Juno News - January 23, 2022


＂It's time we reopen＂： Brampton mayor Patrick Brown calls for an end to lockdowns


Episode Stats

Length

16 minutes

Words per Minute

175.95541

Word Count

2,873

Sentence Count

172


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome back to the Andrew Lawton Show on True North. I've had a lot of more critical things
00:00:13.200 to say about politicians. I was going to say in the last show, but it's really been the last two
00:00:17.520 years. But I always try to give credit where it's due. And there's been in Ontario, one mayor who's
00:00:24.040 been standing up and speaking out in very clear terms about a lot of the lockdowns and certainly
00:00:29.040 even a couple of weeks ago, when the Omicron panic I mentioned in the previous segment started up,
00:00:34.560 he started to say, well, hang on. I mean, yes, we have to be cautious, but the science and the
00:00:39.040 numbers are not supporting this idea of panic, this knee-jerk reaction. They're certainly not
00:00:45.100 supporting the idea that we have to start closing everything down again. He's been a very good
00:00:49.100 advocate for his constituents, and I'd say for Canadians at large, about being able to stay
00:00:54.060 open and get back to normal through the pandemic. And that is Brampton, Ontario Mayor Patrick Brown,
00:00:59.820 formerly the leader of the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party. Patrick, it's good to talk
00:01:05.200 to you again. Thanks very much for coming on today. Yeah, great to join you today.
00:01:09.400 Now, I think generally speaking, if we go back to the very beginning of the pandemic, we had a fairly
00:01:14.600 unified approach between federal leaders, provincial leaders, municipal leaders, everyone wanted to
00:01:20.840 work together, cooperate, and get through this. But the longer it's gone on, we've started to see,
00:01:26.820 certainly among Canadians, a great deal of frustration with how some of the public health
00:01:31.760 guidance and advice has come down. And I know you actually were one of the more vocal ones a few
00:01:36.640 weeks back when in the Omicron wave we saw there was a pretty big gap between, on one hand, this level
00:01:43.040 of panic that we tended to be getting from some people and the story that was actually taking place
00:01:48.000 on the ground, specifically in hospitalizations and in case counts. A lot of people are starting
00:01:53.740 to talk more about it now, this distinction of being in hospital because of COVID and with COVID.
00:01:59.340 But you actually got a fair bit of pushback when you made what was a fairly obvious point, I thought.
00:02:04.900 Well, I think at the beginning of the crisis, everyone was unified, because we didn't know what we were
00:02:09.980 dealing with. And when faced with adversity, Canadians rallied together. But as we've learned
00:02:16.300 more about this virus, you know, we have to adapt based on knowledge. I've always said, follow the
00:02:22.400 science, follow the data, be as transparent as possible. And don't treat the public like children,
00:02:28.680 tell them the unvarnished truth. And where there's times I've been frustrated, is where I feel
00:02:35.840 we're trying to spin a narrative and not give the full picture. An example of the hospitalizations
00:02:42.420 for me was something that I felt that I needed to push out there because it wasn't being included
00:02:47.320 in the media narrative. I found out just through my own briefings, and I get briefed every week by
00:02:54.440 the hospitals here locally, that half the COVID cases in the hospital were incidental. So if someone
00:03:01.360 went to the hospital with a broken arm, had no symptoms, weren't being treated by COVID, they were
00:03:06.040 counting in the COVID numbers. And the COVID numbers were being used, the COVID hospitalization
00:03:12.880 numbers were being used as a justification for lockdowns. And I just felt this was dishonest,
00:03:19.440 it was disingenuous. And then I found out that it wasn't just my local hospitals that had incidental
00:03:26.840 COVID as 50% of the hospitalized cases. It was at a similar level in every other hospital I spoke to.
00:03:34.080 And I have to give Premier Ford credit when I put this out there and made this request that they be
00:03:40.640 reported accurately. Literally within a day, the health minister and the premier responded and said
00:03:46.480 that they would correct the reporting. And as of now, they've done that. We now get a more accurate
