Juno News - August 04, 2023


How Kevin Spacey cleared his name (feat. Phelim McAleer)


Episode Stats

Length

33 minutes

Words per Minute

183.51239

Word Count

6,138

Sentence Count

436

Misogynist Sentences

1


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:05.620 This is The Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:10.560 Hello and welcome to you all.
00:00:12.580 This is another edition of The Andrew Lawton Show here on True North, Friday, August 4th.
00:00:17.900 And as is usually the tradition on our Friday show,
00:00:20.980 we try to break out of the usual format and not dwell simply on the news of the day
00:00:25.380 and talk about some of the bigger picture things that have been happening.
00:00:28.900 And for this one, we actually have to go back to almost a decade when the Me Too movement,
00:00:35.880 the hashtag Me Too movement emerged and became one of the most powerful cultural forces
00:00:41.760 that I have ever seen in the sense that it took down people who were titans of their fields,
00:00:48.120 people who were on the top of the world and were taken down in many cases in a long overdue way,
00:00:54.480 people that had been getting away with absolutely horrible things over time.
00:00:57.880 But as with anything else, we also saw a little bit of mission creep.
00:01:02.520 And the line between someone who was, say, a date rapist
00:01:06.700 and someone who simply had an awkward encounter on a date got blurrier and blurrier.
00:01:13.160 And we saw in the Me Too movement people who were casualties of this cultural tidal wave
00:01:19.100 that really were not villains.
00:01:20.680 And as a result, we have still, I think, a lot of questions that have been left unanswered
00:01:25.160 about which justice was correctly meted out and which justice was not.
00:01:31.060 Well, one of the biggest names that was taken down in the Me Too era was Kevin Spacey,
00:01:35.940 an actor who, at the time, the allegations against him were made.
00:01:39.820 And there were many of them.
00:01:40.880 He was really on the top.
00:01:42.920 He was starring in that Netflix movie or Netflix series, House of Cards,
00:01:46.560 which for a time was actually quite watchable.
00:01:49.360 It was decliningly so in the recent years.
00:01:52.400 But then we saw Kevin Spacey really just vanish.
00:01:55.780 I mean, one of the most chilling things that happened
00:01:57.620 was he was literally recast and replaced in a movie that had already been filmed.
00:02:03.560 Now, Christopher Blummer did a bang-up job in that,
00:02:06.240 but it doesn't exactly change that this guy was the poster boy for cancellation in that time.
00:02:12.540 Now, was it justified or was it not?
00:02:14.720 Well, as of just a couple of weeks ago,
00:02:17.440 he has now been exonerated in his second country,
00:02:20.900 cleared of all charges in the United Kingdom
00:02:23.740 in a trial that was covered quite extensively by a number of media outlets,
00:02:27.960 but none more than by the husband-wife duo Phelan McAleer and Anne McElhenney,
00:02:33.660 which, between the two of them, have a tremendous knack
00:02:36.640 for taking judicial proceedings and bringing them to life.
00:02:40.420 They ran a phenomenal podcast called Kevin Spacey Trial Unfiltered.
00:02:45.400 You can catch all the episodes at kevinspaceypodcast.com.
00:02:49.520 Phelan McAleer joins me now.
00:02:51.380 Phelan, good to talk to you.
00:02:52.260 Thanks for coming on today.
00:02:53.680 Thanks for having me on, Andrew.
00:02:54.880 Always a pleasure.
00:02:56.340 So, I mean, you and I have spoken in the past,
00:02:58.600 and you have done a tremendous job in so many different avenues
00:03:02.260 of bringing these court cases and proceedings to life here.
00:03:06.320 Why was this one that you wanted to get your hands on?
00:03:12.120 Good question.
00:03:13.260 Actually, I read about, we focused a lot on his previous trial in New York,
00:03:19.940 and I read about it in an obscure legal journal
00:03:22.740 where the journalist interviewed the lawyers,
00:03:26.500 and it was lawyers talking about it, not journalists funny.
00:03:30.920 And the guy wasn't a proper journalist,
00:03:32.880 and, you know, so therefore he wasn't polluted.
00:03:35.640 Therefore, he didn't have to put a spin on it.
00:03:37.960 And I was looking at it, I'm going, no, that couldn't be true.
00:03:40.300 That couldn't be true.
00:03:41.160 No, that couldn't be true.
00:03:42.740 I mean, this case went to trial,
00:03:44.560 and the more I read it, I realized this is mob justice.
00:03:48.360 This is the, and it's also the politicization of justice.
00:03:51.360 This is justice beholden to a political movement
00:03:55.840 and prosecuting and persecuting people for political reasons,
00:03:59.880 not for judicial reasons.
00:04:01.660 And, you know, as I say, they started with Spacey.
00:04:03.860 They're coming for you.
00:04:05.480 They're coming for someone you love, or they're coming for you next.
00:04:08.240 And, you know, this is part of the,
00:04:10.340 you can almost draw a line from Spacey to Trump
00:04:12.940 about how we've allowed justice to become more and more politicized
00:04:16.660 and more and more ludicrous.
00:04:17.920 And the media don't seem to care because it's coming for their enemies.
00:04:23.480 The Kevin Spacey allegations, I mean, they go back now so long,
00:04:27.180 people can go back and read them all for themselves.
00:04:29.300 But we had a range there.
00:04:30.740 I mean, there were some very serious ones from the actor, Anthony Rapp.
00:04:34.540 There were allegations of groping, of just in general creepy conduct.
00:04:38.580 And as I was saying in my preamble there,
00:04:40.840 there's a range of things that all tend to be viewed in the same way here.
00:04:45.380 And, you know, the one thing when I look at this,
00:04:47.900 that as far as Me Too casualties go,
00:04:51.880 there were people that did things that were wrong,
00:04:55.100 but weren't necessarily illegal.
00:04:57.120 And people that I don't actually think did anything wrong at all.
00:05:00.940 Which camp would you put Kevin Spacey in?
00:05:03.540 Is this a guy that, you know, the stuff he did was bad,
00:05:06.840 but didn't cross an illegal threshold?
00:05:08.940 Or do you think he was actually dealt an unfair hand from the get-go
00:05:12.560 and wasn't even really guilty of what he was being accused of?
00:05:15.380 He was completely not guilty of anything he was accused of.
00:05:19.880 This was more, this wasn't, as you say, mission creep.
00:05:24.800 This was false allegations.
00:05:27.300 And that's a big thing to say, right?
00:05:29.720 But nobody knows this case better than I do,
00:05:31.940 except I would suspect Kevin Spacey.
