Juno News - August 04, 2023


How Kevin Spacey cleared his name (feat. Phelim McAleer)


Episode Stats


Length

33 minutes

Words per minute

183.51239

Word count

6,138

Sentence count

436

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

16

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Actor Kevin Spacey was the poster boy for the Me Too movement of the early 2000s, when he was accused of sexual assault and sexual harassment by a number of women. He was acquitted and cleared in 2017, but there are still many questions about how justice was meted out.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:05.620 This is The Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:10.560 Hello and welcome to you all.
00:00:12.580 This is another edition of The Andrew Lawton Show here on True North, Friday, August 4th.
00:00:17.900 And as is usually the tradition on our Friday show,
00:00:20.980 we try to break out of the usual format and not dwell simply on the news of the day
00:00:25.380 and talk about some of the bigger picture things that have been happening.
00:00:28.900 And for this one, we actually have to go back to almost a decade when the Me Too movement,
00:00:35.880 the hashtag Me Too movement emerged and became one of the most powerful cultural forces
00:00:41.760 that I have ever seen in the sense that it took down people who were titans of their fields,
00:00:48.120 people who were on the top of the world and were taken down in many cases in a long overdue way,
00:00:54.480 people that had been getting away with absolutely horrible things over time.
00:00:57.880 But as with anything else, we also saw a little bit of mission creep.
00:01:02.520 And the line between someone who was, say, a date rapist
00:01:06.700 and someone who simply had an awkward encounter on a date got blurrier and blurrier.
00:01:13.160 And we saw in the Me Too movement people who were casualties of this cultural tidal wave
00:01:19.100 that really were not villains.
00:01:20.680 And as a result, we have still, I think, a lot of questions that have been left unanswered
00:01:25.160 about which justice was correctly meted out and which justice was not.
00:01:31.060 Well, one of the biggest names that was taken down in the Me Too era was Kevin Spacey,
00:01:35.940 an actor who, at the time, the allegations against him were made.
00:01:39.820 And there were many of them.
00:01:40.880 He was really on the top.
00:01:42.920 He was starring in that Netflix movie or Netflix series, House of Cards,
00:01:46.560 which for a time was actually quite watchable.
00:01:49.360 It was decliningly so in the recent years.
00:01:52.400 But then we saw Kevin Spacey really just vanish.
00:01:55.780 I mean, one of the most chilling things that happened
00:01:57.620 was he was literally recast and replaced in a movie that had already been filmed.
00:02:03.560 Now, Christopher Blummer did a bang-up job in that,
00:02:06.240 but it doesn't exactly change that this guy was the poster boy for cancellation in that time.
00:02:12.540 Now, was it justified or was it not?
00:02:14.720 Well, as of just a couple of weeks ago,
00:02:17.440 he has now been exonerated in his second country,
00:02:20.900 cleared of all charges in the United Kingdom
00:02:23.740 in a trial that was covered quite extensively by a number of media outlets,
00:02:27.960 but none more than by the husband-wife duo Phelan McAleer and Anne McElhenney,
00:02:33.660 which, between the two of them, have a tremendous knack
00:02:36.640 for taking judicial proceedings and bringing them to life.
00:02:40.420 They ran a phenomenal podcast called Kevin Spacey Trial Unfiltered.
00:02:45.400 You can catch all the episodes at kevinspaceypodcast.com.
00:02:49.520 Phelan McAleer joins me now.
00:02:51.380 Phelan, good to talk to you.
00:02:52.260 Thanks for coming on today.
00:02:53.680 Thanks for having me on, Andrew.
00:02:54.880 Always a pleasure.
00:02:56.340 So, I mean, you and I have spoken in the past,
00:02:58.600 and you have done a tremendous job in so many different avenues
00:03:02.260 of bringing these court cases and proceedings to life here.
00:03:06.320 Why was this one that you wanted to get your hands on?
00:03:12.120 Good question.
00:03:13.260 Actually, I read about, we focused a lot on his previous trial in New York,
00:03:19.940 and I read about it in an obscure legal journal
00:03:22.740 where the journalist interviewed the lawyers,
00:03:26.500 and it was lawyers talking about it, not journalists funny.
00:03:30.920 And the guy wasn't a proper journalist,
00:03:32.880 and, you know, so therefore he wasn't polluted.
00:03:35.640 Therefore, he didn't have to put a spin on it.
00:03:37.960 And I was looking at it, I'm going, no, that couldn't be true.
00:03:40.300 That couldn't be true.
00:03:41.160 No, that couldn't be true.
00:03:42.740 I mean, this case went to trial,
00:03:44.560 and the more I read it, I realized this is mob justice.
00:03:48.360 This is the, and it's also the politicization of justice.
00:03:51.360 This is justice beholden to a political movement
00:03:55.840 and prosecuting and persecuting people for political reasons,
00:03:59.880 not for judicial reasons.
00:04:01.660 And, you know, as I say, they started with Spacey.
00:04:03.860 They're coming for you.
00:04:05.480 They're coming for someone you love, or they're coming for you next.
00:04:08.240 And, you know, this is part of the,
00:04:10.340 you can almost draw a line from Spacey to Trump
00:04:12.940 about how we've allowed justice to become more and more politicized 0.58
00:04:16.660 and more and more ludicrous.
00:04:17.920 And the media don't seem to care because it's coming for their enemies.
00:04:23.480 The Kevin Spacey allegations, I mean, they go back now so long,
00:04:27.180 people can go back and read them all for themselves.
00:04:29.300 But we had a range there.
00:04:30.740 I mean, there were some very serious ones from the actor, Anthony Rapp.
00:04:34.540 There were allegations of groping, of just in general creepy conduct.
00:04:38.580 And as I was saying in my preamble there,
00:04:40.840 there's a range of things that all tend to be viewed in the same way here.
00:04:45.380 And, you know, the one thing when I look at this,
00:04:47.900 that as far as Me Too casualties go,
00:04:51.880 there were people that did things that were wrong,
00:04:55.100 but weren't necessarily illegal.
00:04:57.120 And people that I don't actually think did anything wrong at all.
00:05:00.940 Which camp would you put Kevin Spacey in?
00:05:03.540 Is this a guy that, you know, the stuff he did was bad,
00:05:06.840 but didn't cross an illegal threshold?
00:05:08.940 Or do you think he was actually dealt an unfair hand from the get-go
00:05:12.560 and wasn't even really guilty of what he was being accused of?
00:05:15.380 He was completely not guilty of anything he was accused of.
00:05:19.880 This was more, this wasn't, as you say, mission creep.
