Juno News - Governor General shills for Liberal ＂online harms＂ regulations

00:00:00.000 Transcription by CastingWords

00:00:30.000 Thank you.

00:01:00.000 welcome to canada's most irreverent talk show this is the andrew lawton show brought to you by true

00:01:19.640 north hello and welcome to you all canada's most irreverent talk show the andrew lawton show here

00:01:29.480 on true north on this tuesday april 16th 2024 that's ad in case you are really confused and

00:01:36.480 you've been in a coma for the last well i guess for the last uh you know 2024 plus years it is

00:01:43.100 great to have you here on budget day i know are you so excited the federal budget's coming down

00:01:47.840 the pipeline and well i mean not to say a pipeline because the federal government would never use or

00:01:52.880 support a pipeline under its current form but a federal budget is coming out in just about three

00:01:58.080 and a half hours i think after the close of markets christia freeland's already gotten her 0.99

00:02:02.320 fancy budget day shoes which is a tradition that is rather insufferable but it's not a

00:02:08.320 partisan one specifically other leaders have done it so the mainstream media does their obligatory

00:02:13.200 write-up of christia freeland's shoes justin trudeau socks and uh maybe you know the member

00:02:17.840 of uh toronto center's you know bolo tie or something like that although i doubt the member

00:02:22.880 for toronto center wears a bolo time but nevertheless actually i don't even know who

00:02:26.640 the member for toronto center is right no matter what they don't wear a bolo tie all right well

00:02:31.600 all that is uh notwithstanding the fact that we are going to have a banger of a show today we'll

00:02:36.400 talk to joe oliver i to be fair already yeah no it's marcy ian is toronto center sean's told me

00:02:41.760 me it's Marcy Ian so Marcy Ian has worn many things I'm sure but a bolo tie I suspect is not

00:02:47.640 one of them although that might be a good opportunity to like go on to one of those AI

00:02:51.200 photo generator things and get Marcy Ian wearing a bow tie a bolo tie and actually she could well

00:02:56.620 she's wearing the bolo tie sing Chris Sims's voice of Alberta song which was AI generated so

00:03:01.580 then I can just take a take a late lunch and we can just leave the show to the bots that will soon

00:03:06.940 be our overlords. But anyway, off the bolo tide train, we are going to share my interview from

00:03:12.900 last week's Canada Strong and Free Network Conference with Joe Oliver, the former federal

00:03:17.520 finance minister, on his predictions and projections for today. And I also think we'll

00:03:22.540 check in with our good friend Dan McTagg, who is a former Liberal member of Parliament. He used to

00:03:28.260 be the guy when I was in radio that I'd go to to find out what tomorrow's gas prices were going to

00:03:32.520 be, but he has many other talents. And one of them, I think, has been very astutely observing

00:03:36.740 where the Liberal Party has gone since he was a member of Parliament and through its current

00:03:41.540 leadership, and why he is not alone if you look at the polling numbers. So we'll talk about that

00:03:46.640 with Dan McTagg as well. But I do want to begin by talking about this rather absurd symposium

00:03:53.940 that the Governor General of Canada, Mary Simon, convened to kickstart this campaign to deal with

00:04:00.740 what she believes is the real menace to Canada right now, online harms. Take a look.

00:04:06.740 I deserve better.

00:04:24.740 Je mérite mieux.

00:04:26.740 I deserve better.

00:04:28.740 Je mérite mieux.

00:04:31.740 I deserve better.

00:04:32.740 I deserve better.

00:04:52.960 Nous méritons mieux.

00:05:22.960 general all saying something uncontroversial which is that you know being online being harassed

00:05:28.260 online is not pleasant I generally speaking can't wake up without having been online harassed over

00:05:33.160 the night so it's good you get to check in on the harassment in the morning and sometimes you tune

00:05:37.060 it out other times something may be a little bit more personal I suspect and there are certainly

00:05:41.520 people who get a torrential amount of abuse that is far worse than what I get and it's terrible I

00:05:46.060 think we need to have a return to civility in the world but but but here's the problem with a message

00:05:52.900 like this is that the idea of taking aim at online harm which is what this is doing is an inherently

00:05:58.980 political one when you have a federal government that is pushing a bill forward called the online

00:06:04.260 harms act the federal government is using all the things that the people in that video would share

00:06:09.060 as a pretext for regulating and legislating what you can say and do on the internet now the governor

00:06:16.340 general is meant to be apolitical she's meant to be above partisanship she is the representative of

00:06:22.260 King Charles III in Canada. She is meant to, of course, sign off on legislation, but she is not

00:06:28.120 a legislator. She is a politician. That's the, well, she, I mean, she is now. She's not a

00:06:35.000 politician though. And that's the problem that we have here is that we have the governor general

00:06:39.200 stepping way, way, way outside her lane and being an advocate on something that his majesty's

00:06:45.960 government is now articulating as a political strategy. Now, the federal government, of course,

00:06:52.560 was all too happy to jump up on this. Arif Farhani, who's the justice minister, he's the guy who is

00:06:58.100 leading the charge on Bill C-63, which is the Online Arms Act. He was at the Governor General's

00:07:03.700 Symposium the other day. This was the tweet he shared. We know that online harms have real world

00:07:09.580 consequences and now is the critical moment to make the digital world a safe space. With industry

00:07:15.660 experts at the governor general symposium we discussed this and our online harms act to create

00:07:21.420 a safe experience for everyone so all of a sudden the governor general's symposium the non-partisan

00:07:28.220 apolitical governor general's symposium has been a campaign opportunity for the liberal government to

00:07:35.180 push its online harms bill but put that tweet up there by the way uh sean the one we just had from

00:07:39.660 irif rani i like that the one he wants to leave the charge with him is teresa tam so uh public

00:07:46.380 i mean online harm is now a public safety threat or a public health threat so irif rani and teresa

00:07:51.340 tam and the governor general are all in lockstep on the fact that we can't be trusted to just have

00:07:57.100 our own online discourse now i'm not defending harassment here i will say though that sharing

00:08:03.660 things online is a byproduct of free speech. It's, I would argue, a necessary byproduct of free

00:08:10.840 speech, which is why all of these social media platforms bake into them tools that you can use

00:08:15.380 to curate your experience. There are lots of people that have no issue using that block button

00:08:20.560 liberally. You look at someone block, block, like I've been blocked by people that I've never

00:08:24.820 interacted with because they just didn't want maybe one day for me to tweet at them, which I

00:08:30.360 I mean, Jan Arden has blocked me on Twitter, which is terrible, because if I ever want to listen to really crappy music on Twitter, now I'm denied that right.

