Juno News - Is Justin Trudeau losing his grip on reality？

00:00:00.000 Justin Trudeau insists on vilifying Canadians who don't agree with him.

00:00:04.060 I'm Candace Malcolm and this is The Candace Malcolm Show.

00:00:10.060 Hi everyone, thank you so much for tuning into the podcast.

00:00:13.020 This is becoming a theme here on The Candace Malcolm Show,

00:00:15.520 is that Justin Trudeau sees the world in a very black and white way.

00:00:19.100 According to Trudeau and according to his rhetoric,

00:00:21.340 which really he's heated up as of late,

00:00:23.180 we heard it throughout the election campaign

00:00:25.200 and now that we're back in lockdown,

00:00:26.880 Trudeau is sort of lashing out again

00:00:28.700 and his rhetoric is very angry

00:00:30.580 and according to him, everything that's wrong in the world,

00:00:33.660 all the ills of society and the entire reason why we're in lockdown,

00:00:36.580 not just lockdown, the reason why we have cues in our healthcare system,

00:00:39.420 the reason why people aren't getting proper care

00:00:41.300 when it comes to other illnesses like cancer,

00:00:43.400 it's all simply because of the unvaccinated.

00:00:46.100 If only those people would change their minds,

00:00:48.520 come around to his point of view, get vaccinated,

00:00:50.740 this whole thing would be behind us.

00:00:52.600 Well, that's a bit simplistic thinking

00:00:54.080 and to get into it a little bit more,

00:00:56.180 I am joined by a longtime journalist

00:00:58.480 and columnist with the Toronto Sun.

00:01:00.260 I'm talking about Laurie Goldstein.

00:01:02.060 Laurie Goldstein began his career with the Sun back in 1978,

00:01:05.740 starting out as a general assignment reporter.

00:01:07.980 He's covered politics at City Hall in Toronto,

00:01:10.580 as well as Crean's Park,

00:01:11.740 where he was the Toronto Sun's columnist

00:01:13.500 and burial chief from 1985 to 1990.

00:01:16.440 Laurie has held a variety of positions at the Sun,

00:01:18.320 including city editor, associate editor,

00:01:20.820 and comment editor.

00:01:21.620 Laurie Goldstein, welcome to the program.

00:01:23.240 Thank you so much for joining us.

00:01:24.600 Thank you for having me, Candice.

00:01:25.860 Well, you've seen it all

00:01:28.400 and you've been covering politics for a very long time.

00:01:31.420 So I want to ask you your opinion on the prime minister,

00:01:35.420 on his approach, his communication approach,

00:01:38.160 as well as his handling in general of the pandemic.

00:01:42.020 And why do you think we're seeing him get so angry

00:01:44.680 and lash out so much at the unvaccinated here in Canada?

00:01:48.440 Well, I think it's political and it's unfortunate.

00:01:51.040 The Trudeau government has polls both internally

00:01:54.420 and externally that shows that a lot of Canadians

00:01:58.100 are angry at the unvaccinated.

00:02:00.400 And so he's playing to that.

00:02:02.760 To me, that's not what a leader is supposed to do.

00:02:05.000 A leader in a time of crisis is supposed

00:02:06.640 to bring people together.

00:02:08.780 But it's beyond that.

00:02:10.940 Sometimes he makes a distinction

00:02:12.520 between people who are genuinely vaccine hesitant

00:02:15.520 and people who have medical exemptions

00:02:19.660 and children who can't be vaccinated,

00:02:22.580 very young children.

00:02:23.880 Sometimes he doesn't.

00:02:25.380 Sometimes, as you said,

00:02:26.660 it's just this tsunami of anger

00:02:29.400 directed at the unvaccinated.

00:02:32.080 And to me, that's wrong.

00:02:34.320 It's wrong on the facts.

00:02:36.020 And it's not what we need as a country.

00:02:38.240 Abacus Data, who's a pollster,

00:02:41.900 who's hardly critical of the Liberals,

00:02:45.000 did some very interesting polling over the summer.

00:02:48.440 And it found that the people

00:02:50.720 who don't want to be vaccinated are into two groups.

00:02:53.860 One of them are what we call the vaccine hesitant.

00:02:56.740 That may be a bad term.

00:02:58.020 Maybe call it vaccine skeptics.

00:03:00.340 And the other is people

00:03:01.480 who are what we would call anti-vaxxers.

00:03:03.700 They will never get vaccinated.

00:03:05.620 But half of that group, millions of Canadians,

00:03:08.240 are people who are genuinely concerned

00:03:11.560 about their health when it comes to the vaccines.

00:03:16.740 Abacus Data found they are not ideologues.

00:03:19.500 They vote along the same lines as in elections

00:03:22.920 as they stand on this issue.

00:03:26.920 They're just genuinely skeptical of government in general,

00:03:30.560 more so than I guess the average person.

00:03:32.840 And they have legitimate concerns.

00:03:36.100 And they're the group we can reach.

00:03:37.400 They're the group.

00:03:38.920 So in other words, we can probably cut by half

00:03:40.840 the 4 million Canadians who aren't getting vaccinated

00:03:43.680 if we keep sending the right messages to them.

00:03:46.700 When I wrote that column,

00:03:48.380 people thought that it would be,

00:03:49.840 I would get a negative reaction.

00:03:51.140 I got an enormously positive reaction.

00:03:53.720 And I had heartbreaking emails

00:03:55.860 from people who were denied access

00:03:59.180 to their family over Christmas,

00:04:00.640 even though they agreed to be tested.

00:04:03.800 And when you look at their concerns,

00:04:06.860 these were not crazy people.

00:04:09.520 They were people who had watched

00:04:11.140 what the government told them.

00:04:13.160 And a lot of it didn't jive

00:04:15.000 with what they were seeing and what happened.

00:04:17.780 Now, the other part of my column was to say

00:04:20.060 that Prime Minister Trudeau

00:04:22.380 and Ontario Premier Doug Ford

00:04:24.860 have contributed to this vaccine hesitancy.

00:04:27.340 How have they contributed to it?

00:04:29.560 Okay.

00:04:30.480 Well, a lot of information has now come out.

00:04:33.460 For example,

00:04:34.180 one of the original things that caused an uproar,

00:04:36.900 the Public Health Agency of Canada saying

00:04:38.600 it would be worse to wear masks,

00:04:42.140 less safe than wearing vaccines.

00:04:44.800 And then it did a complete about face.

00:04:47.900 Now we know

00:04:48.700 that when the Public Health Agency of Canada

00:04:50.820 was telling us not to wear vaccines,

00:04:53.160 there was a-

00:04:54.100 Wear masks, I think you mean-

00:04:55.200 Wear masks, I'm sorry, wear masks.

00:04:57.040 There was a critical shortage of masks

00:04:58.880 and personal protection equipment

00:05:00.900 in the country

00:05:02.100 because the Public Health Agency of Canada

00:05:05.360 had ignored warnings for more than a decade

00:05:07.940 to make sure we had secure stockpiles

00:05:10.380 of masks, ventilators, all those things.

