Juno News - April 03, 2021


How Following Quebec's Lead Might Help Alberta's Push for Independence

Topics
spending power in Ottawa equalization discussion
Mentioned
Andrew Lawton Show Maxime Bernier Brian Maroney Trudeau
Diversity and Exclusion： An Exclusive Q&A with Lindsay Shepherd Alberta Independence vs. Separation

Episode Stats


Length

10 minutes

Words per minute

167.72

Word count

1,806

Sentence count

113


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, I speak with Maxime Bernier, the so-called "Albertan from Quebec" and host of the People's Party of Canada's Freedom Talk conference. We discuss the similarities and differences between Alberta and Quebec, and how they can learn from each other.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 One of the interesting discussions that came about was the comparison between Alberta and
00:00:11.220 Quebec. Now, a lot of Alberta conservatives or Alberta independence-minded folks very much
00:00:16.400 rejected this because they see Quebec as being the example of, you know, just the greatest leech
00:00:21.380 in Canada. That's the perception to a lot of Albertans. But one thing Quebec has done,
00:00:26.360 or a number of things Quebec has done very well, is asserted its independence on things and said to
00:00:32.100 the federal government, you know what, come and get me. And now Quebec is a bit different because
00:00:37.200 it has a language basis for its cultural identity. And that's a language basis that the government of
00:00:42.760 Canada historically wants to accept, or at the very least is scared of. Nevertheless, Quebec has done
00:00:49.200 what a lot of Albertans want to, which is bring a lot of things that are currently under federal
00:00:53.840 jurisdiction into the provincial realm, whether it is a police force, whether it is a pension plan,
00:01:00.020 or any number of policy areas. And Maxime Bernier, the leader of the People's Party of Canada,
00:01:05.520 on whose show I actually appeared as a guest just a few days ago, he was one of the speakers. Now,
00:01:10.780 he's a federalist. He's not from Alberta. They call him the Albertan from Quebec, but he's a guy
00:01:15.120 who very much wants Canada to stay together. But he was saying that Alberta can learn from Quebec,
00:01:21.660 which I found was interesting. And talking to some of the few attendees who were at this
00:01:25.700 conference in person, it was interesting how a few of them actually had their backs up against
00:01:29.520 the wall at first, but then they ended up being a little bit more receptive to it once they heard,
00:01:34.640 oh yeah, there's a framework for this. We're not reinventing the wheel. Provinces have proven
00:01:38.660 that it is possible. You just need the political will to do it. This was my conversation on Alberta
00:01:44.100 independence with the so-called Albertan from Quebec, Maxime Bernier.
00:01:48.080 You've had for quite a while the nickname of the Albertan from Quebec, and it's actually
00:01:53.580 interesting. You're embraced quite robustly here at these Freedom Talk conferences. And
00:01:58.100 I wanted to ask you a little bit about what it is that Alberta and Quebec have in common,
00:02:03.600 because I know that a lot of Albertans have a lot of resentment towards Quebec because of all the
00:02:08.040 money that Quebec has taken in equalization over the years. But Quebec has also done, in a lot of
00:02:13.460 ways, what Alberta keeps talking about wanting to do. Yeah. Yeah. What I said yesterday, it's
00:02:18.780 important for us in Canada to know that we, politicians in Canada, be sure to know our
00:02:26.460 constitution and respect our constitution. And the only way to have changes in this country
00:02:30.380 is to have a radical decentralization, a downsize of the federal government. And actually, it would
00:02:35.920 be good for Alberta. But like in Quebec, Quebecers are asking for more autonomy. And I think Albertan
00:02:43.100 are asking for that. And the discussion that we had yesterday was about, you know, is it good if
00:02:49.020 Alberta has its own police force, own pension plan, own immigration selection system? I said, you know,
00:02:58.020 Quebec has that. And Quebec is doing that. So you can because it's in line with our constitution. So
00:03:05.240 you have to do it. And you don't need to wait for having the approval from the federal government.
00:03:11.700 Do it yourself. And each time the federal government will come with a national program
00:03:16.260 that usually are unconstitutional, you'll be able to ask to opt out and having the money for that.
00:03:22.240 So my goal was to tell them that what you want is doable at the provincial level. So elect
00:03:29.940 a political party at the provincial level that believe in more autonomy for your province and do
00:03:37.200 it and don't ask any permission. You said something interesting about that that I hadn't really
00:03:42.720 considered before, which was that the Bloc Québécois, which I think for many people, certainly in Canada
00:03:48.320 outside of Quebec is the face of the Quebec sovereignist movement. The Bloc Québécois has
00:03:53.600 done very little to advance Quebec's interests. You say it's all been done at the provincial level.
00:03:58.480 Yeah, absolutely. You're right. The Bloc Québécois did nothing to promote more decentralization. That
00:04:05.440 was always the provincial government, liberal government or PQ government or ADQ government.
00:04:11.680 They all believe, you know, when you're a politician, you want to control, you want to have a lot of power.
00:04:16.960 And that's what Quebecers, politicians at the provincial level want. So the Bloc Québécois did nothing to
00:04:23.520 promote the separatist movement during the 1980s or before or after that. That was the Quebec government
00:04:32.960 who did all that. So that's why I'm saying, you know, if you want to change at the federal level,
00:04:39.440 don't vote for a kind of a Bloc Québécois party for Western Canada, because if you want a real change
00:04:45.760 in this country, you'll need to say the same thing all across the country, to speak for every