00:08:37.720 But the thing about this that is so fascinating is that anyone who agrees with what the governor general has said, anyone who agrees with the liberal legislation has no issue with it.

00:08:46.800 My issue is one of precedent. I wouldn't want the governor general being out there and having a symposium on how dangerous the carbon tax is, because that is the domain of elected officials.

00:08:57.800 That is the domain of elected representatives.

00:09:00.660 Now, I'm not the first person to raise this, and constitutional scholars have, one of whom

00:09:05.640 was Philippe Lagasse, who's not a conservative or not a partisan by any stretch.

00:09:10.400 He is a very, very well-regarded constitutional scholar in Canada.

00:09:14.840 He says, the justice minister is explicitly linking the event to a controversial piece

00:09:19.560 of legislation that's before parliament.

00:09:21.940 The governor general's allowed herself to get wrapped up in contentious political debate, 0.98

00:09:26.680 which he contends i would agree with it but he contends is not right and then you also have on

00:09:33.640 this peter menzies who we've had on the show and actually met for the first time in person last

00:09:37.400 week at the canada strong and free network conference he jumps into the we deserve better

00:09:41.900 tweet he says the governor general has dropped any pretense of non-partisanship and is using

00:09:47.140 her office to campaign in favor of legislation currently before parliament this is appalling

00:09:52.320 we certainly deserve better yes in this case we deserve better than a governor general that is

00:09:58.080 going to be shilling for the liberal government and not just shilling for the liberal government

00:10:01.960 but shilling for one of the most dangerous and damaging bills this government which has been at

00:10:07.080 the helm for eight years has possibly and could possibly come up with uh there was another post

00:10:12.480 i forget what this post is but sean has it on my list here so now i get to react to it in real time

00:10:17.020 What was Nillie Kaplan-Mirth there? Was Nillie at the, oh, she was. Oh no, hang on. That can't

00:10:22.940 be Nillie Kaplan-Mirth. I see her face. Therefore, I've never actually seen the full Nillie Kaplan-Mirth

00:10:28.340 face. So that actually might not be here, but she was at the physician or the panel as well as a

00:10:34.060 physician and a school board trustee. She says she was grateful and she was looking forward to

00:10:38.940 hearing about strategies for creating a safe space for us as leaders. It's always great when

00:10:44.480 they use safe space unironically. Well, this should actually tell you something. So you look

00:10:49.240 at the guest list for this symposium. You had people like Dr. Nilly Kaplan-Mirth. You had

00:10:54.340 Rachel Gilmore. You had Faye Johnston, who's a very, very radical activist on a lot of trans

00:11:01.060 issues and received a lot of government money for her work, by the way. You had people that I have

00:11:07.260 only ever heard championing regulation, championing legislation. I never heard, and again, I wasn't on

00:11:14.100 the guest list. That's way too shishi and bougie for the likes of me. But I have not heard of 0.95

00:11:19.140 anyone being there who was critical of this idea, who said, yes, this is an issue, but we also need

00:11:24.760 to protect free speech. So it was not just her wading into a political debate and her wading

00:11:30.120 into a political issue, but it was her doing it in an incredibly one-sided way. And to appropriate

00:11:36.600 Peter Menzies' response to the Governor General, yes, indeed, we do deserve better. And again,

00:11:41.880 just imagine if the governor general decided to have a symposium on the budget. Like I said,

00:11:46.220 I wouldn't want her coming out and saying that we need to ax the tax and here are all the people

00:11:50.840 that are going to talk about cost of living and affordability. I mean, the governor general should

00:11:55.220 take on issues, sure. But it should kind of be like the first lady in the United States where 0.99

00:12:00.320 you are the first gentleman, theoretically, where you take on issues that are uncontroversial. I

00:12:06.220 mean, you can take on childhood obesity, you can take on literacy, you can take on drugs. But even

00:12:10.820 then, you don't take those on when you are a non-partisan figure. I mean, if she were to take

00:12:16.500 on the issue of childhood fitness, for example, which is a great issue, you don't do it when the

00:12:22.180 government is putting forward legislation on that. That's where you need to make sure that you are not

00:12:26.320 leading or playing a supporting caste role to what should be squarely in the political realm. And by

00:12:33.500 the way, on the case of C63, should be squarely and resoundingly chucked out of the political realm

00:12:39.100 because it's such a terrible piece of legislation.

00:12:42.200 But it is budget day today,

00:12:43.760 so let's have a little chat about what we can expect.

00:12:46.020 Obviously, we'll have more in the way of a debrief tomorrow

00:12:48.100 once we learn what is in the budget,

00:12:50.740 but certainly we can pay some attention

00:12:52.700 to what we expect to be in it

00:12:54.480 and what we hope is in it

00:12:55.660 and what we fear might be in it here.

00:12:58.260 I want to welcome to the show Ryan Mallow,

00:13:00.560 who is the Vice President of Legislative Affairs

00:13:03.000 for the Canadian Federation of Independent Business.

00:13:05.720 Ryan, good to talk to you.

00:13:06.760 Thanks for coming on today.

00:13:07.740 Good afternoon. Thanks for having me.

00:13:10.000 So from a business perspective, going into this budget, I mean, really going into any budget, but this year in particular, what is it you're looking for?

00:13:17.720 So I think much like people are looking for things around affordability, the cost of living, small business owners across Canada are looking for measures that reduce the cost of doing business.

00:13:28.300 We've been getting absolutely slammed from all sides over the last number of years.

00:13:33.260 anything that's going to reduce the cost be that around things like the small business tax rate

00:13:37.920 things like lowering payroll taxes paying very close attention to what happens on the carbon tax

00:13:42.580 and whether or not small businesses are going to get their money back that they're owed those

00:13:47.180 will be the key measures that we're looking out for in addition to what the government's spending

00:13:51.620 plans are you know one of the things the government has said is that there's not going to be a tax

00:13:56.280 increase on the middle class but as we know that's a term that's very difficult to define

00:14:00.640 And to bring it around to small business owners, we've heard in the government in the past, the government use small business owners as an example of the wealthy and governor and really not looking at small businesses as being, you know, really the backbone of middle class employment for people.

