Juno News - James Topp isn’t finished his monumental march across Canada

00:00:00.000 hey everyone welcome back to the show today i have a fascinating guest i'm sure you'd love to

00:00:25.000 hear from him i'd like to introduce you to warrant officer james top james as you probably know has

00:00:31.980 marched all the way from vancouver to ottawa protesting the vaccine mandates and other

00:00:37.580 restrictions that have been in place since the pandemic he left vancouver february 21st finally

00:00:44.280 arriving here in ottawa june 30th a day before canada day he covered roughly 4 300 kilometers

00:00:50.880 over a five-month period his journey ended at the national war memorial where he paid homage at

00:00:57.460 the tomb of the unknown soldier i was there at the national war memorial and i witnessed him being

00:01:04.600 greeted by at least a thousand or more supporters and well-wishers james's march isn't quite done yet

00:01:11.320 he's recently announced that he's going to be marching onward to signal hill newfoundland james

00:01:17.680 has been criticized by sections of the mainstream media for protesting the vaccine mandates

00:01:22.780 he's also aroused some controversy by choosing to announce his march while wearing his military

00:01:29.820 uniform as a result he faces possible disciplinary action by the military i'll be speaking to james

00:01:37.040 about all of this and much more trying to understand the inspiration behind canada marches

00:01:42.660 why james continues to march and how he hopes that the march and the movement around him will change

00:01:49.180 things for the better in canada so on that note please welcome james hi james it's great to have

00:01:56.000 you here and i'm so glad that you made the time to um chat with me for a few minutes um and uh so i

00:02:02.660 wanted to first begin by asking you uh what inspired you to march from vancouver to ottawa and you've now

00:02:10.520 recently announced that you you're marching from ottawa to signal hill newfoundland in a few days

00:02:16.160 uh what is the inspiration behind the second part of the march the second part of the march is um

00:02:22.820 i think just to to maintain the momentum and visibility that we've achieved thus far

00:02:29.320 um i think it's important to um make sure that people are aware of the present circumstances and

00:02:38.380 that with regards to you know what what started all this was um you know without going too too too far

00:02:46.920 into the weeds with it you know it was the implementation of pandemic measures what we were told

00:02:51.360 was to mitigate this um disease called covid and then that that evolved into into a number of

00:02:59.720 different things which eventually culminated in august of last year with the announcement that

00:03:04.300 vaccine was going to be required for federal government employees and also a number of corporate

00:03:10.400 sectors took that on board as well and then we had this um the creation of this new kind of um

00:03:17.260 discriminatory system whereby if you weren't uh willing to disclose your vaccination status which

00:03:24.080 i think is a private medical concern not really that should be open to anybody to know and or you

00:03:31.060 are not going to get vaccinated which i also have serious questions about um based on what i'm seeing

00:03:37.940 and hearing about the safety and efficacy of this particular vaccine

00:03:41.840 um so that brought us to this situation back in november i was affected personally as i know a

00:03:49.800 number of other federal government employees and a number of other citizens were also affected

00:03:54.080 uh fast forward to january we had the protest um that is really what i think you know is

00:04:00.940 lit a fire underneath a lot of people and that they saw finally

00:04:05.320 um canadians from all walks of life and uh from across the country kind of joining together in

00:04:12.620 ottawa to make their their voices heard and to to uh air their grievances and you know they were not

00:04:19.400 heard um so on one hand i was insulted and another hand i was inspired yeah and then so on that you

00:04:26.680 know um when you were marching from vancouver to ottawa uh what was the reaction from people you met

00:04:32.460 along the day along the way were people generally supportive of what you were doing or did you meet

00:04:37.180 a lot of hostility along the way uh and i i think you're in a unique position james in in telling us

00:04:43.680 what the pulse of the nation is because you've met average canadians who are um you know far removed

00:04:49.420 from the corridors of power um you know how do you think that they're feeling at this time what do

00:04:53.780 they think of the country right now of where we are right now yeah it's difficult for me to gauge

00:05:00.680 at where we are at the present but i can tell you um as you know uh i on february the 12th i went out

00:05:07.140 in uniform i thought the issue was so severe that i needed to make my voice for utilizing that

00:05:13.400 um kind of tool that i had which in it was weird to say that i am a currently serving member of the

00:05:20.680 canadian forces and um i went out in uniform made a public statement critical of this particular policy

00:05:26.300 and um there are repercussions and we can talk about that after but i knew there would be however

00:05:33.720 like i said i thought it was severe enough for me to say something and do something about it

00:05:37.860 and um i basically as soon as that video hit the internet i was approached by um people wanting

00:05:47.820 to be a part of it and assist me either on the ground or online so uh with that i was able to kind

00:05:56.140 of get support in um the physical world with you know regards to um people joining me and i initially

00:06:04.020 thought this was going to be potentially a one-man show just just me marching and you know doing what

00:06:09.520 i thought i needed to do to to kind of um address this issue of my conscience and and then uh well

00:06:18.240 too i had you know folks wanting to help me online with regards to media relations and establishing and

00:06:24.640 uh maintaining a uh presence online so that people could be educated about what i was doing so it just

00:06:31.200 started immediately i mean i mean immediately and this uh this was going on i made this announcement in

00:06:38.480 february right before the implementation of these emergency measures because i could kind of see

00:06:44.000 where everything was going and that was the direction that was taking and i was you know

00:06:50.000 kind of distressed that you know the state our federal government would take these actions against

00:06:55.040 protesters um who were trying to uh you know get a point across there didn't seem to be any kind of

00:07:01.760 willingness on on the part of the government to to hear what was being said and come to come some

00:07:06.960 kind of solution so obviously this is i wasn't the only person who was distressed by this and when

00:07:15.600 i did make the announcement i said i was going to leave vancouver on february the 20th and uh it is the

00:07:21.840 support there at the terry fox memorial at 7 30 on a sunday morning there was probably over 100 people

00:07:28.240 who came to see me off and after we decided to march away there was probably 70 70 people marching with me

00:07:35.760 out of downtown vancouver so um it has been it has been overwhelmingly positive like i mean

00:07:44.720 and i've used i've said this before and i'll say it again just to illustrate the point the number of

00:07:49.120 folks who came to me and said i want to be a part of this i want to help you what you're doing is

00:07:54.000 important thank you for what you're doing this has given me hope like i mean this is this has happened

00:07:59.680 since the beginning and the number of folks who had come to me and said okay stop what you're doing

00:08:06.560 um this is why you should stop this is my argument and you know um with the with here's the analysis

00:08:12.800 i have these are the reasons and so forth that has happened um you know compared to the thousands of

00:08:19.280 people i met between vancouver and ottawa who encouraged me the people who hadn't something um

00:08:25.120 um to say with regards to why i shouldn't do it is zero like i mean nobody nobody came forward there

00:08:32.080 was a lot of negativity sometimes with regards to people driving by and having something to

00:08:37.920 derogatory to shut out the window but that is as far as it ever went so it has been overwhelmingly

00:08:43.520 positive and um despite the stresses um the physical hardship and the challenges this was uh you know

00:08:52.800 i'm i'm very lucky to have been able to to do this and meet all these uh um amazing people yeah so

00:09:00.000 when you when you finally got to ottawa on june 30th you paid homage to the tomb of the unknown soldier

00:09:06.080 uh what was that experience like uh i also noticed i happened to be there and i noticed that as you

00:09:11.600 arrived at the center tap you were greeted by thunderous applause uh i imagine there may have been at least

00:09:17.840 a thousand people there uh your supporters and well-wishers were you at all surprised at how

00:09:23.680 much your march has resonated with people um you know and how did you feel when there were all those

00:09:29.760 people there to greet you and many of them were very emotional and they were crying there were lots of

00:09:34.640 tears um there were kids uh there to greet you how you know were you at all how did you feel about

00:09:41.040 it were you overwhelmed was it an emotional moment for you yeah it was overwhelming it was uh an emotional

00:09:50.000 roller coaster ride but i was i was explaining this in an interview early to earlier today it's difficult

00:09:58.720 to put it into words because i mean in in one way this was uh it was a completion it was a celebration

00:10:07.600 and another way um you know i i had envisioned this from the beginning you know where i was

00:10:12.880 going to start from and where i was going to end and in my mind's eye i always saw myself in that

00:10:18.320 position and you know putting my hand on that tomb knowing that what i had done was in the spirit of

00:10:24.080 veterans and and not just veterans but you know canadians who came before me and made a sacrifice for the

00:10:29.360 good of uh of this country that we that we believe in and the system of government um and you know

00:10:40.240 i i said and and with the help of the team this this was accomplished um it was completed successfully

00:10:48.400 um the march again you know you you commented yeah i think there was probably more than a thousand

00:10:53.040 people there because at one point marching through ottawa we had um three people uh abreast and marching

00:11:01.280 um with a with a line of people almost a kilometer long so i mean that was just that was just folks

00:11:06.240 following us from into downtown so knowing that this this and this was facilitated by uh veterans and by

00:11:16.400 canadians who who listened to what we were saying and they understood what this was about this was a

00:11:22.640 peaceful demonstration and um they took that on board and they uh you know they conducted themselves

00:11:27.920 accordingly in the discipline which is one of the things that we were trying to demonstrate you know

00:11:32.720 myself as an armed forces member this is how um you achieve things right it's through organization

00:11:38.880 it's a discipline we we met people we we like we asked them to line up and march with us in this

00:11:45.040 fashion so to make this demonstration and it was an amazing experience and apart from one minor

00:11:51.120 altercation that i know was kind of zeroed in on by uh um the corporate sector there and with regard to

