Juno News - May 18, 2021


Hamas Apologetics


Episode Stats


Length

39 minutes

Words per minute

175.11685

Word count

6,894

Sentence count

344

Harmful content

Misogyny

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

23

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of The Andrew Lawton Show, I discuss anti-Semitism in Canada and its relationship with the Israel-Hamas conflict, as well as a new open letter from Canadian journalists demanding fair and balanced coverage of Israel and Palestine.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:06.520 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:12.720 Coming up, biased journalists, fake MacBooks, and ejected caucus members.
00:00:20.560 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:26.580 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:29.840 This is the Andrew Lawton Show on True North.
00:00:32.620 It is Tuesday, May 18th, 2021.
00:00:36.020 Thank you so much for tuning in to the program today.
00:00:39.600 A lot of the stuff I want to talk about today is really extending on things that we talked about in the last couple of weeks.
00:00:47.240 Issues that are still very much front and center, although certainly permeating through different areas of society.
00:00:53.820 And I actually want to begin by talking about what's happening in the Middle East.
00:00:57.300 The latest flare-up between Israel and Hamas is now entering its second week.
00:01:02.720 The rockets are still flying into Israel.
00:01:05.140 Israel is still defending itself.
00:01:07.180 But the anti-Israel rhetoric is ratcheting way, way, way up.
00:01:13.600 I'm going to talk about a little bit of the anti-Semitism that we're seeing in communities across Canada and around the world.
00:01:19.600 But I want to talk about it through the lens of the media first.
00:01:23.220 Because last week on the show, I spoke with Mike Fagelman, who is the executive director of Honest Reporting Canada.
00:01:29.740 And Mike does a great job of tracking all of the examples, not just of bias, but of actually just plain factual errors or misinformation or perhaps disinformation
00:01:41.880 that we see coming from the mainstream media when it comes to Israel issues.
00:01:46.440 And he does this, he does it all the time.
00:01:48.520 He's had lots to write about in the last little while.
00:01:51.860 Over the weekend, there was an open letter that was circulating purportedly among Canadian journalists.
00:01:57.620 But it sort of just extended beyond that and became a letter for garden-variety activists and opinionated people.
00:02:04.300 But the letter has a very clear mandate, an open letter to Canadian newsrooms on covering Israel-Palestine.
00:02:11.620 The letter is meant for journalists to sign to establish their position on how Israel issues should be covered,
00:02:19.180 how Israel-Palestine issues should be covered specifically.
00:02:22.860 And the letter points out, oh, the Middle East is complicated.
00:02:25.480 We need to hear both sides.
00:02:27.040 Everyone has a lot of emotions about this.
00:02:29.260 They don't point that out because they agree with it.
00:02:31.480 They point that out to actually dismantle those ideas by saying that they are just excuses
00:02:36.900 that news editors have provided to Canadian journalists trying to cover the escalated violence.
00:02:42.960 They say there is no nuanced Canadian media coverage.
00:02:47.160 They say the media is not covering international human rights violations.
00:02:52.120 They say that Canadian journalists need to do what they did with the George Floyd protests
00:02:56.100 and start taking really an activist lens against Israel when covering the Israel-Hamas conflict.
00:03:03.280 And they make a bunch of claims in this that are contested allegations that they say journalists need to report on us facts.
00:03:12.000 Like, for example, that Israel is in, quote, grave breach of international law.
00:03:16.620 That Israel is guilty of, quote, ethnic cleansing, unquote.
00:03:21.280 That there is dispossession, violence against innocent civilians and children, state-sanctioned racism.
00:03:27.180 But they say journalists are tiptoeing around these issues.
00:03:30.160 Now, all of the examples of media bias on this we talked about last week
00:03:34.100 suggest that the journalists are already kind of on side with this.
00:03:38.280 They're already biased against Israel in a lot of their coverage at a number of outlets.
00:03:43.340 But this letter goes and says that they need to go even further.
00:03:49.080 And they make a claim at the end of it that sounds noble enough.
00:03:52.520 They say that there should be in-depth, fair, and balanced coverage.
00:03:55.860 That the tenets of journalism should apply to Canadian coverage
00:03:59.240 of the occupied Palestinian territories moving forward.
00:04:03.800 And sure, fair, balanced coverage, this is a good thing.
00:04:06.800 I don't dispute that.
00:04:07.740 But it's all of the preambulatory clauses that lead up to that point
00:04:12.280 that are not talking about showing both sides.
00:04:15.100 In fact, the signatories of this letter actually oppose both sides
00:04:19.900 because they view this not as an issue where there is a contest.
00:04:24.440 They view it as an issue where their side is the right side.
00:04:29.000 And you look at this letter, 45 pages of signatures.
00:04:31.760 As of the time I record this, it's up to about 2,100.
00:04:35.320 Most of these people are not journalists.
00:04:37.220 There are individuals, activists, architect.
00:04:40.300 I saw one person put down their job as housewife. 1.00
00:04:43.460 But if you look through it,
00:04:45.620 it's astonishing how many mainstream media reporters there are.
00:04:50.020 I did a little control F for CBC and found 32 mentions.
00:04:54.960 Now, a couple of those are in the preamble.
00:04:57.220 But approximately 30 CBC staff from producers to reporters have signed this.
00:05:02.140 You look up Toronto Star, very similar thing.
00:05:05.560 I see actually 21 people who associated their job title as being with the Toronto Star.
00:05:12.120 I think about five with the Globe and Mail.
00:05:14.400 And it goes on with CTV, Global.
00:05:16.800 And not just columnists, not just opinionated people,
00:05:19.640 but those who are supposed to be unbiased, objective reporters.
00:05:24.040 And I'm not going to go through them.
00:05:26.020 You can look through the names yourself.
00:05:27.580 The point of the matter is we should be grateful in some way
00:05:30.480 because these folks are outing their own bias.
00:05:33.080 They're outing the fact that they want to not just cover Israel-Palestine issues,
00:05:38.340 but impose their view on these issues,
00:05:41.260 which is political, which is partisan, which is charged and loaded.
00:05:45.320 And they want to impose that on their coverage
00:05:47.840 and the coverage from other people in their newsrooms.
00:05:51.980 You know, the rhetoric that's being adopted here
00:05:54.080 is actually rhetoric that's driven by the political left,
00:05:57.140 by campus activists, by people in academia.
00:06:00.440 So it's unsurprising, but still concerning,
00:06:03.280 that it has seeped its way into media coverage,
00:06:07.300 that it seeped its way into a way,
00:06:09.620 the way that journalists are, again,
00:06:11.240 supposed to be objectively covering this.
00:06:15.000 When they talk about terms like ethnic cleansing,