00:14:15.860 So are you concerned about that, that there could be something that, you know, on paper looks like, yes, we're going after the wealthy, but to a small business owner is actually just a pretty big slap in the face from the government.

00:14:27.780 Yeah, I think our ears always perk up when we hear language like that, because it's one thing to have an intention to go after a certain group. It's quite another thing to see how it actually plays out. And we have seen this play out before, specifically around the small business tax rate and questions around who had access to it.

00:14:44.200 And what the government had planned to do at the time was fiercely opposed by the small business community because it was really, you know, kind of railroading your general convenience store owner, your dry cleaner, not who the government said they were going after.

00:14:59.380 So while, you know, the intention may be good, it always comes down to the practicality of how it's implemented.

00:15:05.420 And that's something that we'll be watching for very closely.

00:15:08.440 In general, I mean, from an organizational perspective, has the government engaged with

00:15:12.600 your group in a meaningful way as this budget was put together?

00:15:15.880 Yeah, we've had some very good back and forth with finance, in particular around, again,

00:15:19.480 the carbon tax revenue, the $2.5 billion that small businesses in Alberta, Saskatchewan,

00:15:24.520 Manitoba, and Ontario are all owed. Of course, we've also been engaging with all of the opposition

00:15:30.440 parties, the conservatives, the NDP, the Block and Greens as well, to really make sure that

00:15:35.640 the the small business views and desires are heard of course it's really a question of how

00:15:40.520 that's going to translate on game day we'll find out at four o'clock i think we've got

00:15:44.680 some optimism on some measures but there is still a lot out there that worries us

00:15:49.240 not insignificantly what the size of the deficit is going to be and is there actually going to be

00:15:53.720 a plan to balance something that's been missing the last couple of budgets yeah and let's talk

00:15:57.960 about that briefly because you know we had this period of general you know economic goodness for

00:16:04.040 for lack of a better term, when the Liberal government first came in. And there's always

00:16:07.340 the battling about whether the Conservatives were the ones that, you know, gave it to them or whether

00:16:11.040 they did it. That's always the fight in politics. But, you know, at the time, the government was

00:16:14.900 saying, well, things are good right now, we can afford to spend. And then when things weren't as

00:16:18.140 good, they say, well, now we need to spend because things aren't great. And I'm thinking, well, hang

00:16:21.940 on, when's the time you don't spend if you spend in good times and spend in bad times? But here we

00:16:26.520 are with massive deficits and really not what we've seen so far in previous budgets, a realistic

00:16:31.700 plan to get to balance. Yeah. And that is a serious concern for small business owners across

00:16:38.160 the country. I mean, any small business owner will tell you that balancing their own books is

00:16:41.840 something that occupies a lot of brain space throughout the course of the year. But when

00:16:45.900 governments run deficits, it tends to turn into taxes. It tends to turn into the conversations

00:16:50.880 that we've seen leading up to this budget about new revenue sources and what that's going to look

00:16:55.680 like. And unfortunately for small business owners, they often find themselves on the wrong end of

00:17:00.160 those conversations and those policies. So having a clear plan to get back to balance, a clear

00:17:05.720 pathway and something that's realistic is something we very much want to see. Whether or not we do,

00:17:10.580 we're a few hours out from finding out, but something that we are, again, watching very

00:17:14.160 closely. I know I've spoken to your colleague, Dan Kelly, in the past. And one of the things that

00:17:19.220 came up in the last few years is just how many businesses did not come out from this end of the

00:17:23.940 pandemic. It was a very disruptive time. And some of this was a consequence of government relations.

00:17:29.240 Other was, you know, inflation and interest rates and all of these things.

00:17:32.500 And some businesses, you know, probably under normal circumstances might not have survived

00:17:36.660 as well.

00:17:37.320 But when we talk about where we are now, are there businesses that are still very much

00:17:42.920 in a recovery mode where, you know, they're kicking, but they still haven't fully gotten

00:17:47.980 back to pre-pandemic operations?

00:17:50.720 Absolutely.

00:17:51.380 In fact, I would venture to say that most businesses find themselves in that circumstance.

00:17:55.420 I mean, for a lot of businesses, you look at the downtown cores across the country,

00:17:58.620 the reality is very different between 2019 and 2024. Work patterns are different. We've seen

00:18:04.360 hybrid work take hold. If you are a dry cleaner or a lunch spot that depended on a nine to five 0.85

00:18:10.160 rush, you're not necessarily seeing that anymore. And there still is a transition going on in terms

00:18:15.220 of what the new business model looks like coming out of that. We are also concerningly seeing a

00:18:20.180 lot more businesses exit the space than we are seeing come in. And part of that is interest

00:18:24.580 rates but it's also just the the appetite for risk that business owners need to have to jump in

00:18:30.340 is a lot lower right now as well so again looking at how we reinforce some of the the small business

00:18:36.740 confidence that we just have not seen in the last four years i think the budget plays an important

00:18:41.060 role in that but also ensuring that again the the financing options the stability um coming out of

00:18:47.860 the budget is there for small business owners moving forward i i obviously on this show focus

00:18:52.580 lot on the politics but you know for businesses they have to take along regardless of who's in

00:18:56.580 power here so at the end of the day though i was wondering what i could ask you or if i could ask

00:19:01.060 you here what could the government do that would at least signal a possible return of confidence

00:19:07.700 or possibly trigger that what what could you hear today if anything that would make people that are

00:19:12.260 really not feeling like this is the climate to invest in to actually be comfortable doing so

00:19:16.580 so i i think there's a couple pieces there one the 2.5 billion dollars owed on the carbon tax

00:19:22.020 This is money that's already been collected. We want to see a plan for that to come back,

00:19:25.700 and not just a commitment, but a plan to return that money to small business owners.

00:19:30.340 We'd also like to see a plan for what is the plan for the carbon tax moving forward.