00:05:34.680 And, you know, I can quite clearly say,
00:05:37.380 and by the way, it's not me speaking.
00:05:38.900 The jury agreed with me.
00:05:39.820 The Anthony Rapp case, you know, BuzzFeed News,
00:05:43.120 just after they'd published the Steele dossier, by the way,
00:05:45.600 BuzzFeed News ran with this story with Kevin Spacey.
00:05:48.480 He was cancelled.
00:05:49.360 Anthony Rapp sued him four years later for $40 million.
00:05:55.360 Two weeks' evidence in a Manhattan courtroom
00:05:58.480 with a liberal Manhattan jury.
00:06:00.340 They took 45 minutes to exonerate him.
00:06:04.140 You know, and I don't know if you've ever served in a jury.
00:06:06.720 It takes 15 minutes to order the lunch,
00:06:09.000 15 minutes to nominate a foreman,
00:06:11.560 and then they decide, oh, what are we going to do with this?
00:06:14.500 They literally all went not guilty and let's go home.
00:06:17.180 That is how strong the evidence wasn't in the Anthony Rapp case.
00:06:23.180 Similarly in London, similarly in London,
00:06:25.860 I mean, there was a couple of the charges,
00:06:28.980 and I was thinking, you know, not only are they probably false,
00:06:32.440 but even if they were true, they shouldn't be in a court of law.
00:06:35.880 One of the things I found interesting,
00:06:37.780 and I didn't see this reported anywhere but in your coverage,
00:06:40.340 is that Kevin Spacey had, for whatever reason,
00:06:42.820 this obsessive hoarding of documents and records
00:06:47.480 to the point where he was able to produce like a cell phone
00:06:51.220 that he used 20 years ago in England,
00:06:53.600 which was used in some ways to exonerate him.
00:06:57.200 And often, I mean, that's, in a case that's a he said, he said case
00:07:01.260 or a he said, she said case, whichever it is,
00:07:03.480 no one has any evidence,
00:07:05.060 but he actually had the receipts, as the expression says.
00:07:08.980 Well, he literally had the receipts.
00:07:11.700 I mean, the statute of limitations are there for a reason.
00:07:14.940 And very interesting, they changed the statute of limitations in New York
00:07:18.160 so Anthony Rapp could sue Kevin Spacey.
00:07:21.480 You know, and then they used that to go after Trump.
00:07:24.020 E. Jean Carroll used that to go after Trump.
00:07:26.080 Classic example of, you know,
00:07:28.120 oh, let's change the law so that child abuse victims can get justice,
00:07:31.640 and then we go after our enemies using this new law.
00:07:35.740 Kevin Spacey, you know,
00:07:38.140 who can defend themselves against 35-year-old allegations from 1986
00:07:42.420 where it's alleged this happened and you were there
00:07:45.340 at this particular moment in time when that happened.
00:07:48.160 Kevin Spacey is one of the few people
00:07:49.640 in a ugly, disgusting, appalling storage warehouse.
00:07:55.040 Now, I'm not a storage locker, I'm a storage warehouse.
00:07:57.480 Kevin Spacey, and I've seen the photographs of it,
00:07:59.180 hundreds of cardboard boxes,
00:08:02.160 not even the nice plastic ones you get and you buy in Target or whatever.
00:08:06.720 These are just boxes that he picked up over the years.
00:08:09.360 Every document, every receipt, every bill, every invoice,
00:08:12.960 every letter, even the envelopes of the letter.
00:08:15.440 So Kevin Spacey in New York was able to prove,
00:08:19.460 A. Anthony Rapp said he was at a party,
00:08:23.360 he retreated to a bedroom to watch TV.
00:08:25.200 Spacey, after the party, came, stood in the bedroom door,
00:08:28.340 attacked him, he wriggled out.
00:08:30.360 Spacey was able to prove he lived in a studio apartment.
00:08:33.460 There was no bedroom.
00:08:34.600 There could be no bedroom for Anthony Rapp to retreat to.
00:08:37.360 There could be no bedroom door for Kevin Spacey
00:08:39.780 to stand in menacingly.
00:08:41.820 There could be no wriggling past the doorway.
00:08:44.640 So then, fast forward to the London case,
00:08:47.560 this guy said,
00:08:49.280 I was sexually assaulted.
00:08:50.600 And it was a serious sexual assault.
00:08:52.720 Ten years was the sentence.
00:08:55.800 At 4.30 in the morning, I woke up and this was happening.
00:08:59.300 Kevin Spacey said,
00:09:00.120 no, we had a consensual encounter.
00:09:02.920 He freaked out afterwards at 11.30 at night,
00:09:07.020 left in a hurry.
00:09:07.860 I phoned him, worried about him.
00:09:09.900 We had a conversation, he assured me.
00:09:11.460 And we communicated after that for several months.
00:09:13.960 So there's two different versions of events.
00:09:16.260 Kevin Spacey at the bottom.
00:09:17.900 And the guy says,
00:09:18.480 I can't remember my phone number from 2003.
00:09:21.500 So I can't give you the bills.
00:09:23.000 I can't give you anything.
00:09:24.160 Kevin Spacey at the bottom of one of these boxes
00:09:26.280 found this phone,
00:09:27.840 this British phone from 2003.
00:09:30.060 He also managed to get his phone bills from 2003.
00:09:33.820 And that showed a phone call between him
00:09:36.560 and this guy at 11.30 that lasted one minute.
00:09:40.140 The, as they call it, the bus stop phone call.
00:09:42.520 The guy was at the bus stop getting a bus going home
00:09:44.780 and Spacey phoned him to make sure he was okay.
00:09:47.340 There was no phone call between him,
00:09:49.380 between the two of them at 11.30.
00:09:51.340 There was nothing.
00:09:52.280 It got to the stage where the prosecution,
00:09:54.100 I kid you not,
00:09:55.320 the prosecution said,
00:09:56.760 the way this phone call can be explained
00:09:58.820 was that it was an accidental dial by Spacey.
00:10:02.800 Right?
00:10:04.380 The, the, the,
00:10:05.580 the complainant said,
00:10:08.360 asked to explain all the text messages
00:10:10.540 between him and Spacey in the,
00:10:12.300 afterwards said,
00:10:13.800 I think that when Spacey assaulted me,
00:10:16.340 he installed malware on my phone
00:10:18.580 to make it look like we would be texting,
00:10:21.120 uh, in the future.