00:05:13.560 And the provincial governments had failed as well.

00:05:16.580 So in other words,

00:05:17.900 that wasn't a thing based on science.

00:05:20.680 It was that there was a shortage

00:05:21.960 and they needed to preserve the masks

00:05:26.100 for people who were healthcare workers.

00:05:27.720 Now, if they told people the truth,

00:05:29.820 then people would have understood that.

00:05:31.240 Well, okay, you screwed up,

00:05:32.760 but we got to deal with this,

00:05:33.760 so let's deal with it now.

00:05:37.120 Well, the efficacy versus the efficiency of vaccines.

00:05:42.020 Remember when we were all told at the start

00:05:43.440 that their efficacy rate was 90%.

00:05:46.960 Efficacy doesn't mean efficiency.

00:05:49.420 Efficacy is what happens

00:05:51.320 when you have ideal conditions

00:05:52.580 with a test group and a placebo group,

00:05:55.100 and you're making sure

00:05:56.000 that all of them are following the instructions

00:05:57.640 and yada, yada, yada.

00:05:59.600 Efficiency is what happens in the real world.

00:06:01.780 And what we see now

00:06:02.820 is that efficiency is very different from efficacy.

00:06:06.620 And I want to be clear,

00:06:07.740 I've taken my vaccines,

00:06:08.980 I've taken the booster shot,

00:06:10.180 I think people should,

00:06:11.920 but as you're discussing on this show,

00:06:15.500 it's what our leadership has been doing to us.

00:06:17.960 Remember when they said to us,

00:06:20.440 closing the borders won't do any good.

00:06:22.760 The vaccine doesn't respect borders.

00:06:27.960 Quarantines, bringing in people from planes coming in, 1.00

00:06:30.920 that's really not going to help

00:06:32.040 because it's already here.

00:06:33.440 We now know that when they were saying that

00:06:36.480 from documents that have since been released,

00:06:38.760 that when the government was saying that,

00:06:40.260 it was being advised by its own experts,

00:06:43.720 you don't have the capacity

00:06:44.940 to do quarantines at the airport.

00:06:48.840 You don't have the capacity to check everyone out.

00:06:52.080 So again, that's not,

00:06:54.460 they weren't honest and truthful with us.

00:06:56.920 Just tell us that,

00:06:58.240 look, we have the largest unguarded border in the world.

00:07:02.400 We have people coming in from all over the world.

00:07:04.780 We don't have the capacity, but they didn't.

00:07:07.000 They argued it was bad to do.

00:07:09.320 And now we know that countries that did it,

00:07:11.820 admittedly, many of them islands like Taiwan,

00:07:14.700 which did better than anybody in the world,

00:07:16.960 did this from the day they knew

00:07:19.180 that the Chinese government

00:07:20.940 was talking about a SARS-like virus.

00:07:23.340 That was December 30th, 2020.

00:07:26.740 And they moved right away

00:07:28.560 and they had better data than we did and all those things.

00:07:30.720 But what I'm saying is that these things

00:07:32.740 contribute to vaccine hesitancy.

00:07:35.840 You remember when the prime minister

00:07:37.340 and many others,

00:07:39.180 Premier Ford and many politicians said,

00:07:41.540 the best vaccine is the first vaccine you can get.

00:07:45.320 And then the National Action Committee,

00:07:46.980 National Action Committee on Immunization,

00:07:49.520 Advisory Committee,

00:07:50.820 went, well, no, actually Pfizer and Moderna

00:07:53.460 are better than AZ

00:07:54.660 because AZ might clot your blood.

00:07:57.000 And then the chairman of NACI goes on national television

00:07:59.940 and says that if her sister died

00:08:02.240 from a blood clot from AZ,

00:08:04.560 she could never live with herself.

00:08:07.760 But that if COVID was really rampant in your community,

00:08:12.360 then you should take AZ.

00:08:14.580 So as many people observed,

00:08:16.380 so now they're telling us to take the bad one

00:08:18.580 in the places where the vaccines are most needed.

00:08:22.680 I took AstraZeneca

00:08:25.280 and I went through hoops

00:08:27.320 to get my second dose of AstraZeneca

00:08:29.480 when the government was telling us,

00:08:31.200 no, we're stopping those for first

00:08:32.820 and we're stopping them for second.

00:08:35.600 And I'm like, what are you doing?

00:08:37.080 I've read the stuff on the risk.

00:08:40.740 It's the one I took first.

00:08:42.420 I did it because I was a good citizen.

00:08:44.660 I listened to you when you said,

00:08:46.500 you know, we were the early ones, right?

00:08:48.260 We were the early guinea pigs.

00:08:49.240 So we got the first vaccines, right?

00:08:51.320 Now you're changing the rules.

00:08:53.060 You're telling me I made a mistake.

00:08:55.480 You're trying to deny me access to the one.

00:08:58.480 Now you tell me to take another one.

00:09:00.000 No, that wasn't the deal.

00:09:02.620 And having said that,

00:09:03.740 I've since been boosted with Pfizer

00:09:05.720 because now I think there's been a lot more data

00:09:07.240 and I'm more comfortable.

00:09:08.720 But to not think that decisions like that

00:09:11.460 by all governments in Canada

00:09:12.980 didn't contribute to people

00:09:14.540 who were already hesitant for their own reasons,

00:09:16.900 who may have had bad reactions to flu vaccines,

00:09:20.320 to sort of dismiss those people

00:09:23.060 as the people that are now forcing people

00:09:25.700 not to have cancer surgeries.

00:09:28.940 I don't want to overstate it,

00:09:32.100 but to me, politically, that is evil.

00:09:35.200 This is a much more complicated issue than that.

00:09:37.920 There are people, I agree,

00:09:39.580 the ones who go and protest outside hospitals,

00:09:41.880 you know, and stop political meetings

00:09:45.280 and throw rocks at the prime minister or pebbles.

00:09:48.400 That's insane.

00:09:49.680 And we all agree with that.

00:09:51.600 But this is a nuanced problem.

00:09:55.060 And to me, the reason Trudeau's doing it

00:09:58.080 is he's very smart politically.

00:10:00.620 He knows that if this thing gets worse

00:10:02.860 and worse and worse,

00:10:04.120 people are going to look for scapegoats

00:10:07.640 and the scapegoat will be him and the premiers.

00:10:10.380 So very early on,

00:10:11.660 he's establishing this idea

00:10:13.080 that all of the problems we've had,

00:10:15.540 all of the failures,

00:10:17.040 all of the misinformation,

00:10:18.680 all of the fact that we were late

00:10:20.240 in getting vaccines

00:10:21.080 because the Trudeau government

00:10:22.340 was, for reasons no one understands,

00:10:25.260 thinking that it would be a good idea

00:10:26.720 to have a Chinese company do our vaccines.