00:11:57.760 information um sales but um they uh the the the it was such a successful event and the positivity around

00:12:08.720 it and and folks yeah like you said they resonated putting my hand on that and knowing it was complete

00:12:15.680 we achieved the goal um everybody made it nobody you know there was no serious incidences along the way

00:12:22.880 from i mean you know february till june end of june yeah it was an amazing experience and then knowing

00:12:29.440 that i was also there to kind of um pay my respect to those who who have you know personally worked with

00:12:37.920 and who are not uh in our forces who are no longer with us and and you know that that was part of the

00:12:44.800 reason why i was doing this it was paying respect to them and paying respect to those veterans who were

00:12:49.280 also present in ottawa in january and february and they were there standing shoulder to shoulder with

00:12:56.080 you know canadian citizens showing uh that solidarity and being there with them and demonstrating that kind of

00:13:02.720 component of um you know the armed forces that uh believe that there's something that was needed to

00:13:10.720 be said and a problem that needed to be addressed so absolutely there was um this kind of whirlwind of

00:13:17.920 emotions which was uh was like overwhelming and then um that that moment passed and it was amazing

00:13:27.440 that like i really wasn't conscious of it but i know that there was a you know a significant moment

00:13:32.880 of silence while that happened and again that speaks to the people who were there to how much

00:13:39.200 they believed in it and they were they were being um respectful of each other and what i was doing and

00:13:46.880 yeah it was an amazing experience i like i said despite the hardship and what brought me into

00:13:51.200 this position i'm very fortunate to have been able to you know be a part of this and yeah

00:13:57.760 having managed to make it successful um so there have been some reports in the mainstream media that

00:14:04.960 you're likely to be court-martialed um and um and i've read some comments that you've made earlier that

00:14:11.840 you're not too worried about it um and you kind of expected this to happen um could you explain to

00:14:17.760 those of us uh who don't know how a court-martial works uh what is involved and whether there's any risk

00:14:24.560 uh that you might end up in a military jail uh does that worry you and um and and also actually i'm

00:14:30.960 really curious what made you decide to march in your uniform in the first place yeah i think because

00:14:38.080 what what it needs to be understood is that this was this was a mandate being imposed on us with

00:14:43.840 regards to and i've heard the arguments uh you know yes the armed forces are required to get immunization

00:14:50.160 to become operational typically however those immunizations have been studied and been in use

00:14:55.920 for a significant period of time which is the exact opposite of this uh particular um um substance in

00:15:05.920 fact what we're calling a vaccine and then um that so you you know i had that concern i had that

00:15:12.880 question furthermore this implementation of the system where you know you are even on a military base

00:15:18.960 you're required to disclose your vaccination status just to go to the mess hall or the gym um you know

00:15:24.240 this is a discriminatory system that i don't believe in this is something based on medical choice on a

00:15:30.240 on a a a product that is said to be safe and effective yet requires a never-ending uh updating or

00:15:39.840 you know frequent boosters i i'm you know it's beyond me how this is not being called into question

00:15:46.960 and furthermore to be told that after all this time and unfortunately that you know this is

00:15:51.440 the way i'm going to be released um i wanted to make sure that it was perfectly clear that uh

00:15:57.040 yes i'm a public servant but i'm not a servant okay like i do i serve the canadian public i don't respond

00:16:03.600 to um this kind of um and and bluster and you know these threats and this coercion that was going

00:16:12.400 that was being put into place i actually had a interview with uh with uh with a fellow from

00:16:18.320 canadian press and he said well you know they're they the arguments are that are being made are false

00:16:24.480 equivalencies as far as i'm concerned with regards to well are we are we now going to allow everybody

00:16:29.440 to question operational decision and um my answer to that is yes yes they should if they're not if it's

00:16:36.880 not clearly spelled out why we're going into an operational theater to engage in a shooting war

00:16:42.400 then why wouldn't we question what we're doing so this is um part and parcel of why i did what i did

00:16:49.600 i have uh i'm a human being just like everybody in the armed forces uh we have that ability to ask

00:16:57.840 questions and have our rights observed just like the rest of the country so that was why i put my

00:17:02.080 uniform on um and i knew that there would be repercussions i'm willing to take um my response

00:17:10.400 for responsibility for what i did like i said um i uh mad i knew that this would be coming and i think

00:17:18.640 that the release of this information is a strategic communication tactic in order to um you know uh

00:17:32.560 uh cast cast uh negative light on on the march itself and the reasons behind it and you know the success

00:17:39.840 of it and everything else because obviously there's um there's a there's a a song sheet that's being

00:17:46.880 passed around within these corporate media outlets and for for some reason this is the way that it needs

00:17:53.680 to be sung to the canadian public which i actually don't understand however um i think that

00:18:02.000 this was a strategic release of information it's old news being reported as new news and to be