00:19:35.060 They are continuing to collect money. There's been conversations about what's already been

00:19:39.220 collected, less about what's happening with dollars moving forward. And again,

00:19:42.580 some certainty around that would be important. Also, in acknowledging that the cost of doing

00:19:46.580 business has gone up, what is the government doing to lower taxes overall? Are we going to

00:19:50.340 going to see any movement on the small business tax rate? Are we going to see any movement on

00:19:53.580 payroll taxes? CPP and EI are both up this year. Is there going to be any kind of relief on that?

00:19:58.620 And then I think finally, is the government signaling that they're getting their own house

00:20:02.300 in order? Is there a plan for the deficit? Is there a plan that business owners can be confident

00:20:08.540 that is stable moving forward is also going to be, I think, a pretty significant tell.

00:20:12.900 All right. Well, we'll certainly keep an eye peeled for that. My thanks to Ryan Mallow for

00:20:17.420 coming on from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. Thank you, Ryan.

00:20:20.680 Anytime.

00:20:21.680 All right. Well, thank you for that. And it wouldn't be a budget day without hearing. I mean,

00:20:26.020 you get two options. We can hear from Chrystia Freeland, that's an option, or we could hear from

00:20:29.560 a former finance minister who I find has a much more solid head on his shoulders as it comes to

00:20:34.840 economics. And by the way, that great economic period of prosperity the Liberal government

00:20:39.580 inherited in 2015 came on the heels of my next guest in the term in Ottawa, who I had the chance

00:20:46.700 to catch up with last week at the Canada Strong and Free Network Conference.

00:20:52.720 Well, anyone who's been following the descent of Canada's economic situation

00:20:57.060 over the last eight years or so has no doubt missed the glory days

00:21:01.600 of Canada's economy when we had the gentleman who's sitting next to me

00:21:05.260 at the helm, former Finance Minister Joe Oliver,

00:21:07.760 who's also become a tremendous financial post-columnist on occasion,

00:21:11.840 a national post-columnist in his post-political life.

00:21:14.020 Joe, it's good to have you back on the show. Thank you.

00:21:16.200 Great to be on the show with you.

00:21:17.180 I can just get you talking to your mic there.

00:21:18.500 There we go.

00:21:19.160 There we go.

00:21:20.480 This isn't my first rodeo, so I should know.

00:21:23.860 He's going to say what he has in financial acumen, he lacks in audio-visual capabilities.

00:21:27.780 But we'll make it work here.

00:21:29.040 Okay.

00:21:29.640 Let's just talk in general about the forecasting here, because this is a forward-looking event,

00:21:33.720 a lot of optimism about the possibility of replacing Justin Trudeau's government.

00:21:38.360 If you were a finance minister coming into this, how would you even begin?

00:21:43.500 Because the Conservatives under Pierre Polyev have talked about balancing budgets, lowering government spending,

00:21:48.760 but it takes a lot of time to correct the problem before you can do what you want, I would imagine.

00:21:54.300 Yes, well, it does, and that's why you can't say we're going to balance the budget next year.

00:21:58.700 That would be draconian and unjustified.

00:22:03.700 However, you have to set a target, a realistic target.

00:22:07.540 Hopefully, it would be in the first term of government, you know, let's say within four years.

00:22:12.760 But I haven't, you know, delved into all the numbers, some of which are not necessarily fully disclosed, shall we say.

00:22:21.280 But you have to have a target, a realistic target, and start moving to it, towards it.

00:22:26.880 What you have to do is stop the profligate spending.

00:22:30.080 That's absolutely crucial.

00:22:32.120 And then focus on issues which will enhance productivity, because that's been a disaster for Canada.

00:22:40.140 basically GDP per capita, which measures personal prosperity,

00:22:45.420 has been essentially flack for what, during the whole Trudeau government.

00:22:51.100 And that's what people, of course, feel.

00:22:53.000 They feel the higher prices and the fact that they're not keeping up

00:22:55.880 in terms of their personal salaries.

00:22:59.160 And, you know, the OECD has projected that Canada will be the worst

00:23:03.080 among the 38 wealthy countries in the world over the next 20 years and then 40 years.

00:23:07.320 So we have to do something about that.

00:23:09.320 And there are a variety of ways to do it.

00:23:11.780 I'd say one critical element is start developing our national resources and start exporting them to overseas markets,

00:23:20.220 which not only will create an enormous amount of revenue, employ people, increase national security, and also help our allies.

00:23:29.540 Then we have to look at the tax system to make sure it's efficient, that it isn't excessive,

00:23:34.580 that it encourages entrepreneurship and allows an affordable life for Canadians.

00:23:43.140 Focus on issues of science and technology to increase productivity that way.

00:23:50.940 But we've got to get more capital coming into the country.

00:23:54.980 We have a capital flight problem, the precise opposite of what we want.

00:23:59.640 It's not that the Canadian workers are lazy or incompetent, quite to the contrary, but

00:24:05.580 if so little money is being spent to enhance technology and they're having to work harder

00:24:14.360 than the Americans are and therefore they're less productive. 1.00

00:24:18.360 Not because, as I say, they work less hard but because they just don't have the materials

00:24:23.700 to work with which would make them more efficient.

00:24:26.980 So one of the challenges, and we saw this especially during the Conservative leadership race,

00:24:31.640 Pierre Poliev put a fair bit of the blame for inflation on the Bank of Canada and its money printing.

00:24:37.320 And I know that there was a lot of bristling from the Laurentian elites about this.

00:24:41.520 And at the same time, if I look back to the Harper government when you were finance minister

00:24:45.540 and even when your predecessor, Jim Flaherty, was,

00:24:48.060 I don't recall really any public acrimony between the government and the bank.

00:24:52.760 And I was wanting to get your thoughts on is that appropriate,

00:24:55.400 the criticism that was directed there, and what are the implications of that?

00:24:59.540 How much blame does that institution actually have for what's happened?

00:25:03.000 Well, we respected the independence of the monetary authority of the Bank of Canada,

00:25:13.100 but on the other hand, we weren't fighting.

00:25:16.280 Fiscal policy wasn't fighting monetary policy, and vice versa.

00:25:20.900 So we were trying to, you know, we're moving in the same direction.

