.060 that we need to de-stigmatize hard drug use

00:12:33.980 in order to save lives.

00:12:35.660 As far as the people on the street,

00:12:37.960 still, there has always been a really mixed bag.

00:12:41.700 Because I think you get people

00:12:42.460 in different stages of their addiction.

00:12:44.840 So some people are full on denial

00:12:47.020 that they even have a problem.

00:12:49.160 You see them, you know,

00:12:50.900 half alive on the side of a city street,

00:12:54.120 whether it's Kelowna and IMO, Vancouver, Calgary,

00:12:56.240 or whatever,

00:12:56.680 who say, I don't have a problem.

00:12:58.480 I don't know.

00:12:59.120 You're living your life.

00:12:59.920 I'm living mine.

00:13:00.820 And then you get others

00:13:01.800 who are very open and honest

00:13:04.780 and say they have,

00:13:05.740 they're addicted to fentanyl

00:13:07.100 and they struggle with it

00:13:08.220 and they maybe tried treatment before,

00:13:10.220 but they just weren't able to do it.

00:13:12.940 And they seem very worn out.

00:13:16.520 But out of that phase of denial

00:13:19.240 and unfortunately,

00:13:21.360 I think in a phase

00:13:22.240 where they really need our help as a society

00:13:25.680 to pull them back out of that hole

00:13:27.640 and get them to where they want to be.

00:13:31.760 One of the biggest arguments

00:13:33.480 I see in favor of the permissive regime,

00:13:36.980 if I can call it that,

00:13:37.960 and I include in that safe supply,

00:13:40.220 supervised injection sites,

00:13:41.400 all of that,

00:13:41.900 is that the criminal approach didn't work.

00:13:44.640 The so-called war on drugs didn't work

00:13:46.740 and it led us to where we are now.

00:13:48.480 And I'm wondering

00:13:49.500 what your argument to that is

00:13:50.960 because certainly I would say

00:13:52.700 it didn't do what people wanted it to do.

00:13:55.720 But at the same times,

00:13:56.720 I think the problems in the last five years

00:13:59.140 have gotten so much more worse

00:14:01.280 or at the very least,

00:14:02.420 so much more visible

00:14:04.100 than they were before then.

00:14:07.840 Yeah.

00:14:08.380 So I think a lot of the pro-drug advocates

00:14:12.020 are trying to create a false binary 0.99

00:14:14.900 based on political debates

00:14:17.120 from the 1990s

00:14:18.060 that were before my time

00:14:19.120 of being politically aware.

00:14:21.300 The just say no era of drug policy, right?

00:14:24.180 Yeah.

00:14:24.600 So it's,

00:14:27.480 I mean, no one's talking about,

00:14:30.600 no one's seriously talking about

00:14:32.160 treating addicts who are addicted to drugs

00:14:35.080 as criminals,

00:14:36.300 as some kind of hardened criminal.

00:14:37.340 But it's about whether we as a society say

00:14:41.460 being addicted to drugs

00:14:44.720 to the point where you are unable

00:14:46.180 to look after yourself,

00:14:47.280 let alone anybody else,

00:14:48.800 let alone being a productive member of society,

00:14:50.940 is something that should be socially acceptable.

00:14:55.460 That's not to say that we need to punish people.

00:14:57.820 It actually says the opposite,

00:14:58.840 that we need to help them

00:14:59.660 and get them out of there.

00:15:00.320 But it's about what are we willing to accept?

00:15:02.520 What are we willing to tolerate?

00:15:03.600 And so they try to create this false binary 1.00

00:15:07.660 because I think it's useful for them politically.

00:15:10.360 But it's,

00:15:11.500 I mean, no one's having that debate anymore.

00:15:13.080 It's not the 1990s.

00:15:15.400 And so I think,

00:15:17.880 and I think to your point about

00:15:20.020 it's gotten so much worse.

00:15:23.420 I think that,

00:15:24.900 you know,

00:15:27.020 when you're in a situation

00:15:27.940 where you're using certain substances

00:15:29.380 that have the power to wreak

00:15:31.320 so much social and economic chaos

00:15:35.000 on a city,

00:15:37.100 on a society,

00:15:37.700 on a province,

00:15:38.260 on a country,

00:15:39.340 I mean,

00:15:40.380 they just can't,

00:15:41.240 they can't,

00:15:42.100 they can't just be this free-for-all

00:15:43.400 because the natural question ends up

00:15:45.180 who's dealing with the consequences,

00:15:46.580 who's paying for all the police bills,

00:15:47.920 who's paying for the ambulance bills,

00:15:49.300 who's paying for the social welfare bills,

00:15:51.960 and all the other ills,

00:15:54.020 who's paying for the criminal justice system,

00:15:58.080 who's looking after the widow of someone

00:16:01.640 whose husband was brutally stabbed

00:16:04.540 in broad daylight

00:16:05.220 by someone who was going through drug psychosis

00:16:07.440 triggered by crystal meth.

00:16:09.040 So there's all these massive externalities,

00:16:11.360 I think,

00:16:12.080 that are being driven by the addictions crisis.

00:16:14.620 And to ignore that,

00:16:16.080 well, you can't ignore it,

00:16:16.900 and you get what British Columbia has turned into

00:16:19.020 and what much of Canada has turned into

00:16:20.360 over the past 20 years.

00:16:22.120 Yeah, and it does seem like

00:16:24.520 there has been a bit of regret,

00:16:27.500 maybe is the right word,

00:16:29.140 on some people that have been a part

00:16:31.360 of pushing this evolution in policy.

00:16:33.740 I mean, one example you interview

00:16:35.620 is a physician from my city of London, Ontario,

00:16:38.820 Sharon Koivu,

00:16:39.640 who has, it seems like,

00:16:41.300 gone perhaps not as far as some people,

00:16:43.220 but she's pulled back a little bit.

00:16:46.200 Yeah, and the mayor of Nanaimo as well,

00:16:48.260 who was an NDP MLA for many years.

00:16:50.320 Because I think the,

00:16:53.300 obviously we want to be compassionate.

00:16:55.080 The idea of harm reduction,

00:16:57.780 which actually was born under the AIDS epidemic,

00:17:01.260 was, you know,

00:17:02.540 to try to keep people alive

00:17:04.240 and decrease harm in society to individuals

00:17:08.260 while we're trying to get them help.

