Is Carney REALLY better than Trudeau? I asked Danielle Smith.
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Summary
In this episode, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith joins Candice to talk about the First Ministers' meeting, her thoughts on the carbon tax, and her hopes for the future of energy development in Canada. She also talks about her hopes and dreams for the energy sector in Canada, and how she and other premiers can work with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to get things done.
Transcript
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Hi, I'm Candace Malcolm, and this is The Candace Malcolm Show. We have a very special episode for
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you today, folks. We are joined by Alberta Premier Danielle Smith. Danielle, thank you so much for
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your time. Thanks for doing this. My pleasure. So it looks like you've had an incredibly busy
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week. You were in Saskatoon earlier this week for the first ministers' meeting, and then it looks
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like you went straight to Washington, D.C. to do more negotiations. So let's start with the
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first ministers' meeting. I have to admit, I was a little surprised when I saw this headline in
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the Calgary Herald from Rick Bell saying Smith vows to work with Kearney says he is way better than
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Justin Trudeau. So can you sort of walk us through the meeting, what it was like? And it seems like
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you were quite happy with the prime minister and what came out of that meeting. Well, I think that
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the liberals almost faced annihilation in December. Six months ago, we were talking about them not
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existing at all, and they had to do a major pivot and rethink of their positions and what had brought
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them there. And clearly it was all of the anti-development, extreme environmental policy
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that was hurting people and preventing projects from getting built. So I think we saw an immediate
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pivot with the cancellation of the hated carbon tax on retail users. And now we have nine bad pieces
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of legislation that are related to that, that also have to be repealed or substantially revised if we're
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going to improve the investment climate for business. What I'm encouraged by is that the prime
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minister is talking about a national projects list, identifying projects of national priority
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that will have a fast track to approval as we're working through trying to change the legislative
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framework. And so I'm prepared to work with him on that. We have a major project we'd like to see
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built. We'd like to see a bitumen pipeline to the Northwest BC coast, probably Prince Rupert,
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coupled with the Pathways project, which is the big oil sands project that would decarbonize their
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production. And if we can get those two things together, I think that'll be a real demonstration
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that we do have a change of direction with this prime minister. So we're going to test it out
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and I'll work with him until it becomes apparent one way or the other, whether it is a true change
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of direction or not. Well, it seems like it's great to see your optimism. And I think we're all very
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hopeful that we can see major projects like this being built. Just today, Friday, the Carney government
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did introduce new legislation that would cut internal trade barriers and try to advance these
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nation building projects. I had a little chuckle when I read what this was, because it basically
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creating a new government department to try to fast track internal trade and internal pipelines. It just
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seems like such a typical liberal thing to do. Like we're going to try to try to streamline things by
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creating more bureaucracy and more government. So I'm wondering if I could get your quick reaction to
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this new proposed legislation. Well, there's no question that they are creating a new process because of
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all of the bottlenecks and drag that they have on all of their other bureaucratic processes. But that being
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said, they may be borrowing from what they're seeing in the United States with this Energy Security Council
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headed up by Interior Secretary Doug Burgum. He's got everyone at the table who has the potential to block
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any major projects so that he can find a fast track for them. And so if we're replicating that process, I think
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that's good. But in the end, if we're going to get private proponents, we can't just continue to
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maintain the laws that are suppressing private sector investment. We've got to repeal or replace
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them. And so if it means that we can get projects identified that will get exemptions so that they
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can go forward, and through that process, we learn what we need to change in the others, then it may end
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up working out. I'm just encouraged by the fact that we're now talking about mining again in all of the
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provinces. Gold mines in Manitoba, the Golden Triangle in British Columbia, more potash and
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uranium in Saskatchewan, and yes, bitumen out of Alberta. The fact that we're talking this way and
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talking about how all of us can work together to get our projects built and get our product to new
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markets, I think it's an absolute sea change in the conversation. And I think if the federal
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government is able to support us in those efforts, I think it's going to be good for all of Canada.