00:10:29.180 At the same time,

00:10:29.880 they were holding Canadians hostage.

00:10:32.000 They were committing genocide with the Uyghurs. 1.00

00:10:33.840 They were threatening Taiwan, 1.00

00:10:37.780 all that stuff.

00:10:40.000 And his government was negotiating with,

00:10:43.540 and it wasn't, to fairness,

00:10:44.560 it wasn't the company that screwed it up.

00:10:47.940 It was the Chinese government.

00:10:50.500 And they knew that had happened

00:10:52.840 for months and months,

00:10:53.580 but they didn't say anything.

00:10:54.840 Then they announced it.

00:10:56.340 And then they said,

00:10:57.320 and then, so people made the logical conclusion.

00:10:59.440 Well, you were late to the party getting vaccines

00:11:01.640 because you idiotically thought 0.88

00:11:03.300 this was a good idea.

00:11:05.540 All those things are why we are here today.

00:11:08.140 And there have been failures

00:11:09.220 in the provinces, no doubt.

00:11:10.680 You know, they didn't take this seriously.

00:11:12.680 And at first, at the beginning of the rollout,

00:11:14.220 they weren't prepared.

00:11:15.000 When they finally started getting the vaccines,

00:11:17.140 they did a bad job of getting them out.

00:11:19.500 So the point is that

00:11:20.780 all these are the reasons we're here today.

00:11:23.200 And this is happening in every country.

00:11:25.680 It's not because unvaccinated people in Canada

00:11:28.400 are uniquely evil.

00:11:29.820 This is happening all over the world.

00:11:32.260 This is what they, you know,

00:11:33.220 they call a wicked problem.

00:11:35.300 And so this is not a time, in my view,

00:11:37.720 that you divide Canadians.

00:11:39.780 You try to reach out to them as much as you can

00:11:42.680 to try to bring people together as much as you can.

00:11:46.380 That's what great leaders do.

00:11:48.400 That's what John F. Kennedy did.

00:11:51.620 That's what in Ontario,

00:11:53.100 I would say Bill Davis tried to do.

00:11:55.760 He didn't segment off the,

00:11:57.520 and one of the chief liberal strategists

00:12:00.460 during the federal election after it

00:12:02.100 boasted about the fact

00:12:03.920 that they had successfully hived off

00:12:05.840 slices of the Canadian population

00:12:08.600 so they could win an election

00:12:10.520 with the lowest level of popular support

00:12:12.680 in Canadian history.

00:12:14.120 And that that was a good thing.

00:12:15.900 That slicing off those little things

00:12:17.920 and appealing to this group

00:12:19.140 and making this group hate this group,

00:12:21.040 that's how we won.

00:12:22.540 Well, he's doing the same thing now.

00:12:25.600 Well, it's like the balkanization of our country.

00:12:27.880 It's not going to last

00:12:28.480 if you continue to just openly pit people against people

00:12:31.180 and pit them against each other.

00:12:32.840 Lauren, I think you did a great job

00:12:33.860 of explaining all the many reasons

00:12:35.660 why one might be skeptical or hesitant

00:12:38.220 or at least say like,

00:12:39.480 hey, let's wait and see.

00:12:40.380 You know, I think it'd be perfectly reasonable

00:12:42.680 to say, let's just wait and see

00:12:44.420 how this vaccine rollout goes

00:12:45.860 for the exact reasons you laid out.

00:12:47.440 You know, my husband and I were keen

00:12:48.740 to get vaccinated

00:12:49.460 because we just wanted to go back to normal.

00:12:51.580 We were down in Florida

00:12:52.260 and our plan was to get

00:12:53.240 the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

00:12:55.500 We want it to be one and done.

00:12:57.080 And we literally,

00:12:58.340 we had our appointment scheduled.

00:13:00.740 We were in Florida

00:13:01.480 when Florida Governor Ron DeSantos

00:13:04.400 and the U.S. CDC

00:13:05.560 banned Johnson & Johnson.

00:13:07.740 So they were pulling it

00:13:08.400 because of concerns about adverse reactions.

00:13:11.940 And so, you know,

00:13:12.820 those are the kind of things

00:13:14.100 that would make you sort of pause saying,

00:13:16.240 you know, I'm glad I didn't get it

00:13:17.120 because now they're saying it's not safe

00:13:18.620 even though, you know,

00:13:19.880 six hours ago

00:13:20.660 they were insisting that it was safe.

00:13:22.320 And then there's another layer

00:13:23.640 on top of that

00:13:24.340 that you didn't mention,

00:13:25.460 but this is the social media censorship

00:13:27.160 that we have seen,

00:13:28.300 which just, in my view,

00:13:29.740 further fuels the hesitancy

00:13:32.580 and the skepticism.

00:13:33.860 If you sow any kind of doubt

00:13:36.140 about the safety of vaccines,

00:13:37.620 if you ask questions,

00:13:38.560 if you raise valid medical concerns,

00:13:40.680 if you look at the way

00:13:41.980 that the trials were run

00:13:45.140 and you ask scientifically

00:13:46.500 legitimate questions about that,

00:13:48.440 you get kicked off of Twitter,

00:13:49.680 you get banned from YouTube,

00:13:50.820 you get your page removed from Facebook.

00:13:53.820 And so, you know,

00:13:54.660 the fact that we have

00:13:55.360 all of these sort of forces

00:13:56.580 conspiring to silence

00:13:58.740 one side of the conversation

00:13:59.940 and then we have people

00:14:01.380 like Justin Trudeau demonizing them,

00:14:03.760 I think we're in a tough place

00:14:06.540 as a country,

00:14:07.520 as a society right now, Laurie.

00:14:09.360 I mean, the people that I talk to

00:14:11.020 who are vaccine hesitant

00:14:13.000 and don't want to take this drug

00:14:14.980 or worried that their kids

00:14:16.100 are going to be forced to,

00:14:16.900 they're upset about schools

00:14:17.820 getting canceled once again.

00:14:19.400 I mean, they have legitimate feelings,

00:14:21.320 I think, of feeling bullied

00:14:23.340 and persecuted and singled out.

00:14:25.380 And I know a lot of Canadians

00:14:26.780 in that situation

00:14:27.660 are talking about up

00:14:28.520 and leaving the country

00:14:29.360 because they just don't feel

00:14:31.040 safe and comfortable.

00:14:32.160 I mean, what a sort of sad reflection

00:14:34.340 on our country.

00:14:35.800 What do you think the way out of this?

00:14:37.840 How can we sort of heal these,

00:14:40.100 mend these wounds

00:14:41.360 and move forward post-COVID

00:14:43.360 if that ever does happen?

00:14:45.080 But what do you think

00:14:46.040 should be done here?

00:14:47.500 I don't think our politicians,

00:14:48.880 given their record,

00:14:49.520 can do anything.

00:14:51.540 It has to be our civility

00:14:54.560 towards one another.

