Juno News - Freeland’s Ukraine side-gig sparks conflict-of-interest uproar

00:00:00.000 Well, Prime Minister Carney is in no rush to build a new Canadian pipeline to the Pacific

00:00:09.500 despite the sudden availability of all that Venezuelan oil to our biggest customer, the

00:00:15.320 United States. Since the arrest of dictator Nicolas Maduro, some analysts in Canada say

00:00:20.760 Venezuelan crude might soon replace Canadian exports of oil to the United States. We could

00:00:27.640 lose our main customer. In a letter to the Prime Minister, Conservative Party leader Pierre

00:00:32.540 Polyev wrote, the removal of Maduro and possible end to American sanctions on Venezuelan oil

00:00:39.140 could eventually displace some of Canada's oil exports to our biggest customer. Polyev

00:00:46.080 says it's time we race to approve a pipeline to the Pacific coast and break our dependency

00:00:51.600 on the American market. But the Prime Minister says Canada remains a reliable supplier of

00:00:57.220 oil to the United States. And that's not about to change.

00:01:00.280 President Trump has said one of the key reasons that he went into Venezuela was to get the

00:01:04.560 oil out. Do you think this will impact the Canadian oil sector? And does that increase the need

00:01:09.200 in your estimation to have a pipeline to the northwest coast of BC?

00:01:12.120 It's been our view, and we're working towards this, that Canadian oil will be competitive because

00:01:18.100 it is low risk, clearly low risk, low cost, the marginal cost. There's been huge progress in

00:01:26.340 getting down the cost. And low carbon, which is what the Pathways Project carbon capture will

00:01:32.480 bring. And that makes Canadian oil competitive, Canadian oil competitive for the medium and long

00:01:37.440 term. So we welcome the prospect of peace, peaceful transition, democratic Venezuela. We welcome the prospect

00:01:46.560 of greater prosperity in Venezuela. But we also see the competitiveness of Canadian oil. And we're

00:01:54.080 investing or we're putting in place measures so that that's going to happen. And in that context,

00:02:01.200 a pipeline and exports to Asia, we've got competitive product, and we'd be diversifying our markets. And

00:02:11.120 that's one of the reasons why we signed the comprehensive MOU with Alberta. So we'll be working towards that.

00:02:16.560 So the Prime Minister also weighed in on the fate of MP Chrystia Freeland, who has accepted a role

00:02:22.160 as Ukraine's economic advisor. Freeland posted this on X. Ukraine is at the forefront of today's

00:02:30.000 global fight for democracy. And I welcome the chance to contribute on an unpaid basis as an economic

00:02:36.480 advisor to President Zelensky. In accepting this voluntary position, I will be stepping aside from my role

00:02:43.040 as the Prime Minister's special representative for the reconstruction of Ukraine. In the coming weeks,

00:02:49.040 I will also leave my seat in Parliament. But for now, Freeland is still an MP. And even the CBC is asking

00:02:58.560 the obvious question, who is Freeland actually working for right now?

00:03:02.560 You ponder now a situation where, yes, the two countries are allies, but their interests may not

00:03:08.880 always perfectly align. And it's unclear how Freeland can sit on both sides of the table at the same time,

00:03:17.040 without being in a position of a conflict of interest. To this point, we have asked the Prime

00:03:23.040 Minister's office to clarify exactly which government Chrystia Freeland is working for at the moment,

00:03:28.800 ahead of the Coalition of the Willing talks in Paris tomorrow.

00:03:34.240 Now, Carney says, any questions about her continued role as a member for Rosedale

00:03:40.240 were settled once she accepted the appointment from Ukraine? Let's listen.

00:03:43.600 Ms. Freeland was on yesterday as your special representative. Did you ask her not to quit

00:03:47.280 because of the minority Parliament situation right now?

00:03:49.760 No, absolutely not. First off, let me...

00:03:53.840 I should say, as a member of Parliament.

00:03:55.360 Let me... No, just to be clear, just to be clear. Ms. Freeland, Chrystia has served our country

00:04:04.480 for well over a decade in a formal role as a parliamentarian, certainly in a number of ministerial

00:04:10.560 posts and served with great distinction. She was... I had her as my special envoy after she left

00:04:19.200 cabinet for the Ukraine reconstruction. Judgment became her judgment that she could be more useful

00:04:27.200 for that process as she was leaving, as she was retiring as a parliamentarian, as a direct advisor.

