Juno News - Guilbeault leaving caucus amid Carney's climate rollback

00:00:00.000 CTV News is reporting former Environment Minister Stephen Gilbo may soon quit the Liberal

00:00:10.280 Caucus. Gilbo is reportedly disgruntled over his government's rollback of Trudeau-era climate

00:00:17.700 policies and particularly unhappy with a deal signed with Alberta that could one day lead to

00:00:24.280 pipeline construction. Industry Minister Melanie Jolie was asked about it.

00:00:28.620 I'm a good friend of Stephen. I've worked a lot to bring him in politics, and he will always be a good friend.

00:00:35.200 I also think that I'm part of much more the environmentalist part of the Liberal Party and Cabinet,

00:00:43.180 but I also think that what we've done with the MOU makes sense,

00:00:46.900 because I also think that we need to be able to have one of the most important provinces

00:00:52.800 that is the main energy producer in Canada, part of our plan.

00:00:59.600 CTV is citing sources who say Gilbo will likely sit as an independent

00:01:03.640 and possibly jeopardize Carney's razor-thin majority in Parliament.

00:01:09.800 Prime Minister Carney says a referendum question

00:01:12.560 asking Albertans about independence is a dangerous bluff and not helpful.

00:01:17.560 when asked, Carney would not say if he tried to dissuade Premier Smith from posing the

00:01:24.400 referendum question this fall. Can I ask you, when you met with Daniel Smith, Premier Smith

00:01:28.620 in Calgary, did you try to persuade her not to put a question of separation to Alberta voters

00:01:34.280 in October? And I guess if I could ask as a second part, now that there is this question in place,

00:01:38.660 how much uncertainty does it create for investors who want to put money into a pipeline or any other

00:01:42.940 kind of project in Alberta look it's I mean the premier has proposed this the

00:01:47.920 question and other questions with it as I said earlier Tom we will look at we

00:01:53.560 will discharge our responsibilities look at consistency of the of the question

00:01:59.200 about a question if I can put it that way on separation is it helpful to ask

00:02:04.360 these fundamental questions no it's not helpful of course it's not is it is it

00:02:09.940 the democratic will of Albertans? Did they vote for this in the last provincial election? No,

00:02:15.740 they didn't. More than 300,000 Albertans signed a petition supporting independence for the

00:02:21.300 province. U.S. Ambassador Pete Hoekstra says forces inside Canada have whipped up

00:02:27.420 anti-American sentiment against his country. He says Canadian opposition to America makes no sense.

00:02:33.760 You've got folks who are doing everything they can to get the Canadian public to rally against America.

00:02:44.800 It just doesn't make any sense.

00:02:47.000 But do you understand where that frustration is coming from?

00:02:49.220 Absolutely no.

00:02:49.960 In Canada, because a lot of Canadians are saying, well, we didn't do anything wrong,

00:02:54.240 and suddenly Donald Trump put tariffs on us.

00:02:56.820 We put tariffs on everybody in the world.

00:02:58.800 There are two countries that have retaliated against America.

00:03:03.760 China and Canada.

00:03:06.060 You said it, I didn't.

00:03:07.780 So far, negotiations aimed at extending the USMCA-KUSMA free trade agreement have made little progress.

00:03:15.760 The RCMP has expressed deep concern over a CBC-APTN prank comedy production aimed at humiliating retired members of the force.

00:03:26.840 RCMP Commissioner Mike Duhem is not happy with the way members were treated.

00:03:31.000 The police union went further, saying it's a disgusting way to treat members who suffer from PTSD.

00:03:38.420 The production involved luring retired vets under false pretenses, then humiliating them.

00:03:44.240 The union wants the footage from that production destroyed.

00:03:48.040 Okay, guys, let's be real. Crime is up. Repeat offenders are released on bail.

00:03:53.040 Police responses are slower than ever.

