Juno News - September 19, 2023


Grassroots group pushes back against Liberal energy policies


Episode Stats

Length

11 minutes

Words per Minute

189.31575

Word Count

2,183

Sentence Count

113


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Speaking of Western Canada are the health and wellness of Canada's oil and gas sector.
00:00:14.380 Yesterday, we spoke about how energy efficiency regulations are driving up the cost of housing.
00:00:19.540 Today, we have a story that I found kind of interesting from Germany,
00:00:23.280 where Volkswagen has laid off a significant number of its electric vehicle manufacturing employees
00:00:30.860 because demand in electric vehicles has dropped thanks to Germany dropping subsidies of them,
00:00:37.720 which makes me wonder, well, I didn't have to wonder, I already sort of knew,
00:00:41.440 that electric vehicle production is an absolute racket.
00:00:44.400 It's only viable as long as it is being subsidized.
00:00:48.300 And you look in a Canadian context and see the billions of dollars that the Liberal government
00:00:53.480 and Ontario PC government, I should also say, have put into electric vehicle manufacturing here,
00:01:00.280 which will only have a market and a consumer base when electric vehicle purchases are being subsidized.
00:01:07.400 So this may not even be as magically transformative to the labor force as we're being told to justify this money.
00:01:15.580 And this is adjacent to a discussion I wanted to have on this show about a new grassroots group
00:01:21.000 that's formed called Energy United, which has at its core set out to tell the story of Canada's energy sector.
00:01:28.600 And this is a story that very much needs to be told because of how much misinformation there is about it,
00:01:34.300 certainly in much of the legacy media's coverage.
00:01:37.200 Joining me from Energy United is the campaign manager, Jarrett Coles.
00:01:41.180 Jarrett, good to talk to you. Thanks for coming on today.
00:01:44.020 Thanks, Andrew. It's great to be here.
00:01:45.580 So I gave like the one sentence summary, but I'll let you, in your words, explain what Energy United is.
00:01:51.980 Yeah, so we're a grassroots advocacy organization with a mission to promote practical environmental and energy policy in Canada.
00:01:58.360 You know, we're not just a drill baby drill organization or an anti-environmental or just straight up energy advocacy organization.
00:02:06.520 We believe that we just need to have much more practical policy around energy and environmental policies,
00:02:11.980 especially how we develop our natural resource and utilize our land.
00:02:15.660 And unfortunately, that story is just not being told.
00:02:18.980 You see a lot of the vocal minority pushing the policies these days that are really ideologically driven
00:02:25.800 and they're holding back our economy and they're hurting Canadians.
00:02:28.860 And we felt at Energy United that that story just wasn't out there enough.
00:02:32.900 And the impacts to Canadians on affordability, on reliability, just wasn't being examined or discussed.
00:02:40.420 And, you know, there are always trade-offs to everything.
00:02:42.900 And, you know, it's good to have important environmental and strong environmental ambitions.
00:02:47.120 But, you know, we still have to have rational discussions about the trade-offs.
00:02:51.740 I know you've particularly weighed in on these electricity regulations, which there's been some pushback on, notably from Alberta.
00:02:59.540 Premier Daniel Smith's government has been sounding the alarm about this, but not as much from other provinces to the same degree.
00:03:05.980 And I think they should be.
00:03:07.060 Why is this one you've decided to seize?
00:03:09.860 Well, you know, just like any good campaign, it's really top of mind.
00:03:13.080 The federal government just released their draft regulations last month in August 2023.
00:03:17.640 They're currently in a 75-day consultation period asking Canadians what they think about these electricity regulations.
00:03:25.020 And in our opinion, just the way that they're proposed and the aggressive timelines and then the way the mandates are structured,
00:03:31.540 they could have serious impacts to our grid's reliability and to the impacts on affordability with Canadians.
00:03:37.360 So that's one thing.
00:03:38.500 I mean, energy is essential.
00:03:39.780 We all need energy to just do our daily lives.
00:03:42.320 I think a lot of us in Canada have taken it for granted.
00:03:45.640 And electricity is going to be essential as we move forward, as things continue to electrify.
00:03:50.540 But getting rid of natural gas, which is one of the most sustainable and affordable, reliable forms of electricity,