00:18:06.720 perfectly clear to everybody when i was charged uh with two counts of article 129 under the national

00:18:15.760 defense act and just to put it in a language that's perfectly clear it's misconduct for the most part

00:18:23.200 but um it's a little bit um the phrasing is a little bit different it's conduct prejudice of

00:18:28.400 the good order of discipline and the exact verb which escaped me um my lawyer that i was put in

00:18:36.640 touch with through the jccf um advised that i go to court martial and i asked for a court martial back

00:18:44.560 in march because we felt that this was a way for us to speak at length about how i came to this decision

00:18:52.880 and why i came to the decision and it would allow my my legal counsel to demonstrate that um you know

00:19:00.240 the motivation behind mandating these um the vaccines or disclosing the status is not is is a violation of

00:19:10.880 of human rights so um the the potential uh the difference between um or sorry let me just clarify

00:19:23.840 what happened military toughness typically a member of the armed forces is charged with an offense

00:19:30.080 there is an investigation they uh the charges are then um laid formally and then what happens is uh the

00:19:40.640 member is informed he has a right to participate in the investigation for myself i i exercise my right

00:19:46.880 to remain silent um there is the opportunity now for the member to choose typically between a summary

00:19:54.240 trial and a court martial the difference is that a summary trial is typically held at a lower level of

00:20:00.560 chain of command and it is typically uh less powers of punishment and it is is brought to a conclusion

00:20:08.480 in a much uh faster rate than would happen at a court martial so a court martial involves a significant

00:20:16.240 amount of bureaucratic and legal work on the part of clerks and legal officers uh there's a selection

00:20:23.920 of the uh of the authority who's going to oversee the court martial or preside over it this is this is a big

00:20:30.400 deal and um but again we were prepared for that uh again with my with my counsel advice uh we

00:20:38.320 we asked for a court martial because we felt that this was like i said i felt this is a significant

00:20:43.760 violation um you know of such a magnitude that i put my uniform on and went out in public

00:20:51.600 and said something about it because what it comes down to is i saw something was wrong

00:20:58.000 and i set up and i said something about it and i decided to do something about it

00:21:02.160 in a peaceful or organized constructive fashion so if uh when the court martial happens now realize

00:21:09.440 too that this unless it is uh significantly up expedited um which would call into question a number of things

00:21:20.240 um this this could take months if not years to see uh it addressed and um if uh you know

00:21:27.600 uh we don't know what the state of the country is going to be in that time um i am confident in

00:21:33.920 canadian armed forces officers to to um ensure a fair trial is conducted and uh if that's the case

00:21:41.920 then i believe that you know um absolutely um there would be some penalty uh potentially but um if in

00:21:51.200 the event that we are still politically motivated and justice is going to be politically motivated then

00:21:56.880 you know the potential for me to face severe consequences is is large and uh it bothers me

00:22:03.200 not at all because um i'm i'm prepared i think if i am sent to jail for uh this i i am going to be in

00:22:12.080 jail uh with the ability to look at myself in the mirror and um i'm okay with that and that should be

00:22:19.120 a further demonstration of just far how far we've fallen yeah if that's the case and what if it's

00:22:24.720 expedited you said that it would call into question um certain things uh what are those things i mean

00:22:32.160 what uh what would we the uh what what should we understand from that if it were to be expedited

00:22:40.080 i think that it would it would point to a you know a motivation um uh probably with regards to political

00:22:50.080 um aspiration um aspiration on some parties to have this kind of put out there so again it can be

00:22:56.480 painted in a negative light what i said and what i did and the reasons why i came forward and spoke

00:23:01.920 out against this this policy which has divided the country in ways where it was you know still coming

00:23:06.800 to grips with and if that's the case that's this is not true justice this is not military justice this

00:23:13.520 is like i said this is a process that requires time for both parties to get their evidence together

00:23:21.840 their arguments together um establish what is going to be who is going to preside over the proceedings

00:23:28.960 and so forth and so on and typically uh a court marked rules are something that are avoided unless

00:23:37.120 consequent or the uh the charge is extremely severe because they take a significant amount of time

00:23:43.520 to to uh to uh action okay yeah um you said recently that one of the causes for which you're marching

00:23:54.080 are military personnel who have been dismissed under 5f um which as i understand it is someone who by

00:24:01.920 their own choice makes themselves unfit for duty um have i understood 5f correct correctly here yeah there's

00:24:09.600 also a part that says it is uh inability or unwillingness to change your behavior but uh more

00:24:15.840 or less it's an administrative release based on on this kind of behavior so this sounds like a very

00:24:22.480 extreme interpretation of a decision to not get vaccinated uh do you think that there's any

00:24:27.680 possibility that the military might change their thinking on this and allow military personnel either to

00:24:33.440 be honorably discharged and collect their pension because i think one of the things that you did mention is

00:24:38.960 that some under this you you're not uh you're not eligible to get your pension um or you know i'll just

