Juno News - Jagmeet Singh claims victory over dental care plan

00:00:00.240 Hello and welcome to you all Canada's most irreverent talk show here the Andrew Lawton

00:00:05.480 show on True North on this Tuesday December 12th. I hope you are having a wonderful afternoon as

00:00:12.540 always I have to well not as always but just as occasionally in the last couple of weeks of the

00:00:18.560 year I have to remind you the imminence of Christmas. Now originally this was just meant

00:00:24.060 to be like a warning so that if you haven't done your Christmas shopping yet you can go out and

00:00:27.980 get started. We're 13 days away, but now it's like a hate crime to mention Christmas. The only thing

00:00:33.200 more offensive now is to mention Hanukkah. So I will happily say to all of you, Merry Christmas,

00:00:38.700 Happy Hanukkah. I hope you are, whichever you're celebrating or not at all, I hope you have a good

00:00:43.820 one or both of those. But one thing I wanted to bring up here just before we get into it,

00:00:50.080 there has been this rather interesting trend that has taken place over the last 23 hours.

00:00:56.280 yesterday at the end of the show, I said to send me your questions because I'm going to do like a

00:01:01.060 mailbag type episode next week and field some of your questions. I said they could be about anything

00:01:06.400 and everything. Andrew at truenorthcanada.com is my email address, andrew at truenorthcanada.com.

00:01:13.620 And oh boy, did some of you take that literally. I have had some just bizarre, bizarre questions

00:01:19.180 that have come in to such a point where I was wondering if there was some like elaborate

00:01:23.540 campaign just to throw me off guard. So I don't know, again, I don't know if I'll do all the

00:01:27.700 questions, but I'll try not to filter. I'll give you some of the weird ones because now that I've

00:01:32.160 told you, surely this is piquing your interest. So thanks to those who have sent the questions,

00:01:36.960 except for the one that had a weird one about my socks. And we will get to, maybe I'll do that one.

00:01:41.760 I don't know. Now that I'm thinking of it, that person might've been a bit weird, but anyway,

00:01:46.400 we'll get to the real stuff on the show now. Fear not. This is a bit of an interesting trend

00:01:52.120 we see in Canadian politics, where Jagmeet Singh, the NDP leader, manages to be the most ineffectual

00:01:58.960 leader of the NDP that the party has ever had, which is really an accomplishment for the new

00:02:04.060 Democratic Party. To be less ineffectual, or I guess less effectual, to be more ineffectual

00:02:09.680 as a party is tremendous. I mean, that's the only thing Jagmeet Singh is succeeding at,

00:02:14.280 is being a failure, because he has managed to get no concessions on any of the issues that

00:02:20.440 matter to the NDP, which is, again, particularly exceptional when that party literally holds the

00:02:26.960 balance of power in Canadian politics right now. They could single-handedly take down the

00:02:32.580 Liberal government because the Bloc Québécois is fed up with them, the Conservatives are fed up

00:02:37.320 with them. It is only Jagmeet Singh that is the one who really cares about this. So why it's so

00:02:43.600 interesting is that this is like the dream scenario for Canadian socialists. They're never

00:02:49.720 going to be in government in Canada at a national level, but they have governmental power. And

00:02:54.520 instead they just want to tweet about or post on X about, oh, well, the liberals are failing and

00:03:00.440 grocery store CEOs are bad and oh, billionaires are evil without doing anything. I said a few

00:03:06.760 weeks back when I was in Ottawa, I saw Jagmeet Singh riding away from Parliament Hill on his

00:03:12.080 bicycle. And I was, as I said at the time, so impressed that it was possible to pedal without

00:03:18.340 a spine. But nevertheless Jagmeet Singh has not proved me wrong in the last few days. The big

00:03:24.640 announcement from the Liberals this week, I talked about it a little bit yesterday, is that the

00:03:29.620 Liberals are coming out with a big giant national dental program. Okay what does this mean? Well

00:03:35.620 the Liberals are going to give 9 million Canadians, oh let me look at the fine print, up to 9 million

00:03:43.640 canadians dental insurance now this is going to uh basically mean that low-income uninsured

00:03:49.880 canadians will have access the government says to dental care by virtue of the government giving

00:03:56.120 them a dental insurance plan now this sounds big it sounds transformative well it's not the

00:04:01.160 universal dental care plan that the ndp has always wanted nowhere near that it's not even a new

00:04:07.160 program this is just an expansion of an existing program that already existed that the liberals

00:04:13.400 wanted that dealt with youth, that dealt with minors and children. And now we're just talking

00:04:20.020 about expanding this ever so slightly. And if you were to talk to the NDP right now,

00:04:26.140 they think that they've pulled off the greatest coup, the greatest achievement, the greatest win

00:04:31.440 in Canadian politics. I'll show two clips. This is Jagmeet Singh talking about this