00:06:17.560 by the way, let me just take a step back here.
00:06:19.900 Gaza has one of the highest birth rates in the world.
00:06:23.940 It has one of the largest population growths in the world.
00:06:28.480 If Gaza were the victim of ethnic cleansing,
00:06:31.040 it would be the most ham-fisted,
00:06:33.380 poorly executed ethnic cleansing in the history of the world.
00:06:36.720 And I'm so glad that it's not happening.
00:06:39.020 I'm glad that ethnic cleansing is not occurring 0.65
00:06:40.980 at the hands of Israel.
00:06:42.980 But I'll tell you what is happening.
00:06:44.600 Hamas is actually trying to ethnically cleanse Jews.
00:06:48.700 This is from the Hamas charter.
00:06:50.800 This is not a conspiracy theory.
00:06:52.900 This is not something that is anywhere other
00:06:55.440 than in the plain language of Hamas itself.
00:06:58.660 From the charter, Israel will exist 1.00
00:07:00.680 and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, 1.00
00:07:04.300 just as it obliterated others before it.
00:07:07.900 And I don't think there's a notwithstanding clause
00:07:10.040 on that charter.
00:07:10.980 So that's the Hamas position, 0.95
00:07:12.200 that we need to obliterate Israel, 1.00
00:07:14.680 not coexist peacefully,
00:07:16.400 not have a nice little two-state solution,
00:07:18.560 but obliterate it.
00:07:20.600 That's ethnic cleansing. 0.83
00:07:22.080 Hamas has called for the elimination
00:07:23.740 of the Jewish people entirely.
00:07:25.980 They don't want an Israel. 1.00
00:07:27.180 They don't want a Jewish diaspora. 1.00
00:07:28.620 But Israel is, to Canadian journalists now,
00:07:32.220 the executor of ethnic cleansing.
00:07:35.440 So I take a huge issue with that term,
00:07:38.720 especially since Jews have themselves 1.00
00:07:40.980 been on the receiving end of ethnic cleansing in the past.
00:07:44.740 And if you look at a lot of the signs
00:07:46.560 from pro-Palestine, pro-Gaza demonstrations
00:07:49.380 across Canada over the weekend,
00:07:51.720 it's not uncommon to see Israel linked to Nazism,
00:07:55.080 which is incredibly offensive,
00:07:56.800 but also in the current dynamic
00:07:58.880 between Israel and Hamas,
00:08:00.720 Hamas are the new Nazis, not Israel. 0.91
00:08:03.960 Now Fatima Syed,
00:08:05.100 who is one of the signatories of this letter,
00:08:07.440 and I should say she's with National Observer,
00:08:09.520 which is a media organization,
00:08:11.140 but it's one that does not hide the fact
00:08:13.500 that it's engaged in advocacy.
00:08:14.980 So they are on the left,
00:08:16.440 but again, they're open about what they're doing.
00:08:18.900 She had tweeted out yesterday
00:08:21.060 that a bunch of us,
00:08:22.740 and I'm assuming she means colleagues in media,
00:08:24.940 are hearing reports that journalists
00:08:26.660 who signed the open letter
00:08:28.060 asking for fair, nuanced coverage of Gaza
00:08:31.000 are being told they can't cover it
00:08:32.860 because they showed a lack of objectivity.
00:08:35.300 And then she links to another document
00:08:36.860 that's telling people how to challenge their bosses
00:08:40.680 if their bosses say,
00:08:41.740 hey, you've signed this activist letter,
00:08:43.780 you therefore can't cover this issue.
00:08:45.840 And I find it interesting
00:08:47.280 because on one hand,
00:08:48.140 I guess it means that the open letter
00:08:50.000 has had the reverse effect
00:08:51.980 because now all of the people
00:08:53.180 that do want to cover the issue that way
00:08:55.340 are being told by their bosses they can't.
00:08:57.680 So perhaps the problem has solved itself
00:09:00.220 because these journalists have self-selected
00:09:02.320 inadvertently out of covering this.
00:09:05.140 But I do think that there's an important point here
00:09:07.300 because when I took aim at this letter
00:09:09.060 on Twitter over the weekend,
00:09:10.120 I had a number of people telling me
00:09:11.940 that, oh, objectivity is a myth,
00:09:13.380 which to some extent I agree with.
00:09:15.780 Journalists will always have their bias.
00:09:17.300 The issue is, will you cover things
00:09:19.860 in a fair and responsible way
00:09:21.900 irrespective of that bias?
00:09:24.880 And the backlash that I got was quite astonishing.
00:09:28.280 People saying that, you know,
00:09:29.540 this is like not taking a position on murder.
00:09:32.060 This is like not taking a position on the Holocaust 0.87
00:09:34.080 because they genuinely speaking
00:09:36.640 do not believe that there are two sides.
00:09:39.580 And this is what Jennica Atwin, 0.58
00:09:41.680 who's a Green Party MP said,
00:09:43.600 which again, she's an MP. 0.59
00:09:45.220 She's got her own political beliefs.
00:09:46.740 That's fine.
00:09:47.480 But it was a remarkably succinct way
00:09:49.860 of putting the problem here.
00:09:52.280 I stand with Palestine.
00:09:53.780 There are no two sides to this conflict,
00:09:56.340 only human rights abuses.
00:09:58.460 And usually the statements you get from politicians
00:10:00.540 are a lot more equivocal of,
00:10:02.160 I want both sides to come.
00:10:03.640 She's very frank.
00:10:04.500 She says there are no two sides.
00:10:06.000 And that's what a lot of Canadian journalists
00:10:08.220 are saying as well.
00:10:09.900 And again, people may say,
00:10:11.220 well, Andrew, you've been pro-Israel.
00:10:12.660 You've been to Israel.
00:10:13.460 You've talked about this.
00:10:14.220 Yeah, I don't hide it though.
00:10:15.980 I don't pretend that I'm presenting a balanced view
00:10:20.020 when I speak about my perspective on this,
00:10:22.820 my analysis, my research.
00:10:24.660 I am pro-Israel.
00:10:25.540 I think the facts support Israel.
00:10:27.220 But I'm also incredibly aware
00:10:29.680 and incredibly transparent
00:10:31.680 about where I stand on this.
00:10:33.920 The issue with the journalists
00:10:35.440 who have signed these letters
00:10:36.880 is that, well, they're owning up to it now
00:10:40.160 to some extent.
00:10:40.940 But these are the people in jobs
00:10:42.520 that don't afford them 0.83
00:10:43.660 the right to inject their opinion
00:10:45.440 in, in fact, jobs that forbid them
00:10:47.340 from doing that.
00:10:48.440 These are people who claim
00:10:49.600 that they are the arbiters
00:10:50.840 of a neutral, objective truth
00:10:52.960 when in actuality,
00:10:54.440 they are political hacks
00:10:55.680 passing off a very wrong,
00:10:57.640 in my view,
00:10:58.180 but a very charged opinion
00:10:59.740 as though it is a neutral, objective truth.
00:11:02.820 And that's the problem with this.
00:11:04.900 And most of these people
00:11:06.180 have put their names to it.
00:11:07.120 This one I found funny,
00:11:08.260 line 143 on the letter,
00:11:10.440 Anonymous Anonymous of CBC Toronto.
00:11:13.980 It's a reporter there
00:11:15.380 who is either named Anonymous Anonymous.
00:11:17.600 I think it might be Turkish
00:11:18.420 if memory serves.
00:11:19.640 Anonymous Anonymous.
00:11:20.580 No, or they just don't want
00:11:21.800 to own up to it.
00:11:22.460 So you've got a CBC Toronto reporter
00:11:24.460 out there that believes strongly enough
00:11:26.580 that they want to sign this letter,
00:11:28.060 but not so strongly enough
00:11:29.180 that they want anyone to know about it.
00:11:30.640 So I always tell people
00:11:31.940 to be mindful of CBC coverage,
00:11:34.120 but especially in this particular context as well.