00:24:47.680 i'll just stop you there just to make sure that this is properly understood okay so i personally am

00:24:53.040 collecting a pension because i did 28 years of regular fourth service okay that like everything that's going

00:24:58.880 to happen um will not affect my collecting the pension because it's my regular fourth service has come and gone

00:25:06.000 okay however i am concerned about those members who have completed like 19 years so it's not my case

00:25:13.520 i'm worried about i'm worried about those members in the armed forces who have been released on 5s

00:25:21.280 who were at the point where they could have been receiving their pension after 20 years of honorable

00:25:28.800 service but they've been denied it because they've been released 19 years and six months and those

00:25:36.720 folks will be denied a pension there'll be a lump sum payout okay but this is probably something that

00:25:42.160 they don't would not rather have they would probably wrap their chin that they've been working towards for

00:25:48.640 20 25 30 years okay i see and i i'm just curious why is this issue not received the attention that it

00:25:55.760 deserves it it seems fairly big and it's one of the reasons that you're marching for uh yes exactly

00:26:02.480 yeah with the why why hasn't it been receiving any attention because it is entirely um um disgraceful

00:26:09.760 yeah i've i struggled very uh you know i've been struggling to find uh reporting on this since you

00:26:15.120 mentioned it because i went went on the internet and i've been looking for news stories or any attention to this issue and

00:26:21.760 uh barely find anything so it's it's quite extraordinary that uh if not for you if you

00:26:27.120 hadn't mentioned this i don't think most most canadians would would even be aware of uh section 5

00:26:32.320 a 5f and uh and and you know and uh people who have been affected by that yeah yeah and exactly that's

00:26:38.800 one of the reasons why i'm doing it and the canadian public should know about this and and should the

00:26:44.800 armed forces um you know realize what what's happening here i think there's a significant um

00:26:54.800 effort that they should make again this is going to speak to a piece that i talked about um federal

00:27:00.880 government workers have been invited back to work um that that's a positive however um armed forces

00:27:08.240 members have not been as i understand it unless the situation has changed and furthermore um there

00:27:14.960 are a number of those who have been released under this 5f code um i don't think they should have been

00:27:21.920 released they should have been allowed to stay in the armed forces and if they have been released on

00:27:26.800 5f i think they should be invited back as well and all and exonerated and have this kind of thing

00:27:32.480 removed from their record yeah and and so james what are your longer term plans uh do you see canada

00:27:40.080 marches remaining a uh grassroots apolitical movement or do you think to achieve your goals

00:27:46.720 you might need to throw your support say behind uh an existing political party that shares uh is

00:27:53.440 sympathetic towards your cause or perhaps you might even want to consider starting your own political

00:27:59.280 party um the reason i ask is that in our system things ultimately only change through our elected

00:28:06.320 representatives so i'm wondering how you navigate the balance between being a grassroots apolitical

00:28:12.240 movement and the desire for a change in direction that which would presumably have to happen at the

00:28:18.080 ballot box because canada has always been an evolutionary not a revolutionary country and like

00:28:24.400 our neighbors to the south yeah good question um ultimately you know what i would really like is

00:28:31.680 to have my job back um and that would be amazing and then i would potentially hand these uh the reins of

00:28:38.560 this organization off to somebody else um however if i must continue with it that's what i'll do

00:28:44.720 to answer your question i think that one of the things that i've learned is uh based on my observations

00:28:51.120 over the last four and a half months and it's one of the things i kind of brought to the attention of

00:28:54.720 our members of parliament when i was able to have that meeting um on the 22nd of june where i i have

00:29:02.880 seen this kind of with along with folks coming out to tell me how they were happy about seeing me out

00:29:10.480 there they finally felt they had a voice you know this was something that uh they found they said was

00:29:17.920 important to them um i'm i'm hearing from them uh that they also feel disenfranchised with the system

00:29:26.640 they feel they don't have that their vote their votes don't matter and that there's no um

00:29:32.720 recourse okay for when it comes to these kind of things like these this this kind of mandate that

00:29:37.040 was put into place without any kind of public discussion so uh to a point i agree with them and

00:29:43.280 as much as i i was a federal government worker like i don't want to engage in politics i have to

00:29:49.680 say that you know i've come to kind of be a representative of sorts to the folks that i've

00:29:55.280 met along the way so having said that i i realized that you know when you are marching for 10 to 12

00:30:02.320 hours a day and um in the way that i do it i'm not distracted i have to stay focused on the horizon

00:30:08.080 and what's around me and you do some serious thinking and what you know it doesn't take a

00:30:13.520 lot of imagination or intelligence to see that um there's an imbalance here uh canadian people are 0.56

00:30:20.240 unaware of the power that they hold as citizens okay as taxpayers as voters so if it came to it um

00:30:28.080 you know what's it going to take for them to re-engage uh they need to be informed they need to be