00:03:56.540 we think is a very serious error in judgment that will hurt our ability to grow our economy,
00:04:02.340 create jobs and just maintain reliable and affordable power.
00:04:06.220 I mentioned in the lead into this, the electric vehicle thing.
00:04:10.100 But what I find notable about that is that there you have government policies and subsidies that are trying to manufacture a demand.
00:04:17.520 And as a result, then you have justification for all of these additional subsidies to ramp up production to meet that demand.
00:04:24.780 With oil and gas, you have an existing demand in the world.
00:04:28.660 And it's actually government regulations that are blocking producers from meeting that demand.
00:04:35.200 Yeah.
00:04:35.940 And, you know, I'm not I didn't major in economics.
00:04:38.760 I'm not an economist by trade.
00:04:40.540 But, you know, to me, restricting the supply of something that is inelastic, that just has this demand,
00:04:46.480 just doesn't seem like it's going to reduce demand for it.
00:04:48.900 It's just going to, you know, it's going to increase costs.
00:04:51.060 It's going to reduce energy security if we're relying on other countries to import it.
00:04:57.300 So it's just one of those situations where it doesn't make a lot of sense for us.
00:05:00.420 It's not really a common sense solution.
00:05:02.680 If you look at the campaign that we're running, we mentioned that the federal government did a forced phase out of coal fired electricity.
00:05:09.060 A lot of those provinces switch to natural gas because it's a cleaner burning fuel.
00:05:13.060 It's more sustainable.
00:05:13.720 And they reduced their emissions in the United States, for instance, the largest emissions reductions they've had are from switching from coal to natural gas.
00:05:21.340 Now, as they're still going through that 2030 coal phase out, the government's moved the goalposts on these provinces again,
00:05:26.580 saying that you can't have any new natural gas commissioned after 2025 unless it has carbon capture and storage.
00:05:32.040 But they've even admitted that that technology isn't available yet.
00:05:35.220 So we're really playing like a hope and wait game that could have serious impacts on Canadians.
00:05:39.640 You know, I think one of the most telling examples of this problem was Germany coming hat in hand, basically saying we need natural gas.
00:05:47.960 We need to replace we need LNG.
00:05:50.820 We need this.
00:05:51.420 And Canada looking and saying, all right, well, we've now been already so far behind.
00:05:55.900 We couldn't just flip a switch and meet that demand.
00:05:58.640 And the problem that I have with this debate and this discussion is that oftentimes it's years too late when we realize that we've missed an opportunity,
00:06:08.040 that we failed by not investing in the infrastructure ahead of time.
00:06:12.220 And I guess the question I would ask is, is it too late?
00:06:14.800 Has that ship already sailed?
00:06:16.820 I don't think it's too late at all.
00:06:18.280 And I don't think that ship has sailed.
00:06:19.500 I have a similar frustration with you when they say, you know, we're years too late.
00:06:24.220 And then you see critics of our ability to export our products or critics of the industry say, you know, it doesn't make sense economically.
00:06:30.980 But when they're talking about the economics of the project, they never talk about the regulatory burden that is increasing costs far beyond what they should be in this country relative to other jurisdictions like the United States.
00:06:41.400 Like the United States can build an LNG train facility in way less time than we can in Canada.
00:06:46.860 Our first one was announced right around the same time that the United States started building LNG facilities, LNG Canada and Kitimat.
00:06:55.080 That still is under construction.
00:06:56.740 And now the United States is the largest exporter in the world of LNG.
00:07:00.180 And you see other countries signing long-term agreements well past 2050 to maintain natural gas supplies,
00:07:06.300 where in Canada we have a very singular focused approach on just renewables or nothing.
00:07:12.040 And it's really more than all of the above situation that we need with the growing demand for energy.
00:07:16.860 Yeah, and just on that demand, I mean, you know, the one thing that a lot of the activists and the governments that seem to be beholden to activists missed is that you don't stop demand by restricting supply.
00:07:28.720 And so basically it means the question is who's going to fill that void and who's going to supply that demand.
00:07:33.340 And as your organization has pointed out, it's, you know, almost always these dictatorial regimes that aren't as beholden to these environmental pet causes.
