Juno News - Is the Alberta–Ottawa pipeline deal already dead？

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Straight Up. I am your host, Mark Petroni. Is the proposed pipeline deal through

00:00:09.500 northern B.C. already dead on arrival? Prime Minister Carney is expected to announce

00:00:15.040 the signing of an agreement with Alberta Premier Danielle Smith tomorrow, but so far,

00:00:20.120 Carney has provided no details and no timelines and says B.C. will have a veto over any such

00:00:26.840 project. The leader of the Conservative Party says unless there's a timeline for construction

00:00:32.020 set out from the get-go, the so-called pipeline deal is a pipe dream. On Thursday, he'll make

00:00:39.120 one of his grand announcements waving around a meaningless so-called memorandum of understanding.

00:00:45.100 If it's anything other than a public relations ploy, why won't he say on what date will construction

00:00:52.700 begin on a pipeline from Alberta to the Pacific? The memorandum of understanding that we're

00:00:58.820 negotiating with Alberta creates necessary conditions but not sufficient conditions because

00:01:05.040 we believe in cooperative federalism. We believe the government of British Columbia has to agree.

00:01:10.600 We believe that First Nations right-holders in this country have to agree and support.

00:01:16.140 Well, as you heard there, Carney says the project cannot move forward without British Columbia's

00:01:25.640 say-so. Up to now, B.C. Premier David Eby has been adamantly opposed to the project, so again,

00:01:32.880 is the pipeline project dead on arrival? If so, former Conservative MP Lisa Raitt says it may be time

00:01:39.760 to put the whole issue to a vote in a pipeline election. Let's listen.

00:01:42.960 At the end of the day, David, this comes down to an election, then let's go and let's figure out

00:01:48.080 exactly what we stand for. Do we want an economic bright future or do we want to hold back different

00:01:53.280 parts of the country because you're uncomfortable with your cut in a deal?

00:01:57.780 Meantime, the CBC is reporting some liberals are grumbling about the prospect of a pipeline deal

00:02:03.400 with Alberta. This headline, some B.C. Liberal MPs concerned about the prospect of a new oil pipeline,

00:02:10.640 according to sources. Some MPs are worried about the backlash from anti-pipeline voters in their

00:02:17.100 riding. Liberal MP Nate Erskine-Smith says the last pipeline deal that allowed Trans Mountain to move

00:02:23.800 forward left a sour taste. Could you at any point support the government endorsing the construction

00:02:29.740 of a new pipeline, even if those minimum conditions are met? Well, I lived through one grand bargain

00:02:34.000 already in my political life at the beginning of, what, 2016, 2017. I don't think it went so well.

00:02:40.340 So I'm a little skeptical of grand bargains. And look, I'll look at the overall picture of the deal

00:02:45.840 in the MOU when it's announced on Thursday. And we'll see what the Prime Minister has to say today.

00:02:50.100 And I'll have lots to say once I see the details.

00:02:52.380 Prime Minister Carney may want to get rid of some of the holdovers from the Trudeau era,

00:02:56.820 but at least one of them says not so fast. Industry Minister Melanie Jolie says she has

00:03:01.560 no interest in leaving her current post for a rumored job as ambassador to France.

00:03:07.160 Do you have any interest in becoming Canada's ambassador to France?

00:03:10.780 Absolutely not. I'm focused on my job right now, which is to be the Minister of Industry

00:03:19.220 and to fight for every single job in this country at a time of trade tensions. And so I'll continue

00:03:26.520 to do that. And if she wants to keep her job as Minister of Industry, she may want to start reading

00:03:32.180 the contracts that end up costing taxpayers billions of dollars, like the one that awarded

00:03:37.640 Stellantis billions in subsidies with no jobs guarantee. Last month, Stellantis announced

00:03:43.440 it's moving an assembly plant out of Brampton to Illinois, costing 3000 Canadian job. I'm now joined

00:03:50.840 by Jeff Rath, who is a constitutional lawyer, and one of the leading voices when it comes to

00:03:56.920 Alberta independence. Welcome once again, Jeff. Thank you very much for having me.

00:04:01.860 All right. So people have been preparing for an announcement regarding the apparent pipeline agreement,

00:04:08.980 a memorandum of understanding between Daniel Smith, Premier of Alberta, and the Prime Minister.

00:04:16.620 What are your expectations for that announcement?

