Juno News - October 14, 2023


Google vows to ban news in Canada (ft. Kris Sims)


Episode Stats

Length

13 minutes

Words per Minute

178.0362

Word Count

2,368

Sentence Count

147

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 I do want to turn to a related, although distinct aspect of this, which is that we were in the
00:00:13.900 midst of an international crisis. People were trying to figure out if their family members
00:00:17.940 were okay. They were trying to get on top of it. And if you were in Canada, you had a heck of a
00:00:22.300 time getting access to this news on social media, specifically on Facebook. Now, if you were a
00:00:28.680 Twitter user, there was actually a high volume of content coming out of the Middle East over the
00:00:33.480 weekend. But on Facebook, there was nothing. News links were banned because yet again, Bill C18 has
00:00:40.400 forced social media and tech companies into the untenable position of having to cut off the flow
00:00:45.760 of information to avoid being strong armed by the government and by the legacy media outlets.
00:00:51.400 Chris Sims is normally with us on Mondays, but we had a bit of a day off for Thanksgiving. So she's
00:00:56.500 with us now. Chris, obviously a horrific context for this, but whenever a crisis happens, it brings
00:01:03.020 around, I think, exactly why C18 has been such a dangerous piece of legislation.
00:01:09.400 Exactly, Andrew. You and I have spent enough time in newsrooms, both legacy media and our current,
00:01:16.060 whatever our new media is that we're talking on right now, to understand that the government
00:01:21.240 shouldn't be screwing this up. And they're at risk of screwing it up even more. And C18, as you point
00:01:29.560 out, we already see its effects with Facebook. So people can't, you know, share news links. They can't
00:01:37.480 comment on the non-existent news links and therefore share more information with each other. They then
00:01:42.540 can't basically gather and grow and, you know, commune with each other and share, share this
00:01:47.880 information. And in more Canadian Taxpayers Federation contexts than normal times, that would
00:01:53.600 usually mean something like about the carbon tax or being able to recall a politician who was, you
00:01:59.120 know, not keeping up their end of the bargain. But in this current context, it really puts into
00:02:04.080 perspective how important it is to be able to have access to information and news media that you
00:02:09.560 need. Now, Google is saying, yeah, you know what, we're probably going to side with Facebook here and
00:02:17.120 we're going to do the same thing. So we have a deadline. I think it's December 19th. Okay. It's
00:02:22.760 coming up very quickly with them saying, we're not going to have links, news links to news stories
00:02:30.800 posted on Google anymore. I'm curious, Google owns YouTube. Like, does that mean that there won't be
00:02:39.680 any more news links on YouTube? Like, that is how a lot of people, especially for my daughter's
00:02:46.360 generation and a little bit older, that's their understanding of screen time. Like, they don't have
00:02:52.440 cable. They didn't grow up with bunny ears the way I did. They don't get any other form of information
00:02:59.240 superhighway. That's their superhighway. What happens then? And so this is why we're saying
00:03:04.400 the government needs to back right off of this C-18 because now it is directly affecting Canadians'
00:03:11.920 access to information. And I would just say on the Google thing, I mean, one of the points that I
00:03:17.120 stress to people of all political persuasions is to never trust one particular source. I mean, I am
00:03:23.560 very proud of the work that I do and I stand by it and I love that people trust me and come to True
00:03:27.780 North for their news. But I say you should verify anything and everything, even the best meaning
00:03:31.880 people get it wrong. Just to give one very pertinent example of this, at the beginning of the show,
00:03:36.440 when I wanted to get the latest death toll, I went to Google and I said, Israel-Gaza death toll,
00:03:42.300 and I got four or five articles and I checked every single one of them to find the number. And there
00:03:47.060 were distinctions between there based on the age of the story. So if Google were to take away those
00:03:53.280 links, I would have to go to an individual site. I could go to the New York Times or BBC or Al Jazeera,
00:03:59.320 True North, CNN. I could do that, sure. But I lose that ability to get that cross-section,
00:04:05.740 which is exactly what the internet has been great for. And you move this to a Twitter context. Now,
00:04:12.100 for the most part, X, as it's now called, has kind of managed to fly under the radar
00:04:17.160 of the C-18 discussions, but it's not exactly clear that they'll get a pass on this.
