Juno News - ＂It's time we reopen＂： Brampton mayor Patrick Brown calls for an end to lockdowns

00:00:00.000 Welcome back to the Andrew Lawton Show on True North. I've had a lot of more critical things

00:00:13.200 to say about politicians. I was going to say in the last show, but it's really been the last two

00:00:17.520 years. But I always try to give credit where it's due. And there's been in Ontario, one mayor who's

00:00:24.040 been standing up and speaking out in very clear terms about a lot of the lockdowns and certainly

00:00:29.040 even a couple of weeks ago, when the Omicron panic I mentioned in the previous segment started up,

00:00:34.560 he started to say, well, hang on. I mean, yes, we have to be cautious, but the science and the

00:00:39.040 numbers are not supporting this idea of panic, this knee-jerk reaction. They're certainly not

00:00:45.100 supporting the idea that we have to start closing everything down again. He's been a very good

00:00:49.100 advocate for his constituents, and I'd say for Canadians at large, about being able to stay

00:00:54.060 open and get back to normal through the pandemic. And that is Brampton, Ontario Mayor Patrick Brown,

00:00:59.820 formerly the leader of the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party. Patrick, it's good to talk

00:01:05.200 to you again. Thanks very much for coming on today. Yeah, great to join you today.

00:01:09.400 Now, I think generally speaking, if we go back to the very beginning of the pandemic, we had a fairly

00:01:14.600 unified approach between federal leaders, provincial leaders, municipal leaders, everyone wanted to

00:01:20.840 work together, cooperate, and get through this. But the longer it's gone on, we've started to see,

00:01:26.820 certainly among Canadians, a great deal of frustration with how some of the public health

00:01:31.760 guidance and advice has come down. And I know you actually were one of the more vocal ones a few

00:01:36.640 weeks back when in the Omicron wave we saw there was a pretty big gap between, on one hand, this level

00:01:43.040 of panic that we tended to be getting from some people and the story that was actually taking place

00:01:48.000 on the ground, specifically in hospitalizations and in case counts. A lot of people are starting

00:01:53.740 to talk more about it now, this distinction of being in hospital because of COVID and with COVID.

00:01:59.340 But you actually got a fair bit of pushback when you made what was a fairly obvious point, I thought.

00:02:04.900 Well, I think at the beginning of the crisis, everyone was unified, because we didn't know what we were

00:02:09.980 dealing with. And when faced with adversity, Canadians rallied together. But as we've learned

00:02:16.300 more about this virus, you know, we have to adapt based on knowledge. I've always said, follow the

00:02:22.400 science, follow the data, be as transparent as possible. And don't treat the public like children,

00:02:28.680 tell them the unvarnished truth. And where there's times I've been frustrated, is where I feel

00:02:35.840 we're trying to spin a narrative and not give the full picture. An example of the hospitalizations

00:02:42.420 for me was something that I felt that I needed to push out there because it wasn't being included

00:02:47.320 in the media narrative. I found out just through my own briefings, and I get briefed every week by

00:02:54.440 the hospitals here locally, that half the COVID cases in the hospital were incidental. So if someone

00:03:01.360 went to the hospital with a broken arm, had no symptoms, weren't being treated by COVID, they were

00:03:06.040 counting in the COVID numbers. And the COVID numbers were being used, the COVID hospitalization

00:03:12.880 numbers were being used as a justification for lockdowns. And I just felt this was dishonest,

00:03:19.440 it was disingenuous. And then I found out that it wasn't just my local hospitals that had incidental

00:03:26.840 COVID as 50% of the hospitalized cases. It was at a similar level in every other hospital I spoke to.

00:03:34.080 And I have to give Premier Ford credit when I put this out there and made this request that they be

00:03:40.640 reported accurately. Literally within a day, the health minister and the premier responded and said

00:03:46.480 that they would correct the reporting. And as of now, they've done that. We now get a more accurate

00:03:52.560 picture. But for the lockdown crowd that wants to continue justifying lockdowns, this was what I

00:04:01.040 was suggesting was treason. How dare you give the public the truth? How dare you give the public

00:04:07.420 the unvarnished truth? I just really believe, Andrew, if you want to instill confidence in

00:04:13.680 government institutions, you can't spin them. You can't spin the public. Just tell them the truth.

00:04:18.780 And if you give them the truth, and you have to make a tough call, they'll understand and appreciate

00:04:23.760 it. I think when you see more people get skeptical is when you try to spin them and alter the reality

00:04:33.400 of the picture. Yeah, I think one big example of that is earlier on when, and I don't mean at the

00:04:40.180 very beginning, I mean, just as recently as a year ago, when even on some outdoor recreation and

00:04:46.200 outdoor gatherings, which we know are very, very safe, we're being clamped down. And I know this

00:04:51.620 has been a big thing for you personally, I know you're a very active person, you, you are a big

00:04:55.780 fan of hockey and all these other sports. And again, we had people that were being told that they

00:04:59.620 weren't allowed to, to gather outdoors to do things that are fairly safe. And certainly, I think there's

00:05:04.600 been a bit more of a trend towards opening up on that. But a lot of Canadians, I think just tuned

00:05:09.380 out advice when it just wasn't aligning with what we knew was safe in other ways.

00:05:13.220 Well, let me give you an example. And as you know, I spoke against this last spring, but last spring,

00:05:17.780 when the government announced they were closing playgrounds, outdoor recreation, I went to my

00:05:22.660 medical officer of health, who was very cautious, I went to the top infectious disease doctors,

00:05:27.340 who are very cautious. And I said, has this been recommended to the provincial government? And they

00:05:32.800 said, no. And I said, is there any science or data that supports this? And they said, no. And that made

00:05:39.540 me feel that at the time, those announcements were really based on PR. The public was worried. So

00:05:44.980 let's do something to make them less worried. But that's not leadership. Leadership is not making

00:05:51.460 an announcement for the sake of PR. It has to be grounded on principle and conviction and data and

00:05:58.560 science. And there was no reason to shut down outdoor recreation. Let me give you an example.

00:06:04.040 I love tennis. In tennis, you're 76 feet apart. At one point last year, we shut down tennis. Can you

00:06:11.520 imagine the unlikelihood of transmitting COVID 76 feet apart outdoors? It's absurd. And for kids who

00:06:20.100 already had to be out of school, they weren't getting fresh air. Recreation was closed. They

00:06:25.060 weren't getting exercise, which is integral to their physical wellness, to being told they couldn't even go

00:06:31.340 to the playground. It was preposterous. And, you know, in that case, as much as the government made

00:06:36.960 a mistake, I have to give them credit with this pushback they heard from physicians and public

00:06:42.480 servants like myself. They corrected course. And I much prefer a government that's willing to admit

00:06:47.420 they made a mistake and correct course than a government that will stubbornly follow the same

00:06:51.960 course. So let's talk about where we are now, because obviously regions have some level of autonomy,

00:06:58.200 but most of the overarching restrictions and measures are being driven by the province. And

00:07:03.920 in that sense, any municipality in the province is on that train as well. Where would you like to see

00:07:09.720 things now or in the coming weeks? Because we know that we are moving towards some lifting of

00:07:13.760 restrictions, but the vaccine passport was supposed to be gone in January. And that as of now remains in

00:07:19.020 place. Mask mandates again, we had earlier, I think months ago, heard that they could be lifted as soon

00:07:24.540 as March. I don't know if that's going to happen. Where do you think we should be headed right now on

00:07:29.260 that roadmap to reopening?

00:07:31.540 I think if you look around the world, economies are reopening. It's time we reopen in Ontario. And Andrew,

00:07:38.760 there are real stories. I get a phone call, you know, every few days from a business that's struggling

00:07:44.660 to stay afloat. I just got a call last night from a very popular gym in Brampton, small business,

00:07:51.740 and they're going under. And, you know, I think of the consequence for the community in that area

00:07:57.520 of the city where there's no other, you know, gym, we're going to lose a level of physical wellness.

00:08:03.160 There are restaurants that have gone under. This isn't just a health pandemic, it's an economic

00:08:07.300 tidal wave. And I don't support the continuation of lockdowns. The data and the science doesn't

00:08:14.440 support it. We've had two years to build capacity to handle any increase in COVID cases. And even

00:08:24.960 during this Omicron wave, which was intense, there was a lot more cases, our ICU capacity wasn't

00:08:30.760 threatened. It wasn't threatened. And, you know, I just feel that we're missing the bigger picture.

00:08:38.960 You know, we are having extreme broad based lockdowns. And, you know, it's, it's like putting

00:08:48.080 a cast on a leg for someone that has a small cut. You know, you could have put a bandage on that,

00:08:56.400 on that cut. And I think we're missing, there are huge repercussions in our society.

00:09:04.060 We're going to lose businesses and jobs, there's a mental health and an economic consequence to that.

00:09:08.960 In terms of closing recreation, you know, one of our greatest challenges is rising rates of

00:09:14.940 obesity, cardiac issues, we're going to contribute to that. I actually think there is a consequence

00:09:20.540 to public health by lockdowns that are too harsh. And so if it was up to me, and I've shared this

00:09:26.980 advice, you know, I want to give the premier credit, because he is one of the most accessible

00:09:32.480 premiers that I've dealt with premiers for a while, and I've been elected for since 2000.

00:09:37.540 You can pick up the phone, you can talk to Doug for, and I've had some very direct conversations

00:09:42.940 with him about this. And, you know, I, I just really believe that there's no justification,

00:09:52.620 justification to continue these lockdowns. And I believe, I believe they're going to make some

00:09:58.020 movement. I just hope it's not small tinkering around the edges that we're actually going to see

00:10:03.120 these these restrictions lifted. When we're talking about restrictions, I want to make clear,

00:10:07.920 I understand your point here, obviously, you'd have kids in school, and you wouldn't have

00:10:11.820 lockdowns on businesses, but things like the mask mandate and the vaccine passport, do you think

00:10:16.300 those could be lifted right now safely as well? Yeah, I think we're getting to that point. Let me

00:10:22.420 touch upon each of these one on schools, we've lost more school days than any other jurisdiction

00:10:28.120 in North on North America, there's no justification for losing more school days. In terms of closing

00:10:34.100 businesses and recreation, I think it's time to reopen them, I think we can do so safely.

00:10:38.920 In terms of of masks, I do believe that, you know, indoors, that masks can be useful tools to help

00:10:47.880 limit transmission. But with everything, there needs to be a level of reasonableness. You know,

00:10:54.660 I'll put a photo of myself outdoors, and someone will say, why are you not wearing a mask? It's

00:10:58.940 because I'm outdoors. You know, Andrew, I have two children, and my son is two and a half years old,

00:11:07.440 Theodore, and I signed him up for soccer lessons, little kickers. And I got a note from the organizers

00:11:14.760 that the provincial requirements were that they had to wear a mask. It is impossible to have a two-year-old

00:11:23.200 wear a mask. It is impossible. And so that's why I say that needs to be a level of reasonableness.

00:11:29.780 And where it's appropriate that wearing a mask can limit transmission, do so. But where it doesn't

00:11:37.240 make sense, there needs to be that level of reasonableness.

00:11:41.580 And talking about the business impact here, because I know that one thing that you have always done

00:11:46.560 very well in the years that I've known you is try to have relationships with as many different

00:11:50.680 people as possible. I think one time I had a meeting with you, and you had, you know, just

00:11:54.980 become from like, you know, 17, and you probably had like 20 more in the rest of the day or something

00:11:58.900 like that. But the reality is businesses are hugely, hugely suffering. You've touched on it earlier with

00:12:04.920 the lockdowns, and also, I think the unpredictability of it. And I know there have been a number of

00:12:09.560 restaurants that just personally that I've been to in the past couple of years that they made it

00:12:14.520 through lockdown one, then some closed down and locked down two, some made it through that and,

00:12:18.980 and closed down in lockdown three. So just in Brampton and in Peel region, what what's the story

00:12:24.700 here? I mean, what's happening with these businesses? You know, people have gone into their savings.

00:12:31.220 They have gone into debt. And there's a huge consequence, we are every lockdown, we lose businesses,

00:12:37.880 people have lost their life savings. There's a huge toll, you can't underestimate that toll.

00:12:46.100 And businesses that thought they could handle one lockdown, struggled on on the second,

00:12:52.240 every wave gets harder. And this this last wave of lockdowns has been devastating. We've lost

00:12:58.660 businesses, people have lost jobs, there'll be people that are on unemployment, because of these lockdowns.

00:13:05.400 So let me just ask you here, because obviously, in a parallel universe, it could have been you

00:13:12.400 as premier right now. And I don't want to rehash that, that I know you've had to do that as well. But

00:13:17.740 just looking forward, I mean, you're in Brampton, you're doing a lot of work there. I see your updates

00:13:22.960 all the time is jumping to federal or provincial politics still something you're open to?

00:13:27.960 I'm very happy in Brampton. And you know, what I've learned in life is that God has a reason for

00:13:32.940 everything. And I look back to 2018 at the time, you know, I certainly didn't understand

00:13:39.480 some of the false accusations that I had to go through. But you know, everything, you know,

00:13:44.960 honestly, has worked out for me. Personally, I've got two beautiful children, I got married.

00:13:50.620 And, you know, the beauty of being a parent almost makes anything else you do trivial. And so I love

00:13:57.460 my responsibility as being mayor of Brampton. My wife loves the fact that I'm in the same city every

00:14:04.380 night. You mentioned I used to go to 30 events a day across the province. That's not, you know,

00:14:11.460 you can't do that and be a present active parent that I love. And I love that responsibility. And so

00:14:18.080 yeah, I'm loving my current task in Brampton and not looking for a career change. I want to make

00:14:26.240 Brampton the best that it can be. I want to make us an example for other municipalities.

00:14:30.780 And I would note on that note, Andrew, we are the only big city in Canada that has run four

00:14:37.280 consecutive tax freezes. And we're doing a lot of incredible work. We're thinking outside of the box.

00:14:45.200 And I'm proud of the example that we're setting in Brampton.

00:14:48.100 I just got my property tax bill. So I might start looking up places in Brampton if you keep up that

00:14:52.320 record.

00:14:52.640 Well, we want to encourage people. Brampton's open. Brampton is open for every investment,

00:14:58.840 every resident. And we're trying to, you know, I think on a lot of issues actually it's been

00:15:05.260 interesting in Brampton. We've really started a conversation. We started, you know, on property

00:15:11.140 taxation, we're challenging the orthodox of how municipalities approach property taxes. Everyone

00:15:16.820 said you can't freeze taxes. We ran value for money audits and we have. On some important

00:15:22.560 provincial and federal conversations, I think we're leading the charge. You know, I lead a

00:15:26.880 community that is probably the most diverse in Canada, over 70% visible minorities, a mosaic of

00:15:33.520 faiths. And we've led a campaign across the country on challenging Bill 21, which is an attack on

00:15:39.520 religious freedom. And so, you know, I look at some of the exciting work that I get embarked upon

00:15:45.100 here in Brampton. And I feel very fortunate to be able to really dive into these issues. And so,

00:15:51.200 you know, I love being in Brampton and there's a lot of rewarding work you can do on the municipal

00:15:57.180 level.

00:15:58.300 Good, good. Well, I appreciate you joining to share about some of that work and also some of

00:16:02.560 the bigger picture things affecting people in communities across the province and also the

00:16:06.820 country. Patrick Brown, Mayor of Brampton. Thanks so much, Patrick. Always a pleasure.

00:16:10.560 My pleasure.

00:16:12.060 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show. Support the program by donating to True North

00:16:16.500 at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - January 23, 2022

＂It's time we reopen＂： Brampton mayor Patrick Brown calls for an end to lockdowns

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