00:03:55.320 And in many places, law-abiding citizens are expected to just hope nothing bad happens.

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00:04:57.120 Our guest today is Kirk Lubomov, a business consultant and commentator coming to us from Calgary.

00:05:03.560 Welcome, Kirk.

00:05:04.820 How are you doing?

00:05:06.660 I'm doing just great. I want to read this post of yours on X.

00:05:11.300 Canada brings tremendous strengths to Alberta, question mark.

00:05:15.660 Sure, but it also brings tremendous amounts of cost and red tape.

00:05:20.340 Canada is wealthier because of Alberta.

00:05:23.280 Alberta can be wealthier without Canada.

00:05:25.580 You can argue pro or against independence, but these are the facts.

00:05:30.520 I guess I would ask, are people in Alberta resonating with those facts, or do they still have an attachment to Canada that you think would lead to a no vote on the referendum?

00:05:44.480 Yeah, I think there is a couple aspects of it, right?

00:05:47.320 There is the emotional side, and then there is the factual side that people are voting for.

00:05:53.480 You know, a lot of people are touched to Canada just because it's candidates the way things have been, but the economic, and I think more important to political opportunity is much greater.

00:06:05.860 uh alberta's economy is about about one fifth of it comes from canada uh about a third of it comes

00:06:15.160 from internal consumption just a little more from then from capital investment and about a third of

00:06:20.720 it comes from uh to us because the us is our biggest export partner and most of our goods go

00:06:28.820 there such as energy so my post was in reply to mark carney who said we can be we're wealthier

00:06:38.900 together and and how much opportunity canada brings to alberta the issue is canada could

00:06:45.860 bring opportunities to alberta but they choose not to when you uh put extra taxes extra red tape

00:06:55.620 on alberta's businesses uh for them in order for them to actually be allowed to even conduct

00:07:02.020 business and grow it just makes no sense so the question is where is the bigger biggest economic

00:07:08.660 opportunity and it's not necessarily with canada the way it's going if canada wants to change its

00:07:14.740 way if auto wants to change its way then it's a fair conversation to have but when you tell us

00:07:19.940 we have to spend 30 billion dollars on a carbon capture project you know to build a 30 billion

00:07:26.740 dollar pipeline you know that's a hundred percent penalty on doing business with canada for alberta

00:07:32.820 so it just some things just do not make sense yeah i mean there's also talk about the fact that

00:07:38.900 a referendum question could discourage investment in alberta but it seems to me that's that's already

00:07:44.340 taken the place i mean he described the referendum question as a dangerous bluff he likens it to

00:07:50.500 brexit which of course he opposed but do you think that alberta would have a harder time

00:07:57.940 attracting investment if it was separate from canada i don't think so and you know even during

00:08:05.460 this whole conversation of uh referendum of separation albert is still really the top place

00:08:12.980 in canada that's uh getting capital invested in a number of projects from uh aviation from to oil

00:08:21.380 and gas to tech so it you know just a conversation itself as much as the cbc pundits that's getting

00:08:28.660 platform keeps saying that will impact alberta why would anyone invest in alberta reality is

00:08:34.340 We're an entrepreneur province, and we have a really good policy that are protecting our industries, that are freeing our industries.

00:08:45.700 And I think that is the biggest question here and the biggest political opportunity is if we can operate without having to pay ridiculous amounts of carbon taxes, without having to bow down to some ridiculous policy that comes out of Ottawa.

00:09:04.120 for one ideological reason or another this is the political opportunity and getting rid of it

00:09:10.200 will actually attract even more capital into alberta you know those policies are the exact

00:09:16.280 reason why why canada has lost over close to a trillion dollars in investment over the last

00:09:23.320 12 10 years or so so we can't be talking how uh scary to separation conversation is when

00:09:31.960 Canada as a whole has lost so much money because of liberal policies to begin with.

00:09:37.960 I tend to agree with you.