00:30:33.600 educated they need to be told exactly what they need to do and to that point i think we are we were

00:30:39.120 able to show them that this system still does work in a fashion because the representatives who came to

00:30:45.840 speak to me on the june 22nd the ones i extended an invitation to they did so for the large part at the

00:30:52.720 behest of their constituent so this is a demonstration of what it takes to to get folks to realize that

00:31:00.800 they are voters and they are taxpayers they have representatives in government working on their

00:31:06.880 behalf even though that's sometimes forgot and i think what i see happening is that you know if i am

00:31:13.920 you know unfortunately you know i i shouldn't say that unfortunately if i am put in this position

00:31:20.960 where i am going to be at this you know educational campaign so to speak um then that's that's what i'll

00:31:29.360 do like i mean it doesn't have to be me there's a number of folks who come to these same conclusions

00:31:34.800 i just captured you know some attention and some some of the public imagination you know what i would

00:31:40.880 just advise folks to do is educate themselves on the system how it works what they need to do to take

00:31:48.080 take control over the system because again they need to realize that their representatives ultimately they

00:31:54.560 work for them the canadian public has representatives to act on their behalf and that's what it's going

00:32:01.280 to take so you're saying that you have no political aspirations or ambitions of your own no okay not

00:32:09.600 at all i would like i i i can't even begin to tell you how i would rather not do anything like that okay

00:32:17.360 um you've been in some pretty dysfunctional places uh such as a former yugoslavia uh these places you

00:32:24.160 know literally fell apart in a matter of weeks and months after apparently being uh very stable for

00:32:29.760 decades now our democracy in canada is pretty resilient our institutions have generally been

00:32:35.360 strong but in recent years they've come under strain and the social fabric um as you yourself

00:32:41.600 have pointed out has been freeing especially in the last couple of years uh since the pandemic uh with

00:32:47.360 the government's use of harsh measures um vaccine mandates and most recently the trudeau government's

00:32:54.720 uh crackdown on peaceful protesters by using uh the emergency uh emergency measures um i we think that in

00:33:03.200 canada you know we're you know we think that everything is going to be okay um despite all our problems

00:33:10.400 do you think that sometimes we are a bit too complacent uh about how good we have it here um

00:33:18.240 based on what you've seen overseas are there any lessons here for canada

00:33:24.720 yeah i have to be careful how i phrase this lest they get taken out of contact by um third party but um absolutely

00:33:31.200 there is a level of complacency here and um you know and the thing is it comes down to

00:33:39.440 the fact that um our society for the most part has sustained itself and um you know we've built an

00:33:46.880 amazing thing here so you know for for what we have had happen to us with with the implementation of

00:33:52.480 these policies um it has created a divide unlike anything we've ever seen so is this a strain on on

00:34:00.320 folks yes it is this is easier to go along to get along uh i i i can understand why it would be

00:34:08.080 because who wants to be in that position where they're not getting paid now and they have a

00:34:12.080 family that they have to look after and then then you have this this kind of verb um underneath the

00:34:19.200 surface of it all um and i'm i'm speaking to this because i've spoken to people who've told me

00:34:25.360 that this is this there's a level of rage that they have experienced because they felt coerced into

00:34:32.240 complying with these mandates in order to get paid and that's not something that's going to go

00:34:36.720 away unless we address it in some fashion um furthermore um you know whether or not the pandemic

00:34:44.240 can be you can you know be said to be the cause of this uh economic downturn uh rising interest rates

00:34:51.920 uh gas prices that are at all-time highs like i mean these all contribute in a way i think that we as

00:34:58.800 canadians are going to hold it together and um i i am i am fairly confident in that i i do think that

00:35:06.400 there's definitely you know there's this this anger seething underneath the surface and it needs to be

00:35:11.840 addressed um because um you know it's it's furthering the divide okay and then it's it's this bad feeling

00:35:23.600 that unless um we do something about it it it creates more distrust and more fear and more separation

00:35:32.320 and more folks who want to leave it this isn't this is mostly what i'm encountering folks who i've met

00:35:40.080 along the way who now um they want to leave canada and this to me is astonishing because this used to

00:35:48.720 be you know for a place where people from around the world who are disadvantaged are coming to realize

00:35:55.440 a better life for themselves and now we have folks who want to leave the country because they are afraid

00:36:00.400 of their own governments and i i think it's um an unacceptable situation that can be addressed

00:36:06.480 through peaceful protests and with law-abiding measures by educating and informing and again

00:36:13.600 um engaging the public to or sorry enabling the public to become engaged in the system yeah uh you've

00:36:22.720 talked about redirecting canadian society to where it should be and you've uh talked about restoring

00:36:28.960 balance in the system uh what do you what do you mean by restoring balance and where do you think

00:36:34.080 uh canada should be um according to you um well it's it's like i had tessled the members of parliament