00:11:37.980 And it isn't just people in the media
00:11:40.180 that are taking these positions.
00:11:41.900 Also in politics,
00:11:43.120 we have at True North a roundup
00:11:44.980 of a number of politicians
00:11:46.160 that have made some fairly anti-Israel comments
00:11:49.640 from the NDP to the Greens to the Liberals,
00:11:53.240 but it's not limited to just those.
00:11:55.580 There were a few MLAs in Alberta
00:11:57.720 who decided to take aim at human rights abuses.
00:12:01.680 And in at least two of those cases,
00:12:03.560 they were completely uninterested
00:12:06.200 in the violence against Israel
00:12:08.960 at the hands of Hamas.
00:12:11.200 Mohamed Yassin, who is a UCP,
00:12:13.860 a conservative MLA in Calgary,
00:12:16.140 said it was heartbreaking
00:12:17.140 to see the escalating violence
00:12:19.060 and breach of fundamental human rights
00:12:21.160 in the Middle East,
00:12:22.280 specifically in Gaza and the West Bank.
00:12:25.340 The loss of life of innocent men,
00:12:27.120 women, and children 0.97
00:12:27.740 is never acceptable, even in war.
00:12:29.820 I hope as more people are engaged
00:12:31.340 on this issue,
00:12:32.040 that the violence will turn to dialogue
00:12:34.360 and eventually a peaceful resolution.
00:12:36.840 He has a right to believe what he wants,
00:12:38.880 but it's a little bit of an odd position
00:12:40.740 in the conservative party
00:12:42.900 and the conservative movement in Canada.
00:12:45.120 And then there is Mickey Amory,
00:12:47.920 who writes that he was disturbed
00:12:49.980 by the events around Al-Aqsa Mosque.
00:12:52.540 This is Israel in the midst of 0.98
00:12:54.200 a rather violent riot,
00:12:55.420 a demonstration,
00:12:56.480 raiding a mosque during Ramadan,
00:12:58.360 which was when the protests were taking place.
00:13:00.980 He says the escalation and use of violence
00:13:02.900 against innocent and unarmed
00:13:04.200 Palestinian worshippers and civilians
00:13:05.940 at Islam's third holiest site
00:13:07.960 is indefensible.
00:13:09.460 He says the government of Alberta
00:13:11.020 does not have a foreign affairs policy,
00:13:13.900 but as a humanitarian,
00:13:15.640 a father, a husband,
00:13:17.260 and on behalf of those,
00:13:18.740 I represent as MLA for Calgary Cross.
00:13:21.360 I fully condemn this violence.
00:13:23.760 He says it's our duty to speak out
00:13:25.480 when human rights violations occur.
00:13:27.680 He talks about injustices,
00:13:29.260 social injustices,
00:13:30.480 but then he calls on the federal government
00:13:33.020 to intervene.
00:13:34.520 So he is actually,
00:13:35.700 as an Alberta MLA,
00:13:36.820 calling for federal government intervention
00:13:38.740 against Israel 0.70
00:13:40.640 because he says that Israel
00:13:41.780 is committing rampant human rights abuses.
00:13:43.980 He wants the federal government
00:13:45.220 to get involved.
00:13:46.300 And this is a fairly odd comment
00:13:48.020 from an Alberta MLA
00:13:50.200 to call for federal intervention
00:13:52.720 in a conflict
00:13:53.360 when I don't even think
00:13:54.360 we're hearing that from federal MPs
00:13:56.920 who themselves
00:13:57.640 have been very critical of Israel.
00:13:59.620 Now, there was another MLA
00:14:01.400 who's actually a minister
00:14:02.700 who had posted
00:14:03.620 a rather vague comment
00:14:05.460 about human rights
00:14:06.960 being human rights
00:14:07.900 and we need to protect them.
00:14:09.040 And I tried to get
00:14:09.980 some clarification from her
00:14:11.440 on what it was
00:14:12.800 that she was actually saying.
00:14:14.340 This was Minister Rajan Sani
00:14:16.160 and it did not get a response.
00:14:18.240 Her press secretary
00:14:19.200 just said to read
00:14:20.300 her social media post,
00:14:21.440 which was why I was so confused
00:14:23.280 in the first place.
00:14:25.180 Jason Kenney,
00:14:26.020 Alberta Premier Jason Kenney,
00:14:27.260 did a press conference
00:14:28.720 and I asked about this.
00:14:30.240 His MLA's were,
00:14:31.220 I mean, in one case,
00:14:32.000 calling on the federal government
00:14:33.640 to intervene
00:14:34.860 in the Israel-Hamas conflict.
00:14:37.060 I asked Jason Kenney
00:14:38.000 what his position was,
00:14:39.680 if this actually spoke
00:14:40.760 for the UCP
00:14:41.860 or for Premier Kenney.
00:14:43.040 No, and I believe
00:14:45.280 it's only one MLA
00:14:46.040 who has made that comment.
00:14:48.720 Andrew, as you know,
00:14:50.360 provinces do not have
00:14:51.200 foreign policies.
00:14:52.060 Canada has only
00:14:52.660 one foreign policy.
00:14:54.340 My views about that conflict
00:14:56.560 are very well known
00:14:57.720 from my two decades
00:14:59.520 in the federal parliament
00:15:00.420 and my 10 years
00:15:01.580 in the federal cabinet.
00:15:03.240 But I make a very deliberate point
00:15:05.540 of not freelancing
00:15:07.520 into a foreign policy.
00:15:09.360 We ask,
00:15:10.540 one of the longstanding demands
00:15:12.300 of Alberta
00:15:12.800 is that the federal government
00:15:14.080 stay out of our backyard
00:15:15.120 in areas of our exclusive
00:15:16.320 constitutional jurisdiction.
00:15:18.280 And I have to reciprocate
00:15:19.720 when it comes to their areas
00:15:21.180 of exclusive jurisdiction
00:15:22.720 such as foreign policy.
00:15:24.840 I will say this, though.
00:15:26.300 I am concerned
00:15:27.320 to have seen
00:15:28.180 over the weekend
00:15:29.700 a number of disturbing reports
00:15:32.260 about anti-Semitic threats
00:15:35.440 and behavior.
00:15:37.560 There's a report
00:15:38.600 out of Edmonton
00:15:39.320 about an individual
00:15:40.460 who claims
00:15:41.080 that people came to his house
00:15:43.000 asking if Jews lived here.
00:15:45.440 And we saw these
00:15:47.100 apparently violent incidents
00:15:48.840 in Toronto.
00:15:51.180 So I find that abhorrent
00:15:53.840 and I condemn
00:15:57.100 any expression of anti-Semitism
00:15:59.600 in any part of this country, period.
00:16:02.040 So Jason Kenney saying
00:16:03.360 Alberta does not have
00:16:04.260 a foreign policy,
00:16:05.140 not for him,
00:16:06.000 not for Alberta legislators
00:16:07.280 to start dictating
00:16:08.980 how the federal government
00:16:10.020 should engage with the world.
00:16:11.300 But he was very clear
00:16:12.520 to say that he has
00:16:13.760 a record on this
00:16:14.580 that's very clear
00:16:15.240 from when he was
00:16:15.940 in federal politics
00:16:17.360 and he's always been
00:16:18.200 a supporter of Israel.
00:16:19.740 And also very clear
00:16:21.240 to condemn anti-Semitism,
00:16:23.940 which is very important.
00:16:25.300 We're seeing in large,
00:16:26.980 large numbers
00:16:27.640 across the country right now.
00:16:29.440 And just as an aside,
00:16:30.500 that one case
00:16:31.460 Jason Kenney mentioned
00:16:32.520 of a video
00:16:33.560 that was from
00:16:34.060 a longtime member
00:16:34.960 of Edmonton's
00:16:36.300 Jewish community
00:16:37.080 and he spoke
00:16:38.080 about just this
00:16:39.480 really bizarre experience
00:16:41.280 he had.
00:16:41.960 He was at his parents' house,
00:16:43.420 I believe,
00:16:43.840 and there was a car
00:16:44.600 of pro-Palestine demonstrators
00:16:46.680 and they just asked,
00:16:47.780 it sounds like
00:16:48.240 rather nonchalantly,
00:16:49.620 if any Jews lived
00:16:51.000 in the area,
00:16:51.620 which is just
00:16:52.580 absolutely chilling.
