Going Prorogue
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Words per minute
177.31635
Harmful content
Misogyny
9
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Hate speech
3
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Summary
Coming up, the politics of prorogation and Justin Trudeau's double standard. Also, Morneau's departure, and Finance Minister Christia Freeland's ouster from the cabinet. To progue or not to prorogue? That is the question, and the answer seems to depend more on partisanship than integrity.
Transcript
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This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
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Coming up, the politics of prorogation and Justin Trudeau's double standard.
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Also, Morneau's departure and Finance Minister Christia Freeland.
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To prorogue or not to prorogue, that is the question.
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And the answer seems to depend more on partisanship than integrity.
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Justin Trudeau has prorogued Parliament, effectively killing the investigation into WE,
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killing a number of government bills, killing the parliamentary process until September.
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Just a little over a one-month reset, which really serves no other purpose
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than to hope Canadians forget about everything that's been happening in Canadian politics
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and specifically in Parliament for the last few months.
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But what I find baffling about this, and maybe not baffling, that's probably not the right word,
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what I find audacious about this is that the Liberals have been the ones that,
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going back as far as 2008, were jumping up and down,
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saying that prorogation is not at all business as usual,
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And now that Justin Trudeau is doing it, it's supposedly just dandy.
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Now, prorogue is a word that most people don't know.
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And in the sense that we're talking about it now, let me be frank,
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Normal people don't use words like prorogue or prorogation.
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It's specifically a parliamentary term in this context.
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And in 2008, most people learned of it for the first time when Stephen Harper prorogued Parliament
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to avoid what looked like it was going to be this unholy alliance of the Liberals,
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You remember that famous handshake and photo between the leaders of the three parties,
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Stéphane Dion and Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe after the 2008 election.
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And Stephen Harper didn't want to go and have a coalition government.
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He prorogued and then came back a couple of months later and let cooler heads prevail.
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Now, this was seen by the left as being just a brazen assault on democracy.
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How dare the prime minister avoid a vote that would trigger the downfall of the government
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And Justin Trudeau, who has, by the way, one party calling for his resignation in the
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Bloc Québécois, the Conservatives, for whom a couple of the leadership candidates,
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have said they want to push for an election at the earliest opportunity, meaning the NDP
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could, if it joins with these other parties, support that downfall of government.
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So Justin Trudeau, I don't think, is going to be losing his job as prime minister.
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But it was a possibility that the downfall of the Liberal government could have happened.
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And yes, in the midst of investigating scandal, the committee czar, and investigating Liberal
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scandal specifically, because, you know, what other kind is there right now in Canada?
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He's saying, you know what, we're going to walk things back and, you know, going to come
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And when we come back, we're going to have a throne speech and a budget.
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Now, this is assuming the Governor General has hung around until then, although that's
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But the thing that I, like, it is truly disgusting, the pretzel twist that people will put themselves
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into to try to defend what they're doing as not being hypocritical.
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Justin Trudeau has had some very strong words about prorogation in the past.
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Two prorogations in two years, the first to avoid a vote of non-confidence that would
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have surely brought this government down, the second to avoid difficult questions.
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Anyone who disagrees with this government gets pushed aside.
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The challenge becomes that he gets to use every tribune he can use, all the media, all the
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voices, all the attention, and gets to further marginalize people who disagree with him.
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That's why we're talking about prorogation today.
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That's why we want Canadians to go into this summer remembering that this is not a government
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Not a government who accepts easily the legitimacy that exists in every member sitting in this
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House who is duly elected by the people they strive to represent.
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Now he says it's different than what Harper did in 2008 because Harper did it to avoid
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a confidence vote, whereas Justin Trudeau is expecting that there will be a confidence
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This is legitimately his defense that, oh, well, I'm doing it for different reasons, so
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Stephen Harper and the Conservatives prorogued Parliament in order to shut it down and avoid
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a confidence vote. We are proroguing Parliament to bring it back on exactly the same week it
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was supposed to come back anyway and force a confidence vote.
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We are taking a moment to recognize that the throne speech we delivered eight months ago had
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no mention of COVID-19, had no conception of the reality we find ourselves in right now.