00:09:38.920 I think if Alberta was to decouple from Canada and ditch the regulations,

00:09:47.160 ditch the carbon capture stuff, there would be a massive sucking sound of investment into Alberta.

00:09:55.720 I think investment would pour in not only from the United States, but from Canada itself,

00:10:00.520 because of course taxes would be a lot lower and the i mean i i think i just don't know if that's

00:10:07.660 enough of a selling point for for albertans who many of whom still love the flag and still love

00:10:13.000 the maple leaf and still feel a strong tug towards canada and selling the idea of independence i

00:10:22.240 think has to go beyond the economics of it you know yeah would you agree with that yeah i i agree

00:10:30.240 you know the hardest thing to get people to do is change change is the scariest thing psychologically

00:10:36.160 for for us as a species of humans so it's uh it's something that we naturally try to resist

00:10:44.000 so the the independence movement has to really go even even if we're talking about the economics

00:10:50.880 really break it down uh and get the average person to understand the opportunity here

00:10:56.240 because one of the hardest things i think in canada especially this day is for people to

00:11:01.920 visualize the future and and we need to really play out explain people how everything will play

00:11:12.900 out how it will look like you know alberta independence is not against canada it's with

00:11:19.460 canada just being independent just being next door and i think it will the whole process needs

00:11:24.980 to be really uh i think really cartoonized uh to people just to explain it a lot better so people

00:11:36.020 don't have that fear of change yeah and see right now people think well we're losing canada but you

00:11:44.020 have to say well what are you getting in return right so you're selling them a new dream you're

00:11:49.220 you're saying this is a new future yes uh you know we had decades with canada but it's time

00:11:58.080 for something new for us you know we see a brighter future for alberta and then you lay it out

00:12:03.260 in the kind of terms that the average person can understand and whether whether or not they'll buy

00:12:10.220 it or not it's going to be a hard sell oh yeah yeah you know and i think it needs to it needs

00:12:15.820 to also focus on the political opportunity let's remember in alberta our politicians are good or

00:12:20.800 our government gets decided for us in the east by the time elections get to alberta that's pretty

00:12:27.580 much set in stone who's the government is going to be um we don't elect a senate we don't have

00:12:33.440 uh you know there's so much opportunities to

00:12:36.660 correct all the wrongs in canada's current democratic institution and i think that is

00:12:45.160 even a bigger opportunity than the economic opportunity because if we can correct that

00:12:49.340 the amount of capital the debt in itself will attract it would be absolutely spectacular if we

00:12:55.120 can create a jurisdiction that that has a lot more uh a lot more freedoms and a lot more rights in it

00:13:03.320 a lot more opportunities to actually select your government it's absolutely massive and i think

00:13:11.200 it's kind of there's a little bit of hypocrisy here because especially for mark carney as he

00:13:16.800 calls us the most european on european country and he's a big fan of to you and to you is essentially

00:13:23.480 broke it down to a bunch of countries that you can you know that you can arguably say that should

00:13:31.880 have some of them should be combined i should have not some of them have a history of how they

00:13:37.380 came together or formed into a country and canada is just late to that game and it's uh

00:13:43.540 you know if every province was his own country we were essentially our own eu ish and uh so i find

00:13:51.220 it interesting that uh he's against all this independence between canada but you know he's

00:13:57.940 all for it within the eu yeah i mean unfortunately for people like danielle smith who i understand

00:14:05.540 you know she's a federalist and still believes in canada but you can make the case that arguing for

00:14:12.100 the federalist side is basically arguing is defending the status quo in canada because

00:14:19.780 there's not going to be a huge change as a result of this mou i mean we've already seen

00:14:25.540 what it is we all you know we it's already still a problem for the industry they've

00:14:31.620 already been clear about that you talked about it yourself this carbon capture the 30 billion dollars

00:14:37.380 that it's going to cost this carbon is how much is going to add to the price of a barrel of oil

