Juno News - Independent MP considering run for Tories

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show. This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.380 Welcome to the Andrew Lawton Show here on True North. This is a bit of a different show if you haven't been able to tell already by the setting.

00:00:20.000 In politics, we often orient things around political parties. It's the Liberals versus the Conservatives versus the New Democrats.

00:00:27.320 Independents do not historically have the best go of things in politics. Very few people have had success running as independents and winning.

00:00:35.520 Oftentimes, people will get kicked out of a party caucus and finish out their term as an independent and then retire.

00:00:42.120 But there are a few exceptions to that rule, and it's also important to look at what independents are able to do.

00:00:48.060 So, I wanted to take a look at that with someone who has very quickly established himself as, I think, a very unique and effective figure in Canadian politics.

00:00:56.060 And that is Kevin Vong, who is the Independent Member of Parliament for Spadina for York.

00:01:01.720 And I was going to say he's joining me, but I'm joining you because we're in your home.

00:01:05.300 So, Kevin, thank you very much for having me and for sitting down for this.

00:01:09.280 No, it's my pleasure. Thanks for joining me here.

00:01:11.440 So, let's discuss, first off, why you are an independent.

00:01:15.160 Because you were on the ballot as a Liberal.

00:01:17.660 You ran for the Liberals, but during the campaign were basically kicked out of the running after the ballots had already been printed.

00:01:25.540 And you still won, which was quite an achievement.

00:01:29.120 So, the party made a decision in that period.

00:01:33.740 And I want to hear, in your words, what happened there.

00:01:36.100 Why did that happen?

00:01:37.080 Sure. So, there was a bogus allegation made against me years ago that was withdrawn by the court.

00:01:43.700 They realized that the false allegation of sexual assault was completely bogus.

00:01:48.100 So, it was completely withdrawn, no conditions, not in the public interest to pursue, was the prosecutor's words.

00:01:54.160 Which I think a lot of people appreciate that when it comes to lawyers, they're very intentional with the words that they use.

00:02:00.120 And they didn't say no reasonable prospect of conviction or any of that.

00:02:03.900 So, that was withdrawn, dealt with, until magically, four days before the election, it resurfaced again.

00:02:12.100 And so, I guess in the throes of the general election and the final few days, the Liberals made the decision that while we were supposed to be scheduled to have a chat about it and get the full debrief,

00:02:25.640 my opinion was, at the end of the day, if an allegation of charge is withdrawn, it no longer exists.

00:02:33.020 But their opinion, for some reason, changed.

00:02:36.860 And so, three days before the election, I got essentially an email that says,

00:02:42.860 Kevin, you are no longer a Liberal, which was really hard at the time.

00:02:46.420 I was new to politics, new to partisan politics, but I guess has been a bit of a blessing in disguise.

00:02:50.860 Just to not gloss over this part, there were also issues about disclosing it to the Liberal Party and also to the Navy, where you were and are a reservist.

00:03:00.800 And you have said that was a mistake on your part in past interviews, have you not?

00:03:05.920 Yes.

00:03:06.300 So, there is, you know, as a reservist, as a member of the Canadian Armed Forces, we have the obligation to disclose a charge.

00:03:13.800 Even if you're innocent like I was, and, you know, ignorance is not an excuse.

00:03:19.560 And so, I own that.

00:03:21.160 That is something that I should have done, and even though the charge was ultimately withdrawn,

00:03:27.420 and that's something where I accept the military's ruling.

00:03:30.800 We went through a summary hearing, and obviously there was a consequence for that.

00:03:36.320 I have responsibility for that, and I would suggest I've probably paid for it in spades.

00:03:40.020 One of the things that comes up in politics, as anyone who's been a candidate can tell you,

00:03:45.940 is that you're very much a casualty of a war that is bigger than you in a lot of ways.

00:03:49.660 And, you know, people that don't like the Liberals see this guy, and they think he's the weak link of the Liberal campaign,

00:03:54.640 so that motivates the Liberals to cut bait in the way that they did.

00:03:58.820 How was that for you on a personal level?

00:04:00.940 Because it was not personal for the people that just didn't like you because you were a politician or a Liberal.

00:04:06.000 But when you're in the midst of that, that's an incredibly personal fight for you and for your family.

00:04:11.020 Well, yes, and to be fair, Andrew, I was a card-carrying Liberal for all of, like, I don't know, three, four weeks.

00:04:16.560 But it was hard, right?

00:04:18.120 To see your name dragged through the mud by people that you've never met was tough.

00:04:23.960 And I think even harder was to see people that you thought were your friends and family who were there joining the Kevin parade when, you know,

00:04:35.520 I was, quote-unquote, a rising star to then turn around and try to climb off my, you know, my carcass with the knives that they stabbed in my back.

00:04:43.800 And I think one of the things that came out of that was Elizabeth, my wife and I, were very lucky to find out who our real friends were.

00:04:52.400 And we're very grateful for them who have been with us and have supported us in, you know, every step of the way since.

00:04:58.260 You mentioned having been a card-carrying Liberal for just a few weeks.

00:05:02.000 Let's go back to 2021 here.

00:05:04.440 Why did you decide to, both to get into politics when you did, but why did you decide to run as a Liberal?

00:05:09.960 So, my predecessor was retiring, and basically, I got a call a few days before Canada Day.

00:05:17.500 I met him because he was my MP.

00:05:18.980 This is Adam Vaughn.

00:05:19.800 Yes.

00:05:20.380 You know, I was involved in my local community.

00:05:23.060 I was, you know, president of my Conno board.

00:05:24.920 I was chair of our residence association.

00:05:28.140 You know, this was a city and a community that I belonged to and at the time had lived for over a decade and just was involved in giving back, just wanted to make our community better.

00:05:37.260 And he essentially called me.

00:05:39.540 He's like, listen, I'm retiring, and I think you should be the next MP.

00:05:43.800 And so, up until that point, I was never a partisan person.

00:05:47.960 I had only ever run in 2018 when a bunch of people encouraged me to run because there were supposed to be new seats downtown.

00:05:56.220 Obviously, Premier Doug Ford decided to change that and cut city council in half.

00:06:00.040 But at the time, I really liked the idea of city council because it was nonpartisan.

00:06:03.820 I was never a partisan person.

00:06:04.820 I just, you know, I think every party has good ideas and, you know, a good idea is a good idea.

00:06:11.760 And so, when the Liberals asked me to run, I was like, well, is Justin Trudeau really completely aligned my values?

00:06:18.780 Probably not.

00:06:19.820 But I think God knows the Liberals could use people that have experience in terms of what it's like to start a business and build it from the ground up.

00:06:27.360 Oh, God, like, you know, they need that.