00:03:52.560 picture. But for the lockdown crowd that wants to continue justifying lockdowns, this was what I
00:04:01.040 was suggesting was treason. How dare you give the public the truth? How dare you give the public
00:04:07.420 the unvarnished truth? I just really believe, Andrew, if you want to instill confidence in
00:04:13.680 government institutions, you can't spin them. You can't spin the public. Just tell them the truth.
00:04:18.780 And if you give them the truth, and you have to make a tough call, they'll understand and appreciate
00:04:23.760 it. I think when you see more people get skeptical is when you try to spin them and alter the reality
00:04:33.400 of the picture. Yeah, I think one big example of that is earlier on when, and I don't mean at the
00:04:40.180 very beginning, I mean, just as recently as a year ago, when even on some outdoor recreation and
00:04:46.200 outdoor gatherings, which we know are very, very safe, we're being clamped down. And I know this
00:04:51.620 has been a big thing for you personally, I know you're a very active person, you, you are a big
00:04:55.780 fan of hockey and all these other sports. And again, we had people that were being told that they
00:04:59.620 weren't allowed to, to gather outdoors to do things that are fairly safe. And certainly, I think there's
00:05:04.600 been a bit more of a trend towards opening up on that. But a lot of Canadians, I think just tuned
00:05:09.380 out advice when it just wasn't aligning with what we knew was safe in other ways.
00:05:13.220 Well, let me give you an example. And as you know, I spoke against this last spring, but last spring,
00:05:17.780 when the government announced they were closing playgrounds, outdoor recreation, I went to my
00:05:22.660 medical officer of health, who was very cautious, I went to the top infectious disease doctors,
00:05:27.340 who are very cautious. And I said, has this been recommended to the provincial government? And they
00:05:32.800 said, no. And I said, is there any science or data that supports this? And they said, no. And that made
00:05:39.540 me feel that at the time, those announcements were really based on PR. The public was worried. So
00:05:44.980 let's do something to make them less worried. But that's not leadership. Leadership is not making
00:05:51.460 an announcement for the sake of PR. It has to be grounded on principle and conviction and data and
00:05:58.560 science. And there was no reason to shut down outdoor recreation. Let me give you an example.
00:06:04.040 I love tennis. In tennis, you're 76 feet apart. At one point last year, we shut down tennis. Can you
00:06:11.520 imagine the unlikelihood of transmitting COVID 76 feet apart outdoors? It's absurd. And for kids who
00:06:20.100 already had to be out of school, they weren't getting fresh air. Recreation was closed. They
00:06:25.060 weren't getting exercise, which is integral to their physical wellness, to being told they couldn't even go
00:06:31.340 to the playground. It was preposterous. And, you know, in that case, as much as the government made
00:06:36.960 a mistake, I have to give them credit with this pushback they heard from physicians and public
00:06:42.480 servants like myself. They corrected course. And I much prefer a government that's willing to admit
00:06:47.420 they made a mistake and correct course than a government that will stubbornly follow the same
00:06:51.960 course. So let's talk about where we are now, because obviously regions have some level of autonomy,
00:06:58.200 but most of the overarching restrictions and measures are being driven by the province. And
00:07:03.920 in that sense, any municipality in the province is on that train as well. Where would you like to see
00:07:09.720 things now or in the coming weeks? Because we know that we are moving towards some lifting of
00:07:13.760 restrictions, but the vaccine passport was supposed to be gone in January. And that as of now remains in
00:07:19.020 place. Mask mandates again, we had earlier, I think months ago, heard that they could be lifted as soon
00:07:24.540 as March. I don't know if that's going to happen. Where do you think we should be headed right now on
00:07:29.260 that roadmap to reopening?
00:07:31.540 I think if you look around the world, economies are reopening. It's time we reopen in Ontario. And Andrew,
00:07:38.760 there are real stories. I get a phone call, you know, every few days from a business that's struggling
00:07:44.660 to stay afloat. I just got a call last night from a very popular gym in Brampton, small business,
00:07:51.740 and they're going under. And, you know, I think of the consequence for the community in that area
00:07:57.520 of the city where there's no other, you know, gym, we're going to lose a level of physical wellness.
00:08:03.160 There are restaurants that have gone under. This isn't just a health pandemic, it's an economic
00:08:07.300 tidal wave. And I don't support the continuation of lockdowns. The data and the science doesn't
00:08:14.440 support it. We've had two years to build capacity to handle any increase in COVID cases. And even
00:08:24.960 during this Omicron wave, which was intense, there was a lot more cases, our ICU capacity wasn't
00:08:30.760 threatened. It wasn't threatened. And, you know, I just feel that we're missing the bigger picture.
00:08:38.960 You know, we are having extreme broad based lockdowns. And, you know, it's, it's like putting
00:08:48.080 a cast on a leg for someone that has a small cut. You know, you could have put a bandage on that,
00:08:56.400 on that cut. And I think we're missing, there are huge repercussions in our society.
00:09:04.060 We're going to lose businesses and jobs, there's a mental health and an economic consequence to that.
00:09:08.960 In terms of closing recreation, you know, one of our greatest challenges is rising rates of
00:09:14.940 obesity, cardiac issues, we're going to contribute to that. I actually think there is a consequence
00:09:20.540 to public health by lockdowns that are too harsh. And so if it was up to me, and I've shared this
00:09:26.980 advice, you know, I want to give the premier credit, because he is one of the most accessible
00:09:32.480 premiers that I've dealt with premiers for a while, and I've been elected for since 2000.
00:09:37.540 You can pick up the phone, you can talk to Doug for, and I've had some very direct conversations
00:09:42.940 with him about this. And, you know, I, I just really believe that there's no justification,
00:09:52.620 justification to continue these lockdowns. And I believe, I believe they're going to make some
00:09:58.020 movement. I just hope it's not small tinkering around the edges that we're actually going to see
00:10:03.120 these these restrictions lifted. When we're talking about restrictions, I want to make clear,
00:10:07.920 I understand your point here, obviously, you'd have kids in school, and you wouldn't have
00:10:11.820 lockdowns on businesses, but things like the mask mandate and the vaccine passport, do you think
00:10:16.300 those could be lifted right now safely as well? Yeah, I think we're getting to that point. Let me
00:10:22.420 touch upon each of these one on schools, we've lost more school days than any other jurisdiction
00:10:28.120 in North on North America, there's no justification for losing more school days. In terms of closing
00:10:34.100 businesses and recreation, I think it's time to reopen them, I think we can do so safely.
00:10:38.920 In terms of of masks, I do believe that, you know, indoors, that masks can be useful tools to help
00:10:47.880 limit transmission. But with everything, there needs to be a level of reasonableness. You know,
00:10:54.660 I'll put a photo of myself outdoors, and someone will say, why are you not wearing a mask? It's
00:10:58.940 because I'm outdoors. You know, Andrew, I have two children, and my son is two and a half years old,
00:11:07.440 Theodore, and I signed him up for soccer lessons, little kickers. And I got a note from the organizers
00:11:14.760 that the provincial requirements were that they had to wear a mask. It is impossible to have a two-year-old
00:11:23.200 wear a mask. It is impossible. And so that's why I say that needs to be a level of reasonableness.
00:11:29.780 And where it's appropriate that wearing a mask can limit transmission, do so. But where it doesn't
00:11:37.240 make sense, there needs to be that level of reasonableness.
00:11:41.580 And talking about the business impact here, because I know that one thing that you have always done
00:11:46.560 very well in the years that I've known you is try to have relationships with as many different
00:11:50.680 people as possible. I think one time I had a meeting with you, and you had, you know, just
00:11:54.980 become from like, you know, 17, and you probably had like 20 more in the rest of the day or something
00:11:58.900 like that. But the reality is businesses are hugely, hugely suffering. You've touched on it earlier with
00:12:04.920 the lockdowns, and also, I think the unpredictability of it. And I know there have been a number of