00:25:26.740 Now we have fiscal policy, which has thrown a huge burden on the Bank of Canada,

00:25:34.380 which can't shoulder it all on its own.

00:25:36.260 And, of course, you hear from the governor and the deputy governors about, you know,

00:25:41.980 now's the time to break the glass because we've got a productivity problem.

00:25:46.660 We have a debt problem.

00:25:47.940 And the bank will independently decide based on data when it's time to start reducing rates.

00:25:56.140 They'll be looking at the inflation numbers.

00:25:58.960 I suspect they're going to start reducing rates, you know, fairly soon, maybe even within a couple of months.

00:26:09.440 But, you know, there are implications to that.

00:26:12.900 there's affordability but there's also the impact on the dollar if the if the

00:26:17.800 Fed doesn't produce rates as well so it's it's quite complex you know the

00:26:23.340 Prime Minister doesn't doesn't spend much time apparently thinking about

00:26:27.360 monetary policy and we know what he's done with fiscal policy so yes it's a

00:26:31.740 grand zero so far but you know I'm not going to give advice to the to the

00:26:39.420 monetary authority, but I think the government keeps its distance, but ultimately it's responsible.

00:26:49.580 So explain to me where a lot of this is going, because I remember when the Bank of Canada said

00:26:54.400 inflation was going to be transitory, and then we learned it was something that would get quite

00:26:58.260 severe, and even if it's cooled a little bit, it's still affecting people, and then you have fiscal

00:27:02.080 policy that is exacerbating affordability problems, such as carbon taxes and so on.

00:27:07.960 But if we look forward, and I wouldn't say that this has been an entire elephant in the room.

00:27:13.080 Some people have talked about it.

00:27:14.620 Canadians who have to renew their mortgages within the next one, two, three years are in for a rude awakening.

00:27:19.280 And I wonder where this goes.

00:27:21.520 Well, let me just refer back to Pierre Polyev's frustration, I guess, with monetary policy.

00:27:29.540 And it goes back to a hearing in the House when he was questioning the governor,

00:27:38.860 and he said he felt, Pierre felt, that we've got an inflation problem that's there and growing.

00:27:47.680 And, you know, the governor said, well, it's transitory.

00:27:52.020 It turned out Pierre was right, and the governor was wrong, and the governor admitted he was wrong.

00:27:56.860 So it was frustrating for Pierre, who wanted the bank to move in the interest of the economy and everyday citizens.

00:28:09.200 Well, I think, you know, data has sort of moved the bank, and now you're mentioning some of the critical affordability issues.

00:28:19.600 I mean, we know housing is really in crisis at this moment, and a dream has been quashed for people wanting to buy their first home.

00:28:28.320 And there's a lot of fear in the air because some of these mortgages are coming due.

00:28:33.820 I think, you know, there's going to be a lot of, I guess, political push on the bank to move, but it will move when it thinks it's appropriate.

00:28:43.560 But I think it will move this year, and I think things will start to get a bit better on the interest rate side.

00:28:50.540 I wanted to move to a very different issue, but one that I know is near and dear to your heart, which is Israel.

00:28:55.260 And I think in general, the threats facing the Jewish community in this country, of which you're a member.

00:29:00.760 And I wanted to ask about whether you saw what's happening coming before.

00:29:05.960 Because I think anti-Semitism, as many people have said, has not emerged.

00:29:10.620 It's been exposed.

00:29:11.600 I think it's always been there and people are being a lot more brazen with it.

00:29:15.080 But we've now seen the targeting of Jewish businesses, of Jewish neighbourhoods.

00:29:19.240 It's not just, you know, protesting at the Israeli consulate or embassy,

00:29:22.000 which I'd say is a legitimate place to protest.

00:29:24.540 It's protesting Jewish people. 0.99

00:29:26.760 And is this something that you foresaw in this country?

00:29:31.080 Well, I knew it was always a potential.

00:29:34.340 And I just want to say that here at this conference at the Canada Strong and Free,

00:29:38.720 I've been very heartened, but not in the least surprised, by the terrific support for Israel and for the Jewish people

00:29:46.860 and the remarks that our leader, Pierre Polly, have made about the Jewish community in Canada

00:29:52.420 and how he stands with, and we all stand, with all our friends and neighbours.

00:29:59.380 So, you know, this isn't all a dark story, but, you know, anti-Semitism has been a constant for thousands of years.

00:30:12.900 You can analyze why and what the rationale or rationalizations are for it, but it always seems to be there lurking.

00:30:22.060 And what is perhaps new is that it's no longer just a phenomenon of the far right.

00:30:27.340 In fact, it's less of a problem in the far right because they've been so marginalized.

00:30:32.920 They're not less hateful, I'm not suggesting that, but they're not as big a threat.

00:30:39.920 Unfortunately, in the left, the new postmodernism, intersectionality, critical race theory,

00:30:48.640 the assignment of people to two categories of oppressed and oppressors,

00:30:52.520 has worked against the Jewish community, which maybe wasn't viewed as an exemplar of whiteness,

00:31:01.040 is now, you know, we're all together in this, Andrew.

00:31:06.300 And so Israel is being judged in that context.

00:31:11.940 And it's been an opportunity, frankly, for some of this ugliness to come out of the sewer

00:31:20.120 and onto the streets of this country.

00:31:23.560 And that's worrying and, you know, a blight, frankly.

00:31:30.520 And I would take what you've said there and add to it

00:31:33.420 by pointing out that this exists in the far right.

00:31:36.820 It exists in the mainstream left.

00:31:38.880 And this is the challenge, is that you don't actually need to go

00:31:41.020 to the fringes of the left to find a lot of this venom against Jews.

00:31:46.940 And that has been...

00:31:48.520 No, you find it in the universities.

00:31:49.820 Yes. Well, you'll find it in caucus. I mean, you'll find it in the NDP caucus and to some extent in the Liberal caucus as well.

00:31:56.540 It's, you know, it's a deep concern and I think, you know, we hope that our friends and neighbours will see it as not only a threat to a community, a minority community, 1.00

00:32:09.580 but really a threat to Canadian values, an assault on Canadian values,

00:32:15.700 and a threat to the type of country we want to see Canada continue to be.

00:32:23.500 Joe Oliver, always a pleasure, sir.

00:32:25.240 Great to talk to you. Thank you.

00:32:29.440 That was former Finance Minister Joe Oliver on budgets, finance, and of course on anti-Semitism,

00:32:36.000 which was not the issue he tackled as finance minister, but certainly has been one on which

00:32:40.540 he's been very opinionated. And I think rightfully so, given what he's seen happen in his country and

00:32:45.800 his own city. And he's a Torontonian. And one thing that I find interesting here, just to go

00:32:51.140 back to the budget side of this, is that, I mean, he was a finance minister for a relatively short

00:32:55.100 period of time. But, you know, everyone wants to say that, oh, the circumstances have to be just

00:33:00.540 so they have to be just right if you want to balance your budget. And the conservatives in

00:33:04.840 2019 under Andrew Scheer. I don't believe they did it in 2021 under O'Toole. They had put in their

00:33:10.260 platform a law, a balanced budget law, basically a law saying that the conservative government or

00:33:16.820 any other government would have to balance the budget. Now, part of this is, I'd say, a little

00:33:21.960 bit superficial in the sense that a government can change a law. So a future government could

00:33:26.900 just amend the law to say every budget has to be balanced except for this one if it really wanted

00:33:31.420 to. But even so, it would have to sell that to Canadians. It would have to say that this spending

00:33:35.820 is so important, we are going to break this law. And I don't think any government spending is

00:33:41.020 really going to be that important. Now, I've talked about this with Conservative leader Pierre

00:33:45.100 Polly. I've asked him, look, how quickly are you going to get to balance? And he's not able to give

00:33:50.300 an answer. And I'm sympathetic to that in part because he's not there yet. So he doesn't know

00:33:54.920 what he's going to inherit. But at the same time, it also makes it hugely challenging for any new

00:34:00.920 party to take over any new government to take over and look at i mean again it's like someone

00:34:05.800 just racking up you know some bazillion dollars of debt on a credit card then handing you the

00:34:10.280 credit card and saying okay pay it off sure you can be as fiscally prudent as you want and as you

00:34:16.920 can be but you still are starting from a pretty dismal place and that's what canada is going to

00:34:22.040 look like for the foreseeable future i fear and again we'll see just how bad things are now but

00:34:27.560 But the government, remember, is in campaign mode.

00:34:29.480 So they're going to do all of these things that make it easier for people that are in the designated voting blocs.

00:34:35.100 And everyone else in the country will have to foot the bill for it.

00:34:39.620 Pierre Polyev did weigh in on this this morning.

00:34:41.780 He had a press conference in front of West Block with his, I think it was pretty much the entire caucus behind him.

00:34:46.880 And he had some choice words for Dustin Trudeau.

00:34:53.440 Oh, do we not have that?

00:34:57.560 I thought we had that. Sean says, shoot. I don't know if that means shoot. We don't have it or

00:35:03.080 shoot. It's late. Oh, we don't have it. Okay. Well, nevermind. Just, uh, you had to, you had

00:35:07.080 to be there, I guess, but, uh, nevertheless, I do have another interview from last week's

00:35:11.780 conference. I wanted to share with you the Canada strong and free network conference was

00:35:16.320 a great time. You saw lots of people from the conservative movement, but some unlikely people

00:35:21.660 there when you look around and see a former liberal member of parliament. Now, uh, Dan

00:35:26.860 mctagg is a guy who has been a fairly vocal critic of the liberals in recent years but he

00:35:33.820 was in their ranks for quite some time this was my chat with him

00:35:37.900 well we've talked a lot about the changing tides in politics people can become unlikely allies and

00:35:45.800 unlikely enemies but one of the most stalwart opponents of some of the very damaging and

00:35:52.100 economically harmful environmental policies we've seen in recent years has been from a former

00:35:57.160 Liberal member of Parliament, Dan McTagg. Now, I don't want to be reductivist. He's got a long

00:36:01.620 and storied career outside of his time in Parliament as a Liberal MP. He was like always

00:36:06.000 the go-to guy when I was in talk radio on gas prices, and now he's the President of Canadians

00:36:10.800 for Affordable Energy and joins us now. Dan, good to talk to you in the flesh. Thanks for

00:36:14.880 sitting down today. Finally good to be here and after such a long time, Andrew. Yeah, you know,

00:36:18.660 There are some people that haven't followed your post-political work

00:36:21.760 would be surprised when they look at you on Twitter and be like,

00:36:24.640 former Liberal MP says what?

00:36:26.460 But you've been such an incredible critic of a lot of this government's

00:36:30.400 environmental and economic policies.

00:36:32.160 And I wanted to ask you more broadly how you and the Liberal Party diverge so much.

00:36:37.860 Well, I think the Liberal Party diverges from where the Liberal Party was.

00:36:41.080 Members like myself who had the consumer file, the consular file,

00:36:44.660 people who were always concerned about bread and butter issues

00:36:47.360 being able to make ends meet, recognizing that the country is a very diverse nation,

00:36:52.260 not just physically, not just culturally, but in terms of its economy.

00:36:57.960 Manufacturing, mining, forestry, agriculture, and energy.

00:37:01.600 And all those things combined have been really at the core of why we're a wealthy nation.

00:37:05.940 We have in this government, particularly under Justin Trudeau,

00:37:09.120 a deviation from a significant one to the point where these things are being excluded,

00:37:12.660 ignored, in some cases reviled, and it's having an impact on the bottom line for every Canadian.

00:37:18.960 Is your experience, it's unique to you obviously given that you were an MP, but is your experience

00:37:24.040 something you've seen reflected in other people you've spoken to where they've gone through a

00:37:27.880 very similar trajectory to you on these issues or even other ones? A lot of them have simply moved

00:37:32.180 on. When I was elected I was 31 years of age, 30, 31, I can't remember the time, young guy, just

00:37:37.300 married a wonderful wife and uh i was the youngest of the uh of the of the group the average age was

00:37:42.600 55 many of those members of parliament are since deceased moved on or very much in their age so

00:37:47.820 it's hard for me to calibrate with others yeah that's fair there's no doubt that being in power

00:37:51.740 has made a lot of people believe hey i just want i'm a liberal i'm always a liberal i'll remain

00:37:55.080 that way i have never been a member of any other party but uh this is no longer the party that i've

00:37:59.480 served since 1978 explain to me what they're getting so wrong because it's one thing to say

00:38:05.180 I don't like the carbon tax because it's going to make things more expensive.

00:38:07.560 You're actually an expert in this space.

00:38:09.600 I mean, you know fuel prices better than anyone else,

00:38:11.500 and you also, by extension, know a lot of the policies

00:38:14.060 and drivers around those things better than most.

00:38:16.420 Party used to have something called pragmatism.

00:38:18.420 It's really the way in which it survived

00:38:20.300 and became the big tent party that attracted so many,

00:38:23.600 on the right, on the left, depending on the region of the country,

00:38:26.540 different languages, different cultures, different backgrounds, agnostics,

00:38:29.740 whatever the case may be, there was always a place for you in the party,

00:38:32.840 and you could express those.

00:38:34.480 You could articulate those.

00:38:35.560 You could actually make changes, private members' bills.

00:38:38.080 That's been lost, and it's become very conformist.

00:38:40.880 It's become very uniform.

00:38:42.760 It's very rigid, and it's all really under the cult of personality of one individual.

00:38:46.920 So whatever Justin Trudeau, and the name's important because, of course,

00:38:49.540 that's why a lot of Canadians put them back in power in 2015,

00:38:53.160 but they don't represent, I think, the common person as we're currently seeing today,

00:38:58.500 and a lot of people feel estranged not just from the political process

00:39:01.360 but this government in particular.

00:39:02.660 I think it's a dangerous sign, by the way, because as I see this, without any, I have not a member of the party,

00:39:09.080 I see the Conservatives moving further to the centre, picking up those votes, and they're basically legion.

00:39:14.380 That's why they will win the next election.

00:39:15.800 If you were Environment Minister right now, or you were Resource Minister, pick one of those ones that has control over this file.

00:39:22.460 What would be that vision that you would present, where you get to tackle all of these things that the government says are a problem and a priority,

00:39:28.240 but in a way that doesn't damage and harm consumers and industries?

00:39:31.920 I would listen to those consumers first.

00:39:33.540 I go to Quebec and realize that most people in Quebec support pipelines,

00:39:36.240 not as the elites are saying.

00:39:37.520 I would ignore the elites.

00:39:38.540 The top 20% who have a lot of money and don't care what this is going to cost them

00:39:41.480 have ignored the bottom 80%.

00:39:43.400 That's where the middle class was. 0.99

00:39:45.300 I want to do something tomorrow night, I'd say build a pipeline east, build a pipeline west.

00:39:48.400 I don't say that because I like the industry.

00:39:50.260 They don't like me, and I don't like them.

00:39:52.020 And I've been predicting gas prices.

00:39:53.320 It's caused them tens of millions of dollars in lost revenue.

00:39:55.920 By predicting gas prices, by the way, it's going to be up 10 cents a litre between now and next week.

00:39:59.160 It's already started in Atlanta, Canada.

00:40:00.540 A number of reasons for that.

00:40:01.600 You heard it here first, folks.

00:40:02.760 That's right.

00:40:03.540 So if you're paying $1.64 in Toronto today, you'll be paying $1.74 next week, Andrew.

00:40:08.340 The reality is that energy is extremely important.

00:40:10.840 It permeates our entire life.

00:40:12.940 To ignore it, to trivialize it, or to create a narrative that says we can get rid of it is insane.

00:40:18.380 At the end of the day, Canada, I think, increasingly is going to start to get back to those pragmatic ways

00:40:23.060 and say energy is our future.

00:40:24.920 We want to maintain our standard of living.

00:40:26.320 We better reinvest in it and do the things right,

00:40:28.560 which the rest of the world is knocking on our door and asking for.

00:40:31.220 And I think what's interesting about that is that oftentimes you hear a debate,

00:40:35.380 even among conservative politicians, about the value of a consumer carbon price

00:40:39.380 versus something that's more targeted at industry.

00:40:41.220 Now, I've always taken the view that that's a bit deceptive,

00:40:43.620 because no matter what, that's getting trickled down.

00:40:45.480 A company is not saying, all right, well, we're paying it, therefore it won't be passed down.

00:40:49.900 The only thing that changes is you don't have the line item on the receipt.

00:40:52.500 And in that sense, I guess a consumer carbon tax is somewhat more transparent.

00:40:56.120 Is your view that the mechanism itself is flawed or that there's a better way to do it?

00:40:59.640 Well, I think what we want, the aspirational goals are important,

00:41:03.860 but we've done too much aspiration.

00:41:05.400 We haven't done reality.

00:41:06.840 And if we want to achieve those things through technology,

00:41:10.700 then let's by all means do that.

00:41:11.920 By the way, while we're doing that,

00:41:13.140 take inventory of the great things that we've done in this country.

00:41:15.460 As I said, I'm not here to rah-rah for the oil industry,

00:41:17.940 but Canadians have this tendency of saying,

00:41:19.500 ah, shucks, we're not great, we have to do more.

00:41:22.740 Let's do that practically when these things become available.

00:41:25.880 And it's nice to say no taxes, let's emphasize tech.

00:41:28.720 We can do that, but let's ensure that we have and respect the laws of physics and thermodynamics.

00:41:34.580 In all of these things that we want to accomplish, I think we have to be realistic.

00:41:37.880 The world wants more energy.

00:41:39.260 They specifically want more Canadian energy.

00:41:42.280 And as a result of creating another $150, $200 billion in economic activity,

00:41:47.480 I can create more hospitals in this country.

00:41:49.440 The Liberals of my time always said we are going to take the measures

00:41:52.620 of ensuring that we build pipelines, that we get our financial house in order

00:41:56.000 so we maintain the standard of living that Canadians come to expect.

00:42:00.040 Unfortunately, this group of Liberals has simply lost their way here

00:42:02.840 and decided that those are no longer values worth holding.

00:42:05.940 I believe the rest of the world is finally saying,

00:42:07.420 as the Europeans are saying today, put a pause on this stuff.

00:42:09.740 And that's such a crucial point.

00:42:11.080 And I was speaking about this with Tony Abbott from Australia earlier.

00:42:14.420 And one of the things that he brought up is that

00:42:15.940 there are lots of people that say they care about this,

00:42:18.000 but when push comes to shove and you ask how much they're willing to pay for it,

00:42:21.060 it's amazing how little they really do

00:42:23.140 and how a lot of these policies are really luxury items for the elites.

00:42:28.400 And I think that's a point that's missing in Canada.

00:42:30.480 I mean, when a lot of these measures are put forward,

00:42:32.660 it's really saying that things like driving,

00:42:34.780 which if you live in rural Alberta, rural Ontario,

00:42:37.360 saying that's discretionary, when for a lot of people it isn't.

00:42:40.060 No.

00:42:40.880 Look, carbon taxes are the low-hanging fruit.

00:42:43.040 But when you start talking about clean fuel standards,

00:42:45.880 which is not going to be rebated,

00:42:47.700 which a lot of people don't know about,

00:42:48.940 which industry is saying, yeah, we'll go along with it,

00:42:50.840 comfortable in the knowledge they can pass it on

00:42:53.440 to consumers. Same thing for

00:42:55.180 all of these other mandates. We want to pursue

00:42:57.300 them, but I think we need to take a bit of a step back.

00:42:59.400 Jean-Claude Sainz used to always say, I want to

00:43:01.240 look before I jump in the pool, make sure there's

00:43:03.260 water in there. And he was right.

00:43:04.860 I think what we've wanted to do is

00:43:06.960 well-intentioned. And that's where Canadians are. They want to be the right

00:43:09.200 thing, but they also don't want to do it

00:43:11.040 in a way that's damaging their prosperity

00:43:13.120 and their future. And as a result,

00:43:15.280 turning a lot of people away from the very goals

00:43:17.040 that the environmental movement wants us to

00:43:19.240 be towards. There is a compromise. It's the Canadian way, but we've become so uniquely

00:43:24.040 focused on damaging one industry, manufacturing, oil and gas, mining, forestry, that we've done

00:43:31.100 ourselves a significant economic and social disservice. Dan McTagg, thank you. It's always

00:43:36.240 a pleasure. Thanks, Andrew. That was Dan McTagg. I think it was the old Reagan line that he

00:43:45.100 appropriated there i didn't leave the liberal party the liberal party left me but again if you

00:43:50.240 look at the poll numbers a lot more people in that boat not necessarily all members of parliament but

00:43:54.820 certainly people who have been lifelong liberal supporters supporters of the ndp uh perhaps non

00:43:59.700 voters uh that are all coming back i sean says people want to see the polyev clip so he's uh

00:44:05.220 he's done what the people want and has uh produced this paul i don't know if everyone wants it some

00:44:10.400 people are for it some people are against it but i'm for the people so let's uh roll that clip now

00:44:15.060 That's what Paliyev said this morning in front of West Block.

00:44:18.600 So my message to Justin Trudeau is this.

00:44:22.820 In one word, stop.

00:44:27.160 Stop doubling housing costs.

00:44:30.460 Stop taxing our farmers and food when our single moms and seniors are going hungry.

00:44:37.080 stop the inflationary deficits that are driving up interest rates and forcing Canadians to lose

00:44:45.080 their homes stop endangering our social programs and jobs by adding more and more debt for the love

00:44:56.540 of God Justin Trudeau you are not worth the cost so today will you please stop stop until common

00:45:06.020 sense conservatives can start governing with common sense for this country

00:45:14.020 that was pierre polyev his message to justin trudeau is to just stop now i would like to

00:45:21.060 think that i know a little bit about conservative leader pierre polyev having written a book about

00:45:25.940 him which is coming out in just a few weeks time but i suspect from his background he is well aware

00:45:31.780 of William F. Buckley, who was the conservative intellectual in the U.S., the founder of the

00:45:37.180 National Review. And he had a fantastic quote that I'll share to you today. A conservative

00:45:42.700 is someone who stands athwart history yelling stop at a time when no one is inclined to do so

00:45:49.880 or to have much patience with those who so urge it. So standing athwart history and yelling stop

00:45:56.080 is what conservatives need to do. Pierre Paulyev is saying to the federal government right now,

00:46:00.240 stop, stop, stop, stop spending, stop doing this. That is, again, I didn't come across in my studies

00:46:06.240 for the book, whether he was specifically a student of Buckley, but given other people he

00:46:10.960 did study, it wouldn't have surprised me. So I certainly heard shades of William F. Buckley Jr.

00:46:16.160 in that little clip we shared there. So glad we got that in. By the way, the book, Pierre Poliev,

00:46:21.860 A Political Life, comes out, yeah, I'm the author, Andrew Lawton, I'm not Pierre Poliev,

00:46:26.240 but it comes out on may 28th it's actually let me just check before i get your hopes up

00:46:31.020 i believe it's yeah amazon has it marked down which normally is a bad sign because it means

00:46:36.640 they're like just trying to clear out all this inventory that no one wants but the book hasn't

00:46:39.720 come out yet so i guess they're just marking it down because the algorithm said it was a good

00:46:43.840 idea but you can get that on sale if you pre-order it now for like basically 10 bucks off so it's on

00:46:50.680 amazon indigo is going to carry it we've got it from the publisher directly sutherland house and

00:46:54.960 I will be flogging it.

00:46:56.980 No, flogging it.

00:46:58.480 I think flogging is the right word. 1.00

00:46:59.760 I'll be pushing it nonstop

00:47:00.920 as the release date nears anyway.

00:47:03.040 So thanks to those of you

00:47:04.400 who have sent your kind words about that

00:47:06.080 and told me you have already pre-ordered it.

00:47:07.800 That does it for us today.

00:47:08.960 We'll have a breakdown of the budget

00:47:10.440 and some more goodies

00:47:11.280 from the Canada Strong and Free Network Conference tomorrow.

00:47:14.180 This is The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:47:15.620 Thank you, God bless, and good day to you all.

00:47:18.640 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:47:21.200 Support the program by donating to TrueNorth

00:47:23.260 at www.tnc.news.

00:47:53.260 We'll be right back.

00:48:23.260 We'll be right back.

Juno News - April 16, 2024

Governor General shills for Liberal ＂online harms＂ regulations

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