00:16:54.080 And I've talked
00:16:54.780 to a number of people
00:16:55.580 who genuinely feel
00:16:56.740 unsafe as Jews in Canada. 0.99
00:16:59.020 It is the last
00:16:59.880 acceptable bigotry.
00:17:02.000 A friend of mine,
00:17:02.580 Laura Rosen-Cohen
00:17:03.760 has said quite famously now
00:17:05.140 that everyone meets
00:17:06.160 at Jew Hate Junction.
00:17:07.280 You've got people
00:17:07.960 in different political groups,
00:17:09.760 different religious groups,
00:17:10.900 different ethnicities
00:17:12.220 that all seem to,
00:17:13.760 in their extremes,
00:17:15.240 converge on hatred of Jews.
00:17:17.820 And it is
00:17:18.680 the last acceptable bigotry.
00:17:20.380 Whenever anyone talks
00:17:21.240 about hate crimes,
00:17:22.400 hate crimes against Jews
00:17:23.620 are always
00:17:24.520 the most significant group
00:17:26.580 and yet the one
00:17:28.000 that everyone talks
00:17:28.880 about the least.
00:17:29.500 It's all about Islamophobia now
00:17:31.040 and all of that stuff.
00:17:31.960 And I reached out
00:17:33.080 to the offices
00:17:33.800 of MLA's Yassine and Amory
00:17:36.000 and I said very clearly,
00:17:37.800 which human rights abuses
00:17:38.900 are you talking about
00:17:40.100 and specifically,
00:17:41.880 will you also condemn Hamas
00:17:44.080 or do you condemn Hamas?
00:17:46.480 And MLA Yassine's aide
00:17:48.800 responded and said,
00:17:49.880 can I get a phone number for you?
00:17:51.120 Which I responded to
00:17:52.340 immediately with my number.
00:17:53.820 Never heard back.
00:17:55.100 And MLA Amory's office
00:17:56.740 did not respond at all.
00:17:58.660 So two MLAs
00:18:00.400 who were very critical
00:18:01.780 of Israel,
00:18:02.980 one more directly
00:18:04.000 and explicitly
00:18:04.620 than the other nonetheless.
00:18:06.400 And neither,
00:18:07.660 neither has responded
00:18:09.060 to a very clear question,
00:18:10.700 will you condemn Hamas?
00:18:13.480 That's it.
00:18:13.940 Will you condemn Hamas?
00:18:14.740 Yes or no?
00:18:15.780 If you can look
00:18:16.860 at this conflict
00:18:17.560 and not find it
00:18:18.780 in yourself
00:18:19.440 to condemn Hamas,
00:18:20.820 that is a disgusting
00:18:22.500 position that you hold.
00:18:24.660 As I said
00:18:25.240 on the show last week,
00:18:26.120 whatever you think
00:18:26.820 about Israel,
00:18:27.500 whatever you think
00:18:28.080 about the plight
00:18:28.740 of the Palestinian people,
00:18:30.460 whatever you think
00:18:31.300 about where the blame is
00:18:33.120 in a lot of the conflict,
00:18:34.860 you cannot hold Hamas 1.00
00:18:36.660 up as anything other
00:18:37.720 than a group of terrorist thugs.
00:18:39.080 Hamas is responsible 1.00
00:18:40.460 for more Palestinian deaths
00:18:42.060 than any other group imaginable
00:18:43.980 and that includes Israel.
00:18:45.900 Hamas kills more people 0.98
00:18:47.780 and puts them in harm's way
00:18:49.080 than Israel ever could. 0.93
00:18:51.000 And the reality of this
00:18:52.320 is that anyone
00:18:53.340 who refuses to condemn Hamas 0.81
00:18:55.480 is doing it
00:18:57.120 because either
00:18:57.640 A, they believe
00:18:58.400 with what Hamas
00:18:59.080 is trying to accomplish,
00:19:00.220 which is just disgusting
00:19:01.100 in its own right,
00:19:02.120 I remind you of the charter
00:19:03.440 of obliterating Israel, 0.92
00:19:05.000 or it's because
00:19:06.320 they don't want
00:19:07.040 to take away
00:19:07.740 from the complete contempt
00:19:09.640 or hatred
00:19:10.400 they hold for Israel.
00:19:14.280 That's the only justification
00:19:16.280 for not condemning Hamas.
00:19:18.380 Either you agree with them
00:19:19.640 or you just hate Israel
00:19:21.260 that much,
00:19:22.120 you don't want to leave
00:19:23.140 any wiggle room
00:19:23.840 for anyone to think
00:19:24.560 that you don't hate Israel.
00:19:27.140 And again,
00:19:27.720 condemnation of Hamas
00:19:28.800 does not mean
00:19:29.400 you have to agree
00:19:30.320 with everything Israel does. 0.58
00:19:31.580 It doesn't mean
00:19:32.100 you can't have a conversation
00:19:33.780 or a debate
00:19:35.060 about what's happening
00:19:35.980 in Sheikh Jarrah,
00:19:37.080 about what happened
00:19:37.920 in Al-Aqsa Mosque,
00:19:39.080 about how Israel
00:19:40.320 navigates the issues
00:19:41.360 with the territories
00:19:42.180 that are currently governed
00:19:43.520 by Palestinian authority
00:19:45.260 or by Hamas.
00:19:46.140 You can talk about
00:19:46.920 all of these things,
00:19:48.000 but if you can't accept
00:19:49.680 as fact
00:19:50.560 that Hamas 0.99
00:19:51.780 is a terrorist group
00:19:52.820 which most free countries
00:19:54.200 in the world,
00:19:55.200 including Canada,
00:19:56.120 accept,
00:19:57.480 then you are not prepared
00:19:58.580 to have an honest conversation
00:19:59.940 about it.
00:20:00.340 You're not prepared
00:20:00.900 to have that nuanced dialogue
00:20:02.720 that those Canadian journalists
00:20:04.220 were calling for.
00:20:05.820 We've got to take a break.
00:20:07.000 When we come back,
00:20:07.700 more of The Andrew Lawton Show
00:20:09.040 here on True North.
00:20:11.660 You're tuned in
00:20:12.780 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:20:16.940 We are back here
00:20:18.200 on The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:20:19.520 All right,
00:20:19.780 we did some heavy stuff,
00:20:20.780 so this story
00:20:21.400 is kind of fun
00:20:22.280 and don't read
00:20:23.080 too much into this.
00:20:24.000 Don't make this out
00:20:24.760 to be more
00:20:25.380 than it actually is.
00:20:27.560 But Justin Trudeau
00:20:28.860 is gearing up
00:20:29.660 for an election campaign.
00:20:31.160 He's having a lot
00:20:31.820 of these weird
00:20:32.980 sort of Zoom meetings
00:20:35.020 and this event
00:20:35.900 and that event
00:20:36.520 all virtually.
00:20:37.500 He's meeting with
00:20:38.460 this group
00:20:38.980 and that group
00:20:39.600 and every now and then
00:20:40.920 he has an official photographer
00:20:42.060 that's going to
00:20:42.660 snap a photo of him
00:20:43.700 that's going to be used
00:20:44.520 to promote this,
00:20:45.780 going to be used
00:20:46.300 for Liberal Party fundraising,
00:20:48.060 for example.
00:20:48.600 And this one
00:20:49.880 is a bit of a weird one.
00:20:51.480 It was first flagged
00:20:52.520 by Brian Passafume
00:20:54.720 with the Toronto Sun
00:20:56.280 and it's Justin Trudeau
00:20:58.240 looking happy there
00:20:59.140 on a Zoom call
00:21:00.080 and he is typing away
00:21:01.860 on his MacBook Pro
00:21:04.000 except,
00:21:05.160 well,
00:21:05.300 hang on,
00:21:05.820 that's,
00:21:06.200 that's,
00:21:06.820 that's not a MacBook Pro
00:21:09.880 at all.
00:21:10.240 That's a,
00:21:11.280 well,
00:21:11.620 if you got to really,
00:21:12.560 really zoom in there,
00:21:13.280 it is an HP computer
00:21:15.640 with an Apple sticker
00:21:17.940 over the HP logo
00:21:19.960 and I,
00:21:21.100 I don't know why
00:21:21.980 you would want to do this
00:21:23.460 and by the way,
00:21:24.080 this is,
00:21:24.420 I'm,
00:21:24.640 I'm on a Mac right now
00:21:25.840 but there's no,
00:21:27.040 like,
00:21:27.240 you can see that there's no,
00:21:28.900 you can see my computer
00:21:29.700 is a bit dirty
00:21:30.200 but that is an honest
00:21:32.060 bona fide Apple.
00:21:33.360 There's no HP under there.
00:21:34.640 No,
00:21:34.920 not everyone's a Mac lover.
00:21:36.200 That's fine
00:21:36.680 but why would you pretend
00:21:38.300 to be using a Mac
00:21:39.460 if you are actually
00:21:41.480 using an HP computer?
00:21:43.580 It's not even like Mac
00:21:44.520 is a Canadian computer company
00:21:45.960 and you had to look like
00:21:47.000 you were supporting local.
00:21:48.760 No,
00:21:49.080 it's,
00:21:49.280 it's,
00:21:49.540 you know,
00:21:49.700 one American tech company
00:21:51.180 versus another
00:21:51.960 American tech company
00:21:53.680 and,
00:21:54.860 and now Brian Lilly
00:21:55.860 with the Toronto Sun,
00:21:56.820 he goes with,
00:21:57.740 he goes into like the archives
00:21:59.040 and he says,
00:22:00.340 you know,
00:22:00.580 he's a fake feminist, 1.00
00:22:01.780 he's a fake anti-racist,
00:22:03.220 he's a fake this.
00:22:04.080 Now is he a fake Mac user?
00:22:05.640 I just think
00:22:06.860 it's a bizarre thing to,
00:22:08.780 I mean,
00:22:09.020 you don't lie about things
00:22:10.280 that don't matter.
00:22:11.620 Ideally,
00:22:12.100 politicians wouldn't lie at all
00:22:13.460 but if you are going to,
00:22:14.800 you want to make it about something
00:22:16.200 that's really going to count,
00:22:17.540 you know,
00:22:17.780 like,
00:22:18.240 for example,
00:22:19.020 she experienced it differently
00:22:20.400 or the reports in the Globe and Mail
00:22:22.200 are false.
00:22:23.080 You want to lie
00:22:23.820 when it's going to dig you
00:22:24.600 out of a hole there,
00:22:25.440 Justin Trudeau.
00:22:26.560 He's just pretending
00:22:27.700 to be using a Mac
00:22:28.960 for no discernible reason
00:22:30.520 and some people are saying,
00:22:32.820 you know,
00:22:33.000 it's just proof
00:22:33.460 that everything
00:22:34.380 is a facade.
00:22:35.880 You know,
00:22:36.080 the Mac sticker,
00:22:37.160 the blackface makeup,
00:22:38.200 whatever the case may be,
00:22:39.060 everything is just skin deep
00:22:40.240 with Justin Trudeau.
00:22:41.940 I'm not going to go
00:22:42.880 to Mac gate.
00:22:44.420 I'm not going to make this
00:22:45.420 a gate.
00:22:46.260 I'm not going to make it
00:22:46.860 a huge scandal
00:22:47.640 but it is just odd
00:22:49.700 and I think you can have
00:22:50.560 a chuckle about it
00:22:51.440 even with all of the frustrations
00:22:53.140 that exist
00:22:53.780 throughout politics
00:22:54.760 right now.
00:22:56.100 Now,
00:22:56.360 one comms director
00:22:57.180 for the Liberals,
00:22:58.000 Braden Cayley,
00:22:58.860 had kind of accused this
00:23:00.100 of being hard-hitting sleuthing,
00:23:01.860 he said in a mocking tone.
00:23:03.320 He said it was
00:23:03.760 a team laptop
00:23:04.900 borrowed for a moment
00:23:05.980 in the Liberal Party
00:23:06.780 of Canada volunteer hub
00:23:08.020 for a drop in
00:23:09.080 to thank volunteers virtually.
00:23:10.880 He said some
00:23:11.440 especially keen Apple fans
00:23:12.880 just brought some real change
00:23:14.360 to the look
00:23:15.240 of a team's computer.
00:23:16.560 So he couldn't even
00:23:17.300 do the spin
00:23:18.100 without dropping in
00:23:18.960 the Liberal
00:23:19.360 real change slogan.
00:23:21.000 But hey,
00:23:21.420 if real change
00:23:22.560 constitutes slapping
00:23:23.600 a sticker on one thing
00:23:24.560 and pretending it's another,
00:23:25.660 that actually is
00:23:26.500 a remarkably good way
00:23:27.780 of describing
00:23:28.460 Justin Trudeau's
00:23:29.400 approach to real change.
00:23:30.840 Just slap a fancy sticker
00:23:32.120 on something
00:23:32.780 but don't actually
00:23:34.080 change anything at all.
00:23:36.000 Oh my goodness.
00:23:37.160 All right,
00:23:37.600 well let's turn to
00:23:38.540 something far more
00:23:39.400 important now.
00:23:40.440 Over the weekend,
00:23:41.260 I know this is a fairly
00:23:42.200 Alberta-focused show
00:23:43.180 but I hope you'll
00:23:43.740 bear with me here.
00:23:44.780 Over the weekend,
00:23:45.680 a very long caucus meeting
00:23:47.460 resulted in the expulsion
00:23:48.760 of two MLAs
00:23:50.280 from Jason Kenney's
00:23:52.120 UCP caucus.
00:23:54.480 Those MLAs,
00:23:55.720 Todd Lowen
00:23:56.400 and Drew Barnes,
00:23:57.260 seem to be punished
00:23:58.500 for challenging
00:23:59.780 their leader,
00:24:01.020 if you will.
00:24:02.080 Todd Lowen
00:24:02.700 is the MLA
00:24:03.420 who last week
00:24:04.400 published that letter
00:24:05.260 in which he announced
00:24:06.000 he was stepping down
00:24:07.260 from his role
00:24:08.480 as UCP caucus chair
00:24:09.940 and calling on
00:24:10.820 Jason Kenney
00:24:11.400 to resign.
00:24:12.480 This was really
00:24:13.660 trying to call attention
00:24:15.220 to what he says
00:24:16.060 is a leadership deficit
00:24:17.740 in the way Jason Kenney
00:24:18.760 has been handling
00:24:19.300 the pandemic.
00:24:20.380 We know there's been
00:24:21.300 a lot of criticism
00:24:22.140 for Kenney
00:24:22.740 from within his own caucus
00:24:24.180 on lockdowns
00:24:25.380 and restrictions
00:24:26.180 and Todd Lowen
00:24:27.660 had said,
00:24:28.060 listen,
00:24:28.300 I cannot serve
00:24:29.000 in this position.
00:24:30.000 So this was something
00:24:31.460 that triggered
00:24:32.240 this marathon caucus
00:24:34.280 meeting on the weekend.
00:24:35.640 Again,
00:24:35.860 seven hours long
00:24:36.700 by all accounts
00:24:37.440 and at the end of it,
00:24:38.800 Drew Barnes,
00:24:39.460 who we've had on the show
00:24:40.340 a number of times,
00:24:41.440 was also caught up in it.
00:24:43.040 Now,
00:24:43.180 Drew Barnes has been
00:24:44.100 in the past
00:24:45.040 critical of certain
00:24:46.100 government directives
00:24:47.280 but he's also been
00:24:48.200 in other ways
00:24:48.840 a foot soldier
00:24:49.760 of the UCP
00:24:51.060 as Todd Lowen has
00:24:52.620 and more importantly
00:24:53.740 they're trying to represent
00:24:54.680 their constituents
00:24:55.440 and their base
00:24:56.780 but that was not good enough.
00:24:58.560 The UCP has ejected them
00:25:00.020 from caucus
00:25:00.520 and said that they were
00:25:01.480 dividing the caucus,
00:25:02.920 dividing the party.
00:25:04.520 I want to dig into this
00:25:05.440 a little bit further.
00:25:07.040 Drew Barnes,
00:25:07.700 Cyprus Medicine Hat MLA
00:25:09.140 joins me on the line now.
00:25:10.980 Newly independent
00:25:11.800 Cyprus Medicine Hat MLA.
00:25:14.000 Drew,
00:25:14.260 it's good to talk to you.
00:25:15.000 Thanks for coming on today.
00:25:16.680 Nice to talk to you again,
00:25:17.620 Andrew.
00:25:17.880 Thank you.
00:25:18.700 Now,
00:25:18.940 Drew,
00:25:19.140 as I mentioned,
00:25:19.620 you are a newly
00:25:21.120 independent MLA
00:25:22.180 but I should stress
00:25:22.960 this is not by choice,
00:25:24.420 is it?
00:25:25.420 Yeah,
00:25:25.860 it was an interesting
00:25:27.480 situation for sure.
00:25:29.940 The premier
00:25:30.560 for about a year
00:25:32.880 had said
00:25:33.320 that he welcomed
00:25:34.160 public debate,
00:25:35.300 he welcomed
00:25:35.880 public discussion.
00:25:37.480 Of course,
00:25:38.140 Andrew,
00:25:38.960 I'm not in cabinet
00:25:40.120 so my role
00:25:40.960 is to hold
00:25:41.520 the government
00:25:41.940 to account
00:25:42.540 and of course
00:25:43.320 Cyprus Medicine Hat
00:25:44.360 constituents
00:25:45.060 believe that Alberta
00:25:46.540 should be the free
00:25:47.480 and most prosperous
00:25:48.520 place in America.
00:25:49.620 North America
