Juno News - Jabs and Jobs

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.660 This is The Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.640 Coming up, Premier Jason Kenney on vaccines and restrictions in Alberta,

00:00:16.820 an update on Ontario's Trinity Bible Chapel case,

00:00:19.760 and why the federal government is not interested in exploring left-wing political violence.

00:00:26.440 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:30.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:35.780 This is The Andrew Lawton Show on True North.

00:00:38.240 A lot of things are happening in the country right now,

00:00:40.960 and we'll get to as many of those as we can,

00:00:43.360 but I want to first hone in on the province of Alberta.

00:00:46.820 We've had a pretty significant development coming in the next few days here.

00:00:51.800 Vaccines will be available to anyone 12 and up.

00:00:55.420 Also, we had this week the announcement that Alberta cross-border truckers will be able to get vaccinated in Montana,

00:01:02.600 but at the same time, we also have a new wave of restrictions in high case count regions,

00:01:08.560 and that includes much of the province, certainly most of the cities.

00:01:12.020 I want to talk about this with Alberta Premier Jason Kenney.

00:01:15.440 Now, Premier Kenney, last time you and I spoke,

00:01:17.780 you actually had to leave the interview rather early to go and greet,

00:01:21.240 I think it was the very first batch of vaccines,

00:01:23.700 so here we are coming full circle with a pretty significant expansion of vaccine eligibility.

00:01:29.900 Yes, so it's so unfortunate that it's taken this long for Canada finally to start getting

00:01:35.800 enough doses that we can expand it to the general population,

00:01:38.940 but we are finally there.

00:01:41.340 Andrew, if we had had the same kind of security of supply as the UK, United States, Israel,

00:01:49.460 or many other countries, I think we'd be broadly open by now.

00:01:53.700 We could have largely, not completely, but largely could have put COVID behind us

00:01:58.440 like so many of those places have,

00:02:00.440 but Canada has been three to four months behind the curve when it comes to vaccines.

00:02:07.040 As you know, that was the federal government's responsibility,

00:02:10.660 and we're constantly trying to remind people that they flubbed it,

00:02:17.640 and it wasn't just the Trudeau government,

00:02:19.120 but the Gretchen government that, frankly, in some left-wing populist politics in the 1990s,

00:02:27.320 they drove out the brand name pharmaceutical manufacturers

00:02:32.100 by radically changing the patent protection laws,

00:02:35.780 and so here we are, victims of vaccine nationalism,

00:02:37.880 but the good news is that we are finally starting to turn the corner.

00:02:41.100 We've vaccinated about 40% of our population with at least one jab.

00:02:46.820 We are the highest with double doses that's protected the seniors in nursing homes, 0.78

00:02:51.180 and we've vaccinated about a third of people over 16.

00:02:56.360 We'll be able to do another million.

00:02:58.440 So by the end of May, we should be at about 60% to 65% of the population vaccinated,

00:03:04.800 and with that protection,

00:03:07.000 we hope that we'll be able to move forward to start lifting some of these restrictions.

00:03:11.140 Are you confident that enough of the people who really need vaccines have gotten them already

00:03:17.180 that you aren't going to have otherwise healthy, low-risk 12-year-olds competing for the same appointments

00:03:22.300 as people that might be in a bit more of a risky category,

00:03:25.400 either by virtue of their health or even their job if they work on a front line in some way?

00:03:30.180 Well, we've been very careful about that.

00:03:31.700 We follow the scientific advice about the different risks.

00:03:35.600 I mean, when we're opening up to the general population,

00:03:37.780 we're starting bookings with those who are 30 and above,

00:03:41.360 and then about a week later, we're going to those who are 12 to 30.

00:03:44.000 So there is a staggering here.

00:03:45.940 But we're at a point where, you know, we have vaccinated 85% of those over 75.

00:03:53.840 Frankly, we're having a hard time finding the other 15%. 1.00

00:03:56.440 We're working at getting to them.

00:03:59.060 We have vaccinated 85% of those with chronic conditions that could lead to COVID sickness.

00:04:04.320 And so, you know, we've really almost maxed out, I would say, the most vulnerable categories.

00:04:11.680 Andrew, we are suffering the highest total number of active cases and daily case counts

00:04:16.760 in the entire 14 months of the pandemic in Alberta.

00:04:19.720 As you probably know, while most provinces are going down in their numbers,

00:04:23.860 we're the only one that's going up very, very aggressively right now with the numbers.

00:04:28.560 But that's the bad news.

00:04:31.900 That's why we've had to put in some new restrictions.

00:04:33.400 But the good news is that the ratio of those who are diagnosed with the disease,

00:04:40.200 who test positive, who end up in a hospital or worse yet, end up passing away,

00:04:46.000 is coming down, coming down pretty significantly.

00:04:48.780 So that is the, we see in that, the protective effect of the vaccines on the most vulnerable.

00:04:56.580 We'll get to some of those restrictions in just a moment, Premier.

00:04:59.800 But regarding the vaccines, if you've got such an abundance, if I can use the word,

00:05:04.680 are you going to look at shortening that four-month interval for people

00:05:08.160 when you start expanding it a little bit?

00:05:10.200 This has been something that has been repeatedly questioned

00:05:13.220 as to whether it's the most effective way of doing it.

00:05:15.520 And the best answer seems to be that it's only good if you have a scarcity problem,

00:05:19.880 which it sounds like Alberta doesn't have. 0.76

00:05:22.160 So people that had their first dose in February

00:05:24.600 that are supposed to be getting a second one four months after that,

00:05:27.540 are you going to start shrinking that gap?

00:05:30.860 As soon as we can.

00:05:32.060 Look, I think that the science is pretty clear, based on the UK experience,

00:05:36.080 that getting wide coverage with the first dose for the general population

00:05:40.860 has a more protective effect than doubling up on the doses,

00:05:46.180 with one exception, and that's for the very vulnerable.

00:05:48.180 Now, on that front, as I say, Alberta has, I think,

00:05:51.180 done double doses with 7%, 8% of our population.

00:05:54.880 So those would be the very elderly and the most frail. 0.90

00:05:58.520 And we're the only province that's gone long on that.

00:06:00.800 I mean, Quebec is like 1% on the double dose.