00:05:24.800 This was false allegations.
00:05:27.300 And that's a big thing to say, right?
00:05:29.720 But nobody knows this case better than I do,
00:05:31.940 except I would suspect Kevin Spacey.
00:05:34.680 And, you know, I can quite clearly say,
00:05:37.380 and by the way, it's not me speaking.
00:05:38.900 The jury agreed with me.
00:05:39.820 The Anthony Rapp case, you know, BuzzFeed News,
00:05:43.120 just after they'd published the Steele dossier, by the way,
00:05:45.600 BuzzFeed News ran with this story with Kevin Spacey.
00:05:48.480 He was cancelled.
00:05:49.360 Anthony Rapp sued him four years later for $40 million.
00:05:55.360 Two weeks' evidence in a Manhattan courtroom
00:05:58.480 with a liberal Manhattan jury.
00:06:00.340 They took 45 minutes to exonerate him.
00:06:04.140 You know, and I don't know if you've ever served in a jury.
00:06:06.720 It takes 15 minutes to order the lunch,
00:06:09.000 15 minutes to nominate a foreman,
00:06:11.560 and then they decide, oh, what are we going to do with this?
00:06:14.500 They literally all went not guilty and let's go home.
00:06:17.180 That is how strong the evidence wasn't in the Anthony Rapp case.
00:06:23.180 Similarly in London, similarly in London,
00:06:25.860 I mean, there was a couple of the charges,
00:06:28.980 and I was thinking, you know, not only are they probably false,
00:06:32.440 but even if they were true, they shouldn't be in a court of law.
00:06:35.880 One of the things I found interesting,
00:06:37.780 and I didn't see this reported anywhere but in your coverage,
00:06:40.340 is that Kevin Spacey had, for whatever reason,
00:06:42.820 this obsessive hoarding of documents and records
00:06:47.480 to the point where he was able to produce like a cell phone
00:06:51.220 that he used 20 years ago in England,
00:06:53.600 which was used in some ways to exonerate him.
00:06:57.200 And often, I mean, that's, in a case that's a he said, he said case
00:07:01.260 or a he said, she said case, whichever it is,
00:07:03.480 no one has any evidence,
00:07:05.060 but he actually had the receipts, as the expression says.
00:07:08.980 Well, he literally had the receipts.
00:07:11.700 I mean, the statute of limitations are there for a reason.
00:07:14.940 And very interesting, they changed the statute of limitations in New York
00:07:18.160 so Anthony Rapp could sue Kevin Spacey.
00:07:21.480 You know, and then they used that to go after Trump.
00:07:24.020 E. Jean Carroll used that to go after Trump.
00:07:26.080 Classic example of, you know,
00:07:28.120 oh, let's change the law so that child abuse victims can get justice, 0.98
00:07:31.640 and then we go after our enemies using this new law.
00:07:35.740 Kevin Spacey, you know,
00:07:38.140 who can defend themselves against 35-year-old allegations from 1986
00:07:42.420 where it's alleged this happened and you were there
00:07:45.340 at this particular moment in time when that happened.
00:07:48.160 Kevin Spacey is one of the few people 0.72
00:07:49.640 in a ugly, disgusting, appalling storage warehouse. 0.95
00:07:55.040 Now, I'm not a storage locker, I'm a storage warehouse.
00:07:57.480 Kevin Spacey, and I've seen the photographs of it,
00:07:59.180 hundreds of cardboard boxes,
00:08:02.160 not even the nice plastic ones you get and you buy in Target or whatever.
00:08:06.720 These are just boxes that he picked up over the years.
00:08:09.360 Every document, every receipt, every bill, every invoice,
00:08:12.960 every letter, even the envelopes of the letter.
00:08:15.440 So Kevin Spacey in New York was able to prove,
00:08:19.460 A. Anthony Rapp said he was at a party,
00:08:23.360 he retreated to a bedroom to watch TV.
00:08:25.200 Spacey, after the party, came, stood in the bedroom door,
00:08:28.340 attacked him, he wriggled out.
00:08:30.360 Spacey was able to prove he lived in a studio apartment.
00:08:33.460 There was no bedroom.
00:08:34.600 There could be no bedroom for Anthony Rapp to retreat to.
00:08:37.360 There could be no bedroom door for Kevin Spacey
00:08:39.780 to stand in menacingly.
00:08:41.820 There could be no wriggling past the doorway.
00:08:44.640 So then, fast forward to the London case,
00:08:47.560 this guy said,
00:08:49.280 I was sexually assaulted.
00:08:50.600 And it was a serious sexual assault.
00:08:52.720 Ten years was the sentence.
00:08:55.800 At 4.30 in the morning, I woke up and this was happening.
00:08:59.300 Kevin Spacey said,
00:09:00.120 no, we had a consensual encounter.
00:09:02.920 He freaked out afterwards at 11.30 at night,
00:09:07.020 left in a hurry.
00:09:07.860 I phoned him, worried about him.
00:09:09.900 We had a conversation, he assured me.
00:09:11.460 And we communicated after that for several months.
00:09:13.960 So there's two different versions of events.
00:09:16.260 Kevin Spacey at the bottom.
00:09:17.900 And the guy says,
00:09:18.480 I can't remember my phone number from 2003.
00:09:21.500 So I can't give you the bills.
00:09:23.000 I can't give you anything.
00:09:24.160 Kevin Spacey at the bottom of one of these boxes
00:09:26.280 found this phone,
00:09:27.840 this British phone from 2003.
00:09:30.060 He also managed to get his phone bills from 2003.
00:09:33.820 And that showed a phone call between him
00:09:36.560 and this guy at 11.30 that lasted one minute.
00:09:40.140 The, as they call it, the bus stop phone call.
00:09:42.520 The guy was at the bus stop getting a bus going home
00:09:44.780 and Spacey phoned him to make sure he was okay.
00:09:47.340 There was no phone call between him,
00:09:49.380 between the two of them at 11.30.
00:09:51.340 There was nothing.
00:09:52.280 It got to the stage where the prosecution,
00:09:54.100 I kid you not,
00:09:55.320 the prosecution said,
00:09:56.760 the way this phone call can be explained
00:09:58.820 was that it was an accidental dial by Spacey.
00:10:02.800 Right?
00:10:04.380 The, the, the,
00:10:05.580 the complainant said,
00:10:08.360 asked to explain all the text messages
00:10:10.540 between him and Spacey in the,
00:10:12.300 afterwards said,
00:10:13.800 I think that when Spacey assaulted me,
00:10:16.340 he installed malware on my phone
00:10:18.580 to make it look like we would be texting,
00:10:21.120 uh, in the future.