00:04:19.300 Well, I mean, I think they've already discussed it in the House. Pierre Polly have pulled the rug

00:04:23.540 out from underneath Daniel's feet. He referred to it as a meaningless public relations ploy. And I think

00:04:31.480 that's a very good description of it. And then Mark Carney said something, it was like kind of

00:04:37.540 not necessarily conscription, but conscription if necessary. It creates the necessary conditions,

00:04:43.960 but not the sufficient conditions, you know, and that BC and the BC First Nations will retain a veto

00:04:50.360 over pipeline construction. So she's no better off than she was six months ago, only she's burned up all

00:04:57.380 of her political capital, like a drunk lighting cigars with $100 bills, right? So Danielle looks really

00:05:03.900 foolish today. She got nothing out of her silly little ultimatum, you know, well, you know, you get 0.99

00:05:09.860 rid of your nine bad laws or else and give us a pipeline or else. She's probably worse off than she 1.00

00:05:15.340 was six months ago, because she's got everybody in Alberta questioning her sanity. I mean, we all told

00:05:20.740 her she was going to get nothing out of talking to Mark Carney. She doesn't seem to understand that

00:05:25.720 Nahid Nenshi, the leader of the Alberta NDP, was a card carrying liberal when he was the mayor of 1.00

00:05:31.980 Calgary, and that he and Justin Trudeau were continually whipsawing Jason Kenney like a moron 0.99

00:05:37.440 throughout COVID. Well, they're doing the same thing to her. So Nenshi and Carney are pulling 0.99

00:05:42.940 the strings. They're making her look completely foolish. And her base is questioning her sanity. 1.00

00:05:48.720 I mean, we're going to be at the UCPA GM this weekend. And she's going to be trying to, you know,

00:05:53.220 sell this, you know, MOU with some massive achievement. And people are going to be laughing at her. 1.00

00:05:58.380 It's going to be really, really bad for her. It's, you know, I'm embarrassed for her. It's awful.

00:06:03.840 Yeah. I mean, how does she sign on to this memorandum of understanding with the feds and

00:06:10.000 then sell that, to your point, to Albertans who will smell a rat a mile away?

00:06:16.260 Well, that's the whole thing. We're not even calling her the memorandum of understanding

00:06:19.400 anymore. We're calling it a memorandum of underachievement, right? That's the only MOU

00:06:25.060 that we're looking at. I mean, it's, you know, she's failed in every respect to get anything done. 0.89

00:06:30.280 The only option she has left is to declare, you know, herself in favor of Alberta independence

00:06:36.440 and commit herself to leading Alberta out of Canada. But I don't think she's got the guts for

00:06:41.160 it. And certainly the people around her don't have the guts for it. So she's going to be in a

00:06:46.100 really, really tough position. And we'll know, I guess, at the end of this weekend,

00:06:49.340 because the pro-independence forces are trying to get a 100% pro-independence board of directors

00:06:55.200 elected for the UCP, which will have the ability to, you know, you know, select MLAs, to call special

00:07:02.500 general meetings, you know, including a review of the continued leadership of Daniel Smith,

00:07:07.640 should it come to that, et cetera, et cetera. So we'll know at the end of the weekend who controls

00:07:11.580 that party, whether it's Daniel Smith or whether it's, you know, whether it's the forces of

00:07:15.740 independence. Well, you helped spearhead that movement to get rid of the previous premier,

00:07:21.200 right? Jason Kenney. I mean, yeah, I mean, at this point, Daniel's still very popular amongst our

00:07:27.020 base and people, you know, it's this constant fear, oh, we can't get rid of Daniel because we don't

00:07:31.500 want to split the party and get, you know, a communist government elected in Alberta. But the

00:07:35.820 problem that we have is, is that Daniel's not leaving. You know, she's playing all these silly 0.95

00:07:40.300 political games. She's having, you know, these goofy what's next panels over the summer, 0.75

00:07:44.920 asking people whether we should have a referendum on things that she should have done two years ago,

00:07:50.900 you know, like increasing Alberta's taxation jurisdiction, collecting more taxes in Alberta,

00:07:56.140 ending immigration to Alberta at this point, because we're completely overloaded. Don't have

00:08:01.760 enough water, don't have enough electricity, don't have enough schools, don't have enough hospitals,

00:08:05.820 all of that, right? She hasn't done anything, except now she wants to have like six or seven

00:08:12.800 referenda on asking questions about stuff she should have done two and a half years ago.