00:06:29.860 And as a Naval Reservist, sure, I wasn't in the regular force.

00:06:34.360 But I think there was a perspective there, particularly from a naval perspective that I had learned in my, I think at the time, seven.

00:06:42.300 Come next month, I will serve nine years as a Naval Reserve officer.

00:06:47.020 And I thought that was a perspective that I could contribute.

00:06:49.880 Obviously, I was very naive to politics, having been new to partisan politics in particular, and none of that came to pass.

00:06:58.320 But that was kind of my motivation, right?

00:07:00.680 My parents were refugees.

00:07:03.280 Canada will welcome them when other countries are closing their borders and people need.

00:07:06.600 And so that was actually my primary motivation for joining the need, because I wanted to give back to the country that's given my family so much.

00:07:15.080 And so when the opportunity came up to potentially serve as a member of parliament, I was like, man, that's freaking awesome to be able to not just serve part time in uniform, but also to do it as part of my day job.

00:07:26.440 Who wouldn't want that? 0.71

00:07:27.460 If you had been, not even as a candidate, if you had been a voter in a riding that was a perfect three-way split, NDP, Conservative, Liberal, any one of them could have won.

00:07:37.920 It's a, I can't say a coin toss, but if there were a three-sided coin, it would have been a three-sided coin toss.

00:07:42.980 Would you have voted Liberal in that election, naturally?

00:07:45.740 Because part of the problem in some cities is that if you're going to run as a candidate, there are only a couple of options that could be available to you as a winner,

00:07:53.360 and not to besmirch whoever the Conservative is going to be in Spadina for York.

00:07:57.700 It's not a traditionally Conservative riding.

00:07:59.740 So would you have aligned with the Liberals under that scenario I just laid out?

00:08:04.140 You know, it's a good question.

00:08:05.240 I know I can tell you for a fact I wouldn't vote for the NDP.

00:08:08.980 They do not reflect my values.

00:08:11.320 I think like a majority of Canadians, I'm pretty centrist.

00:08:15.280 This is where I think it would depend on the candidate itself, which is how our system should work.

00:08:20.780 You know, I was mentioning to you, Andrew, before I guess we started rolling, you know, in 2019, Andrew Scheer's team asked me to run for the Conservatives.

00:08:28.580 They're just, at the time, they had asked me to run in a place that was not viable.

00:08:33.360 And so in this case, I guess when the Liberals came asking for me to run and they invited me to do so,

00:08:39.540 it was in a riding where I knew that if I worked hard enough as an individual candidate, that I could win.

00:08:44.960 So when the Conservatives came to you with that ask in 2019, notwithstanding the riding wouldn't have been one that they were likely to carry or did carry,

00:08:53.700 was that something that you could have seen fitting?

00:08:56.560 Was that something you could have seen working for you to run for that party?

00:08:59.920 Yeah.

00:09:00.160 So under your scenario where it was kind of like, you know, every party has an equal footing and where I think it's up to the candidate.

00:09:07.620 And if someone can outwork others, which I believe I could do, I would have ran for Andrew Scheer's team.

00:09:14.160 One of the interesting things, just to fast forward to you being an independent in Parliament,

00:09:19.120 is you spoke up and I think very eloquently took aim at what's become one of the Liberals' flagship policies, which is the carbon tax.

00:09:25.820 And you were actually, I'd say, very cruelly mocked by Justin Trudeau in response to that question by saying, you know,

00:09:35.560 your voters voted for a carbon tax, was basically what he was saying, and you're parroting Conservative talking points.

00:09:40.840 And I'm curious what you thought about that, both the tone but also that substance,

00:09:44.500 that you would have, in a different universe, been running on and governing on a carbon tax,

00:09:50.660 that now you're standing up and saying, this isn't doing it for Canadians.

00:09:53.900 So there's two things I'll say to that, Andrew.

00:09:55.320 That entire question period, Justin Trudeau was, his kind of response back to the Conservatives in particular,

00:10:01.720 was like, why are you making it about me?

00:10:04.020 Why are you making it personal?

00:10:05.100 It's supposed to be about the policy of Canadians.

00:10:07.500 And then came my question, and then he did hypocritically exactly what he criticized the Conservatives to do,

00:10:13.760 which is making it personal about me.

00:10:15.780 Now, what I will say about the Prime Minister is, he is unfortunately so far out of touch that he doesn't realize that,

00:10:22.820 yes, I think all MPs now had run on a platform of some form of a carbon tax,

00:10:29.280 but a lot had changed from when we had run in 2021 to at that time in 2023, right?

00:10:35.840 You need to be adaptable.

00:10:37.360 You need to be able to change your policies.

00:10:39.140 They can't just be written in stone,

00:10:41.220 because the reality is, since those two years at the time of when we had that question,

00:10:47.520 food inflation was the highest as it had ever been in 40 years, right?

00:10:50.740 Food bank usage was up.

00:10:52.220 You should be able to adapt to the realities that everyday Canadians are facing.

00:10:55.500 And that's what I was doing, right?

00:10:57.960 You know, the carbon tax clearly now, unfortunately, has shown that it's not effective.

00:11:02.440 Why would you continue to do something that is making it more painful for Canadians?

00:11:07.260 And I think the reality is the Prime Minister doesn't know what it's like to have to worry about making next month's rent

00:11:14.380 or putting food on the table, whereas my family has.

00:11:17.420 You're right that there's a past dependency in politics,

00:11:19.880 and I find a lot of the time that there's so much wisdom that suggests you can't admit you were wrong,

00:11:25.260 you can't be wrong, and you have to just go all in, full steam ahead on whatever you said previously.

00:11:30.980 And I mean, on one hand, we don't like politicians who flip-flop for reasons that look more like

00:11:35.500 they're political in nature rather than earnest,

00:11:38.600 but you're also describing something there, which I think is a big failing of the political system,

00:11:43.880 which is that very few people are willing to take a step back and say,

00:11:46.840 OK, this didn't work, or this isn't working, or, you know what, even if you support a carbon tax,

00:11:52.200 which I've been pretty clear on the show I don't, but even if you support one,

00:11:55.460 OK, Canadians cannot afford this right now.

00:11:57.980 And the number of people in the Liberal caucus that have done that is basically one,

00:12:03.120 I think, Ken Hardy from Newfoundland.

00:12:05.060 So there must be privately, and I'm curious about this,

00:12:08.400 some more misgivings that people are not willing to share publicly.

00:12:12.220 Have you experienced that?

00:12:13.200 So I have heard from kind of liberals of the grapevine that I said, you know,

00:12:17.220 that I am articulating a lot of positions, whether it is on the Israel and Hamas war

00:12:22.560 or the carbon tax, a position that they share, but for one reason or another,

00:12:28.880 don't feel comfortable articulating publicly.