00:12:09.560 restaurants that just personally that I've been to in the past couple of years that they made it
00:12:14.520 through lockdown one, then some closed down and locked down two, some made it through that and,
00:12:18.980 and closed down in lockdown three. So just in Brampton and in Peel region, what what's the story
00:12:24.700 here? I mean, what's happening with these businesses? You know, people have gone into their savings.
00:12:31.220 They have gone into debt. And there's a huge consequence, we are every lockdown, we lose businesses,
00:12:37.880 people have lost their life savings. There's a huge toll, you can't underestimate that toll.
00:12:46.100 And businesses that thought they could handle one lockdown, struggled on on the second,
00:12:52.240 every wave gets harder. And this this last wave of lockdowns has been devastating. We've lost
00:12:58.660 businesses, people have lost jobs, there'll be people that are on unemployment, because of these lockdowns.
00:13:05.400 So let me just ask you here, because obviously, in a parallel universe, it could have been you
00:13:12.400 as premier right now. And I don't want to rehash that, that I know you've had to do that as well. But
00:13:17.740 just looking forward, I mean, you're in Brampton, you're doing a lot of work there. I see your updates
00:13:22.960 all the time is jumping to federal or provincial politics still something you're open to?
00:13:27.960 I'm very happy in Brampton. And you know, what I've learned in life is that God has a reason for
00:13:32.940 everything. And I look back to 2018 at the time, you know, I certainly didn't understand
00:13:39.480 some of the false accusations that I had to go through. But you know, everything, you know,
00:13:44.960 honestly, has worked out for me. Personally, I've got two beautiful children, I got married.
00:13:50.620 And, you know, the beauty of being a parent almost makes anything else you do trivial. And so I love
00:13:57.460 my responsibility as being mayor of Brampton. My wife loves the fact that I'm in the same city every
00:14:04.380 night. You mentioned I used to go to 30 events a day across the province. That's not, you know,
00:14:11.460 you can't do that and be a present active parent that I love. And I love that responsibility. And so
00:14:18.080 yeah, I'm loving my current task in Brampton and not looking for a career change. I want to make
00:14:26.240 Brampton the best that it can be. I want to make us an example for other municipalities.
00:14:30.780 And I would note on that note, Andrew, we are the only big city in Canada that has run four
00:14:37.280 consecutive tax freezes. And we're doing a lot of incredible work. We're thinking outside of the box.
00:14:45.200 And I'm proud of the example that we're setting in Brampton.
00:14:48.100 I just got my property tax bill. So I might start looking up places in Brampton if you keep up that
00:14:52.320 record.
00:14:52.640 Well, we want to encourage people. Brampton's open. Brampton is open for every investment,
00:14:58.840 every resident. And we're trying to, you know, I think on a lot of issues actually it's been
00:15:05.260 interesting in Brampton. We've really started a conversation. We started, you know, on property
00:15:11.140 taxation, we're challenging the orthodox of how municipalities approach property taxes. Everyone
00:15:16.820 said you can't freeze taxes. We ran value for money audits and we have. On some important
00:15:22.560 provincial and federal conversations, I think we're leading the charge. You know, I lead a
00:15:26.880 community that is probably the most diverse in Canada, over 70% visible minorities, a mosaic of
00:15:33.520 faiths. And we've led a campaign across the country on challenging Bill 21, which is an attack on
00:15:39.520 religious freedom. And so, you know, I look at some of the exciting work that I get embarked upon
00:15:45.100 here in Brampton. And I feel very fortunate to be able to really dive into these issues. And so,
00:15:51.200 you know, I love being in Brampton and there's a lot of rewarding work you can do on the municipal
00:15:57.180 level.
00:15:58.300 Good, good. Well, I appreciate you joining to share about some of that work and also some of
00:16:02.560 the bigger picture things affecting people in communities across the province and also the
00:16:06.820 country. Patrick Brown, Mayor of Brampton. Thanks so much, Patrick. Always a pleasure.
00:16:10.560 My pleasure.
00:16:12.060 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show. Support the program by donating to True North
00:16:16.500 at www.tnc.news.