00:14:55.820 It has to be that we all live together

00:14:57.840 in a social contract.

00:15:00.020 It has to be that,

00:15:01.360 and look, you know,

00:15:02.380 let's be honest.

00:15:03.360 I mean, I was much a part

00:15:05.460 of this as anybody.

00:15:06.480 I think I mentioned

00:15:07.220 that one of the,

00:15:07.860 I think the great failures

00:15:08.820 of our industry

00:15:10.400 was at the beginning

00:15:11.320 not to explain

00:15:12.500 that 90% efficacy

00:15:13.880 didn't mean 90% efficiency.

00:15:16.980 It didn't mean 9 out of 10 people

00:15:18.540 weren't going to get it.

00:15:19.900 It meant in ideal conditions,

00:15:22.360 that's about as good

00:15:23.920 as it can get.

00:15:25.180 And then, of course,

00:15:25.760 there were the game changers.

00:15:27.280 The fact that we learned

00:15:29.060 that even if you've been vaccinated,

00:15:31.400 you can transmit it

00:15:32.440 to other people.

00:15:34.160 Although that these are not vaccines

00:15:36.160 like measles vaccines,

00:15:37.600 where if you're vaccinated,

00:15:39.160 you can go to a room full of people

00:15:40.900 who will have measles

00:15:42.120 and you're all likely

00:15:43.380 not going to get it.

00:15:44.620 That doesn't mean

00:15:45.040 the vaccines were bad.

00:15:47.580 I mean, you know,

00:15:48.700 obviously there was a goal

00:15:50.360 to this is going to kill

00:15:51.160 a lot of people.

00:15:51.820 We've got to make them

00:15:52.400 so that it will make people less sick.

00:15:54.260 And they certainly,

00:15:55.060 I agree to that.

00:15:57.080 But my concern is always

00:15:59.840 that you can make,

00:16:00.980 you can make societal changes

00:16:03.360 that damage us for decades to come

00:16:05.560 in the space of a few months.

00:16:08.580 You can establish

00:16:09.540 a level of distrust

00:16:10.940 that Canadians might have

00:16:13.260 of their government

00:16:13.960 and more important

00:16:15.320 that they might have

00:16:15.920 of each other

00:16:16.460 that will supersede the pandemic

00:16:19.460 because we'll get over this pandemic.

00:16:21.120 All pandemics end.

00:16:23.280 It's similar to what

00:16:24.080 I always say to people

00:16:25.060 when years ago

00:16:26.080 there was a teacher strike

00:16:27.080 and the son was,

00:16:29.580 the paper I worked for

00:16:30.340 was against the strike.

00:16:31.580 And I had all kinds

00:16:32.460 of teachers phoning me

00:16:33.340 and saying,

00:16:33.660 I don't want to strike.

00:16:34.400 I don't want to go out.

00:16:35.260 This is ridiculous.

00:16:36.060 What do I do?

00:16:37.160 And I told them go out.

00:16:38.760 And they said,

00:16:39.660 but your paper is saying,

00:16:41.040 you know,

00:16:41.660 that there shouldn't be a strike.

00:16:43.240 I said, yes,

00:16:44.340 but if you don't go out,

00:16:46.380 your life will be hell.

00:16:48.720 When after the,

00:16:49.640 this will be resolved

00:16:50.460 in two weeks

00:16:51.280 and in a month,

00:16:52.260 if you don't go out with them,

00:16:54.420 and sadly,

00:16:55.540 some people,

00:16:56.200 I know that happened to,

00:16:57.360 they were ostracized.

00:16:58.700 So that's the concern for me

00:17:00.320 beyond what's happening right now,

00:17:02.220 the churn and the yelling

00:17:03.320 and this and the that.

00:17:05.180 It's that we may,

00:17:07.040 I think Canadians

00:17:08.080 have always been good

00:17:09.160 at acting with each other.

00:17:11.240 When Quebec gets hit

00:17:12.200 by the ice storm,

00:17:13.240 I don't think the vast majority

00:17:14.420 of Canadians objected

00:17:15.520 to sending in help

00:17:16.940 when there was flooding in BC.

00:17:18.820 I don't think the vast majority

00:17:20.060 of Canadians,

00:17:20.960 you know,

00:17:21.160 we didn't have that,

00:17:22.460 what they call in the states,

00:17:23.680 I guess,

00:17:23.940 the blue state,

00:17:24.980 red state division.

00:17:26.860 But under the liberals,

00:17:28.740 I think we're starting

00:17:29.900 to have a sort of

00:17:31.420 Western Canada,

00:17:33.400 Eastern Canada thing

00:17:34.900 that's always been there.

00:17:36.020 But I think,

00:17:36.520 I think it's now getting

00:17:37.440 to an very unfortunate level.

00:17:40.560 And, you know,

00:17:41.700 when you look at our country,

00:17:43.280 we're in,

00:17:43.700 we're in an unlikely country.

00:17:46.460 We have, what,

00:17:47.480 second largest manlasts

00:17:48.440 in the world,

00:17:49.340 a very small population,

00:17:51.100 mostly right around the border.

00:17:53.040 And so it's important

00:17:54.120 that our interprovincial

00:17:56.460 and national ties stay strong.

00:17:59.560 And so that to me

00:18:00.980 is the danger

00:18:01.580 of the kind of rhetoric

00:18:02.640 that the prime minister is using.

00:18:06.060 He's done it, by the way.

00:18:06.980 This isn't the first time.

00:18:08.360 He did it in August

00:18:09.260 during the election.

00:18:10.440 And he blamed Aaron O'Toole

00:18:12.860 for these demonstrations

00:18:14.400 that were disrupting his thing.

00:18:16.460 Aaron O'Toole had in fact said,

00:18:18.180 as soon as they happened,

00:18:19.220 that's wrong,

00:18:19.920 stop doing it.

00:18:20.820 You have no place

00:18:21.440 in the Conservative Party

00:18:22.280 if you're trying to shut down

00:18:23.520 the prime minister of Canada speaking.

00:18:25.120 And yet Trudeau still blamed him

00:18:27.080 because they knew

00:18:28.740 that that was a popular thing to do,

00:18:30.860 to find a villain.

00:18:32.260 You know what it is.

00:18:33.100 When things are scary,

00:18:34.320 you want a scapegoat, right?

00:18:36.140 So it's the unvaccinated.

00:18:37.800 The problem is,

00:18:38.740 and I'm not making a direct comparison,

00:18:40.600 but we've seen in history

00:18:41.960 what can happen

00:18:42.740 when a particular segment

00:18:44.200 of the population

00:18:45.020 is blamed for everything,

00:18:47.580 is blamed for,

00:18:48.940 is blamed for willfully

00:18:51.960 not doing something

00:18:52.980 that they could do,

00:18:53.920 that the solution is just

00:18:55.420 if these people

00:18:56.220 don't do this anymore.

00:18:57.920 We've seen what can happen.