00:04:36.720 phenomenal NDP victory. Friends, the day has finally arrived. The NDP dental care program

00:04:43.760 has finally been announced and that means the rollout is going to start very soon. So I want

00:04:49.080 you to make full use of this program. I've spoken to people who were able to access the under 12

00:04:54.820 program and it changed the lives of so many kids in our country. I want to make sure you and your

00:05:00.320 family can access this program. So now that it's been announced, the best way for you to get all

00:05:05.560 the details for us to get those details to you about how to enroll how to access a program is

00:05:10.560 just to text us text us hashtag NDP dental and we will give you all the details about how to enroll

00:05:17.280 how to access program as soon as we get those details so again I'm so excited this is great

00:05:23.020 news and now we want to make sure you can access it so definitely text us and we will give you all

00:05:28.500 the information i haven't yet texted jagmeet singh i i maybe well maybe i will later maybe i'll send

00:05:36.440 him a text later on we'll all well you can ask him about his socks uh but that is uh one of the

00:05:41.220 things he's asking people to do you hear the branding there the ndp dental program the ndp

00:05:45.820 dental program it was the ndp dental program announced by the uh wait wait for it oh the

00:05:51.780 liberals sorry okay it was the liberal dental program but you know the ndp is getting a little

00:05:56.080 bit excited no one has been as excited about this as ndp member of parliament don davies though

00:06:03.220 take a look at don in the house of commons this week thanks to new democrats nine million

00:06:09.980 canadians will have access to the dental care they deserve seniors children people with disabilities

00:06:15.260 will soon be able to go to the dentist without worrying about the cost because of the ndp

00:06:19.640 families will save thousands of dollars during an affordability crisis this is the biggest

00:06:24.420 expansion of public health care in half a century.

00:06:27.860 Shamefully, last week the Conservatives again voted no to dental care and putting money

00:06:32.880 back in people's pockets.

00:06:34.500 Can the Minister explain the impact of the NDP dental plan on Canadians?

00:06:41.860 The Honourable Minister of Health.

00:06:44.700 In a time of great global difficulty, in a time where people all over the world are

00:06:49.940 finding things hard, there are those that stand up and provide solutions.

00:06:53.800 and talk about how we make things better.

00:06:56.140 And I want to recognize the NDP in stepping forward

00:06:59.020 and talking about solutions, about talking about answers.

00:07:02.460 When we saw the Conservatives voting against dental care,

00:07:05.480 voting against support for seniors,

00:07:07.460 voting against support for patients with disability,

00:07:10.120 voting against our children who need dental support.

00:07:13.280 Shame on them, Mr. Speaker.

00:07:14.700 And congratulations to any party that stands up for ideas

00:07:18.980 and getting things done in this country.

00:07:23.800 I love just the juxtaposition.

00:07:26.840 I mean, they're talking as though they're on the same team there.

00:07:29.360 But the NDP is like, will the liberal minister talk about how great the NDP is?

00:07:33.600 The liberal minister gets up.

00:07:34.800 He's like, yeah, we're happy with any party that wants to help us do this.

00:07:38.640 Sean says it reminds him of Howard.

00:07:41.180 That is a deep cut.

00:07:42.460 How old were you during that campaign?

00:07:44.140 Yeah, Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont, who when he ran for president was

00:07:49.160 like listing all the Sean says he was four.

00:07:51.400 Well, you were a very astute, politically aware four-year-old at the time.

00:07:55.380 Yeah, he like yelped and screamed as he was reading all the states that he was campaigning in.

00:08:02.000 And that basically cost him the election because everyone looked at Howard Dean and in America was like, oh, I don't want that.

00:08:07.080 I don't want a guy that like shrieks like a little girl to be the president of the United States. 1.00

00:08:11.980 So that was the thing. So I was and I was not getting a Howard Dean vibe from Mark Holland.

00:08:16.220 I was getting a Dwight Schrute blood alone moves the wheels of history vibe with a bit of a smile.

00:08:21.400 that was more the vibe i was getting there but just on the merits alone the ndp is saying this

00:08:28.060 is an ndp plan and the liberals are like yeah it's a liberal plan but you guys helped out and

00:08:32.480 thanks and and shame on those evil nasty conservatives that uh you know wanted kids to 1.00

00:08:36.800 have cavities or whatever the point was that mark holland was attempting to make there but 0.78

00:08:41.380 this is the ndp doing a victory lap and it's not even the biggest thing they wanted it's not even

00:08:46.620 new so let's go back to the supply and confidence agreement which is the coalition excuse me sorry

00:08:53.740 coalition the uh costly coalition as the conservatives call it between the liberals

00:08:59.020 and the ndp that came in the wake of the 2021 election the agreement if you look at the bullet

00:09:05.180 points there what they've all said they're going to launch a new dental care program for low-income

00:09:11.260 canadians it's going to start with 12 year olds in 2022 then it's going to expand and in 2023 it's

00:09:17.260 going to be there for seniors and persons with disabilities with full implementation by 2025.