00:17:09.880 The problem is the harm reduction,

00:17:12.240 the harm reduction policies

00:17:14.800 that have been implemented

00:17:15.640 have been escalated to such a point

00:17:17.100 where it's quite obvious to me

00:17:19.120 they're actually creating more harm.

00:17:21.180 So, for example, with the safe supply,

00:17:23.380 which to me, by the way,

00:17:24.280 is a complete oxymoron

00:17:26.120 and is born out of this fallacy

00:17:27.460 that there's some kind of poison drug crisis

00:17:30.180 when in reality,

00:17:31.300 the drugs are the poison.

00:17:33.000 I mean, fentanyl,

00:17:33.820 fentanyl is not being poisoned.

00:17:35.200 Fentanyl is a poison.

00:17:36.920 And, you know,

00:17:38.100 me or you could take,

00:17:39.500 you know, pure fentanyl

00:17:41.240 out of a pharmacy

00:17:42.780 and be dead pretty quickly.

00:17:44.760 So, the safe supply program,

00:17:47.860 though, that they're flooding the market

00:17:49.300 with these drugs.

00:17:50.420 But these drugs are then being diverted

00:17:52.100 and being resold on the black market

00:17:54.420 and traded for fentanyl

00:17:55.700 and other things

00:17:56.220 that the addicts actually want.

00:17:57.260 And then these hydromorphone pills

00:17:58.960 are now being resold

00:18:00.580 on college campuses,

00:18:02.560 on university campuses,

00:18:03.720 at high schools,

00:18:05.080 to young kids

00:18:06.120 and starting and creating

00:18:07.380 the next generation of addicts,

00:18:09.120 creating more harm down the road.

00:18:11.960 A perfect example of this,

00:18:13.240 we talked to an addictions counsellor,

00:18:15.100 Andrew in,

00:18:17.380 well, it was anonymous,

00:18:18.280 so I'll just say a city

00:18:18.880 in British Columbia.

00:18:20.320 And she said two years ago,

00:18:22.780 about 90% of the people,

00:18:24.980 95% of the people

00:18:26.140 that came in

00:18:26.720 were addicted to fentanyl,

00:18:27.880 the patients

00:18:28.380 that were walking

00:18:29.180 into the addictions clinic

00:18:30.140 who needed help

00:18:31.020 and were trying

00:18:31.520 to get off the addiction.

00:18:33.500 The rest was a remainder

00:18:34.500 of some benzos

00:18:36.020 or Oxycontin still

00:18:38.080 or things like that.

00:18:39.740 So, in the last six months,

00:18:40.920 50% of the people

00:18:42.340 that have walked

00:18:42.780 through that door

00:18:43.360 are addicted to hydromorphone,

00:18:46.540 which is the drug

00:18:47.420 that the government

00:18:48.040 is handing out.

00:18:49.300 So, we are literally creating

00:18:50.640 the next generation of addicts.

00:18:53.240 And to me,

00:18:53.760 that's not harm reduction,

00:18:54.840 that's harm creation.

00:18:55.980 And clearly,

00:18:56.940 the policy hasn't been working.

00:18:58.700 And I think the problem

00:18:59.460 is a lot of these politicians

00:19:00.960 have become so wedded

00:19:02.620 to this,

00:19:03.500 they've staked their reputation

00:19:04.700 on this idea,

00:19:05.440 they're going to be

00:19:05.840 very reluctant

00:19:06.480 to walk it back,

00:19:07.800 unfortunately.

00:19:08.300 In the political realm,

00:19:11.060 is this strictly

00:19:12.060 a left-right issue?

00:19:13.700 Because it certainly

00:19:14.560 looks like one,

00:19:15.700 whereas the people

00:19:16.460 that are standing up

00:19:17.940 and saying Canada is dying

00:19:19.480 are people that are

00:19:20.920 on the right,

00:19:21.680 and then you get people

00:19:22.340 like Justin Trudeau

00:19:23.360 who say it's offensive

00:19:24.620 to say that Canada is broken

00:19:26.060 and we can't acknowledge

00:19:27.220 there's a problem.

00:19:28.060 But I'm wondering

00:19:28.700 if when you delve down

00:19:30.120 to the local level

00:19:31.060 or even the provincial level,

00:19:32.320 if you see a little bit

00:19:33.140 more nuance

00:19:33.700 on both sides of this.

00:19:34.860 I mean,

00:19:38.880 I think,

00:19:39.640 well,

00:19:40.080 of our political leadership

00:19:42.060 right now,

00:19:42.820 it certainly seems

00:19:43.560 to be a left-right issue,

00:19:44.520 but I think among Canadians

00:19:45.460 it is decidedly

00:19:46.520 not a left-right issue.

00:19:47.680 I mean,

00:19:48.460 you know,

00:19:49.860 I'm pretty openly

00:19:50.820 conservative,

00:19:53.360 but...

00:19:53.760 And I should say,

00:19:54.520 Pierre Paulievre

00:19:55.020 gave this film

00:19:56.080 quite an endorsement

00:19:57.720 on Twitter.

00:19:58.320 We have the tweet up there.

00:19:59.700 So the leader

00:20:00.080 of the Conservatives

00:20:00.740 obviously sees

00:20:02.140 what you're saying here

00:20:03.200 and agrees with it.

00:20:03.980 But yeah,

00:20:04.700 so you're saying

00:20:05.320 on the local level

00:20:06.240 that isn't just a left-right.

00:20:08.580 Yeah,

00:20:08.900 like I,

00:20:09.320 for example,

00:20:10.280 with Vancouver's dying

00:20:11.180 and this documentary as well,

00:20:12.480 so many people

00:20:13.160 reach out to me

00:20:13.800 who said,

00:20:14.220 you know,

00:20:14.340 I actually don't agree

00:20:14.960 with you on almost anything,

00:20:16.440 but I agree with you

00:20:17.680 100% on what's going on

00:20:19.060 in Vancouver

00:20:19.860 or insert my home city here

00:20:21.960 that this isn't right.

00:20:24.100 This clearly hasn't been working

00:20:25.120 because to me,

00:20:26.120 the reason why

00:20:26.740 it's not a left-right issue

00:20:28.060 among the public

00:20:28.680 is because

00:20:29.240 the results are happening

00:20:30.880 in front of our eyes.

00:20:31.700 Like we've run the experiment

00:20:32.700 for the past 20 years.

00:20:33.780 If this is success,

00:20:34.700 I don't know what failure

00:20:35.580 looks like.