00:04:52.640 Canadian across the country. And so that's why I was saying, you know, don't vote for the Maverick
00:04:57.440 Party. That's not the solution, because if you're really independentist and you want or you want more
00:05:02.240 autonomy, vote at the provincial level for the Wild Rose Independence Party.
00:05:07.520 A lot of people could accuse you of flirting with separatism when you talk about these things. But
00:05:13.360 in actuality, you're proposing what many would argue is the original form of federalism, which was
00:05:18.880 very strong provinces combined together in a federation with a federal government that has,
00:05:23.440 relatively speaking, little power. You were in the think tank world, you've been in law, you've seen
00:05:29.680 history. When did government get so big at the federal level? When did that really happen?
00:05:34.880 Well, it happened in the 1970s. And when you have the separatist movement in Quebec at that time,
00:05:41.760 and also in Alberta at that time, don't forget, Alberta elected a first separatist member of the
00:05:49.040 Legislative Assembly in 1982. So Quebec and Alberta, they have the same idea. They are fighting for their
00:05:56.640 autonomy. So your question about the Constitution and being sure to respect the Constitution,
00:06:04.880 the federal government usually wants to have more visibility and is buying vote with money. And the
00:06:12.400 best way to do that is to create a new program, a new national program. The best example is
00:06:17.680 is the scandal that we had in Quebec during the last referendum. Trudeau spent a lot of money in
00:06:25.520 Quebec to try to change the vote over there. But it's always the same. The federal government think that,
00:06:32.080 you know, if they don't show to their population that they're doing something for them, they won't be
00:06:37.120 reelected. But the Constitution, the father of our country, they didn't see our federation like that. Like you just said,
00:06:43.680 they have a strong sovereign province with their jurisdiction and their responsibilities. And the
00:06:49.520 federal government must be in charge of money, international affairs, and all inter-provincial
00:06:57.040 affairs also. So in the Constitution, you have usually a smaller government. But because of politics,
00:07:03.280 and politicians at the federal level that want to be reelected, try to create a new program that is
00:07:10.160 against the Constitution. And they're doing that because they have the money also. And that's all
00:07:15.680 the question of the spending power in Ottawa. They think that Canada and the federal government with
00:07:23.440 the surplus that they had during that time, they can spend money in exclusive provincial jurisdiction
00:07:29.360 and with some condition. But that's unconstitutional. That power doesn't exist in the Constitution.
00:07:39.040 The federal government doesn't have the right to spend money in provincial jurisdiction.
00:07:43.440 So, and that was so important that in the Lac-Miche Accord a long time ago, Brian Mironi put that,
00:07:49.520 he said in this accord, I want the federal government to have the right to spend money
00:07:54.000 into provincial jurisdiction. And they don't. So, you need to change that. You need to be sure. And
00:08:00.880 by the way, with what happened right now, with the discussion here in Alberta about the unity,
00:08:06.080 the pipelines and all that. And I think we'll have that discussion. We will have that discussion.
00:08:11.680 And we want to put that debate in from the news.
00:08:15.600 And I think that's hugely important because when you draw that contrast of Quebec and Alberta and
00:08:21.680 all the things Alberta could do, pension plan, income tax collection, police force, these things.
00:08:27.280 Pension.
00:08:28.080 Yeah. The difference is that Quebec has done all that while getting subsidized by the rest of the
00:08:34.240 country, including Alberta, whereas Alberta is still doing the subsidizing. And Alberta can do all of
00:08:39.920 that. But a lot of these discussions all lead back to equalization, which cannot be done unilaterally
00:08:45.840 by a province. Do you see any way that the federal government, liberal or conservative,
00:08:51.520 would take a redrawing, a reevaluation of equalization seriously?
00:08:56.400 I think they will have to do that today. What is the goal of the equalization formula? It's to be
00:09:00.960 sure that every citizen living in Moncton or in Calgary will have the same level of service from the
00:09:08.640 federal government, from their provincial government, sorry. So, that's why they want to help everybody
00:09:13.920 and having the same kind of living standard. But because of the recession right now, and maybe a
00:09:20.880 depression, because Alberta is in a deep recession right now, in two years they won't be able to give
00:09:29.040 money to other provinces. So, you have a kind of, it's bad to say, but every province will be at the
00:09:35.120 same poor level. And so, you will need to have a discussion about equalization. You will need to have
00:09:40.800 a discussion about how much money you're giving. And I think that will come. And at that time,
00:09:46.080 we will be there, we at the PPC, to force that discussion and force provinces, other provinces,
00:09:52.960 to develop their natural resources. You know, in Quebec, we receive equalization, but I don't believe
00:09:58.240 Quebec is a poor province. And Quebecers don't believe that also. They just want to develop their
00:10:04.960 natural resources. But the Quebec government say, no, no, we have a moratorium on shale gas,
00:10:09.440 where, and if they develop their shale gas, they won't receive so much money from the equalization.
00:10:14.960 So, there's no incentive for Quebec, New Brunswick, or other provinces to develop their economy. I think
00:10:20.400 that discussion will come. And that's why it's important. It's important for, for us at the BBC and
00:10:26.080 for, for Canadians that I think they need our voice in Ottawa. Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:10:32.560 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.
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