00:08:17.780 The only reason she's doing it is to confuse the issue in and around the independence referendum. 0.98

00:08:23.880 And we're not buying it. We're not very happy with it right now.

00:08:26.980 And speaking of that, do you think that this so-called agreement, once it comes out and is rejected by many

00:08:35.480 Albertans, that that's going to boost your cause, which is Alberta independence?

00:08:42.180 Oh, there's no doubt. I mean, I mean, the best, actually, the strongest proponent for Alberta

00:08:46.580 independence in Canada is Mark Carney. I mean, every time, every time that man opens his mouth,

00:08:52.200 you know, we get another thousand volunteers, you know, him standing up in the House of Commons,

00:08:57.080 effectively making fun of Daniel Smith, saying, Oh, yeah, this grand bargain, it's a nothing,

00:09:02.060 you know, it's a nothing burger thing. It's, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know,

00:09:07.980 it's not sufficient to get anything done, but Oh, well, it'll keep the little lady happy. 1.00

00:09:12.940 So we're going to throw her a little bone here. But, you know, nobody needs to worry.

00:09:17.020 There won't be a pipeline built anytime soon. Like, I mean, literally, I don't know if you saw the clip

00:09:22.180 or not, but it was, I think it was a week and a half ago. Somebody actually asked Mark Carney

00:09:26.680 about a grand bargain with the Daniel Smith. He laughed out loud. He went, Oh, we call that an

00:09:33.980 MOU. Right? It's like, don't pay attention to that. We call it an MOU. It doesn't mean anything.

00:09:42.900 Oh, it's so silly that she thinks it does anything. All right. He's laughing at her, 0.82

00:09:48.420 like literally laughing at her. And, you know, once I always say that once politicians,

00:09:53.820 once people start laughing at them, their career is over. I mean, look at Stockwell Day

00:09:58.200 and his jet skis, right? Or on the jet ski, right? So the minute people start laughing

00:10:02.920 at you, you're done. And unfortunately, I think that's where Daniel is at. Somebody foolishly

00:10:08.700 advised her to issue an ultimatum. When the six months was up, she then starts backpedaling

00:10:15.080 to try to find a new date. Then she saw the so-called MOU as her big lifeline, you know,

00:10:21.080 that's going to, you know, that's going to satisfy everybody. And that like, she can pretend

00:10:24.940 that she's accomplished something in the last six months. Nobody is buying it. Like nobody.

00:10:30.280 But why would she sign a bad deal? Why not say no?

00:10:35.500 She's desperate, right? Mark Carney has put her, like Mark Carney and Nahid Nenshi have run

00:10:41.420 her into a box canyon, right? Like she's in a box canyon ambush right now. And her only way

00:10:47.740 out, I'm telling you this right now, is to counterattack. And the only way to, this is

00:10:51.420 just, you know, this is just my, you know, my former days as a soldier speaking, you know,

00:10:55.540 the only way out is to counterattack. And the only counterattack she's got is to lead 0.72

00:10:59.860 Alberta in independence, which would be the best thing for this province, right? $70 billion

00:11:04.520 a year we send to Ottawa, we get less than $20 billion a year back, right? You know, we

00:11:09.880 have to run deficit budgets. We're borrowing money to pay for our doctors, nurses, teachers,

00:11:14.000 all of that. Well, we send $15 billion a year to Quebec. None of this makes any sense. Alberta

00:11:20.840 can literally eliminate federal income tax in year one of independence. And Danielle Smith

00:11:26.180 doesn't have the guts to do it. Like, you know, it's as the conversation continues, and

00:11:31.660 as Albertans figure out the value of freedom from Canada, more and more people are coming

00:11:37.960 on board. We're polling over 45% now in favor of independence, and a referendum hasn't even

00:11:42.720 been called, right? Like, it's every week that goes by, the movement just gets stronger

00:11:48.260 and stronger and stronger, right? And just for fun, those statistics that I was throwing

00:11:53.160 out, I was on a podcast not too long ago, and somebody, you know, like all the fact checkers

00:11:58.300 decided to run my numbers through Brock. And apparently, I exaggerated a little bit, I say

00:12:04.420 $78 billion a year leaves Alberta to get less than 20 back. Brock confirmed that it's $68.8

00:12:11.420 billion a year that leaves Alberta. And we get less than $10 billion a year back in direct

00:12:18.960 federal transfers. So it's, you know, there's the math, I mean, the math mitigates entirely

00:12:24.700 against Alberta staying in Canada.