00:06:03.560 I think Ontario is 2% or 3%.

00:06:05.080 So we've done, we have focused more on double dose full protection

00:06:10.080 for the most vulnerable.

00:06:12.040 But frankly, if you're a healthy 30-year-old,

00:06:15.040 we just want to get a jab in you.

00:06:16.820 And that will, on the Pfizer, for example,

00:06:20.000 reduce your risk of serious outcomes by 80%.

00:06:23.300 But you're not anticipating at this time,

00:06:25.920 you know, rebooking four-month gapped appointments at this stage?

00:06:29.400 We don't have a plan yet because we, again, we're driving.

00:06:32.360 We think we'll get, we'll exhaust our first dose administration

00:06:37.660 by the latter half of June.

00:06:42.040 And then we can roll forward with the double dose

00:06:44.020 for the balance of the population then.

00:06:46.480 So the four months is not, the 16 weeks is not set in stone.

00:06:49.860 It's the maximum protocol here.

00:06:51.940 And we hope, and I do believe we'll be able to bring it

00:06:53.880 to tighten up that duration.

00:06:55.380 I will point out that there has been a study out of the UK

00:07:01.200 that at least with the AstraZeneca,

00:07:03.880 that there is a greater protective effect

00:07:05.520 with a longer duration between the two.

00:07:07.740 So we're following all the science on that.

00:07:10.540 Let's talk about that trajectory you mentioned

00:07:12.540 with Alberta's cases going up.

00:07:14.940 I know that you've been in a very tricky position in the past.

00:07:18.240 And I think you and I spoke about this in December

00:07:20.600 where you've got a constituency that wants

00:07:23.040 any and all restrictions possible.

00:07:24.980 And you've got another that wants none.

00:07:27.020 And you, like so many of your colleagues across the country,

00:07:29.960 have to find a way to keep both sides happy,

00:07:32.940 which oftentimes ends up angering both sides.

00:07:35.700 But you've prided yourself on having,

00:07:38.700 generally speaking, laxer restrictions in Alberta

00:07:41.360 than other parts of the country.

00:07:43.420 Do you think that is something that can be blamed

00:07:46.440 for you going up when other provinces

00:07:48.440 are seeing their cases go down?

00:07:50.360 Well, I get asked that question every day.

00:07:52.080 And I don't think that's fair.

00:07:53.840 It's a fair question, but I don't think it's true.

00:07:57.640 And I'll give you a couple of examples why.

00:08:00.280 Our neighboring provinces of Saskatchewan and BC

00:08:02.700 have had broadly similar restrictions and policies in place

00:08:06.160 for the past few months through, let's say, 2021.

00:08:09.920 And yet their numbers are dropping pretty quickly

00:08:12.820 and ours are going up even faster.

00:08:16.540 You know, similarly, Montana, just to our south,

00:08:19.560 our neighbors in Montana lifted all restrictions

00:08:23.100 in the third week of January,

00:08:24.900 and they have almost no new cases now.

00:08:29.240 And they're not that far ahead of us on vaccinations.

00:08:32.100 They're about 50%.

00:08:32.960 We're at 40% of population.

00:08:34.420 Now, one caveat there, they had, like most U.S. states,

00:08:37.400 much higher natural immunity through antibodies

00:08:39.140 because there was a lot more viral spread.

00:08:40.660 But the point is that, you know,

00:08:45.020 if you look at the three Western provinces

00:08:47.020 as a case study, broadly similar policies,

00:08:50.520 they're going down, we're going up.

00:08:53.420 That, you know, I have to infer that a couple of things.

00:08:57.080 First of all, we have lower levels of compliance.

00:08:58.940 And I think that may just be because Alberta

00:09:01.080 has more of a freedom-loving libertarian political culture,

00:09:03.980 which I think is a good thing.

00:09:05.920 But it does, unfortunately, mean in this context

00:09:08.440 that there is a larger share of people, I think,

00:09:10.880 who have just moved past all of this

00:09:13.520 and they're just not paying any attention to the measures.

00:09:16.300 Secondly, we have the youngest population by far in Canada.

00:09:19.800 And this disease, as you know,

00:09:21.180 spreads most easily and rapidly amongst younger people.

00:09:24.360 That's not to blame them.

00:09:25.440 It's just younger people are more likely

00:09:26.960 to be out and about and socializing.

00:09:28.440 That's just the nature of people in their 20s and 30s

00:09:31.100 versus those in their 50s and 70s.

00:09:33.240 Thirdly, we have by far the biggest workforce

00:09:38.860 as a share of population,

00:09:40.160 the highest workforce participation rate.

00:09:42.780 So there's a larger number of people,

00:09:44.640 relatively, out and about in the workforce,

00:09:47.560 encountering others and therefore open to infection.

00:09:52.700 So, and finally, we've had pretty crappy spring weather,

00:09:55.080 which has kept people homebound,

00:09:56.620 I think, a lot more than normally would be the case.

00:09:59.200 So I think when you add up all of those factors,

00:10:01.020 that may explain why we've had different outcomes

00:10:06.040 compared to our neighboring provinces.

00:10:08.080 But when you mention that libertarian spirit,

00:10:10.300 are you sympathetic to people that have said,

00:10:13.560 listen, I don't want to play by these lockdown rules

00:10:15.480 because a lot of these people have settled in Alberta

00:10:17.920 precisely because they think that Alberta is the province

00:10:21.080 that isn't going to use that heavy hand of government

00:10:23.180 against its citizens?

00:10:24.200 Yes, I could not be more sympathetic to people

00:10:27.220 who jealously guard their freedoms

00:10:28.820 and are skeptical of government overreach.

00:10:31.960 I always say I'm proud and happy to live in a province

00:10:36.240 where there is a good number of people

00:10:39.020 who jealously guard their freedoms.

00:10:42.340 But in this situation, I think there is some people have,

00:10:47.220 and I say this with respect,

00:10:48.900 have a misunderstanding that if they take the risks,

00:10:54.940 it's only about their own chances of illness

00:10:57.460 and that they as grown as mature adults

00:11:00.780 should be able to make those choices for themselves

00:11:02.760 because it's only going to affect them.

00:11:04.240 And what that view misses, Andrew,

00:11:07.640 is that this is a contagious, virulent, transmissible disease.

