Juno News - Former finance minister slams Liberals’ fiscal record

00:00:00.000 you're tuned in to the andrew lawton show

00:00:05.920 well anyone who's been following the descent of canada's economic situation over the last

00:00:14.820 eight years or so has no doubt missed the glory days of canada's economy when we had

00:00:20.000 the gentleman who's sitting next to me at the helm former finance minister joe oliver who's

00:00:24.340 also become a tremendous financial post columnist on occasion a national post columnist in his

00:00:29.520 post-political life joe it's uh good to have you back on the show thank you

00:00:32.660 there we go this isn't this is my first rodeo so i should know you say what he has in financial

00:00:41.580 acumen he lacks in audio visual capabilities but we'll make it work here okay let's just talk in

00:00:46.900 in general about the forecasting here because this is a forward-looking event a lot of optimism about

00:00:51.340 the possibility of replacing justin trudeau's government if you were a finance minister

00:00:57.080 coming into this how would you even begin because the conservatives under pierre paulievre have

00:01:02.000 talked about balancing budgets lowering government spending but it takes a lot of time to correct the

00:01:08.100 problem before you can do what you want i would imagine yes well it does and that's why you can't

00:01:12.820 say we're going to balance the budget next year that would be draconian and uh and uh unjustified

00:01:19.600 however you have to set a target a realistic target hopefully it would be in the first term of

00:01:26.180 government you know let's say within within four years but i haven't you know delved into to all

00:01:32.340 the numbers some of which are not necessarily fully fully disclosed shall we say um but you have to

00:01:38.780 have a target a realistic target and start moving to it uh towards it what you have to do is stop the

00:01:45.380 profligate spending that's that's absolutely crucial and then focus on on issues which will enhance

00:01:52.180 productivity because that's been a disaster for canada but basically gdp per capita which

00:01:58.960 measures uh personal prosperity has been essentially flat for what uh well during the uh during the old

00:02:06.280 trudeau government and that's what people of course feel and they feel the higher prices and the fact that

00:02:11.400 they're not keeping up in terms of their their personal salaries and and you know the oecd has

00:02:17.620 projected that canada will be the worst among the 38 wealthy countries in the world over the next 20

00:02:22.660 years and then 40 years so we have to do something about that and there are a variety of ways to do it

00:02:28.020 i'd say one critical element is start developing our national resources and start exporting them

00:02:34.980 to overseas markets which not only will create an enormous amount of revenue employ people increase

00:02:42.020 national security and also help our our allies then we have to look at the tax system to make sure it's

00:02:49.140 it's efficient that it isn't excessive that it encourages entrepreneurship and allows uh an affordable

00:02:56.980 life for for canadians focus on on issues of of science and technology to increase productivity that way

00:03:07.300 but we've got to get more capital coming into the country we have a capital flight problem the precise

00:03:14.260 opposite of of what we want it's not that canadian workers are are lazy or incompetent quite to the

00:03:20.980 contrary but if if so little money is being spent to enhance uh technology and and uh they're having to

00:03:29.780 work harder than the americans are and therefore they're less productive not because as they say they they

00:03:36.260 work uh less hard but because they just don't have the materials uh to work with which makes would

00:03:41.540 make them more efficient so one of the challenges we saw this especially during the conservative

00:03:46.820 leadership race uh pierre polyev put a a fair bit of the blame for inflation on the bank of canada and

00:03:52.420 and it's you know money printing and i i know that there was a lot of bristling from the laurentian elites

00:03:57.140 about this and at the same time if i look back to the harper government when you were finance minister and

00:04:02.100 and even when your predecessor jim flaherty was i don't recall really any public acrimony between

00:04:07.860 the government and the bank and i was wanting to get your thoughts on is that appropriate the

00:04:11.940 criticism that was directed there and what are the implications of that how much blame does that

00:04:16.820 institution actually have for what's happened well we um we respected uh uh the the independence of the

00:04:26.180 the monetary authority of the of the of the bank of canada but on the other hand we weren't fighting

00:04:31.700 with with the fiscal policy wasn't fighting monetary policy and and and vice versa we were trying to

00:04:38.420 which you know we're moving in in in the same uh direction um now um we have fiscal policy which has

00:04:46.340 thrown a a a huge burden on on the bank of canada and we which can't shoulder it all on his own and

00:04:52.900 and and of course you you hear uh from the governor and the deputy governors about uh you know now's the

00:04:58.740 time to break the glass because we've got a productivity uh problem uh we have a debt problem

00:05:04.820 and uh the bank will independently decide based on data when it's time to start reducing rates um it'll

00:05:12.900 they'll be looking at the inflation numbers i suspect they're going to start reducing uh rates you know

00:05:19.540 fairly soon maybe even uh in in within a couple of months but um you know there are implications to

00:05:28.900 that um there's affordability but there's also the impact on the dollar if the if if the fed doesn't

00:05:34.660 produce rates as well so it's it's quite complex um you know the prime minister doesn't doesn't spend

00:05:41.940 much time apparently thinking about monetary policy and we know what he's done with fiscal policy so yes

00:05:47.540 it's it's a grand zero uh so far um but um you know i'm not going to give advice to the uh to the