00:04:34.640 My judgment was that taking that role would be consistent with resigning as an MP,

00:04:42.000 and I welcomed her doing that, and I'm pleased that for Ukraine.

00:04:48.160 So, the loss of an MP means the Kearney Liberal government will be one more member shy of a majority

00:04:55.200 in parliament. Conservatives say Liberals are stepping up. They're pushed to lure opposition members over to

00:05:00.880 the government side. MP Scott Anderson of Vernon, B.C. was approached and released this letter saying,

00:05:06.960 he told the Liberals, what are you going to offer, or rather, what are you going to try and bribe the

00:05:15.680 next Conservative MP with? A stinging reference to ex-Conservative MPs Chris Dantremont and Michael Ma.

00:05:24.480 Anderson went on to say, it'll be a cold day in hell before I even consider betraying my constituents,

00:05:31.280 and you should probably stop asking because I will certainly advertise it every time you try.

00:05:36.960 We're now joined by Duff Conacher, co-founder of Democracy Watch, an ethics watchdog. Welcome, Duff.

00:05:44.480 Duff Conacher- Thank you very much.

00:05:46.000 Let's start off talking about Chrystia Freeland and the whole question about around who she works for

00:05:51.760 right now. She, as you know, has accepted this role as economic advisor to Ukraine. The problem,

00:05:57.360 of course, is she's also a sitting member of parliament. And yes, we know she's going to quit. 0.99

00:06:02.640 We don't exactly know when she's going to quit. She should be quitting immediately, but there are 0.76

00:06:07.120 things that she is doing that potentially put her out of conflict of interest. What do you make of

00:06:11.440 this situation? Yes, she actually should have quit before the position was confirmed. And right now,

00:06:18.880 she's in violation of the MPs code, which has a rule that says you can't improperly further

00:06:27.120 another person's or entity's private interests. And it's very narrow, the MPs code. It does cover

00:06:36.880 financial interests though. And she's been an economic advisor to the government of the Ukraine.

00:06:42.720 And of course, her advice will affect all businesses in the Ukraine if they are able to do economic

00:06:49.280 development. And that's furthering the financial interests of the government and those other

00:06:54.880 entities, those other businesses and organizations in the Ukraine. And it's clearly improper. She took an

00:07:02.080 oath of allegiance to Canada when she became an MP and does so after every election again.

00:07:12.480 And as well, it's just improper to have this conflict of interest between her role as an MP

00:07:18.000 representing voters in Canada and her role advising another foreign government.

00:07:22.640 Yeah, you get the sense that she thinks that the interests of Ukraine and Canada are exactly the

00:07:28.800 same, but they're obviously not. We're two different countries, two different interests.

00:07:33.440 I mean, you're either serving the interests of Canadian taxpayers who are paying you, by the way,

00:07:38.480 or you're serving the interests of the Ukraine. And the other part of this is that the fact that she

00:07:42.880 didn't accept a salary, I mean, I suspect that there are some financial perks in there somewhere,

00:07:48.400 if you look at the contract. But she seems to think that that's maybe a factor here,

00:07:53.360 because if you read what she says in accepting this voluntary position, I will be stepping aside

00:07:59.280 from my role as the Prime Minister's Special Representative for the reconstruction of Ukraine.

00:08:04.880 In the coming weeks, I will also leave my seat in Parliament. I mean, does it matter that this is

00:08:09.280 a voluntary position, an unpaid position, or not?

00:08:12.640 No, it doesn't matter at all. You can still have a conflict of interest just based on

00:08:18.160 relationships and the interests that you are representing. And the past ethics commissioners

00:08:25.040 have ruled that interests go beyond financial. And as well, she's representing the financial

00:08:36.480 interests of the Ukraine because she's advising on economic development. So there is a financial

00:08:42.800 factor in there, even though it may not be personal for her. I'm guessing her expenses are going to be

00:08:48.000 covered. If she goes to the Ukraine, she's not likely to be paying for that herself. And she had to

00:08:54.800 leave the position, the Cabinet position of the Special Advisor to the Prime Minister on the Ukraine,

00:09:01.440 the Special Envoy. And she did that yesterday, but she's still sitting as an MP. So there's different

00:09:07.840 rules for members of Cabinet. And if she had stayed in that position, she would have been violating those

00:09:12.960 rules. But she's still violating MPs have their own separate ethics code, and she's still violating the 0.95

00:09:19.040 rules in that. She said she got advice from the ethics commissioner's office. The ethics commissioner