00:36:43.760 yeah um you know to me there's been it appears okay and i think uh this can be unequivocally um proven

00:36:54.480 that mandates and measures were put into place without the proper risk benefit analysis uh they were put in

00:37:02.000 place without a public discussion um you know there was no input from the canadian public so how

00:37:07.120 is that a balance there's no balance there um you know we just because uh you don't have a title

00:37:14.160 doesn't mean that there doesn't there shouldn't be a public discussion on some of these things

00:37:19.600 uh and especially with uh with the potential for um for damage to be done like we've seen with the

00:37:28.080 implementation of these mandates so um how do you address that like again and i'll say it it's it's

00:37:33.600 empowering canadians to realize that um they do have a level of control over the system provided they

00:37:42.240 inform and engage and this is what it's going to take so it doesn't mean that um you know you're you're

00:37:51.920 you're you're encouraging them to behave in any way that's not lawful but they can still work together

00:38:00.240 um in an organized fashion like i demonstrated like we demonstrated that you know when i asked

00:38:07.040 for that meeting with members of parliament most of them were there because they were asked to do to

00:38:11.680 be there by their constituents that's how it works yeah so you have a representative

00:38:17.120 that is responsible that was responsive to his constituencies and if we have this across the

00:38:23.520 board then this is how we have the appropriate balance that's needed um so large sections of the

00:38:32.240 mainstream media have either tried to ignore you or or they've tried to smear you and your organization

00:38:38.480 um how does that make you feel does that bother you um and i and you know let's say you've been

00:38:44.160 marching for ukraine across the country for ukraine's freedom do you think the mainstream media would

00:38:50.560 have reacted differently no i got um to uh the point where um i'm okay with it i'm not exactly happy

00:39:00.800 about it like you said if i was to have been marching for a different um cause okay quote unquote uh

00:39:09.600 definitely i do believe you know i would probably have my own um retinue in a bus and number of other

00:39:15.120 perks that i don't have available now but um the uh the fact is that this is not a popular thing to be

00:39:23.040 engaging in in this current um climate and the media landscape is not friendly to the things that i'm

00:39:29.520 saying and of course this kind of um a lot of this is being painted um as something negative and i'm

00:39:38.320 i'm perplexed because nothing that we've done is outside of the law uh you know i haven't been

00:39:44.000 approached and have met with canadians from all walks of life from all backgrounds from all income

00:39:52.080 brackets okay and um to have you know these these name calling and the smears it does it does bother me

00:40:00.000 in a way that um you know because what have what has the you know uh corporate journalism become

00:40:08.720 in that there's no attempt at a discussion or an attempt to understand why i'm doing like in

00:40:16.080 in the fashion that you're doing as an independent journalist uh asking the questions allowing me to

00:40:21.120 explain um that's not happening at the corporate level there's just this this uh name calling and um no

00:40:27.920 attempt at any sort of uh investigation and if the investigation is had i would say it's not a very

00:40:34.720 good one because i have not come into contact with many um reporters at higher levels at these various

00:40:41.600 organizations so when i say that um i'm i'm not i'm not exactly okay with it because i think it

00:40:49.520 it's it's it's very disruptive and harmful uh through the public mind yeah is this is something

00:41:00.160 that is creating a kind of hatred and a rage in people and it's not necessary because nothing i've

00:41:06.000 ever said or done is inflammatory i've not insulted anybody i've never i've not criticized all i'm trying

00:41:12.320 to do is bring to light the the um the issues that are facing federal government workers that have been

00:41:18.400 affected like i have so i just find it um it's it's irresponsible journalism uh it does it does bother

00:41:27.280 me because of the hatred and anger that is generating which is misplaced and not necessary i might add

00:41:34.640 however um when i have had the ability now over the last couple of days to have a couple of conversations

00:41:40.960 with uh reporters from canadian press and um ottawa citizen i have attempted to try to say look this

00:41:50.080 is what i am seeing from your organization please um make some effort uh highlighting the positive that

00:41:57.680 came out of this because this is the remarkable story and how uh number one uh i came together with

00:42:04.000 11 other people and over the course of four and a half months um that team uh facilitated a a foot

00:42:10.800 march okay over 4 400 kilometers in length so uh why this cannot be reported on you know um i i don't

00:42:19.440 understand why what was the reaction what was the response from this uh journalist that you were uh

00:42:25.120 conveying this to i i think it was you know it was taken on board but i understand uh journalists and

00:42:32.000 the relationship and i believe we had this conversation you know there's a relationship

00:42:36.160 with editorial boards with publishers with owners um they can they can write whatever they wish however

00:42:44.000 what they write is potentially not always published and then there are constraints possibly with what

00:42:50.480 um the way the information is is going to be um put out there and and i know that the challenges are

00:42:57.680 as well um and correct me if i'm wrong it's taking a story like this and fitting it into 250 words so