00:09:23.900 so this was already what they had agreed to and the thing is it was already something the liberals

00:09:29.100 wanted it was something the liberals campaigned on now you look at other things that have been

00:09:33.500 proposed there they are nowhere to be found for example the ndb's pursuit of a universal national

00:09:41.180 PharmaCare program, which was supposed to come by the end of 2023. Now, by my count, that is,

00:09:48.620 what, 19 days away is my math right there? 19 days. They have to come up with this National

00:09:55.940 PharmaCare program, which just is not happening right now. Now, to be clear, I am not advocating

00:10:02.420 for these policies. I'm not saying I want these things. I'm not saying that Canadians should have 1.00

00:10:06.960 to pay for them. What I am pointing out is that the NDP and the Liberals have always been singing

00:10:12.880 from the same songbook on this, and even then the Liberals are not doing what the NDP wanted.

00:10:18.660 The NDP could literally hold this government to account in a real way by saying, you do this by

00:10:24.380 December 31st, or we pull your support, we go to an election, and Justin Trudeau is going to be

00:10:29.180 surfing full-time on the beaches of Tofino. But that's not what the NDP is doing, because to do

00:10:34.560 that, you require a spine. To do that, you require a backbone. And now we have in Canada, this

00:10:43.320 government that effectively operates with a majority mandate because the NDP is not wanting

00:10:49.380 to do its role of being an opposition party. Now I've played these clips on the show and I

00:10:56.100 partially I'm doing it just because it's fun. I don't want to pretend that there's like a really

00:10:59.700 serious point, but I'll try and make a serious point out of this. The NDP has in the past tried 0.61

00:11:05.040 to position losses as victories. Do you remember Jagmeet Singh's dance moves after the 2019 election?

00:11:12.600 Pepperidge Farm remembers.

00:11:29.700 yeah that was i love the song by the way i don't know the song i don't know what the words are the

00:11:44.320 words could be uh we're going to be a failure as a party and not do anything in punjabi but

00:11:48.860 uh nevertheless he's dancing he's got good beats and good grooving and all of that i'm not arguing

00:11:53.380 with the dance moves but this is a guy who won 24 seats going into the election he had 39 seats

00:12:04.180 he comes out with a 15 seat loss gets 15.98 percent of the vote and he's dancing as though

00:12:13.620 he won now this surely was a one-off right well let's go to the 2021 election in this election

00:12:19.940 Jagmeet Singh had started with 24 he went up a little bit he went to 25 seats this election 17

00:12:27.060 of the vote a slight improvement but do the dance moves fit the achievement let's take

00:12:41.460 uh that was a bit more of an austere dance move i mean on that election he had actually gone up

00:12:45.700 uh at least a seat so you think he'd be able to be a little bit more forceful but he'd used up

00:12:49.380 up all the good moves in 2019. Jagmeet Singh, you could be the most powerful and influential player

00:12:56.400 in Canadian politics. It pains me to say that and the fact that you don't realize it or don't use

00:13:01.880 that power is why you are never going to be the Prime Minister. That's not an endorsement or an

00:13:07.280 anti-endorsement. I'm simply stating an observational fact there. Moving on from this for just a few

00:13:14.040 moments here, I wanted to talk about this somewhat breaking story that came out today where Canada

00:13:19.340 has, alongside several other countries, effectively started calling for a ceasefire in Israel. This is

00:13:27.700 a joint statement by the prime ministers of Australia, Canada, and New Zealand. They say

00:13:33.020 in this statement, I won't read the whole thing, that we want to see this pause resumed. They had

00:13:38.900 Israel and Hamas, a humanitarian pause, and support urgent international efforts towards a sustainable

00:13:45.380 ceasefire. This cannot be one-sided. Hamas must release all hostages, stop using Palestinian 1.00

00:13:52.280 civilians as human shields, and lay down its arms. There is no role for Hamas in the future 0.66

00:13:57.780 governance of Gaza. So there is still criticism and condemnation for Hamas, but effectively this

00:14:03.900 is a statement that is endorsing the idea that it is incumbent on Israel to lay down its arms and

00:14:10.200 stop fighting against the brutal terrorist group that killed more than 1400 israelis and has

00:14:17.140 continued to wage war on israel and has called for the annihilation of israel and the jewish state

00:14:22.980 israel is not supposed to fight back against those people now if you don't follow this issue or you

00:14:28.840 don't follow geopolitics which i would forgive you for not doing you may not understand what's at

00:14:33.660 stake here the word cease fire sounds nice who doesn't like cease fire it's the same as peace

00:14:38.760 Peace is great. Everyone loves peace. Give peace a chance, right? But the problem with a ceasefire

00:14:43.440 is that it's rooted in a fundamental idea that Israel does not have the right to defend itself.