00:12:26.860 But clearly, the Prime Minister is calling your bluff here. He doesn't take your movement

00:12:33.160 very seriously. If he did, then perhaps he would push a little harder, in fact, a lot harder

00:12:38.280 to get this pipeline green lit, rather than simply, you know, pushed off into the distant

00:12:44.440 future somewhere, or never.

00:12:46.820 I mean,

00:12:47.120 Yeah, and I think the only thing I can say to that is you can always tell a liberal, you

00:12:51.200 just can't tell him much.

00:12:54.060 You know, like, you know, I think they're in denial. I think, you know, I think they've

00:12:58.480 got, you know, they've got their, they have their agents in Alberta, like Jason Kenney, you

00:13:03.120 know, oh, don't worry about it. We've got this under control. They're just a bunch of

00:13:06.340 Yahoo's, this isn't going anywhere. I mean, there's an economist by the name of Martin

00:13:10.680 Armstrong. And Martin Armstrong specializes in looking at, you know, political economic

00:13:17.400 movements, and then predicting, you know, where they're going to, you know, where things

00:13:21.700 are going to end up. And he's got an amazing track record, you know, he predicted, you

00:13:26.360 know, like, in terms of the things that he's predicted. Martin Armstrong has predicted

00:13:30.380 that the economic case for Alberta independence is so strong, that he sees Alberta being an

00:13:36.160 independent country in two years.

00:13:38.220 Two years.

00:13:39.440 And I mean, I think that's the, I mean, I think that's the path we're on. We're looking

00:13:42.360 to have a referendum, you know, by September of 2026. So, you know, less than a year from

00:13:47.680 now. And I'm telling you, like, Alberta unemployment right now is at 9%. Youth unemployment is over

00:13:54.300 20. Indigenous unemployment is over, you know, is over 60%. I mean, you don't think people 0.62

00:14:01.840 are going to be ready to vote for independence, like 12 months from now, when Alberta unemployment

00:14:06.140 is over 10%. Youth unemployment is over 25%. You know, I mean, it's, you know, people don't

00:14:12.960 understand that Albertans deeply resent the Liberals turning Alberta into Newfoundland.

00:14:19.200 You know, effectively, that's what they've done.

00:14:20.880 And if you do have a successful referendum, then you might get the Fed say, all right,

00:14:25.440 all right, we see how serious you are. We'll grant you your pipeline.

00:14:31.280 I mean, yeah, but at that point, it's too late. We're gone. You know, it's like, you know,

00:14:34.820 like, sorry, you punched us in the face for the last time. You know, we've got a divorce

00:14:38.460 lawyer, right? We're working, you know, here's the papers. The only thing for you to do is

00:14:42.680 to sign. And if people don't, if people think the United States isn't going to immediately

00:14:47.240 recognize or support a yes vote in Alberta, they're not paying attention. Yeah, right.

00:14:52.960 I mean, you know, the United States sees it in their national interest. And I've had these

00:14:56.800 discussions with the Americans, they see it in their national interest for to get Alberta

00:15:02.340 out from underneath the control of communist China. And, you know, the Americans, the Americans

00:15:07.280 literally see Ottawa as being controlled by China. And that Ottawa is, you know, is literally 0.59

00:15:12.660 managing the Alberta economy for the benefit of communist China, which is to say, destroying 0.99

00:15:18.300 the entire Canadian economy so that the Chinese and Brookfield can come in and buy it up at 1.00

00:15:22.760 pennies on the dollar.

00:15:24.520 And last time we spoke, you talked about going down to DC and having meetings. You didn't say

00:15:30.740 with who. I mean, have those discussions with the Americans?

00:15:34.800 Oh, you froze there, Mark.

00:15:37.300 Am I back now?

00:15:38.520 Yeah, there you go.

00:15:39.160 Anyway, as I sort of said there, I mean, last time we spoke, you said you were in DC, you

00:15:46.160 went to Washington, and had conversations with various players connected to the Trump

00:15:51.880 administration about the possibility of Alberta's ultimate decision to go. Have those talks continued?

00:16:00.380 I'm in touch with them weekly now. And we're talking about going back down again in December

00:16:06.060 for further discussions. The long and the short of it is that, you know, the United States

00:16:13.400 is very concerned about the fact that Kearney is busily turning Canada into a third world

00:16:19.920 hellhole, right? They're doing little or nothing to stop, you know, the Chinese from shipping 1.00

00:16:24.720 fentanyl precursor chemicals into Canada. They're doing little or nothing to address all of the

00:16:29.900 gangs that are working in conjunction with the Ministry of State Security in China, shipping

00:16:34.240 fentanyl precursor chemicals into Canada. They are deliberately thumbing their nose at the

00:16:40.500 United States on an ongoing basis, right? We can eliminate our trade deficit tomorrow

00:16:44.860 and our underfunding of NATO by simply announcing a $60 billion a year purchase contract for

00:16:51.580 helicopters, surveillance drones, armored personnel carriers, all of the things that are needed

00:16:56.240 to patrol the US Canadian border, right? We'd wipe out the trade deficit overnight, and would vastly

00:17:02.520 improve our relationship with the US. But instead, what's Kearney doing? Oh, I think Canada should join

00:17:07.200 the EU. I think we should enter into a $200 billion military buildup agreement with the Europeans, where we

00:17:14.500 will only buy European equipment. You know, like, thanks, thanks, you know, thanks so much, United States for

00:17:20.640 defending us for the last 30 years. Well, we didn't spend any money whatsoever on our military. Thank you

00:17:26.500 so much for letting us live under your military protection and umbrella. But now screw you elbows 0.95

00:17:32.000 up. You know, we don't want to talk to you anymore. Because, you know, Mark Carney has declared our 0.64

00:17:37.340 relationship with the United States over. Well, we announced, you know, a strategic alliance with

00:17:43.200 Communist China, who, incidentally, we're still at war with, because we've never signed a peace deal over Korea.

00:17:49.180 You know, you can't make this stuff up. It's ludicrous. 0.96

00:17:54.040 And I think maybe there are Americans who think, you know, as long as we get Alberta on side, have a

00:17:58.500 relationship with them, or maybe even incorporate them into the American family, what do we need the rest of

00:18:04.200 the of Canada for? Except, well, I mean, absolutely. Alberta in a free market with the United States with zero

00:18:11.340 tariffs on both sides of the Alberta US border, who needs the Royal Bank? We'll have JPMorgan Chase, we'll have bank, you

00:18:17.100 know, we'll have Wells Fargo, we'll have, you know, all the American banks, like Toronto

00:18:20.860 Dominion. You know, like, you know, what's the problem, right? You know, everything that we're

00:18:28.940 doing in Alberta could be so much better. Like, is that something people don't focus on, is that

00:18:33.940 Alberta has 90% of its trade is with the US, only 10% is with the rest of Canada and the rest of the

00:18:41.160 world. So we just need to make up 10% of that trade, which we can pick up through two pipelines,

00:18:46.660 one, you know, out through Washington State, just like Nutrien announced recently, they're building

00:18:51.320 shipping facilities for potash in Washington State, we could get a deal done to have an oil

00:18:56.260 terminal for Alberta oil in Washington State overnight, to hell with BC, right? Start stopping

00:19:02.480 every truck coming through BC and Ontario at the border, hold them up for two weeks, inspecting,

00:19:07.000 inspect them for rats. You know, let's see how Evie likes that, you know, like if he wants to hold 1.00

00:19:12.880 up a pipeline. I mean, you know, all the leverage doesn't, you know, doesn't, doesn't go one way,

00:19:18.040 but Danielle Smith doesn't have the guts to do it. You know, empty threats and empty promises. 1.00

00:19:23.660 That's the problem.

00:19:25.000 Last question, Jeff. Tomorrow, once this deal is tabled, and I guess Danielle Smith tries to sell 0.94

00:19:34.420 it to Albertans, what is the prognosis in terms of discussions going forward between

00:19:41.860 the ongoing political issues that Danielle may very well have as a result of trying to pass off a deal 1.00

00:19:48.440 that doesn't really exist because it pushes a pipeline construction into the distant future,

00:19:54.560 if at all. And what happens after that?

00:19:59.360 Well, I think the problem for Danielle is she's completely blown all of her credibility 0.99

00:20:03.940 with her base, right? So, you know, Albertans aren't stupid. I mean, we've been around this 0.99

00:20:09.560 game for, you know, forever, right? So, you know, we know what liberal promises are worth.

00:20:14.020 They're worth nothing. So, you know, and again, you know, if, you know, as a gesture of good faith,

00:20:18.860 the first thing that, you know, Carney should have done was pass a bill in Parliament to get rid of

00:20:23.940 the tanker ban. Because how do you raise money? Like, how do you raise private money to invest in a

00:20:29.120 pipeline when there's federal law saying that the oil out of that pipeline can't be put into ships

00:20:33.780 and taken offshore? You can't raise money under those circumstances, but they won't do it.

00:20:38.400 So, you know, like these nine bad laws, I mean, you know, like, instead, oh, well, we'll increase the

00:20:44.680 industrial carbon tax. You know, we'll get rid of the emissions cap, but we'll, you know, like,

00:20:49.160 we'll double the industrial carbon tax. Like, what does that do to investment in Alberta? Like,

00:20:53.880 it kills it. Like, we can't build AI centres in Alberta. Carney doesn't want us to anyway,

00:20:58.300 you know, because we would hook them up to natural gas fields that we have 10,000 years

00:21:02.680 supplies out of. No, no, he wants us all buying Brookfield nuclear reactors. So that every time

00:21:08.440 we plug in, every time we plug in an electric car, we don't want the money gets siphoned out

00:21:12.700 of our wallet through a wall socket into Carney's offshore bank account. Like, we're, we're fed up.

00:21:18.060 Like, we're just, we're done. You can't make this stuff up, can you?

00:21:22.680 No, you can't. We, you know, we're living the Confucian curse. May you live in interesting times. 1.00

00:21:29.940 Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it.

00:21:33.060 It's a real, it's a real pleasure, Mark. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

00:21:36.560 I'm now joined by Colin Craig from secondstreet.org. And he's got an update on a rather grim statistic,

00:21:43.860 100,000 Canadians dying on waitlist since 2018. He's been crunching the numbers and he joins us

00:21:51.780 now from Calgary. Colin, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. And good for you for

00:21:57.100 gathering these numbers. I know it's not easy when you're dealing with different provinces with

00:22:00.980 different rules, but this 100,000 number really stands out as a grim statistic. How did you come to

00:22:08.420 this? And maybe you could talk a little bit about this grim milestone.

00:22:13.860 Yeah. So, I mean, this, the story starts, uh, probably around 2018, 19. Um, when our think

00:22:20.180 tank was getting up and running, we were reflecting on a sad story from Ontario, uh, Laura Hillier,

00:22:25.320 young girl, she was, I think 19 at the time, died on a waiting list, um, because of delays

00:22:31.180 in the healthcare system. And they just took too long to get to her. And we got thinking with stories

00:22:36.500 like hers that got us thinking, like, how often does this happen? Because governments do not

00:22:41.680 proactively tell the public, this is how many patients are dying on waiting lists. So we thought,

00:22:46.720 well, let's try and gather some data. And we were successful at it. We've been able to gather data,

00:22:51.520 um, at least partial data across the country for several years now. And that's how we tallied up

00:22:56.480 over a hundred thousand cases now where patients have died waiting for, uh, appointments with

00:23:02.720 specialists, diagnostic scans and, uh, surgeries. Yeah. I mean, the fact that people are dying because

00:23:09.840 they can't get like MRIs and other types of diagnostic tests. I mean, that's really bad. I mean,

00:23:17.360 you can almost expect that people will certainly die waiting for livers or, or kidneys, these types

00:23:25.600 of things, but they're actually dying because they can't get the proper testing that they need.

00:23:30.800 That is terrible. Yeah. It's, it's a wide array of cases that the data represents. So it's,

00:23:36.720 it's everything from heart surgery and heart procedures, which obviously, you know, if you're

00:23:41.520 not getting that in time, you can die to on the other end of the spectrum, things like maybe a hip

00:23:46.720 operation or cataract surgery. And people sometimes say, well, you're not going to die because you

00:23:51.120 don't get cataract surgery to which, you know, we often say, well, wait a second. What is a quality

00:23:57.200 of life thing for a lot of people? I mean, no one wants to spend the final years of your life with

00:24:01.280 cloudy vision, or maybe you've got severe pain because you're waiting for hip operation, whatever,

00:24:07.040 but you could also maybe have an accident because you've got cloudy vision and that you die because of

00:24:12.640 that, or maybe because you've got severe pain while you're waiting for your hip operation,

00:24:18.400 that you're not mobile, you're stuck in your apartment, you're not getting exercise. And we