00:14:42.100 i mean it's just not going to be cost effective for investors to get in and under the current

00:14:48.820 regime as it's spelled out in the mou and so albertans have to be told if they're going to

00:14:55.460 to argue if they're going to vote in favor of separation is that the other side wants the

00:15:01.640 status quo. You know, they've got a huge stake, a financial stake and a power stake in keeping

00:15:10.080 things just the way they are. They like it just the way they are. The power is concentrated in

00:15:13.920 Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal, and they intend to keep it that way. They have no incentive

00:15:20.620 to to change things because things are good for them you know what i'm saying yeah yeah and and

00:15:28.540 it's good for all parties right these career politicians from all sides they get the automatic

00:15:33.740 raises in april uh but my question is what have you done for alberta okay you say you're against

00:15:39.580 independence okay so what taxes have you reduced for alberta what extra democratic rights have you

00:15:45.660 brought to alberta what extra economic freedoms have you brought to alberta and not a lot of

00:15:51.020 people can actually answer that and i think that is the problem you know danielle smith i don't

00:15:55.580 think she should be pro-independence in general in her role um you know even though she is never

00:16:02.380 pro-independence so i'm okay with it but the but i and it goes back to your point especially with

00:16:09.500 the mou um we should no province forget about alberta no province in canada should be begging

00:16:16.380 canada to do business ottawa should be coming to every single province and asking every single

00:16:23.020 province every single premier how can we what red tape can we remove to unleash your economy

00:16:28.540 what can what taxes can we reduce to unleash your economy but we have such an opposite

00:16:33.900 i'm absolutely lunatic of this lunacy of a system here where in order for us to do business we have

00:16:39.900 to agree to a whole bunch of new taxes a whole bunch of red tape and then fund which is basically

00:16:47.180 extortion fund a different business that has nothing to do with the core product of what

00:16:52.300 we're trying to do in order to even talk about building that industry it's absolutely insane

00:16:59.500 it's completely backwards so and you know danielle smith and others just called it meeting in the

00:17:05.020 middle you know it's it's it's so uh it's such a political political political uh you know

00:17:15.900 language here that we met in the middle of this mo you we gave up every single thing to mark

00:17:23.020 carny on a silver platter in order to even be allowed to produce more oil it's a it makes no

00:17:29.880 sense yeah it's an anti-growth policy and it's very um top-down you know centralized attitude

00:17:38.540 that they have over there they've got the power and they like they like it that way you know yeah

00:17:43.900 and so for whatever reason they've adopted an a policy that actually stifles growth

00:17:50.420 and that's not going to change.

00:17:54.100 And so Albertans need to understand that.

00:17:57.080 And, you know, when it comes down to

00:17:58.640 what kind of future do you want for your kids?

00:18:00.800 You want more of the same

00:18:01.880 because that's what you're going to get.

00:18:04.320 If you vote for more of the same,

00:18:06.120 that's what you're going to get

00:18:07.080 is more of the same.

00:18:08.640 And it's a question of selling it

00:18:10.860 because Canadians,

00:18:12.820 including people in Alberta,

00:18:13.780 you know, they are,

00:18:16.060 they can be emotional too.

00:18:18.420 It's not just about numbers for them.

00:18:20.420 and you can make a case you know in dollars and cents you're going to be better off you're going

00:18:25.460 to be richer you know your house is going to be worth more your job is going to pay all these

00:18:31.540 things are going to be great but if they can't establish some kind of vision for the future for

00:18:37.780 the province and from a cultural vantage point you got to win the cultural war because ottawa

00:18:44.100 knows all about that liberals in particular they know all about cultural wars and you know

00:18:50.260 know they're they're geniuses at capitalizing on that and all you have to do is listen to you know

00:18:57.200 people like jason kenny make a case for canada based on sentimentality and you know you really

00:19:03.440 want to tear it apart you know what i mean even though you've got you've got your spouse is abusing