00:10:22.820 So not only is Kevin Spacey,
00:10:24.140 this was in 2003,
00:10:25.780 2003, Kevin Spacey,
00:10:27.400 who knew Oscar winning actor,
00:10:29.380 super predator and tech nerd,
00:10:32.000 uh,
00:10:32.280 who can install malware on a 2003 phone
00:10:35.280 in the,
00:10:36.180 in the obvious event that in 20,
00:10:38.840 20 years time,
00:10:39.800 he's going to be accused of sexually assaulting him
00:10:42.320 and needs an alibi.
00:10:43.920 You know, 0.91
00:10:44.260 this is the kind of nonsense
00:10:45.560 that the jury had to endure in,
00:10:48.260 uh,
00:10:48.660 but by the way,
00:10:49.560 very little of this was printed
00:10:50.680 in the mainstream media.
00:10:51.700 They printed the allegations,
00:10:53.300 the Me Too allegations,
00:10:54.460 and their pens and laptops went silent,
00:10:56.860 uh,
00:10:57.500 during the,
00:10:58.300 during the ludicrous, 0.88
00:11:00.800 ludicrous, 0.75
00:11:01.680 uh,
00:11:03.040 uh,
00:11:03.580 uh,
00:11:04.080 uh,
00:11:05.080 uh,
00:11:05.260 evidence came out for the defense.
00:11:07.120 I mean,
00:11:07.580 the,
00:11:07.680 the Spacey's barrister was just fantastic.
00:11:10.300 I mean,
00:11:10.540 I can't remember his name,
00:11:11.680 but we called him Sir Buffton,
00:11:13.680 Tufton,
00:11:14.680 QFC,
00:11:15.500 FC,
00:11:16.140 BBC,
00:11:16.940 you know,
00:11:17.220 RSPCA,
00:11:18.100 KC.
00:11:18.560 He was just one of these classic English barristers,
00:11:20.860 probably about 110,
00:11:22.560 you know,
00:11:23.100 and,
00:11:23.620 uh,
00:11:23.780 there was one incident where,
00:11:25.880 you know,
00:11:26.260 he said,
00:11:27.000 now in complainant number three,
00:11:28.500 I want you all to remember as the jury to remember four features,
00:11:32.820 four features.
00:11:33.720 And we're all going for features,
00:11:35.020 you know,
00:11:35.240 truth,
00:11:35.620 justice,
00:11:35.960 whatever,
00:11:36.340 you know,
00:11:36.600 he goes,
00:11:37.080 four features are,
00:11:38.480 and in order of importance,
00:11:39.920 Guinness,
00:11:40.800 tequila,
00:11:41.620 Jägermeister,
00:11:42.460 and wine.
00:11:43.320 You know,
00:11:43.780 because they'd been on an all day drinking session and the guy admitted to having six or seven Guinness,
00:11:49.440 right?
00:11:49.600 And I,
00:11:49.920 and I,
00:11:50.440 it's a long time since I had that drink,
00:11:52.660 but back when I did,
00:11:53.920 I know when I said I had six or seven Guinness,
00:11:55.780 that means I had nine or 10 Guinness,
00:11:57.480 you know?
00:11:57.640 So he was completely drunk.
00:11:59.520 And then he went home to Spacey's and drank some weed and they had,
00:12:02.780 they had a little kiss.
00:12:05.080 And it's basically when he said,
00:12:07.260 I'm not gay Spacey backed off.
00:12:08.820 And then that was the charge.
00:12:10.820 And it's like,
00:12:11.640 it shouldn't have been brought to court anyway,
00:12:13.240 but,
00:12:14.080 uh,
00:12:14.500 the evidence then showed that,
00:12:16.520 that this didn't,
00:12:17.500 I mean, 0.95
00:12:17.800 it was ludicrous.
00:12:19.840 Some of the charges,
00:12:20.620 um,
00:12:21.660 and the jury.
00:12:23.240 So,
00:12:23.400 I mean,
00:12:23.620 that right there that you bring up is something we saw in other cases,
00:12:27.600 where,
00:12:28.060 uh,
00:12:28.760 you know,
00:12:29.020 men who thought that a date was going one way and,
00:12:32.400 you know,
00:12:32.520 tried to make a pass and were rebuffed and stopped it,
00:12:35.780 were being accused of having committed some heinous sex crime.
00:12:40.420 And I,
00:12:41.060 I think in some cases that was when even some of the people that were all in on the
00:12:45.440 Me Too movement,
00:12:46.180 not all,
00:12:46.820 some started to back up and say,
00:12:48.280 okay,
00:12:48.880 maybe we've pushed this too far.
00:12:50.380 I remember one of them that came up was this comedian in the U S Aziz Ansari,
00:12:53.880 who,
00:12:54.140 uh,
00:12:54.580 was basically accused of,
00:12:56.040 of just having an awkward date and,
00:12:57.760 and was the subject of an attempt to,
00:13:00.240 uh,
00:13:00.780 dismantle his career.
00:13:02.240 But the fact that that even got to trial,
00:13:04.900 even after we've had some time to look back and say,
00:13:08.140 okay,
00:13:08.400 maybe we can lower the temperature on this.
00:13:10.660 I mean,
00:13:10.800 why was that charge ever made in the first place?
00:13:13.420 I think they just,
00:13:14.540 they,
00:13:14.780 they wanted,
00:13:15.340 they knew the quality was bad.
00:13:17.040 So they were going for the quantity and you get this with some cases.
00:13:20.060 Sometimes juries will say no smoke without fire.
00:13:22.920 We'll,
00:13:23.440 we'll give,
00:13:24.260 we'll,
00:13:24.440 we'll clear him on all of these,
00:13:26.180 but convict them on that.
00:13:27.640 And they were hoping for that.
00:13:28.760 I mean, 0.94
00:13:29.280 it was ludicrous. 0.60
00:13:30.080 So Spacey, 0.62
00:13:30.920 I think,
00:13:31.900 I can't,
00:13:32.400 I think agrees.
00:13:33.720 Yeah.
00:13:33.860 He,
00:13:34.160 the,
00:13:34.380 the guy let Spacey's dog out of a room.
00:13:36.640 It's a long story.
00:13:37.600 And the guy passes,
00:13:38.760 I'm really sorry.
00:13:39.440 Spacey says,
00:13:39.900 Oh,
00:13:40.020 no problem.
00:13:40.400 Give me a hug.
00:13:40.960 After six,
00:13:42.100 Guinness,
00:13:42.480 three,
00:13:42.760 Jägermeister,
00:13:43.360 two,
00:13:44.940 two tequila,
00:13:46.060 and several glasses of wine and a joint.