00:09:24.240 treats that advice as confidential. And if the ethics commissioner cleared it, the ethics commissioners

00:09:30.640 created a giant loophole in the federal ethics rules, essentially saying you can represent a foreign

00:09:37.680 government while being an MP. So hopefully we're going to file a complaint about it. Democracy Watch

00:09:42.800 is, and hopefully an MP will file it as well. That will force a ruling from the ethics commissioner that

00:09:47.600 can be challenged in court. And if the ethics commissioner's ruling is that this is fine,

00:09:52.960 then Democracy Watch will go to court and challenge that ruling because it's clearly not. It's technically

00:09:58.880 legal under the oath of allegiance. It doesn't say that you can't do other work. It's technically legal

00:10:04.160 under our foreign interference laws, which have a huge loophole in them that really should say MPs cannot

00:10:09.120 be representing foreign governments or entities. But under the MPs ethics code, I think it's a clear

00:10:15.040 violation and the ethics commissioner should rule that and find her guilty now. She should have resigned 1.00

00:10:21.040 before and she's violated the code by not doing that. And the longer she stays along, it's just extending

00:10:27.840 the violation. Yeah, and she's continuing to get paid. I get the sense that she's 1.00

00:10:34.160 stretching this out so she can keep, you know, collecting that sweet salary of hers. 1.00

00:10:38.640 I think that's part of it. I think the other part is the government is close to a majority.

00:10:46.240 If they can get a conservative MP or MP from another party to switch over, they'd have a majority.

00:10:53.120 If she leaves, then it's a by-election. That seat is, if she resigns, that seat's vacant. So she can't 0.99

00:10:59.440 vote any longer with the government. And that's advancing the private interests of the Liberal

00:11:05.120 Party, which is improper as well, to be sitting there as an MP in a conflict of interest. And why

00:11:10.480 are you sticking around? You're sticking around so that your party can ram through parliament,

00:11:16.480 whatever it wants, and also derail a bunch of investigations that are going on at committees.

00:11:22.080 Because if the Liberals get a majority, the Liberals will have a majority on every

00:11:25.600 committee and all the good work that committees are doing right now holding the government to

00:11:29.440 account will stop. So that, again, that's a conflict of interest if she's sticking around

00:11:35.440 for that reason, because she's furthering improperly the interests of the Liberal Party,

00:11:40.320 as opposed to upholding the public interest, which is what you're supposed to do as an MP.

00:11:45.280 Yeah, I think what's going on in committees is an excellent point. And the Liberals would love to

00:11:49.520 stop those investigations. Very much so.

00:11:52.080 tax. And I think that's one of the reasons why they're pushing so hard to lure Conservatives over.

00:11:57.600 And I'll get to that in a minute. But first of all, I want to just end this discussion around

00:12:04.480 Chrystia Freeland, because I think ultimately the buck stops with the Prime Minister, doesn't it?

00:12:08.560 I mean, shouldn't he dismiss her rather than wait for her to resign?

00:12:14.400 He certainly could kick her out of caucus for this, because it's a clear violation of the MP code. 0.70

00:12:20.320 There are no penalties for violating the MP's ethics code, just like there's no penalties when

00:12:24.640 cabinet ministers or top government officials violate the key ethics rules in the federal

00:12:29.120 government ethics law. It's crazy, but politicians write these codes and laws for themselves and they

00:12:35.040 don't put in penalties. But if as what should happen, the ethics commissioner finds her guilty of

00:12:42.560 violating the ethics code, well, does Mark Carney want to wear that? So he should tell her you resign

00:12:48.720 now or I'm kicking you out of caucus because I think it's a violation. You're violating fundamental

00:12:54.960 rules that protect democratic government and you're not going to be able to stay in caucus

00:13:00.320 as a result. And if he doesn't do that, he should wear it. Her conflict is his conflict,

00:13:06.000 because he's accepting it. And it wouldn't be surprising from him. He has a deeply unethical

00:13:10.960 attitude towards governing. We know that because he is in a financial conflict of interest himself,

00:13:17.040 because of his million dollars of stock options in Brookfield, while he's sitting there making

00:13:23.120 decisions that affect companies within the Brookfield conglomerate almost weekly. Any

00:13:28.000 decision he makes about businesses in Canada affects Brookfield. And he's invested in Brookfield

00:13:34.640 and knows he's invested in Brookfield and has a sham not blind trust and a sham unethical smokescreen

00:13:42.000 and says and is fine with that and says this whole cover up that he's doing is fine. So I wouldn't be

00:13:47.360 surprised if he's also fine with Christy Freeland breaking the fundamental ethics rules.

00:13:52.080 Yeah. When you look at Ukraine and the rebuilding of that country, once this war ends,

00:13:57.200 I mean, this thing is going to stink to high heaven because of course Brookfield will want to play a

00:14:01.600 huge role along with other companies like BlackRock, for instance, in the trillion dollar operation

00:14:07.840 that is going to be the rebuilding of this destroyed country of Ukraine. And as Brookfield, of course,

00:14:17.040 plays a role in that. Canada will have a role in that through its government and then Carney will be

00:14:23.440 able to enrich himself through that whole rebuilding process in Ukraine. I mean, and of course,

00:14:28.320 they've got Christy over there as well, you know, advising the Ukrainians. The whole thing is just

00:14:33.680 not good. Optically speaking alone, it's just horrible. It is. And we'll see whether she does

00:14:42.240 the right thing very soon. But she stayed one day as MP and so she's violated the law and should be 0.75

00:14:49.520 found guilty of violating the MP's ethics code as a result. But the longer she stays, it's just going to 0.76

00:14:57.280 continue and compound the violation and the conflict of interest. Let's talk about the Liberals now

00:15:04.000 luring Conservatives. I mean, this is unsavory. I think a lot of Canadians are going to look

00:15:09.360 at this and find the whole thing extremely troubling. You know, it's going to breed a sense of cynicism that

00:15:16.640 these people can play musical chairs, you know, based on whatever the government party is dangling

00:15:22.960 before some of these opposition members. Can you talk a little bit about your view around the ethical

00:15:28.000 concerns of luring Conservatives or any other member over to the government side?

00:15:34.960 Yeah, well, first of all, there is also in the MP's ethics code, some expectations. And MPs are expected

00:15:41.520 to act with honesty and uphold the public's confidence and trust in the integrity of themselves and the

00:15:47.920 House of Commons overall. And so I think when an MP crosses the floor, it's dishonest. If you have run

00:15:57.360 for a party, taken your oath under that party as an MP, thanked your voters, the voters from that party

00:16:05.200 for voting for you, and then you vote with that party for months, as Chris Dontremont did, the Halifax MP

00:16:11.680 that switched and also criticized the governing party very strongly as both he and Michael Ma,

00:16:20.240 the other Liberal Conservative MP who have switched to the Liberals. I think that's a violation of the

00:16:25.040 code. Unfortunately, those rules in the code, again, MPs drafted these rules themselves. They just say

00:16:31.920 they're expectations, not requirements. And the ethics commissioner has talked out of both sides of

00:16:37.680 his mouth, this guy, Conrad von Finkenstein, who was handpicked in secret by the Trudeau cabinet.

00:16:43.520 He said it's a requirement to follow these rules of avoid apparent conflicts of interest, act with

00:16:48.800 honesty, uphold the public's confidence and trust. But then we filed a complaint about Dontremont switching,

00:16:55.280 saying it was dishonest and didn't, you know, shattered the voters trust that have voted for him in

00:17:00.960 Halifax. And I know other voters from Halifax area wrote as well to the ethics commissioner. Sorry,

00:17:10.240 I'm saying Halifax, Nova Scotia. He's not directly from Halifax, Chris Dontremont. And the ethics

00:17:16.160 commissioner said, Oh, no, those rules are not enforceable. So he said they were enforceable in

00:17:20.000 his annual report last spring. And then now he says they're unenforceable. If there was an offer from

00:17:25.920 the liberals of some sort of favor in return for switching, that's illegal, that's bribery. And also

00:17:32.960 it's a violation of the MPs ethics code to, to switch on that basis, because you would be advancing

00:17:39.760 your personal private interests by switching. So we haven't had evidence come out so far of the

00:17:45.360 liberals actually offering directly a job, a cabinet post, even being a committee chair, you get paid

00:17:53.840 more. If you're an MP, we haven't had that. And there hasn't been a direct connection. But if those

00:18:01.680 rewards come later, then we will be filing complaints that that for an investigation by police to

00:18:10.720 investigate whether that offer was on the table before the MP switched because it's bribery and it's

00:18:16.640 illegal. Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what it is. And now we see this BC conservative from

00:18:23.520 Vernon, Scott Anderson, shaming the liberals for doing it. Maybe that's a good approach here,

00:18:29.120 saying, you know, and publishing a letter, you know, basically just constituents saying,

00:18:33.840 I was, I was approached, I told them where to go and challenge them basically to answer the question,

00:18:40.160 you know, what are you going to offer the next conservative MP to join your ranks? Of course,

00:18:46.400 which is blatant bribery. I mean, at what point do the police get involved in this sort of thing, Duff?