00:18:59.800 And it's a scary prospect.

00:19:04.540 Well, absolutely.

00:19:05.380 And I would put,

00:19:06.480 I mean,

00:19:06.660 I completely agree

00:19:07.760 with the criticism

00:19:09.420 you have about Trudeau

00:19:10.460 and how he's made

00:19:11.600 the country more divided.

00:19:12.660 I mean,

00:19:13.060 after his victory in 2019,

00:19:14.980 we saw the rise

00:19:15.940 of both the Bloc Quebecois

00:19:17.600 gaining back a lot

00:19:18.720 of the ground

00:19:19.240 that they had lost

00:19:19.800 in previous elections,

00:19:20.620 as well as a new

00:19:21.820 sort of Wexit movement

00:19:22.780 of people in Alberta

00:19:24.280 and Western Canada

00:19:24.900 who just sort of fed up

00:19:25.740 with his anti-energy policies.

00:19:28.840 But part of the problem

00:19:30.860 is Trudeau.

00:19:31.720 And part of the problem,

00:19:32.820 in my mind,

00:19:33.300 is the media

00:19:33.760 and the way they cover it.

00:19:34.520 And I know you commented

00:19:35.740 on this sort of

00:19:36.800 high-profile exit

00:19:38.640 from the CBC,

00:19:39.600 a journalist named

00:19:40.540 Tara Henley,

00:19:41.540 who wrote a lengthy blog,

00:19:43.740 really laying out

00:19:44.600 some of the real problems

00:19:45.960 over at the state broadcaster.

00:19:47.340 And one of the things

00:19:48.900 that you mentioned

00:19:49.380 was the sort of

00:19:50.320 new attitude

00:19:50.940 where journalists

00:19:52.260 don't question the narrative

00:19:53.680 or don't question

00:19:54.500 the direction

00:19:56.120 and policies

00:19:56.920 of the government

00:19:58.040 or big corporations.

00:19:59.660 And instead,

00:20:00.120 they sort of focus

00:20:00.720 their ire on people

00:20:01.860 that they disagree with

00:20:03.480 or people who have

00:20:04.240 unpopular,

00:20:04.960 unfashionable views.

00:20:06.940 So I want to make you

00:20:08.080 comment a little bit

00:20:08.980 on sort of the CBC

00:20:10.400 and how the sort of

00:20:13.560 culture over there

00:20:14.660 has an impact

00:20:15.940 on all Canadians

00:20:16.980 and certainly

00:20:17.480 our political culture

00:20:18.240 in this country.

00:20:19.560 Yeah, I don't think

00:20:20.780 she said anything

00:20:21.300 that surprised a lot

00:20:22.320 of people in terms

00:20:23.060 of the criticisms.

00:20:23.840 A lot of people feel

00:20:25.000 that way about the CBC.

00:20:27.380 She also did reference 0.73

00:20:28.380 items that had to do

00:20:29.180 with the pandemic

00:20:29.880 in terms of how

00:20:30.720 they've reported it.

00:20:34.360 Look, every media

00:20:35.800 organization has a culture.

00:20:37.740 The CBC does.

00:20:39.120 The Toronto Sun does.

00:20:40.700 The difference is,

00:20:41.540 of course,

00:20:41.940 that you don't have

00:20:42.540 to buy the Sun.

00:20:43.480 You have to buy the CBC.

00:20:45.240 And I think she was,

00:20:49.760 and this was a person

00:20:50.720 who'd been there

00:20:51.280 as a producer of TV

00:20:52.480 and radio shows

00:20:53.060 and an occasional columnist

00:20:54.160 who went,

00:20:54.940 there is this groupthink

00:20:56.060 that says that there

00:20:57.260 are certain correct

00:20:58.220 positions on issues

00:20:59.580 and that other positions

00:21:01.380 are invalid.

00:21:04.160 Personally,

00:21:04.740 when I wrote about

00:21:05.520 what she said,

00:21:06.400 I said that I've thought

00:21:07.920 that for years.

00:21:08.680 I think that if you look

00:21:09.800 at the mindset

00:21:11.280 of the CBC,

00:21:13.220 it is much closer

00:21:14.360 to the views

00:21:15.120 of Justin Trudeau

00:21:16.000 and the liberals

00:21:16.540 than it is Aaron O'Toole

00:21:18.660 or whoever the conservative

00:21:19.640 leader happens to be.

00:21:21.200 And the conservative party,

00:21:23.200 if you look at issues

00:21:23.760 like freedom,

00:21:24.760 if you look at issues

00:21:25.580 like climate change,

00:21:27.020 if you look at hate crime,

00:21:29.700 law and order,

00:21:30.540 and I think

00:21:33.880 that is something

00:21:35.700 that we should be worried about.

00:21:37.820 Now,

00:21:38.660 the Son has a conservative view,

00:21:41.020 but we don't go out

00:21:42.580 and do research

00:21:43.740 to tell Canadians

00:21:45.040 not to use words

00:21:46.320 like lame

00:21:47.780 and grandfathering in.

00:21:51.320 What was the CBC thinking of?

00:21:54.420 We don't do a poll

00:21:55.960 that specifically talks about,

00:21:58.220 you know,

00:21:59.100 less than half

00:22:00.300 almost half

00:22:01.140 but less than half

00:22:01.700 of Canadians

00:22:02.220 would be comfortable

00:22:02.940 moving to Alberta.

00:22:05.060 What was that about?

00:22:06.760 They didn't ask any other,

00:22:08.380 they didn't ask people

00:22:09.100 living anywhere else.

00:22:10.100 Well,

00:22:10.400 where would they be?

00:22:12.320 And I remember,

00:22:13.440 like,

00:22:13.780 I remember tweeting on it

00:22:14.600 and going,

00:22:15.460 okay,

00:22:16.340 but what about,

00:22:17.540 most people like

00:22:18.220 where they live.

00:22:19.060 That's the simple truth.

00:22:21.360 So there was

00:22:22.180 such a blowback

00:22:23.020 that the pollster

00:22:24.080 who did the first one

00:22:25.100 for them

00:22:25.540 went back

00:22:26.360 and asked the question

00:22:27.400 properly

00:22:28.000 all across the country.

00:22:29.320 And what happened?

00:22:31.340 Turns out that Alberta

00:22:32.480 was the,

00:22:33.600 in the top third

00:22:34.620 of places

00:22:35.160 that people would

00:22:35.860 be comfortable living

00:22:36.900 in Canada.

00:22:38.280 It was the exact same level

00:22:40.060 as for Ontario

00:22:41.120 and it was twice

00:22:43.180 as popular

00:22:43.820 as Quebec.

00:22:45.200 Now,

00:22:45.700 obviously Quebec

00:22:46.460 has to do

00:22:47.080 with the language.

00:22:47.880 I'm not,

00:22:48.140 not trashing

00:22:49.100 the people of Quebec.