00:14:49.200 And I am fully sympathetic to the realist position here that Canada and the U.S. and the U.K. should

00:14:55.040 not be involved in a foreign war. But supporting Israel is not about involving yourself in a war.

00:15:00.740 It's about just looking at a situation and realizing what the right thing to do is. And

00:15:05.440 This idea of whether supporting Israel is meddling or whether it is something that is in a country's national interest has become an interesting discussion.

00:15:13.980 And it's one that I wanted to take up with Brian Lee Crowley, who is the managing director of the McDonnell-Laurier Institute.

00:15:20.320 I ran into him when I was in Alberta a couple of weeks back filming some interviews with other folks.

00:15:25.020 And I said, Brian, I got to get you on this.

00:15:26.900 And it has made it well, it's really made itself out to be a timely and prescient interview.

00:15:31.980 Take a look.

00:15:33.280 I'm joined by the Managing Director of the Macdonald Laurier Institute,

00:15:37.880 which is, well, I don't want to say very quickly because you've been putting the effort in,

00:15:40.960 but has very notably been becoming just an absolute powerhouse on so many discussions

00:15:45.880 on domestic policy and foreign policy in this country, Brian Lee Crowley.

00:15:50.300 Always a pleasure. Good to see you, Brian.

00:15:51.780 Hendrick, I can't tell you how much I like being on the show with you.

00:15:54.900 Oh, well, thank you.

00:15:55.780 I'm glad to do it in person.

00:15:57.120 Yeah, yeah.

00:15:57.960 Actually, I don't know if we've heard of it with you on the show in person.

00:16:00.360 I know we've done panels together.

00:16:01.520 Well, look, foreign policy is often one of these issues that you get people in politics that occasionally like to geek out on and people, the conventional political wisdom dictates are not really motivated by it.

00:16:14.340 Voters don't really care about it.

00:16:15.680 But this has been a year in which I'd say it has been on the agenda, both with China notably and now really notably the Middle East and Israel.

00:16:24.920 And let's just start there, because Stephen Harper, when he was in power, had a very markedly

00:16:31.720 strong position on Israel.

00:16:33.600 He was very well liked there, very well regarded there.

00:16:36.540 Donald Trump in the U.S. did something very similar.

00:16:39.500 He moved the embassy to Jerusalem, which was supposedly going to open Pandora's box and

00:16:45.140 really hasn't.

00:16:46.680 Now you fast forward to today, we have Justin Trudeau, who's the prime minister in Canada,

00:16:52.720 and I think has kept the Canadian position of support for Israel,

00:16:56.700 but a lot more modestly.

00:17:01.080 Where would you say, well, I don't think I'll be appointed ambassador anytime soon,

00:17:06.200 but why does that relationship matter for Canada?

00:17:10.840 Oh boy, that's such a great question, Andrew.

00:17:13.380 I think because the Middle East is one of the most important

00:17:18.880 and most volatile places in the world.

00:17:21.100 And because Israel is an island of liberal democratic values in a sea of instability, autocratic regimes, dangerous behavior by Iran, Syria basically engaged in a killing spree of its own citizens.

00:17:42.820 I mean, in every part of the Middle East, danger signals fly.

00:17:48.300 And, you know, we as a liberal democratic world, not just Canada and the United States, but our NATO allies, all of whom rely, for example, on energy that comes from the Middle East.

00:18:00.640 What happens in the Middle East matters enormously to us.

00:18:03.400 And in a sense, I think Israel is the canary in the coal mine. 0.96

00:18:09.100 As long as Israel survives and thrives in the Middle East, 1.00

00:18:15.280 I believe that we in the liberal democratic world

00:18:18.120 can continue to defend our interests in that region.

00:18:21.400 And if ever Israel was to falter and fail,

00:18:24.320 I think it would be disastrous for all of us.

00:18:26.340 So it's not just that I think that this is important for Israel.

00:18:31.580 Obviously it is.