00:04:22.580 No, it's not clear they're going to get a pass on that. And remember what feels now like a million
00:04:27.860 years ago, like last Tuesday, when C-11 was really stomping all over us when it comes to things
00:04:35.320 like podcasts and online shows. We need to stress that this isn't just podcasts. This is online
00:04:42.420 shows. And does Twitter slash X now qualify under that? Well, why wouldn't it? So their spaces are
00:04:50.580 live. It's interactive. People are constantly getting interviewed on them. In some cases, it's
00:04:55.740 hundreds of thousands of people listening. They have web videos on there all the time. They have
00:05:02.080 audio on there all the time. That's content. That is content, according to what everything I've
00:05:08.240 ever read under CRTC definitions. So then what happens? And to rewind, if people are missing what
00:05:14.320 I'm saying here, remember back when C-11 was passed, folks like you and me and Andrew and like lots of
00:05:21.400 folks, you know, not lots, some folks on the left in other podcast spaces were also warning about it
00:05:26.460 as well, that C-11 would alter Canadians' ability to choose what they want to see, hear and share
00:05:33.600 online. Now it was floated as part of Canadian culture, Canadian heritage. The CRTC is just going
00:05:40.860 to make sure that you see enough of CBC gem promoted and enough moose meat recipes and ice hockey scores
00:05:48.380 and all that great Canadian stuff. But the insidious and troubling part of this is that once you give
00:05:54.780 the government the chance to regulate and downgrade what's visible to you, you've given them the ability
00:06:01.720 to make things invisible to you. And so that means that Canadians, no matter where they're coming from
00:06:07.560 on the political spectrum, will have a limited amount of news. Now there's two regulations that have
00:06:14.280 been released last week. The CRTC said, you know what, any online body, to paraphrase, that hosts
00:06:21.820 podcasts or programming or content now must register with the Trudeau government, the CRTC. Why? Because
00:06:30.060 they're going to regulate them. The risk here, Andrew, is that why would big tech do this? In the same way
00:06:38.240 that Meta said, no thanks to C18 and now we can't see news on Facebook. Why? What's in it for these
00:06:44.480 big companies with the fractional Canadian audience by comparison? What's in it for them to put up with
00:06:50.420 this headache with the Canadian government? It's very likely that they could just say, you know what,
00:06:54.260 we're switching that part off and then we'll be in the dark. Yes. And I would also point out, I mean,
00:06:59.320 when you discuss, Chris, and I think it's a very valid point that I hadn't really gotten around to
00:07:04.160 thinking of in this particular context of promoting Canadian content. Well, we're talking about an
00:07:09.300 international crisis that's happening right now here. I would say the highest value content in
00:07:14.540 terms of understanding what's happening on the ground is going to be content that's produced
00:07:17.740 closest to the source. When you log into YouTube, it's going to give you the CBC version, the CTV
00:07:22.720 version, the global version. And that's not to say those outlets don't have stringers that they're
00:07:26.600 using and reports from there, but it's a bias against everywhere else in the world that is being
00:07:32.320 baked into the system, which is not the way the news is supposed to be. No. And that's not the way
00:07:38.400 that the internet has been for since it started. It's always been, um, in addition to and other than,
00:07:46.840 so it's always been the ability to go straight to the source and watch something live literally from
00:07:52.580 somebody's phone. Now that you can just watch it happen. And so that has always been kind of the
00:07:58.200 great equalizer. And again, to your point, by all means, watch legacy media, read legacy newspapers,
00:08:04.800 watch alternative stuff, make up your own mind. The point here is now you're going to have the
00:08:10.360 less and less and less ability to be able to check the internet and see what the news is and read what
00:08:17.780 these alternative news sites are saying and watch these videos, maybe right from the place that it's
00:08:23.100 happening and make up your own mind and choose. And so this is where, you know, to try to put a
00:08:28.760 smile on people's faces. That's what former president Reagan meant when he said, I'm from the government
00:08:34.720 and I'm here to help, you know, no scarier words, you know, this balance of alternative or independent
00:08:41.340 online news media and legacy media and legacy media's ability to share links on the internet
00:08:49.120 and get its broadcast message out there. That was working fine. That was working fine. It didn't
00:08:56.400 need the Trudeau government to come in there and fix and help and do stuff, but it has. It's neck deep
00:09:03.360 in it now. It's making a terrible mess of it. And they have got to realize this. They have got to stop
00:09:09.920 and realize, whoa, we're doing way more harm than good here. We are limiting people's ability to get
00:09:15.400 information. Sorry, we're backing off. That's what they need to do. Yes. And I want to just speak on
00:09:22.420 behalf of an independent outlet here, which is True North in my context. And I think we've had in the
00:09:27.000 last few years, a level of growth we're very grateful for, but we're still a small outlet that's
00:09:31.740 unknown to a lot of people in Canada. What we rely on as an organization is for one of our stories or
00:09:37.620 one of our shows to go viral and people start sharing it. So it attracts new eyes, people that
00:09:43.020 wouldn't necessarily go to www.tncnews in the morning to check out what's happening in the
00:09:48.220 world that learn of us that way. And that's what this has killed. It's killed that organic growth.
00:09:53.960 No, they haven't taken us offline. They haven't banned us from being accessed just yet.
00:09:58.580 But what they have done is they've limited the organic growth and they've limited the organic
00:10:03.200 growth of videos that you might do at the CTF. And they've limited the organic growth of outlets
00:10:08.200 out there that are independent in nature that I've never heard of. Because CBC, CTV, the Globe and
00:10:12.860 Mail, the Toronto Star, they have enough, I mean, street cred to, for lack of a better term,
00:10:19.080 they have enough name recognition that there are people that if you just tell them to go to a news
00:10:23.180 website, they're probably going to remember one of those and go to it. We don't necessarily have
00:10:28.480 that to the masses.
00:10:29.380 They're established. That's why they're the establishment. And that's why this is alternative
00:10:36.620 and it's growing and it's new. So exactly to your point, Andrew, like that impulse you have,
00:10:43.500 say you're talking to a normie friend of yours who's part of your family.
00:10:48.600 I don't have many normies or friends, but carry on.
00:10:51.400 Many of them have bailed on me as well too. So, but say one had one and say one we're talking
00:10:58.300 about it over Thanksgiving dinner. That's where you can, that's that sort of impulse of that share,
00:11:04.620 share, share that sense of sharing on Facebook, sharing on X, sharing on the internet, being able
00:11:12.900 to share that information and that article with your friends and family and old former colleagues
00:11:18.480 and maybe high school people that you've been in touch with. Like that's the whole point. That is
00:11:23.200 the whole point of sharing information. And now our access to information is getting tighter and
00:11:27.960 tighter and tighter and there's no good reason for it. Like I need to stress because sometimes people
00:11:33.100 just coming into the middle of conversation might wonder like, what kind of stuff are you guys
00:11:36.640 wanting to be watching on the internet? Like, what are you afraid of? No, we're not talking about
00:11:42.040 heinous criminal things, like terrible things that people want to be sharing on the internet that
00:11:47.960 are against the criminal code. Okay. Those things are already illegal. Andrew, if you and I started
00:11:53.220 promoting that garbage right now between the two of us, we could be criminally charged in Canada.
00:11:57.960 For doing such things. That is part of the criminal code. That is not what C-11 is about.
00:12:04.100 C-11 is about Canadian heritage. It is about content. It is about culture. Okay. And that is the risk
00:12:13.040 here because they're trying to squeeze and stifle that. Okay. And that is what is squeezing your access
00:12:20.180 to information here. And then we have something like C-18. So it's like this two-headed monster.
00:12:26.440 We have C-18, which is now literally blocking our ability to see and share news on one of the biggest
00:12:35.100 social media platforms in Canada. I think the last stat I saw, something like 20 million Canadians
00:12:40.680 have a Facebook account. That's enormous. And now they can't see news on it. And now Google just announced,
00:12:47.420 you know what, we're not playing this game either. We're going to take our ball and go home.
00:12:52.040 Folks, you need to contact your MP. I know there's a lot going on right now, but you need to tell your MP,
00:12:57.260 hey, my access to news and information is a voting issue for me. You guys got to get this all repealed.
00:13:03.800 Chris Sims from the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. Always a pleasure. Thanks so much for coming on today.
00:13:08.860 Thanks, Andrew.
00:13:09.700 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show. Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.