00:22:50.460 But,

00:22:50.880 but what would

00:22:51.780 cause you originally

00:22:52.880 when you're

00:22:53.760 in the story meeting

00:22:54.660 and you're talking

00:22:55.780 about,

00:22:56.240 let's do a poll

00:22:56.940 about where Canadians

00:22:57.920 would be,

00:22:59.020 that you would only

00:22:59.680 talk about Alberta 0.87

00:23:00.540 and that you would

00:23:01.580 organize the poll

00:23:02.580 only about Alberta

00:23:03.820 and then nobody

00:23:04.860 when they got the story

00:23:05.960 wouldn't have gone,

00:23:07.060 I mean,

00:23:07.360 I'm an editor.

00:23:08.340 You would have to be

00:23:09.100 a doofus

00:23:09.860 getting that information

00:23:10.860 not to go,

00:23:11.880 whoa,

00:23:12.060 wait a minute,

00:23:12.540 wait a minute.

00:23:13.320 We're going to say

00:23:13.980 less than half of Canadians

00:23:15.140 are comfortable

00:23:15.620 in living in Alberta.

00:23:16.920 What about everywhere else?

00:23:18.460 And then when they

00:23:19.020 did the story,

00:23:20.880 rather,

00:23:21.440 rather than talking

00:23:22.760 about the key factors,

00:23:24.760 yeah,

00:23:24.880 well,

00:23:24.980 we said less than half

00:23:25.940 while actually

00:23:26.400 they're in the top third

00:23:27.260 and it's the same

00:23:28.200 as Ontario

00:23:28.780 and,

00:23:29.540 you know,

00:23:30.680 yada,

00:23:31.140 yada,

00:23:31.320 yada,

00:23:31.660 rather than doing

00:23:32.520 that truthfully

00:23:33.840 to sort of refute

00:23:35.860 what the first poll

00:23:36.940 had said,

00:23:38.080 they led off

00:23:38.900 that the most popular

00:23:40.020 places to live in

00:23:40.940 or to be comfortable

00:23:42.000 in were B.C.

00:23:43.260 and Atlantic Canada.

00:23:44.520 What's that got to do?

00:23:47.140 That's not the issue.

00:23:48.500 The issue is you did a poll

00:23:49.620 because you were trying

00:23:50.500 to smear Alberta.

00:23:52.100 So other media,

00:23:53.600 I think,

00:23:54.380 like,

00:23:54.600 and their complaints,

00:23:55.360 people complain about

00:23:55.840 all of me,

00:23:56.140 they complain about the sun,

00:23:57.480 you know,

00:23:57.740 so I'm not,

00:23:58.420 I'm not trying to,

00:23:59.140 but it's,

00:23:59.660 it's,

00:24:00.000 it's,

00:24:00.500 and I did,

00:24:01.340 one of my first jobs

00:24:02.780 in media was as a gopher

00:24:04.080 at CBC National Radio

00:24:06.660 when I was very young

00:24:07.440 and I've written that,

00:24:09.960 well,

00:24:10.080 it was the cast,

00:24:10.620 British cast system there.

00:24:12.020 My job,

00:24:12.720 I was lowest,

00:24:13.400 you know,

00:24:13.720 lowest last hired,

00:24:14.900 lowest down.

00:24:15.700 So my job was to smile

00:24:17.560 when people were having

00:24:18.500 a bad day

00:24:18.920 and they yelled at me,

00:24:20.180 but they were serious

00:24:22.160 journalists.

00:24:22.740 I mean,

00:24:23.760 when I dealt with those folks

00:24:25.500 in a very low level

00:24:26.780 and when they,

00:24:27.680 when they allowed me

00:24:28.640 to start writing brief items,

00:24:29.980 they taught me

00:24:30.880 how to do things,

00:24:31.680 how to write it coherently,

00:24:32.800 how to write it accurately.

00:24:34.460 So,

00:24:34.980 you know,

00:24:35.500 back then to me,

00:24:36.540 it was a very different culture.

00:24:38.680 It,

00:24:39.020 whatever the fights

00:24:39.780 within the CBC were,

00:24:41.220 they were about

00:24:41.800 putting out the news

00:24:43.620 accurately,

00:24:44.500 you know,

00:24:44.720 and they had icons

00:24:45.640 who did that.

00:24:46.860 I don't think

00:24:47.440 it's the same anymore.

00:24:48.800 And,

00:24:49.100 and it's the particular problem.

00:24:50.940 If they were privately run,

00:24:52.640 live long and prosper.

00:24:53.860 If you think

00:24:54.480 that's where your market is,

00:24:55.900 you know,

00:24:56.380 fill your boots,

00:24:57.540 but you're the national broadcaster.

00:24:59.980 You know,

00:25:00.620 you're supposed to,

00:25:01.360 you tell us

00:25:01.900 that your mandate

00:25:02.460 is to look at,

00:25:03.440 you know,

00:25:03.920 things nationally.

00:25:04.520 When I asked the CBC,

00:25:06.960 well,

00:25:07.120 what about Tara Henley's things?

00:25:10.120 They said,

00:25:11.060 we disagree

00:25:11.740 with her perspective.

00:25:12.760 We make every effort

00:25:14.180 to cover the diversity

00:25:15.480 of views in,

00:25:16.660 in Canada.

00:25:17.660 And that's not just our,

00:25:19.600 how did they word it?

00:25:21.140 It's not just what we do.

00:25:22.440 It's our responsibility.

00:25:25.640 I,

00:25:26.000 you know,

00:25:26.700 okay.

00:25:27.860 And,

00:25:28.260 and the person who said it to me,

00:25:29.400 I smart person

00:25:30.900 and,

00:25:31.180 and,

00:25:31.380 and I thank them

00:25:32.220 for their,

00:25:32.780 their input.

00:25:34.360 But,

00:25:34.920 but I'm not sure

00:25:35.940 that that's how many Canadians

00:25:37.420 would think the CBC behaves today.

00:25:40.080 Well,

00:25:40.520 it's,

00:25:40.760 it's so interesting,

00:25:41.880 Laurie,

00:25:42.100 because it's sort of like

00:25:42.900 the worst of the worst

00:25:44.060 of the sort of the fringe

00:25:44.900 far left.

00:25:45.760 Ideology,

00:25:46.400 the dogma,

00:25:47.080 the way that they look into

00:25:48.860 and pull out race 0.95

00:25:49.960 as a center of every aspect

00:25:51.460 of every story.

00:25:52.260 Like that,

00:25:52.640 like a story can't be about,

00:25:53.900 you know,

00:25:54.720 a community,

00:25:55.980 it can't be about a family.

00:25:57.040 It has to,

00:25:57.800 they have to focus

00:25:58.540 on the issue of race,

00:25:59.880 which is often so divisive.

00:26:01.460 It's like,

00:26:02.240 it's like people sitting around,

00:26:03.820 you mentioned earlier

00:26:04.480 in the interview

00:26:04.980 that Canada doesn't have

00:26:06.100 the same sort of red state,

00:26:07.780 blue state divide

00:26:08.620 where we're,

00:26:09.100 we're sort of coming apart

00:26:10.280 as a country.