00:12:32.780 And that's a shame, right, that they're in a position where they can't speak up

00:12:37.860 for their constituents who are struggling to make ends meet, right?

00:12:41.900 Then, you know, they'll continue to parrot these lines either by choice

00:12:46.040 or because they've been whipped to do so, you know, in spite of what the evidence

00:12:50.920 and the facts show, the Departmentary Budget Officer has said

00:12:54.000 that the carbon tax, contrary to what the Liberal line is,

00:12:58.680 actually hurts more Canadians than it helps, whereas the Liberal line somehow flips that.

00:13:03.080 Yeah, they basically say everyone's profiting from the carbon tax,

00:13:06.040 which I don't think people buy when they go to the gas station, but nevertheless.

00:13:09.880 Exactly. And they're getting taxed twice, right?

00:13:11.980 So HSC is also applied on top of the carbon tax.

00:13:15.860 And so they're getting dinged twice.

00:13:18.060 And, you know, everyone's heating bill is basically double

00:13:20.520 because if you look at the line items, the carbon tax is half.

00:13:24.460 So going back to your election, you are elected as a Liberal.

00:13:28.380 You're the winner.

00:13:28.940 You know that you're not going to be sitting in the Liberal caucus, at least right away.

00:13:34.060 Was that a bittersweet night or was it all positive

00:13:36.960 and that you've been dragged through the ringer and you beat it?

00:13:41.060 It was not a bittersweet night.

00:13:44.260 You know, if you ask my father-in-law, he's recounted this to me

00:13:47.080 because it was a very long election in the sense that the ballots were being counted.

00:13:55.960 The lines for the voting stations were actually really long in mind.

00:13:59.660 And I remember fielding text messages from constituents and friends who live in Iran.

00:14:04.800 They're like, Kevin, I don't understand.

00:14:06.380 Are you still a Liberal or are you not?

00:14:07.880 And I would have to kind of go through that process of explaining, actually, I'm no longer a Liberal.

00:14:13.360 It'll still say Liberal on the ballot, but I'm independent now.

00:14:16.460 And they're like, okay, I don't care.

00:14:19.180 I know you and I want to support you and I'm going to vote for you.

00:14:22.340 I just wanted to know, you know, what the deal is.

00:14:26.280 And I'm grateful to all those people who, you know, had spent 10 years living in the community.

00:14:31.340 They knew who I was, right?

00:14:32.520 Whatever kind of the headline said.

00:14:37.020 And so that night, I ended up kind of just going to bed.

00:14:42.240 I was like, you know, it was kind of painful watching reruns of them, kind of the newscasts,

00:14:48.280 going through, oh, you know, Kevin's kicked out and all this.

00:14:51.820 I was like, hey, you know, I've heard it once.

00:14:53.740 I've heard it now.

00:14:54.340 Yeah.

00:14:54.460 And my father-in-law told me, him and my mother-in-law had stayed up and we were with

00:15:02.940 them that evening.

00:15:04.240 And in the morning when they saw that I had won, they knocked on the door and were like,

00:15:08.840 hey, Kevin, you won.

00:15:09.800 And I was like, oh, okay.

00:15:11.460 And apparently, I don't remember this at all.

00:15:13.140 And they're like, apparently, I then just rolled back over.

00:15:16.100 And kind of that was it, right?

00:15:17.960 Because you've got to put yourself in, you know, I'm the son of immigrants, refugees.

00:15:21.880 We had nothing.

00:15:22.780 We had to work hard to build up everything that we had.

00:15:26.040 And in this case, the one thing that all of us have is really our name and our reputation.

00:15:30.940 And I spent 30 plus years building it up only for a false allegation to basically have it

00:15:36.800 kind of tossed aside and dragged through the mud.

00:15:39.040 And the hardest thing for me, too, is at that time, I had spent six and a half years, I think,

00:15:43.100 contributing to the Navy and helping to kind of build up the Navy's awareness and reach

00:15:49.760 locally in the city as well as the GTA.

00:15:53.260 And I was proud of that.

00:15:54.820 And because of one mistake, which, again, I own, I basically kind of washed all of that

00:16:00.280 contribution impact away.

00:16:02.240 At least that's how I had felt, right?

00:16:03.860 So, you know, I had, I was so proud of my service in the Navy.

00:16:06.940 Now, I was the one who had kind of hurt the Navy.

00:16:09.240 And, and I had hurt my family, my friends who, who had supported me.

00:16:14.840 And, and I, it was just so, I don't know how to describe it now, but it was just, you

00:16:21.340 know, it was, it was really hard.

00:16:23.540 And, and so it was, it was not bittersweet.

00:16:27.220 It was, it was, it was really tough.

00:16:28.980 Did you have a sense that, you know what, once I get to Ottawa, this will all be sorted

00:16:35.880 out.

00:16:36.260 The liberals will welcome me back after a month in the penalty box.

00:16:39.620 Did you have a, you will either a presumption or, or even a calculation of likelihood that

00:16:45.760 you'd be welcomed into the liberal caucus at some point in the near future?

00:16:49.860 Uh, not really.

00:16:51.620 Did you want to be?

00:16:52.760 Well, so at the time I was like, well, you know, sure.

00:16:56.160 I was card carrying member for three, four weeks, but that's also the only team that

00:17:00.640 I kind of quote unquote was officially a part of, right?

00:17:03.180 You knew no one else was going to pick you up.

00:17:04.580 It was either whether they would forgive you or whether you'd be living what you're living

00:17:07.600 now.

00:17:08.200 Yeah.

00:17:08.640 So, you know, at the time I was like, well, you know, maybe through hard work.

00:17:12.840 Um, and you know, folks had told me, you know, Kevin, like most independents would have 0.99

00:17:17.520 just kind of kept their head down, cast their check.

00:17:20.660 And then just kind of wrote out however long the mandate would be.

00:17:24.600 Right.

00:17:24.780 And for me, I was like, well, that's just not who I am.

00:17:28.600 Right.

00:17:29.160 Um, I was, I, I volunteered to serve both, you know, that was a case for the Navy and that

00:17:36.020 was a case to serve in public office.

00:17:38.080 And I remember when I was kind of talking to friends about, you know, when my predecessor

00:17:42.540 asked me to run, uh, and the liberals had wanted me to be your candidate, people were

00:17:46.540 like, Kevin, don't do it.

00:17:47.320 Why would you, you know, our, our startup, uh, was doing really well.

00:17:52.880 They're like, why would you get off the rocket ship?

00:17:55.500 You're, I w I was teaching at Western at the time, uh, our alma mater.

00:17:58.900 I was serving in the Navy and then my Naval career was going well, uh, and the business

00:18:02.980 was going well.