00:10:22.820 So not only is Kevin Spacey,
00:10:24.140 this was in 2003,
00:10:25.780 2003, Kevin Spacey,
00:10:27.400 who knew Oscar winning actor,
00:10:29.380 super predator and tech nerd,
00:10:32.000 uh,
00:10:32.280 who can install malware on a 2003 phone
00:10:35.280 in the,
00:10:36.180 in the obvious event that in 20,
00:10:38.840 20 years time,
00:10:39.800 he's going to be accused of sexually assaulting him
00:10:42.320 and needs an alibi.
00:10:43.920 You know,
00:10:44.260 this is the kind of nonsense
00:10:45.560 that the jury had to endure in,
00:10:48.260 uh,
00:10:48.660 but by the way,
00:10:49.560 very little of this was printed
00:10:50.680 in the mainstream media.
00:10:51.700 They printed the allegations,
00:10:53.300 the Me Too allegations,
00:10:54.460 and their pens and laptops went silent,
00:10:56.860 uh,
00:10:57.500 during the,
00:10:58.300 during the ludicrous,
00:11:00.800 ludicrous,
00:11:01.680 uh,
00:11:03.040 uh,
00:11:03.580 uh,
00:11:04.080 uh,
00:11:05.080 uh,
00:11:05.260 evidence came out for the defense.
00:11:07.120 I mean,
00:11:07.580 the,
00:11:07.680 the Spacey's barrister was just fantastic.
00:11:10.300 I mean,
00:11:10.540 I can't remember his name,
00:11:11.680 but we called him Sir Buffton,
00:11:13.680 Tufton,
00:11:14.680 QFC,
00:11:15.500 FC,
00:11:16.140 BBC,
00:11:16.940 you know,
00:11:17.220 RSPCA,
00:11:18.100 KC.
00:11:18.560 He was just one of these classic English barristers,
00:11:20.860 probably about 110,
00:11:22.560 you know,
00:11:23.100 and,
00:11:23.620 uh,
00:11:23.780 there was one incident where,
00:11:25.880 you know,
00:11:26.260 he said,
00:11:27.000 now in complainant number three,
00:11:28.500 I want you all to remember as the jury to remember four features,
00:11:32.820 four features.
00:11:33.720 And we're all going for features,
00:11:35.020 you know,
00:11:35.240 truth,
00:11:35.620 justice,
00:11:35.960 whatever,
00:11:36.340 you know,
00:11:36.600 he goes,
00:11:37.080 four features are,
00:11:38.480 and in order of importance,
00:11:39.920 Guinness,
00:11:40.800 tequila,
00:11:41.620 Jägermeister,
00:11:42.460 and wine.
00:11:43.320 You know,
00:11:43.780 because they'd been on an all day drinking session and the guy admitted to having six or seven Guinness,
00:11:49.440 right?
00:11:49.600 And I,
00:11:49.920 and I,
00:11:50.440 it's a long time since I had that drink,
00:11:52.660 but back when I did,
00:11:53.920 I know when I said I had six or seven Guinness,
00:11:55.780 that means I had nine or 10 Guinness,
00:11:57.480 you know?
00:11:57.640 So he was completely drunk.
00:11:59.520 And then he went home to Spacey's and drank some weed and they had,
00:12:02.780 they had a little kiss.
00:12:05.080 And it's basically when he said,
00:12:07.260 I'm not gay Spacey backed off.
00:12:08.820 And then that was the charge.
00:12:10.820 And it's like,
00:12:11.640 it shouldn't have been brought to court anyway,
00:12:13.240 but,
00:12:14.080 uh,
00:12:14.500 the evidence then showed that,
00:12:16.520 that this didn't,
00:12:17.500 I mean,
00:12:17.800 it was ludicrous.
00:12:19.840 Some of the charges,
00:12:20.620 um,
00:12:21.660 and the jury.
00:12:23.240 So,
00:12:23.400 I mean,
00:12:23.620 that right there that you bring up is something we saw in other cases,
00:12:27.600 where,
00:12:28.060 uh,
00:12:28.760 you know,
00:12:29.020 men who thought that a date was going one way and,
00:12:32.400 you know,
00:12:32.520 tried to make a pass and were rebuffed and stopped it,
00:12:35.780 were being accused of having committed some heinous sex crime.
00:12:40.420 And I,
00:12:41.060 I think in some cases that was when even some of the people that were all in on the
00:12:45.440 Me Too movement,
00:12:46.180 not all,
00:12:46.820 some started to back up and say,
00:12:48.280 okay,
00:12:48.880 maybe we've pushed this too far.
00:12:50.380 I remember one of them that came up was this comedian in the U S Aziz Ansari,
00:12:53.880 who,
00:12:54.140 uh,
00:12:54.580 was basically accused of,
00:12:56.040 of just having an awkward date and,
00:12:57.760 and was the subject of an attempt to,
00:13:00.240 uh,
00:13:00.780 dismantle his career.
00:13:02.240 But the fact that that even got to trial,
00:13:04.900 even after we've had some time to look back and say,
00:13:08.140 okay,
00:13:08.400 maybe we can lower the temperature on this.
00:13:10.660 I mean,
00:13:10.800 why was that charge ever made in the first place?
00:13:13.420 I think they just,
00:13:14.540 they,
00:13:14.780 they wanted,
00:13:15.340 they knew the quality was bad.
00:13:17.040 So they were going for the quantity and you get this with some cases.
00:13:20.060 Sometimes juries will say no smoke without fire.
00:13:22.920 We'll,
00:13:23.440 we'll give,
00:13:24.260 we'll,
00:13:24.440 we'll clear him on all of these,
00:13:26.180 but convict them on that.
00:13:27.640 And they were hoping for that.
00:13:28.760 I mean,
00:13:29.280 it was ludicrous.
00:13:30.080 So Spacey,
00:13:30.920 I think,
00:13:31.900 I can't,
00:13:32.400 I think agrees.
00:13:33.720 Yeah.
00:13:33.860 He,
00:13:34.160 the,
00:13:34.380 the guy let Spacey's dog out of a room.
00:13:36.640 It's a long story.
00:13:37.600 And the guy passes,
00:13:38.760 I'm really sorry.
00:13:39.440 Spacey says,
00:13:39.900 Oh,
00:13:40.020 no problem.
00:13:40.400 Give me a hug.
00:13:40.960 After six,
00:13:42.100 Guinness,
00:13:42.480 three,
00:13:42.760 Jägermeister,
00:13:43.360 two,
00:13:44.940 two tequila,
00:13:46.060 and several glasses of wine and a joint.
00:13:48.400 They hugged,
00:13:49.040 right?
00:13:49.560 As Casey,
00:13:50.240 Spacey says,
00:13:50.940 and it's great,
00:13:51.680 kissed him twice on the neck in the hug.
00:13:54.600 And now there's a dispute whether Spacey also touched them.
00:13:58.240 I believe in the guy says the touch was two out of 10.
00:14:00.520 Right.
00:14:01.020 Um,
00:14:01.500 and the guy said,
00:14:02.640 I don't bat for that team.
00:14:04.080 He says,
00:14:04.500 Spacey pulled back with a look of panic in his eyes,
00:14:06.960 left immediately and went to another room and closed the door.
00:14:10.940 The classic bad pass.
00:14:13.840 Right.
00:14:14.240 And it's like,
00:14:16.360 what is this doing in a court of law?
00:14:19.640 You know,
00:14:20.080 the guy,
00:14:20.560 it was a running joke between him and his mates,
00:14:22.580 right?
00:14:23.480 Uh,
00:14:23.840 for years afterwards until he's,
00:14:25.680 he said,
00:14:26.420 and then,
00:14:26.840 I mean,
00:14:27.140 this guy,
00:14:27.680 I mean,
00:14:28.320 so,
00:14:28.960 uh,
00:14:29.320 then this is the,
00:14:30.680 the Jägermeister guy.
00:14:31.860 He said,
00:14:33.380 Sir Bufton Tufton,
00:14:34.580 the QC or KC said to him,
00:14:36.660 have you ever corresponded with Mr.
00:14:38.380 Spacey?
00:14:38.700 I don't recall.
00:14:39.480 I was going,
00:14:39.720 that's a really funny answer.
00:14:40.740 I don't recall.
00:14:41.520 Have you ever written to him through his website?
00:14:42.880 I don't recall.
00:14:43.900 Okay.
00:14:44.740 So it turns out at 2 PM in the afternoon,
00:14:47.520 not 3 PM,
00:14:48.700 3 AM after a feed of drink,
00:14:50.340 2 PM in the afternoon,
00:14:51.220 he wrote to Kevin Spacey.com and said,
00:14:53.840 I'm willing to withdraw from court kiss in return for a settlement.
00:14:59.300 Right.
00:14:59.700 And it's like,
00:15:01.200 and we're hearing from this guy.
00:15:02.520 This is the guy who should be charged with extortion rather than,
00:15:06.760 uh,
00:15:07.100 having Kevin Spacey in a,
00:15:08.880 in a glass dock in,
00:15:10.600 in the horrible Southwark crown court,
00:15:13.020 uh,
00:15:14.160 facing,
00:15:14.680 you know,
00:15:15.180 facing,
00:15:15.800 uh,
00:15:16.420 years in prison.
00:15:17.280 So the challenge here is that as you and,
00:15:21.800 and Anne have noted,
00:15:22.880 Kevin Spacey has been exonerated in two countries and two courts.
00:15:26.600 He has yet to have had any allegation against Tim stick,
00:15:30.260 but I don't believe there will be any reversal of the career damage and the reputational damage.
00:15:37.560 I mean,
00:15:38.000 I don't think Netflix is going to be calling him up and saying,
00:15:40.620 I'm so sorry.
00:15:41.660 We'd like to include you in the house of cards reboot.
00:15:43.880 I don't believe that,
00:15:44.820 uh,
00:15:45.360 you know,
00:15:45.560 all the money in the world part two is going to,
00:15:47.840 you know,
00:15:48.160 replace Christopher Plummer with Kevin Spacey.
00:15:50.200 So is there a bittersweet aspect to this where,
00:15:53.540 you know,
00:15:53.820 yes,
00:15:54.080 you have justice,
00:15:54.860 but not really.
00:15:57.620 I think it's just a bitter,
00:15:59.220 bitter aspect to it.
00:16:00.560 I mean,
00:16:00.800 it's,
00:16:01.120 it's,
00:16:01.360 it's terrible.
00:16:01.980 And,
00:16:02.380 you know,
00:16:02.640 this is when you,
00:16:03.200 when you hear about all these producers and all these studios complain about their finances and actors,
00:16:09.620 you know,
00:16:10.500 look,
00:16:10.940 who wouldn't want to see a show with Kevin Spacey in it now,
00:16:18.300 you know,
00:16:18.680 maybe a show about a man wrongly accused of something,
00:16:21.800 you know,
00:16:22.360 uh,
00:16:22.800 maybe,
00:16:23.360 you know,
00:16:23.740 but they,
00:16:25.540 they don't have that imagination.
00:16:26.960 They don't have the courage.
00:16:28.000 I mean,
00:16:28.480 when you think about it,
00:16:29.340 cutting Spacey out of all the money in the world,
00:16:31.280 it was Stalin-esque.
00:16:32.300 That's what Stalin used to do against his enemies,
00:16:34.820 you know,
00:16:35.300 replace them from the photographs or remove them before Photoshop was a thing.
00:16:39.320 He was,
00:16:39.520 he was able to do that.
00:16:41.380 So,
00:16:42.100 um,
00:16:42.640 yeah,
00:16:43.120 I don't think,
00:16:44.380 no,
00:16:44.620 I don't,
00:16:44.960 I mean,
00:16:45.640 I,
00:16:46.440 I just find it hard to believe now that he will regain his career,
00:16:50.880 will,
00:16:51.200 will regain his place in,
00:16:54.640 in society.
00:16:55.520 I,
00:16:55.620 I just can't,
00:16:56.520 I just can't see it.
00:16:58.340 No.
00:16:58.400 And,
00:16:58.660 and,
00:16:58.900 and,
00:16:58.940 uh,
00:17:00.840 it's,
00:17:01.200 and why not?
00:17:03.280 I mean,
00:17:03.620 just to correct you there,
00:17:04.920 Andrew,
00:17:05.240 he's been exonerated in three courts in two continents.
00:17:08.140 I mean,
00:17:08.580 there was the New York one,
00:17:09.780 which took 45 minutes.
00:17:10.780 I mean,
00:17:11.180 the other one in Nantucket,
00:17:12.640 which we devote an episode to in our podcast.
00:17:15.600 Yes.
00:17:15.880 I mean,
00:17:16.500 when you have the complainant pleading the fifth,
00:17:21.160 because he says,
00:17:22.500 because the judges warned him,
00:17:23.720 he could be charged with tampering with evidence.
00:17:26.380 Right.
00:17:27.820 You know,
00:17:28.320 when you have the complainant pleading the fifth,
00:17:30.160 you know,
00:17:30.480 the charges are rough.
00:17:31.620 The only person likely facing criminal charges after the Nantucket case was the complainant and his mother.
00:17:39.760 Right.
00:17:40.420 So exonerated.
00:17:41.840 I mean,
00:17:42.040 that's,
00:17:42.460 you know,
00:17:42.860 that's a,
00:17:44.300 that's one step beyond exonerated.
00:17:46.120 Imagine the jury says you're not guilty.
00:17:47.900 They didn't even get to court.
00:17:48.820 The judge says you're not guilty.
00:17:49.820 The prosecutor says you're not guilty.
00:17:51.100 And we were thinking about charging the complainant with tampering with evidence.
00:17:55.740 So you couldn't ask for a more exonerating exoneration,
00:18:01.280 if that's the right phrase,
00:18:03.020 but no,
00:18:03.800 it's a bitter,
00:18:04.580 bitter for Kevin Spacey,
00:18:07.100 because I think he's not going to get anything back.
00:18:09.480 The,
00:18:09.720 the one thing that is so difficult for anyone that's ever been canceled,
00:18:13.120 they all say something very similar to this is when they get their friends who believe that all the stuff is nonsense,
00:18:20.540 but want nothing to do with them because they're worried about their reputation.
00:18:23.840 And this is something that we see anytime someone has been canceled,
00:18:27.280 the,
00:18:27.440 the quiet allies,
00:18:28.700 the quiet supporters,
00:18:29.700 it was actually quite pleasing and quite moving to see Elton John,
00:18:34.520 who has a lot to lose in his career.
00:18:37.100 If he were to get canceled and tarnished,
00:18:40.380 actually take a stand as a defense witness for Kevin Spacey.
00:18:45.580 And I read a piece that you and Anne wrote in Spiked,
00:18:48.600 and that actually carries a huge amount of weight in the United Kingdom.
00:18:52.740 When you've got Sir Elton John on your side,
00:18:55.260 Sir Elton John.
00:18:56.480 I mean,
00:18:56.720 so I was sitting there in the courtroom and the background was this guy was saying,
00:19:01.840 oh,
00:19:02.120 I was a driver for Elton John and did security for him.
00:19:05.100 And the barrister said,
00:19:05.860 I put it to you.
00:19:06.640 Sir Buffton Tufton said,
00:19:08.060 I,
00:19:08.280 Casey,
00:19:08.680 I put it to you that you did not ever drive.
00:19:11.100 And I thought,
00:19:12.080 so I went out of the courtroom and I literally phoned a friend of mine who's a barrister.
00:19:15.400 And I said,
00:19:15.920 when he said that,
00:19:16.940 does that mean Elton John's going to give evidence?
00:19:19.460 And,
00:19:19.700 and he goes,
00:19:21.140 he says,
00:19:21.480 they wouldn't have said it if they couldn't prove it.
00:19:23.320 He says,
00:19:23.640 if I was the prosecutor there,
00:19:24.800 I would do everything I could to stop Elton John setting foot in that courtroom.
00:19:30.440 If Elton John says you are innocent,
00:19:33.680 it's like the queen mother saying you're innocent,
00:19:35.520 right?
00:19:35.820 If he rides to your defense and,
00:19:38.260 you know,
00:19:39.620 and,
00:19:41.100 and so,
00:19:42.120 but,
00:19:42.340 and that's what happened there.
00:19:43.220 He did video link in and,
00:19:44.700 and funny thing is he didn't,
00:19:48.460 his evidence was quite technical.
00:19:50.460 Actually,
00:19:50.780 he didn't say Kevin Spacey is innocent.
00:19:52.880 He,
00:19:52.980 but he,
00:19:53.240 he stood up and he,
00:19:54.440 he took the time out of his schedule.
00:19:56.300 And Elton John has this national treasure status in the UK,
00:20:00.840 which is a lot to lose.
00:20:02.700 International.
00:20:03.340 Yeah,
00:20:03.480 international.
00:20:04.200 So,
00:20:04.780 so that's a lot to lose.
00:20:08.280 Like that's a,
00:20:08.980 that takes tremendous courage because you're actually risking,
00:20:11.680 you know,
00:20:13.980 beatification that you've had to stand up for this guy who,
00:20:19.220 by the way,
00:20:19.740 it wouldn't matter if you didn't stand up for him.
00:20:22.060 No one,
00:20:22.500 no one,
00:20:23.140 but,
00:20:23.480 but obviously he had some kind of sense of,
00:20:26.300 of duty to tell the truth.
00:20:28.180 And he,
00:20:29.800 his truth,
00:20:30.700 it wasn't,
00:20:31.280 he didn't stand up and say Kevin Spacey.
00:20:33.180 It was funny.
00:20:33.720 His evidence was very technical.
00:20:35.540 Kevin Spacey did not come to my house on that day.
00:20:38.280 He was not at this party.
00:20:39.860 We have no evidence of that.
00:20:41.080 This guy never drove for me.
00:20:43.260 He,
00:20:43.460 he never played.
00:20:44.580 It was security for me.
00:20:45.720 Now it meant that the biggest assault,
00:20:49.040 it's one of the biggest assaults.
00:20:50.120 Spacey was charged with,
00:20:51.720 could not physically have happened.
00:20:53.240 That's what his evidence said there.
00:20:54.540 And he also,
00:20:55.100 it helped characterize the complainant as a,
00:20:57.580 an exaggerator or fantasist,
00:20:59.500 but it was very factual and very narrow.
00:21:02.400 So,
00:21:03.340 yeah,
00:21:04.100 I mean,
00:21:04.760 I happen to know,
00:21:07.100 I,
00:21:07.380 I've never spoken to Kevin Spacey,
00:21:09.580 uh,
00:21:10.400 uh,
00:21:10.700 but I've spoken to people around him,
00:21:12.860 not,
00:21:13.520 you know,
00:21:13.660 and I asked about,
00:21:15.100 was there much,
00:21:16.340 was there anyone who'd like to come on the podcast,
00:21:18.460 any of his friends or anything like that?
00:21:20.480 And the,
00:21:21.180 the answer was all of his friends have deserted him.
00:21:24.460 So he did lose everything in that sense.
00:21:27.980 And you weren't even getting the sense that there were people that were still around him,
00:21:32.460 but were kind of keeping quiet.
00:21:33.700 You were hearing that they all bolted.
00:21:36.100 Yes.
00:21:36.880 Yes.
00:21:37.520 And he said in court that he's running out of money too.
00:21:42.340 Um,
00:21:43.020 no,
00:21:43.240 and I assume you would think he hasn't,
00:21:45.060 but I assume he wouldn't lie about something like that.
00:21:47.260 Cause it's provable.
00:21:48.260 Yeah.
00:21:48.660 He's running out of money.
00:21:49.520 And,
00:21:49.920 and,
00:21:50.180 and the fee,
00:21:50.840 no,
00:21:51.000 it's secondhand.
00:21:51.740 It's not firsthand information.
00:21:53.180 It could even be third hand that,
00:21:55.160 that,
00:21:55.540 that the friends have deserted him.
00:21:57.620 Mm-hmm.
00:21:58.760 But,
00:21:59.200 but even on the money,
00:22:00.000 I mean,
00:22:00.280 you,
00:22:00.420 you know,
00:22:01.080 certainly in the United States,
00:22:02.740 the cost of defending yourself is astronomical in,
00:22:06.580 in the United Kingdom.
00:22:07.400 I mean,
00:22:07.700 this was a week's long trial,
00:22:09.500 uh,
00:22:10.220 and,
00:22:10.520 and no matter how shrewd you are an investor and how many millions you've made,
00:22:13.940 it can go away overnight,
00:22:15.200 especially if you're talking about a guy that hasn't really been cast in anything in now,
00:22:19.320 nine years.
00:22:20.580 Yeah.
00:22:20.920 Well,
00:22:21.280 the trial in the UK,
00:22:22.620 I think was three to four weeks,
00:22:23.920 right?
00:22:24.520 The trial in the,
00:22:25.580 in the U S Anthony rap was two weeks.
00:22:28.100 The Nantucket one was a week of pre-trial.
00:22:31.560 Um,
00:22:32.660 and you know,
00:22:33.560 I spoke to one of the lawyers,
00:22:35.100 uh,
00:22:35.740 who,
00:22:35.980 who defend one of the lawyers who defended him.
00:22:38.000 And I said,
00:22:38.660 how much work of you?
00:22:39.460 Cause this guy has an encyclopedic knowledge.
00:22:41.680 Now,
00:22:42.760 uh,
00:22:43.280 some ways was worth it.
00:22:44.580 He said thousands of hours.
00:22:46.220 Now,
00:22:46.660 I don't know these guys,
00:22:47.680 what do they get?
00:22:48.120 A thousand dollars an hour,
00:22:49.120 $1,500 an hour.
00:22:50.500 We're talking millions here.
00:22:51.720 We're talking millions.
00:22:52.740 And that's just for one lawyer.
00:22:54.460 Uh,
00:22:55.120 so,
00:22:55.680 and you know,
00:22:57.100 this is all after tax money and apparently Netflix sued him and got a lot of money back
00:23:01.920 off him and all this.
00:23:02.940 And,
00:23:03.500 you know,
00:23:04.400 things could think,
00:23:06.220 as you say that when there's not,
00:23:07.640 you know,
00:23:07.880 Oh,
00:23:08.400 it was a Dickens character said,
00:23:09.860 you know,
00:23:10.220 in,
00:23:10.560 incomings versus outcomings,
00:23:12.100 you know,
00:23:12.400 that's when the trouble starts and,
00:23:14.940 uh,
00:23:15.100 there's no incomings and a lot of outgoings.
00:23:18.560 I know you've spent a lot of time in Hollywood and unfortunately kept your,
00:23:22.980 your sanity and intact throughout that.
00:23:25.220 But I I'm curious,
00:23:26.540 Phelan,
00:23:26.880 what your sense is on kind of the mood there now versus in 2014,
00:23:33.060 because in,
00:23:33.800 in 2014,
00:23:34.500 when the me too wave kept in,
00:23:36.960 I stand by that.
00:23:38.120 There were people that I think very much deserved what they got.
00:23:42.220 And that doesn't mean I thought the process itself was appropriate,
00:23:45.200 but I think the outcome might've been.
00:23:46.980 And I think that right there is the distinction is that a lot of people right now do not care
00:23:51.160 about process.
00:23:52.020 And I'm wondering if you think there's been a bit of regret about that,
00:23:55.700 or have people just sort of closed the book and moved on and said,
00:23:58.640 what happened happened?
00:23:59.360 Well,
00:24:01.460 I think it was me too.
00:24:03.240 It was actually,
00:24:03.840 it was a 2017 or it was 2016.
00:24:06.140 It was a bit later,
00:24:07.140 but I have sensed no regret at all.
00:24:10.380 All I'm getting is people saying,
00:24:13.960 thank God you're doing this.
00:24:15.060 We knew it was a load of nonsense all along.
00:24:18.000 Right.
00:24:19.440 So there's,
00:24:20.760 for those who went full in,
00:24:23.180 all in,
00:24:23.920 no regret.
00:24:24.940 For those who kept quiet,
00:24:27.260 secret,
00:24:27.780 they're secretly glad we're doing this.
00:24:29.680 Right.
00:24:29.900 But I've yet to meet.
00:24:33.280 Now,
00:24:33.580 we do get emails from members of the public who thank us for this,
00:24:37.720 because they,
00:24:38.080 they just bought the story as well.
00:24:40.780 But no,
00:24:41.100 at that upper elite level,
00:24:42.460 there's no regret.
00:24:43.420 You know,
00:24:43.720 look,
00:24:43.980 I,
00:24:44.160 we always said this when we used to cover the environmental movement,
00:24:46.540 they would have a scare every five years.
00:24:49.680 This is going to give us cancer that.
00:24:51.220 And,
00:24:51.460 and it would always be proven wrong,
00:24:53.240 but you know,
00:24:53.640 being an environmentalist means never having to say you're sorry.
00:24:57.560 And I think being an elite Hollywood,
00:25:01.140 elite Hollywood hypocrite means never having to say you're sorry.
00:25:05.520 Also,
00:25:06.680 who's going to call you out on what's,
00:25:08.260 what's the gain,
00:25:09.080 you know,
00:25:10.080 but it's not even,
00:25:11.580 it's not even that self-interested.
00:25:13.360 It's that self-deluded.
00:25:14.580 They don't think there's anything to be sorry for.
00:25:16.460 Until funny enough,
00:25:17.500 until it comes for someone they know,
00:25:19.420 like,
00:25:20.000 and that's really a lot of damage to me too.
00:25:22.340 Movement was when,
00:25:23.040 when they came,
00:25:23.720 it was Cuomo and Cuomo wrote to his friends in Hollywood and said,
00:25:28.220 help.
00:25:29.740 And they helped him.
00:25:30.660 And then the emails came out.
