Five provinces are united in opposing Justin Trudeau's carbon tax in court.
Episode Stats
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Summary
A case that has galvanized much of the country against Justin Trudeau. A case that's complex, but it's one that has impact on the average Canadian's bottom line. And that's why I think it's been such an important thing to cover.
Transcript
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Good afternoon Canada, welcome to another True North Report. My name is Andrew
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Lawton Fellow with True North here to talk about a case that has quite
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surprisingly I think galvanized much of the country against Justin Trudeau and
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I say surprisingly because it is a topic that's in the weeds, it's a topic that's
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complex but it's one that has an impact on the average Canadian's bottom line
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which is why I think it's been such an important thing to cover and that is the
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federally imposed carbon tax that Justin Trudeau has steamrolled in and forced
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onto provinces that don't want it that actually have by definition eschewed
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carbon pricing schemes but the federal government looks to them and says no no
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no you're going to do it anyway because we told you so and this is a quite a
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fascinating time because when Justin Trudeau first put this forward just about
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two years ago there was just one opponent to it and that was the province of
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Saskatchewan then under the leadership of Brad Wall who was absolutely a
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tremendous premier in Saskatchewan and you fast forward two years later and Brad
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Wall's gone but there are actually five provinces that are united not just in
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opposing carbon taxing from the federal government with five provinces united in
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wanting to legally challenge the carbon tax and I'm not talking about tiny little
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rinky-dink provinces here but Ontario Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba and New
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Brunswick so five provinces and combined about I think it's about 65% of the
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population of the country that's in those provinces and they're not just saying
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you know we don't really like this whole carbon tax thing they're saying no no we're
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prepared to take Justin Trudeau to court over it and this process has already
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started a few weeks back Saskatchewan argued its case in front of the
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Saskatchewan court and two weeks ago or I guess a week and a half ago things
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wrapped up in Toronto at Osgoode Hall where the Ontario government argued its
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case and midway through that week-long hearing in Toronto the United
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Conservative Party in Alberta won the election one of Jason Kenney's promises is
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to use every legal tool at his disposal to fight Justin Trudeau's carbon tax which
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means Ontario and Saskatchewan will soon be joined by Alberta in launching its own
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legal challenge and yes Manitoba also arguing its own legal challenge against
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the government New Brunswick has taken the approach of we're just gonna let all
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these provinces do it but we support you and are intervening on your behalf the
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reason I list these is because it's a tremendous amount of support and it's
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all new these aren't just your typical sticks in the mud like people expect of
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Alberta these are provincial governments that have been newly and freshly
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elected in the last couple of years in part because they're prepared to say to
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their citizens you know what we're going to fight against taxes and fight
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against rising costs the federal government is imposing a taxes imposing a
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rising cost we're going to fight for you against them and Trudeau is left
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holding the gas can when this is all said and done and the reason I'm bringing
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this up now is because I was in the courtroom at Osgoode Hall in Toronto it
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was a four-day long hearing I was there for the entire thing and I'm not trying to
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speak ill of my colleagues in media but I was actually the only member of the
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media who was there for the entire thing I was the only member of the media
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that was there all four days let alone for every single part of every day of
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the hearing I didn't leave I barely ate and slept but it's okay because it was
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important and don't worry I got some meals and sleep in but here's the big
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problem in Canada right now is that the battles that were waging in the
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courtrooms in Saskatchewan and Ontario and soon in Alberta are to the average
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Canadian completely foreign most people aren't paying attention to it the reason I
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was there is because it was tremendously important to me and to true north and I
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think to a lot of the viewers of true north content that we shine a light on
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what it is that's actually at stake and we were very fortunate we crowdfunded this we
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don't get the 1.3 billion dollars from the federal government the CBC does we're
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not getting a piece of the federal government 600 million dollar media