00:11:12.960 And so the conduct of each one of us

00:11:15.640 can and often does affect those around us.

00:11:19.560 And the collective action in our society

00:11:22.420 can have devastating impact,

00:11:24.660 whether we like it or not,

00:11:26.300 you just cannot deny that fact.

00:11:28.960 And so, you know, later today,

00:11:31.760 I'll be doing my own interview with a friend of mine,

00:11:34.460 Jay Choudry,

00:11:35.360 who was one of the first people to get COVID in Alberta

00:11:37.820 14 months ago,

00:11:39.560 a healthy middle-aged father

00:11:41.720 who attended a prayer meeting.

00:11:44.700 And there was, you know,

00:11:47.000 no one had any expectation

00:11:48.140 they'd be making each other sick there,

00:11:49.640 but most people at that meeting got sick.

00:11:51.780 Some sadly passed away.

00:11:53.100 My friend spent two months, I believe, in ICU

00:11:56.900 in an induced coma, nearly lost his life.

00:11:59.360 There were people at that event.

00:12:02.940 There was somebody at that event

00:12:03.780 who worked at a long-term care facility,

00:12:06.160 unwittingly brought the virus,

00:12:08.960 we think, into that facility.

00:12:10.280 There were dozens of deaths that followed from that.

00:12:12.640 There was somebody at that meeting

00:12:13.920 who was, I understand,

00:12:16.240 married to somebody who worked at a meatpacking plant,

00:12:18.360 which ultimately resulted

00:12:20.040 in one of the biggest outbreaks in the province.

00:12:21.880 So I'm just giving you an example

00:12:24.020 of how totally innocent behavior,

00:12:26.340 well-intentioned, good people

00:12:28.860 who, at that time,

00:12:32.400 we didn't know about, you know,

00:12:33.900 we were still very early in COVID.

00:12:35.800 We didn't have in place

00:12:37.180 the appropriate protections.

00:12:39.160 But if we'd had restrictions

00:12:41.120 on basic things like that at the time,

00:12:44.460 that alone might have saved many lives.

00:12:47.720 So my point is simply this.

00:12:49.440 I totally sympathize with freedom-minded people.

00:12:54.660 I share their frustration

00:12:56.920 and even their anger

00:12:58.500 at everything that's going on here.

00:13:00.300 But I just beg them to understand

00:13:02.540 that the conduct of each of us

00:13:04.140 can affect others.

00:13:05.020 And right now,

00:13:05.840 if we don't get this spike under control,

00:13:07.900 it will force us, the government,

00:13:10.500 to do mass cancellations of surgeries

00:13:13.060 in order to open up more ICU beds.

00:13:15.680 And so I just say to those people,

00:13:18.920 thank you for being focused on freedom.

00:13:23.940 But please understand,

00:13:25.460 you might have a loved one,

00:13:26.460 a friend, a neighbor

00:13:27.660 who needs that hospital bed, 0.99

00:13:28.980 needs that surgery.

00:13:30.320 We don't want to turn them away.

00:13:32.000 We don't want to hurt them.

00:13:33.320 Please, let's just pull together

00:13:34.560 and protect those folks right now.

00:13:36.160 You mentioned the lack of knowledge

00:13:38.220 and understanding we had about COVID

00:13:40.160 and about the pandemic 14 months ago.

00:13:42.180 That's changed dramatically

00:13:43.520 in the last year and a bit.

00:13:45.260 And you've had restaurants

00:13:46.680 that have put huge amounts of money

00:13:48.240 into installing plexiglass barriers,

00:13:51.140 spacing out tables.

00:13:52.240 You've got other businesses as well,

00:13:54.020 like nail salons, 0.95

00:13:55.280 businesses that were,

00:13:56.620 in a lot of ways,

00:13:57.340 sold a bill of goods

00:13:58.300 that their jobs

00:13:59.300 were going to be protected,

00:14:00.500 that they could find a way

00:14:01.520 to safely operate.

00:14:02.980 And these are now,

00:14:03.880 in much of the province,

00:14:04.780 shut down.

00:14:05.720 So, I mean,

00:14:06.400 why can we not learn from COVID

00:14:08.340 and allow businesses

00:14:09.760 that have made these changes

00:14:11.080 that can offer

00:14:12.160 some restricted service

00:14:13.500 to stay open?

00:14:15.020 It's a totally fair question.

00:14:17.440 I would say that we have.

00:14:18.400 In fact,

00:14:19.420 I've been viciously attacked

00:14:21.320 because our government

00:14:22.160 significantly relaxed

00:14:24.140 public health restrictions

00:14:25.340 in areas like that

00:14:26.800 through most of 2021.

00:14:29.400 We had a big spike in the winter.

00:14:30.780 We had to bring in some restrictions.

00:14:31.980 I started repealing those in February.

00:14:35.420 Exactly for that reason,

00:14:36.820 because,

00:14:37.680 you know,

00:14:38.780 I think most of those,

00:14:40.240 the vast majority

00:14:41.080 of those businesses

00:14:41.620 were extremely conscientious,

00:14:43.940 made investments

00:14:44.840 and took great care

00:14:46.240 to do everything possible

00:14:48.740 to limit spread.

00:14:50.260 And we did not see,

00:14:51.900 we didn't see explosive growth

00:14:53.760 coming from any one

00:14:54.800 of those businesses

00:14:55.960 or sectors in particular.

00:14:58.120 but here's the problem.

00:15:00.700 We've now ended up

00:15:01.560 in a situation

00:15:02.280 where we're experiencing,

00:15:04.720 we're now pushing

00:15:05.520 3,000 daily cases.

00:15:07.300 We have 26,000 active cases.

00:15:11.040 By far,

00:15:11.620 we are over twice

00:15:13.080 the Canadian average.

00:15:15.700 And if we don't

00:15:18.520 hit the brakes right now,

00:15:20.180 we are going to zoom past

00:15:21.900 the maximum capacity

00:15:23.060 of our healthcare system

00:15:24.160 by early June.

00:15:26.260 And so we're at a point

00:15:27.820 where targeted restrictions,

00:15:31.220 like what you're talking about,

00:15:34.040 are no longer effective.

00:15:35.200 We simply have to stop

00:15:36.980 general social interaction.

