Juno News - Feds spend $1.7 million promoting carbon tax abroad

00:00:00.000 you're tuned in to the andrew lawton show

00:00:05.920 speaking of alberta let's go to our friend chris sims here for a rare tuesday check-in given the

00:00:14.940 holiday yesterday she is the alberta director for the canadian taxpayers federation chris

00:00:19.500 good to talk to you thanks for coming on today likewise i didn't hear that so he's skipping the

00:00:24.660 calgary stampede can you hear that's according to the western standard anyway uh confirmed by an

00:00:31.960 email from the pmo so uh basically they are not interested in well he's not interested in being

00:00:38.380 there and i think albertans are probably just as pleased because i don't don't think they were

00:00:41.440 ready to give him the white hat welcome by any stretch but uh we've talked a lot you and i over

00:00:45.980 the last year about the carbon tax it's become an incredibly unpopular tax it's costing canadians a

00:00:51.660 lot of money despite the proclamations that it's not uh what i find interesting here and you drew

00:00:56.680 my attention to this the government has spent 1.7 million dollars promoting the carbon tax around

00:01:03.260 the world so promoting global carbon taxes so they don't just want uh people in red deer and strathroy

00:01:10.260 and halifax to pay the carbon tax they want people in baku and talon and paris to pay a carbon tax as

00:01:18.020 well talk to me about this yeah so it's one of those things where i had to take a double take

00:01:22.720 at it because i couldn't tell right away if it was 1.7 million or 1.7 billion and the fact that i

00:01:29.060 didn't blink at the difference speaks volumes because they just as easily could have been a

00:01:34.180 billion but in this case it's 1.7 million dollars with an m and we found this out through freedom of

00:01:41.080 information requests uh with the federal government through our investigative journalist ryan thorpe there

00:01:47.200 in ottawa he and franco dug this up and yeah turns out they've spent around 800 000 and change or so

00:01:53.900 andrew on bureaucrats keeping seats warm and watering house plants there in the national capital region

00:01:59.580 trying to promote adopting a carbon tax in other countries and what i find spectacularly sad about this

00:02:07.700 is that they fail like they're they're really bad at this so not only are they wasting canadian

00:02:14.860 taxpayers money on something silly and frivolous like trying to convince a foreign country to impose 0.64

00:02:20.340 a tax on its people but they're terrible at it they haven't succeeded in doing so like i'll just point

00:02:25.880 out the united states of america it's obviously our closest neighbor biggest trading partner huge ally

00:02:31.640 blah blah i just finished driving across three states actually came home yesterday and they number one

00:02:37.640 depending on how you slice it it really looks like they reduced their emissions under trump and that

00:02:44.300 is largely because they increased their use of natural gas reading they do not have a national

00:02:51.140 carbon tax in the united states of america and even though their chirpy little sister up here in 1.00

00:02:56.560 canada has been urging them to do so they still haven't imposed one on their people so if we can't even

00:03:02.300 convince the united states to have a national carbon tax why are we wasting money trying to convince

00:03:08.000 countries further afield to do so there are two things that come to mind on this number one is

00:03:13.280 that talk about a race to the bottom is that you know we we've been saying to the government you know

00:03:17.660 even if canada were to bring its emissions to zero it wouldn't amount to a hill of beans because

00:03:21.900 emissions are global so the government says okay uh we'll see you uh that argument and raise you

00:03:27.260 everyone has a carbon tax there you can't say we're ignoring the global picture but the other thing and

00:03:31.960 this is what i think is so key here the greatest detriment that a carbon well one of the greatest

00:03:37.340 detriments a carbon tax poses is that it eliminates any competitive advantage that canada might have

00:03:42.780 and investing in canada might have relative to other countries so if you're to say oh why would i

00:03:47.860 invest in canada which has a carbon tax when i can invest and open up my factory in oh i don't know

00:03:53.520 in czech republic say because they don't have a carbon tax uh the government's trying to make it so

00:03:58.840 that everyone is being punitive so that everyone is penalizing industry and as you note other

00:04:03.760 countries are saying nope yeah exactly because they know that this is not helping the environment

00:04:09.500 they know it's not reducing emissions because if you start punishing people financially for an essential

00:04:15.400 okay heating your home in the winter is essential growing and eating food is essential shipping your

00:04:21.460 supplies to people who need it and getting to work those are all essential things people aren't flying

00:04:27.140 their private jets around the world to you know cop conferences for reducing your emissions right

00:04:32.400 they're not this is not a have yacht issue this is a normal working class sort of thing and yet

00:04:37.800 they're still financially punishing us and if you take that viewpoint around the world of course they

00:04:42.940 have working people and working populations and normal families around the world and canada our

00:04:48.700 little academic class there in ottawa trying to say you know what you guys should do you should

00:04:53.140 punish people for driving to work and heating their homes they're rightly telling us to go get lost 0.95

00:04:58.080 the problem here though of course andrew is that this is again costing canadian taxpayers money

00:05:03.360 1.7 million dollars and it's not nothing it's also growing the size of our bureaucracy

00:05:09.360 and it's the same sort of thing that the former new york city mayor giuliani had when it came to crime

00:05:14.340 it's the broken windows theory if you allow for jaywalking and broken windows and graffiti 0.86

00:05:19.240 you're going to have increasing levels of crime same sort of thing with dumb things like spending

00:05:26.540 money on promoting a carbon tax internationally it doesn't work it wastes money and it grows

00:05:31.620 government so again i'm really glad that the folks there at the ctf in ottawa's office dug this stuff

00:05:36.760 up because it points out how absolutely pointless this is i will point out i just filled up in montana

00:05:42.340 on my way back across into alberta that's why my voice is so ratchet because i was screaming at a concert

00:05:46.880 for like three hours but i filled up there it's like 30 cents around 30 cents cheaper there per liter

00:05:54.140 same octane for gasoline than it is even here across the border in alberta and that's comparing

00:06:00.540 montana to alberta i can't imagine what the difference would be going from a really red state

00:06:05.140 to a really liberal state or province up here in canada yeah i i think you're right about that and and

00:06:10.880 you know i go back to the race to the bottom dimension of this here because we always forget

00:06:15.820 that in a well i we don't but the government does or chooses to ignore that in a globalized economy

00:06:21.460 you have to be able to sell what you are offering better than other places around the world now

00:06:27.200 obviously there are shipping costs that have to be factored in there and maybe canada can say okay

00:06:31.760 we have a bit of a comparative advantage to say the u.s market because of our proximity to it

00:06:35.760 but the fact that in canada it's so expensive to manufacture things labor is a part of that yes

00:06:40.740 the carbon tax adds to it and we have to stop looking at these things in isolation the left

00:06:45.340 loves talking about intersectionality well let's talk about intersectionality of taxes and regulations

00:06:50.840 and all of these things here i might steal that from you it's all yours it's all yours really good

00:06:57.340 analysis and spot on and to your point exactly so people might remember this big foo for a that was

00:07:03.000 happening between the the prime minister's office pmo and parliamentary budget office pbo ottawa loves their

00:07:10.240 acronyms just like the armed forces so what was happening was the pbo parliamentary budget officer

00:07:15.960 had figured out spoiler alert that the carbon tax costs people money even with their precious rebates

00:07:22.340 factored in every common sense person already knew this of course but they did the math there

00:07:27.540 and what's really startling is that you take a look exactly to your point andrew the gdp cost okay

00:07:33.780 so we're not talking just generally people filling up their minivans or their pickup trucks directly

00:07:38.680 or even paying you know the carbon tax on their on their heat bill which is insane but if you just

00:07:44.000 look at apples to apples the gdp cost so the difference between bill jones starting a manufacturing

00:07:51.540 plant in montana with no carbon tax versus starting a manufacturing plant in alberta with a carbon tax

00:07:59.780 that difference is costing the canadian economy billions of dollars per year and again that's just the

00:08:07.960 economic cost that the pbo was factoring in there and that of course is why the prime minister's

00:08:13.500 office was kicking and screaming for weeks andrew and they didn't want to release this information

00:08:17.140 but they finally had to cough it up last week and it's really damaging

00:08:20.580 yeah and we found that all of the arguments used to justify the carbon tax have not held water we know

00:08:27.360 it does uh penalize canadians there is a i mean and that's even just based on the government's own

00:08:32.320 analysis here so this idea that oh most people are coming out ahead well if so there wouldn't be a point in it

00:08:37.140 yeah exactly that's exactly i always like pointing that out because you can flip it around and say

00:08:42.380 oh well okay if it makes everybody rich heck make the carbon tax 500 a ton we'll all be rich right 0.99

00:08:49.740 that's idiotic thinking that's childish thinking i would only insult children that's really silly 0.99

00:08:54.400 to think that because of course taxes don't make you richer and number two exactly to your point 1.00

00:09:00.060 if it's not financially punitive to use a substance

00:09:04.700 then how do they expect the use of that substance to be reduced

00:09:09.580 if it's not hurting you in your wallet so to speak as they try to say

00:09:13.540 and deterring you from using it then

00:09:16.600 what's the point of it right this is the whole argument right

00:09:20.260 with using paper or plastic bags right

00:09:22.700 or having a deposit on your pop can if it's a deterrent

00:09:26.520 to throw it in the garbage versus recycling it and getting your money back

00:09:30.440 that's how their thinking worked but the problem is is that's not how it worked out

00:09:35.220 in theory that's what they were trying to do for years

00:09:37.900 spoiler alert people still need to get to work they still need to eat they still need to heat their homes

00:09:42.380 and that is why even though canada has a carbon tax

00:09:46.060 our emissions continue to go up

00:09:48.740 even though british columbia has been the oldest jurisdiction with the carbon tax

00:09:53.140 for the longest time since 2008 their emissions nonetheless continue to rise steadily

00:10:00.120 because people use this as essential fuels

00:10:04.460 and so yeah it's not working because it's not reducing emissions

00:10:07.400 it's not working because now they're trying to spin this and saying

00:10:10.740 oh well it was only ever meant to make you richer anyway and here's a rebate

00:10:14.260 if that were true andrew

00:10:16.000 why did the trudeau government blink when it comes to atlantic canada

00:10:21.020 right they came out and admitted yes this is a financial burden

00:10:25.560 for people to pay a carbon tax on their home heating oil

00:10:29.180 which is largely used in atlantic canada

00:10:31.720 especially in places like nova scotia and prince edward island

00:10:34.860 why did they then come forward and say you know what

00:10:37.480 we're suspending the carbon tax but just on this fuel

00:10:40.540 and just for the next three years

00:10:42.600 like any way you slice it this is not working out for them

00:10:45.940 so explain to me where you think this is headed

00:10:50.900 because we we know that i mean correlation is not causation

00:10:54.900 but we know that poly other conservatives have been surging in the polls for months now

00:10:58.360 we know that if you could really attribute one policy to him

00:11:02.820 even if you're only a casual political observer

00:11:04.820 it's going to be axe the tax

00:11:06.620 so the conservatives have taken up getting rid of the carbon tax

00:11:09.700 as i'd say at this point anyway their flagship policy

00:11:12.320 that might not be the reason they're doing so well in the polls

00:11:15.320 but it certainly isn't hurting them

00:11:16.820 and i i think that again even people that were kind of okay with the carbon tax

00:11:20.720 have realized that in an inflationary economy

00:11:23.020 it's a it's a luxury item

00:11:24.720 it's okay maybe we maybe we could afford it in 2015

00:11:27.060 we can't afford the carbon tax now

00:11:29.160 but do you think that will remain in place

00:11:31.420 do you think that sentiment will remain

00:11:32.880 yeah i think so and exactly to your point

00:11:35.680 because people just can't afford things

00:11:37.340 so inflation is just astonishing

00:11:40.080 i haven't checked his math

00:11:42.040 but i would recommend people go look

00:11:44.120 i found him on instagram

00:11:45.360 there's a gentleman there

00:11:46.560 now again i have not gone in a deep dive and checked his math

00:11:49.140 but it looks generally correct

00:11:50.580 there's a gentleman that has like a walmart

00:11:52.960 kind of um a shopping cart

00:11:55.240 right i guess you can do that

00:11:56.560 i don't actually have the app

00:11:57.680 but apparently within the app

00:11:58.800 you can go back through your order history

00:12:00.760 and he shows it on the screen

00:12:02.680 and he shows that what he used to spend

00:12:05.180 around 100 i'm guessing around 180 dollars or so

00:12:08.360 back in 2015 he says

00:12:10.640 he's now spending around 400 dollars or so

00:12:14.360 on pretty much the same items

00:12:16.300 and so he was trying to point this out

00:12:18.280 he was just a regular guy

00:12:19.340 trying to point out what inflation is like here in canada

00:12:22.140 that was astonishing

00:12:23.020 and it really shows

00:12:24.700 like if anybody who's at the grocery store

00:12:26.540 who keeps an eye on their prices

00:12:27.720 realizes how much things are costing

00:12:29.280 add to that the price of fuel

00:12:31.200 and the price of housing

00:12:32.560 it's just astonishing for people

00:12:34.420 so yeah to your point

00:12:35.760 i do think that axing the tax

00:12:38.000 is going to continue to be a main driving force

00:12:41.180 with the popularity of any party

00:12:43.360 who wants to promote it by the way

00:12:45.100 and it's really interesting to see pierre poly

00:12:47.460 of and the conservatives

00:12:48.320 make a full 180

00:12:49.880 thank you very much

00:12:51.200 after that weird little flirtation

00:12:53.540 they had with their version of a carbon tax

00:12:55.620 so glad to see them on the right track

00:12:57.560 i will point out by the way

00:12:58.700 i just i saw that your audible

00:13:00.300 is now available for the pierre poly of book

00:13:02.840 so i just ordered it

00:13:04.080 i just ordered it on my phone

00:13:05.600 so i'll be listening to it this week

00:13:06.980 but to your point

00:13:07.820 i do think this is going to be a major issue

00:13:10.040 and i think it will continue to be a major issue

00:13:12.320 even if we have to wait for a year and a half

00:13:14.400 because i'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news

00:13:16.840 it's just going to get worse

00:13:18.400 because the trudeau government

00:13:19.900 they've got a massive deficit

00:13:21.660 they have no plans to ever balance the budget

00:13:23.800 they have no concept of money

00:13:25.680 and so like the budget fairy gods

00:13:28.320 are not going to descend upon canada

00:13:30.080 and just fix things

00:13:31.100 they have to balance the budget

00:13:32.560 and do smart things

00:13:33.480 and they're just refusing to do so

00:13:35.020 so yeah i do think that's going to be a centerpiece

00:13:37.180 very well said chris

00:13:39.960 now you might just be stuck with a view of chris right now

00:13:43.880 because my producer sean just told me his power went out

00:13:46.700 oh there we go i'm back

00:13:47.740 he switched to a hot spot there

00:13:50.120 so you might have had to just like pick up the show from there

00:13:52.260 because we couldn't switch cameras one way or another

00:13:55.440 oh be still by eating art

00:13:57.240 yes that uh is the book that's over my shoulder there

00:13:59.520 pierre polyev a political life

00:14:01.460 now available on audible ebooks kindle indigo amazon

00:14:04.920 it's available anywhere

00:14:05.780 so uh chris thank you so much

00:14:07.460 hope you enjoy the book

00:14:08.300 i will thanks andrew

00:14:09.740 thanks for listening to the andrew lawton show

00:14:11.940 support the program by donating to true north

00:14:14.500 at www.tnc.news

00:14:17.920 you

00:14:34.920 you

Juno News - July 06, 2024

Feds spend $1.7 million promoting carbon tax abroad

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