00:20:36.760 And I would also point out,

00:20:38.260 I'm traveling right now

00:20:39.200 filming the next documentary

00:20:40.280 in Europe

00:20:41.040 and I mean,

00:20:42.500 this is not,

00:20:43.700 this handing out

00:20:44.720 of free drugs

00:20:45.480 is not something

00:20:46.820 that people on the left

00:20:47.680 or the right

00:20:48.300 in the vast majority,

00:20:49.760 if not all of these countries,

00:20:50.800 would think

00:20:51.280 is a reasonable approach

00:20:52.680 or a smart idea.

00:20:53.560 I mean,

00:20:53.720 just the insanity

00:20:54.540 of this,

00:20:55.060 Andrew.

00:20:55.220 I mean,

00:20:55.960 the government

00:20:56.680 of British Columbia

00:20:57.560 is currently suing

00:20:59.580 Purdue Pharmaceuticals

00:21:01.720 for marketing Oxycontin

00:21:04.220 as safe

00:21:04.940 when it wasn't,

00:21:06.240 as non-addictive

00:21:07.240 when it wasn't,

00:21:08.340 and then flooding

00:21:09.180 the market,

00:21:09.920 flooding the streets

00:21:10.600 with this drug

00:21:11.300 which ended up

00:21:12.280 getting millions of people

00:21:14.200 addicted in North America

00:21:15.260 and leading to the deaths

00:21:16.120 of over 100,000 people.

00:21:18.160 Now,

00:21:18.500 what the British Columbian

00:21:19.500 government is doing

00:21:20.380 in conjunction

00:21:21.040 with Trudeau

00:21:22.420 is handing out

00:21:23.580 en masse opioids

00:21:25.680 that are even more powerful

00:21:26.980 than Oxycontin

00:21:27.780 and marketing them

00:21:28.520 as safe supply

00:21:29.340 and watching them

00:21:30.000 as they flood

00:21:30.500 into the streets

00:21:31.080 and get a whole new generation.

00:21:32.060 They're doing the exact same thing

00:21:33.440 that Purdue did

00:21:34.100 but worse

00:21:34.940 and they're suing Purdue for it

00:21:36.800 so I don't know

00:21:37.140 if they're going to sue

00:21:37.700 themselves next.

00:21:38.980 It's sad though

00:21:40.560 because there's obviously

00:21:41.300 a very real human cost

00:21:43.000 to this

00:21:43.360 and there's going to be

00:21:45.340 unfortunately

00:21:45.760 a lot more dead Canadians 1.00

00:21:48.640 as a result

00:21:49.680 of what the government

00:21:50.280 is doing.

00:21:51.380 Since you brought up Europe 0.80

00:21:52.880 I have to ask about that.

00:21:54.720 I mean,

00:21:54.960 is Canada

00:21:55.880 an outlier in this

00:21:57.980 or is Canada

00:21:58.640 following a model

00:21:59.700 that we see

00:22:00.420 somewhere else

00:22:01.220 in the world?

00:22:03.080 Canada is a 0.90

00:22:04.340 Canada is at the 0.99

00:22:05.960 vanguard of insanity

00:22:06.980 right now

00:22:07.480 when it comes

00:22:08.000 specifically

00:22:08.660 to the distribution

00:22:10.120 of opioids

00:22:10.980 and handing out

00:22:11.580 free drugs.

00:22:12.720 I mean,

00:22:13.540 the Oxycontin crisis

00:22:15.540 which I thought

00:22:16.820 everyone on the left

00:22:17.920 and right

00:22:18.340 kind of unanimously

00:22:19.220 agreed

00:22:19.900 Purdue was wrong

00:22:22.280 and it was a disaster

00:22:23.440 and we shouldn't have

00:22:24.540 handed out opioids

00:22:25.320 as freely

00:22:26.440 as we did

00:22:26.940 and it created

00:22:27.360 a huge generation

00:22:28.440 of addicts

00:22:29.060 and many of them

00:22:29.960 overdosed and died.

00:22:30.960 I thought that was

00:22:31.660 a consensus.

00:22:32.780 In Europe

00:22:33.260 they never had

00:22:33.820 the same problem

00:22:34.460 because they were

00:22:35.000 much more restrictive

00:22:36.200 with prescription drugs

00:22:39.360 than we are over here.

00:22:40.800 There's much less drug use

00:22:41.860 in general

00:22:42.340 in Europe

00:22:42.780 than there is

00:22:44.040 in North America

00:22:45.460 so I thought

00:22:46.800 we had learned

00:22:47.280 that lesson.

00:22:47.960 So they have

00:22:48.540 different

00:22:49.080 you know

00:22:50.520 there's harm reduction

00:22:51.640 there's certain

00:22:52.560 there's much

00:22:52.980 less of it over there

00:22:53.980 but there are

00:22:54.300 safe injection sites

00:22:55.240 and things like that

00:22:56.300 but the most insidious

00:22:58.120 part I think

00:22:58.700 about of what's

00:22:59.620 happening in Canada

00:23:00.280 right now

00:23:00.840 is this so-called

00:23:02.440 safe supply

00:23:03.160 is the distribution

00:23:04.020 of free drugs

00:23:04.740 and as far as

00:23:06.360 I can tell

00:23:06.820 or my research

00:23:07.400 has shown

00:23:08.520 that is not

00:23:09.480 happening anywhere.

00:23:10.300 We are

00:23:10.620 I mean

00:23:11.140 Canada's at the 0.92

00:23:12.320 forefront of that

00:23:13.500 and Vancouver

00:23:14.340 is leading the parade

00:23:16.100 so it's

00:23:16.620 it's

00:23:17.040 it's

00:23:18.540 certainly

00:23:19.080 I mean

00:23:19.460 we were just

00:23:19.900 we had lunch

00:23:20.540 with somebody

00:23:20.980 in Sweden

00:23:21.660 the other day

00:23:22.120 and they couldn't

00:23:22.540 even believe

00:23:23.200 the story

00:23:23.940 that we were

00:23:24.380 telling them

00:23:24.800 about what's

00:23:25.200 going on

00:23:25.640 in British Columbia

00:23:27.540 and I should

00:23:28.040 point out

00:23:28.400 by the way

00:23:28.720 the activists

00:23:29.260 that are pushing

00:23:29.780 these policies

00:23:30.480 don't want it

00:23:31.420 to stop

00:23:31.840 at you know

00:23:33.280 hydromorphone

00:23:34.080 and these powerful

00:23:35.420 opioids

00:23:35.760 they actually

00:23:36.240 want a safe

00:23:36.940 supply of fentanyl

00:23:39.040 a safe supply

00:23:40.320 of crack

00:23:40.960 a safe supply

00:23:41.780 of crystal meth

00:23:42.500 that is

00:23:43.320 that is where

00:23:44.040 they want to go

00:23:44.760 that is their

00:23:45.740 that is their

00:23:46.460 finish line

00:23:47.100 so hopefully

00:23:49.320 people start

00:23:50.080 waking up

00:23:50.480 to some of

00:23:51.140 these facts

00:23:51.580 one of the

00:23:53.540 things that has

00:23:54.260 always struck

00:23:55.380 me as quite

00:23:56.340 concerning

00:23:56.980 whenever I hear

00:23:57.640 stories about

00:23:58.280 how these

00:23:58.560 programs work

00:23:59.360 is that the

00:23:59.880 safeguards

00:24:01.220 really don't

00:24:02.540 exist to

00:24:03.440 prevent these

00:24:04.240 drugs from

00:24:04.880 going somewhere

00:24:06.240 other than to

00:24:07.000 the person

00:24:07.560 to whom

00:24:08.080 they're dispensed

00:24:08.600 so even if

00:24:09.580 we get on

00:24:10.020 board

00:24:10.320 with the idea

00:24:10.820 that yes

00:24:11.320 a person

00:24:11.800 with addiction

00:24:12.240 who comes

00:24:12.720 in who

00:24:13.520 needs you

00:24:14.280 know safe

00:24:14.680 supply we

00:24:15.240 can give

00:24:15.540 them a drug

00:24:15.920 and that

00:24:16.120 so even if

00:24:17.000 we accept

00:24:17.420 that there's

00:24:18.360 no guarantee

00:24:19.000 that won't

00:24:19.560 end up getting

00:24:20.320 sold to

00:24:21.660 someone else

00:24:22.600 so it must

00:24:23.740 be from what

00:24:24.840 you told me

00:24:25.420 what's in the

00:24:25.840 documentary and

00:24:26.520 what I've read

00:24:26.900 elsewhere that

00:24:27.560 that you've got

00:24:28.600 dealers that are

00:24:29.520 just deliberately

00:24:30.220 abusing this

00:24:31.260 process that are

00:24:32.220 just going through

00:24:33.160 and doing this

00:24:34.000 and I'm wondering

00:24:34.940 just how that

00:24:35.720 works is it that

00:24:36.480 you can just go

00:24:37.120 in anonymously

00:24:37.940 and there's no

00:24:38.480 sort of record

00:24:39.100 or tracking

00:24:39.760 of who the

00:24:40.720 patients are

00:24:41.380 in these

00:24:41.640 programs

00:24:42.120 so how the

00:24:44.440 program works

00:24:45.100 and what you

00:24:45.460 said is

00:24:45.880 it's very

00:24:47.140 common sense

00:24:47.820 Andrew and

00:24:48.320 there are other

00:24:48.840 countries that

00:24:49.440 have harm

00:24:51.160 reduction for

00:24:51.820 people that

00:24:52.440 they think

00:24:53.020 are just

00:24:54.300 either incapable

00:24:56.600 for getting

00:24:57.040 into treatment

00:24:57.500 which is a

00:24:57.940 controversial

00:24:58.440 kind of thing

00:25:00.040 to say

00:25:00.440 or not ready

00:25:01.620 or whatever

00:25:02.040 but all of

00:25:02.760 those countries

00:25:03.780 have safe

00:25:04.740 supply programs

00:25:05.560 where the drugs

00:25:06.140 have to be

00:25:06.660 witnessed

00:25:07.100 right there

00:25:07.700 by the

00:25:08.100 pharmacist

00:25:08.580 not walked

00:25:09.180 out with a

00:25:09.780 with a pill

00:25:10.480 bottle where it

00:25:11.020 can easily be

00:25:11.460 resold on a

00:25:12.100 black market

00:25:12.660 which is

00:25:13.020 yeah and again

00:25:13.520 stories of just

00:25:14.100 labels being

00:25:14.780 ripped off and

00:25:15.540 just like thrown

00:25:16.120 into the ditch

00:25:16.680 basically

00:25:17.140 yes it's the

00:25:17.860 pinnacle of

00:25:18.320 insanity

00:25:19.200 the people

00:25:20.480 walk out

00:25:20.960 I mean the

00:25:21.340 pharmacist just

00:25:21.980 says they

00:25:22.400 see people

00:25:23.320 walk out of

00:25:23.840 the pharmacy

00:25:24.360 hand the pill

00:25:25.320 bottles off to

00:25:26.080 somebody waiting

00:25:27.120 in a black

00:25:27.820 sedan gets a

00:25:28.760 pile of cash

00:25:29.560 for it and

00:25:29.980 walks away

00:25:30.480 and we talked

00:25:31.620 to the 16

00:25:32.780 year old girl

00:25:33.160 in high school

00:25:33.620 that says these

00:25:34.140 drugs are just

00:25:34.720 they take the

00:25:35.860 label off the

00:25:37.260 pill bottle

00:25:37.700 repackage the

00:25:38.640 pills in dime

00:25:39.580 bags or whatever

00:25:40.320 or sometimes

00:25:41.040 they're actually

00:25:41.400 used as a

00:25:41.880 precursor in

00:25:43.320 fentanyl

00:25:43.840 manufacturing which

00:25:45.080 is a whole

00:25:45.340 other side of

00:25:46.920 the story

00:25:47.360 but yeah

00:25:49.300 it's so the

00:25:50.820 process of how

00:25:51.540 it works

00:25:51.920 so it's

00:25:54.280 different for

00:25:54.760 each doctor

00:25:55.400 but basically

00:25:56.120 you walk into

00:25:56.920 one of these

00:25:57.500 clinics that's

00:25:58.140 being funded

00:25:58.620 by Health

00:25:59.580 Canada

00:26:00.000 and you say

00:26:01.360 I'm a

00:26:02.160 fentanyl

00:26:03.040 addict

00:26:03.420 I'm addicted

00:26:04.560 to fentanyl

00:26:05.220 and I need

00:26:05.820 my safe

00:26:06.660 supply

00:26:07.080 and some

00:26:09.160 of them

00:26:09.380 require initial

00:26:10.180 tests to say

00:26:11.300 that you have

00:26:11.640 fentanyl in your

00:26:12.160 system none of

00:26:12.880 them that I

00:26:13.700 know of require

00:26:14.320 ongoing tests

00:26:15.180 at all and

00:26:16.520 in fact the

00:26:18.000 pharmacist was

00:26:18.640 saying that a

00:26:19.460 lot of the

00:26:19.820 addicts in this

00:26:20.600 particular city

00:26:21.300 were getting

00:26:21.700 almost entitled

00:26:23.820 to it they

00:26:24.360 would say I

00:26:24.800 want where's my

00:26:25.620 safe supply and

00:26:26.720 it is a daily

00:26:27.520 dispensary so

00:26:28.260 you show up

00:26:28.720 every day to

00:26:30.340 get your

00:26:30.920 dispense of

00:26:32.200 hydromorphone

00:26:33.340 and most of

00:26:35.420 the addicts

00:26:36.020 either sell

00:26:37.280 all of it

00:26:37.840 or trade all

00:26:38.640 of it to get

00:26:39.260 the fentanyl

00:26:39.780 they actually

00:26:40.160 want some

00:26:40.640 of them might

00:26:40.920 take a couple

00:26:41.400 pills sell

00:26:41.980 the rest get

00:26:42.900 the fentanyl

00:26:43.440 that they

00:26:43.680 actually want

00:26:44.260 and when they

00:26:45.160 do use the

00:26:45.760 drug they're

00:26:47.000 not using it

00:26:47.520 as prescribed

00:26:48.060 they'll dissolve

00:26:49.840 it and inject

00:26:50.640 it which creates

00:26:51.260 all sorts of

00:26:51.720 other issues

00:26:52.260 and spinal

00:26:52.820 damage and all

00:26:53.540 sorts of other

00:26:54.040 possible things

00:26:55.220 so the program

00:26:56.420 is just leaving

00:26:57.160 a trail of

00:26:58.680 pain and tears

00:27:00.260 it's not helping

00:27:00.960 anyone it's

00:27:02.060 just enabling

00:27:02.700 this destructive

00:27:04.300 behavior and

00:27:05.180 most destructively

00:27:07.240 it's creating

00:27:07.860 this next

00:27:08.720 generation of

00:27:09.420 addicts by

00:27:09.900 fueling the

00:27:11.160 exact opioid

00:27:11.860 crisis we were

00:27:12.520 trying to move

00:27:13.520 away from

00:27:14.100 this is an

00:27:15.680 unpleasant question

00:27:16.640 to ask but I

00:27:17.340 have to ask it

00:27:18.060 anyway when you

00:27:18.840 describe these

00:27:20.160 pills making

00:27:20.860 their way from

00:27:21.500 the government

00:27:21.960 so-called safe

00:27:22.900 supply programs

00:27:24.300 to high schools

00:27:25.940 in you know

00:27:26.840 Kelowna or

00:27:27.580 Nanaimo or

00:27:28.180 whatever would

00:27:29.420 the government

00:27:30.240 call that a

00:27:31.540 win because it

00:27:32.580 means that it's

00:27:33.360 you know clean

00:27:34.060 government drugs

00:27:35.020 that are being

00:27:35.480 distributed and

00:27:36.180 not the you

00:27:37.140 know dirty

00:27:37.580 unsafe street

00:27:38.420 drugs would

00:27:38.840 they actually

00:27:39.300 say that's a

00:27:40.920 benefit in the

00:27:42.080 system even if

00:27:42.720 it's indirect

00:27:43.320 well what the

00:27:45.840 probably the most

00:27:46.700 disturbing thing

00:27:47.360 we found out

00:27:48.100 was this

00:27:49.400 pharmacist

00:27:50.780 told us that

00:27:52.740 when she sees

00:27:53.480 people walk in

00:27:54.420 she dispenses the

00:27:55.380 drugs they walk

00:27:56.080 out of the

00:27:56.380 pharmacy and

00:27:57.320 sell the drugs

00:27:58.040 literally in the

00:27:58.740 parking lot of

00:27:59.440 the pharmacy in

00:28:00.300 direct view of

00:28:01.680 where she's

00:28:02.060 standing I mean

00:28:02.800 this isn't this

00:28:03.420 isn't an

00:28:04.380 undercover operation

00:28:05.740 here it's in

00:28:07.880 plain sight she

00:28:09.040 will contact the

00:28:10.460 doctor who wrote

00:28:11.120 the prescription she

00:28:12.320 said there are

00:28:13.040 doctors who say

00:28:15.100 you know this

00:28:15.500 prescription is

00:28:16.040 clearly not being

00:28:16.740 used as intended

00:28:17.640 and will cancel

00:28:18.440 the prescription

00:28:19.260 but there are

00:28:21.420 other doctors that

00:28:22.520 she has contacted

00:28:23.320 and I saw the

00:28:23.940 text messages where

00:28:25.340 she says you know

00:28:26.480 so-and-so is not

00:28:27.600 using their

00:28:28.420 prescription they

00:28:29.080 are walking out

00:28:29.560 of the pharmacy

00:28:30.020 and reselling the

00:28:30.840 drug and the

00:28:32.060 doctor has said

00:28:32.960 well that's okay

00:28:34.300 at least somebody

00:28:35.380 somewhere is

00:28:36.540 getting a safe

00:28:37.200 supply and to

00:28:39.320 me that is that

00:28:40.080 is medical

00:28:40.460 malpractice for

00:28:41.480 what for one

00:28:42.040 thing I mean I

00:28:42.600 don't know how

00:28:42.900 that's not an

00:28:43.360 accessory to drug

00:28:44.620 trafficking at that

00:28:45.460 point but it's

00:28:47.200 so to your point

00:28:49.360 and there's been

00:28:50.120 actually also the

00:28:51.840 one of these kind

00:28:52.780 of left-wing

00:28:53.460 groups who's very

00:28:55.200 pro-harm

00:28:55.640 reduction

00:28:56.060 recognizes that

00:28:57.760 diversion is

00:28:58.440 happening which

00:28:59.000 is what this is

00:28:59.580 called and

00:29:00.740 believes that they

00:29:01.580 need to come up

00:29:02.160 with a new word

00:29:03.300 for it so they

00:29:03.940 can market it more

00:29:05.220 effectively to the

00:29:05.980 general population

00:29:06.840 to talk about the

00:29:07.840 virtues of as you

00:29:09.980 literally just pointed

00:29:10.840 out the safe

00:29:12.320 government supply of

00:29:14.360 opioids displacing the 1.00

00:29:16.360 the black market

00:29:17.240 supply so you know

00:29:20.220 I don't know who's

00:29:21.220 who's in favor of

00:29:21.960 that policy and

00:29:22.660 who's just who's

00:29:23.500 just oblivious to

00:29:24.320 it there's I mean

00:29:25.180 it's a fine line

00:29:25.920 between gross

00:29:26.980 incompetence and

00:29:27.800 maliciousness obviously

00:29:28.760 so it's sometimes

00:29:30.560 the results look the

00:29:31.480 same so I'm sure

00:29:32.200 there's a little bit

00:29:32.700 of both in this

00:29:35.200 and there's what's

00:29:35.960 been going so wrong

00:29:36.740 here lately

00:29:37.200 yeah and I've said

00:29:38.580 on my show in the

00:29:39.300 past this is

00:29:40.020 probably one of the

00:29:41.560 biggest issues

00:29:42.700 certainly that I can

00:29:43.640 recall where there

00:29:44.440 was such a divide

00:29:45.540 between what real

00:29:47.260 people think and

00:29:48.740 what real people

00:29:49.520 experience and what

00:29:50.600 the political elite

00:29:52.280 academic class are

00:29:54.020 trying to tell

00:29:54.860 people and I think

00:29:55.740 probably more than

00:29:56.420 any other issue I

00:29:57.380 mean you see some

00:29:57.980 other ones like you

00:29:59.100 know I think 0.93

00:29:59.400 transgender stuff you 1.00

00:30:00.500 know I think there's

00:30:00.980 a bit of a mismatch

00:30:01.780 between how ordinary

00:30:02.620 people approach it and

00:30:03.640 how politicians

00:30:04.760 approach it but

00:30:05.360 certainly on this one

00:30:06.280 because the people

00:30:07.080 that I you know have

00:30:07.960 on my Facebook feed

00:30:09.120 for example that are

00:30:09.980 not necessarily

00:30:10.980 political or

00:30:11.700 conservative that are

00:30:12.660 downtown business

00:30:13.620 owners that are you

00:30:15.300 know either shutting

00:30:15.900 down their businesses

00:30:16.700 or just every day

00:30:17.900 posting hey if anyone

00:30:19.300 recognizes this person

00:30:20.500 they broke in and

00:30:21.260 stole a couple of

00:30:21.880 laptops you know a

00:30:22.980 friend of mine who

00:30:23.560 owns a climbing gym in

00:30:25.260 Brantford Ontario had

00:30:26.540 you know a break in at

00:30:28.260 his place and again you

00:30:29.520 don't know if it's

00:30:30.020 drug related for sure

00:30:31.000 but I think the link

00:30:31.840 between drug and crime

00:30:32.840 is pretty pretty

00:30:34.460 ironclad at this point

00:30:35.680 and and again this is

00:30:36.700 not to your point

00:30:37.840 earlier a political

00:30:38.680 experience or this you

00:30:40.660 know ideological debate

00:30:41.680 for a lot of people

00:30:42.480 it's uh hey I cannot

00:30:44.080 live my life I can't

00:30:45.360 safely walk around I

00:30:46.540 can't keep my business

00:30:47.480 functioning because of

00:30:48.940 this problem

00:30:49.640 yeah no I I think

00:30:53.240 that's that's um I

00:30:55.680 mean I think more and

00:30:56.380 more people are waking

00:30:57.240 up to what's to what's

00:30:58.740 happening you mentioned

00:30:59.400 the business owners the

00:31:00.320 connection between crime

00:31:01.480 uh and drugs which I

00:31:03.060 think is is completely

00:31:05.600 I mean I think it's a

00:31:06.360 direct line uh I mean

00:31:07.900 we talked to we talked

00:31:08.780 to addicts in recovery

00:31:09.600 who said you know their

00:31:10.320 drug habit was cost

00:31:11.640 them 200 300 dollars a

00:31:13.800 day and you know they

00:31:15.680 had to go out and make

00:31:18.020 make that money committing

00:31:19.300 crime stealing goods or

00:31:20.440 whatever the case may be

00:31:21.500 um to be able to fuel

00:31:23.260 their addiction so I

00:31:24.120 think it's it's it's

00:31:25.020 one's fueling the other

00:31:25.800 for sure so moving beyond

00:31:28.820 the you know Canada is

00:31:30.520 dying angle to the how

00:31:31.800 do we get Canada living

00:31:33.100 again what do you take

00:31:35.340 out of this as a

00:31:36.620 filmmaker for the

00:31:37.740 the prescriptions pardon

00:31:38.940 the pun to fix this

00:31:40.880 well the back third of the

00:31:44.820 documentary we looked a

00:31:46.040 lot at solutions so um you

00:31:48.920 know drawing from best

00:31:49.840 practices around the world

00:31:51.120 in places like Portugal

00:31:52.300 Alberta has really been

00:31:54.420 pushing forward on a

00:31:55.380 completely different

00:31:56.500 approach it's called a

00:31:57.380 recovery oriented system

00:31:58.740 of care that places hope

00:32:00.580 and treatment at the

00:32:02.400 center of their policy as

00:32:03.940 opposed to destigmatization

00:32:06.160 decriminalization and

00:32:08.260 handing out free drugs

00:32:09.420 they're building 10 new

00:32:10.660 treatment facilities we

00:32:12.200 toured one in Red Deer

00:32:13.280 that's probably open now

00:32:15.180 or I think opening next

00:32:16.040 month and um I think

00:32:19.280 what they're doing is

00:32:20.040 is they're basically

00:32:20.800 saying you know it is a

00:32:22.500 message of hope it's

00:32:23.260 seeing people languishing

00:32:24.540 on the side of the

00:32:25.860 streets and not saying

00:32:27.680 you know I think this is

00:32:29.240 the best that you can do

00:32:30.700 I think this is your lot

00:32:32.000 in life uh we'll try to

00:32:33.560 ease your suffering and

00:32:34.400 actually saying no um

00:32:36.580 treatment is available

00:32:37.920 recovery is possible and

00:32:39.240 as a government uh we're

00:32:40.540 going to help you get

00:32:41.160 better and we're going to

00:32:42.320 help to return you to

00:32:44.480 being productive tax

00:32:45.560 paying members of society

00:32:46.780 once again and I think

00:32:48.540 um you know I think

00:32:49.400 Alberta's still in the

00:32:50.060 early phases of rolling

00:32:51.300 that plan out but um you

00:32:53.480 know that the problem in

00:32:54.180 so much of this country is

00:32:55.540 it's easier to get your

00:32:56.500 next fix than it is to get

00:32:57.760 into treatment in British

00:32:58.740 Columbia uh that is

00:33:00.200 especially true and um

00:33:02.360 what Alberta's doing is is 1.00

00:33:03.980 is going in the opposite

00:33:04.820 direction making it harder

00:33:05.960 easier uh to get high and

00:33:07.900 easier to get into

00:33:08.760 treatment and easier to

00:33:09.680 get clean and I think

00:33:11.040 that's uh that's the that's

00:33:12.480 the general approach

00:33:13.220 there's also there's all

00:33:14.080 sorts of micro policies

00:33:15.140 that that um I think can

00:33:17.580 can comprise that I think

00:33:19.680 a little bit of harm

00:33:20.360 reduction isn't isn't a

00:33:21.460 bad thing um but uh you

00:33:24.680 know this this being okay

00:33:26.260 as a society with going

00:33:28.160 around as they've done in

00:33:29.660 British Columbia buying up

00:33:31.260 all the hotels warehousing

00:33:33.040 addicts in these hotels

00:33:34.140 and then throwing in bags

00:33:35.720 of government provided

00:33:36.600 drugs is uh I don't think

00:33:38.740 a solution that anybody

00:33:39.680 thinks uh or anybody who's

00:33:41.420 thinking critically is uh

00:33:43.240 is is a is a formula for

00:33:45.300 long-term success I mean

00:33:46.300 everyone you know knows

00:33:47.540 people that have struggled

00:33:48.300 with different substances

00:33:49.080 maybe alcohol for example

00:33:50.420 um I I've never known

00:33:52.380 someone that thinks

00:33:53.020 somebody they have a

00:33:54.600 friend or family member

00:33:55.380 struggling with alcohol

00:33:56.500 and the solution is to

00:33:57.520 supply them with free

00:33:58.700 alcohol is is is an

00:34:01.340 insane way of looking at

00:34:02.740 that problem and um I

00:34:05.800 think that uh it's no

00:34:07.200 different uh with drugs

00:34:08.320 except the the the

00:34:09.640 consequences are are even

00:34:11.200 more extreme uh just

00:34:13.660 outside of the content of

00:34:15.420 the documentary I know you

00:34:16.600 had a bizarre issue last

00:34:18.400 week with your trailer and

00:34:19.820 YouTube uh going where I

00:34:21.780 know you were uh this

00:34:22.600 thing was making its way

00:34:23.500 around and then you you

00:34:24.640 posted a chart which we

00:34:25.840 have up on the screen

00:34:26.640 there where you know the

00:34:28.020 view is just completely

00:34:29.320 flat line and YouTube's

00:34:30.820 like oh nothing to see

00:34:31.840 here but uh you're less

00:34:33.740 confident in their

00:34:34.760 approach on this

00:34:35.700 yeah well it's funny uh a

00:34:40.100 bunch of these kind of uh

00:34:41.980 lefty Twitter uh Twitter

00:34:44.460 heads were were saying it

00:34:45.640 was uh I was pushing some

00:34:46.720 kind of conspiracy I mean

00:34:47.640 Twitter uh YouTube

00:34:48.840 messaged me and said that

00:34:49.860 they were doing it so it

00:34:50.660 wasn't it wasn't a

00:34:51.360 conspiracy so what they did

00:34:53.120 uh is first they

00:34:54.120 demonetized uh the trailer

00:34:55.760 which exploded I think it

00:34:56.960 had like 40,000 views in

00:34:58.780 the first two hours and

00:35:00.160 then they slapped a age

00:35:01.980 restriction on it which

00:35:03.520 basically forced anybody

00:35:04.980 who wanted to watch it to

00:35:07.040 create a YouTube account

00:35:08.580 um or sign and then sign

00:35:11.040 into said YouTube account

00:35:12.320 and then confirm that

00:35:13.520 they were over the age of

00:35:14.240 18 and it also for all

00:35:16.880 intents and purposes

00:35:17.600 stopped the distribution of

00:35:19.940 the trailer uh at all

00:35:21.800 through YouTube's

00:35:22.440 algorithm um so that was

00:35:25.980 quite frustrating to deal

00:35:27.320 with they actually ended up

00:35:28.680 removing the age 0.90

00:35:29.380 restriction after about

00:35:30.280 four or five days uh of me

00:35:32.300 badgering them but um they

00:35:34.240 then when we released the

00:35:35.240 main documentary demonetized

00:35:37.140 that uh which is obviously

00:35:38.900 something as as a filmmaker

00:35:40.320 and documentary producer uh

00:35:42.700 very frustrating um so the

00:35:45.240 distribution seems to be

00:35:46.200 doing well it's got about

00:35:47.040 500,000 views in the first

00:35:48.520 week on YouTube alone but um

00:35:51.060 yeah very frustrating with the

00:35:52.840 demonetization of that and

00:35:54.220 and uh and the essentially

00:35:56.500 the block of the trailer for

00:35:57.800 the first four or five days

00:35:58.920 now did they did they

00:36:00.520 re-monetize the documentary on

00:36:02.140 YouTube because I thought I

00:36:02.960 saw an ad when I was

00:36:03.960 watching it uh again this

00:36:05.440 morning well right now it's

00:36:08.080 the old unless they're just

00:36:09.140 making money and you don't get

00:36:10.160 any of it yeah yeah they say

00:36:12.540 it's limited or no ads um so

00:36:15.220 uh hopefully I get one cent of

00:36:17.640 whatever you were uh yeah for

00:36:19.560 to watch for I'll uh I'll

00:36:21.040 keep hitting refresh on it

00:36:22.200 just in case we'll uh got to

00:36:23.580 get you back from Europe so 0.82

00:36:24.740 we'll uh make sure to add some

00:36:26.120 more views there uh the

00:36:27.480 documentary is fantastic and I

00:36:29.820 think very timely certainly

00:36:30.940 with uh some of the promises

00:36:32.220 we had from Danielle Smith

00:36:33.300 during the election uh some of

00:36:35.020 the things Pierre Polyev's

00:36:36.300 been talking about it is

00:36:37.320 Canada is Dying uh put

00:36:39.200 together by Aaron Gunn who

00:36:40.720 always is a wealth and a trove

00:36:43.220 of fabulous content so you

00:36:44.480 should follow him on YouTube

00:36:45.980 Facebook and anywhere else

00:36:47.420 Aaron great job on this and

00:36:48.740 thanks so much for coming on

00:36:49.840 today thank you for having

00:36:51.820 me Andrew it's it's my

00:36:52.840 pleasure and uh just gonna

00:36:54.680 keep getting the word out as

00:36:55.580 best I can that was Aaron

00:36:57.980 Gunn and the documentary

00:36:59.560 again is Canada is Dying just

00:37:01.740 on the topic of harm reduction

00:37:03.740 there was a a story earlier

00:37:05.300 this week that I I think I

00:37:06.760 recall it coming up a while

00:37:08.180 ago or I recall like people

00:37:09.800 talking about it it was uh

00:37:11.820 where Health Canada has

00:37:13.360 decreed that Canada is going

00:37:15.500 to have to start putting

00:37:16.460 warning labels that are

00:37:18.200 normally on boxes of cigarette

00:37:20.360 boxes packages packages of

00:37:22.400 cigarettes I'm not a smoker

00:37:23.320 sorry uh the the warnings are

00:37:25.180 going to have to be on the

00:37:25.980 individual cigarette so uh you

00:37:28.520 know you're going to get like

00:37:29.220 the label on the carton the

00:37:30.820 label on the pack and then when

00:37:32.740 you pull out a cigarette you're

00:37:33.840 going to get like in little like

00:37:35.220 micro print a warning on there

00:37:37.280 that like says cigarettes damage

00:37:38.720 your organs uh tobacco smoke

00:37:40.980 harms children cigarettes cause

00:37:42.820 impotence all of I'm just

00:37:43.960 reading the from the photo

00:37:45.440 there and I'm I was thinking of

00:37:47.520 this and then in conjunction

00:37:48.880 with like the mandatory calorie

00:37:50.780 count thing on menus now I'm

00:37:52.540 just imagining a point where you

00:37:54.420 know every little french fry has

00:37:56.080 to have a little like tag on it

00:37:57.600 that says this thing is causing

00:37:58.920 obesity uh you know every little

00:38:00.800 burger is going to have to have

00:38:02.160 like printed on the bun in some

00:38:03.940 way a warning label that's the way

00:38:06.240 we're heading with the uh the nanny 1.00

00:38:07.740 state now but uh but again when it

00:38:09.440 comes to drugs sure take all you

00:38:10.920 want no warning label on your

00:38:12.420 individual hydromorphone tablet

00:38:14.200 that you are then uh trading in

00:38:16.600 the parking lot of the pharmacy

00:38:18.180 uh we are going to end things on

00:38:20.320 a bit of a lighter note because

00:38:22.060 we've of course done the heavy

00:38:23.480 world of drug policy for much of

00:38:25.580 the last uh 36 minutes or so uh it

00:38:28.700 is time for fake news friday

00:38:31.360 yes fake news friday navigating

00:38:41.520 through the deluge of deception the

00:38:44.620 whirlpools of wackiness trying to

00:38:47.140 make sense of it all as only we can

00:38:49.860 or at least as only we strive to here

00:38:51.900 at true north and I decided we do a

00:38:54.160 little Alberta politics themed fake

00:38:55.940 news friday this week a roundup of

00:38:58.000 some of the really upsetting and

00:39:01.040 depressing and by that I mean

00:39:02.900 completely hilarious tweets from

00:39:04.740 people trying to reckon with

00:39:06.100 Danielle Smith's victory on Monday

00:39:08.260 night Dale Thompson writes I'll say

00:39:10.340 this about Alberta I'll never step

00:39:12.720 foot in their province again until

00:39:14.360 they boot out the UCP and all other

00:39:16.700 fringe far-right groups too maybe it's

00:39:19.620 not fair to punish the good

00:39:20.980 Albertans for this but FFS which is

00:39:23.580 like for bleep's sake I now lump

00:39:25.840 Alberta in with Florida that's 0.99

00:39:27.520 actually a good Alabama and Texas well

00:39:30.200 but Dale Thompson I'm sure the

00:39:31.560 people of Alberta are so sad that

00:39:33.900 you'll never be gracing them with

00:39:35.320 your presence Amanda Hugh writes hug

00:39:38.160 your loved ones check in with your

00:39:39.900 friends in your community it's okay to

00:39:41.700 take space to grieve what has

00:39:43.740 happened then look out then look for

00:39:46.080 the folks with whom we can foster and

00:39:47.740 build solidarity we've got our work cut

00:39:50.540 out for us I responded to ask her if

00:39:53.540 she was okay I said are you okay because

00:39:55.840 I was genuinely she seemed to be

00:39:57.400 struggling and then she blocked me on 1.00

00:39:58.840 Twitter so I don't know if she's okay

00:40:00.480 or not and Jonathan Cluett writes

00:40:02.800 crushing news to wake up to in Alberta

00:40:05.120 as an OBGYN I'm worried for my

00:40:07.640 patients as a gay man I'm scared for my

00:40:10.660 queer community this isn't the Canada 1.00

00:40:12.520 I thought I lived in I am not convinced

00:40:17.360 I know or he knows why he's scared

00:40:20.300 Danielle Smith is one of the most like 0.98

00:40:21.800 socially liberal people you will talk to

00:40:24.820 and if you listen to her show you'll

00:40:26.380 know that she loves gay people she has

00:40:28.220 no issue whatsoever but he lives in

00:40:30.220 fear for him and his queer community so

00:40:32.680 a lot of people having trouble grappling

00:40:34.860 with the results of the election but you

00:40:37.300 know what tough luck Danielle Smith

00:40:39.360 won that does it for us hope you have

00:40:41.460 a great weekend we'll be back next week

00:40:43.180 with more of Canada's most irreverent

00:40:45.040 talk show here on true north thank you

00:40:47.080 god bless and good day to you all

00:40:49.040 thanks for listening to the Andrew

00:40:50.320 Lawton show support the program by

00:40:52.400 donating to true north at www.tnc.news

Juno News - June 02, 2023

Exposing Canada's drug and crime crisis (feat. Aaron Gunn)

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