00:18:03.440 Why would you get off the rocket ship and, and, you know, often otherwise great private

00:18:09.300 civilian career and subject yourself to the vulgarity of public office.

00:18:13.880 Um, and in many respects they were right, but I naively was like, well, this is about giving

00:18:20.480 back to the country that gave my family so much.

00:18:23.180 Um, and, and so, you know, I, I had already given that up to be able to serve in public

00:18:32.260 office.

00:18:33.280 And I, so I was going to do the job.

00:18:36.280 I'm, I'm going to do what I was elected to do.

00:18:38.580 And that means going out and doing the hard work and setting up for the issues that are

00:18:43.000 important, um, to my community and what I believe to be important to the country.

00:18:47.080 Did you view being an independent as a handicap at first, or did you relatively early see,

00:18:53.520 you know what, this could actually be an advantage?

00:18:55.660 It was hard.

00:18:56.400 Um, because when, when a normal, I guess, typical MP is elected, they have a support system,

00:19:02.900 right?

00:19:03.160 That the party provides that kind of guides you through that.

00:19:05.700 It's like, there's like an onboarding.

00:19:07.420 The house of commons has that too for everyone, but it is not as in depth.

00:19:11.180 It is, there's no support network there.

00:19:13.700 And so I kind of had to muddle through and figure out stuff on my own.

00:19:18.260 Well, you still, to be frank, had a toxicity about you as well at the time where some people

00:19:22.760 that even thought you were wrong, probably wouldn't want to be caught in a photo with

00:19:26.000 you by a journalist, right?

00:19:27.420 Yeah, exactly.

00:19:28.180 Right.

00:19:28.440 And, and there were times where I would be walking the riding, doing what I think an MP

00:19:33.300 should be knocking on doors, checking into small businesses.

00:19:35.840 And, you know, random people would, would kind of start yelling at me and accosting me.

00:19:41.600 I think the worst part, and one of the things that I, I think I regret not doing at the time

00:19:46.580 was, you know, there's a recorder from CBC and a few others that would have cost my wife

00:19:51.220 than my, uh, my girlfriend when she was walking our dog.

00:19:54.580 I wasn't even there.

00:19:55.500 Right.

00:19:55.940 Uh, you know, there's a CBC reporter, like tabloid style, kind of outside our condo, um,

00:20:01.980 just waiting for Kevin to emerge.

00:20:04.080 And I regret not, um, reporting that to, to the CBC ombudsman and, and, and the, uh,

00:20:11.860 ombudsman war writ large.

00:20:14.140 What was it for you that maybe flipped that switch where you started to have the attitude

00:20:19.940 that you seem to express now, which is that being an independent is actually a bit of an

00:20:24.660 advantage.

00:20:25.060 Maybe it's not ideal, but it opens up doors that you don't have when you're whipped, when

00:20:29.200 you're, uh, you know, kind of glued to a platform.

00:20:32.080 Was there a specific issue that kind of caused you to view that differently?

00:20:35.880 I think, uh, I think the carbon tax is where we started and, you know, I was one of the

00:20:41.600 first, I think, to call for temporary relief, right?

00:20:44.340 The Paul Martin government did that, um, when gas prices were really high with the GSC relief.

00:20:49.440 Why couldn't the Trudeau government do the same when their people were suffering food bank 0.87

00:20:53.620 lines were so long and food inflation was the highest in my lifetime and the lifetime of

00:20:58.060 half of all Canadians.

00:20:59.860 But then it, foreign interference started to, to really rise as an issue.

00:21:03.960 And I'm glad it did.

00:21:05.180 And it still is.

00:21:05.940 And, uh, a very important issue.

00:21:07.480 And that's where I was able to, to speak up in a way where I know I wouldn't have been

00:21:12.460 able to, I was still a member of the liberal caucus.

00:21:14.620 Um, and it hasn't been easy.

00:21:16.740 I don't think it's a coincidence that when I was starting to stand up very strongly on

00:21:21.080 foreign interference, that that's when we got our first bomb threat.

00:21:23.920 Hmm.

00:21:24.100 Explain that, what happened.

00:21:27.440 So, I, I think depending on who you speak to, there are, uh, individuals who believe

00:21:31.940 that what happened to me was not, uh, an, an incident by way of just kind of one bogus

00:21:37.800 individual, but potentially because...

00:21:40.260 You mean the, the sexual assault allegation.

00:21:42.000 Correct.

00:21:42.240 Um, you know, that false allegation against me, um, could have been part of a machination

00:21:47.000 over, uh, something much more, uh, broader and, and longer term.

00:21:52.220 And that's because you don't have to be a political scientist to realize that me being

00:21:56.580 the, you know, son of refugees, um, who were persecuted by communists, um, who were run out

00:22:02.540 of their country, um, by communists that took everything, um, would not be sympathetic to

00:22:07.960 the Chinese, uh, communist party and their agenda.

00:22:10.800 And I've spoken since to quite a number of, of kind of experts in that field where they've

00:22:15.760 described people like me, uh, I, uh, Canadian born Chinese, um, as kind of being one of

00:22:22.640 the CCP's kind of worst nightmares because you, you, you're someone who's from the Chinese 1.00

00:22:29.060 Canadian diaspora and that community, not parroting their lines.

00:22:34.040 They instead want to see kind of people who were born in the mainland, um, who would be

00:22:38.620 sympathetic to them.

00:22:39.680 And, and so, you know, by the time I was sworn in as a member of parliament, that was the

00:22:44.720 second time I had sworn an oath of allegiance and service to the country.

00:22:48.480 Right.

00:22:48.800 And the first being when I joined the Navy, for me, I could not be more proud to be a

00:22:53.640 Canadian.

00:22:54.060 That means standing up for our values, whether or not it's, it's, uh, easy or not.

00:22:58.480 Now, when you say this could have been a, an influence operation or a disruption operation,

00:23:04.460 are you talking about the, the sexual assault allegation itself or the kind of digging it

00:23:11.040 up and giving it to the media or, or both?

00:23:13.320 So it depends who you talk to.

00:23:15.600 Um, some people say, listen, this fits the MO of Chinese communist party in terms of the,

00:23:21.860 the honey trap.

00:23:23.340 Um, I think the sad reality for me when I reflect on it all is, uh, when I kind of met the complainant,

00:23:30.320 I was simply looking for someone to share my life with.

00:23:33.400 Um, and I was looking for a partner.

00:23:35.320 I was dating her for a few months.

00:23:37.780 Um, and then it flamed out.

00:23:40.320 And then by a random encounter, although some people, I thought it was a random encounter.

00:23:44.620 Some people said it wasn't, um, that I bumped into her again.