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bailout fund everything we do is from people donating 25 35 50 dollars at a time and
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that was how I went to the carbon tax trial we said to the viewers of true
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north look we want to do this here's how much it's going to cost and people very
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generously donated one person I sent a private note I don't know if he wants to
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be named so I will respect just in case he doesn't but donated a thousand
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dollars to doing this and it was tremendous we're very grateful for that
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but the reason is because the federal government in this case is trying to
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rewrite the rules of how the federal government is allowed to govern that's
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what they're doing Justin Trudeau had his lawyer arguing before the Court of
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Appeal for Ontario basically to give the federal government license to trample on
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provincial rights because they say climate change is the biggest danger
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that's facing Canada and this is not just dangerous because it would give them
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license to Steve roll ahead with this carbon tax but it's dangerous because it
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would give the federal government the right to trample on your and my rights
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because they say that they don't like the way the provincial governments are
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doing things and that's what's happening here the federal government has its
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approach to carbon pricing they want to put a price on carbon they think this is
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going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and by extension curb climate
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change and by extension meet Canada's UN commitments fine that's what they
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think but when provincial governments are not playing ball the federal
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government goes in and says okay well we're going to put a carbon tax on you
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anyway and this is what happened I live in Ontario as you know Ontario got rid of
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the cap-and-trade program the previous liberal government put into effect and
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what does the federal government do on April 1st impose a carbon tax jacking fuel
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prices up and I know that there's a natural fluctuation in this but I filled up my
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gas tank and it was a dollar forty a dollar forty a liter and I don't live in
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British Columbia thank goodness where they've seen the impacts of carbon
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taxing to such an extent that I think it's like up over a dollar or seventy
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something in BC but the whole point of this is that even if not every increase
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in gas prices can be linked to a carbon tax the carbon tax adds further strain on
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Canadians who rely on fuel which I would actually challenge you to come up with a
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single Canadian who's not impacted by that even someone who lives in downtown
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Toronto and walks to work and drinks organic free-range you know green fred
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soy lattes or whatever is still reliant on fuel to do everything that they're
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doing the coffee they pick up at their coffee shop the food they order the all of
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these things rely on fuel and it's why the carbon tax is in fact a tax on
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everything but the federal government refuses to admit that it is a tax and
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this was something that I wanted to go live today to explain because I realized
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that this gets very in the weeds and it's not always the most interesting thing
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but I was at the carbon tax trial and I heard the arguments from the federal
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government and the provincial government and the federal government is
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trying to I would say hoodwink Canadians into thinking that something's
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happening that isn't actually happening they do not believe that the carbon tax
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is a tax they believe that a price on carbon is different than a tax on carbon
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and the reason why is because it is and this is the federal government's lawyers
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position because it's meant to change behavior so of the few key questions one
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of them was is it a tax or is it a regulatory charge and if it's a tax and this was
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argued by the Canadian Taxpayers Federation this was argued by the Ontario
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government this was argued by the Saskatchewan government the federal
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government is allowed to impose a tax without any real issues but if it's going
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to do that it has to put forward a tax in a clear transparent and
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constitutional way you can't put a tax in through a back door you've got to call
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it a tax and you've got to say you we hereby proclaim a tax or whatever the
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wording is but they've got to be honest about it and say this is a tax that the
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federal government is enacting that Parliament is enacting and they didn't
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do that they did not do that with the carbon price what they did is say no no
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no this is a regulatory charge but with that there are some other rules attached
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to it and one of them is that you've got to use the money you raise to actually
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advance the scheme to run the regulatory charge whereas what the federal
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government has done is taken the money levied through the carbon tax and tried
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to basically bribe Canadians I should have actually brought it over here but I
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got it my in my mailbox that little climate action incentive postcard where
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the federal government is trying to say we're gonna give you this much money
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because of the carbon tax and one of the points that was argued by the
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government of Ontario's lawyer was that you can't say that this is helping
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emissions or anything when you could use that climate action incentive rebate to
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do something that is terrible for the environment you could take it and say I'm
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gonna put it towards a payment on my Hummer you could take it and say I'm gonna
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just buy a bunch of fuel and light it on fire you could use that for pretty much
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anything you want but it's a general bribe and regardless of how much carbon you
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use how many emissions you're responsible for everyone in Canada in Ontario is
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getting the same amount of rebate because it's depending on where they
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live and not what they actually do and the carbon price is punitive but the
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heartbreaking part of it is that a great majority of people do not have the
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ability to live any less reliant a life on carbon and I want to read a couple of
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comments here on this Brenda says hi Andrew well hi Brenda thanks for tuning in
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Steve O'Halloran has joined hey Steve thanks for tuning in here Cheryl writes
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there is no way I can change my behavior to be more carbon neutral this is key this
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is absolutely key now I use myself as an example right now because I don't drive
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that lot a lot I work from home I fly a lot I travel a lot for work and the
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airlines have to pass along the rising cost of fuel to consumers no company is
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going to eat a cost they have to pass it on so there is a reason that I travel when I
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have to cover the carbon tax case I need to be in Toronto when I'm going over to
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the United Kingdom in a couple of weeks to cover a case I have to fly there I
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can't do that so that money gets paid for by me or by whoever it is for whom I'm
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working when I travel and I need to send that bill so this is not something that I can choose to do
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less of and maybe I could choose a different career fine but let's take a
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trucker who lives in Ottawa long-distance trucker who is responsible for you know
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picking up the oranges that are sent to a distribution center somewhere and
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driving them to a distribution center in Ottawa where another trucker will pick
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them up and bring them to grocery stores well if you want an orange in
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downtown Ottawa there is no way to get it that doesn't involve that orange being
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flown from Florida driven from the cargo hold to the distribution center driven
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from that dis I mean the list goes on of all of these things if he's a self
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employed trucker he can't eat that cost he's got to pay the carbon tax he's got
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to pass along to the grocery stores who pass along to the consumer and someone
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who lives in downtown Toronto that has a minuscule carbon footprint has to pay that
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carbon tax just because they want an orange and I'm sorry but not everyone is
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going to be growing these things in a greenhouse on the roof of your downtown
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Toronto condo so the whole point of this is that it is punitive it's not meant to
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curb behavior because a lot of people do not have the luxury of being able to
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change the behaviors that the government is trying to change and this is why this
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whole idea that the federal government has put forward they don't know it's a
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regulatory charge because we're trying to encourage people to live differently what
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the government is arguing in court under oath is that they are attempting to
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manipulate Canadians that's what this whole thing is it is an effort by the
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federal government to manipulate Canadians into behaving the way the
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federal government wants you to behave irrespective of science and
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irrespective of the cost that this approach has when it comes to the
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environment Brenda writes they want us all on transit but you certainly won't see
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Trudeau taking the subway bus etc no and look I realize that as the Prime
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Minister we don't necessarily want him waiting on the subway line or the LRT
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line but Brenda raises an important point here which is that we just learned
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in the last few days that Trudeau has been spending tens of thousands of
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dollars in special flights to go on vacations and releasing I don't know the
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exact number but a monumental amount of greenhouse gas emissions into the
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environment which he doesn't have to do he could say we're gonna take all our
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vacations in Gatineau we're gonna take all our vacations within the walking
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distance of Rideau cottage but no he says look I want to fly here he has that right
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he has the ability to do that that is part of the things about living in a free
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country that I love but he has the gall to do that well lecturing every other
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Canadian about the need to rein in what they're responsible for when it comes to
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emissions into the environment and that is such a tremendous
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hip a tremendous hypocrisy here that I think Trudeau is somehow being given a pass
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on by his supporters and Catherine McKenna same sort of thing so I bring this
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around to the arguments at foot in the case and that is predominantly that the
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federal government says no no no this isn't a tax this is a regulatory charge
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the provincial government says no the other dimension of this that I want to
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share and I'm going to apologize in advance if this comes across as
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excessively boring but it is important because this is when I talked about the
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federal government trying to rewrite the rules of federal governance what it is to
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which I'm referring there is a things and the federal government is able to do
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other things in those lists of things that the federal government does being
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able to impose a carbon tax on provinces is not listed there is no reason that the
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federal government should be doing this Ontario argues the federal government
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argues that it is allowed to do so under one particular branch of the
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Constitution and this is under the doctrine that's called POG peace order and
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good government there's a section about national concern doctrine or the
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national concern branch if an issue is deemed of national concern the federal
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government is able to legislate on it even if it trumps provincial
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jurisdiction and the issue of national concern the government argues is that
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greenhouse gas emissions are a national concern so the federal government does
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actually actually believe that it has the right to regulate greenhouse gas emissions
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because provinces can't but clearly provinces can and I look at Ontario as a
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fascinating example of this Ontario has believe it or not reduced emissions in the last 15 years by
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22 percent the target set out by the federal government is 30 percent so
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Ontario has already gotten a significant way to the 30 percent target that the
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federal government was the one that set and a big part of this was because of
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the phase-out of coal-fired electricity generation but Ontario has been a leader in
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this and this is something that you can look back to the Kathleen Wynne and Dalton
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McGinty governments whether you like them or not this is something they did so
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Ontario is already ahead of the pack here and one of the judges of the Court of
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Appeal for Ontario actually asked the federal lawyer look Ontario is getting
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already to 30 percent we've 20 percent so far why does it need to be a carbon
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tax if they can get there another way why does it need to be a price on carbon
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that you impose on them and there was no really good answer all she said as well
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we're not here to talk about what the best way is we're here just to talk about the
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fact that yes they need to do it and the federal government has the right to
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make it happen so I find this to be very disingenuous by the federal
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government I'll explain why because if the federal government succeeds in saying
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that it has the right to regulate greenhouse gas emissions because of
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national concern then the federal government would have the right to
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regulate everything that causes greenhouse gas emissions under the same
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license and this is not my own conspiracy theory this is a theory that
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was advanced by the court this was a theory that was advanced by the Ontario
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government's lawyer by Saskatchewan government's lawyer and by a number of
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legal scholars that it would give the federal government the ability to say you
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have to ban wood stoves in the province of Manitoba you have to stop heating your home on
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above you know 22 degrees in the province of Ontario you can't drive your
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cars on weekends or weekdays between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m. in the province of
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British Columbia because these things all cause greenhouse gas emissions which
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we think are an issue of national concern again this is not me just
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conjecturing or speculating this is an argument that was put forward by the
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court and by lawyers in the court saying if you're going to claim that greenhouse
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gas emissions are a national concern how can you not then be justified in
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restricting outside of your mandate everything that causes them and all the
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federal government's lawyer could say was well we that won't happen really so
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the federal government's position I just want to make this very clear is just
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trust us that is the federal government's claim that we can just trust that it
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will limit itself and she actually at one point said the lawyer who again she's
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doing her job she's a lawyer she is not the problem here it's her client that's
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the problem but she had said well you know the legislation in the future can be
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self-limiting this was effectively the federal government's argument and what
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was that old Ronald Reagan line the you know the most terrifying words in the
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English language I'm from the government and I'm here to help well just trust us I'd
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say is right behind that or at least at the same level here Randy writes I don't
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know why BC gas is going up if they already had a carbon tax well Randy I'm
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glad you mentioned that so gas naturally fluctuates and we're dealing with a
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period where there's a great deal of instability in this but my point is that
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the carbon tax further adds the carbon tax further adds on these burdens I mean
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yeah the price of gas in BC is ridiculous but the carbon tax has made it even
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more ridiculous and untenable Sherry writes Trudeau can fly anywhere while
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being a hypocrite on top of the carbon emission from his multiple personal
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vacations and jets and RCMP protection and lavish expenses carbon tax is a tax
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grab and nothing else I hope here in Alberta Jason Kenney will repeal it well the
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good news is he's already pledged to a premier designate Jason Kenney who I've got a
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great deal of time and respect for has said that he won't only get rid of the
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Alberta carbon tax he'll also fight the federal carbon tax but this is the
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challenge here is that the second that he repeals the Alberta federal carbon or
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the Alberta carbon tax the federal carbon tax goes into effect so Trudeau will
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once again be imposing on a province that doesn't want it and doesn't need it a
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carbon tax Bob writes this country has no mass transit that allows rural people to
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travel about other than their cars or trucks this will destroy any tourism to
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cottage country in Ontario if people cannot afford to travel I'm retired and
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trust me my pension has not increased anywhere close to what my expenses are
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going up I drive a car and that is getting too expensive yeah and this is one
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of the big things Bob and I thank you for that that came about in Prince Edward
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Island now PEI had its election last week the PCs won but remember the PCs and
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PEI are not particularly conservative it's just not a conservative province it's a
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lot more community focused and tight-knit and I'm not saying the
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conservatism is at odds with community but just that the dynamic is different
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than it is anywhere else so the provincial government called in the
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election the carbon tax the tax grab but now is saying they have no interest in
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fighting it and again no offense to PEI one of our great writers at true north
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lives in PEI I'm not objecting to the province itself but it's not the hugest
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deal when it comes to the impact that PEI has on policy nationwide but again one
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point that I found interesting from the premier designate of PEI premier
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designate King is that he's saying well you know okay we're not gonna fight the
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federal government but we want the federal government to be more respectful of the
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PEI dynamic and that we don't have any province-wide transit we have cars we
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have cut that's the only way to get around there so his argument I think is
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kind of undercutting his own point which is that the federal imposed imposition of
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a carbon tax doesn't respect local provinces can find their own solutions and
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local provinces can have their own dynamics that are not respected by this and
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Janelle writes yeah trust in government don't go together put that on a bumper
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sticker Janelle because it's never gonna be less true at all and you know it's
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funny Janelle and Randy are both saying we need out of the UN and and I want to
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talk about the UN here because it was quite dangerous and I'd say quite
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terrifying that during the federal carbon tax or during the provincial carbon tax
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hearing in court in Toronto a couple of weeks ago the federal government kept
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utilizing its UN targets its Paris Climate Accords targets as being part of
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the rationale for why the federal carbon tax has to be protected this this is what
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they were doing they were saying oh well no no but it's important because we have
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these these climate targets we put to the UN and no we need to meet these climate
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targets we this is the act and the compact if you will that was said to
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Canadians to be non-binding and now it's being used as the basis in court for
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imposing top-down taxing on Canadians so this is again when we talked about the UN
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migration compact and people like Candace Malcolm and Anthony Fury and myself
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were saying no no they say non-binding don't believe it this is how because yes it
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might be non-binding but then it becomes the baseline for government to do other
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things that are binding because they say oh well we've got to make good on this
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and we've got to meet this compact and this promise and this pledge and this
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accord and all of that and as Steve O'Halloran points out here Trudeau is more
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interested in winning friends and favor and winning a seat at the United Nations
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the unit that he isn't making sure that Canadians are being looked after by their
00:24:26.160
government and if you want proof of this look at the fact that there were five
00:24:30.120
now six provinces in Canada seven provinces actually with a conservative
00:24:34.980
government right across you've got BC which doesn't count because it's just BC
00:24:39.660
they're always crazy over there and you've got Alberta conservative
00:24:43.660
Saskatchewan conservative Manitoba conservative Ontario conservative Quebec
00:24:48.240
conservative New Brunswick PEI there's seven you've got one of the
00:24:52.920
territories as well that's more conservative in nature though
00:24:56.280
technically independent you've got a Newfoundland election coming up soon
00:25:00.060
which I don't know which way it's gonna go but again even on the carbon tax
00:25:04.860
alone you went from one province Saskatchewan a couple of years ago to now
00:25:10.140
five and a half that are against the Prime Minister on this and this is what
00:25:15.220
happens when Canadians feel like Trudeau is more interested at focusing on the UN
00:25:20.820
and you know the big giant save the world stuff than on actual governance and
00:25:27.060
let me tell you the problem with this I live in London Ontario and I haven't
00:25:32.040
really been here much in the last couple of months but I'm here now back for a
00:25:35.520
couple of weeks and you know it's a great city the council that we just
00:25:39.900
elected is a lot better than the council we had before but I was quite upset that
00:25:45.300
when I came back from covering the carbon tax trial I learned that my city council
00:25:51.180
had voted to declare a state of emergency because of climate change
00:25:58.980
yes this is I mean this is it my city voted I think it was what was the number
00:26:05.680
it was 13 no 12 to 3 there are 15 members of council including the mayor and they
00:26:10.920
voted 12 to 3 to declare a climate change emergency in the city and I think
00:26:16.140
Montreal did this as well I think Ottawa may have done this a couple of other
00:26:19.080
cities have done it and firstly it's completely baseless useless virtue
00:26:25.140
signaling that does nothing secondly if there's an emergency what are you doing
00:26:31.300
about and this is the whole thing is that if there is actually an emergency how
00:26:34.800
dare you drive a car if there's actually an emergency how dare you buy food and
00:26:39.360
products that have been imported there's an emergency because all of the
00:26:42.740
people that say it's an emergency are complete and utter hypocrites you get a
00:26:46.880
couple you get a couple that are genuinely good honest non-hypocritical
00:26:52.760
people you know I know someone who is actually a lovely wonderful person
00:26:57.220
she's committed to a zero waste lifestyle she emits in her life zero waste she
00:27:03.180
buys things that have only been reused she grows a lot of stuff she makes a lot of
00:27:07.980
stuff obviously she's got some footprint but for the most part she's leading by
00:27:12.900
example and I've got a lot more respect for that than I do for the people that
00:27:17.640
like Prince Charles or Leo DiCaprio get off their private jets to tell everyone
00:27:21.780
else they have to change then get back on the jet and go to their second house or
00:27:26.100
Justin Trudeau who you know takes a plane trip my favorite was the day that he went
00:27:30.780
from Ottawa to Toronto and back I think twice in a day and then the next day did it
00:27:35.760
again and he tells us oh no no it's you know the family of four in the minivan
00:27:41.400
that's causing all the problems so the people that are genuinely leading by
00:27:46.620
example in their lives by the way are not the ones telling everyone else what to do
00:27:50.940
the people telling everyone else what to do are these climate hypocrite hucksters
00:27:56.100
that are declaring a state of emergency in a municipal government and by the way
00:28:01.440
there are good people that vote for these motions because they feel they have to I'm
00:28:04.880
talking about the people that are aggressively driving this agenda and it
00:28:08.780
all ultimately leads back to people like Justin Trudeau and Catherine McKenna
00:28:13.280
saying ah but the UN and when I heard the federal government citing the
00:28:18.020
supposedly non-binding Paris climate accord in court as being a reason that the
00:28:24.260
federal carbon tax must be declared constitutional it was an example of just
00:28:29.500
how deeply ingrained that flawed mindset is that is being used to trample on
00:28:35.740
provincial jurisdiction and by extension to trample on individual Canadians rights
00:28:40.960
and this is only going to get worse which is why I'm glad that we've got five
00:28:47.740
provinces that are linking arms and fighting back the resistance as Maclean's
00:28:51.940
called it is now stronger and it may well be that the carbon tax dies in the
00:28:57.500
election in October before it dies in court because remember it's also got to
00:29:01.400
go through and become a Supreme Court case so we're not looking at a short-term
00:29:05.600
battle here in the eyes of what's happening in court so I bring all of this
00:29:10.520
up so you understand exactly why it was important to cover it and what the stakes
00:29:14.480
truly are on this and I want to again give a big thank you to our donors who
00:29:19.220
supported that coverage we're gonna be doing more special crowdfunding projects in
00:29:23.960
the future because it is like I said the way that a small group like the true
00:29:28.400
north center and the true north initiative can be able to do these
00:29:32.240
things so I thank you for that if you want to outside of a specific project
00:29:36.020
support what we're doing head on over to TNC dot news and click donate you get a
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00:29:45.980
Andrew Lawton Heritage Club and support the work that I'm doing here but in the
00:29:49.760
meantime my thanks to all of you for tuning in for your comments we'll talk to you soon
00:29:53.420
Canada thank you God bless and good day to you all