00:13:48.400 They hugged,
00:13:49.040 right?
00:13:49.560 As Casey,
00:13:50.240 Spacey says,
00:13:50.940 and it's great,
00:13:51.680 kissed him twice on the neck in the hug.
00:13:54.600 And now there's a dispute whether Spacey also touched them.
00:13:58.240 I believe in the guy says the touch was two out of 10.
00:14:00.520 Right.
00:14:01.020 Um,
00:14:01.500 and the guy said,
00:14:02.640 I don't bat for that team.
00:14:04.080 He says,
00:14:04.500 Spacey pulled back with a look of panic in his eyes,
00:14:06.960 left immediately and went to another room and closed the door.
00:14:10.940 The classic bad pass.
00:14:13.840 Right.
00:14:14.240 And it's like,
00:14:16.360 what is this doing in a court of law?
00:14:19.640 You know,
00:14:20.080 the guy,
00:14:20.560 it was a running joke between him and his mates,
00:14:22.580 right?
00:14:23.480 Uh,
00:14:23.840 for years afterwards until he's,
00:14:25.680 he said,
00:14:26.420 and then,
00:14:26.840 I mean,
00:14:27.140 this guy,
00:14:27.680 I mean,
00:14:28.320 so,
00:14:28.960 uh,
00:14:29.320 then this is the,
00:14:30.680 the Jägermeister guy.
00:14:31.860 He said,
00:14:33.380 Sir Bufton Tufton,
00:14:34.580 the QC or KC said to him,
00:14:36.660 have you ever corresponded with Mr.
00:14:38.380 Spacey?
00:14:38.700 I don't recall.
00:14:39.480 I was going,
00:14:39.720 that's a really funny answer.
00:14:40.740 I don't recall.
00:14:41.520 Have you ever written to him through his website?
00:14:42.880 I don't recall.
00:14:43.900 Okay.
00:14:44.740 So it turns out at 2 PM in the afternoon,
00:14:47.520 not 3 PM,
00:14:48.700 3 AM after a feed of drink,
00:14:50.340 2 PM in the afternoon,
00:14:51.220 he wrote to Kevin Spacey.com and said,
00:14:53.840 I'm willing to withdraw from court kiss in return for a settlement.
00:14:59.300 Right.
00:14:59.700 And it's like,
00:15:01.200 and we're hearing from this guy.
00:15:02.520 This is the guy who should be charged with extortion rather than,
00:15:06.760 uh,
00:15:07.100 having Kevin Spacey in a,
00:15:08.880 in a glass dock in,
00:15:10.600 in the horrible Southwark crown court,
00:15:13.020 uh,
00:15:14.160 facing,
00:15:14.680 you know,
00:15:15.180 facing,
00:15:15.800 uh,
00:15:16.420 years in prison.
00:15:17.280 So the challenge here is that as you and,
00:15:21.800 and Anne have noted,
00:15:22.880 Kevin Spacey has been exonerated in two countries and two courts.
00:15:26.600 He has yet to have had any allegation against Tim stick,
00:15:30.260 but I don't believe there will be any reversal of the career damage and the reputational damage.
00:15:37.560 I mean,
00:15:38.000 I don't think Netflix is going to be calling him up and saying,
00:15:40.620 I'm so sorry.
00:15:41.660 We'd like to include you in the house of cards reboot.
00:15:43.880 I don't believe that,
00:15:44.820 uh,
00:15:45.360 you know,
00:15:45.560 all the money in the world part two is going to,
00:15:47.840 you know,
00:15:48.160 replace Christopher Plummer with Kevin Spacey.
00:15:50.200 So is there a bittersweet aspect to this where,
00:15:53.540 you know,
00:15:53.820 yes,
00:15:54.080 you have justice,
00:15:54.860 but not really.
00:15:57.620 I think it's just a bitter,
00:15:59.220 bitter aspect to it.
00:16:00.560 I mean,
00:16:00.800 it's,
00:16:01.120 it's,
00:16:01.360 it's terrible.
00:16:01.980 And,
00:16:02.380 you know,
00:16:02.640 this is when you,
00:16:03.200 when you hear about all these producers and all these studios complain about their finances and actors,
00:16:09.620 you know,
00:16:10.500 look,
00:16:10.940 who wouldn't want to see a show with Kevin Spacey in it now,
00:16:18.300 you know,
00:16:18.680 maybe a show about a man wrongly accused of something,
00:16:21.800 you know,
00:16:22.360 uh,
00:16:22.800 maybe,
00:16:23.360 you know,
00:16:23.740 but they,
00:16:25.540 they don't have that imagination.
00:16:26.960 They don't have the courage.
00:16:28.000 I mean,
00:16:28.480 when you think about it,
00:16:29.340 cutting Spacey out of all the money in the world,
00:16:31.280 it was Stalin-esque.
00:16:32.300 That's what Stalin used to do against his enemies,
00:16:34.820 you know,
00:16:35.300 replace them from the photographs or remove them before Photoshop was a thing.
00:16:39.320 He was,
00:16:39.520 he was able to do that.
00:16:41.380 So,
00:16:42.100 um,
00:16:42.640 yeah,
00:16:43.120 I don't think,
00:16:44.380 no,
00:16:44.620 I don't,
00:16:44.960 I mean,
00:16:45.640 I,
00:16:46.440 I just find it hard to believe now that he will regain his career,
00:16:50.880 will,
00:16:51.200 will regain his place in,
00:16:54.640 in society.
00:16:55.520 I,
00:16:55.620 I just can't,
00:16:56.520 I just can't see it.
00:16:58.340 No.
00:16:58.400 And,
00:16:58.660 and,
00:16:58.900 and,
00:16:58.940 uh,
00:17:00.840 it's,
00:17:01.200 and why not?
00:17:03.280 I mean,
00:17:03.620 just to correct you there,
00:17:04.920 Andrew,
00:17:05.240 he's been exonerated in three courts in two continents.
00:17:08.140 I mean,
00:17:08.580 there was the New York one,
00:17:09.780 which took 45 minutes.
00:17:10.780 I mean,
00:17:11.180 the other one in Nantucket,
00:17:12.640 which we devote an episode to in our podcast.
00:17:15.600 Yes.
00:17:15.880 I mean,
00:17:16.500 when you have the complainant pleading the fifth,
00:17:21.160 because he says,
00:17:22.500 because the judges warned him,
00:17:23.720 he could be charged with tampering with evidence.
00:17:26.380 Right.