00:23:47.560 And, um, the whole kind of incident happened when she invited me over, uh, only for her

00:23:53.080 to ask, uh, essentially have a random person come in the middle of the night that told me

00:23:57.740 to leave.

00:23:58.440 Um, which was weird, but I did.

00:24:02.660 And then when I went home, I woke up in the morning to two voicemails from Toronto police

00:24:07.740 that said, um, someone had made an allegation of sexual assault against me.

00:24:12.140 And that was my first ever.

00:24:14.220 In what year was this?

00:24:15.460 This was in 20, 2019.

00:24:18.940 And why would you have been on the radar then in your view?

00:24:22.240 So in 2018, I had run for city council, um, and the election was in October.

00:24:28.300 Uh, I was ultimately unsuccessful.

00:24:30.500 I lost to the NDP incumbents.

00:24:32.540 Um, and in 2019, uh, correction, a month later or a few weeks later after my municipal election

00:24:38.620 is when I had met, uh, the, the woman who would eventually false, falsely accused me of 0.93

00:24:44.980 sexual assault.

00:24:45.560 And so, you know, we were dating for a few months and we started, we stopped dating in

00:24:51.300 February.

00:24:51.680 And then I, I thought I randomly bumped into her again in March.

00:24:55.880 And so when she invited me over, uh, this is now was early April.

00:25:00.840 Um, you know, she, she invited me over, offered to give me a ride.

00:25:05.420 Heck, she even asked me what pizza I wanted.

00:25:08.160 And so, you know, when I got to, to her place, we were going to watch a movie and hang out.

00:25:14.100 And so without going into all the details, we essentially were in bed, uh, we fell asleep

00:25:19.560 cuddling.

00:25:20.260 And in the middle of the night, she woke up and she was like, oh, checks her phone.

00:25:24.880 Uh, we're cuddling.

00:25:25.840 So she wakes me up and she's like, oh, my friend needs me.

00:25:28.720 And I was like, okay, this is, this is still winter.

00:25:31.780 It's the middle of the night.

00:25:33.740 Uh, I was like, do you want me to go with you?

00:25:35.560 She's like, no.

00:25:36.220 I was like, okay, can I stay here, sleep and wake up in the morning and leave as I have

00:25:41.060 previously before?

00:25:41.660 She's like, sure.

00:25:42.640 So she leaves, I guess, to tell her to see her friend, because that's what she told me.

00:25:47.060 And I, the next thing I know, I wake up again.

00:25:51.260 I'm woken up by a strange woman that I had never seen before.

00:25:53.720 She says, I need to leave.

00:25:55.400 And so she steps out of the condom so I can get dressed.

00:25:58.940 And I just assume this is her friend.

00:26:02.040 I don't know.

00:26:02.780 And so I call an Uber, actually, as a Lyft, and, and I leave.

00:26:06.080 And that is what I learned in our criminal justice system, despite what I think the majority

00:26:11.200 of Canadians believe, where, you know, innocent who proven guilty, police talk to both sides.

00:26:15.840 I learned that through the false allegation of one individual, the police can lay a charge

00:26:21.680 without having never spoken to me.

00:26:23.560 And I was like, this is, it was, I mean, I, I didn't even know what to do.

00:26:29.080 I, I had to call my best friend who told me, Kevin, you need to get a defense lawyer.

00:26:33.220 And I was like, I don't even know where I start.

00:26:36.020 So I called another friend who recommended somebody and who arranged for me to surrender

00:26:42.160 myself the next day to, I guess, to be booked by Toronto police, right?

00:26:44.980 And they let me out the same day, like a few hours after they booked me.

00:26:50.060 And then seven months later, I never actually, you know, the criminal defense lawyer is like,

00:26:56.200 Kevin, this is nuts, but I'll take care of it.

00:26:58.560 You try to move on with your life.

00:27:00.460 And so I tried to focus on, you know, stuff I was doing in the community and all that sort

00:27:04.760 of stuff. And, uh, seven months later, which I'm told in the criminal justice system,

00:27:09.480 apparently is very fast. Um, but it didn't feel like, not when it's hanging over you,

00:27:14.100 like that's right. Seven months later, the, the crown completely withdraw with, uh, withdrew

00:27:19.640 the single charge. Uh, there was no, um, kind of special considerations or anything like that.

00:27:26.140 They completely took it off. And cause I didn't even get my day in court, right? I didn't even get

00:27:30.100 a chance to fight it and be declared innocent. They were just like, Nope, we're not even going to

00:27:33.860 take this to court, which, you know, I kind of wish it did because then I'd have a definitive

00:27:39.140 kind of an acquittal is, is more definitive than just we're not prosecuting. Yeah. It's

00:27:44.800 completely withdrawn. Right. But the issue is if, if you want to weaponize a false allegation like

00:27:51.040 this, all you need to do is make, make a false accusation and the media runs with the story.

00:27:57.300 Um, and you know, the Toronto star, uh, you know, I spoke to one of the three reporters in the bylines

00:28:04.300 later within the context of foreign interference. Uh, and they admitted to me, they never even spoke

00:28:08.980 to the complainant themselves. And I was like, that's nuts. So you, you put your name to an

00:28:13.600 article without having ever spoken to the person. Uh, and you just ran the story as it was told to

00:28:18.800 you like, really? So do you, you said earlier that some people think this was interference.

00:28:25.980 Are you one of those people? Do you think this was a, an operation? Um, I, I think the more I

00:28:32.660 have learned about foreign interference, the more that that is also my opinion. Right. And, and this

00:28:38.140 isn't a secret so I can, you know, I've, I've sat down and spoken with CSIS, uh, as well to share

00:28:44.800 what, what my observations are, my experiences and, and what other members of, of the Chinese

00:28:50.760 diaspora and in my community have brought to me. Um, I, I remember, uh, when I requested to,

00:28:56.440 to meet with them, um, you know, I thought I'd meet with them in Ottawa and they're like, no, no,

00:29:01.120 you're going to meet in Toronto with, with our people who are, uh, specializing in this. And I

00:29:07.100 thought it'd be in half an hour meeting and it was two hours. Hmm. So to go back to how you've taken

00:29:13.660 this experience in, I think the foreign interference issue was probably one of the

00:29:17.580 first where you really started to, in my view, and the timeline's a little bit muddled now for

00:29:22.560 the last couple of years, stand out as, as someone who, wow, this is a guy that that's actually using

00:29:27.760 his position, even in a not ideal situation, being an independent and trying to advocate for,

00:29:34.020 for real change on this. It also made you, I think, very popular, certainly online among a lot

00:29:40.100 of conservatives, people that, you know, love the optics of, oh, you know, here's a guy that

00:29:44.100 ran as a liberal, sticking it to the liberals. And, and you're feeding into sort of a partisan

00:29:47.660 framework, even, even with that. But you've also found a lot of support from people on the right

00:29:52.860 for your stance on, on Israel and your criticism of antisemitism. Uh, when I kind of had the idea of

00:29:58.360 doing this interview, you had, uh, kind of given a very thoughtful thread on how your thinking has

00:30:02.220 evolved on the use of the emergencies act. And we can talk about that as well, but, but I'm curious

00:30:06.580 how you felt about that, of finding this, this support in, in a way from, you know, people that

00:30:12.540 had you been elected in the liberal caucus and stayed in the liberal caucus, probably wouldn't

00:30:15.980 have had much time for you. Yeah, I think I'm, I'm, as an independent, I'm grateful for, for any

00:30:21.320 support that anyone offers. I, you know, I'm willing to work with anyone if it means being able to

00:30:27.020 kind of advance things that I believe are important to Canadians. Um, that, for me, that's

00:30:32.200 affordability, that's housing and fighting foreign interference and setting up for our values. And I 0.72

00:30:36.520 think that's where the, the Israel Hamas, uh, conflict has really, um, made it, you know, for

00:30:43.060 better, for worse, very easy for Canadians now to be able to see who truly shares their values. Um,

00:30:49.320 whether it's standing up for, frankly, just for rule of law here in the streets of, of Canada,

00:30:56.400 um, nevermind what's happening in the Middle East. Right. And unfortunately, it's

00:31:02.200 especially here in the city of Toronto, where we have 25 members of parliament, 25 MPPs and 25 city

00:31:07.200 councillors, not including the mayor. I can probably count on one hand, Andrew, how many people of the

00:31:12.000 76 who have spoken out against antisemitism. And this is a very difficult for a lot of liberal

00:31:19.460 MPs. And I, I don't know too, too many on a, on a personal level, but I just know that there have

00:31:24.600 been a lot, even some Jewish MPs that have been somewhat quiet and equivocal on this. Uh, people like

00:31:29.960 Anthony House father, who's a liberal MP who's been quite outspoken on this, have been very much

00:31:34.680 in the minority. And I'm, I'm wondering, well, it's two parts to this question. Firstly, I'm just

00:31:39.460 wondering what your relationships are like with, with liberals and with MPs from other parties,

00:31:43.280 one-on-one in Ottawa, but also, you know, are these MPs that fundamentally believe something

00:31:51.460 different from you? They fundamentally believe it, or are there MPs that have been shamed and

00:31:54.980 silenced into not saying what they think, which is what you're saying? So, so there are a few kind

00:32:00.660 of, uh, liberals who are kind of quote unquote, the mavericks or people that have been, um, willing

00:32:07.420 to speak up. Anthony House father, I've gotten to know in part because he kind of sat near me. Um,

00:32:13.060 and, and we've since seen one another at the rallies in support of Canada's Jewish community. Um, there,

00:32:19.220 there are a few others like Joel Lightbound and others who had at times kind of voted, um, despite

00:32:25.740 what the party whip, um, had said. And, um, I actually have, have a lot of respect for, for Joel

00:32:31.820 and, um, he, he is, I think a great public policy thinker and, um, I hope he has a great leadership

00:32:39.520 role, whatever that might be in the liberal at some point. I've gotten to know, I think a lot of

00:32:44.220 my conservative colleagues and the reality is we are aligned on a lot of policy positions

00:32:49.900 that I think frankly, if liberals weren't whipped would probably share too. Um, what do you mean

00:32:56.360 apart from the carbon tax? Well, so I, well, it's funny. So the carbon tax is one example that,

00:33:03.120 that I do want to speak about because there was, um, you know, a liberal MP and, and, and I won't name

00:33:08.080 them, but I remember asking, you know, I was trying to have like a constructive conversation. I was like,

00:33:13.200 listen, help me to understand your position because the reality is, um, the carbon tax dries up gas

00:33:21.160 prices and there are people, you know, this is an individual who represents, um, the GTA riding

00:33:27.760 and not everyone has public transit as an option. People have to drive. And I think that's a reasonable

00:33:36.020 position. And he said to me, it's like, well, Kevin, they should just drive less. And I was like,

00:33:40.220 buddy, you're riding as like majority drivers. How, how could you be so disconnected? Right. And

00:33:46.860 this individual is, is a parliamentary secondary. Um, and, and it just, for me, it's so challenging.

00:33:54.000 You know, I've, I've tried to talk to the greens as well, where I was like, Hey, help me to understand

00:33:58.600 you support Ukraine. We're aligned on that. Yes. Okay. Great. Um, don't you think it would make

00:34:04.860 sense for Canada to get our natural gas to tide water so that the world buys it from us instead

00:34:12.500 of Russia? And also, by the way, gives us the revenue and the money to fund the advancements

00:34:19.240 in the industry that you want to put more money in. And, you know, they'll follow my fact pattern

00:34:25.540 there and be like, yes, yes. Up and until building more in Canada. And it just, they just like flip

00:34:32.260 the table. And I'm just like, I don't understand it. It breaks the brain when you go that far.

00:34:36.180 How do you reconcile that? Right. And, and that, those are the people where I think, you know,

00:34:40.120 I, at a personal level, I can get along with, I think, majority of people, but when it comes

00:34:44.680 to these positions, they're just so ideological and I don't get it. Um, the other one, um, you know,

00:34:50.280 and you brought her up, um, Yara Sacks. Yes. Um, you know, let's park the context of the Jewish

00:34:56.340 community for a moment and just look at safe supply and the ideological fixation with giving

00:35:02.040 out drugs that are proven to not only, uh, you know, within the euphemism of harm reduction,

00:35:08.720 but really is harm facilitation. Not only now for the users themselves, because harm reduction without

00:35:14.700 treatment doesn't break the cycle of addiction. Um, it's now wreaking havoc in local communities,

00:35:20.260 that host these sites, including, uh, my, my riding is home to, or immediately adjacent to every

00:35:26.940 single of these injection sites in the city of Toronto. And they are just have become kind of

00:35:34.420 these magnets of, of not just penny crime, but now drug dealers and it's needles are being found

00:35:40.920 everywhere. Uh, you know, people who sadly die from overdose being found at their bodies being found

00:35:46.960 at children's playgrounds. Right. And, you know, I try to raise this, you know, um, there's a question

00:35:54.040 I raised, um, in the house specifically around safe supply where experts, clinicians special specializing

00:36:01.240 in addiction medicine, we're trying to sound the alarm to the minister of mental health and

00:36:06.100 addiction, Yara Sacks. And she turns around, she starts, you know, lambasting and yelling at me, 0.99

00:36:10.520 how dare you? People are dying. And I was like, yeah, I know people are dying, you know, and your

00:36:16.060 safe supply strategy has not reversed the trend. The amount of people dying keeps going up. And yet

00:36:22.100 they have these ideological kind of blinders on and they refuse to admit that the strategy that they

00:36:28.920 have put forward is not working. They won't adapt it. Even though people are dying.