00:18:33.200 What's going on is an existential threat to Israel. 0.74

00:18:36.520 But it's also terribly important to us. We have huge interests at stake in the Middle East. And the only people who see the world in the way that we do, from a liberal democratic perspective, the only people are the Israelis. 0.90

00:18:52.500 one of the challenges we've seen on the domestic front on this is that there's been a an increase

00:18:58.940 in especially on the political right i'd say and in isolationism and i'm sympathetic to a lot of

00:19:04.900 that i'm sympathetic to the idea that so we need to be more independent and protective of our

00:19:09.280 sovereignty and i i'm very sympathetic to the argument that getting involved in conflicts that

00:19:14.640 don't affect us is not advisable and that you can be trapped in foreign wars certainly in american

00:19:20.200 context. But why is that? I mean, that attitude, I'd say, has reared its head in very ugly ways

00:19:27.280 on Israel, when you get people that say, it's not our problem, I don't care. What's your thought

00:19:32.300 on that? Because I know you've seen that similar to me, and certainly on Ukraine and Russia,

00:19:36.460 we've seen that attitude. Yes, and you know, it's quite astonishing to me that people in Canada

00:19:42.860 might not get the idea that as a medium power in the world,

00:19:49.520 an important medium power, you know,

00:19:51.380 we're one of the 10 largest economies in the world,

00:19:54.160 we have some weight in the world.

00:19:56.960 But that Canada, somehow people seem to think we can make it alone,

00:20:05.140 you know, that we don't need to rely on other people

00:20:07.620 who see the world we do in the way we do,

00:20:10.460 and that we promised to support them

00:20:12.800 and they promised to support us

00:20:14.220 when push comes to shove.

00:20:17.140 I mean, this is why we were one of the founders of NATO.

00:20:19.860 The whole idea of the United States,

00:20:21.120 the fundamental motivating idea

00:20:25.500 behind the creation of NATO

00:20:26.680 was that other than the United States,

00:20:29.300 none of us could stand alone

00:20:30.560 in the face of an existential threat.

00:20:33.360 We rely on each other.

00:20:35.540 We have promised each other

00:20:36.720 if someone attacks one of us,

00:20:39.440 they attack all of them.

00:20:40.460 This idea of mutual defense and, you know, the idea that we can afford to be indifferent to the fate, especially of other countries, you know, that subscribe to liberal democratic values, that we could stand aside from those things.

00:21:01.840 And, you know, as the old saying goes, you know, we keep feeding the tiger and the oath that he'll eat us last.

00:21:09.700 You know, we're in Ukraine and we're supportive of Israel because the things that they represent, as far as I'm concerned, are things that Canada wants to defend in the world and we can't do it alone.

00:21:23.080 and so we must be prepared to step up when those values are challenged anywhere in the world

00:21:29.560 because you know if we don't the next place they'll be challenged is a lot closer to home

00:21:33.980 well i think on israel we certainly see that i mean you talk about israel as being a canary in

00:21:39.260 the coal mine and i think the anti-semitism that we've seen shockingly brazen displays of

00:21:45.600 in the last two months in canada are a tremendous example of this and i think you could point to a

00:21:51.340 number of factors here. I think you can point to immigration, you can point to education, you can

00:21:55.720 point to, you know, perhaps some of the media playing a role in this and academia playing a

00:22:00.520 role in this. But all of this is to say, if we allow those ideas to exist unchallenged and

00:22:07.300 uncriticized, there is no Israel. And that's, I think, a tremendous, tremendous display. And I 0.79

00:22:13.980 think that's where the story is very much a domestic one, as much as it is a global one.

00:22:19.300 Yes, I have to say, Andrew, I've been deeply disturbed by what I've seen in Canada over the last couple of months.

00:22:27.080 I have had Jewish friends come to me and say, you know, Brian, I never thought I'd say this, but if it comes to that, will you hide me?

00:22:38.100 Well, will you hide me?

00:22:40.240 I never thought that I would see circumstances in Canada in which our Jewish citizens would be frightened that there was no longer a place for them and that they might actually physically be threatened.

00:22:53.240 And now, of course, we see, you know, university professors arrested and charged with vandalism against a business in Toronto.

00:23:03.560 What was the what was the reason for the vandalism?

00:23:05.500 It was owned by a Jew, owned by a Jew. 0.91

00:23:08.940 And so these are...

00:23:09.900 Oh, it's a crystal note.

00:23:10.860 I mean, that's the thing.

00:23:11.860 People overuse Nazi and Holocaust comparisons,

00:23:14.280 but this is literally what happened in 1930s here.

00:23:18.080 And, you know, my Jewish friends say to me,

00:23:22.460 look, you know, people say that they're sympathetic and so on,

00:23:26.980 but people are not speaking up.

00:23:29.420 And, you know, I think that the idea that what's going on,

00:23:36.320 for example, between Israel and Hamas is about foreign policy and not about the nature of Canada

00:23:45.460 is completely wrong. I think what the conflict between Hamas and Israel is bringing to the

00:23:51.920 surface conflicts that we didn't really think existed in Canada, we're discovering otherwise.

00:23:58.780 Well, and that's, I think, one of the big challenges of multiculturalism. Now, let me say, 1.00

00:24:04.120 I believe that I wouldn't go so far as to say the diversity is our strength in the Tridopia way. 0.99

00:24:08.580 But I do think one of the things that makes Canada so unique is that it has this this cross section.

00:24:13.160 But the challenge there is that we've seen an importation of conflict.

00:24:16.280 Yeah. You know, Calistan is a notable example of this.

00:24:19.460 And as we're seeing in the last couple of months, Israel.

00:24:22.060 And can you put the genie back in the bottle on it?

00:24:25.980 Well, you see, I think that one of the things that we don't really understand very well as Canadians about immigration is that people don't come here, by and large, to live as they lived in the country that they came from.

00:24:45.940 It's expensive and disruptive to immigrate.

00:24:48.840 You don't come so that you can do exactly the same thing here that you were doing back home.

00:24:52.760 People don't come here to change Canada.

00:24:55.660 People come here to be changed by Canada, to become Canadian. 0.84

00:24:59.320 And I think it's terribly important that we understand as Canadians what it is that is great about Canada

00:25:08.020 and that we are completely entitled to demand that newcomers to Canada respect and understand.

00:25:15.280 And I think this idea that, well, you know, look, I'm the great-great-grandson of immigrants from Ireland, and you know that the Irish imported some conflicts between North and South, between Irish and English and all.

00:25:38.100 Eventually, we were able to get rid of those, that transplanting of... 0.95

00:25:43.460 I was going to say, they haven't necessarily there, but certainly here they have.

00:25:47.160 We managed to get that under control.

00:25:50.400 So, you know, my family has some experience of this.

00:25:55.920 You know, the first major political assassination in Canada, Darcy McGee,

00:26:02.060 was killed by, you know, an Irishman bringing that conflict to Canada. 0.96

00:26:07.420 um so we have a stake uh as a society that is dependent on immigration and that appreciates 0.99

00:26:17.480 immigration and wants immigration but we have a responsibility to make sure that we make clear

00:26:23.100 to newcomers to this country you can't do certain things here with you because it conflicts with 0.83

00:26:29.280 what makes Canada great it conflicts with the rule of law it conflicts with the respect we have to

00:26:33.840 have for each other the the different backgrounds and ethnic origins and so on that we have

00:26:39.840 and there is no place in my view for you know immigrants to Canada to congregate in their

00:26:51.980 tens of thousands in major cities in Canada and call for the death of other members of the

00:26:58.000 canadian community this is not polarity in a society like canada and i think we're we're too

00:27:05.140 afraid to defend the values which actually make canada a place worth coming to uh and i think

00:27:13.780 the conflict uh with israel uh between israel and hamas uh is giving us a great object lesson

00:27:22.240 and how important it is to be clear

00:27:24.560 about what it means to come to Canada

00:27:26.360 and the behaviours that Canadians will accept.

00:27:31.840 Brian Lee Crowley.

00:27:32.700 Thank you.

00:27:33.460 Bye, Mary.

00:27:35.080 That was my interview with Brian Lee Crowley

00:27:38.440 of the Macdonald-Laurier Institute.

00:27:40.220 It was recorded a couple of weeks ago.

00:27:42.300 I always like to give that context.

00:27:44.260 But in that case, there really wasn't anything

00:27:46.120 that has become outdated.

00:27:47.480 And I'd say, if anything,

00:27:49.040 it's probably become even more accurate

00:27:51.860 and more truthful as time has gone on and we've gotten a bit more of a sense of how things are

00:27:58.000 shaking out. One issue I wanted to bring up that's completely unrelated to this. Yesterday I had like

00:28:03.760 a great segue from one topic to the other. Today I don't have that so we just have to do the back

00:28:08.300 when I worked in talk radio like commercial breaks were great because you could just like go to

00:28:11.640 commercial and not have to worry about awkward transitions or anything like that but nevertheless

00:28:16.460 wanted to talk about generosity it's a season of giving of course although not as much in Canada

00:28:22.780 this year a new report from the Fraser Institute finds that generosity is at a profound low there's

00:28:30.320 been a steep decline and Canadians are no longer giving now is this because Canadians are greedy 1.00

00:28:36.640 and miserly or is it because they are simply so cash strapped from all of these other circumstances

00:28:42.340 they can't afford to be giving with as much generosity as they have previously.

00:28:48.600 Jake Fuss is the Director of Fiscal Studies with the Fraser Institute and joins me on

00:28:53.020 the show.

00:28:53.520 It's always good to talk to Jake.

00:28:54.900 Jake, good to see you again.

00:28:55.900 Thanks for coming on today.

00:28:57.400 Good to see you.

00:28:57.960 Thanks for having me on.

00:28:58.980 So we'll get into the why in a moment, but let's just first identify what the trend you're

00:29:03.360 seeing here is.

00:29:05.020 Yeah, well, every holiday season, we track the generosity of Canadians looking at donations

00:29:08.820 claimed on your tax returns.

00:29:10.200 And what we found is that in 2021, we saw that the lowest percentage of tax filers were making donations since the year 2001.

00:29:18.720 So less than one in five Canadians on their tax receipts were making those donations.

00:29:23.920 It was about 17.7% of Canadians.

00:29:26.340 That compares to 2001, where it was about 25.2% of tax filers making those donations.

00:29:32.180 So we've really seen a steep decline, not only nationally, but just in every province across Canada.

00:29:37.260 It's not unique to Ontario. It's not unique to Alberta.

00:29:39.860 it's really occurring across all of the provinces in canada and it's a trend that we've been seeing

00:29:44.980 consistently over the last two decades now one of the challenges of course here is that you're

00:29:50.500 you're a couple years behind on on the data you have available 2021 uh we have of course inflation

00:29:57.220 cost of living issues you also have lingering effects of lockdowns you have some of these

00:30:02.500 covet issues how much do you think those are weighing on this versus some of the broader

00:30:07.140 economic trends and the climate that we're still seeing in 2023? Yeah, I mean, those could

00:30:13.280 certainly be a factor. But I mean, what we see is that this has been a trend before COVID, during

00:30:17.560 COVID, and then it's likely going to be a continuing trend coming out of COVID as well when we get the

00:30:21.940 data for 2022 and 2023 from the Canada Revenue Agency on those tax slips. So ultimately, you

00:30:28.180 know, it's really been a sign of broader economic concerns over the last number of years and the

00:30:33.620 last number of decades, too. We've really seen that consistent decline in all provinces in Canada,

00:30:39.620 both in the share of income that's being donated to these charitable organizations,

00:30:43.440 and also then the percentage of taxpayers making those donations. So it's really been this

00:30:48.500 consistent concerning trend. And it hasn't really, you know, had too much of an effect with COVID or

00:30:53.880 before or after, you know, likely moving forward with cost of living and housing remaining

00:30:58.980 consistent issues to, we could possibly see even further declines in the years ahead.

00:31:05.560 I know the data do not tell you the why. They just tell you the what. And you can see that

00:31:10.880 pretty clear. But is there any other, I know Cardus has done some work on this in the past.

00:31:15.340 Are there any good compelling explanations for what is driving this trend? Because as you mentioned,

00:31:20.040 and when you look at the chart, it's a pretty straight line. I mean, you get a few blips here

00:31:24.440 and there. But generally speaking, it's a pretty clear decline. Do we know why that is or have

00:31:28.940 suspicions of why that is? Yeah. So even though we don't track the exact reasons why this occurs

00:31:34.260 in our study, we do know possible reasons why people choose to give to charities through economic

00:31:40.140 research. And what it generally points to is generosity is often sensitive to how much after

00:31:45.420 tax income people have available to them. So if your income levels are not increasing or your tax

00:31:50.540 bill is going up, for instance, then you have less money available to you to make those charitable

00:31:55.000 donations. Other things that can also play a factor in why people choose not to give or choose

00:32:00.940 to give would be, you know, things like religious affiliation, the age of the population, generally

00:32:06.240 the older you are, the more likely you are to donate. Also education levels. These are all

00:32:11.840 things that can play a determining role in whether or not people could choose to give to charitable

00:32:16.640 organizations. But ultimately, I think, you know, one of the big factors here is possibly after tax

00:32:22.480 income, because that is one of the sensitive factors to charitable giving in general.

00:32:28.640 I'm speculating here, but when you mention after tax income, I think there are two aspects. One is

00:32:33.240 just how many dollars do you have to give? How much discretionary income do you have? And the

00:32:37.800 other, I think, is the one, and this will be a bit harder to quantify, but what message is the

00:32:42.680 government sending when they're taxing you? They're basically saying, we're taking care of people you

00:32:46.420 don't need to. And I think that must be factoring in to some extent where you get people that are in

00:32:51.360 a situation where they assume that, well, if I'm being taxed, you know, this much, maybe I don't

00:32:55.920 need to donate to charity to solve these problems. I'm sure government's looking after it.

00:33:00.620 Well, one of the things that we've seen really recently is the tax bill is rising much faster

00:33:04.740 than the costs of basic necessities like food, shelter and clothing even. So even though those

00:33:10.000 costs are going up, tax bill is going up even faster. So that obviously leaves less money

00:33:15.000 available for not only basic necessities, but other things as well, whether that's entertainment

00:33:19.460 or remaining expenses to give to charitable organizations too. So currently in Canada,

00:33:24.580 about 45% of the average family's income is going towards their tax bill. And that's more than what's

00:33:30.460 going towards basic necessities. So about 36% of your income is going to housing, food and clothing

00:33:36.600 combined. So this is a really concerning trend that we've seen now for consistently really over

00:33:41.740 last decade or two in Canada and it's probably going to continue for the foreseeable future.