00:05:55.700 monetary authority but i i i think um the government keeps its its distance but ultimately it's it's

00:06:04.340 responsible so explain to me where a lot of this is going because i remember when the bank of canada

00:06:10.580 said inflation was going to be transitory and then we learned it was something that would get quite

00:06:14.660 severe and even if it's cooled a little bit it's still affecting people and then you have fiscal

00:06:18.500 policy that is exacerbating affordability problems such as uh carbon taxes and so on but if we look

00:06:25.860 forward and i wouldn't say that this has been an entire elephant in the room some people have talked

00:06:30.260 about it canadians who have to renew their mortgages within the next one two three years are in for a

00:06:34.820 rude awakening and i wonder where this goes well let me just refer back to to pierre polyev's uh um

00:06:43.860 frustration i guess with monetary policy and it goes back to a a hearing um in the house uh when he was

00:06:52.420 questioning uh the the the governor and and he said he felt and pierre felt that uh we we've got a uh an

00:07:00.740 inflation problem that's that's there and and growing and you know the the governor said well

00:07:06.740 it's it's it's it's transitory it turned out pierre was right and and the governor was wrong and the

00:07:11.460 governor admitted yes he was wrong so it was frustrating for for pierre who wanted the the the bank to move

00:07:19.860 in the interest of the economy and and and uh everyday uh everyday citizens well um i think you know data

00:07:28.740 has as sort of moved the uh the bank and now uh you're mentioning some of the critical affordability

00:07:35.700 issues i mean we know housing is is is really in in crisis at this moment and a dream has been quashed

00:07:41.940 for people wanting to buy their first home and there's a lot of fear in the air because some of

00:07:48.100 these mortgages are coming due i think um you know there's going to be a lot of uh i guess political

00:07:55.220 push on on on the bank to move but it will move when it thinks it's appropriate but i think it

00:08:00.500 will move this year and i think things will will start to get a bit better on on the interest rate

00:08:06.100 side i wanted to move to a very different issue but one that i know is near and dear to your heart

00:08:10.500 which is israel and i think in general the uh threats facing the jewish community in this country

00:08:15.700 of which you're a member and i i wanted to ask about whether you saw what's happening coming before

00:08:22.260 because i think anti-semitism as many people have said has not emerged it's been exposed i i think

00:08:28.580 it's always been there and people are being a lot more brazen with it but we've now seen uh the

00:08:32.980 targeting of of jewish businesses of jewish neighborhoods it's not just you know protesting

00:08:36.740 at the israeli consulate or embassy which i'd say is a legitimate place to protest it's protesting

00:08:42.020 jewish people and is this something that you foresaw in this country well i knew it was always 0.71

00:08:49.700 a potential and i i just want to say that here at this conference that the canada is strong and free

00:08:55.140 i i've been very heartened but not in the least surprised by the by the terrific support for israel

00:09:02.020 and for the jewish people and the remarks that that that our leader pierre paulia have made about the

00:09:07.460 jewish community in canada and how how we you know he stands with and we all stand with with all our

00:09:14.740 our friends and neighbors you know so um you know that's that this isn't all a dark a dark story but

00:09:22.820 um you know anti-semitism has been a constant for for for thousands of years you can analyze why and

00:09:30.660 what the the the the rationale or rationalizations for it but it it always seems to be there lurking

00:09:38.260 and what what is perhaps new is that it's no longer just a phenomenon of the far right in fact

00:09:44.420 it's less of a problem in in the far right because they've been so marginalized they're not less hope

00:09:50.180 hateful i'm not suggesting that but they're they're not as as as big a a threat uh unfortunately uh in the

00:09:58.260 left the the new post-modernism intersectionality uh critical race theory the the assignment of people to

00:10:06.740 two categories of oppressed and oppressors has worked against the jewish community which

00:10:12.180 maybe wasn't viewed as as as an exemplar of of whiteness is now uh you know we're all together in

00:10:21.060 this yeah and and and and so israel is being judged in that context and it's it's been a um an opportunity

00:10:31.620 frankly uh for um some of this ugliness to come out of the sewer and and uh and onto the streets

00:10:38.980 of this country and that's worrying and you know a a a blight frankly and and i would take uh what

00:10:48.500 you've said there and add to it by pointing out that this exists in the far right it exists in the

00:10:53.780 mainstream left and this is the challenge is that you don't actually need to go to the fringes of the

00:10:58.580 left to find a lot of this venom against events against jews and and that uh has been you'll find

00:11:05.060 it in the universities yes well you'll find it in caucus i mean you'll find it in the ndp caucus and

00:11:10.020 and to some extent in the liberal caucus as well it's uh you know it's it's a deep concern and i think

00:11:16.900 you know we we hope that our our friends and neighbors uh will see it as as not only a threat to

00:11:23.460 to to a community a minority community but really a a threat to to canadian values an assault on canadian 0.99

00:11:31.140 values and and a threat to uh to the type of country uh we want to see canada continue to be

00:11:39.860 joe oliver always a pleasure sir great to talk to you thanks for listening to the andrew lawton show

00:11:45.540 support the program by donating to true north at www.tnc.news

Juno News - April 22, 2024

Former finance minister slams Liberals’ fiscal record

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