00:36:33.220 And I remember you posted about it on social media a few days ago. There was that, uh, very tense,

00:36:39.200 uh, council meeting in Richmond, British Columbia, where you had a, an Asian man who was speaking

00:36:44.000 about exactly what you're speaking about, just the concerns he has from his community about

00:36:47.980 these things. And he's yelled at for, you know, with, with all of the most, you know, horrific slurs

00:36:53.000 you could use against an immigrant, go back where you came from, you're not Canadian. And that's what 0.97

00:36:57.500 this debate has been distilled down to, that you're not allowed to say, you know what, I actually don't

00:37:01.760 like drug users on the playground my kids are, are playing on.

00:37:05.500 Yeah. It's, you know, it's sad because these are the same individuals often from the ideological

00:37:10.700 spectrum, the left that will talk about, oh, we need to be inclusive. We need to be diverse.

00:37:15.680 Up until you dare to stand up and articulate a position that they don't agree with, then all of

00:37:21.260 a sudden they'll, they'll call you any number of names. You mentioned having, you know, made some

00:37:25.620 friends in the conservative caucus. So I have to ask you the obvious question. Would you join them?

00:37:29.920 You know, that's a good question. I think if there was an opportunity to be able to,

00:37:34.440 to serve in, in the government and all polls show that, yeah, I think to consider it as

00:37:40.020 a will for the next government, who wouldn't want the opportunity to be able to contribute

00:37:43.360 and I think course correct and right the ship of the direction that Canada has been going,

00:37:48.060 which I don't think has been in steered in the right direction.

00:37:51.380 Yeah. Have you had any conversations, even informal with anyone in that party about either

00:37:55.260 joining their caucus or running for them as a candidate?

00:37:58.180 I think the door has, has always been open, uh, from, from my side. I've chatted with people

00:38:02.780 and they're like, yeah, Kevin, I think you'd fit right into caucus, but you know, it's not just up

00:38:07.060 to me. I think it's up to, to party brass and the leadership as well to, to, to find a fit and

00:38:11.780 the path.

00:38:12.260 So you've had no conversations with the, with the leadership or with people in the higher ranks?

00:38:16.900 Listen, I, I've had a chance to be able to chat with, with the leader Pierre on occasion,

00:38:20.940 on the margins. Um, I think, you know, if that's something that they want to pursue, listen,

00:38:25.220 like I said, I'm, I'm open to it.

00:38:28.300 I'm curious in a way about why, because you've had a unique experience the last four years and

00:38:33.520 that you've been unshackled by, by partisanship. And I'm wondering from the sensibilities you've,

00:38:38.080 you've shared here and, and at other interviews, whether you'd ever be comfortable going into that

00:38:42.960 partisan framework again.

00:38:44.800 No. And, and that's, that's a fair question. I think for me, I've always been, um, a team player.

00:38:50.020 That's especially in the military, you know, you operate as, as a team, uh, and you're always

00:38:55.120 stronger together. I have not had that opportunity, uh, to be able to do that. And, you know, I hope

00:39:01.840 that maybe there will be to be able to show how I could add value as part of a team. Cause, cause

00:39:08.160 the reality is if you look at what we've been able to, um, I think, uh, to be able to deliver

00:39:13.660 as an independent office, I think we've been pretty high impact, but there is only so much

00:39:18.360 you can do without the support of a party of, of a caucus with a whole network of resources.

00:39:24.400 There is, I think, a ceiling. Um, and there are a lot of challenges that Canadians are facing and

00:39:29.980 I want to be able to contribute to that.

00:39:31.720 How effectively have you been able to help your constituents on, on files? And what I mean by that

00:39:36.860 is that if you're an MP in government, you're kind of hanging out with the ministers. So you could

00:39:40.940 just go up to them and be like, Oh, you know, minister, someone in my riding and they say, Oh,

00:39:44.220 we'll look into it. And, and you don't necessarily have that. I mean, you can still try to pin a

00:39:47.600 minister down in the house of commons, but have you been able to still get progress on these

00:39:53.400 constituency files that come to your, come across your desk?

00:39:56.160 A good example, I think is during last summer, we had, um, refugees that were on the street in

00:40:02.720 Toronto. That was in my riding just down the street from my office. And so that's something that

00:40:08.020 I think I was able to raise in a way that no other liberal MP would have been able to do so and,

00:40:15.240 and raise awareness and highlight for media, the issues and the gaps in terms of, Hey,

00:40:22.920 the federal government, despite my warnings had decided to cut money, uh, for refugees and shelters

00:40:29.620 at large, um, completely. And I raised the alarm both in March, April, and May, and they ignored it.

00:40:36.000 And what we're seeing now in the summer is a direct consequence of that. Right. And ultimately

00:40:40.640 we were able to shame the government into doing the right thing and stepping up and giving the city

00:40:45.480 the funding that they needed. You know, no one can really call out, uh, the hypocrisy that we see,

00:40:51.360 right. Where Justin Truro will love to claim the moral high ground of yes, I'm helping refugees and

00:40:56.440 people in need, which I think most Canadians would support, but you can't do that and say that

00:41:01.660 without actually providing the funding needed. Yeah. Right. Um, and yet they were trying to have

00:41:06.760 their cake and eat it too. And so I was in a position to be able to call that out. And,

00:41:10.980 you know, I'm happy to say that we ultimately were able to shame them into doing the right thing and

00:41:14.980 giving the city. And, and we since seen kind of the funding from the federal government flow to other

00:41:20.200 cities that are facing that onslaught of, of people. Yeah. The, the door is not, let's say opened

00:41:27.240 on the conservative party side of the equation. If you're not welcomed into that party, would you

00:41:31.220 run again as an independent? Yes. Um, I, I will run again. Um, you know, hopefully it's, it's

00:41:38.100 with the opportunity of being able to be a part of a team and contribute to that. But if that's not

00:41:43.340 the case, I will run again because I, I think we have a track record now. And I think it's important

00:41:47.580 that, um, we, we at least be another voice out there to call out particularly the hypocrisies in

00:41:55.000 different positions, um, that Canadians need to know. As I mentioned at the outset, it's not

00:42:00.760 entirely unheard of for independence to win. There was a, in Ontario last election, Bobby Ann

00:42:05.480 Brady that, uh, won in Haldeman Norfolk as an independent. I think famously at the federal