00:18:52.720 Well, unfortunately, in the past, they haven't gotten involved. Back in 2005, 2006, with the biggest

00:19:00.320 case being cases being David, David Emerson, switching from the liberals to the conservatives and

00:19:06.720 and Belinda Stronick and the switch there. And there was lots of evidence that they were guaranteed

00:19:14.160 cabinet posts if they switched. And so you're paid as an MP, you're paid much more as a cabinet minister.

00:19:20.880 And so they were offered a financial benefit to switch. And that was bribery. And the people doing

00:19:27.840 the negotiating at that time and the offers should have been charged and prosecuted. And unfortunately,

00:19:34.160 they weren't. So we'll see what happens in this situation and where it goes from here. I'm hoping

00:19:42.480 as well that some liberals will stand up on principle. If this does continue to happen and the liberals get

00:19:49.600 a majority through these very smelly defections, I hope liberal MPs will leave caucus and some of them

00:19:57.600 will show that they actually believe in democratic principles and will leave caucus and citizen

00:20:01.680 independence and deny Prime Minister Carney the majority. Because you should win a majority in

00:20:08.000 election, not through luring MPs to switch and their dishonest, unethical actions of switching after

00:20:17.680 running and being elected under another party's banner.

00:20:21.280 Yeah. And liberals should be upset by this because if conservatives are being offered things like cabinet

00:20:26.960 posts and other goodies, then those are things that are not going to die hard liberals. The loyal liberals,

00:20:35.040 people who thought they were on the winning side, but are seeing conservatives getting goodies

00:20:43.920 that they should be getting by all rights as the party in charge.

00:20:48.960 Yes. And they should be upset about it just generally. Mark Carney is not following the liberals'

00:20:55.120 platform from the election. Stephen Dubot has already left as environment, formerly environment minister and

00:21:02.720 more recently heritage minister. He's left cabinet. I would hope he and some other liberals would

00:21:09.280 stand up on principle and say, no, I don't support getting a majority this way. I'm going to leave

00:21:15.200 caucus and maybe I'll vote for you in the House of Commons still with the liberals. But that would at

00:21:21.520 least ensure that the opposition parties control committees. And that's really what Mark Carney's after.

00:21:27.440 Yeah. The ethics committee has been looking into Brookfield and the Conflict of Interest Act and

00:21:33.920 changing that act to essentially prohibit what Carney's doing, which is secretly profiting from his own

00:21:40.160 decisions as prime minister through his investments in Brookfield and making decisions that affect those

00:21:47.760 investments. And he would love to end that and many other committee hearings that are going on now.

00:21:54.400 If liberal MPs leave, then the liberals don't have majority and opposition parties still continue those

00:22:01.920 committees and those investigations and reviews of key democracy laws will continue.

00:22:08.720 So we'll see what happens. We need a law, of course, to ban MPs from switching unless a few things happen.

00:22:16.480 If a party leader did violate every promise made in the last election, then I think an MP could justify

00:22:22.640 switching and they'd have to file with the Ethics Commissioner and the Ethics Commissioner would

00:22:27.040 make a ruling on doing that. Or if a party leader changes and the new party leader takes it in a

00:22:33.840 totally different direction, then you should be able to leave as an MP, but not join another party.

00:22:37.680 You should go and sit as an independent until the next election or otherwise you should have to resign

00:22:43.760 immediately and run in a by-election.

00:22:45.520 Absolutely. How do people support the great work you do at Democracy Watch?

00:22:49.920 We'll see everything at democracywatch.ca. We welcome donations and also people sending letters

00:22:56.240 calling for these many key changes that we need to actually have a democracy.

00:22:59.920 Jeff Conacher, thank you so much for coming on the show.

00:23:02.960 Thank you for your interest. Take care.

00:23:05.040 And that is it for this edition of Straight Up. Appreciate you tuning in, my friends. Let's do it

00:23:10.560 again soon, shall we? Bye-bye for now.

Juno News - January 06, 2026

Freeland’s Ukraine side-gig sparks conflict-of-interest uproar

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