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Well, I want to ask you about specifically the Alberta Accord, and then you re-emphasize the sort
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of nine terrible laws. And I believe you sent a letter to Prime Minister Carney this week sort of
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outlining it, the one that you just mentioned, guaranteeing Alberta gets full access to unfettered
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oil and gas corridors to the north, including that pipeline that you mentioned. But then we also heard
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this week from British Columbia Premier David Eby saying that they won't be changing their mind on
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another BC pipeline. And of course, we've heard Mark Carney in the past saying that they will not
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impose a project on a province, that they need to build the consensus. So do you feel like we're
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heading in the right direction? Do you think that a pipeline can be built under these circumstances?
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Well, we did end up seeing two pipelines built under similar circumstances. The coastal gasoline pipeline
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did get built. The Trans Mountain pipeline did get built. Both of them were more expensive than they
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needed to be. The latter would have been better if it had been done by the private sector. But
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unfortunately, because of the investment climate, it had to be done by government. But I think that
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that's a demonstration that you can identify what the issues are and try to address them.
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And so I know that there are certain issues that developed out of the previous approach with
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Northern Gateway. There needs to be more robust equity ownership, I believe, by First Nations.
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We need to perhaps reconsider the port so that it doesn't go through the Douglas Channel at
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Kitimat. Port-au-Prince-Rupert is really more of a direct line of sight to the open sea. And then
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the issue of trying to have a lower emissions product going through it. The Pathways project
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would lower emissions. They intend to be net zero by 2050 through a combination of carbon capture,
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nuclear and hydroelectric power, and direct air capture. So I've been supportive of their approach.
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And if we can find a way to identify the objections and address them, then I don't see any reason why
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we can't get that consensus. Interesting. I want to ask you about this new Angus Reid poll that was just
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released showing that Canadians are rather dismissive of Alberta's grievances. From my perspective, a little
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bit of Ontario, and I think that Alberta has a lot of legitimate grievances, but it seems like my fellow
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Canadians in this part of the country don't agree. So when asked, do you think Alberta has been treated fairly,
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or the West, sorry, has been treated fairly? Basically, Western Canadians say, you can see the
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graph on the screen, that they say that no, 70% of Albertans say no, 74% of people in Saskatchewan say
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no. But then when you go to the eastern part of the province, it's flipped, right? So, you know, 62% in
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Ontario say yes, they're treated fairly, 77% in Quebec. And then the next question is, does Western
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Canada complain too much? 66% of people in Canada say yes, they complain too much. 57% in Quebec, 53% in
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Ontario's. Premier, I'm wondering what you make of the attitudes that seem to be coming from eastern
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Canada that think that Alberta is treated just fine and that the complaints are unwarranted?
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Well, I guess I think people need to understand that there's only two provinces that don't have
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access to a coast, and that's Alberta and Saskatchewan. It means that we have to rely on the goodwill and
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generosity of our neighbours more than any of them do. And sadly, we haven't had enough goodwill and
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generosity of our neighbours. It's been a fight on everything that we've wanted to build to the
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point now where if we had been able to build all of the pipelines that we wanted to, Energy East,
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Northern Gateway, and Keystone, we would have two and a half million barrels more per day
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of production, which would generate $55 billion of additional GDP, of which we'd probably get $17
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billion of additional revenue, and the federal government would get somewhere near that.
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So these are not inconsequential issues. I mean, I would challenge other provinces to identify
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a similar amount of projects that have been stymied or cancelled by their federal government,
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resulting in a similar amount of economic damage. I don't think that there is any.
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So maybe we have been a little more stoic than we should have about how unfair and unreasonable it
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was, but we're not being stoic and silent anymore. We're saying this is our time,
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that we need to get another pipeline built to Tidewater. If we're genuinely interested
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in getting our markets expanded, we can't keep sending everything to the United States. We have
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to build a pipeline to the East Coast of a substantial nature so that we can continue to
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develop our Asian markets. Ideally, we will also get a pipeline built to Churchill so that we would
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be able to, with icebreakers, move up and over and feed the East Coast refineries as well as get to
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Europe. But that's what nation-building projects look like. It means we work together for our mutual
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benefit. That's the spirit that I'm approaching this with. And I think it's the spirit that the
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other premiers are approaching it with as well.
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Well, I take your note that Alberta has been quite stoic in the past. And yet, you know,
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I will say the day after the federal election, I was receiving emails and notes and messages from
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people in Alberta saying, enough is enough. Now is the time to go it alone. And it's independence.
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I interviewed Preston Manning on my show, and he said that he thought that Mark Carney will be the
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last prime minister of a united Canada, which is a pretty strong and bold statement. I'm wondering,
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we saw that you made changes to the Citizens Initiative Act to lower the threshold to trigger
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a referendum. Do you think that this is a legitimate cause? And how do you see that movement playing
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out? There have already been two questions that have been filed on the new referenda thresholds,
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and both of them are related to issues of sovereignty. One saying, let's stay in Canada,
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and the other one saying, let's go it alone. So I'll watch and see which petition campaign gets the
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most signatures, and if either of them get enough to be able to be put to a vote. But my job is to see
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this very legitimate concern that Albertans have, that Canada is just not working for Alberta. We are on
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Team Canada, but Team Canada is not on Team Alberta. And the way that we can address that is by having
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these big nation-building projects that benefit everyone go ahead in a way that has not been
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possible or easy in previous years. So I want to work with the prime minister. I want to take him
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at his word that he wants to be an energy superpower on both conventional and new energy. We have the
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ability to develop both out. I know that all of the other premiers are putting forward really
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interesting mining projects that might not have been considered six months ago, but are actively
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being considered now. I think we've realized what happens if you have incredible resource wealth,
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whether it's critical minerals or uranium or gold or bitumen, and you leave it in the ground. You end
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up impoverishing your people. You end up not being able to see your standard of living and quality of
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life go up. You end up falling behind every single country in the OECD. And the only way to change that
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is to change behavior. And we've got to start developing the resources the world wants. Do
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it in an environmentally responsible way with Indigenous partners. And I think we can develop
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a new era of incredible prosperity for everyone. That's what I'm hopeful for. I think that's what
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the premiers are hopeful for. Maybe it's taking some of the people that Angus Reid pulls a little
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longer to catch up. But I think that's where the Canadian sentiment is.
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Well, I do love the optimism there, Premier. I wanted to ask you about your trip to Washington,
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D.C. The headlines were saying that you saw a breakthrough in your discussions with the
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Americans. You mentioned Doug Burgum earlier in the discussion. So can you walk us through
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what's happening with that? There are a number of projects that are being proposed to get more
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pipeline access into the United States. And I think the race is on for which one is going to
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emerge as the initial proponent and the initial approved project. And the Americans are very keen
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to fast track, as I mentioned with that energy council. But I think that that's something that
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Canadians have to be mindful of. What does it say to Alberta if it's easier for us to trade with the
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United States than to trade with each other? What does it say to Albertans if we continue to have
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provinces block our projects while Americans embrace them? I think that that would be moving in the
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wrong direction. What I hear and my takeaway from the last election was that people want a more
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moderate government that is going to be supportive of these economic interests. And so, as I say,
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I think the race is on because there are a number of projects that could potentially be approved and
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go ahead in the United States. My priority, though, would be getting that new pipeline to the northwest
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BC coast because I think that would do so much to not only improve the wealth of Canadians, but it also
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would ensure that we get new markets, which is absolutely essential to ensure that we don't
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continue to be reliant on the United States. Well, forget about politics for a moment. I think all of
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Canada is definitely behind Edmonton right now with the Oilers heading into the finals. I think it's
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game two tonight. I know you're from Southern Alberta, Premier. So can you confirm, will you be
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cheering for the Oilers and what do you think is going to happen? Always. I grew up in an Oilers family.
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And so, you know, my brother hates it when I say it, but he cried when Wayne Gretzky was traded.
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And then I was also, after that, a Flames fan because we took it to the Cup in 89. I'm one of
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these true, I call it a unicorn, that I'm an Albertan who really does root for both teams.
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So it just so happens that the team that's making it the furthest is the Oilers this year for the
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second time. And we're all very hopeful that they're going to bring the Cup home and make all Canadians proud.
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Excellent. Well, Premier Smith, thank you so much for your time and your insight.
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We really appreciate you joining the show today.
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All right. Thanks so much, folks. We'll see you back on Monday. I'm
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Candice Malcolm. This is Candice Malcolm's show. Thank you and God bless.