00:25:50.240 and that was my job
00:25:51.720 and my goal
00:25:52.300 to do what I could
00:25:54.580 to make that happen
00:25:55.460 and all of a sudden
00:25:58.380 Thursday
00:25:59.120 after my colleague
00:26:00.600 Todd Lowen
00:26:01.460 had published the letter
00:26:02.640 it was determined
00:26:03.820 that I should be
00:26:06.060 ejected from caucus
00:26:07.240 as well
00:26:07.780 but you know,
00:26:08.660 Andrew,
00:26:09.000 that's also an important part.
00:26:11.580 Todd Lowen,
00:26:12.820 a very respectful,
00:26:14.460 hardworking
00:26:15.120 constituent,
00:26:16.340 conservative,
00:26:18.120 heard from his constituents
00:26:19.200 to such a degree
00:26:20.280 that Premier Kenney
00:26:21.500 and the UCP government
00:26:22.600 had not met expectations
00:26:24.140 that he felt so strongly
00:26:26.220 he had to publicly ask
00:26:28.420 for the Premier's resignation
00:26:29.640 and then that kicked off
00:26:31.440 a process that
00:26:32.440 I now find myself
00:26:34.300 as an independent.
00:26:35.260 So I have to ask you
00:26:37.080 on that note,
00:26:38.100 Drew,
00:26:38.360 why you?
00:26:39.160 Why at this point?
00:26:40.140 Because I understand,
00:26:41.360 not that I agree with it,
00:26:42.400 but I understand the timing
00:26:43.520 of Todd's expulsion
00:26:44.680 from caucus
00:26:45.240 given that he had written
00:26:46.120 that letter.
00:26:47.060 It was kind of surprising
00:26:48.380 when at the end
00:26:48.900 of this meeting
00:26:49.540 the news comes out
00:26:50.720 that you were swept up
00:26:51.980 in this as well.
00:26:52.740 What was the rationale
00:26:53.600 for kicking you out
00:26:55.140 at that moment?
00:26:55.740 You know,
00:26:57.580 all I can surmise
00:26:59.200 is that he,
00:27:00.100 you know,
00:27:00.260 Premier Kenney
00:27:00.860 really doesn't believe
00:27:02.280 in dissent and debate.
00:27:05.540 And again,
00:27:06.020 you know,
00:27:06.360 when I'm not a member
00:27:08.120 of cabinet,
00:27:08.840 when I'm not a minister,
00:27:09.900 it's my obligation
00:27:10.860 and I'm so honoured
00:27:11.940 to represent
00:27:12.540 Cyprus Medicine Hat
00:27:13.480 now in my third term.
00:27:14.860 It's my obligation
00:27:15.840 to present ideas
00:27:17.560 to the government,
00:27:18.860 to, you know,
00:27:20.340 criticise when they're wrong,
00:27:22.280 to present ideas
00:27:23.720 and to hold them to account.
00:27:25.540 And, you know,
00:27:26.460 my summation at this point
00:27:28.100 is that wasn't the case.
00:27:30.020 You know,
00:27:30.220 I think back
00:27:31.100 seven or eight months
00:27:32.820 when I supported
00:27:33.840 the government
00:27:34.360 because we had
00:27:34.880 a regional approach
00:27:35.780 to the COVID lockdowns.
00:27:37.620 And when the government
00:27:38.900 abandoned a regional approach,
00:27:40.860 I changed my level of support
00:27:43.100 for what they were doing.
00:27:44.540 And I don't know,
00:27:46.320 in the rear view mirror,
00:27:48.100 I guess it was only allowed
00:27:50.040 if I was mostly on side.
00:27:52.500 Certainly,
00:27:52.980 the lockdowns
00:27:54.460 and restrictions
00:27:55.040 seem to galvanise
00:27:56.260 a lot of people.
00:27:57.100 And we're seeing this
00:27:57.680 across the country,
00:27:58.460 not just in Alberta,
00:27:59.840 as far as response
00:28:01.100 to government's directions
00:28:02.520 and policies on this.
00:28:03.880 But you had had
00:28:04.800 some misgivings
00:28:05.760 about the way
00:28:06.600 that the government
00:28:07.160 was handling
00:28:07.640 some other files,
00:28:08.580 I know.
00:28:08.860 You and I spoke previously
00:28:09.980 about Western alienation,
00:28:12.120 about the upcoming referendum.
00:28:13.720 And it sounds like
00:28:14.860 this lockdown,
00:28:16.860 the resistance
00:28:17.480 to the lockdowns
00:28:18.320 was not an isolated frustration,
00:28:20.680 if I can use the word,
00:28:21.900 that you had.
00:28:23.180 Yeah.
00:28:24.080 I hear it time and time again
00:28:25.660 from Albertans
00:28:26.420 and Cypress Medicine Hatters
00:28:27.860 that they feel strongly
00:28:29.360 that Premier Kenney
00:28:30.600 has not met expectations.
00:28:33.140 Two years ago,
00:28:34.560 the election
00:28:35.440 of the Premier
00:28:36.760 and the UCP
00:28:37.660 was to get a fairer deal
00:28:39.720 with Ottawa
00:28:40.240 and our Canadian partners.
00:28:42.040 I mean,
00:28:42.780 you know,
00:28:43.380 we send about
00:28:43.960 $25 billion more
00:28:45.200 a year into
00:28:45.880 the Canadian Confederation
00:28:47.080 than we receive.
00:28:47.900 and we've had
00:28:49.160 some tough times
00:28:49.980 and, you know,
00:28:51.160 it's time
00:28:51.780 to change that.
00:28:54.600 And Albertans
00:28:55.420 tell me
00:28:56.040 all the time
00:28:56.840 that they want
00:28:57.380 to push the envelope
00:28:58.380 to see what can be achieved.
00:29:00.640 There's a lot
00:29:01.300 of disenchantment.
00:29:02.040 They feel that
00:29:02.600 Premier Kenney
00:29:04.100 has abandoned that.
00:29:05.820 Secondly,
00:29:06.220 the fiscal situation,
00:29:07.460 Andrew.
00:29:08.100 Right now,
00:29:08.680 Alberta has
00:29:09.320 the highest
00:29:09.960 per capita deficit,
00:29:11.320 the highest
00:29:12.100 per capita deficit
00:29:13.260 of all
00:29:14.340 Canadian provinces.
00:29:17.180 And, of course,
00:29:17.700 our desire
00:29:18.500 for freedom,
00:29:19.500 for choice,
00:29:20.100 for fiscal responsibility
00:29:21.200 is very, very high here.
00:29:23.320 And, Andrew,
00:29:23.720 maybe the third thing
00:29:24.760 is a poll came out
00:29:26.320 a short time ago
00:29:27.940 showing that
00:29:29.140 Premier Kenney
00:29:30.040 in Alberta,
00:29:31.760 in Alberta,
00:29:32.560 Premier Kenney,
00:29:33.580 his popularity
00:29:34.220 has slipped so much,
00:29:35.720 he's polling
00:29:36.120 at the same level
00:29:37.140 as Justin Trudeau.
00:29:39.180 And so,
00:29:39.920 when you're polling
00:29:40.800 at the same level
00:29:41.560 with somebody
00:29:42.100 whose values
00:29:42.760 don't match Albertans,
00:29:44.420 you know,
00:29:44.740 that's an indicator
00:29:46.280 of the frustration
00:29:48.140 and the desire
00:29:49.160 for change
00:29:49.600 that Albertans are having.
00:29:50.700 I know you said
00:29:51.580 that you're not in cabinet,
00:29:52.740 so you thought
00:29:53.260 that your role
00:29:53.980 as an MLA
00:29:54.620 was to speak out
00:29:56.260 against things
00:29:56.960 that you didn't like
00:29:57.680 and hold the government
00:29:58.680 to account.
00:29:59.300 But there is,
00:30:00.060 I think,
00:30:00.340 a question
00:30:00.860 that a lot of people
00:30:01.640 would ask here,
00:30:02.300 Drew,
00:30:02.500 which is,
00:30:02.940 why did you,
00:30:03.800 if you had these misgivings
00:30:05.000 about the leadership
00:30:05.700 of your party,
00:30:06.820 why did you not resign?
00:30:08.300 Why did you stick around
00:30:09.380 in the UCP
00:30:10.080 when you were seeing
00:30:10.800 these concerns
00:30:11.860 that you've outlined?
00:30:13.480 Yeah,
00:30:13.900 and a fair question
00:30:15.040 and thank you for that.
00:30:16.540 You know,
00:30:16.900 we're two years
00:30:17.720 into this term,
00:30:18.560 we're two years
00:30:19.080 before the next election
00:30:20.240 and it was always
00:30:21.540 that trade-off.
00:30:22.520 You try to change it
00:30:23.660 from within,
00:30:24.420 you keep speaking up
00:30:25.540 from within,
00:30:26.300 you keep trying
00:30:26.880 to put things
00:30:27.440 on the caucus agenda
00:30:28.480 that never appear
00:30:29.360 on the caucus agenda.
00:30:31.040 At what point
00:30:31.980 do you say,
00:30:33.100 you know,
00:30:33.400 I'm better to be
00:30:34.340 outside this party
00:30:36.320 than inside
00:30:37.120 to affect the kind
00:30:38.220 of change
00:30:38.620 that my constituents
00:30:39.340 are looking for?
00:30:41.060 You know,
00:30:41.380 freedom and prosperity
00:30:42.260 is what I hear daily
00:30:43.700 from families
00:30:44.400 and communities
00:30:45.060 in Alberta
00:30:45.640 and Cyprus Medicine Hat.
00:30:47.840 Again,
00:30:48.340 the feeling is strong
00:30:49.300 that Premier Kenny
00:30:50.380 and the UCP
00:30:51.060 is off track.
00:30:52.020 And so,
00:30:53.600 you know,
00:30:54.200 Andrew,
00:30:55.460 one of the things
00:30:56.020 about now
00:30:56.540 that's kind of ironic
00:30:58.140 is,
00:30:59.220 you know,
00:30:59.520 six,
00:30:59.820 eight months ago
00:31:00.300 when I'd be talking
00:31:00.820 to my constituents
00:31:01.460 and they'd say,
00:31:02.180 yeah,
00:31:02.320 we're not happy
00:31:03.020 with the way
00:31:03.400 things are going
00:31:04.000 but stick there,
00:31:05.560 keep trying to change,
00:31:06.940 you know,
00:31:07.180 see what can happen.
00:31:08.660 I would estimate
00:31:09.560 maybe 70%
00:31:11.260 used to say that.
00:31:12.740 In the last month,
00:31:14.120 fewer and fewer.
00:31:16.220 So,
00:31:16.740 you know,
00:31:17.100 and I'm excited
00:31:17.900 about this opportunity.
00:31:19.040 Now I have the chance
00:31:19.920 to be an independent,
00:31:21.640 an independent conservative.
00:31:23.260 I think there's
00:31:23.880 tens of thousands
00:31:24.700 of Albertans
00:31:25.460 whose voices
00:31:26.280 aren't being heard.
00:31:27.520 This gives me
00:31:28.180 the opportunity
00:31:29.000 to listen to them,
00:31:30.620 to learn from them
00:31:31.500 and to act.
00:31:32.860 And,
00:31:33.120 you know,
00:31:33.640 I'm grateful
00:31:34.280 that I have the chance
00:31:35.140 to be the voice
00:31:36.340 of many Albertans
00:31:37.200 who feel their thoughts
00:31:38.480 and ideas
00:31:39.020 weren't making it
00:31:39.900 to the floor
00:31:40.300 of the legislature.
00:31:41.680 When you look at
00:31:43.000 what happened
00:31:43.960 in your time
00:31:44.840 in the UCP
00:31:45.680 culminating in this
00:31:46.740 expulsion from caucus,
00:31:47.940 had you been
00:31:48.620 put on notice?
00:31:49.760 Had you been warned
00:31:50.700 or was this
00:31:51.260 completely out of left field?
00:31:53.720 Completely out of left field.
00:31:56.000 It was,
00:31:56.680 there was a caucus meeting
00:31:57.980 for Thursday.
00:31:59.620 It was cancelled
00:32:00.560 and that would have been
00:32:01.100 the second one
00:32:01.620 in a row cancelled.
00:32:02.980 I woke up the next morning
00:32:04.560 and saw Todd Lowen's letter
00:32:07.300 calling for the Premier's resignation
00:32:09.660 and I thought,
00:32:11.080 okay,
00:32:11.440 this will lead to something.
00:32:13.000 So,
00:32:13.380 a new caucus meeting
00:32:14.620 was called for 12.30.
00:32:17.080 There was a little trouble
00:32:18.220 getting it going
00:32:18.980 and about five to one
00:32:21.060 when it started,
00:32:22.120 the second or third thing
00:32:23.640 was there's going
00:32:24.920 to be a vote
00:32:25.420 on ejecting Todd
00:32:27.360 and Drew Barnes.
00:32:28.700 So,
00:32:29.360 I ended up spending
00:32:30.560 five or six hours
00:32:31.480 on the phone,
00:32:32.360 you know,
00:32:34.160 saying my side
00:32:35.100 of the story,
00:32:36.020 what I was hearing
00:32:36.660 from my constituents,
00:32:37.980 the Premier's plummeting
00:32:39.180 popularity
00:32:40.120 and how that was a factor,
00:32:41.880 how we needed
00:32:42.580 to pivot
00:32:43.060 as a group
00:32:44.260 and then we ended up
00:32:46.140 with votes
00:32:47.820 cast
00:32:48.280 and at about
00:32:49.540 7.35
00:32:50.240 as expected,
00:32:52.940 you know,
00:32:53.660 as soon as
00:32:54.400 it was announced
00:32:55.920 that they were going
00:32:56.460 to vote on my ejection,
00:32:57.500 I believed I was done
00:32:58.560 but as expected
00:32:59.640 at 7.35
00:33:00.300 I was done
00:33:01.120 and it's time
00:33:02.000 to talk to my constituents,
00:33:04.060 talk to my family
00:33:04.900 and it's time
00:33:05.660 to reorganize
00:33:06.420 so I can do
00:33:06.840 the best job
00:33:07.480 for Albertans
00:33:08.180 that believe in
00:33:08.960 freedom,
00:33:10.100 prosperity
00:33:10.520 and fiscal
00:33:11.500 conservative values.
00:33:12.400 Has there been
00:33:13.680 a road map
00:33:14.760 of sorts
00:33:15.300 on how you might
00:33:16.340 get back into caucus
00:33:17.480 if that's something
00:33:18.180 you would at all
00:33:18.740 even be interested in
00:33:19.700 or is your view
00:33:21.360 that this is
00:33:22.220 kind of a permanent
00:33:23.320 response?
00:33:25.760 Well,
00:33:26.660 you know,
00:33:27.100 as a conservative
00:33:28.780 and as I was
00:33:29.980 one of the early people
00:33:31.200 to support
00:33:32.020 putting the two
00:33:33.240 legacy parties,
00:33:34.140 the Wild Rose
00:33:34.780 and the PCs together,
00:33:36.540 a lot of the
00:33:38.540 great work
00:33:39.320 done by our volunteers
00:33:40.820 in terms of policy
00:33:41.880 and governance
00:33:42.380 for the UCP
00:33:43.200 is great stuff.
00:33:44.640 There's a lot
00:33:45.080 of good stuff there.
00:33:47.500 So there's a lot
00:33:48.900 of things I'm aligned
00:33:49.700 with with the UCP
00:33:50.820 for sure
00:33:51.340 but at this point
00:33:52.500 what I am not
00:33:53.240 aligned with
00:33:53.880 is the leadership
00:33:54.880 so that would
00:33:56.660 have to change.
00:33:58.260 How alone,
00:33:59.740 if I can use the term,
00:34:00.820 do you feel you are
00:34:01.940 among your former
00:34:03.300 colleagues right now?
00:34:04.280 Because I've heard
00:34:05.060 whispers and rumors
00:34:06.680 of people that are
00:34:07.880 similarly dissatisfied
00:34:09.080 but when push comes
00:34:09.940 to shove,
00:34:10.300 I'm not hearing
00:34:10.980 the public displays
00:34:12.200 of support for you
00:34:13.080 and Todd right now.
00:34:15.020 Yeah,
00:34:15.440 thanks for that question.
00:34:16.460 No,
00:34:16.560 I feel quite strong
00:34:17.560 and thank them so much.
00:34:20.180 Several of them
00:34:20.660 spoke on my behalf.
00:34:22.640 Several of them
00:34:23.320 have texted me,
00:34:24.460 called me,
00:34:24.980 emailed,
00:34:25.800 offering support
00:34:27.040 and a chance to talk.
00:34:29.220 Yeah,
00:34:29.480 no,
00:34:29.680 I feel really strong
00:34:30.680 about it
00:34:31.120 and,
00:34:31.640 you know,
00:34:32.520 it was always
00:34:33.080 the same old age-old struggle.
00:34:35.020 Do you speak up
00:34:35.760 just from within
00:34:36.580 or do you speak up
00:34:37.860 publicly
00:34:38.840 or do you do both?
00:34:40.460 How does caucus
00:34:41.780 move a premier
00:34:43.020 and cabinet
00:34:43.580 to get them on track
00:34:45.420 to where Albertans
00:34:46.560 are happy with the direction
00:34:47.680 which again
00:34:48.620 is freedom
00:34:49.040 and prosperity,
00:34:50.260 you know,
00:34:50.600 in Albertans' books
00:34:51.560 and Cyprus Medicine hat.
00:34:53.080 So no,
00:34:53.560 there's a lot
00:34:54.660 of support there
00:34:55.640 for what I was doing
00:34:57.600 and what I was saying
00:34:58.640 especially when it comes
00:35:00.180 to,
00:35:00.460 you know,
00:35:00.980 pushing the envelope
00:35:01.740 with Ottawa
00:35:02.260 for a fair deal,
00:35:03.640 having regionalization
00:35:04.740 for the COVID restrictions,
00:35:06.620 smaller,
00:35:07.360 less expensive government.
00:35:08.560 There was lots of support
00:35:09.500 and I'm a little concerned
00:35:11.740 that my ejection
00:35:12.740 will lead some of them
00:35:14.400 to speak up less
00:35:15.620 because there's a penalty
00:35:16.860 to pay
00:35:17.360 but the other side
00:35:18.480 of that,
00:35:18.920 Andrew,
00:35:19.260 is I've had hundreds
00:35:21.000 of people
00:35:21.520 reach out to me
00:35:22.620 just in two or three days
00:35:23.760 and pat me on the back,
00:35:25.980 congratulate me,
00:35:26.640 offer me encouragement
00:35:27.480 is the main thing
00:35:28.640 and so
00:35:29.680 I'm really grateful
00:35:31.640 for that
00:35:32.140 and I will bet you
00:35:33.900 and I'll guarantee you
00:35:34.840 that my colleagues
00:35:35.720 will be the same.
00:35:36.580 When they stand
00:35:37.580 with their constituents,
00:35:38.820 they'll get support
00:35:39.600 and that's important.
00:35:41.280 That is,
00:35:41.880 I think,
00:35:42.160 a tremendously important point
00:35:43.760 because,
00:35:44.260 you know,
00:35:44.480 there's that old line
00:35:46.120 that,
00:35:46.420 you know,
00:35:46.700 eventually you're going
00:35:47.740 to run out of people
00:35:48.580 to stand up for you
00:35:50.040 if you don't stand up
00:35:51.180 for others
00:35:51.660 who go through this
00:35:52.540 and if there are
00:35:53.580 these frustrations,
00:35:54.620 if we are going to see
00:35:55.340 boiling points coming forward
00:35:56.800 on lockdown policy,
00:35:58.500 on Western alienations,
00:35:59.780 it stands to reason
00:36:00.540 that other people
00:36:01.260 will end up
00:36:02.160 in a very similar situation
00:36:03.420 and you're right,
00:36:04.140 when confronted with that,
00:36:05.060 you've got two choices,
00:36:06.020 you can either go along
00:36:07.360 with the group
00:36:07.840 or you can stand up
00:36:08.880 and I think a lot of people
00:36:10.040 might not realize
00:36:11.000 how many people
00:36:12.240 there are like them
00:36:13.440 that are out there
00:36:14.980 and that are even
00:36:15.560 within the caucus
00:36:16.320 and I think this is
00:36:17.140 especially true
00:36:17.840 for a party
00:36:18.660 that's a relatively new party,
00:36:20.580 a party that also
00:36:21.420 is in a first-term
00:36:22.920 majority government
00:36:24.080 which means you've got
00:36:24.740 a lot of first-term MLAs
00:36:26.400 that might not know
00:36:27.700 their own power.
00:36:30.000 Yeah,
00:36:30.480 yeah,
00:36:31.000 exactly
00:36:31.460 and they have tremendous power.
00:36:33.040 I mean,
00:36:33.760 87 of us
00:36:34.820 are paid by the taxpayers
00:36:35.960 of Alberta
00:36:36.640 to speak on the behalf
00:36:38.180 of 4.4 million Albertans
00:36:40.340 and the legislature
00:36:42.720 is the opportunity,
00:36:44.000 you know,
00:36:44.260 magnified through the media
00:36:45.320 like True North
00:36:46.320 to get those ideas out
00:36:48.300 and there's a tremendous
00:36:49.440 amount of power
00:36:50.220 and that power
00:36:51.060 comes from the people
00:36:52.540 and,
00:36:53.300 you know,
00:36:53.860 just my Facebook,
00:36:55.720 Twitter and LinkedIn stuff
00:36:57.080 since I put out
00:36:58.900 my statement,
00:36:59.940 you know,
00:37:00.180 saying that I was going
00:37:00.980 to,
00:37:01.240 you know,
00:37:01.760 be an independent conservative,
00:37:03.160 I was going to be the voice
00:37:04.640 of many Albertans
00:37:06.520 who felt their voices
00:37:07.300 weren't being heard.
00:37:08.360 It's in the thousands
00:37:09.420 that have reached out to me
00:37:10.940 and offered support
00:37:12.000 and ideas
00:37:12.600 and we're excited
00:37:15.200 about the opportunity
00:37:16.100 going forward
00:37:16.820 and,
00:37:17.640 you know,
00:37:18.320 I have good relations
00:37:20.020 with many of my
00:37:21.100 former colleagues
00:37:22.120 and I will always open
00:37:24.740 when the goal
00:37:26.180 is making Alberta
00:37:27.080 the best
00:37:27.680 and free and prosperous,
00:37:29.180 we all have our hearts
00:37:30.340 in that same thing.
00:37:31.480 So I'm optimistic,
00:37:33.420 I'm excited
00:37:33.860 that this will work out
00:37:35.160 better for Albertans.
00:37:35.980 Moving forward,
00:37:37.120 is your plan
00:37:37.780 to continue
00:37:38.440 to sit as an independent?
00:37:39.620 Are you looking at joining
00:37:40.600 the Wildrose Independence Party
00:37:42.540 or some other party?
00:37:43.840 And I guess extending on that,
00:37:45.420 what about the next election?
00:37:46.860 Well,
00:37:47.260 thank you.
00:37:47.600 Thank you very much.
00:37:49.700 First,
00:37:50.180 I'm going to be talking
00:37:50.760 to my family,
00:37:51.640 my wife
00:37:52.060 and I have three adult sons.
00:37:54.380 Then I'm going to spend
00:37:55.400 as much time
00:37:56.060 as possible
00:37:57.180 talking to my constituency
00:37:58.400 and see their preferences,
00:37:59.960 their ideas,
00:38:00.520 their decisions.
00:38:02.480 I'm grateful
00:38:03.180 that the people in WIPA,
00:38:05.260 people in other parties
00:38:06.320 have reached out to me
00:38:07.220 and talked to me
00:38:07.900 and I'm certainly willing
00:38:08.860 to hear their ideas
00:38:10.340 and that kind of thing.
00:38:11.980 But going forward,
00:38:12.740 I'm going to be sitting
00:38:13.420 as an independent,
00:38:14.920 talking to my constituents,
00:38:16.420 hearing what's important
00:38:17.360 and when it comes
00:38:18.260 to the next election,
00:38:19.460 you know,
00:38:20.080 I'm so grateful
00:38:20.840 that I'm in my 10th year,
00:38:22.080 my third term.
00:38:23.420 I'm honoured
00:38:24.160 to represent Cypress Medicine Hat
00:38:25.800 and I feel strongly
00:38:26.880 that I still have
00:38:27.880 the energy,
00:38:28.580 the ideas
00:38:29.160 and the desire
00:38:29.900 to serve Albertans
00:38:31.000 and to serve
00:38:31.560 Cypress Medicine Hat.
00:38:32.520 So at this point in time,
00:38:34.080 I'm keenly still interested
00:38:35.520 in public service
00:38:37.520 and future might be a bit
00:38:40.360 up and down
00:38:42.100 and topsy-turvy
00:38:43.260 the next little while.
00:38:44.060 So let's see what happens.
00:38:45.040 Newly independent
00:38:46.000 UCP MLA
00:38:46.920 for Cypress Medicine Hat,
00:38:48.360 Drew Barnes.
00:38:48.840 Drew, thanks so much
00:38:49.520 for coming on today.
00:38:51.740 Andrew,
00:38:52.120 thanks for talking to you.
00:38:53.600 That was former UCP MLA,
00:38:56.540 Drew Barnes,
00:38:57.120 still the MLA,
00:38:57.960 just not the UCP.
00:38:58.960 One of two ejected
00:39:00.360 over the weekend
00:39:01.260 for speaking out
00:39:02.260 against the UCP's leadership.
00:39:04.180 That does it for me.
00:39:05.400 For today,
00:39:05.940 we'll be back
00:39:06.400 in a couple days' time
00:39:07.400 with more of Canada's
00:39:08.560 most irreverent talk show
00:39:09.940 here on True North.
00:39:10.900 This is the Andrew Lawton Show.
00:39:12.460 Thank you,
00:39:13.000 God bless,
00:39:13.620 and good day to you all.
00:39:14.780 Thanks for listening
00:39:15.440 to the Andrew Lawton Show.
00:39:16.880 Support the program
00:39:17.680 by donating to True North
00:39:18.920 at www.tnc.news.