00:00:40.400With a rapidly spreading conflict and growing threats to civilian life.
00:00:45.940Canada reaffirms that international law binds all belligerents.
00:00:50.300We condemn the strikes carried out by Iran on civilians and civilian infrastructure across the Middle East.
00:00:56.640And we implore all parties, including the United States and Israel, to respect the rules of international engagement.
00:01:04.160Carney wavered at his initial support when he met with opposition from his own caucus and cabinet.
00:01:10.440Both the Foreign Affairs and Defense Minister favor a ceasefire and diplomatic solution.
00:01:16.000Meantime, liberal backbencher Will Greaves condemned the mission, saying we can no longer trust the Americans.
00:01:22.140And in moments when the world is most dangerous, how do we avoid sliding into automatic alignment with countries that we can no longer trust and which do not have Canada's interests in mind?
00:01:34.580Listen, we can be clear-eyed about Iran's human rights record and its abuses and the destructive role that it has played in the Middle East and still insist on consistency, restraint, and the protection of civilians.
00:01:46.580Because that's what credibility looks like in a fracturing world.
00:01:49.560But Canada cannot endorse the unilateral and illegal use of military force, the killing of civilians, or the kidnap and assassination of foreign heads of government.
00:02:00.960Well, it was endorsed, and then it wasn't.
00:02:03.660In response, former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett described Carney's latest position as stupid.
00:02:10.020Prime Minister Mark Carney, he has said of the Israeli-American strikes in Iran that they would appear not to be consistent or to be inconsistent with international law.
00:02:22.080What's your response to this criticism?
00:02:24.200That's just stupid because Article 51 of the UN Charter explicitly says that our nation has a right of self-defense.
00:02:31.360Are we supposed to wait for Iran to fully develop their nuclear weapons, their missiles, and be ready to shoot?
00:02:38.860And at that moment, are we supposed to attack them or an hour before or a week before?
00:02:57.100President Trump, meantime, has been harshly critical of both Spain and the UK for their
00:03:01.700lack of support for Operation Epic Fury.
00:03:05.060He also says the future of Iran's leadership is getting more uncertain by the day.
00:03:09.720Well, most of the people we had in mind are dead.
00:03:12.500So, you know, we had some in mind from that group that is dead.
00:03:18.000And now we have another group, they may be dead also, based on reports.
00:03:23.800So I guess you have a third wave coming in.
00:03:25.900Pretty sure we're not going to know anybody.
00:03:28.180Our guest today is a former Foreign Affairs Cabinet Secretary in the Paul Martin government,
00:03:33.380Dan McTague, who also worked on files, including Iran. Welcome to the show, Dan.
00:03:39.220Mark, it's great to be here, and thank you for the introduction.
00:03:42.200Let's talk a little bit about what's going on now. We've seen shifting positions by the Prime
00:03:47.060Minister, depending it appears on what day it is. I mean, he was initially completely supportive
00:03:53.560of the action now taken by the United States and Israel against Iran. Then within a day or two,
00:03:59.920began to change. We saw the Foreign Affairs Minister and the Defense Minister express support,
00:04:08.480not for the mission itself so much, but for a diplomatic decision, a diplomatic resolution,
00:04:14.640a ceasefire. And now we have the Prime Minister coming out and basically describing the action
00:04:19.760as illegal. What do you make of this? This doesn't look good for Canada, does it?