00:17:27.820 You know,
00:17:28.320 when you have the complainant pleading the fifth,
00:17:30.160 you know,
00:17:30.480 the charges are rough.
00:17:31.620 The only person likely facing criminal charges after the Nantucket case was the complainant and his mother.
00:17:39.760 Right.
00:17:40.420 So exonerated.
00:17:41.840 I mean,
00:17:42.040 that's,
00:17:42.460 you know,
00:17:42.860 that's a,
00:17:44.300 that's one step beyond exonerated.
00:17:46.120 Imagine the jury says you're not guilty.
00:17:47.900 They didn't even get to court.
00:17:48.820 The judge says you're not guilty.
00:17:49.820 The prosecutor says you're not guilty.
00:17:51.100 And we were thinking about charging the complainant with tampering with evidence.
00:17:55.740 So you couldn't ask for a more exonerating exoneration,
00:18:01.280 if that's the right phrase,
00:18:03.020 but no,
00:18:03.800 it's a bitter,
00:18:04.580 bitter for Kevin Spacey,
00:18:07.100 because I think he's not going to get anything back.
00:18:09.480 The,
00:18:09.720 the one thing that is so difficult for anyone that's ever been canceled,
00:18:13.120 they all say something very similar to this is when they get their friends who believe that all the stuff is nonsense,
00:18:20.540 but want nothing to do with them because they're worried about their reputation.
00:18:23.840 And this is something that we see anytime someone has been canceled,
00:18:27.280 the,
00:18:27.440 the quiet allies,
00:18:28.700 the quiet supporters,
00:18:29.700 it was actually quite pleasing and quite moving to see Elton John,
00:18:34.520 who has a lot to lose in his career.
00:18:37.100 If he were to get canceled and tarnished,
00:18:40.380 actually take a stand as a defense witness for Kevin Spacey.
00:18:45.580 And I read a piece that you and Anne wrote in Spiked,
00:18:48.600 and that actually carries a huge amount of weight in the United Kingdom.
00:18:52.740 When you've got Sir Elton John on your side,
00:18:55.260 Sir Elton John.
00:18:56.480 I mean,
00:18:56.720 so I was sitting there in the courtroom and the background was this guy was saying,
00:19:01.840 oh,
00:19:02.120 I was a driver for Elton John and did security for him.
00:19:05.100 And the barrister said,
00:19:05.860 I put it to you.
00:19:06.640 Sir Buffton Tufton said,
00:19:08.060 I,
00:19:08.280 Casey,
00:19:08.680 I put it to you that you did not ever drive.
00:19:11.100 And I thought,
00:19:12.080 so I went out of the courtroom and I literally phoned a friend of mine who's a barrister.
00:19:15.400 And I said,
00:19:15.920 when he said that,
00:19:16.940 does that mean Elton John's going to give evidence?
00:19:19.460 And,
00:19:19.700 and he goes,
00:19:21.140 he says,
00:19:21.480 they wouldn't have said it if they couldn't prove it.
00:19:23.320 He says,
00:19:23.640 if I was the prosecutor there,
00:19:24.800 I would do everything I could to stop Elton John setting foot in that courtroom.
00:19:30.440 If Elton John says you are innocent,
00:19:33.680 it's like the queen mother saying you're innocent,
00:19:35.520 right?
00:19:35.820 If he rides to your defense and,
00:19:38.260 you know,
00:19:39.620 and,
00:19:41.100 and so,
00:19:42.120 but,
00:19:42.340 and that's what happened there.
00:19:43.220 He did video link in and,
00:19:44.700 and funny thing is he didn't,
00:19:48.460 his evidence was quite technical.
00:19:50.460 Actually,
00:19:50.780 he didn't say Kevin Spacey is innocent.
00:19:52.880 He,
00:19:52.980 but he,
00:19:53.240 he stood up and he,
00:19:54.440 he took the time out of his schedule.
00:19:56.300 And Elton John has this national treasure status in the UK,
00:20:00.840 which is a lot to lose.
00:20:02.700 International.
00:20:03.340 Yeah,
00:20:03.480 international.
00:20:04.200 So,
00:20:04.780 so that's a lot to lose.
00:20:08.280 Like that's a,
00:20:08.980 that takes tremendous courage because you're actually risking,
00:20:11.680 you know,
00:20:13.980 beatification that you've had to stand up for this guy who,
00:20:19.220 by the way,
00:20:19.740 it wouldn't matter if you didn't stand up for him.
00:20:22.060 No one,
00:20:22.500 no one,
00:20:23.140 but,
00:20:23.480 but obviously he had some kind of sense of,
00:20:26.300 of duty to tell the truth.
00:20:28.180 And he,
00:20:29.800 his truth,
00:20:30.700 it wasn't,
00:20:31.280 he didn't stand up and say Kevin Spacey.
00:20:33.180 It was funny.
00:20:33.720 His evidence was very technical.
00:20:35.540 Kevin Spacey did not come to my house on that day.
00:20:38.280 He was not at this party.
00:20:39.860 We have no evidence of that.
00:20:41.080 This guy never drove for me.
00:20:43.260 He,
00:20:43.460 he never played.
00:20:44.580 It was security for me.
00:20:45.720 Now it meant that the biggest assault,
00:20:49.040 it's one of the biggest assaults.
00:20:50.120 Spacey was charged with,
00:20:51.720 could not physically have happened.
00:20:53.240 That's what his evidence said there.
00:20:54.540 And he also,
00:20:55.100 it helped characterize the complainant as a,
00:20:57.580 an exaggerator or fantasist,
00:20:59.500 but it was very factual and very narrow.
00:21:02.400 So,
00:21:03.340 yeah,
00:21:04.100 I mean,
00:21:04.760 I happen to know,
00:21:07.100 I,
00:21:07.380 I've never spoken to Kevin Spacey,
00:21:09.580 uh,
00:21:10.400 uh,
00:21:10.700 but I've spoken to people around him,
00:21:12.860 not,
00:21:13.520 you know,
00:21:13.660 and I asked about,
00:21:15.100 was there much,
00:21:16.340 was there anyone who'd like to come on the podcast,
00:21:18.460 any of his friends or anything like that?
00:21:20.480 And the,
00:21:21.180 the answer was all of his friends have deserted him.
00:21:24.460 So he did lose everything in that sense.
00:21:27.980 And you weren't even getting the sense that there were people that were still around him,
00:21:32.460 but were kind of keeping quiet.
00:21:33.700 You were hearing that they all bolted.
00:21:36.100 Yes.
00:21:36.880 Yes.
00:21:37.520 And he said in court that he's running out of money too.