00:33:47.020 And I know this goes outside of this particular study but you've done some work in the past I

00:33:51.260 think it was earlier in the fall where you looked at just rising federal spending and there was no

00:33:56.460 real tax relief that was being put to Canadians or is being put to Canadians by the government is

00:34:01.180 there? Nothing really tangible at the moment right now I mean and we're really in need of some tax

00:34:06.540 reform in Canada because you know we have this waning productivity challenge we have collapsing

00:34:11.580 business investment in Canada. We also have concerns with living standards as our real GDP

00:34:16.760 per capita, which is basically a broad measure of living standards in Canada, has either been

00:34:20.900 declining or stagnant for quite some time. So even though our economy is growing overall,

00:34:25.460 our income levels on a per person or per household basis are not really increasing over time.

00:34:30.540 So there's a lot of concerns here with the tax system in Canada. And even though we have this

00:34:35.500 massive kind of increase in government spending over the last eight years or so, we haven't really

00:34:40.200 seen the results from an economic growth standpoint. So we've seen debt increase quite

00:34:46.240 massively. We've also seen that spending increase by about 25% since the beginning of COVID as well.

00:34:52.480 And we have this bigger size of government, but we don't really have much to show for it.

00:34:56.620 So ultimately, we need to pursue policies that actually boost that economic growth,

00:35:00.920 actually improve the living standards for Canadians, because right now we're not seeing

00:35:04.160 those results. Well, it's a bit of a far-fetched Christmas wish, but I think definitely a worthwhile

00:35:09.100 one. Jake Fuss, Director of Fiscal Studies for the Fraser Institute. Thanks for coming on, Jake.

00:35:14.240 Thanks very much for having me on. Yeah, look, I mean, Cardis has done some very useful work on

00:35:20.080 this. The Fraser Institute annually does work on this that's very solid, and they look right at

00:35:24.240 the data. I mean, it's a pretty unavoidable reality. These are the things. I mean, theoretically,

00:35:29.120 people could be donating to non-registered charities or not claiming their charitable

00:35:33.440 contributions on their taxes. By the way, if you are donating to charity and not claiming your tax

00:35:38.080 receipt on your taxes, you are giving Justin Trudeau more money and you should be ashamed

00:35:41.740 of yourself. Same as in Ontario, we have this line item on our tax returns called the Ontario

00:35:47.760 Opportunities Fund. Now, what you might ask is the Ontario Opportunities Fund. It is a voluntary

00:35:54.380 payment to pay down the provincial debt that you can do. So I could like willingly say,

00:36:00.020 you know what, I'd like to donate my tax refund to cover the terrible, horrendous spending

00:36:06.220 decisions by this government. Anyone who pays the Ontario Opportunity Fund should also be ashamed

00:36:11.580 of themselves. This is like, it's an early festivus here. I've got a lot of problems with

00:36:15.400 you people, as Frank Costanza would say. Well, we are coming out of time today, but I mentioned

00:36:21.540 earlier on this comparison that Sean raised between Don Davies and Howard Dean. And instead

00:36:27.640 of just paying attention to the show, Sean has apparently just put this clip together that I'm

00:36:32.100 to show for you now last week the conservatives again voted no to dental care and putting money

00:36:38.340 back in people's pockets can the minister explain the impact of the NDP dental plan on Canadian

00:36:44.400 all right well so you're forgiven for like not paying attention to the Brian Lee Crowley

00:36:52.020 interview Sean that was uh 13 seconds well worth the wait there uh that does it for me we will be

00:36:58.260 back tomorrow with more of Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show. We got a special interview with Mark

00:37:02.620 Marano, fresh off his trip to Dubai for COP28. Always a good time. I don't know if he rode the

00:37:08.940 camel in like he did to Sharm el-Sheikh at COP27 in Egypt. I don't know. Surely there are some 1.00

00:37:14.860 camels in Dubai. I mean, they're probably like Maserati camels or Lamborghini camels, like

00:37:18.880 only the high-end designer import camels, but I'm sure they exist there. So we'll check in with

00:37:24.200 mark morano on tomorrow's show also speaking of ontario uh no don't tune out if you're from

00:37:29.580 alberta uh we're going to be chatting about this phenomenal new book about mike harris and his

00:37:34.040 legacy which is a story about conservatism as much as it's a story about ontario politics that's also

00:37:39.520 on the show tomorrow and lots of other stuff coming up in the remaining week here so do tune

00:37:44.320 in we will talk to you tomorrow thank you god bless and good day to you all thanks for listening

00:37:49.860 to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:37:51.640 Support the program by donating to True North

00:37:53.600 at www.tnc.news.

00:38:19.860 We'll be right back.

Juno News - December 12, 2023

Jagmeet Singh claims victory over dental care plan

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript