00:01:00.000welcome to canada's most irreverent talk show this is the andrew lawton show brought to you by true
00:01:20.320north hello and welcome to you all this is canada's most irreverent talk show the andrew
00:01:30.180lawton show here on true north with a slightly more normal sounding host today compared to
00:01:36.140yesterday we're not like totally back to full strength irreverence but we are getting close
00:01:40.600to it thank you to all of you who sent me kind well wishes after yesterday's program
00:01:45.260one of them was my mother who i like hadn't told i was sick and i think she learned it by listening
00:01:49.560to the show so uh that was very kind of her to uh to reach out sorry i didn't give you a heads up
00:01:54.600there mom but uh we are going to work our way through it the andrew lawton death watch has
00:01:59.860commenced but if we can get through the next uh half hour so we are good to go and then i get a
00:02:05.200whole weekend to rest up before hitting back actually no i'm off next week so i've got like
00:02:09.200lots of time to uh to rest up but we'll try to make the most of it as we close out this week of
00:02:14.180the andrew lawton show here for you going to be speaking very shortly with mark milkey of the
00:02:19.240Aristotle Foundation about a rather interesting study they've done finding that systemic racism
00:02:25.900is not actually a thing in Canada which you may have probably surmised on your own but that is
00:02:31.860certainly news to many of the elites and thought leaders of this country so good to have the data
00:02:36.920to push back against those. I also want to talk about the firearms file which is one where gun
00:02:42.940owners are getting a rare reprieve under this liberal government but before I get there I've
00:02:47.660got to point out something here really funny. Catherine Tate, who is the CEO of CBC, the Canadian
00:02:53.300state broadcaster, was appearing, doing some speaking event, and she was blaming the CBC's
00:03:00.600$100 million budget shortfall on big tech companies. She's saying, oh, well, yes, you know,
00:03:06.100we're getting squeezed and suffocated by all these regulations from Meta and Google. And I'm like,
00:03:11.960your entire budget comes from taxpayers. If you manage to have a budget shortfall,
00:03:17.960it's because you're spending too much. And anyone who's ever seen CBC in action will know that they
00:03:23.660spend insane amounts of money. I once was, this was years ago, back when I did my old radio show
00:03:29.520in London, Ontario, I was covering a thwarted terrorist attack in Strathroy, which is a town
00:03:35.580just about, I don't know, like half an hour west of London. And it was the Aaron Driver incident,
00:03:40.100if you'll remember that. So this would have been 2017, I think. And I was on the scene there
00:03:45.880reporting on it. And then the next day, I set it up so that I would do my show live from the street
00:03:51.620in Strathroy. We have this little mobile kit and I went there. And by this point, it's a national
00:03:56.580news story. So you've got national media there. There's a guy from Globe and Mail. CTV's got a
00:04:01.040satellite truck. And CBC, I'm going to count it out because I always forget how many crews there
00:04:06.360were. They sent CBC National. They sent CBC The National. So that's like the show called The
00:04:13.300National. They sent CBC's local Toronto Bureau. They sent CBC's local Windsor Bureau. They sent
00:04:20.120someone from the CBC London Bureau. And then they sent also, it was CBC Radio Canada. Yeah,
00:04:27.220Sean reminded me, it's the Radio Canada guys. So to do the same thing in French. So that was six
00:04:32.200separate crews that they sent to cover one single event. I'm like, maybe you could just get one
00:04:38.380person and everyone uses their coverage, but no, that would just be too easy. So if CBC has a $100
00:04:44.660million budget shortfall, I can find at least six crews worth cutting there that could probably save
00:04:50.360a few bucks every year. But this is where I go back to, if you're a fan of Pierre Polyev, you'll
00:04:55.060no doubt have heard his line that he can't wait until some beautiful Toronto couple goes and
00:05:00.300shows up at their new home, which was formerly the CBC headquarters in Toronto. So they are ripe
00:05:06.260for the picking there, CBC's spending. This is a big issue for me. I am a firearms owner, as you
00:05:13.060know, doubt have heard me talk about, but even if you're not, I think most people in Canada should
00:05:18.140be able to understand the idea of due process and of property rights. These are very important
00:05:23.760concepts and things that the government on the gun file has completely and utterly abandoned.
00:05:29.060So let's go back to 2020. We have this horrific mass killing in Nova Scotia and it's just a
00:05:36.980horrible offense. The guy's firearms that he used were not purchased or owned legally. They were
00:05:41.440all smuggled in illegally from the United States, which is true of most guns used in crime in
00:05:46.860Canada. Nevertheless, the bodies were not even cold yet and the federal government decided to,
00:05:52.200by order and counsel, with the stroke of a pen, ban 1,500 variants of firearms. The most notable
00:05:58.780was the AR-15 type of gun. And Justin Trudeau had this way of describing these guns.
00:06:05.500We are banning 1,500 models and variants of these firearms by way of regulations.
00:06:12.420These weapons were designed for one purpose and one purpose only,
00:06:16.960to kill the largest number of people in the shortest amount of time.
00:06:22.880Now that was news to the gun owners who owned those firearms and had never killed anyone or
00:06:28.420anything with them or those who use the guns legally for hunting people that use them for
00:06:33.860sport shooting for collecting for target practice for hunting all of these are legitimate legal
00:06:39.860uses for the firearms that with that stroke of a pen on may 1st 2020 the government prohibited
00:06:46.660but the government committed to this narrative we heard bill blair who at the time was the public
00:06:51.060safety minister make very similar comments around that same time these guns are killing machines
00:06:56.100That's the only thing they are, calling them weapons, military-grade assault weapons, military-grade assault rifles.
00:07:02.880That was a term that we heard used to describe these things, which were specifically designed for civilians.
00:07:09.500They were specifically designed for the civilian market.
00:07:13.520But that rhetoric is still important, because if these guns were, as the Liberals pretended in 2020, killing machines,
00:07:21.140why have they been so slow to confiscate them?
00:07:23.880It has now been well over three years, about three and a half years since that order in council, and there has not been one single firearm bought back as part of the federal government's promised buyback.
00:07:35.680It was supposed to be a two-year amnesty wrapping up in 2022.
00:07:39.920Eventually, it got kicked back, and then it got kicked back yet again a couple of weeks ago to 2025, we were told.
00:07:45.740Now, they've made that official, so it's now going to be after the next federal election, before the amnesty period, which means the period at which I can still continue to own these prohibited guns, will end.
00:07:59.740Now, that's actually a big deal for gun owners because it means that now it's not a fait accompli.
00:08:04.580There is a federal election in between now and when that eventual gun confiscation will take place, which means a government that wants to commit to a different path could potentially form, and we have a very different landscape.
00:08:19.520Now, maybe the liberals think that if the election is won and is fought over guns, they're going to win it.
00:08:24.640That's certainly what they tried to do with Aaron O'Toole in 2021.
00:08:27.940One, Pierre Polyev has been fairly consistent that he is a supporter of lawful gun ownership
00:08:33.280and that he opposes these liberal government measures.
00:08:36.200But we also know that the media will buy into that liberal narrative on what these guns
00:08:40.880are, as happens time and time again, because gun owners in Canada are a minority.
00:08:46.040That is, I think, just a statement of fact.
00:08:49.320So it's difficult to get people who aren't in that community to understand why anyone
00:08:54.200needs an AR-15, why anyone needs a Mini-14.
00:08:57.940And this is why I've tried to make public education a big part of this show whenever the issue arises.
00:09:03.800Because what you get from the government is a lot of rhetoric that sounds nice but isn't borne out by the facts.
00:09:09.380This was Dominic LeBlanc, one of the Liberal Ministers, weighing in on the extension here.
00:09:14.960With respect to your question, Senator, it may not surprise you.
00:09:19.420I don't think that Indigenous peoples writ large oppose this bill.
00:09:24.420and I don't think to say that hunters or sports groups oppose this legislation.
00:09:31.380There is, every time governments or parliament legislate in this area,
00:09:37.300a very quick reaction from hunting groups, sports shooters,
00:09:43.820many of whom are in my constituency in rural New Brunswick.
00:09:47.520That's why I think it's important for us to continue to explain
00:09:52.080and to be able to point in the legislation to why these particular legislative measures,
00:09:58.360first of all, respect completely Indigenous rights.
00:10:01.940That's a part that we amended, we added to the bill,
00:10:05.240because I think in an initial version of this legislation,
00:10:08.820much of what you identified in your question was a very real concern.
00:10:13.280That's why I think the legislative process in our place, I hope,
00:10:17.380to a large extent attenuated or diminished those concerns.
00:10:21.480So we are entirely respective of Indigenous Section 35 rights, and we're designing legislation that deliberately targets those who use weapons or want to have weapons that are not, in fact, part of a typical hunter or sports person's routine.
00:10:41.420So I think that there's broad support in Canada for thoughtful, effective measures to reduce the proliferation and access to military-style assault weapons.
00:10:56.800Sorry, I was like getting comfortable there, sitting back watching the show with Dominic LeBlanc.
00:11:01.460But there he's saying, you know, military-style assault weapons.
00:11:04.700That's the Liberals' word of the day there, military-style assault weapons.
00:11:08.600He's saying, oh yeah, no, we're just going to make Canadians aware that this is not going to
00:11:13.660cover the average hunter or sports shooter or farmer or anything like that, except it will.
00:11:19.020And every time, that was on Bill C-21, which is the bill that's going to cement the handgun ban,
00:11:24.320among other things. But that's what the government has done. They've tried to muddy the waters here
00:11:29.580and pretend that they're not going after things they're going after. It only takes one example
00:11:34.920to prove a negative or to disprove a thesis. So when the government says we're not targeting
00:11:39.900hunters and someone can point to one single gun that is used by hunters, the government's line
00:11:45.120has been proven to be a lie. When they say we're not going after sports shooters, all you have to
00:11:50.480do is say, well, there are sports shooting competitions that involve AR-15s. So therefore,
00:11:54.920the government's line is a lie. And this is what's happened time and time again. So he wants to sit
00:12:00.900back and pretend to be reasonable. Oh, no, but we're listening in this. Oh, no, we're respecting
00:12:05.760indigenous people. We're respecting sport shooters. We're respecting hunters. We're doing all of that.
00:12:10.660Well, let me tell you, I've not met a single gun owner in this country who has felt respected by
00:12:15.060the liberal government in the last eight years. And it was interesting, behind Dominic LeBlanc
00:12:21.860there, you could see just to the left, Terry Bryant. Now, Terry Bryant is the chief firearms
00:12:26.680officer in Alberta. Now, the firearms regimes are federal. The regulations, the laws are federal.
00:12:33.840But provinces can appoint their own CFO. And this was something I actually brought up with
00:12:39.640Terry Bryant when I ran into Terry at the UCPAGM in Calgary. How much authority do provinces
00:12:45.700really have? This was our conversation in Calgary on the weekend. Is the landscape for firearms
00:12:52.480issues in Alberta so different compared to several other provinces in Canada right now?
00:12:56.680Well, I think there's two answers to that, I think. One is it's not as different as you might think because if you go outside a few of the major metropolitan areas, you'll find that the vast majority of the geographical area of Canada thinks that not that much differently than Alberta.
00:13:13.020But we do have some specific circumstances in Alberta.
00:13:17.660For example, we've long had a major role played by agriculture and ranching,
00:13:22.880which instilled a sort of sense of individual responsibility and looking after oneself.
00:13:31.320And I think firearms have been a part of that because they were so actively used by ranchers and farmers.
00:13:39.260obviously provinces have the ability as in your case to appoint their own cfo but so many of the
00:13:45.240laws and regulations are federal so how much autonomy do provinces really have and where
00:13:50.380are those issues where they can kind of be a bit more independent on firearms issues and respect
00:13:54.700gun owners a bit more well i think there's a couple of aspects to that again one it makes a big
00:14:01.020difference uh the attitude of the people you have in the office and i can't tell you how many people
00:14:07.300You know, I attend gun shows virtually every weekend or other firearms events, and I can't tell you how many people come up to praise my staff for the great work that they're doing because they just have an approach of how can we help you to solve whatever issue you have instead of how can we make your life difficult.
00:14:25.400And so that's, I think, one important aspect.
00:14:29.480The other important aspect is it is true that this is an area where there is primarily federal jurisdiction,
00:14:35.860but that just makes it all the more important for us to seek out every nook and cranny
00:14:39.980where there is some opportunity to exercise provincial discretion.
00:14:44.740And as part of that process, that also means that we are learning exactly how the whole program works
00:14:53.320So that if we do get a change of government in Ottawa, we'll be able to assist in transitioning to a more firearms owner friendly regime, which will, I think, pay huge dividends in terms of public safety for even for non firearms owners.
00:15:09.700because there is just so much of what the federal government does that is not focused on public safety.
00:15:15.800It is focused on bureaucratic procedures, making life difficult for ordinary firearms owners instead of going after criminals.
00:15:23.240And if we were able to refocus a bit on the problem areas and give the law-abiding people a little bit more leeway,
00:15:35.640then I think we would get a lot more support for the program all across Canada.
00:15:40.820And as everyone in law enforcement will tell you, it was mentioned, I think, by both administers today,
00:15:47.020public safety requires public support for all of the aspects of administration and enforcement of the law.
00:15:58.980And so if we're able to build better relationships with the public, that will pay great dividends in terms of public safety.
00:16:08.540And that, I think, right there is one of the key differences, is that often the firearms approaches that we see are about what can we do to get in the way of Canadians from owning firearms, whereas in Alberta, they've actually taken it.
00:16:22.100This is in large part due to Jason Kenney's appointment of Terry Bryant and Terry Bryant's continued work under the Danielle Smith government to make a customer service focus central to the Alberta firearms.
00:16:33.920And again, it didn't come up in the interview there, but the Alberta government has said to the federal government, we will not direct any police resources to be used to confiscate these firearms.
00:16:45.140So the federal government kind of had its hands tied because they cannot direct Alberta's police officers.
00:16:51.180Even when the RCMP is working in Alberta, it's under contract and license to the Alberta government,
00:16:56.140so they cannot take their orders from Ottawa.
00:16:58.340So, you know, game, set, match right there.
00:17:01.320I also spoke about this with Justice Minister Mickey Amory in Alberta
00:17:05.620to get more of the government political side of that same discussion I had with Terry Bryant.
00:17:13.220Why is the firearms landscape for Albertans so different than it is in several other provinces right now?
00:17:18.800What's your government been doing to make that happen?
00:17:20.300Well, first and foremost, I want to tell you that per capita, Alberta has the highest rate of gun ownership, law-abiding gun ownership in the entire country.
00:17:30.560And so guns are near and dear to many Albertans for sport, for survival, for any number of reasons.
00:17:36.560I think that's an important component.
00:17:38.480We're working on developing the, I think, one of the leading chief firearm offices in the country.
00:17:45.540It is being led by our resident expert, the Chief Firearms Officer Terry Bryant, who has likely the most experience and probably the most knowledge when it comes to legal gun ownership in the country.
00:18:00.180I'm tremendously proud of the way that that office is moving.
00:18:03.540It is taking on a leading role both within Alberta and providing services potentially to other provinces across Canada in helping them develop their own offices as well.
00:18:12.980And so there are many things that I'm proud about when it comes to our firearms program, the chief firearms office and the firearms officer.
00:18:20.920And this is something that I think makes Alberta very unique.
00:18:24.260So many of the laws and regulations are federal. So do you feel a bit handcuffed in a way?
00:18:28.680I mean, are there enough areas where the province can really exercise a bit of autonomy on this issue?
00:18:33.660Yeah, and I fully acknowledge that there are certain barriers and challenges when it comes to our federal counterparts.
00:18:39.280But one of the key components here is that we are going to be a voice of reason every time we approach this issue.
00:18:46.940A few weeks ago, I wrote to the public safety minister suggesting that we need to put the gun confiscation program on hold for two years.
00:18:57.840Immediately after that, we received the wonderful news that they were going to do that.
00:19:01.540That suggests to me that the program was not nearly ready, that it was not well-reasoned,
00:19:06.540it was not well-grounded in the philosophies that the federal government has providing to Canadians.
00:19:13.040That two-year period will allow us to assess our position and assess our strategies going forward.
00:20:32.140I want to make sure that all of them know that we're doing everything we can within the realm and the limitations that we have to make sure that their views are being addressed in a constant way to our federal counterparts.
00:20:45.000This is a province that prides itself on being business friendly, on promoting and ensuring the growth of businesses in this province.
00:20:54.020And we want to continue with that reputation for many decades to come.
00:20:57.200that was alberta justice minister mickey amory on the firearms file so the good news is if you're
00:21:03.960a gun owner you've got a bit of a reprieve until the next election but you are not out of the woods
00:21:08.160just yet and i think it's why property rights in general need to be something we have a much
00:21:13.420greater discussion about in this country so we will close the book on firearms talk for today
00:21:18.580and move on to an issue that i find to be a fascinating one because internalized hatred of
00:21:24.420your own country has become this like real epidemic in Canada. One of the things we love
00:21:29.900doing here is importing American cultural battles. So when the George Floyd protests were waging in
00:21:35.980the United States, Canada also became very introspective. And we started to see all of
00:21:40.860these accusations that were based on these things that didn't quite make sense to a lot of people,
00:21:47.600like Canada is a deeply systemically racist country. But this wasn't just being shouted by
00:21:53.600bunch of rabid left-wing activists this was actually embedded in justin trudeau's mandate
00:21:58.880letters to his ministers in december 2021 he put this following line in his ministerial mandate
00:22:05.920letters profound systemic inequities and disparities that remain present in the core
00:22:11.360fabric of our society including our core institutions we've had the rcmp commissioner
00:22:17.360forced to testify on the stand of a parliamentary committee to the rcmp being filled with systemic
00:22:22.800racism. We've seen the Department of National Defense talk about how Canada's foundations
00:22:27.420have a white supremacy woven into them, the fabric of Canadian society. So is Canada a
00:22:34.660systemically racist country and what does that mean? Well, our friends at the Aristotle Foundation,
00:22:39.620specifically Matthew Lau, did a deep dive into it and they looked at a number of key metrics and
00:22:44.660found that in fact not at all is this accusation true. Joining me is the founder and president of
00:22:52.000the Aristotle Foundation, Mark Mielke. Mark, good to talk to you as always, sir. Thanks for coming
00:22:56.320on today. Thanks for having me on, Andrew. So let's start off firstly with why the Aristotle
00:23:01.540Foundation went into this issue in the first place and why Matthew did this study.
00:23:06.820Sure. Well, for years, as you've pointed out, we've heard this notion that Canada is systemically
00:23:11.180racist, institutionally racist, and you have to unpack that. You can meet bigots anywhere,
00:23:17.160any age. But I wrote in this some time ago in my last book, The Victim Cult. Matthew wrote about it
00:23:23.280in a chapter for the 1867 project, Why Canada Should Be Cherished, Not Cancelled. And you and
00:23:28.420I talked about that, as did Matthew a couple of months ago, that chapter. But this accusation
00:23:34.040that Canada is systemically racist really needs to be unpacked. And you mentioned American influence
00:23:39.200a moment ago. Well, Thomas Sowell has done a lot of great analysis in this United States, right?
00:23:43.680But we found that there wasn't a lot of good analysis kind of challenging this narrative, you know, that United States in Seoul's case or Canada in this case is systemic racist.
00:23:53.020And I can tell you some of the research I did in my previous book that Matthew has done shows, you know, shows it's nonsensical.
00:24:01.320As one example, Ontario in the early 1950s began to pass laws against discrimination based on gender or ethnicity in the early 1950s for accommodation, for employment, that sort of thing.
00:24:13.680Prior to the 1950s, if you were black or if you're a woman, you may be denied accommodation or a certain job.
00:24:18.920Post early 1950s, 70 years ago, that was outlawed.
00:24:23.320So what Matthew has done in a new paper for the Aristotle Foundation is unpack this even more.
00:24:28.880Yeah, and I think the one thing that's important to point out here is that no one is saying that racism does not exist in Canada.
00:24:35.540There are individual racists, there are individual racism incidents.
00:24:38.860But when you say systemic racism, that carries a lot of weight because you're saying that it's embedded in institutions.
00:25:13.140If you were Jewish at a certain point in Canadian and American history, you might not have been allowed into certain colleges or at least not above a certain percentage of the population.
00:25:22.200Chinese people in San Francisco were not allowed at white hospitals because they were white.
00:25:27.040The Chinese of San Francisco literally had to set up their own hospitals.
00:25:30.420That was institutional discrimination.
00:25:32.140pre-1960s in the American South. You could not be on the bus. At the front of the bus,
00:25:37.580if you were black, you had to be at the back. The system, the institution literally discriminated
00:25:42.640against you, whether it was a hospital, a busing authority, a landlord, so on and so forth.
00:25:47.700But much of that has been outlawed for 60 or 70 years. So that's very different than meeting a
00:25:54.260bigot on the street today, who may be anti-Semitic, by the way. That seems to be the latest popular
00:25:59.500prejudice out there, which should be attacked. So you can meet bigots, but that's not the same
00:26:04.940thing as saying the system is rigged against you. So what Matthew does in his paper for the Aristotle
00:26:09.100Foundation, asking about this question, and you can find it at AristotleFoundation.org, is he
00:26:14.860compares incomes, for example, and says, okay, if we're actually a systemically racist society,
00:26:20.460shouldn't that show up in the data? So as one example, he goes to Statistics Canada,
00:26:26.300and he uses the data that tries to equalize for you know people that work full year full time
00:26:30.940look at income by ethnicity well what does he find if you've got skin color like me and you
00:26:36.380andrew we're in the middle of the pack right males or females and you find um you know some portions
00:26:42.140of of ethnic canada if you're japanese canadian or korean canadian if that's your ancestry
00:26:47.500you've actually got higher weekly average earnings or median earnings rather so um that matters
00:26:53.660Because as Matthew points out in his paper for the Aristotle Foundation, do you say, for example, that if you're, say, Latin American in some cases, and your income is lower than the average white Canadian, does that mean somehow the system is rigged against you as a Latin American, but not as a Korean Canadian or a Chinese Canadian?
00:27:12.580So he brings up the absurdity again of this claim.
00:27:15.340You'd think, for example, that white Canadians should have incomes that are higher than anybody else.