00:43:06.320 what is allowed to stay and what is allowed to um or what is taken out of the article um you know this

00:43:13.200 is this is lost in this kind of um um the parameters around you know reporting and then again it's the

00:43:22.400 headline sometimes the headlines are markedly different from the subject right and some of it is just

00:43:29.440 smear and it's guilt by association and uh you know none of this is helpful in trying to understand

00:43:36.000 uh what you're trying to do and uh you know what you're why you're marching or even understand the

00:43:42.320 larger cause right um and i i feel that it's more than a bit ironic that there seems to be more support

00:43:48.960 uh in marching for the freedoms of people in another country let's say ukraine had you been doing

00:43:54.880 that rather than the freedom for canadians to make choices for themselves um you know what what does

00:44:00.160 that tell us about where we are in canada well again i think it's it shows to and it points to the

00:44:07.840 dominance of this kind of um you know this this media corporate entity that you know broadcast

00:44:18.640 uh erroneous misrepresentative information uh it's not necessarily untrue but this information is

00:44:31.040 it's weaponized so for example it's like you know to point to my example it's the release of this

00:44:37.200 this shocking headline um that's right up there with you know probably something we would see you

00:44:43.680 you know the national inquirer do and uh my you know my court martial is announced with this you

00:44:50.960 know fanfare even though it was something that i actually asked for back in march you know why is it

00:44:58.720 done like that it's done like that to to excuse the picture uh frame it in a way that is you know can

00:45:05.920 be presented as negative um and i think it's uh i think what what is actually happening as well for

00:45:17.600 these organizations they're undermining their own credibility in a lot of ways in doing that

00:45:23.920 um unfortunately i'm not really sure what level of media literacy most of the canadian public has

00:45:29.840 um so um you know it's just it just seems that it's unfortunate and uh i do believe that we can

00:45:37.280 kind of work ourselves out of this by kind of like in addition to informed and educated voters

00:45:45.520 and taxpayers then we have informed and educated um um the public that is able to navigate this kind

00:45:54.800 of warped media landscape that we find ourselves in yeah uh finally james i know you're hard pressed

00:46:00.800 for time and i know you have to get going but uh where do you see canada heading in the months and

00:46:06.160 years ahead are you optimistic are you pessimistic agnostic i i'm fairly uh optimistic to be honest

00:46:14.320 i mean like i said what i saw happening um number one we were ignored number two we got

00:46:22.240 attention not from the first from our federal representatives in the federal government again

00:46:26.480 i want to point to the courage that it took for those folks to come out and speak to me because of

00:46:31.920 this kind of um twisted media landscape and political um um game of thrones style system we have

00:46:38.880 in place now so they they did demonstrate a lot of courage coming out and um i think that's

00:46:44.640 important and um that happened the support and the acknowledgement that i've received from

00:46:51.760 people on the ground is overwhelmingly positive and um i'm optimistic like i said we're going to take

00:46:59.360 uh we're going to get going on on phase two of this mission so to speak on july the 18th um we will

00:47:07.600 probably not be leaving from ottawa just because of the fact that you know this is um let's let's let's

00:47:14.080 keep the uh the media the corporate media on its toes we're actually going to leave from another location

00:47:19.920 and uh we'll leave uh that has yet to be determined but it will be closer to southern ontario and not

00:47:25.680 in and around ottawa just because i think that you know the number of folks who drove up to visit us

00:47:30.720 in ottawa on june the third we're going to try to move ourselves down closer to that area um just to

00:47:37.680 make ourselves accessible because this is one of the things too that i think is um you know positive

00:47:43.440 changes on the horizon because there's folks out there willing to put themselves um you know there's folks

00:47:49.280 like me willing to put themselves out there and make ourselves accessible and that's what we

00:47:52.880 represented people we're accessible and we listen this is what i think is important for we listen to

00:47:59.680 folks and what they have to say yeah well on that note james uh that brings us uh to the end of this

00:48:06.080 conversation i really uh appreciate you making the time to chat with me and to um you know share your

00:48:12.640 thoughts and views with uh with uh with your with our listeners and uh i wish you all the best as

00:48:19.120 you march onward to signal hill newfoundland and i really hope that um i get another opportunity to

00:48:25.440 chat with you in the weeks in the weeks ahead i think that's entirely possible thank you for uh giving

00:48:31.600 me this opportunity to tell my side of the story and get the real information out there because as you

00:48:37.120 know this is what i think it's going to take it's going to take this partnership between um you

00:48:42.080 know educators and journalists um you know working together with with people like me and represent

00:48:49.040 and representing us and allowing us to get that um you know our side of the story out okay perfect

00:48:54.880 well thanks so much james and good luck with your march and uh hope to hope to speak to you soon

00:49:00.000 okay okay okay thank you take care

Juno News - July 12, 2022

James Topp isn’t finished his monumental march across Canada

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