Juno News - Food bank use SURGES as Carney unveils grocery rebate

00:00:00.000 After 10 months of doing nothing about rising grocery prices, Prime Minister Carney has

00:00:09.420 announced measures aimed at easing the affordability crunch. It won't come cheap.

00:00:13.740 His government will spend almost $10 billion to increase the GST credit for five years.

00:00:21.280 The benefit could save a family of four almost $1,900 this year.

00:00:25.940 This is money that goes to individuals. This is money that goes to individuals.

00:00:30.000 It goes directly to individuals. It's not based on what they spend. It's not tied here.

00:00:34.320 Now, the fact, and they can spend that money on anything they want, as Canada, it's a free country.

00:00:39.900 They spend it on anything they want, as they should.

00:00:42.320 Lower-income Canadians, as you know, spend more of their, a higher share of their income on food and rent.

00:00:51.320 So they're more likely to spend it on food, but there's no differentiation.

00:00:55.940 There are also plans to direct millions of dollars more to tackle supply chain issues and money for food banks.

00:01:02.580 Not everyone was impressed to this social media post by the food professor,

00:01:07.620 breaking Prime Minister Carney to announce more GST credits today in a grocery store.

00:01:13.940 Great. But instead of spending more cash, which risks inflating food prices even more,

00:01:20.420 why not cut the GST on food altogether?

00:01:23.380 A GST cut would lower prices at the checkout immediately for all Canadians, not just some,

00:01:29.700 not later, not via bureaucracy.

00:01:33.220 2.2 million Canadians visit food banks every month.

00:01:37.140 25% of Canadians are facing food insecurity and one-third of them are children.

00:01:43.780 Inflation in Canada is running hotter than in every other G7 nation.

00:01:49.780 Carney also responded to online attacks from President Trump.

00:01:54.660 On the weekend, Trump threatened to slap 100% tariffs on Canadian imports

00:01:59.220 if Canada moved ahead with a trade deal with China.

00:02:03.860 Carney also dismissed Trump's insults and name-calling as a negotiating ploy.

00:02:09.700 Since your speech in Davos, we've had Donald Trump threaten fresh tariffs

00:02:15.860 on Canada if we cut a deal with China.

00:02:17.940 He's rescinded your invitation to the Board of Peace.

00:02:20.820 He started calling you governor like he did your predecessor.

00:02:23.780 I'd like to know what you think about all that,

00:02:25.620 and what impact you think your speech had on Canada-U.S. relations.

00:02:31.300 Well, I think the first thing is that my comments in Davos

00:02:36.260 laid out how we see the world, a recognition of how the world has changed.

00:02:40.580 We are entering soon a negotiation or review formally of KUSMA,

00:02:48.820 our agreement, as you know, with the United States and Mexico.

00:02:51.860 The president is a strong negotiator, and I think some of these comments

00:02:57.460 and positioning should be viewed in the broader context.

00:03:00.180 Our guest today is Neil Hetherington.

00:03:01.940 He is CEO of the Daily Bread Food Bank, and you can find the Daily Bread Food Bank

00:03:07.700 at Highway 2427 and Lakeshore Road.

00:03:10.900 Welcome to the show, Neil.

00:03:11.860 Neil Hetherington It's great to be here.

00:03:13.460 Thanks so much, Mark.

00:03:14.180 It's a snowy day, so there doesn't appear to be a whole lot of people behind you.

00:03:19.620 Neil Hetherington Well, there's not a lot of activity inside the warehouse

00:03:24.260 that I'm situated in right now.

00:03:26.100 But unfortunately, a lot of activity in the food bank.

00:03:29.380 The food bank, despite the fact that we're closed,

00:03:33.060 people have been coming on a steady basis

00:03:36.740 to get the food that they need for their families.

00:03:39.220 Neil Hetherington Yeah, and these people need help.

00:03:41.620 I mean, food security amongst 25% of Canadians, a third of them being children.

00:03:47.060 I mean, the statistics are grim.