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We need to reset the approach of this government for a recovery, to build back better, and those
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are big, important decisions, and we need to present that to Parliament and gain the confidence
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of Parliament to move forward on this ambitious plan.
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The prorogation we are doing right now is about gaining or testing the confidence of the
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House, which is the opposite of what the Conservatives did that we rightly railed against back in 2015.
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And incidentally, there's this little nugget, as Brian Lilly called it when he posted it
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on Twitter, from the Liberals' 2015 platform under a section called Prorogation and Omnibus
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Bills, and it says, quote, we will not resort to legislative tricks to avoid scrutiny.
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Stephen Harper has used prorogation to avoid difficult political circumstances.
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So, again, not as advertised is a pretty good way of describing Justin Trudeau, but again,
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it goes back to his whole narrative and that of all of the Liberal defenders that it's different
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Everything Stephen Harper did was wrong, but everything we did was for pure, moral, justifiable
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reasons, even if it's pretty much the same thing.
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And, you know, listen, you could make an argument against Stephen Harper's coalition on the grounds
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that, yes, he was trying to avoid a vote, but there was also going to be a vote that would
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have circumvented an election that had just happened.
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In Justin Trudeau's case, it's not just the confidence vote that we should be concerned
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about that is being avoided because, yes, that will happen when Parliament goes back in
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The bigger issue here is that we're looking at an ongoing investigation, a finance probe.
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Now, Trudeau is insisting that parts of it are still going to continue, that documents
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have been handed over, and that may be so, but it doesn't change the fact that any ability
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for Parliament to deal with this, and more importantly, any ability for the new leader of
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the Conservative Party of Canada to have a role in Parliament more quickly, more imminently,
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So Trudeau is actually taking the opposition out of play, and I don't just mean the Conservatives,
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but all of the mechanisms of the opposition, the Conservatives, the Bloc, and even, yeah,
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the NDP, he's taking them out of play, doing exactly what he wanted to do at the very beginning
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of this pandemic, which was to basically say, you know what, we're going to do things extra
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parliamentar, extra parliamentarily, that's the term I'll make up right now.
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We're going to do things outside of the parliamentary process, and this is where, again, the Prime
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So we are, as Canadians now, looking at something that is not insignificant, and I don't want
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people to get buried down in the weeds about the importance of, you know, parliamentary procedure
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and all of this stuff, because, yeah, if you're a dork like me and you want to pay attention
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But even if you never use the word prorogue again, understand that in this context, what
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Justin Trudeau is doing is trying to immunize himself from all of the things that are happening
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right now, and from the House of Cards that, in many respects, seems like it is falling down
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And if you don't believe that's happening, just look at what preceded the prorogation, which
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is the departure of his finance minister, who's been his finance minister since the very beginning
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of the Trudeau government back in 2015, Bill Morneau.
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And on Monday, I started in a very facetious way.
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I said, you know, Minister Morneau, blink twice if you need help, blink three times if you're
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I was concerned because I pre-recorded the show.
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But I was concerned, is the show that I do going to be dated by the time it comes out?
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Because I knew that as I was recording, Justin Trudeau and Bill Morneau were having their,
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I mean, the show came out and still we didn't have any insight about what was going to happen.
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And then it was a couple of hours later that Bill Morneau gets up and says he's resigning,
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not just as finance minister, but also as a member of Parliament.
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And the thing that we should see about this as being particularly insidious is that the
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Liberals pretend that this was always planned, that there was, you know, no issue, no time
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Morneau himself, when he was speaking, it said, oh, you know, I was always going to, you
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know, not serve more than two terms, even though I'm not convinced he's ever said that
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It may be true that he was never going to be elected more than twice, but I've never heard
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And he then comes out and says, oh, you know, it's just this was the time.
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And, you know, we need a finance minister that has the longer term interests of Canada
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in mind as we look forward to a long term recovery for coronavirus.
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So his departure, if you listen to it, is basically something that we're supposed to think is just
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I met with the prime minister today to inform him that I did not intend to run again in
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It's never been my plan to run for more than two federal election cycles.
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As we move to the next phase of our fight against the pandemic and pave the road towards economic
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recovery, we must recognize that this process will take many years.
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It's the right time for a new finance minister to deliver on that plan for the long and challenging
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That's why I'll be stepping down as finance minister and as member of parliament for Toronto
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But this is coming after days of leaks from presumably the prime minister's office and
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the former finance minister's office about all the reasons that Justin Trudeau and Bill
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Morneau aren't getting along, all the things that they're arguing on, whether it was green
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energy programs, coronavirus recovery, deficits, all of these other things.
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And this is apparently completely insignificant.
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It's not about the $41,000 in travel that Morneau took from WE and only three years later
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decided, hmm, maybe I should pay that back here, you know, just have some pocket change.
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This is just because Bill Morneau wants to run for the OECD.
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You have to listen really carefully in these days.
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Maybe like everything else Bill Morneau touches, it will turn into a WE enterprise before long.
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But at this point, it's not the OECD, it's just the OECD.
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But Bill Morneau saying he wants the Secretary General job, Justin Trudeau saying he'll throw
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the full support of the Canadian government behind that.
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We are supposed to take that as a sign that, oh, see, everything is fine.
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You don't tap out of a financial crisis as finance minister in a country the size of Canada
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He claims that he was not asked to leave by Justin Trudeau.
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Justin Trudeau was asked at a press conference, I think it was the next day, if he asked him
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So it doesn't sound like there was much of a choice here.
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It doesn't sound like there was much of an alternative to Morneau leaving.
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I know we focus on Jody Wilson-Raybould and Jane Philpott, but there have been a long string
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of ministers that have not been able to stick around working for Justin Trudeau.
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Going back to, I think, his very first year in office, John McCallum and Stephane Dion.
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You've had numerous, numerous ministers that have left, all under varying degrees of circumstances
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and severity of those circumstances, but still we're not talking about as cohesive a cabinet
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as Justin Trudeau is trying to make everyone believe.
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So when Morneau leaves, tries to say that everything's fine, I am as a Canadian, I am as
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a journalist looking at this and saying this does not happen unless it has to.
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And, you know, for them to try to say that the leaks of all of these fights don't matter
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And Bill Morneau himself just said, this was, I'll roll the clip, but he just said, oh,
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This was just, you know, the vigorous debate that we need to stand up for Canadians.
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I had a constructive conversation with the prime minister this morning.
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We have always worked together over the course of the last five years in a way that recognized
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the importance of vigorous discussion and debate to get to the best policies for Canadians.
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I'm proud of what we've done over the last five years, working to make sure that we have
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a more inclusive economy, that we have a greener economy.
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And obviously you want ministers that are prepared to push back.
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And once they reach a decision, everyone has to be a united front.
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I don't think anyone disagrees in principle with that.
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But there is a difference between what he is saying as far as, oh, you know, we didn't
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really have any disagreements that were substantive and all of the media coverage of that growing
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rift and that growing schism between the two of them, none of which has actually been denied.
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This is the thing, none of which has actually been denied.
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So for the Morneau-Trudeau team to just put on the happy face and say, no, everything's
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good and, you know, Morneau's seeking a promotion, he's going to be the secretary general, and
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gave that just abysmal line that just makes me cringe and want to like shove a hammer through
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I don't even know what that would look like, but it wouldn't be good to say, oh, we need
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I'm like, can you do anything without resorting to the most useless and ridiculous of platitudes?
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Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.
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Yes, that's the circus music, because this is exactly what's happening.
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So she is just juggling as many different roles and portfolios as possible.
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Chrystia Freeland, deputy prime minister still, and now also finance minister, which is absolutely
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We have the first female finance minister.
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The downside is we also have the first Chrystia Freeland finance minister, which is the bigger
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So here's a woman who has no experience in finance at all.
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She was, you know, a reporter interviewing Russian oligarchs, which I suppose maybe you
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And then she was responsible for a business project at Reuters that was absolutely driven
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And after she left, they said, yeah, let's let's get rid of this.
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And then she's been a minister and she was a foreign minister.
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Nowhere was she connected to the finance portfolio.
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As far as I can tell, or any of the things that you would want to see as assets to a finance
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minister, such as, you know, business experience, management experience, finance.
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I mean, say what you will about Bill Morneau and a lot of his policies and directives.