00:24:22.960 all know exercise is so important for the body that, you know, if you don't get it, that can contribute to

00:24:28.240 a reason why you die, maybe like a heart attack or something like that. So, you know, I don't think

00:24:34.000 generally we can dismiss these numbers. I mean, they're not good. And what we want governments to do

00:24:39.200 more than anything is number one, do a good job tracking this information, analyze it, right? So

00:24:46.720 you can figure out where all the problem points are, make changes as necessary, but also to disclose

00:24:53.440 it to the public. So we, you know, that that's what needs to be done around this. More broadly

00:24:58.800 speaking, we need to change the system because the system has been failing for years. Too many patients

00:25:04.080 are falling between the cracks. It's really bad out there. And, you know, we're talking numbers

00:25:09.280 today, Mark, but there's lots of really bad stories, individual Canadian stories behind these

00:25:14.320 numbers. Absolutely. Each one of those numbers is a person. Yeah. You talk about disclosure and then

00:25:20.960 it sounds to me like some of these provinces would rather not say, you know, how many people are dying

00:25:26.640 on wait lists. Is that what's going on here? Are some of them just digging in their heels,

00:25:30.880 refusing to issue bad news because they don't want to make it public?

00:25:35.200 I think so. I mean, it's crazy if you think about it. You know, governments will hold a press

00:25:40.480 conference if they're buying like a new pencil sharpener for a school or something, right?

00:25:44.160 They find all these excuses to hold press conferences when it's good news. But, you know,

00:25:49.920 there's no disclosure of this data proactively. I mean, we can even tell that in many cases,

00:25:54.960 governments aren't even looking at the data themselves because we have, they'll give us a bill

00:26:00.080 and they charge us because they're having to go out and collect the data together. But if they

00:26:05.440 were already collecting the data, then they wouldn't charge us. So that's how we know that

00:26:09.280 they're often just not even really paying attention to these statistics. But I'll tell

00:26:13.760 you a crazy comparison, Mark, is if you look at the fact that across Canada, every single day,

00:26:20.560 you've got government health inspectors walking into restaurants. And if they find even the most

00:26:26.400 minor problem, they write it up and off and it gets posted publicly, you know, something like a

00:26:30.880 missing paper towel holder. Well, we have people dying in the government's healthcare system. And too

00:26:37.520 often we hear about these individual stories, not because the government comes forward to let the

00:26:42.160 public know they've let someone down, but because the patient's family comes forward. So there's a huge

00:26:48.800 element of hypocrisy here where the governments just are not holding themselves to the same standard

00:26:54.000 as everyone else. And in fact, these numbers may actually be low because some people, of course,

00:27:00.800 opt for suicide, essentially. The MAID program is sadly becoming more popular all the time. I think of

00:27:07.760 it as the fastest growing industry in Canada is death. And the government, it seems, would rather

00:27:14.640 offer people the, quote, easy way out for them because it's less expensive. And so you really don't

00:27:22.160 know, and maybe you'll be looking into this in the future, how many people are opting for suicide

00:27:29.520 rather than get on a wait list and just prolonging the agony.

00:27:34.160 Yeah, it is something that we're going to be digging into because we have heard these anecdotes

00:27:41.360 where someone has applied for assisted suicide from the government because they're living in chronic

00:27:47.680 pain. And we actually heard of one case where the government said, no, we're not going to give you

00:27:51.840 assisted suicide because there's a treatment for your problem. And the guy said, well, wait,

00:27:57.680 I've been waiting 20 years for this treatment. He'd been trying to get the government to provide

00:28:02.320 them the treatment that would help them and they wouldn't do it. And so, you know, it's crazy.

00:28:07.200 We want to know like how often that's actually happening. I mean, big picture, if I could leave

00:28:12.160 your listeners with one message, it's this. We have traveled to Sweden and France and Japan,

00:28:19.280 where they have public universal healthcare systems. That's what Canadians want, a working system.

00:28:24.960 And in those countries, they don't have the wait times like we have, you know, you're getting in much,

00:28:30.560 much faster. And so what we want is achievable, but we have to make the types of changes that will

00:28:38.160 bring our system closer to those European models in particular, giving patients choice between using

00:28:44.880 the public system or paying privately if they want to. This allows public systems to focus on helping

00:28:50.480 those who don't have the means to pay. Another big change is that in those systems, they fund services to

00:28:57.440 patients, whereas we fund healthcare systems. So governments throw money into a healthcare system

00:29:02.720 and they hope the money trickles down to help patients. It's a big difference. Their systems

00:29:07.920 are incentivized to help patients and make sure those dollars are spent on doctors and nurses rather

00:29:13.760 than bureaucrats. So, you know, those are just a couple differences, but the big picture point is we

00:29:20.320 can improve, but we've got to be copying what these other countries are doing better, particularly in Europe.

00:29:25.920 Yeah. I mean, we spend as much money as anybody else or most other countries,

00:29:30.080 I'm not mistaken. And so where's the problem here? Why aren't those dollars ending up,

00:29:36.400 you know, providing frontline care for people who need it, you know, to just walk into any emergency

00:29:41.840 ward these days and line up, you know, unless you're dying and seconds count, you know,

00:29:48.560 you end up waiting sometimes eight, 10 hours for a doctor to see somebody. I mean, that's absolutely

00:29:57.920 ludicrous in a country like Canada. It makes no sense. And so you have to ask, you know, since we 0.95

00:30:03.760 spend all this money, where is it going? Is it just going to the bloated bureaucracy, you know,

00:30:09.040 middle management, upper management, you know, at the expense of frontline care?

00:30:13.840 And, you know, what do you see as a possible solution here incorporating, you know, private

00:30:20.640 as well as public, you see a mix here, would that be a possible solution?

00:30:24.800 Yeah. So we need less ideology in healthcare. I mean, that's the fundamental problem or one of the

00:30:31.520 fundamental problems. And so what governments should be doing is deciding how much they're going

00:30:36.240 to pay for different procedures. You know, you get your finger operated on that's going to be less

00:30:42.000 complex than the heart surgery, right? So you figure out how much you're paying to fix a finger,

00:30:45.920 how much you're doing for heart surgery, whatever. And then governments should open it up to anyone

00:30:50.800 with qualified staff to do those types of procedures. Shouldn't matter if it's a government clinic or a

00:30:56.160 private clinic or a nonprofit, they'd all get the same flat amount of money when they provide that

00:31:00.960 service. And this approach would create a good, transparent level playing field, like I say,

00:31:07.360 that you often find in countries like France and over in Europe. And that way you start to get a

00:31:13.120 little bit more competition. You're incentivizing output because you're paying to get for something

00:31:19.200 when it gets done, rather than just throwing it into a system and hoping that the money makes its

00:31:24.880 way down to helping patients. It's early days. Has your study received any reaction, maybe from

00:31:32.880 political figures or others in the healthcare field, maybe patients?

00:31:38.320 Yeah, I mean, not at this point for this particular report. You know, we drew attention to a problem in

00:31:45.120 Manitoba earlier this year where a patient died on a waiting list and the government, you know, they

00:31:49.920 announced they were going to make some positive changes there. We're still waiting to see those

00:31:53.680 changes get done. But, you know, there's the two elements here. There's one, the whole accountability

00:31:59.920 aspect related to this. We need governments to change on that, track the data, analyze it, disclose it.

00:32:05.280 But we need the broader reforms to happen. And the good news is, is that when it comes to the broader

00:32:10.640 reforms to prevent these problems from happening in the first place, the Alberta government in particular

00:32:15.840 has announced a few major changes that they're going to make that will help to reduce waiting lists.

00:32:22.960 It will bring the Alberta system closer towards those European models that I was talking about.

00:32:28.400 Quebec is doing a couple of good things too. They're doing one thing that's not going over very,

00:32:32.800 very well with doctors there, which doesn't make a lot of sense. But, you know, we're seeing some

00:32:37.760 positive changes in the country, but by far the leader right now is Alberta. And we need to see

00:32:43.200 more provinces following Alberta's footsteps. How do people support your organization?

00:32:50.160 Well, thank you. I mean, people could go to our website, it really helps that people look at our

00:32:54.960 information, share it. And if they really like what we're doing, they can make a donation. Like I say,

00:33:00.480 it helps us pay to get this data and pry it out of government's hands.

00:33:03.760 Paul and Craig, thank you so much for coming on the show. We appreciate it.

00:33:07.440 Thanks a lot, Mark. And that is it for this edition of Straight Up. Appreciate

00:33:12.720 you tuning in, my friends. Let's do it again soon, shall we? Bye-bye for now.

Juno News - November 26, 2025

Is the Alberta–Ottawa pipeline deal already dead？

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript