“I’d probably be dead right now”— MP sounds alarm on Canada’s suicide agenda
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Summary
The number of Canadians dying prematurely by what we call medical assistance in dying (MAID) has risen 13-fold since it was legalized in 2016, and is on track to hit 13,000 by the end of 2019. In response, Conservative MP Andrew Lawton has introduced a bill that would ban MAID for people with mental illness.
Transcript
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I'm Candice Malcolm and this is The Candice Malcolm Show. Thank you so much for joining us
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today. We are going to cover a very sensitive, very dark topic today. And I want to just start
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by talking about the rise of euthanasia in Canada. This is from a Cardis report. Cardis is a wonderful
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organization, does research into this kind of thing. So here is what they write. From exceptional
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to routine, MADE in Canada is the world's fastest growing assisted dying program. Here are some of
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the key points. The number of Canadians dying prematurely by what we call medical assistance
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in dying. We're using euphemism MADE to make it just seem like a normal procedure or another
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bureaucratic acronym from the government. No, we're talking about dying. We're talking about people
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being killed by medical practitioners and using the government to help them commit suicide.
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Well, this assisted dying has risen 13-fold since its legalization in 2016. The number of people dying
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in this way was 1,018. In 2022, the last year that we have data available, it is 13,241. This makes MADE
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in Canada the world's fastest growing assisted dying program. This is a serious concern, people,
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because this is not normal, right? Look at the assisted deaths as a percentage of total deaths
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in other countries around the world. You can see Canada is that red line. We just introduced this
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program in 2016, and it goes straight up. So other countries, European countries, have been doing this
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sort of thing for a generation now, and their levels are still growing in a concerning, alarming way,
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but nothing like the growth in Canada. And the things that the government, the Liberal government,
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is now applying this program to are concerning to all. We saw a proposal that it gets applied to
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minors, and now we have one that it would be applied to people with mental illness. Well, that is why
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I'm pleased to announce and to report that the Conservative Party is pushing back. A Conservative
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MP has introduced a private member's bill to ban medical assistance in dying. I prefer to just
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call it by what it is, assisted suicide, for mental illness. So back in May, Tamara Jensen,
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who is a Conservative member of Parliament for Cloverdale-Langley, tabled Bill C-218, a private member's bill
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that seeks to amend the criminal code to explicitly exclude mental disorders from being considered
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a grievous and immutable medical condition for the purposes of MAID eligibility. If the bill passes,
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individuals would qualify for assisted death on the basis of mental illness alone. So that private
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member's bill was introduced. And I'm happy to announce that Conservative MP Andrew Lawton has also
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joined this campaign. Of course, Andrew is a former journalist here at True North. He was a host of the
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Andrew Lawton Show before becoming a member of Parliament. He is now representing the writing of
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Elgin St. Thomas, London South. And I'm pleased to welcome Andrew to the show. Andrew, thank you so
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much for joining Candace. Welcome, it's so great to see you.
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Hey, always good to be with you, Candace. Thanks for having me.
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Well, tell us a little bit about this bill and why you've chosen to get alongside and working on this one.
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Absolutely. So Bill C-218, or as we've named the Right to Recover Act, is there to ensure that people who have a
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are able to be treated and supported and given hope instead of given death by the healthcare system?
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Just a bit of background here, if I may, Candace. The expansion of MAID to people with mental illness
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was never supposed to happen. It was never demanded by a court. What actually happened was a court decision
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in Quebec said that Canada's MAID rules were too restrictive. And the Liberal government responded
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with a significant expansion. And then the unelected Senate unilaterally decided to put in
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this additional change that if you had only a mental illness, no physical ailment whatsoever,
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you'd be eligible for MAID. They passed it, they kicked it back to the House of Commons,
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and the Liberal government under Trudeau, with David Lamedi at the time being the Attorney General,
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decided to move this forward in spite of massive pushback from the mental health field, the healthcare
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field, disability rights activists, a lot of people in this space from a number of different sectors,
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conservative, liberal didn't matter. And what they did is they put in place a date that this would go
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into effect and said, well, we'll figure out the details later. We'll figure out how we prevent abuse
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later. They couldn't do that in time. They still haven't done that. They've had to extend this date
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a couple of times. But right now, if nothing happens, as of March 17, 2027, people with a serious
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mental illness will be able to go through the MAID process. Now, this was something that is very near
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and dear to my heart. I've shared publicly, I've shared it with my former listeners and viewers
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here. I am a suicide survivor myself. I almost lost my life about 15 years ago to a suicide attempt
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after a prolonged battle with mental illness that very nearly took my life. I'm convinced that I would
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have gone through the MAID system 15 years ago. And given how we've seen this system unfold, I might
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have been successful in getting that sign off and having my life ended, which means I wouldn't be here
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today. I wouldn't have a loving wife. I wouldn't have the career I have. I wouldn't have all of the
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wonderful people I've met and worked with over the last decade and a half. So that was why I launched
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the I Got Better campaign to highlight stories of healing and show why the stakes are so high
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if we go down the road of granting MAID for people with mental illness.
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Well, it's unbelievable. And Andrew, I thank you for sharing your story. I saw that you posted a video on
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social media telling your very personal story. And I know it's not easy to do that. You sort of go
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through what personally happened to you. I do say I want to say, you know, it takes it takes a strong
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man to come out and admit that you you suffered through that you had a problem. I'm just reading
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some of the comments here. Mario Zaleja, he writes what a legend takes a strong confident man to talk
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about this. Congrats on overcoming this and the massive impact you're having on society. And I think
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especially to young men, I think I think I think that what you're going what you went through,
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a lot of other people are going through, we saw a huge increase in the sort of diseases of despair,
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especially during COVID, and particularly how it hits young men. And so I'm just wondering,
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like, what what is your message to other other young men out there that that might be suffering
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through something like this? One of the things that's really important about mental illness is
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it affects different groups differently. And you know, there is a huge push now,
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I shouldn't say huge, but there's a larger push now around men's mental health, because people have
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realized how men have a unique hurdle on seeking help for this. And it's not to say that it's worse
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or better, it's just different. You know, there are pressures that men put on themselves, there are
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pressures that society puts on men, the pressure to provide the pressure to perform to be a certain way.
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And there's also this expectation of being stoic and strong and tough. And I think this is where it's
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really, really important to have these conversations to ensure that there are supports available there,
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and that we're not normalizing the desire to end your life. And that's the other key here is that
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there are going to be people that because of their mental illness go through the MAID process,
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because they're going to be permitted to do that. But by giving that eligibility, we also create this
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other problem, which is that we basically give a green light to the idea that ending your life
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because of mental illness is the right thing to do. And I'm actually, and again, this is speculative on
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my part, but I am worried that there's going to be an increase in non-MAID suicides. Because now,
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all of a sudden, we've said, you know what, this actually makes sense. This is a logical,
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reasonable, reasonable thing to want. And that to me is very concerning. And I can't stress enough,
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this is a life or death issue. And Bill C-218 will save lives if it's passed.
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Well, I do want to shift it back to medical assistance and dying, the euphemism that we use,
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really, it's euthanasia, it's assisted suicide, it's going to a doctor and saying that, you know,
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my life is over now, or whatever the circumstances. Andrew, you've seen this during your time at True
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North, there have been reports of doctors or even government officials offering this
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as a solution to people who are suffering. So, I mean, now that you're on the other side,
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and you're a member of parliament, is this something that concerns you that not only is this just sort of
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available in the background, but it's something that's often actively promoted and given as an
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option to Canadians who would not have otherwise considered it?
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We have all heard the horror stories of the veteran that wants a wheelchair lift
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and is instead offered MAID, or people who have sought it and been granted it because of poverty,
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because they don't like their living conditions. And these situations are tragic. And I think the
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one most important thing here is that we have to support people in what they need to want to live
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their life. And that's oftentimes what's missing in this. And if you look at some of the numbers,
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even from the Canadian MAID reports, you see people that, you know, they're dealing with a medical
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issue, but they also put as a reason for wanting MAID loneliness. They put poverty, they put isolation,
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they put these other things in there, which are not medical things, are not medical qualities. It could
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actually be combated in a very real way. There was a case recently where Scott Adams, a cartoonist in the
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United States, I was just reading about this, was very close to using MAID and his life because of
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cancer. But he finally found one treatment that was able to ease his suffering long enough to want to
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be alive, even though he knows his days are numbered. We see time and time again, people who go through the
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system and there are other externalities beyond their immediate suffering that are causing them to
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seek this. And, you know, what we're dealing with in this legislation is the mental health component,
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because that same issue is there. We know that there is treatment and support available. And we
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also know there's a capacity issue as well. When someone wants to end their life because of a mental
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illness, that we typically view that as a symptom. And we treat it and intervene. And actually, the state
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has the right to commit someone to stop them from ending their life because we realize that protecting the
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vulnerable is one of the areas where you have a role for government. So if I go in to a doctor's
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office and I say, doctor, I'm dealing with depression, it's really difficult, I want to end my life. Well,
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how do we know when that legal and ethical responsibility to stop me kicks in versus the
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provision of services of, okay, here's a MAID pamphlet? Well, I mean, that's the shocking part of it all.
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I don't know if you've read Tristan Hopper's book, but he talks about how Canada has become like a
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cautionary tale. And when they were debating having some kind of a euthanasia program in the UK, both
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parties were worried not to allow their system to become like Canada, where it is just too often
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used. I mean, the fact that it's such a leading cause of death in Canada now, that we've seen this
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13 fold growth just in less than a decade since it's been brought in. It seems like a big issue,
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Andrew. And yet we don't really hear a lot about it aside from, you know, the bravery it took for
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you to put out this video in this private members bill. You know, is this something that you think
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that you will get support across the aisle from? Are there other MPs, even from other parties and
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within your own party that agree that this program has probably gone too far?
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We're hoping. I mean, this is and should be a nonpartisan issue. There was a bill in the
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previous parliament seeking to do exactly what this one is. And it fell short by only a handful
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of votes. It had support from all of the Conservatives, all of the New Democrats, both of the Greens at
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the time, and eight Liberals as well. And this current bill, which we're putting forward, I'm hopeful
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will receive support from across the aisle. If the Conservatives and the New Democrats and the
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Green MP Elizabeth May all support it, it will pass if 20 Liberal MPs get behind it.
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20 Liberal MPs. That's the math on that. So there are some Liberals on there that have been
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very outspoken in support of what we're trying to do. I hope to see more of that. This is again,
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a Liberal government that claims it's a new government. Perhaps Marnie will do the right
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thing here as Prime Minister and have his Attorney General get behind this. I do not want to score
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political points off this. I want to save lives and I want to prevent people going through what
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I went through 15 years ago from doing something irreversible. And I hope we can get support from
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that. And that's my call to action to all of your listeners and viewers, Candace. No matter where you
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are in the country, no matter who your MP is, whether you like them or not, reach out to them and ask them
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to support this bill. Ask them to support C218. If you have experience with mental illness yourself,
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share that with your Member of Parliament. Make sure they know there's a human face on this.
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And that's the spirit behind the I Got Better campaign, which at the risk of shamelessly
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plugging is at igotbetter.ca. Well, what a great initiative, Andrew. I really
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applaud you. Congratulate you for that. While you're here, I want to ask you though, because
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we've talked about this on the show yesterday. This has become a huge firestorm in the middle of
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the summer. Usually summers are quiet for news stories, but I think a lot of people are concerned
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by the story of Sean Foyt. So basically the CBC painted this guy as if he was some kind of an extremist,
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to some kind of a mega rock star because he supports Republicans and Donald Trump in the States.
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That doesn't really have anything to do with his concerts though. He's a worship leader,
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a Christian singer. He had a tour planned across Canada. Apparently it's his third year
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in a row touring across Canada, but suddenly he became very controversial and has had his permit
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revoked in cities across Eastern Canada from Halifax to Montreal. In Montreal, we saw that showdown with the
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police with Antifa where they firebombed a church using a smoke bomb in the middle of a performance,
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which is as I walked through on the show yesterday, there is a criminal code offence
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against interrupting a church service or a service of worship. And that's exactly what these Antifa
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thugs did right in front of the police. I saw that you wrote a lengthy post about this on X,
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Andrew. And I'm wondering if you can comment on, on what's happening and what you make of it all.
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Look, the idea that you need a permit to engage in work, regardless of your religion,
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is absolutely absurd. I have been clear going into politics and throughout my media career that that
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freedom of expression is my hill to die on. And when I see the interruption of a religious concert,
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which is, again, it's worship, I'm very concerned by it. Again, I stand up for freedom of expression
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and freedom of religion on principle. I don't need to agree with or share someone's religious practices
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or what they say. And I say that not as a denunciation of Sean Foyke, but I literally had
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never heard of him before, before, you know, two or three days ago, whenever it was that this came up.
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And, you know, I don't actually care what his beliefs are. I care what he says. I would stand
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up for his right to engage in the work that he's doing and not be harassed by bureaucrats.
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Now, again, I mean, the nature of freedom of expression is that you have to protect people
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who are saying things that you disagree with if you want to have any consistency and moral clarity on
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this. And, you know, in this case, it's a Christian singer. And I get people have raised all sorts of
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issues with him about, you know, how he's run his business and all of that. And none of that
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matters. All of that's a distraction. At the end of the day, you know, his right to speak, his right
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to sing, a church's right to host him, those are decisions to be made by them. And people can decide
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whether they want to go. There is no place for the government in that equation at all.
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Well, you raised a really interesting point. I'm just going to read a little bit about comparing it to
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something that happened under the Harper government. So you wrote, 17 years ago, the Canadian arts
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community and political left raised holy hell about a bill from the Harper government that would
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have blocked tax credits for film projects that went against public policy. That proposal,
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which the Conservatives ultimately scrapped, was lambasted as censorship. Of course, it was no
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such thing. The government has no obligation to fund any particular piece of art. Punishing people
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for what they create is another story. And then you write about how that reminds you
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of what's happening here. I mean, I don't really expect there to be consistency from these people,
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just because I'm talking about people in the world left, like, like, yeah, they'll criticize
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the Conservatives for doing something, then they'll turn around and do the exact same thing without
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any sense of shame or irony. But it is interesting how, you know, back then, even just saying that
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we're not going to fund, and I think the specific example was like, anti Alberta energy activists or
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something like that, saying that the government doesn't have to fund them. And that was considered
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censorship. And here we have them actually blocking a church service, and endangering them.
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Yeah. But even I mean, the fact that someone threw that smoke bomb, and you can see with such grace,
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right, Sean Fout just picks it up, hands it to another church leader, who just calmly walks it out
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the door, right? They weren't panicking, they weren't trying to fight, they weren't trying to agitate,
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they were really just trying to pray. And the fact that the police just stood by while that happened,
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and I don't think anyone was arrested, I don't think anybody was charged, seems just like a blatant
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and ugly double standard. And to me, it shows anti Christian bigotry, and an anti American hatred
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in our country by the same people who are sitting here saying, you have to be inclusive, we believe
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in diversity, no hate, hate has no home here. And yet they're showing all of those things. I mean,
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there's just so much irony here. Andrew, what do you make of it all?
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I think you need to be able to apply whatever the rules are evenly. And I know people have pointed
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out some very radical, hateful protests and demonstrations that have taken place in Montreal
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that have not attracted the ire of Montreal by law enforcement that have not received condemnation
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for operating without a so called permit. So I think at the end of the day here, what's going to
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happen is we're going to have to have a conversation in this country about the assaults that are taking
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place about freedoms. And if anyone's interested, I talked about this in my maiden speech in the
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House of Commons, in which I said that I wanted to make Canada a freer place. And that was motivating
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my entry to politics. You know, we need to have the freedom to worship the freedom to pray the freedom
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to sing the freedom to engage in art the freedom to express our political opinions. And we cannot allow
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governments of any level to get in the way of that. And I'm very glad that so many of my colleagues
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have spoken up about this as well. And Jamil Javani has specifically talked about attacks on the
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right to worship in a motion he's put forward before the Heritage Committee, which I think is
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very much one that should be getting some more attention as well. Well, Andrew, I know you're just
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getting started in Ottawa and as a member of Parliament, you're doing great work already. We
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appreciate your time and you joining the program. Andrew Lawton, thank you so much for joining us.
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Thank you, Candice. All right, folks, that's all the time we have for today. Thanks so much for tuning
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in. I'm Candice Malcolm. This is the Candice Malcolm Show. We'll be back again tomorrow with all the news.