00:04:23.760Well, no, but you've got a guy who takes an international approach rather than a Canadian
00:04:27.280approach and doesn't see things the way uh we've seen it for many many years and that iran is a
00:04:32.400very dangerous uh obstacle to world peace and to engagement and simply having them there will not
00:04:39.840lead to uh any type of uh resolution to some of the greatest tensions that we face in the world
00:04:45.760from the murder of thousands of israelis on october the 7th to bombings around the world to
00:04:53.760financing the proxies whether it be hoodies hamas or hezbollah something had to be done this should
00:04:59.840have been done 47 years ago and the fact that it wasn't probably because america was still reeling
00:05:04.000from its reputation post uh the vietnam period but i'm old enough to remember that time and knew
00:05:09.920that canada always had uh you know we at some points broke off diplomatic ties with iran because
00:05:15.120we knew they killed canadians in prison uh madame kazemi was one of my files and uh we had to
00:05:22.160basically shut down our embassy there because these people are villainous they are uh they're
00:05:27.840very uh they do not believe in human rights and the uh their way of doing things is violence our
00:05:33.360way or the highway unless you wanted to convert and become part of us so uh the actions taken
00:05:38.640were necessary um i don't care who did it i'm just happy it was done i thought reagan would have been
00:05:44.080the one to do this but that we got vacillating positions taken by europe and its friends and
00:05:49.920allies and new buddies speaks volumes about the rather facile approach that Mark Carney has taken
00:05:56.640and his government has taken to a very serious matter, the likes of which could end in making
00:06:00.960the world a much safer place for everyone. Yeah, I mean, you sense that there's a Pollyanna view
00:06:06.400that, you know, we can all respect international law. I mean, you're talking about a country that
00:06:10.480shot down a civilian airliner just a few years ago, 2020, that killed 55 Canadians. And now,
00:06:17.200of course, we hear that the regime has murdered somewhere between 35 and possibly 40,000 of its
00:06:24.160own citizens in the last few weeks over their opposition to the regime. So we're talking about
00:06:31.040a very bloody, vile, violent regime. I don't think you can play namby-pamby with these people.
00:06:40.560There's no Marcus of Queensbury rules when you're dealing with people who want to get
00:06:44.240a nuclear bomb and they have sworn to destroy israel in the united states i just don't understand
00:06:50.480how their position can be weakened like the one that we've seen from mark carney over the last
00:06:55.600day or two what do you think well this is not about weapons of mass destruction but our responses
00:07:01.040looks like a weapon of mass stupidity and i think what we're seeing here is a government that is
00:07:05.040prepared to take a position that isn't a position at all and we change with the uh with the direction
00:07:10.720of the wind but I can tell you that for a lot of Canadians this is really the line on the sand
00:07:15.440either we stand up with what is right and what needs to be done or we continue to have the world
00:07:20.320subject to the kind of terrorism and its funders and its enablers like Iran and you know if we're
00:07:28.080not going to listen to our constituents you know I got places out here in Richmond Hill and others
00:07:32.720where Canadians of Iranian origin are absolutely committed to seeing the destruction of this regime
00:07:39.040not the people and the only one that can do it is donald trump uh and that will keep the chinas
00:07:44.640and the russias who have you know rather perverse views of the world who don't believe in any types
00:07:50.240any semblance of human rights but for the lefties to come out and try to say that this is a bad
00:07:54.720thing i mean you have to really know where they're coming from there was an alliance between the
00:07:58.800ayatollah uh the uh islamic regime in iran and the marxists and they all came together coalesced
00:08:05.680in 1979. And we're still feeling the echoes of that in ways that are certainly deadly for Canada
00:08:12.780to say, oh, we're going to change our mind is, in my view, one of the reasons why the country is not
00:08:18.360taken seriously. Unlike my time, where our foreign policy meant something and we could definitely
00:08:23.020punch above our weight because we didn't vacillate. Do you think Carney bowed to opposition in his
00:08:28.540own caucus or opposition of the Toronto Star or opposition from the UK and Spain? Either way,
00:08:34.640He took a strong position to start and within 48 hours was already wobbly on that.
00:08:42.560I guess my question is, who did he bow to?
00:08:45.320Was it his own caucus? Opposition in his own caucus, you think?
00:08:48.600Who knows? This man makes all sorts of declarations and says all sorts of things only to reverse himself.
00:08:54.040He wrote a whole book of values about what he said about stranded assets and GFANS and all sorts of other things.
00:08:59.320It would appear that he wants to walk away from that while doing exactly that, but by other means.
00:09:04.640Mark Carney has to peel back a few layers of the onion to really figure out that at the end of the day, he's just doing the same thing Trudeau did by different means while trying to make it look more Socratic, a little bit more involved with polemics and dazzling little things about how great his credentials are to the unknown.
00:09:22.960And of course, the elbows group out there that believe that because he happened to snow the public in terms of what he did in the 1998 budget balancing, which was a crock, that he had something to do with the 2008 mitigation of Canada's, you know, exposure to the global meltdown.