00:26:11.180 We're pretty,

00:26:12.080 you know,

00:26:12.580 united in some ways.

00:26:13.820 And yet here's CBC

00:26:15.080 sitting around a table

00:26:15.900 scheming about,

00:26:16.740 hmm,

00:26:17.060 how can we bring in

00:26:18.880 this sort of divisive

00:26:20.160 American woke culture

00:26:22.080 and bring it up to Canada

00:26:23.700 to try to further divide

00:26:24.680 a country?

00:26:25.100 Oh,

00:26:25.200 I have an idea.

00:26:26.040 Let's,

00:26:26.420 let's,

00:26:26.680 let's look into

00:26:27.840 and try to tell a story

00:26:28.840 about how nobody likes Alberta

00:26:30.320 and nobody wants to move there.

00:26:31.520 It's like,

00:26:32.200 it's like they're designing news

00:26:33.600 to try to divide the country.

00:26:35.440 Henley said in her experience

00:26:37.860 as since I think it was 2013

00:26:39.620 before she resigned

00:26:40.760 as a producer

00:26:42.380 and,

00:26:42.780 and of TV and radio

00:26:44.380 and an occasional columnist

00:26:46.220 that she was aware

00:26:48.360 that in booking guests,

00:26:50.340 people had to basically fill out

00:26:53.160 the background of these people.

00:26:55.180 Who are you booking?

00:26:55.940 And the reason was

00:26:57.840 they wanted more

00:26:58.840 of certain types of people

00:27:00.180 and less of other types of people.

00:27:02.920 Now,

00:27:03.440 I agree that there is

00:27:05.480 legitimate concern

00:27:06.860 that you want your,

00:27:09.040 you want your commentary

00:27:11.440 to reflect the country,

00:27:13.160 right?

00:27:13.800 And so,

00:27:14.900 I'll give you an example.

00:27:16.920 If there's an issue

00:27:17.680 about economy

00:27:18.360 and there's an Asian

00:27:19.900 or a black 0.97

00:27:20.520 or a Filipino column,

00:27:21.980 you know,

00:27:22.460 economist who's,

00:27:23.360 who's expert on this,

00:27:24.520 well,

00:27:24.600 then of course you go

00:27:25.460 and get them.

00:27:26.520 Of course,

00:27:27.220 you know,

00:27:27.460 like in other words,

00:27:28.300 you're not putting that person on

00:27:29.440 because of their color.

00:27:31.140 You're putting them on

00:27:32.220 because of their expertise.

00:27:34.120 And what may well

00:27:35.500 have happened in the past

00:27:36.580 is that,

00:27:37.380 is that people more

00:27:38.140 always weren't put on

00:27:39.140 simply because,

00:27:40.500 oh,

00:27:40.540 our audience won't like that.

00:27:41.620 You know,

00:27:41.900 that was wrong

00:27:43.580 and that needed to be corrected.

00:27:45.660 But when you're,

00:27:46.700 when you're sitting on your staff

00:27:48.680 so much

00:27:49.520 that they are filling out forms,

00:27:51.740 well,

00:27:52.000 okay,

00:27:52.260 this person was this

00:27:53.480 and this person was this

00:27:55.120 and I got,

00:27:55.820 I know I got to make more people

00:27:56.960 from this group

00:27:57.760 rather than that group

00:27:59.320 and nobody

00:28:00.240 in the organization goes,

00:28:02.280 what is going on?

00:28:04.640 This,

00:28:04.940 this is creepy.

00:28:05.800 This feels wrong.

00:28:06.520 Like we're putting race

00:28:07.400 above everything else.

00:28:08.480 and I know there's a whole section

00:28:10.500 on CBC's website

00:28:11.800 called Being Black in Canada

00:28:13.080 and I get the kind of concept

00:28:15.800 is like,

00:28:16.260 hey,

00:28:16.340 let's tell more stories

00:28:17.480 from people of diverse backgrounds.

00:28:19.180 But,

00:28:19.360 but when you have a whole dedicated section

00:28:21.200 on your website

00:28:21.860 and I read it

00:28:22.860 and it's like,

00:28:23.320 they're really kind of scraping

00:28:24.720 the bottom of the barrel

00:28:25.640 just to come up with stories

00:28:26.740 and like,

00:28:27.080 it's like,

00:28:27.620 I'm sitting around,

00:28:28.560 hmm,

00:28:28.720 how can we tell a different story

00:28:30.240 of racism in Canada?

00:28:31.000 How can we retell the story

00:28:32.520 that we think Canada

00:28:33.500 is this horrible racist, 0.91

00:28:34.560 irredeemably racist country

00:28:35.800 and just different iterations

00:28:37.600 of the same thing

00:28:38.200 over and over again?

00:28:39.000 And it's like,

00:28:39.840 they're pumping it out.

00:28:40.640 It's like propaganda,

00:28:41.480 Laurie.

00:28:41.940 It's,

00:28:42.100 it's to me just so wrong

00:28:44.220 that we're paying for it again.

00:28:46.540 I'll give you an example.

00:28:47.580 I did a story about a huge,

00:28:49.940 it's,

00:28:50.580 I guess the primary award

00:28:51.740 that,

00:28:52.780 you know,

00:28:53.600 honoring black citizens

00:28:54.780 and it's called

00:28:56.740 the Harry Jerome Awards.

00:28:58.380 And I've covered,

00:29:00.160 I'm astounded

00:29:01.080 by the,

00:29:01.900 by the quality

00:29:02.880 of these winners.

00:29:04.700 They would be winners

00:29:05.780 anywhere.

00:29:07.380 And,

00:29:07.840 you know,

00:29:08.240 like,

00:29:08.920 how often do we hear about that?

00:29:10.100 How often do we hear about,

00:29:11.180 actually,

00:29:11.500 no,

00:29:11.640 this community is integrating

00:29:12.840 really well

00:29:13.400 and here's things they're,

00:29:14.780 they're,

00:29:15.120 they're doing with other communities

00:29:16.600 and here's Arab groups

00:29:17.720 and Jewish groups

00:29:18.360 working together,

00:29:19.600 you know,

00:29:20.200 to try and achieve things

00:29:21.160 or,

00:29:21.700 or working together

00:29:22.780 on,

00:29:23.280 on,

00:29:23.600 on charitable endeavors.

00:29:24.760 I worked for 20,

00:29:26.380 more than two decades

00:29:27.680 with a,

00:29:28.160 a black charity

00:29:29.480 that,

00:29:29.740 that was founded

00:29:30.280 by Jamaican Canadians

00:29:31.400 who gave,

00:29:33.140 who were able to gather

00:29:34.420 millions of dollars

00:29:35.500 in donations

00:29:36.080 in food

00:29:37.540 and in,

00:29:37.940 in,

00:29:38.480 in hospital supplies.