00:19:09.920 you they could still make that case you know and say we're better together you know let's stick it

00:19:16.120 out you know we got a great thing going well it's great for you but it's not so great for us and you

00:19:21.240 don't want to make the kind of changes that would make us want to stay yeah exactly yeah and and you

00:19:27.640 know if you if we look the current uh timing of the of the things right every every opportunity

00:19:34.920 mark carney has he has to tell us how dangerous the world has become how uncertain and you know

00:19:40.920 how bad the economy is and blah blah blah and they still won't drop their ideological policies

00:19:47.240 and red tape that's holding a can at the back yeah so if during this times the liberals just

00:19:54.120 do not want to pivot from this nonsense of policies they will never pivot from it and this is that's

00:20:01.240 the bottom line of it uh you know we're still going to be neighbors forever um if we're yeah

00:20:06.600 if Alberta independence succeeds,

00:20:09.700 it's just we're going to have a different economic

00:20:12.120 and democratic outlook.

00:20:14.180 And I think that is the biggest opportunity here.

00:20:17.820 Yeah.

00:20:18.540 What about the future of Danielle Smith here?

00:20:21.360 I mean, she's at the center of all this. 0.99

00:20:22.940 She's trying to walk a tightrope.

00:20:24.820 She knows that the majority of people in the UCP,

00:20:28.980 her party, probably support independence.

00:20:32.500 But she's a federalist and she's dealing with Carney.

00:20:35.160 They seem to have a good relationship, a good working relationship.

00:20:39.400 She's trying to sell this MOU to people in her party and across the province.

00:20:44.080 And there's kind of a reluctance to accept anything that Ottawa offers.

00:20:50.020 What happens to her here?

00:20:53.840 Yeah, it's an interesting question.

00:20:56.000 um because uh you know even her inner circle is trying to push this uh the success and try to

00:21:03.600 rebuke the same words that mark carney is using uh as uh if extra taxes are going to make our

00:21:09.760 economy more uh competitive uh which is complete nonsense uh it's unfortunate to see that's coming

00:21:16.960 from danielle smith's circle and you know and i've i've said this once and i've said it and

00:21:21.680 i'll say it again i think the people danielle smith has around her are is just are completely

00:21:27.680 incompetent and unambitious and that's essentially the most unfortunate part about her premiership

00:21:34.000 now the thing is in can the people don't necessarily vote for the person the vote

00:21:40.400 against a different person so one of the best things to happen to the ucp and to daniel smith

00:21:47.200 is nahid nenshi the guy is so unlikable so uh incompetent uh you know he left calgary as a

00:21:56.000 mayor with uh uh you know with tax year after year of tax increases crumbling infrastructure

00:22:03.760 uh just just complete mismanagement and that is that that is essentially the best thing that could

00:22:09.760 have happened for ucp and daniel smith is that people will just not vote for the ndp just because

00:22:17.200 of Nahid Nanshi's record and that he's just, you know, his whole campaign is based on lies

00:22:25.920 and outrage, which is unfortunate.

00:22:28.560 If the NDP had someone a little more central, a little more level-headed, a little more

00:22:36.200 grounded, the ECP would be in a lot of trouble.

00:22:40.060 But I think this is the best thing that could have happened to them right now.

00:22:46.080 Thank you so much, Kirk.

00:22:47.360 Appreciate you coming on the show once again.

00:22:49.500 My pleasure.

00:22:50.600 Kirk Lubomov.

00:22:51.840 If you enjoyed the show, consider supporting independent journalism by becoming a premier

00:22:56.400 member of Juno News.

00:22:58.460 Please go to junonews.com backslash straight up.

00:23:02.700 You can find the link below.

00:23:03.920 It helps us do what we do.

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00:23:05.800 We'll see you next time.

Juno News - May 27, 2026

Guilbeault leaving caucus amid Carney's climate rollback

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