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So, I mean, as far as finance ministers go, that's probably a pretty good, maybe not the
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guy part, but someone who's rich and has run a business, I think, is generally speaking
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going to have a leg up on someone who's not run a business.
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And it's not to say that wealth is a prerequisite.
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But if you're talking about managing the country's money, having some experience managing
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money seems to be a pretty good priority to have there.
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So when I look at Chrystia Freeland being appointed to this role and the fact that her acceptance
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speech, if you will, was all about breaking the glass ceiling and stuff like that, it has
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me thinking that this is another one of these displays of virtue signaling, like when the
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Trudeau government talks about having the gender lens in the budget and talking about
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having gender equality at the forefront of the NAFTA renegotiations, where it's like there's
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something very important that's being taken off the table to be replaced by something
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Because men and women are both affected by Canada's finances.
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The idea of putting a gender lens in there because, oh, we have to make sure that we're
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And for Chrystia Freeland, who in many cases has been the chief virtue signaler on a lot of
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things, certainly NAFTA negotiations, to put her at the helm of finance is not going to be
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I think a decision that will reflect well in the long run, but she has proven one thing
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Because Freeland, despite all the rifts that have happened between Trudeau and Dion, Trudeau
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and McCallum, Trudeau and Bryson, Trudeau and Morneau, all of these, Freeland has been
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And there's a reason that she is his lieutenant.
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There's a reason that she is his deputy and remains that role because she has proven and
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she has made that determination that she's not going to be the one that is ever going
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So she sets herself up as the heir apparent if and when Trudeau does resign.
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Although Trudeau did say this week that he is planning on running again in the next election.
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He actually laughed or more like cackled when, I don't know if we have that clip, but he
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like actually cackled when he was asked about it.
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Will you be on the ballot the next time there's an election?
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There are a lot of challenges Canada is facing right now.
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And I'm actually excited about the opportunity and the responsibility.
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I don't know if it was like the cackling is the tell that he's lying or I don't know if
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the cackle is just proof of the indignation because he can't believe that there would
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But but either way, we we market here on August 19th, 2020.
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But all of this is going to be, I think, a big problem for Canadians.
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I think Pierre Polyev summed up a lot of the frustration and angst about this when he
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spoke after Morneau stepped down as finance minister.
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We have a government of elites and self-serving snobs who look down on ordinary working class
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I'm not sure if that's true of the governor general, but it's certainly true of the people
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They think they're better than everyday Canadians.
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They think they can turn their nose up at the people.
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And they believe that they have a God-given entitlement to rule over the country and use
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That is the attitude of entitlement that we have come to expect from Trudeau and everyone
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I don't think when it comes to political barbs and we as Canadians are all the better
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for it, I think, or certainly all the more entertained by it.
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So this is where we have to take stock of what it is that we want moving forward, because
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They want to claim that we had nothing to do with Bill Morneau stepping down, that all
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of the disagreements, that Trudeau wanting to rack up monumental deficits and Morneau not
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It's all about the OECD and all about Morneau just jumping to this better opportunity because
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he, for some reason, didn't want to have a life in politics, but he wants to now go for
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this international organization, which is, you know, just basically supranational politics.
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So it's not even like he's returning to the private sector, which would justify the narrative
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if he's put forward that, oh, no, no, no, I just wanted to, you know, do a couple of
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years in politics and then, you know, get back to my real life.
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But we are going to look at this going towards the fall where there may or may not be an election.
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I mean, what that election would look like with, you know, public health restrictions,
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But we have a possible election opportunity in the fall, which means Trudeau has the next
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couple of months to try to make sure that the NDP does not leave his side.
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And if you want Canada to be in good hands, let's just take a moment to realize that right
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now the balance of power is being held by Jagmeet Singh because the bloc is saying, yeah,
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The conservatives, you know, will not vote to have confidence when push comes to shove,
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especially since they'll have their new leader effective Sunday of this week, assuming all
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You've got a few independent MPs, but I don't see them as triggering the downfall of government.
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Someone asked me about this the other day, actually.
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They said, do I think Jody Wilson-Raybould, who's sitting as an independent, will vote to
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And I really don't see it for a couple of reasons.
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Number one, she is to her heart, to her core, a liberal.
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Jody Wilson-Raybould, maybe not a capital L liberal, but she is a progressive still.
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And her departure from the liberal party, the capital L liberals, had more to do with
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her discontent about the management of it and Justin Trudeau personally than the aims.
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She still supports the fundamental liberal vision for Canada.
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So I don't think she's going to vote against that in favor of what would almost assuredly
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And the other part is that I don't think Jody Wilson-Raybould wants an election.
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She won as an independent, which is a very difficult thing to do in Canadian politics and
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So for Jody Wilson-Raybould to have a seat right now was the stars aligning, everything
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happening in the way that was right, everything that needed to happen.
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And more importantly, she had a lot more momentum going into the 2019 election than she would
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If she were to run again, there's no guarantee she keeps her seat.
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I mean, there's no guarantee for any member of parliament to keep their seat, certainly not
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an independent, and you take away what was national fundraising.
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If you look at her fundraising, a lot of the money that she took in came not from her Vancouver
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Granville riding, but from people across the country that were supportive of what she did.
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And also she won't have the media that's really invested in what she's doing.
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So for JWR, as she's known more colloquially to people, it would be a big gamble for her to
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support anything that would put Canadians back to the polls.
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So for those two reasons, which I think are pretty significant ones, I think she would
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So all of a sudden, no, you don't have enough independent votes to topple the government,
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So right now, Trudeau is going to be wheeling, dealing, negotiating, doing everything possible
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to ensure that when that budget and throne speech come out in the fall, that they pass.
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And all of a sudden, Trudeau will say, we have a renewed mandate.
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And I mean, Trudeau has, there's a little bit of truth to what he said, which is that,
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you know, the previous budget and throne speech are kind of meaningless now because the world's
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But I would also say that the next one is similarly going to be meaningless just for different
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reasons, because this is now the one when the liberals are going to be an electioneering
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They are not going to be government documents or public policies.
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They are going to be political platforms because they know that these visions are going
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to be the ones that carry the liberals into the next election, whether that's in the fall,
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whether it's in the spring or whether it's a year or two years from now, because this is
00:26:29.300
It's that Trudeau has to convince Canadians that he's the only one that knows what he's
00:26:37.940
And it's very difficult to sell that when Bill Morneau, who is one of the more or was
00:26:43.180
one of the more capable and competent members, albeit disagreeable in terms of his conduct,
00:26:49.620
but one of the more capable and competent, just in terms of qualifications, members of
00:26:58.660
I mean, whether you like Chrystia Freeland or not, she is there to stay.
00:27:02.060
She's around for the long haul and she is someone who tends to pull very well.
00:27:09.700
Those are really now the only remaining really high profile ministers that are really, I think,
00:27:19.260
I mean, you've got other people that are there, clearly.
00:27:27.220
I mean, you've got people in cabinet, but none of these people do as much to, you know,
00:27:32.180
trumpet the Justin Trudeau team as Freeland and Trudeau.
00:27:39.040
And, you know, it's amazing how far we've fallen from that, you know, ridiculous billboard
00:27:43.560
in Toronto of, you know, Justin Trudeau's and Bill Morneau's bromance with the hearts.
00:27:49.780
An American friend of mine saw me tweet out a version of this the other day and she thought
00:27:55.840
She didn't realize that anyone would actually, any serious people like the finance minister
00:28:00.640
and prime minister of a G7 country would actually put forward some photo that looks like it's
00:28:09.320
And I, as a Canadian, it actually pained me to have to share that it was real, but that's
00:28:16.680
In any case, we have to wrap things up for today.
00:28:22.700
And next week we'll have a new leader of the Conservative Party of Canada and we'll try
00:28:27.440
to get them on the show for a bit of a victory speech after those results come in.
00:28:32.060
Also, we are going to be doing a live show on Sunday night as the results come in.
00:28:39.940
Eastern time, but if you check tnc.news for details, you'll have all of the information
00:28:44.740
you need there, but you can watch a little bit of a pre-show, watch as the results come
00:28:48.340
in with us and then a post-show analysis of what happened.
00:28:56.580
Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:28:59.200
Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.