00:29:39.860 They sent them to Canada. 0.90

00:29:40.880 They sent them around

00:29:41.620 the world

00:29:42.540 and,

00:29:43.360 and,

00:29:43.820 you know,

00:29:44.860 and just,

00:29:45.920 just,

00:29:46.360 they were everyday people

00:29:47.620 and,

00:29:48.600 and like,

00:29:49.240 but of course,

00:29:49.720 when you do that story,

00:29:50.540 oh,

00:29:50.600 that's a happy story.

00:29:51.300 You do it once a year

00:29:52.020 and away we go.

00:29:53.100 Um,

00:29:53.800 uh,

00:29:54.600 like,

00:29:54.820 are we really

00:29:55.480 the most racist

00:29:56.720 country in the world?

00:29:58.100 Are we really

00:29:59.340 the equivalent

00:29:59.900 of apartheid South Africa?

00:30:01.280 Um,

00:30:02.560 uh,

00:30:03.100 I don't think rational

00:30:04.140 people believe that.

00:30:05.960 Um,

00:30:06.560 but,

00:30:07.120 but also what I noticed

00:30:08.420 when I,

00:30:09.140 when I broach subjects

00:30:10.900 like this,

00:30:11.540 people say to me,

00:30:12.700 I'm so glad you're saying it

00:30:13.640 because I'm afraid to say it.

00:30:14.860 And that's the insidious thing.

00:30:16.680 People are afraid to say

00:30:18.160 things that are,

00:30:19.820 are,

00:30:20.180 you know,

00:30:20.960 hell,

00:30:21.540 they went after Rex Murphy

00:30:22.700 because he said Canada

00:30:23.660 wasn't a racist country.

00:30:25.800 Like,

00:30:26.360 like,

00:30:26.580 like,

00:30:27.860 okay,

00:30:28.600 you can,

00:30:28.960 you can disagree.

00:30:29.540 You can say,

00:30:30.300 well,

00:30:30.380 look,

00:30:30.560 that,

00:30:30.840 that minimizes the problem.

00:30:32.740 You know,

00:30:33.020 understandable.

00:30:34.300 Or Wendy Mesley, 0.99

00:30:36.460 basically her career

00:30:37.760 destroyed because in two

00:30:39.820 story meetings,

00:30:40.700 she used the N word 0.92

00:30:42.420 and she said the full word

00:30:43.860 because she was angry

00:30:45.580 about racism.

00:30:47.560 Now,

00:30:48.680 and,

00:30:49.000 and you're saying

00:30:49.980 the context doesn't matter

00:30:52.000 anymore.

00:30:53.040 Like,

00:30:53.460 okay,

00:30:53.660 maybe it wasn't sensitive

00:30:54.640 and maybe,

00:30:55.500 you know,

00:30:55.800 if somebody objected,

00:30:56.980 she could apologize

00:30:57.780 and not do,

00:30:58.540 but really,

00:30:59.540 you crater a 40-year career.

00:31:02.120 Whatever you think of,

00:31:03.020 of,

00:31:03.400 of,

00:31:03.660 you know,

00:31:04.360 Wendy Mesley

00:31:04.880 and her work in the CBC,

00:31:06.020 she was a loyal soldier

00:31:07.280 to them.

00:31:07.980 And you crater her

00:31:09.240 based on that,

00:31:10.600 that you can't use

00:31:11.640 when you're angry

00:31:12.260 about racism,

00:31:13.100 the N word

00:31:13.540 in a story meeting,

00:31:15.000 right?

00:31:15.620 But don't say lame

00:31:16.800 and don't say

00:31:17.560 grandfathering in.

00:31:19.020 What is wrong

00:31:19.960 with you people?

00:31:21.020 What is wrong

00:31:21.680 with your management?

00:31:23.460 Well,

00:31:23.960 there's just,

00:31:24.580 there's just so much,

00:31:26.000 there is so much

00:31:26.640 wrong with it.

00:31:27.160 And right,

00:31:28.300 like the idea

00:31:29.300 with Rex Murphy

00:31:30.620 is column,

00:31:32.460 it wasn't just saying

00:31:33.380 Canada's not a racist country.

00:31:34.280 It says that we're not

00:31:34.880 a country defined

00:31:35.700 by racism.

00:31:36.420 When you think of Canada,

00:31:37.320 you don't,

00:31:37.540 of course,

00:31:37.880 there's racist people.

00:31:38.880 There's racist people

00:31:39.580 all over the planet

00:31:40.660 of every color.

00:31:41.980 And you use racist country

00:31:43.080 when you're saying

00:31:43.680 a specific thing.

00:31:44.980 Yeah,

00:31:45.120 when you say Canada,

00:31:45.680 it's like you're

00:31:46.160 defined by it.

00:31:47.400 Yeah,

00:31:47.580 exactly.

00:31:48.880 But,

00:31:49.160 but I mean,

00:31:49.660 it's the same thing.

00:31:50.460 I mean,

00:31:50.560 we could go on forever

00:31:51.400 about this,

00:31:52.060 but the Ontario

00:31:53.740 Divisional Court

00:31:54.400 just ruled that

00:31:55.100 you can't ask

00:31:56.180 math teachers

00:31:56.820 to pass a basic

00:31:57.840 grade nine math exam

00:31:58.880 because it's racist.

00:31:59.680 Not because the law

00:32:01.000 itself is racist

00:32:01.820 or the intent

00:32:02.460 of the law is racist,

00:32:03.280 but because the impact

00:32:05.200 is,

00:32:05.960 has,

00:32:06.320 is racially divided

00:32:08.880 or whatever.

00:32:09.600 So it's like every,

00:32:10.500 they,

00:32:10.740 they find racism

00:32:11.900 in just every mundane thing.

00:32:14.060 And I think it's,

00:32:14.940 it's really having

00:32:16.100 a bad impact on our society.

00:32:17.460 It's really tearing us apart

00:32:18.360 at a time when our prime minister

00:32:20.120 is also doing everything he can

00:32:21.380 to vilify people

00:32:22.860 that he disagrees with.

00:32:23.820 So Laurie,

00:32:25.120 I mean,

00:32:25.380 it's,

00:32:25.560 it's,

00:32:25.800 it's a tough time

00:32:26.540 in Canada right now,

00:32:27.260 but we really appreciate

00:32:28.020 you coming on the show

00:32:28.880 and helping us make sense of it.

00:32:31.060 Thank you so much for joining us.

00:32:32.240 Thank you for your time.

00:32:33.580 Thank you for having me.

00:32:35.640 All right.

00:32:35.960 Thank you so much for tuning in.

00:32:37.180 I'm Candace Malcolm

00:32:37.760 and this is

00:32:38.400 The Candace Malcolm Show.

00:32:44.060 The Candace Malcolm Show.

Juno News - January 10, 2022

Is Justin Trudeau losing his grip on reality？

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