00:25:32.620 I think it was the leadership of the me too.
00:25:34.440 Movement helped him because,
00:25:35.780 Hey,
00:25:36.040 it's Andrew Cuomo.
00:25:36.900 We know he wouldn't do that.
00:25:38.040 And I'm going,
00:25:38.700 well,
00:25:39.100 do you ever think that applying those,
00:25:41.200 that strict rigor of,
00:25:42.620 of,
00:25:43.020 of,
00:25:43.300 of proof and all that,
00:25:44.800 and due process to all the other peoples whose lives you've ruined?
00:25:49.540 Yeah,
00:25:49.980 I know.
00:25:50.300 And,
00:25:50.400 and you're right.
00:25:50.820 And I apologize for mixing up the date for whatever reason.
00:25:53.020 I had 2014 burned into my mind,
00:25:54.920 but it was 2017.
00:25:55.880 So we're,
00:25:56.420 we're talking about six years.
00:25:57.600 So amend anytime.
00:25:58.420 I've mentioned nearly a decade to that,
00:26:01.100 but I think everything else still stands.
00:26:02.920 And your point about Cuomo was a valid one.
00:26:05.140 I mean,
00:26:05.400 the,
00:26:05.540 the way that believe all women,
00:26:07.900 which was the refrain of 2017 evaporated when Tara Reid accused Joe Biden of sexual wrongdoing.
00:26:16.180 And then it was Joe Biden.
00:26:17.600 And I remember there was that one press conference he gave where he had to like explain,
00:26:20.860 no,
00:26:21.060 no,
00:26:21.160 no.
00:26:21.440 I,
00:26:21.580 I said,
00:26:22.140 we should not know we,
00:26:23.580 we shouldn't just be like,
00:26:24.420 he,
00:26:24.560 he couldn't explain how his position had changed when he was the guy being accused of this.
00:26:31.200 And,
00:26:31.380 and,
00:26:31.620 you know,
00:26:31.740 again,
00:26:32.060 Bill Clinton,
00:26:32.580 if the standard applied to Donald Trump was applied to Bill Clinton,
00:26:36.000 the guy would be in prison right now.
00:26:38.580 Yes.
00:26:39.280 Yeah.
00:26:39.700 So,
00:26:40.460 so yeah,
00:26:41.140 there's no,
00:26:43.400 there's no reckoning in Hollywood.
00:26:44.760 There's no sense of embarrassment that,
00:26:47.580 you know,
00:26:47.880 cause the mainstream media haven't covered this,
00:26:49.660 um,
00:26:50.420 you know,
00:26:50.720 and they haven't covered the implications for Kevin Spacey being exonerated in three courts,
00:26:56.780 in two jurisdictions.
00:26:59.480 And I think this is the end of it.
00:27:01.920 And I mean,
00:27:03.940 if you listen to the podcast,
00:27:05.380 if you listen to the Anthony Rapp podcast,
00:27:07.380 it was,
00:27:08.560 it was corrupt journalism colluding with false allegations to get a story.
00:27:13.820 And destroyed that man's life.
00:27:16.380 And there's no,
00:27:17.580 there's no,
00:27:18.100 everyone's Anthony Rapp is now a major international activist slash actor.
00:27:23.380 The journalist went from Buzzfeed.
00:27:25.180 He's now a senior writer in variety.
00:27:27.700 Everyone's done very well out of it.
00:27:29.700 Uh,
00:27:29.940 and a jury took 45 minutes to order lunch,
00:27:33.740 arrange a format and exonerate them.
00:27:35.980 So,
00:27:36.460 uh,
00:27:37.240 no,
00:27:37.700 there's no,
00:27:39.000 no,
00:27:39.500 not much grounds for optimism.
00:27:41.960 Now,
00:27:42.480 I don't want you to give away anything too,
00:27:45.000 too much.
00:27:45.440 If you have plans and look,
00:27:46.620 you already always have plans for something or other,
00:27:48.560 but,
00:27:48.820 uh,
00:27:49.260 do you think this could warrant the,
00:27:51.640 uh,
00:27:52.040 fictionalized treatment or the dramatized treatment that some of your other projects have this trial?
00:27:57.500 It's funny.
00:28:00.060 Uh,
00:28:00.740 a very,
00:28:02.300 very,
00:28:02.560 very prominent Hollywood producer reached out to us,
00:28:06.160 right?
00:28:06.800 Someone had sent him the podcast and we got all excited,
00:28:10.300 right?
00:28:10.660 Because we thought,
00:28:11.220 I mean,
00:28:12.440 if you listen to the podcast,
00:28:13.240 I mean,
00:28:13.400 it's unbelievable.
00:28:14.780 Kevin Spacey was saved by a dream,
00:28:17.520 right?
00:28:18.240 That,
00:28:18.740 you know,
00:28:19.040 so he,
00:28:19.840 he,
00:28:20.200 he couldn't,
00:28:21.380 he didn't know when it happened.
00:28:22.760 He couldn't remember.
00:28:23.640 He was an itinerant actor at the time,
00:28:25.780 1986,
00:28:26.600 moving from sublease to sublease,
00:28:28.480 you know,
00:28:28.920 trying to get the cheapest place to stay in New York.
00:28:32.420 He didn't know where he was staying.
00:28:33.860 He had a dream that he was living in a studio.
00:28:37.200 I kid you not.
00:28:38.260 And it's all in an email.
00:28:39.140 I've got the email that was part of the court documents that he says,
00:28:42.960 I was living in a studio at that time.
00:28:45.060 Oh,
00:28:45.540 that studio.
00:28:46.200 He then went to his boxes and found the floor plan,
00:28:49.060 found the lease,
00:28:50.400 found letters that he had written to his mother about his studio apartment,
00:28:54.500 no bedroom,
00:28:55.260 nothing.
00:28:56.580 Uh,
00:28:57.160 then,
00:28:57.740 oh,
00:28:58.020 then,
00:28:58.400 then secret emails between the journalist and Anthony Rapp emerged where Anthony
00:29:04.940 Rapp got things really,
00:29:06.400 really wrong.
00:29:07.360 And the journalist said,
00:29:08.460 we can't print this cause it's wrong.
00:29:10.180 So what we'll do is we'll disguise what you said or we'll not print it.
00:29:13.620 So the,
00:29:14.240 so the journalist,
00:29:15.100 so they were running interference quite openly for allegations that even they
00:29:19.040 saw weren't necessarily accurate.
00:29:21.160 Yeah.
00:29:22.020 Yeah.
00:29:22.680 Not openly colluding behind it before the story was published.
00:29:25.840 Right.
00:29:26.340 They,
00:29:26.740 they,
00:29:26.840 they,
00:29:27.020 they realized his story was filled with errors and inconsistencies.
00:29:30.040 So they just didn't publish those.
00:29:32.040 Or at one stage,
00:29:33.500 the journalist sent an email saying,
00:29:35.360 we'll keep the story deliberately vague in that respect.
00:29:38.340 So spacey can't refute it.
00:29:40.680 Right.
00:29:41.120 That's an actual email between the journalist and the interviewee.
00:29:45.180 And I mean,
00:29:46.420 it's a great story.
00:29:47.340 And I thought we got all excited,
00:29:48.680 uh,
00:29:49.560 because we thought this guy has spotted that potential wants to option it,
00:29:52.880 whatever.
00:29:53.320 And we,
00:29:54.100 we spoke to him and he said,
00:29:56.660 Oh,
00:29:56.920 he said,
00:29:57.240 beautiful podcast.
00:29:58.860 Loved it.
00:29:59.320 I just,
00:29:59.780 it's an amazing story.
00:30:00.900 I said,
00:30:01.140 is there a movie in it?
00:30:01.980 He said too soon,
00:30:03.200 you know,
00:30:03.480 and I'm going that to me,
00:30:04.940 that means I should do it now.
00:30:07.400 Right.
00:30:08.400 Uh,
00:30:08.720 yeah.
00:30:08.920 You have to wait until no one cares about it enough to be mad to do it.
00:30:11.920 Apparently.
00:30:12.960 Yes.
00:30:13.580 Yeah.
00:30:13.920 And you know,
00:30:14.700 it's now is exactly the time to do this amazing story.
00:30:18.340 It's,
00:30:18.620 it's,
00:30:18.860 it's filled with Hollywood twists and subplots.
00:30:22.860 I mean,
00:30:23.180 the people in Nantucket,
00:30:24.320 the complainant in Nantucket,
00:30:25.620 uh,
00:30:26.180 deleted texts from his,
00:30:28.260 from his phone.
00:30:29.300 And,
00:30:29.840 uh,
00:30:30.380 when Spacey's team said,
00:30:31.580 we need to get into this phone.
00:30:33.200 Uh,
00:30:33.700 they said,
00:30:34.220 we don't have it.
00:30:34.860 The police don't have the police got into court and said,
00:30:37.560 I swear to God,
00:30:38.560 I gave the phone to the complainant's father and I'm the guy who gave it.
00:30:42.140 And his father looks like this.
00:30:43.140 And this is what he was wearing that day.
00:30:44.480 And the plain complainant's father got up and says,
00:30:46.160 I have no memory of this.
00:30:47.280 And I'm going,
00:30:47.980 so they took the phone and you know,
00:30:49.960 who knows?
00:30:50.420 And then that's when they were said,
00:30:51.840 you need to be aware of,
00:30:53.580 of the effects of perjury and tampering with evidence.
00:30:56.320 And that's when they said we're pleading the fifth.
00:30:58.860 So it's a great,
00:31:00.600 there's,
00:31:00.760 there's some more twists and turns in a proper Hollywood movie.
00:31:03.540 We would love to do it.
00:31:05.100 And when someone says to me,
00:31:06.400 it's too soon,
00:31:07.000 that means it should be done right now.
00:31:08.900 Well,
00:31:09.040 you might even be able to get Kevin Spacey to play himself at this point.
00:31:13.200 Wouldn't that be the best part of stunt casting?
00:31:15.680 Actually the best bit would be to get Kevin Spacey to play one of his
00:31:18.140 complainants.
00:31:19.440 You know?
00:31:19.960 Yeah.
00:31:20.400 Well,
00:31:20.580 apparently he checks the email sent to his website.
00:31:23.260 So you should send,
00:31:24.540 send your email along there.
00:31:26.000 And I swear to God,
00:31:29.080 the guy literally,
00:31:30.220 there's a thing called Kevin Spacey.com.
00:31:32.180 And the guy went on to Kevin Spacey and there's a button contact us.
00:31:35.120 And he wrote it and it got to Kevin Spacey.
00:31:37.620 So just a word to everyone out there,
00:31:39.720 go to Kevin Spacey.
00:31:40.500 If you want to send a message to Kevin Spacey,
00:31:42.720 go to Kevin Spacey.com.
00:31:43.980 He reads them all.
00:31:44.900 Yeah.
00:31:45.040 And tell him to reach out to Phelan McAleer whenever he puts together what I
00:31:49.340 hope we can get cooking here.
00:31:50.960 Well,
00:31:51.220 listen,
00:31:51.560 it was a tremendous project as could be expected.
00:31:54.440 The trial is over,
00:31:55.160 but you can listen to the podcast narrated by Phelan's lovely wife,
00:31:58.940 Anne McElhenney at Kevin Spacey podcast.com.
00:32:02.580 And you should also look up the Gosnell movie,
00:32:05.560 which I know we have a lot of members of the program.
00:32:07.480 Show Life community who watch and listen to this show,
00:32:10.020 a tremendous,
00:32:11.020 tremendous film if you haven't already seen it again,
00:32:13.280 very much bringing a real life event and series of events that are put on
00:32:18.240 the screen in a way that is both respectful and entertaining.
00:32:21.800 So Phelan McAleer,
00:32:23.140 always a pleasure to talk to you.
00:32:24.280 Thanks for coming on today.
00:32:25.560 Thank you,
00:32:25.900 Andrew.
00:32:26.420 Always a pleasure to come on your show as well.
00:32:28.080 Thank you.
00:32:28.820 That was Phelan McAleer,
00:32:30.840 half of the powerhouse duo that is Phelan McAleer and Anne McElhenney.
00:32:35.160 As I mentioned,
00:32:35.880 you can check out that podcast at Kevin Spacey podcast.com.
00:32:40.280 That's it for me.
00:32:41.200 We will be back on Tuesday with more of Canada's most irreverent talk show here
00:32:45.820 on true North.
00:32:46.440 Hope you have a wonderful weekend.
00:32:48.200 Thank you.
00:32:48.640 God bless.
00:32:49.220 And good day to you all.
00:32:50.400 Thanks for listening to the Andrew Lawton show.
00:32:52.740 Support the program by donating to true North at www.tnc.news.
00:32:57.880 экран.
00:33:01.480 2a.
00:33:02.320 Bye.
00:33:03.700 We'll see you next time.
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00:33:24.060 Bye.
00:33:25.100 Yeah.
00:33:26.280 Bye.