00:21:42.340 Um,
00:21:43.020 no,
00:21:43.240 and I assume you would think he hasn't,
00:21:45.060 but I assume he wouldn't lie about something like that.
00:21:47.260 Cause it's provable.
00:21:48.260 Yeah.
00:21:48.660 He's running out of money.
00:21:49.520 And,
00:21:49.920 and,
00:21:50.180 and the fee,
00:21:50.840 no,
00:21:51.000 it's secondhand.
00:21:51.740 It's not firsthand information.
00:21:53.180 It could even be third hand that,
00:21:55.160 that,
00:21:55.540 that the friends have deserted him.
00:21:57.620 Mm-hmm.
00:21:58.760 But,
00:21:59.200 but even on the money,
00:22:00.000 I mean,
00:22:00.280 you,
00:22:00.420 you know,
00:22:01.080 certainly in the United States,
00:22:02.740 the cost of defending yourself is astronomical in,
00:22:06.580 in the United Kingdom.
00:22:07.400 I mean,
00:22:07.700 this was a week's long trial,
00:22:09.500 uh,
00:22:10.220 and,
00:22:10.520 and no matter how shrewd you are an investor and how many millions you've made,
00:22:13.940 it can go away overnight,
00:22:15.200 especially if you're talking about a guy that hasn't really been cast in anything in now,
00:22:19.320 nine years.
00:22:20.580 Yeah.
00:22:20.920 Well,
00:22:21.280 the trial in the UK,
00:22:22.620 I think was three to four weeks,
00:22:23.920 right?
00:22:24.520 The trial in the,
00:22:25.580 in the U S Anthony rap was two weeks.
00:22:28.100 The Nantucket one was a week of pre-trial.
00:22:31.560 Um,
00:22:32.660 and you know,
00:22:33.560 I spoke to one of the lawyers,
00:22:35.100 uh,
00:22:35.740 who,
00:22:35.980 who defend one of the lawyers who defended him.
00:22:38.000 And I said,
00:22:38.660 how much work of you?
00:22:39.460 Cause this guy has an encyclopedic knowledge.
00:22:41.680 Now,
00:22:42.760 uh,
00:22:43.280 some ways was worth it.
00:22:44.580 He said thousands of hours.
00:22:46.220 Now,
00:22:46.660 I don't know these guys,
00:22:47.680 what do they get?
00:22:48.120 A thousand dollars an hour,
00:22:49.120 $1,500 an hour.
00:22:50.500 We're talking millions here.
00:22:51.720 We're talking millions.
00:22:52.740 And that's just for one lawyer.
00:22:54.460 Uh,
00:22:55.120 so,
00:22:55.680 and you know,
00:22:57.100 this is all after tax money and apparently Netflix sued him and got a lot of money back
00:23:01.920 off him and all this.
00:23:02.940 And,
00:23:03.500 you know,
00:23:04.400 things could think,
00:23:06.220 as you say that when there's not,
00:23:07.640 you know,
00:23:07.880 Oh,
00:23:08.400 it was a Dickens character said,
00:23:09.860 you know,
00:23:10.220 in,
00:23:10.560 incomings versus outcomings,
00:23:12.100 you know,
00:23:12.400 that's when the trouble starts and,
00:23:14.940 uh,
00:23:15.100 there's no incomings and a lot of outgoings.
00:23:18.560 I know you've spent a lot of time in Hollywood and unfortunately kept your,
00:23:22.980 your sanity and intact throughout that.
00:23:25.220 But I I'm curious,
00:23:26.540 Phelan,
00:23:26.880 what your sense is on kind of the mood there now versus in 2014,
00:23:33.060 because in,
00:23:33.800 in 2014,
00:23:34.500 when the me too wave kept in,
00:23:36.960 I stand by that.
00:23:38.120 There were people that I think very much deserved what they got.
00:23:42.220 And that doesn't mean I thought the process itself was appropriate,
00:23:45.200 but I think the outcome might've been.
00:23:46.980 And I think that right there is the distinction is that a lot of people right now do not care
00:23:51.160 about process.
00:23:52.020 And I'm wondering if you think there's been a bit of regret about that,
00:23:55.700 or have people just sort of closed the book and moved on and said,
00:23:58.640 what happened happened?
00:23:59.360 Well,
00:24:01.460 I think it was me too.
00:24:03.240 It was actually,
00:24:03.840 it was a 2017 or it was 2016.
00:24:06.140 It was a bit later,
00:24:07.140 but I have sensed no regret at all.
00:24:10.380 All I'm getting is people saying,
00:24:13.960 thank God you're doing this. 0.83
00:24:15.060 We knew it was a load of nonsense all along. 0.96
00:24:18.000 Right. 0.73
00:24:19.440 So there's,
00:24:20.760 for those who went full in,
00:24:23.180 all in,
00:24:23.920 no regret.
00:24:24.940 For those who kept quiet,
00:24:27.260 secret,
00:24:27.780 they're secretly glad we're doing this.
00:24:29.680 Right.
00:24:29.900 But I've yet to meet.
00:24:33.280 Now,
00:24:33.580 we do get emails from members of the public who thank us for this,
00:24:37.720 because they,
00:24:38.080 they just bought the story as well.
00:24:40.780 But no,
00:24:41.100 at that upper elite level,
00:24:42.460 there's no regret.
00:24:43.420 You know,
00:24:43.720 look,
00:24:43.980 I,
00:24:44.160 we always said this when we used to cover the environmental movement,
00:24:46.540 they would have a scare every five years.
00:24:49.680 This is going to give us cancer that.
00:24:51.220 And,
00:24:51.460 and it would always be proven wrong,
00:24:53.240 but you know,
00:24:53.640 being an environmentalist means never having to say you're sorry.
00:24:57.560 And I think being an elite Hollywood, 0.98
00:25:01.140 elite Hollywood hypocrite means never having to say you're sorry. 0.98
00:25:05.520 Also, 0.99
00:25:06.680 who's going to call you out on what's,
00:25:08.260 what's the gain,
00:25:09.080 you know,
00:25:10.080 but it's not even,
00:25:11.580 it's not even that self-interested.
00:25:13.360 It's that self-deluded.
00:25:14.580 They don't think there's anything to be sorry for.
00:25:16.460 Until funny enough,
00:25:17.500 until it comes for someone they know,
00:25:19.420 like,
00:25:20.000 and that's really a lot of damage to me too.
00:25:22.340 Movement was when,
00:25:23.040 when they came,
00:25:23.720 it was Cuomo and Cuomo wrote to his friends in Hollywood and said,
00:25:28.220 help.
00:25:29.740 And they helped him.
00:25:30.660 And then the emails came out.
00:25:32.620 I think it was the leadership of the me too.
00:25:34.440 Movement helped him because,
00:25:35.780 Hey,
00:25:36.040 it's Andrew Cuomo.
00:25:36.900 We know he wouldn't do that.
00:25:38.040 And I'm going,
00:25:38.700 well,
00:25:39.100 do you ever think that applying those,
00:25:41.200 that strict rigor of,
00:25:42.620 of,
00:25:43.020 of,
00:25:43.300 of proof and all that,
00:25:44.800 and due process to all the other peoples whose lives you've ruined?
00:25:49.540 Yeah,
00:25:49.980 I know.
00:25:50.300 And,
00:25:50.400 and you're right.
00:25:50.820 And I apologize for mixing up the date for whatever reason.
00:25:53.020 I had 2014 burned into my mind,
00:25:54.920 but it was 2017.
00:25:55.880 So we're,
00:25:56.420 we're talking about six years.
00:25:57.600 So amend anytime.
00:25:58.420 I've mentioned nearly a decade to that,
00:26:01.100 but I think everything else still stands.
00:26:02.920 And your point about Cuomo was a valid one.
00:26:05.140 I mean,
00:26:05.400 the,
00:26:05.540 the way that believe all women,
00:26:07.900 which was the refrain of 2017 evaporated when Tara Reid accused Joe Biden of sexual wrongdoing.
00:26:16.180 And then it was Joe Biden.
00:26:17.600 And I remember there was that one press conference he gave where he had to like explain,
00:26:20.860 no,
00:26:21.060 no,
00:26:21.160 no.
00:26:21.440 I,
00:26:21.580 I said,
00:26:22.140 we should not know we,
00:26:23.580 we shouldn't just be like,
00:26:24.420 he,
00:26:24.560 he couldn't explain how his position had changed when he was the guy being accused of this.
00:26:31.200 And,
00:26:31.380 and,
00:26:31.620 you know,
00:26:31.740 again,
00:26:32.060 Bill Clinton,
00:26:32.580 if the standard applied to Donald Trump was applied to Bill Clinton,
00:26:36.000 the guy would be in prison right now.
00:26:38.580 Yes.
00:26:39.280 Yeah.
00:26:39.700 So,
00:26:40.460 so yeah,
00:26:41.140 there's no,
00:26:43.400 there's no reckoning in Hollywood.
00:26:44.760 There's no sense of embarrassment that,
00:26:47.580 you know,
00:26:47.880 cause the mainstream media haven't covered this,
00:26:49.660 um,
00:26:50.420 you know,
00:26:50.720 and they haven't covered the implications for Kevin Spacey being exonerated in three courts,
00:26:56.780 in two jurisdictions.
00:26:59.480 And I think this is the end of it.
00:27:01.920 And I mean,
00:27:03.940 if you listen to the podcast,
00:27:05.380 if you listen to the Anthony Rapp podcast,
00:27:07.380 it was,
00:27:08.560 it was corrupt journalism colluding with false allegations to get a story.
00:27:13.820 And destroyed that man's life.
00:27:16.380 And there's no,
00:27:17.580 there's no,
00:27:18.100 everyone's Anthony Rapp is now a major international activist slash actor.
00:27:23.380 The journalist went from Buzzfeed.
00:27:25.180 He's now a senior writer in variety.
00:27:27.700 Everyone's done very well out of it.
00:27:29.700 Uh,
00:27:29.940 and a jury took 45 minutes to order lunch,
00:27:33.740 arrange a format and exonerate them.
00:27:35.980 So,
00:27:36.460 uh,
00:27:37.240 no,
00:27:37.700 there's no,
00:27:39.000 no,
00:27:39.500 not much grounds for optimism.
00:27:41.960 Now,
00:27:42.480 I don't want you to give away anything too,
00:27:45.000 too much.
00:27:45.440 If you have plans and look,
00:27:46.620 you already always have plans for something or other,
00:27:48.560 but,
00:27:48.820 uh,
00:27:49.260 do you think this could warrant the,
00:27:51.640 uh,
00:27:52.040 fictionalized treatment or the dramatized treatment that some of your other projects have this trial?
00:27:57.500 It's funny.
00:28:00.060 Uh,
00:28:00.740 a very,
00:28:02.300 very,
00:28:02.560 very prominent Hollywood producer reached out to us,
00:28:06.160 right?
00:28:06.800 Someone had sent him the podcast and we got all excited,
00:28:10.300 right?
00:28:10.660 Because we thought,
00:28:11.220 I mean,
00:28:12.440 if you listen to the podcast,
00:28:13.240 I mean,
00:28:13.400 it's unbelievable.
00:28:14.780 Kevin Spacey was saved by a dream,
00:28:17.520 right?
00:28:18.240 That,
00:28:18.740 you know,
00:28:19.040 so he,
00:28:19.840 he,
00:28:20.200 he couldn't,
00:28:21.380 he didn't know when it happened.
00:28:22.760 He couldn't remember.
00:28:23.640 He was an itinerant actor at the time,
00:28:25.780 1986,
00:28:26.600 moving from sublease to sublease,
00:28:28.480 you know,
00:28:28.920 trying to get the cheapest place to stay in New York.
00:28:32.420 He didn't know where he was staying.
00:28:33.860 He had a dream that he was living in a studio.
00:28:37.200 I kid you not.
00:28:38.260 And it's all in an email.
00:28:39.140 I've got the email that was part of the court documents that he says,
00:28:42.960 I was living in a studio at that time.
00:28:45.060 Oh,
00:28:45.540 that studio.
00:28:46.200 He then went to his boxes and found the floor plan,
00:28:49.060 found the lease,
00:28:50.400 found letters that he had written to his mother about his studio apartment,
00:28:54.500 no bedroom,
00:28:55.260 nothing.
00:28:56.580 Uh,
00:28:57.160 then,
00:28:57.740 oh,
00:28:58.020 then,
00:28:58.400 then secret emails between the journalist and Anthony Rapp emerged where Anthony
00:29:04.940 Rapp got things really,
00:29:06.400 really wrong.
00:29:07.360 And the journalist said,
00:29:08.460 we can't print this cause it's wrong.
00:29:10.180 So what we'll do is we'll disguise what you said or we'll not print it.
00:29:13.620 So the,
00:29:14.240 so the journalist,
00:29:15.100 so they were running interference quite openly for allegations that even they
00:29:19.040 saw weren't necessarily accurate.
00:29:21.160 Yeah.
00:29:22.020 Yeah.
00:29:22.680 Not openly colluding behind it before the story was published.
00:29:25.840 Right.
00:29:26.340 They,
00:29:26.740 they,
00:29:26.840 they,
00:29:27.020 they realized his story was filled with errors and inconsistencies.
00:29:30.040 So they just didn't publish those.
00:29:32.040 Or at one stage,
00:29:33.500 the journalist sent an email saying,
00:29:35.360 we'll keep the story deliberately vague in that respect.
00:29:38.340 So spacey can't refute it.
00:29:40.680 Right.
00:29:41.120 That's an actual email between the journalist and the interviewee.
00:29:45.180 And I mean,
00:29:46.420 it's a great story.
00:29:47.340 And I thought we got all excited,
00:29:48.680 uh,
00:29:49.560 because we thought this guy has spotted that potential wants to option it,
00:29:52.880 whatever.
00:29:53.320 And we,
00:29:54.100 we spoke to him and he said,
00:29:56.660 Oh,
00:29:56.920 he said,
00:29:57.240 beautiful podcast.
00:29:58.860 Loved it.
00:29:59.320 I just,
00:29:59.780 it's an amazing story.
00:30:00.900 I said,
00:30:01.140 is there a movie in it?
00:30:01.980 He said too soon,
00:30:03.200 you know,
00:30:03.480 and I'm going that to me,
00:30:04.940 that means I should do it now.
00:30:07.400 Right.
00:30:08.400 Uh,
00:30:08.720 yeah.
00:30:08.920 You have to wait until no one cares about it enough to be mad to do it.
00:30:11.920 Apparently.
00:30:12.960 Yes.
00:30:13.580 Yeah.
00:30:13.920 And you know,
00:30:14.700 it's now is exactly the time to do this amazing story.
00:30:18.340 It's,
00:30:18.620 it's,
00:30:18.860 it's filled with Hollywood twists and subplots.
00:30:22.860 I mean,
00:30:23.180 the people in Nantucket,
00:30:24.320 the complainant in Nantucket,
00:30:25.620 uh,
00:30:26.180 deleted texts from his,
00:30:28.260 from his phone.
00:30:29.300 And,
00:30:29.840 uh,
00:30:30.380 when Spacey's team said,
00:30:31.580 we need to get into this phone.
00:30:33.200 Uh,
00:30:33.700 they said,
00:30:34.220 we don't have it.
00:30:34.860 The police don't have the police got into court and said,
00:30:37.560 I swear to God,
00:30:38.560 I gave the phone to the complainant's father and I'm the guy who gave it.
00:30:42.140 And his father looks like this.
00:30:43.140 And this is what he was wearing that day.
00:30:44.480 And the plain complainant's father got up and says,
00:30:46.160 I have no memory of this.
00:30:47.280 And I'm going,
00:30:47.980 so they took the phone and you know,
00:30:49.960 who knows?
00:30:50.420 And then that's when they were said,
00:30:51.840 you need to be aware of,
00:30:53.580 of the effects of perjury and tampering with evidence.
00:30:56.320 And that's when they said we're pleading the fifth.
00:30:58.860 So it's a great,
00:31:00.600 there's,
00:31:00.760 there's some more twists and turns in a proper Hollywood movie.
00:31:03.540 We would love to do it.
00:31:05.100 And when someone says to me,
00:31:06.400 it's too soon,
00:31:07.000 that means it should be done right now.
00:31:08.900 Well,
00:31:09.040 you might even be able to get Kevin Spacey to play himself at this point.
00:31:13.200 Wouldn't that be the best part of stunt casting?
00:31:15.680 Actually the best bit would be to get Kevin Spacey to play one of his
00:31:18.140 complainants.
00:31:19.440 You know?
00:31:19.960 Yeah.
00:31:20.400 Well,
00:31:20.580 apparently he checks the email sent to his website.
00:31:23.260 So you should send,
00:31:24.540 send your email along there.
00:31:26.000 And I swear to God,
00:31:29.080 the guy literally,
00:31:30.220 there's a thing called Kevin Spacey.com.
00:31:32.180 And the guy went on to Kevin Spacey and there's a button contact us.
00:31:35.120 And he wrote it and it got to Kevin Spacey.
00:31:37.620 So just a word to everyone out there,
00:31:39.720 go to Kevin Spacey.
00:31:40.500 If you want to send a message to Kevin Spacey,
00:31:42.720 go to Kevin Spacey.com.
00:31:43.980 He reads them all.
00:31:44.900 Yeah.
00:31:45.040 And tell him to reach out to Phelan McAleer whenever he puts together what I
00:31:49.340 hope we can get cooking here.
00:31:50.960 Well,
00:31:51.220 listen,
00:31:51.560 it was a tremendous project as could be expected.
00:31:54.440 The trial is over,
00:31:55.160 but you can listen to the podcast narrated by Phelan's lovely wife,
00:31:58.940 Anne McElhenney at Kevin Spacey podcast.com.
00:32:02.580 And you should also look up the Gosnell movie,
00:32:05.560 which I know we have a lot of members of the program.
00:32:07.480 Show Life community who watch and listen to this show,
00:32:10.020 a tremendous,
00:32:11.020 tremendous film if you haven't already seen it again,
00:32:13.280 very much bringing a real life event and series of events that are put on
00:32:18.240 the screen in a way that is both respectful and entertaining.
00:32:21.800 So Phelan McAleer,
00:32:23.140 always a pleasure to talk to you.
00:32:24.280 Thanks for coming on today.
00:32:25.560 Thank you,
00:32:25.900 Andrew.
00:32:26.420 Always a pleasure to come on your show as well.
00:32:28.080 Thank you.
00:32:28.820 That was Phelan McAleer,
00:32:30.840 half of the powerhouse duo that is Phelan McAleer and Anne McElhenney.
00:32:35.160 As I mentioned,
00:32:35.880 you can check out that podcast at Kevin Spacey podcast.com.
00:32:40.280 That's it for me.
00:32:41.200 We will be back on Tuesday with more of Canada's most irreverent talk show here
00:32:45.820 on true North.
00:32:46.440 Hope you have a wonderful weekend.
00:32:48.200 Thank you.
00:32:48.640 God bless.
00:32:49.220 And good day to you all.
00:32:50.400 Thanks for listening to the Andrew Lawton show.
00:32:52.740 Support the program by donating to true North at www.tnc.news.
00:32:57.880 экран.
00:33:01.480 2a.
00:33:02.320 Bye.
00:33:03.700 We'll see you next time.
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00:33:24.060 Bye.
00:33:25.100 Yeah.
00:33:26.280 Bye.