00:15:38.520 But we're still doing that

00:15:39.820 with a lighter touch

00:15:40.740 than your province

00:15:41.520 and Quebec

00:15:42.380 and most other provinces have.

00:15:44.420 Most European countries,

00:15:45.260 many U.S. states.

00:15:46.280 We have never brought in curfews. 0.98

00:15:47.740 We've never brought in

00:15:48.860 a stay-at-home order.

00:15:51.700 We have fought hard

00:15:53.060 to keep the schools open.

00:15:54.060 They're on a two-week pause now

00:15:55.060 because we're running out of teachers

00:15:56.180 who are on self-isolation,

00:15:57.340 but they'll be open in two weeks.

00:15:58.720 They've been open since last August.

00:16:01.400 We've always kept

00:16:02.380 the vast majority of businesses open.

00:16:04.180 Right now,

00:16:04.700 at least 90% of businesses

00:16:06.400 are able to operate.

00:16:07.160 That is no small comfort

00:16:08.980 to the hair salon

00:16:12.260 or the restaurant

00:16:14.460 that's largely suspended

00:16:16.320 right now,

00:16:17.000 but we've tried our best

00:16:19.080 to keep a balanced approach.

00:16:20.720 But is there any data

00:16:21.860 suggesting that patio spread

00:16:24.860 is a big problem,

00:16:26.040 that hair salon spread

00:16:26.980 is a big problem?

00:16:27.640 Is there any data suggesting

00:16:28.940 that these are at all

00:16:30.760 sources of significant transmission

00:16:32.760 above and beyond

00:16:33.540 what you'd get

00:16:34.520 in workplaces

00:16:35.820 like meatpacking plants

00:16:37.060 or in household social interaction?

00:16:39.160 Well, it's absolutely clear

00:16:41.220 that household interaction

00:16:42.080 is the driving factor

00:16:43.740 for spread,

00:16:44.320 at least here.

00:16:45.420 I think in Ontario,

00:16:46.940 the data suggests

00:16:47.660 there's more workplace spread.

00:16:49.000 Here,

00:16:49.500 as of two weeks ago,

00:16:51.840 based on all of our traceable cases,

00:16:53.880 about only 5%

00:16:55.020 were coming from workplaces.

00:16:56.780 So that begs the question,

00:16:58.260 Premier,

00:16:58.520 why are we shutting down workplaces?

00:17:00.420 Well,

00:17:00.560 I'll just finish it

00:17:01.940 because 30% of the cases

00:17:03.140 we cannot trace,

00:17:04.000 so it's clearly

00:17:04.760 a higher number than that.

00:17:06.280 But the point is,

00:17:08.760 and that's why we resisted

00:17:10.060 suspending any additional workplaces

00:17:11.900 with much criticism.

00:17:13.640 But we're now in a situation

00:17:14.900 where, again,

00:17:16.000 contact tracing

00:17:16.700 is being overwhelmed

00:17:18.120 by the number of new cases

00:17:19.360 and the viral spread.

00:17:22.480 Because, look,

00:17:23.400 we can't stop people

00:17:24.260 from living with others at home.

00:17:27.180 We can't stop

00:17:28.340 at-home transmission.

00:17:30.260 And so we have

00:17:31.780 very few tools left

00:17:33.440 to slow down

00:17:35.020 a transmission.

00:17:36.560 We already have

00:17:37.600 a prohibition

00:17:38.240 on indoor socializing

00:17:39.840 and have had

00:17:40.500 since early December.

00:17:42.640 So if there was

00:17:43.520 some lever

00:17:43.980 that we could pull

00:17:44.820 to mitigate

00:17:46.200 at-home transmission,

00:17:47.200 we would,

00:17:47.460 but we can't.

00:17:48.520 I mean,

00:17:48.700 we've tried,

00:17:49.360 for example,

00:17:49.820 Andrew,

00:17:49.980 we offer free

00:17:51.080 two weeks at a hotel.

00:17:53.060 We offer room and board.

00:17:54.940 We actually pay people

00:17:56.340 to get out of the house

00:17:57.260 and go and do that.

00:17:58.020 Very few take us up on it.

00:17:59.560 So the only interaction

00:18:01.280 that we can stop

00:18:03.160 are things like,

00:18:04.080 at this point,

00:18:05.460 some of those

00:18:06.060 commercial activities

00:18:06.800 where there's socializing

00:18:07.760 or gyms

00:18:08.340 where there's a lot

00:18:08.900 of physical exertion,

00:18:10.660 that can be a cause

00:18:12.100 for spread.

00:18:13.140 But even outdoor fitness,

00:18:14.280 this is one

00:18:14.960 that we've seen

00:18:16.020 numerous studies

00:18:16.720 suggesting it's

00:18:17.560 virtually non-existent.

00:18:19.320 Why was that not

00:18:20.340 at least some middle ground

00:18:21.920 that you could have

00:18:22.500 kept on the table

00:18:23.300 that, you know what,

00:18:24.340 outdoor gatherings

00:18:25.260 can be a little bit

00:18:26.600 more lax?

00:18:27.280 And I know you do

00:18:28.020 have a different limit,

00:18:29.460 but outdoor fitness

00:18:30.300 activities are not allowed.

00:18:31.640 Well, they are amongst

00:18:33.360 people in the same

00:18:34.080 family cohort.

00:18:34.880 And I just was walking,

00:18:38.140 did a walk through a park

00:18:39.360 here and saw people,

00:18:41.140 a group of five people

00:18:42.620 doing some kind

00:18:44.740 of an exercise class.

00:18:46.180 I think that's

00:18:46.580 within the rules.

00:18:47.620 So there is within limits.

00:18:49.120 And I agree with you.

00:18:50.400 We want to encourage

00:18:51.140 people to go outside,

00:18:52.840 get fresh air,

00:18:53.880 get sunshine,

00:18:54.660 get exercise.

00:18:56.220 That's important right now.

00:18:57.560 So, again,

00:19:00.040 we have never taken

00:19:00.740 the radical approach

00:19:01.640 of most European countries,

00:19:03.620 some Canadian provinces

00:19:04.700 and U.S. states,

00:19:05.780 which has been

00:19:06.380 stay-at-home orders,

00:19:07.780 barring people even

00:19:08.540 from going outside

00:19:09.140 and getting exercise.

00:19:10.360 I think that's

00:19:10.900 counterproductive.

00:19:12.080 One thing I would ask

00:19:13.420 you in closing here,

00:19:14.280 you had under

00:19:14.880 the previous restrictions

00:19:16.180 in, I believe, December,

00:19:17.980 put in a fairly

00:19:18.980 transparent mechanism

00:19:20.320 for easing them

00:19:21.260 that communities

00:19:21.840 could strive for.

00:19:23.040 Is that still something

00:19:24.100 you can stick to now

00:19:25.200 under these new restrictions?

00:19:26.320 Well, we still have

00:19:29.020 a regional approach.

00:19:31.240 And if jurisdictions

00:19:32.480 are below a certain threshold

00:19:34.540 in terms of viral spread

00:19:35.720 and active cases,

00:19:36.960 or if they are very

00:19:38.340 sparsely populated

00:19:39.680 rural areas

00:19:40.540 where there are not

00:19:42.580 or cannot be

00:19:43.120 many absolute number

00:19:44.080 of cases,

00:19:45.440 then we give them

00:19:46.800 a relaxed,

00:19:47.620 there are a lot of restrictions

00:19:48.480 that do not apply.

00:19:49.940 So there's right now

00:19:50.540 about 30 communities

00:19:51.600 in Alberta

00:19:52.580 that have a much

00:19:54.740 lighter policy setting

00:19:56.120 because we don't see them

00:19:58.020 as a threat

00:19:58.440 to the healthcare system

00:19:59.460 individually or collectively.

00:20:01.900 But look,

00:20:02.780 here's the bottom line,

00:20:03.680 Andrew.

00:20:03.820 We need to end

00:20:05.240 this current spike.

00:20:07.840 Our numbers have been

00:20:08.740 growing at 2% a day.

00:20:10.540 If you run the math

00:20:11.800 on that,

00:20:12.880 like we have 210

00:20:14.820 now,

00:20:15.820 it's up 215 people

00:20:17.420 in ICUs,

00:20:18.180 both COVID and non-COVID.

00:20:19.280 On a typical

00:20:20.140 non-pandemic year,

00:20:21.500 we have 190

00:20:22.860 staffed ICU beds.

00:20:24.420 So we're already

00:20:25.120 above our typical

00:20:26.200 maximum.

00:20:27.260 We've surged capacity.

00:20:29.400 We've tried to bring

00:20:30.260 on board as many

00:20:31.180 ICU nurses,

00:20:32.680 anesthesiologists,

00:20:33.720 respiratory therapists,

00:20:34.540 and others

00:20:35.060 as we possibly can.

00:20:36.680 We've built

00:20:37.540 overflow capacity.

00:20:39.060 We've stockpiled

00:20:39.860 equipment,

00:20:40.620 but we define

00:20:41.420 our maximum

00:20:42.180 ICU capacity

00:20:43.380 now at 425

00:20:44.680 staffed beds.

00:20:46.400 If we double

00:20:47.460 where we're at now,

00:20:48.620 then we start

00:20:49.160 to run into that.

00:20:50.020 You see that this

00:20:50.620 is the tyranny

00:20:51.220 of exponential growth.

00:20:52.880 We simply have

00:20:53.700 to avoid that.

00:20:54.880 If we can just

00:20:55.520 start bending

00:20:56.100 this number down,

00:20:57.360 the growth down,

00:20:59.040 then I am

00:21:00.720 absolutely optimistic

00:21:02.760 that the vaccines

00:21:03.920 will take over here

00:21:05.300 as they have

00:21:05.960 in so many

00:21:06.500 other places,

00:21:08.160 and we'll be able

00:21:09.400 to get through

00:21:10.320 this darn thing.

00:21:12.420 I believe

00:21:13.460 in the month

00:21:14.440 of June,

00:21:14.940 if we just

00:21:15.820 buckle together here.

00:21:17.040 Premier Jason Kenney,

00:21:18.280 thank you so much

00:21:18.860 for your time.

00:21:20.200 Thanks for all

00:21:20.800 the good work

00:21:21.140 you do, Andrew,

00:21:21.740 and being an

00:21:22.720 independent voice

00:21:23.500 in journalism,

00:21:24.120 I appreciate it.

00:21:24.680 Well, thank you,

00:21:25.260 Premier.

00:21:25.480 I appreciate that

00:21:26.160 as well.

00:21:27.320 That was Alberta

00:21:28.320 Premier Jason Kenney

00:21:30.080 talking about

00:21:30.800 restrictions,

00:21:31.720 vaccines,

00:21:32.440 and the road

00:21:33.300 forward in Alberta's

00:21:34.460 response to COVID-19.

00:21:36.360 We've got to take

00:21:37.020 a break.

00:21:37.380 When we come back,

00:21:38.320 more of the Andrew

00:21:39.080 Lawton Show

00:21:39.560 here on True North.

00:21:40.800 Stay tuned.

00:21:41.300 You're tuned in

00:21:44.880 to the Andrew

00:21:45.680 Lawton Show.

00:21:51.860 We are back.

00:21:53.180 This is the Andrew

00:21:54.140 Lawton Show

00:21:54.800 here on True North.

00:21:56.000 I wanted to jump

00:21:56.920 a few provinces

00:21:57.620 over from Alberta

00:21:58.800 to Ontario

00:22:00.220 with a follow-up

00:22:01.240 on a story

00:22:01.700 I covered

00:22:02.200 in great detail

00:22:03.920 on the previous show.

00:22:05.320 I spoke to

00:22:05.900 Pastor Jacob Rayom

00:22:07.180 of the Trinity Bible

00:22:08.660 Chapel,

00:22:09.060 who at the time

00:22:09.980 was just a few

00:22:11.720 days away

00:22:12.680 from having

00:22:13.360 received a court

00:22:14.980 order shutting

00:22:15.840 down the doors

00:22:16.800 of his church,

00:22:17.800 locking the doors,

00:22:18.640 changing the locks

00:22:19.360 actually,

00:22:20.220 at the behest

00:22:21.000 of Ontario's

00:22:21.900 Attorney General.

00:22:22.680 And this was

00:22:23.060 going to be

00:22:23.320 for one week.

00:22:24.140 It locked out

00:22:24.940 the church

00:22:25.300 for one particular

00:22:26.180 service,

00:22:27.000 and there was

00:22:27.700 another court date

00:22:28.660 on Thursday

00:22:29.500 in which the

00:22:31.000 Ontario Attorney General

00:22:32.260 sought to have

00:22:33.120 this order extended

00:22:34.380 to keep the church

00:22:35.220 locked out.

00:22:36.300 And after a

00:22:37.080 rather brief hearing,

00:22:38.280 the judge granted it,

00:22:39.900 he said nothing

00:22:40.940 has changed.

00:22:41.680 That was basically,

00:22:42.700 and I'm paraphrasing

00:22:43.560 his point,

00:22:44.160 he said the pandemic

00:22:44.980 circumstances according

00:22:46.520 to the government

00:22:47.100 have not changed

00:22:48.020 and the position

00:22:49.180 of the church,

00:22:49.840 which is that if

00:22:50.540 they're allowed

00:22:51.040 in the building,

00:22:51.620 they're going to

00:22:51.860 have service,

00:22:52.600 has not changed.

00:22:53.780 So the order

00:22:54.980 was extended.

00:22:56.920 Now the big issue

00:22:57.700 with it is that

00:22:58.660 this is now

00:22:59.300 an indefinite order.

00:23:00.680 The church will be

00:23:01.720 locked out of its

00:23:02.720 building indefinitely

00:23:04.440 until such a time

00:23:05.740 as the parties

00:23:07.160 can go back to court

00:23:08.280 and have a sanctions

00:23:09.100 hearing that deals

00:23:10.060 with things in a bit

00:23:11.200 more of an evidentiary

00:23:12.120 way or until the

00:23:13.740 restrictions go up

00:23:15.120 to 30% capacity

00:23:16.720 as opposed to

00:23:17.560 the 10-person cap

00:23:19.160 they're at now.

00:23:20.200 And the reason for

00:23:20.900 that is that the police

00:23:22.280 were never charging

00:23:23.020 the church when they

00:23:24.200 were allowed to have

00:23:25.020 30% capacity

00:23:26.180 in the building.

00:23:26.900 So that seemed to be

00:23:27.880 a rule that they

00:23:29.040 either were not

00:23:29.940 breaking or not

00:23:31.560 in an ostentatious

00:23:32.560 enough way that the

00:23:33.320 government was knocking

00:23:34.520 on their door

00:23:35.240 or should I say

00:23:35.840 pounding on their door.

00:23:38.120 Now right now

00:23:39.060 we have a situation

00:23:40.540 in which a pastor

00:23:42.000 and his congregation

00:23:42.980 are indefinitely

00:23:44.680 locked out of

00:23:45.600 their church building

00:23:46.640 in a country

00:23:47.840 that supposedly

00:23:48.760 values freedom

00:23:49.920 of religion.

00:23:51.760 Now this is huge

00:23:52.600 and I was speaking

00:23:53.400 earlier on in the show

00:23:54.400 with Premier Jason Kenney

00:23:55.480 about this

00:23:55.920 and he said he respects

00:23:56.840 that libertarian spirit

00:23:58.580 that freedom-minded spirit

00:23:59.940 that people in Alberta

00:24:00.880 have and I would say

00:24:01.760 frankly people in more

00:24:03.380 provinces should have

00:24:04.500 the problem with

00:24:05.980 folks like that now

00:24:07.240 is that they are

00:24:08.160 finding the boot of

00:24:08.960 government on the back

00:24:09.760 of their neck

00:24:10.240 pressing them up

00:24:11.160 against the concrete

00:24:12.100 ground if they want

00:24:14.660 to exercise those

00:24:16.240 very rights and those

00:24:17.160 very freedoms.

00:24:18.220 And I should say

00:24:18.880 and I'm not a lawyer

00:24:19.720 I sometimes play one

00:24:21.020 on TV in the sense

00:24:21.880 that I cover legal

00:24:23.040 cases so I've had to

00:24:24.040 develop somewhat

00:24:24.860 of an understanding

00:24:25.720 about how these

00:24:26.800 things work but people

00:24:27.900 were asking me on

00:24:28.740 Twitter the other day

00:24:29.500 well hang on how is

00:24:30.580 this constitutional

00:24:31.400 and in short it's not

00:24:32.740 and the government

00:24:33.960 in the past has

00:24:34.960 conceded that its

00:24:36.400 restrictions violate

00:24:37.700 the constitution

00:24:38.540 they've simply said

00:24:40.220 that they are justified

00:24:41.380 in violating because

00:24:43.020 of that so-called

00:24:44.160 reasonable limit section

00:24:45.620 of the Charter of Rights

00:24:47.160 and Freedoms

00:24:47.640 but none of that

00:24:48.720 factored into the case

00:24:49.680 the constitutional question

00:24:51.000 is something that has

00:24:52.280 to be weighed in a

00:24:53.360 bigger trial down the road

00:24:55.140 this was just a very

00:24:56.780 narrowly focused question

00:24:58.300 the judge specifically

00:24:59.240 said listen I'm not

00:25:00.780 here today to look

00:25:01.440 at the constitutional

00:25:02.200 questions I'm here

00:25:03.500 to look at are they

00:25:04.700 going to keep breaking

00:25:05.380 the law are they

00:25:05.980 going to keep

00:25:06.300 violating this order

00:25:07.260 and if so are the

00:25:09.180 restrictions still

00:25:09.880 going to be there

00:25:10.440 and if so all right

00:25:11.820 we've got to keep

00:25:12.700 those locks on the

00:25:13.800 doors.

00:25:14.940 Lisa Bildy who I

00:25:16.120 believe has been on

00:25:16.740 this show before if

00:25:17.500 not we should get her 1.00

00:25:18.160 on she was a

00:25:19.560 tremendous lawyer she 0.97

00:25:21.080 represented a true

00:25:22.200 north and me when we

00:25:24.300 were going up against

00:25:25.080 the leaders debates

00:25:25.820 commission she's with

00:25:26.800 the Justice Center for

00:25:28.240 constitutional freedoms

00:25:29.360 Lisa Bildy did a

00:25:30.760 tremendous job in court

00:25:31.860 she said listen there

00:25:32.720 there is a symbolic

00:25:34.460 there's a violation of

00:25:35.820 these parishioners and

00:25:37.860 these pastors rights

00:25:39.320 yes but she said

00:25:40.500 there's also a symbolic

00:25:41.860 attack on the fabric

00:25:43.860 of a liberal democratic

00:25:45.100 society when the

00:25:46.600 government is locking

00:25:48.180 church doors and an

00:25:50.360 interesting point I have

00:25:51.360 to raise here a lot of

00:25:52.840 people in fact a lot of

00:25:53.740 Christians emailed me

00:25:55.180 after my previous show

00:25:56.660 this week and said

00:25:57.260 well hang on my church

00:25:58.180 is on Zoom why can't

00:25:59.620 this church meet on

00:26:00.440 Zoom my church is doing

00:26:01.520 streaming on YouTube and

00:26:02.700 Facebook why can't this

00:26:04.140 church and there's been a

00:26:05.220 lot of dispute within

00:26:06.800 Christianity within

00:26:08.040 Christian denominations and

00:26:09.500 individual churches about

00:26:11.060 this very question as I

00:26:13.000 said my church has gone

00:26:14.520 virtual the only people in

00:26:16.380 the building when the

00:26:17.240 restrictions are capped at

00:26:18.300 I think 10 are the

00:26:19.560 people that are

00:26:20.140 responsible for being on

00:26:21.800 the stream so the band

00:26:23.080 the pastor the

00:26:24.260 videographer and so on and

00:26:25.880 so forth and the reason I

00:26:27.660 bring that up is to say

00:26:28.780 this churches can decide

00:26:30.680 to do that the whole

00:26:31.760 point of valuing

00:26:32.920 individual liberty is that

00:26:35.060 you value one's rights

00:26:36.520 one's right to set their

00:26:38.080 own boundaries to say

00:26:39.200 listen you know what we

00:26:40.140 don't want to open up or

00:26:41.780 we want to open up with

00:26:42.720 restrictions or we want to

00:26:43.900 reduce capacity or we want

00:26:45.600 to do all of these things

00:26:46.540 that's what choice is about

00:26:48.420 so allowing Trinity Bible 0.57

00:26:51.280 Chapel or Grace Life

00:26:52.920 Church or any other church

00:26:54.040 to open does not force

00:26:56.340 anyone to open it doesn't

00:26:58.020 force anyone to do

00:26:59.120 anything the question comes

00:27:01.320 down to this who gets to

00:27:03.800 decide should individual

00:27:05.740 churches get to decide what

00:27:07.640 is an essential form of

00:27:09.200 worship or should the

00:27:10.780 government get to decide

00:27:12.360 and the fact that the

00:27:14.360 government has said you can

00:27:15.260 have a wedding you can have

00:27:16.240 a funeral means that they

00:27:17.840 understand there is a part

00:27:19.020 of religious practice that

00:27:20.240 cannot take place in a

00:27:21.940 virtual forum or not

00:27:23.760 exclusively in a virtual

00:27:24.880 forum so the government

00:27:25.680 recognizes that some

00:27:27.340 practices of faith must be

00:27:29.260 done in person at that

00:27:30.500 point it's just a question

00:27:32.140 of degrees and if the

00:27:34.360 government concedes that

00:27:35.460 certain things cannot be

00:27:36.620 replicated that is not a

00:27:38.700 situation in which there

00:27:39.780 is a valid substitute to

00:27:41.660 worship for some

00:27:42.860 denominations or for some

00:27:44.180 churches that can take

00:27:45.620 place online if church

00:27:47.120 doors are shut down and

00:27:48.700 by the way I say shut down

00:27:50.100 if you're talking about a

00:27:51.040 restriction at 10 people

00:27:53.040 or 15 people a hard cap

00:27:55.020 it's basically a shutdown

00:27:56.840 you're not dealing with

00:27:58.100 capacity you're dealing

00:27:59.400 with a church that could

00:28:00.200 be the size of three

00:28:01.160 Costco's that can have 10

00:28:02.340 people or a church that's

00:28:03.900 the size of you know a

00:28:05.160 little cubicle at Tim

00:28:06.020 Hortons can have not

00:28:07.600 cubicle they don't have

00:28:08.220 cubicles at Tim Hortons

00:28:09.160 maybe in the remote work

00:28:10.120 era they do what's the

00:28:11.560 word I'm looking for

00:28:12.100 booth vestibule whatever a

00:28:14.220 church that that size can

00:28:15.380 also have 10 people just

00:28:17.000 crammed into it like a

00:28:17.920 clown car so any of these

00:28:19.340 hard numbers that do not

00:28:20.720 reflect the size of the

00:28:22.140 building are completely

00:28:24.300 arbitrary they absolutely

00:28:25.980 are made up and scratched

00:28:27.760 on the back of a napkin and

00:28:28.940 passed off as good policy

00:28:31.000 and this is the problem on

00:28:33.200 one hand we have

00:28:33.860 government saying listen to

00:28:34.920 the experts follow the

00:28:36.120 science and on the other

00:28:37.300 hand no science to be found

00:28:39.740 on a lot of these things and

00:28:41.500 I spoke with also from the

00:28:43.080 JCCF James Kitchen a lawyer

00:28:45.420 who's been very good on

00:28:46.660 fighting a lot of these

00:28:47.400 lockdown tickets a couple

00:28:48.820 of months ago and James was

00:28:50.440 saying that eventually the

00:28:52.100 government is going to have

00:28:53.040 to pony up its evidence if

00:28:55.000 any exists that says masks

00:28:57.120 work that says lockdowns work

00:28:58.940 that says all of these

00:29:00.320 restrictions are valid

00:29:01.520 eventually they're going to

00:29:02.460 have to show their science

00:29:03.780 and I think it'll be

00:29:05.480 interesting to look at the

00:29:06.660 date stamp on that one thing

00:29:08.620 I know from going through my

00:29:10.240 own battle against the federal

00:29:12.420 government over the leaders

00:29:13.540 debates commission is that the

00:29:15.120 dates on documents are very

00:29:16.600 revealing in some cases

00:29:17.820 because we found that the

00:29:18.960 debates commission had a

00:29:20.620 policy that effectively

00:29:22.440 prohibited us from attending

00:29:23.900 the debate but the policy

00:29:25.500 came out the same day that

00:29:28.120 they made the decision to

00:29:29.380 prohibit us so they actually

00:29:30.380 wrote a policy around a

00:29:32.520 decision they had already

00:29:33.400 made and I bet a lot of the

00:29:35.200 so-called science that's

00:29:36.940 backing up some of these

00:29:38.100 restrictions is actually going

00:29:40.380 to have come out after the

00:29:41.940 restrictions were determined

00:29:43.060 and after we're being told that

00:29:44.960 we have to follow the science

00:29:46.120 and I bet that is going to

00:29:47.660 happen that a lot of the

00:29:48.960 science is going to be

00:29:50.020 retroactively applied to the

00:29:52.400 restrictions the government

00:29:53.400 wants to justify we've got to

00:29:56.020 take a quick break when we

00:29:57.560 return more of the Andrew

00:29:58.900 Lawton show here on true

00:30:00.000 north you're tuned into the

00:30:03.400 Andrew Lawton show welcome back

00:30:07.500 to the Andrew Lawton show a

00:30:09.580 really important story that I

00:30:11.360 wanted to get into here not a

00:30:13.340 great story for the country by

00:30:14.780 any stretch but good to have

00:30:16.120 exposed comes from my

00:30:18.320 colleague Candace Malcolm over

00:30:19.840 at true north regarding the

00:30:22.140 federal government's review or

00:30:23.820 lack thereof of groups to put on

00:30:26.500 the terrorism list groups to

00:30:28.360 designate as terror groups you

00:30:30.320 may remember not that long ago

00:30:31.620 the government reclassified as

00:30:33.760 part of its aim to look at

00:30:35.020 right-wing radical extremist white

00:30:37.320 supremacy neo-nazism all of these

00:30:39.340 things it's kind of a mad libs

00:30:40.840 approach they take they put the

00:30:42.960 proud boys on the list most

00:30:44.200 notably and in a lot of cases

00:30:46.460 people were saying all right well

00:30:47.680 are you just expanding the

00:30:48.880 definition of terrorism or are

00:30:50.760 you only looking in one direction

00:30:52.380 politically well what Candace

00:30:54.400 Malcolm did is put forward a

00:30:56.180 freedom of information request

00:30:57.760 asking the government to provide

00:31:00.040 any memos briefing notes policy

00:31:02.560 briefs or other similar documents

00:31:04.920 which is basically a tip speak for

00:31:06.720 anything and everything you have

00:31:08.080 provided to the minister relating to

00:31:10.660 the possible placement of the

00:31:12.240 following groups on the criminal

00:31:14.140 code list of terrorist entities the

00:31:16.880 request listed a number of groups

00:31:19.260 some of which have actually been very

00:31:21.600 clearly linked to political violence

00:31:24.140 one of them was a resistance

00:31:25.820 international east which claimed

00:31:27.720 responsibility for a number of

00:31:29.140 bombings between 2004 and 2010

00:31:31.620 including targets including an oil and

00:31:34.220 gas executive in Montreal and a

00:31:36.520 Canadian forces recruitment center in

00:31:38.800 Trois-Rivières another group on the

00:31:40.920 list was Hamilton against fascism

00:31:43.040 which has been involved in a number

00:31:45.040 of violent attacks and has actually

00:31:47.160 had a leader plead guilty to crime

00:31:50.980 connected with political advocacy and

00:31:53.480 so on and so forth left-wing Antifa

00:31:55.740 connected groups most notably that

00:31:57.940 Candace asked if they were considered

00:31:59.800 when the government was putting this

00:32:02.320 together basically and what happened

00:32:04.620 was in response Public Safety Canada

00:32:07.040 said a thorough search was conducted

00:32:09.300 and we were unable to locate any

00:32:11.600 records responding to your request

00:32:14.300 now normally coming up nil is nothing

00:32:18.020 but in this case the nil result is

00:32:20.340 actually the bombshell that there is

00:32:22.320 not a single record anywhere in the

00:32:23.900 department tasked with evaluating which

00:32:26.180 groups are terrorist groups that was

00:32:28.040 looking at any one of these groups let

00:32:30.620 alone the whole lot of them and I had

00:32:33.360 once nowhere near the scale of bombshell

00:32:36.000 that this story is an example where I

00:32:37.980 reached out to the status of women

00:32:39.560 department and I said I want any and all

00:32:41.280 documents related to your definition of

00:32:44.520 what a woman is and they came back and 0.99

00:32:46.880 said we've got you know no idea what

00:32:48.380 you're looking for and I said listen

00:32:49.520 anything that you have in the status of

00:32:52.120 woman department that says what is a 1.00

00:32:55.520 woman to the federal government and they 0.99

00:32:57.900 eventually came back and said no such

00:32:59.320 records exist anywhere so sometimes

00:33:01.780 nothing being there is a lot more

00:33:04.200 revealing than something being there

00:33:06.020 and in this case it's true that the

00:33:07.800 Trudeau government is according to the

00:33:09.640 ATIP office not interested in extremist

00:33:12.960 left-wing violence they're not

00:33:14.900 interested in political violence or by

00:33:17.200 their own definition terrorism if it

00:33:19.660 comes from groups that do so in the name

00:33:21.920 of some leftist or supposedly anti-fascist

00:33:25.480 principle and again if you're talking

00:33:27.620 about these sorts of things and vastly

00:33:29.540 expanding what you classify as terror

00:33:31.500 it helps to be consistent we've got to

00:33:34.120 wrap things up here my thanks to all of

00:33:36.000 you for tuning in to the show today

00:33:37.780 we'll be back next week with more of

00:33:39.740 Canada's most irreverent talk show here

00:33:41.960 on True North thank you God bless and

00:33:43.920 good day thanks for listening to the

00:33:45.620 Andrew Lawton show support the program

00:33:47.560 by donating to True North at www.tnc.news

00:33:51.960 good day thank you

00:33:53.160 good day thank you

00:33:58.680 good day

00:34:00.960 thank you

00:34:02.780 good day

00:34:04.120 job

00:34:04.780 good day

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Juno News - May 08, 2021

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