00:03:49.540 2.2 million people a month visiting places like yours.

00:03:55.540 What goes through your mind when you see those numbers?

00:03:57.300 Neil Hetherington Well, obviously, I'm saddened

00:04:01.460 for the individuals that need to come and make use of food charity.

00:04:05.860 Nobody in a country as rich and as wonderful as Canada is,

00:04:09.620 should have to make use of charity in order to get by.

00:04:13.380 Neil Hetherington But that's not the case.

00:04:15.940 And here in Toronto, now one in 10 Torontonians has to make use of the food bank.

00:04:21.300 Neil Hetherington We feed one in 10.

00:04:22.740 330,000 people every single month are getting their food from the Daily Bread Food Bank.

00:04:28.340 Neil Hetherington And so I'm saddened by it,

00:04:31.140 but I'm also angered by it because it doesn't have to be that way.

00:04:34.260 Neil Hetherington We know that there are policy solutions out there

00:04:36.980 that can change what we see on the ground every single day.

00:04:40.340 Neil Hetherington Well, to that point,

00:04:42.580 we do have an announcement today, which I'm sure you've heard from the Prime Minister,

00:04:47.540 talking about measures aimed at easing the affordability issue.

00:04:51.540 The government's going to spend almost 10 billion over the next five years to

00:04:56.660 increase the GST credit.

00:04:58.980 Do you think these measures will help?

00:05:00.660 Neil Hetherington Well, they certainly are going to help.

00:05:04.100 Neil Hetherington We talk about three things that have to be done in order to

00:05:08.260 to reduce food bank usage across Canada.

00:05:10.660 Neil Hetherington The first one is build affordable housing.

00:05:12.660 Neil Hetherington And so there has been significant announcements

00:05:15.220 when it comes to the build Canada homes projects and 13 billion dollars there.

00:05:21.380 Neil Hetherington The second thing is around income supports.

00:05:23.540 Neil Hetherington And so you look at the new Canada disability benefit.

00:05:26.820 Neil Hetherington So targeted benefits to people that can't derive their income from employment.

00:05:31.700 Neil Hetherington And the GST credit

00:05:33.940 you know, remember, that's simply a reimbursement for what those folks have been paying in GST.

00:05:39.540 So what the Prime Minister is doing is providing a bit of a top up, a 25% lift,

00:05:45.300 so that that will provide some benefit to those Canadians.

00:05:49.700 It's targeted, it's increased appropriately.

00:05:53.140 But remember, you know, the increase is 25%.

00:05:55.860 But the vast majority of it is what those individuals have already paid in a tax.

00:06:00.340 Neil Hetherington Some people like the food professor,

00:06:02.820 Dr. Charlebois says that he would welcome just a reduction in the GST altogether,

00:06:08.420 just cut GST on food. Now, some people think, well, there is no real tax on food, but

00:06:14.020 well, you look at the bill, this seems to be a tax on food.

00:06:18.020 Neil Hetherington Well, I mean, I understand his point, it's much more straightforward, but we don't pay a lot

00:06:25.700 of GST on food, as you already said. But the other thing is, it's targeted. And this credit is going to

00:06:34.260 the most vulnerable in our society. You know, I have many friends who don't need that reimbursement,

00:06:42.180 who don't need that tax credit. And yet, every single day, I work with thousands of individuals

00:06:46.820 who do. And so my hope is that we can be very targeted in how we are approaching things,

00:06:53.380 and not just doing a blanket benefit for all Canadians, because that, as we know, spurs

00:06:57.940 inflation and does not have the intended social policy outcome that we hope for.

00:07:04.180 And the fact that they can spend that money on really anything they want, does that give you

00:07:10.980 reason for pause at all? I mean, they're not being restricted in terms of where they can spend the money?

00:07:16.340 Not at all. You know, there's a study that was done by MasterCard, the MasterCard Foundation,

00:07:23.380 and North York Harvest. And it talked about that same sort of concern. What happens if you give an

00:07:29.700 individual on a low income additional funds? Do they go out and buy cigarettes and booze and lottery

00:07:35.700 tickets? You know, those things that, you know, we used to, many people still, but we used to worry

00:07:40.580 about. And the answer is no, they don't. What they do is they buy the food that they need.

00:07:46.020 They pay for the TTC. They pay for transportation that they need. They pay for housing. And so,

00:07:53.380 no, I don't worry about that in the least.

00:07:56.500 Well, that's good. I mean, organizations like Earth presumably are going to see some money

00:08:01.700 allotted. I think 20 million has been allocated towards food banks. I guess that must be good

00:08:08.340 news for you or not.

00:08:10.260 Well, those funds won't actually come directly to food banks. They'll come to the systems that,

00:08:16.660 you know, the transportation systems and that type of thing to make the mobility of food 0.95

00:08:22.180 easier. It hasn't been worked out. But the bottom line is actually, we don't accept government money.

00:08:28.020 Here at the Daily Bread Food Bank, we have a policy not to accept government money.

00:08:32.100 And we're quite intentional about that. And there's two reasons for it. The first is,

00:08:37.620 it allows us to have an honest conversation with politicians. You know, I speak on a regular basis

00:08:42.100 with the mayor and the premier about what we see at the food bank here in Toronto. And if I was

00:08:49.060 getting government funding, I might be hesitant in terms of giving them the full fact. I might be

00:08:54.180 hesitant in terms of criticizing certain policies that are out there. And by being free of, by not

00:09:00.100 accepting government funding, we can have an honest conversation. The second thing is, when you look at

00:09:05.380 why people need food banks, because of a lack of affordable housing, or a lack of, say, disability

00:09:11.460 incomes, if you're on disability, you receive $1,400 a month, I would much rather they take that

00:09:17.700 the $20 million and put somebody's income not at $1,400, but at $2,400, which is the poverty line.

00:09:26.740 Because that will result in fewer people needing the food bank. So let's not have government fund

00:09:32.180 food banks. Let's make sure that we create the systems so that nobody needs a food bank. 0.95

00:09:37.780 In terms of people who do need the food bank, I imagine you get people from all walks of life,

00:09:45.300 obviously those who have trouble financially. Do you get a lot of non-Canadians coming there, 0.98

00:09:51.380 do you think, or not? Yeah. When the international students exploded in terms of the number of

00:09:59.860 international students, Canada had about 800,000 international students, and those students were

00:10:04.260 duped by our government. Those students were told, you only need $10,000 a year to survive in Canada,

00:10:10.660 $800 a month. And they were told they can only work some 15, 20 hours per month. So there's no way

00:10:18.900 that you can make ends meet with that $800 that you saved up before you came to Canada, and being

00:10:25.460 allowed to supplement your income with 20 hours worth of employment per month. And so at that point,

00:10:31.620 we did see an influx of students coming to food banks because they needed the food bank.

00:10:38.100 The government subsequently did an about-face. They did a 180 on that, and they said, listen,

00:10:43.300 we need to have an immigration program that is appropriate, that is scalable, where we know that

00:10:49.140 there is going to be housing, where we know the person coming to Canada has at minimum now not

00:10:55.220 $10,000 per year, but about $22,000 per year. So we've seen a tremendous decrease in those direct

00:11:05.300 numbers just since that policy change came into force a year ago, June.

00:11:12.260 What about refugee claimants, asylum seekers, that sort of thing?

00:11:16.580 Yeah. At the same time, Mark Miller made significant changes on that front. And so

00:11:21.940 we've seen the outcome of that. By and large, individuals who are coming to food banks have

00:11:28.260 been in the country more than 10 years. They are permanent residents. The thing that's really

00:11:33.940 alarming, Mark, is the fact that, and this is the really troubling one, the fastest growing group of

00:11:40.340 individuals coming to food banks are between 19 and 44 years old, 60% have a post-secondary education,

00:11:48.900 and 50% of them have full-time employment, and yet they still can't make ends meet.

00:11:54.260 And that to me is incredibly troubling. Like where that social contract we used to have,

00:11:59.060 you know, growing up, I was always told if you go to school, you get a job, you work hard, you'll be

00:12:04.020 fine. That isn't true anymore. And that to me is really very troubling for our country.

00:12:10.340 Well, do you see people driving in with like new BMWs and Audis and, you know,

00:12:18.740 I mean, I only ask because there might be some people who are in debt, you know, because they

00:12:24.660 made purchases. And then at the end of the day, they find themselves short on money for food,

00:12:32.180 you know? Yeah, no, we don't see that. Just think about like the tremendous burden it is to cross the

00:12:38.820 threshold of a food bank doorway and say, I need to get three days worth of food. And the hit to ego,

00:12:46.740 the hit to your sense of, you know, pride that you might have. So we don't, we certainly don't,

00:12:56.740 we don't see that. I mean, but I think to your question though, and maybe the underlying is,

00:13:01.460 are there individuals who come to the food bank who don't need the food bank? And I think that that's,

00:13:05.460 you know, I get asked that from time to time. I don't see it. We have a rigorous process to go

00:13:13.060 through in terms of registration and that type of thing. But I think it'd be naive. And I think

00:13:18.980 it's naive of any charity to say that there isn't individuals who you take advantage. And the question

00:13:25.300 is, is it scale? Is it, is it of significance? And the answer to that is an unqualified no.

00:13:33.380 For 10 months, which Prime Minister Carney has been in his position, including the election, plus the time

00:13:42.340 that he took over a leader of his party and then became prime minister. Now we have some focus on this.

00:13:48.580 I mean, to what degree has it become a political issue? Do you see that perhaps with some talk of

00:13:54.740 an election coming that, I mean, the prime minister, the liberal party saw a real important need to

00:14:01.460 shore up support amongst those whom in the age group that you mentioned are among those that frequent

00:14:09.860 the Daily Bread? Well, I hope that it's a political issue. And certainly my name and the Daily Bread

00:14:17.620 stats and our research are cited in the House of Commons almost on a weekly basis. And they're cited

00:14:23.780 both by the leader of the opposition as well as the government. And I appreciate that. That means that

00:14:30.180 there is a dialogue and there is a recognition that we have a fundamental problem in our country.

00:14:35.940 I mean, growing up, I don't know if it's your experience, but it certainly was my experience,

00:14:41.940 that food bank usage always seemed to be on the fringe. It was never somebody that you knew.

00:14:48.100 At least in my case, I didn't know folks who needed to make use of the food bank. And now I do.

00:14:54.580 You know, I'll give you an example. I met a person in media who is a producer and that individual,

00:15:01.380 you know, went to school, has a job, has a job with benefits, and they're making about $50,000 a year.

00:15:07.300 And I saw them in line at the food bank. And you question, is that appropriate? And then,

00:15:12.980 and so we had a conversation and she talked about the fact that she has two children and she pays

00:15:17.620 about $2,200 a month in rent. So with that, $2,200 a month, $50,000 after tax is $36,000. You got your

00:15:28.580 rental payments. That left her $500 a month to feed the three of them. The average Canadian eats about

00:15:35.300 $360 to $390 per month in food. And so already she's underwater and she hasn't paid for clothes

00:15:44.180 for her kids. She hasn't paid for transportation. And so you can see how frustrating it is that

00:15:49.140 somebody with what we would consider or used to be a decent income can't sort of get by. And so I am

00:15:56.180 glad that it is a topic of conversation and I just want to make it a topic of action. I want to see

00:16:04.420 things like additional housing being built. I want to see income supports increase,

00:16:11.140 like the Canada disability benefit, which target specific individuals who are legislated to live

00:16:18.100 in deep poverty. I am still, I'm maddened by the fact that in Ontario, you get $1,400 a month for,

00:16:26.020 if you're on disability and the poverty line is $2,400. How in good God's name,

00:16:31.140 do we expect somebody making $1,400 a month who is in that vulnerable category to be able to thrive

00:16:37.460 in their community? They can't. Worse than that, you would have seen the same homeless individual

00:16:44.340 out on the street month after month, year after year. You start to recognize the same face.

00:16:50.740 In those cases, if they find themselves unhoused, the government says, since you're not paying rent,

00:16:57.300 that $1,400 is now going to be $700. So how do you expect a homeless individual on disability with

00:17:04.260 a mental health crisis or a mental health issue to be able to get first and last month's rent

00:17:10.180 while only having $700 a month to survive on? You can't. No matter how significant and how educated

00:17:18.180 you are, you cannot save that first and last month's rent in order to get back into a house situation.

00:17:24.260 So we have a whole host of policy issues. I've dragged on to your original question is,

00:17:29.060 is this a political issue? The answer is yes. It's also a political solution.

00:17:34.340 So if it becomes an election issue, you're fine with that?

00:17:37.780 I want it to be an election issue. Absolutely. Every election, I want people to be talking about

00:17:42.260 the most vulnerable in our country. And I'm glad that it doesn't matter which party,

00:17:48.020 they are talking about it now. And more importantly, I am hopeful that that we can,

00:17:54.180 through policy alternatives, give them the policy frameworks to be able to walk back from the limb

00:18:00.340 that collectively we as a nation, as a country and as a city are on.

00:18:05.700 Of course, you also have the people who are suffering from substance abuse issues. And Canada

00:18:12.020 has kind of liberalized its drug policies to such a degree that that may have meant that more people

00:18:18.820 had access to drugs of one type or other. Talk about illegal drugs, hard drugs, that sort of thing.

00:18:24.580 Do you see much of that playing into the services you provide?

00:18:30.180 We don't really. Most of the individuals that we serve have some type of housing.

00:18:35.700 And but in terms of substance abuse, you know, we don't we don't spend a lot of time speaking about it

00:18:43.380 here at the at the food bank because that's not our area of expertise. So more on a personal side

00:18:48.820 of things, I want to make sure that it is treated as a health issue, that we we make sure that folks

00:18:56.980 who have a substance abuse challenge in their and their life get treatment. You know, I used to,

00:19:03.300 I used to through Dixon Hall run shelters where there were individuals who would overdose and they

00:19:08.580 would go and they go to detox and they'd be there for two or three days. And then they would be forced

00:19:15.060 to come back to the shelter and told that they would have a rehab spot in six to eight months. Well, you

00:19:22.100 can imagine what happened between the re-entry into the shelter and that six months. And so I would love

00:19:27.700 to see a stronger, more dedicated resolve to making sure that rehab is available. We didn't have the

00:19:36.740 same drug crisis that we used to have in in this country. And and I think that it is by, you know,

00:19:43.620 I would love to see us ensure that it is a health care issue, ensure that people have access to the

00:19:49.620 resources to to remove themselves from substance abuse. And, and that we, we reframe the conversation

00:19:57.380 that we currently are having. You know, how do people access your services there at the Daily Bread

00:20:03.460 Food Bank? Well, we we we provide food for about 200 food banks all across the city of Toronto. And so

00:20:10.740 the easiest thing for somebody who needs food to get food is to visit 211.ca or just call 211.

00:20:17.780 And they will let you know the hours and the locations of the food bank that are, that are

00:20:21.940 closest to you. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Neil. We really appreciate it.

00:20:26.340 I appreciate the conversation. Thanks, Mark. Bye-bye. And if you enjoyed the show and appreciate

00:20:32.740 independent journalism, you can help support what we do by heading over to Junonews.com. That's J-U-N-O-N-E-W-S.com

00:20:42.180 and becoming a premium subscriber. Please consider doing so today if you can. It means

00:20:47.620 it means a lot. Thank you. We'll see you next time.

Juno News - January 26, 2026

Food bank use SURGES as Carney unveils grocery rebate

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