00:42:09.700 level, Jody Wilson-Raybould in, in Vancouver, Granville. Uh, you know, when you see the history

00:42:15.100 of, of independence winning, is there any lesson that you take from that, uh, on what would let you

00:42:21.320 beat the odds if you do have to stand for, for reelection as an independent? Uh, I think

00:42:26.620 Andrew, the reality is the odds aren't in my favor. Um, it's not easy. There are a lot

00:42:32.100 of systemic barriers. Like I can't, for example, um, raise money in between, uh, elections or

00:42:38.600 writ periods as any other MP in a party would be able to do. Um, anyone who might want to donate,

00:42:44.300 uh, to a riding association that actually my team and I are in the midst of starting, um,

00:42:49.660 can donate, but they won't get a tax receipt. Hmm. Right. And that's. So you, you can actually

00:42:54.520 have an independent riding association. I wasn't aware of that. Um, but, but it, there isn't,

00:42:59.360 the weird thing is there aren't any rules that say I can't do it. Uh, it's just that, you know,

00:43:04.400 I guess the Canadian bureaucrat, uh, kind of instinct is if there are no rules saying that

00:43:09.460 I can't explicitly do it, they just assume I can't do it. So you almost need to create like

00:43:13.200 the Kevin Vong party and run as the candidate for Kevin Vong. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so, you know,

00:43:18.940 it's, it's interesting kind of going through that experience right now. And I, I think Canadian 0.99

00:43:24.660 democracy more broadly would probably benefit from a little bit more independence within the parties.

00:43:30.800 I think that's a good thing. I think the UK is a prime example of that, where there is a lot more

00:43:35.980 independence within parties for MPs to be able to speak up. And you can see that on my voting records.

00:43:41.480 Sometimes I do vote with the government, uh, more increasingly I vote against, but that is

00:43:46.740 largely really driven by what my constituents, uh, positions are. They will call in, they will

00:43:52.820 write in about different positions. And in the absence of them having a particular yes or no,

00:43:57.520 or in support of or not, uh, my team and I will sit back and assess the merits of the policy or the

00:44:03.840 bill and, and vote accordingly. Would that be your ideal scenario that, you know, we still keep

00:44:08.620 political parties, but the parties themselves loosen the, the, the stranglehold that they have

00:44:13.900 over their, their caucus members. So I think conceptually, yes. Um, and, and I only say

00:44:20.100 conceptually because I haven't had the experience of being part of a party to be able to say like,

00:44:24.060 I'm, I'm really going based off of what people tell me in terms of what their, their kind of

00:44:28.960 party experience has been. And so you can kind of see it when everyone is standing up and voting in

00:44:33.640 a certain way, when, you know, you've had conversations with so-and-so that they might not

00:44:37.400 be too, too jazzed about that. Yeah. So it's interesting because I, I, you know, whenever there's a vote

00:44:42.200 and I, and I sit at my desk and, and my, my desk, um, is, is beside the greens and, and the liberals.

00:44:48.440 And I remember one liberal member who would come in and so for, in advance of every vote,

00:44:53.860 the pages would go around, they put a piece of paper on, on every desk of the liberals,

00:44:58.240 essentially telling them how to vote. And he would always come. I always cracked up when he said he

00:45:01.980 would kind of, he was right beside me. He'd go to his desk, he would look down and be like, oh,

00:45:05.740 it looks like I've made up my mind. Um, and I think a lot of Canadians don't realize that that's,

00:45:12.200 actually how currently a lot of the, the votes happen, right? They are largely whipped.

00:45:18.660 I think every party does it, um, you know, to the conservatives credit, cause I've seen their

00:45:23.640 paper too. It at least articulates their rationale for why they vote the way they do. Uh, which I

00:45:29.500 think is a step up from what the liberals are, which is like, you're either in favor or you're

00:45:33.380 not no thinking required. Yeah. So maybe, maybe one little minor thing that we could do is just

00:45:38.420 ban pieces of paper. Get, or take the printers out of the house of commons and then every MP has to

00:45:42.420 make up their mind, but that's the pipe dream, I guess. Well, it's interesting because, you know,

00:45:46.320 sometimes like there are different, uh, opposition motions. And I remember there was a conservative

00:45:50.340 motion saying that Canada should, um, uh, fulfill our international commitment to NATO and hit 2%.

00:45:58.400 And the liberal instinct always is, you know, if it's a conservative, it's bad. So vote against it.

00:46:03.580 Don't even listen to the policy. It's opposition motion. No. However, this time they actually decided

00:46:08.800 to vote with it. Um, and there was a liberal who was remote. And so I guess didn't get the piece

00:46:16.620 of paper. And so by instinct voted against it, uh, and then had to change it afterwards. And it's,

00:46:22.560 you know, it's kind of like, you know, shouldn't you be thinking, shouldn't you be at least evaluating

00:46:27.960 the, every policy, every vote on its merits, but it's not always the case.

00:46:33.540 If the supply and confidence agreement between the NDP and the liberals hold, you've got about a year

00:46:39.120 and a half left in, in your current term. What is it you'd like to achieve in that time? What's the,

00:46:44.980 the goal for you?

00:46:46.180 So for me, I think it's always been trying to stand up for, for the city. Um, I'm a Toronto MP and it's

00:46:53.160 setting up for, for the people who not only elected me, but what's good for the city writ large.

00:46:57.960 You know, when 2021, um, in that election campaign, the liberals had promised to give

00:47:04.000 Toronto, um, its due. And that's something that the 24 other liberal MPs seem to have forgotten.

00:47:11.600 Um, it's also standing up for people who are struggling to make ends meet. And so

00:47:15.640 listen, I think every MP probably wants to support the environment, um, and recognizes that there have

00:47:24.060 been challenges in the climate in Toronto. We've had flooding, um, and, and extreme rains in a way

00:47:30.780 that we never had before. We need to do that to that. Right. But what the current policy is around

00:47:35.460 the carbon tax isn't working. And so for me, that is hopefully being able to help to support that

00:47:42.200 movement. And it, it is true that the conservatives and I think Pierre Polyev are, are kind of leading the

00:47:49.020 charge on that, but I think it helps if there's an urban MP from Toronto that is also a part of that

00:47:54.760 message, which is, this is not working. Uh, the carbon tax is making it harder for more Canadians

00:48:02.100 than it's helping. We need to find another way to be able to address that. Um, as well as in a way

00:48:08.380 that helps to lift up all Canadians in our prosperity, independent member of parliament, Kevin Vong.

00:48:13.040 Thank you. Thanks for having me, Andrew. Thanks for listening to the Andrew Lawton Show. Support the

00:48:17.700 program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - February 22, 2024

Independent MP considering run for Tories

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