00:07:41.900 Saudi Arabia, China, you know, Iran to some parts of the world and Russia.
00:07:46.940 Yeah, Venezuela is still up there.
00:07:50.140 Qatar, Qatar is like one of the biggest producers of LNG of the top 10 oil producers in the world, like the United States, Canada.
00:07:57.520 I mean, Norway are up there is like democratic and free countries.
00:08:00.680 Who do you want to trust to actually move forward to create a more sustainable product that we actually essentially need?
00:08:06.400 I mean, you know, we can't just say that no oil and gas is good because we're going to need that product.
00:08:12.800 And if we import it, who do you trust to actually make sure that that's going to be doing environmental sustainability?
00:08:17.940 If you look at someone like Saudi Arabia, Saudi Aramco couldn't even be listed on the New York Stock Exchange because they wouldn't provide the transparency necessary to earn that listing.
00:08:30.260 So what is it that you would like to see from, I mean, let's start with the federal government and then we can talk about provinces.
00:08:38.380 But from the federal government, what would be your top priorities for them on this?
00:08:42.380 I think it's, you know, they're just moving too far, too fast on too many things.
00:08:46.700 I know there's been a lot of talk lately about the carbon tax and the impacts of Canadians on that.
00:08:51.200 But if you really look at everything that they've done with respect, there's the carbon tax, there's a clean fuel regulation, there's methane reduction targets, there's the emissions cap, there's a sustainable jobs act, there's C-69, the impact assessment act, there's the C-48, no more tankers.
00:09:06.020 There's also just this kind of lukewarm support for the industry, which turns away investors and people that want to make long term capital commitments.
00:09:14.660 So really, it's one of those things where it's like, you know, you got to wait and let these policies kind of see and how they're working before you add additional layers of regulation that are just going to hurt investment and competitiveness and drive it elsewhere.
00:09:25.480 And it's just going to end up hurting Canada in the long run.
00:09:27.760 So I think it's kind of just a slow down, let these policies take effect and let companies catch up and show, I would say, progress in what they're doing before you hit them with another policy, especially the stick policies that Canada has been using relative to the incentive based policies, the carrots in the United States.
00:09:46.620 To look at the provincial level, one of the problems we have just as a matter of geography is that it's the coastal provinces that have been often the most resistant to the oil and gas sector, BC on the west and Quebec on the east.
00:09:59.680 So what is it you'd need to see from the provincial landscape to fix this or at least work towards a better model?
00:10:07.100 I mean, if you ever look at it, that's like a really good question.
00:10:09.680 I think you see the premiers getting on side a lot more with certain interprovincial trade issues.
00:10:15.860 I know energy has just become more of a it's almost like a religious sort of thing now where it's just it's a very moral argument and less of an economic argument.
00:10:25.300 So I think just kind of understanding those rational and fact based arguments, understanding that, you know, there are going to be impacts on affordability.
00:10:32.920 I mean, a lot of what I see today is people talking about the 20 to 25 years in the future and not focusing on the issues today and what we can do to manage those issues today.
00:10:42.180 So even focusing on more so in the present and how we can work on those policies to work on affordability today and less on like we're going to be doing this by 2050.
00:10:51.280 When who knows what's going to be happening within the next five to 10 years?
00:10:53.960 I mean, the last five years shows that we live in a pretty volatile time.
00:10:57.140 So I think it's just kind of that slowdown, the cooperation.
00:11:00.240 You know, it's one of those situations with energy where, you know, good politics often collides with good policy.
00:11:08.720 So I think it's just that leadership where we have to put forward that good policy, even if it's not great politics.
00:11:14.940 Jarrett Coles from Energy United.
00:11:16.940 You can check them out at energyunited.ca.
00:11:19.500 Jarrett, thank you so much for coming on today.
00:11:21.700 Really appreciate it, Andrew.
00:11:22.760 Anytime.
00:11:23.160 Thank you so much.
00:11:23.780 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:11:25.860 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.