Juno News - November 29, 2022


Justin Trudeau failed to defend the Emergencies Act


Episode Stats

Length

38 minutes

Words per Minute

169.73497

Word Count

6,543

Sentence Count

343

Misogynist Sentences

9

Hate Speech Sentences

2


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's most irreverent talk show.
00:00:05.620 This is The Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:10.880 Coming up, after dozens of witnesses, countless hours of testimony,
00:00:14.500 the Public Order Emergency Commission has finally concluded its testimony phase.
00:00:20.180 We do a recap of the last six weeks up next on The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:00:24.220 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:27.500 Hello and welcome to you all.
00:00:30.080 This is Canada's most irreverent talk show, The Andrew Lawton Show,
00:00:33.880 on this Tuesday, November 29, 2022.
00:00:37.740 Coming to you from a remote, secret, undisclosed location,
00:00:41.420 which you will have a little bit more disclosure of on tomorrow's show.
00:00:44.860 And I promise you it will be worth it as we talk about the wrap-up of the Public Order Emergency Commission,
00:00:51.340 which has consumed, certainly for my life and perhaps for a lot of yours,
00:00:55.280 much of the last seven weeks.
00:00:57.940 And I want to just say here that this was a very significant moment.
00:01:02.660 And just to give some context here, the Emergencies Act itself,
00:01:06.660 the law says that there has to be a commission investigating the emergency,
00:01:10.580 and that commission has to produce a report within one year of the end of the so-called emergency,
00:01:16.360 which means this commission has been working on a time frame
00:01:18.820 where Commissioner Paul Rouleau has to table his report before Parliament by February,
00:01:24.240 by the third, fourth week of February 2023.
00:01:28.080 So obviously there was a very aggressive time frame here,
00:01:30.900 and these were long, long days.
00:01:33.460 As I talked about on the show previously, the first witness would take the stand at 9.30 a.m.,
00:01:38.380 and it would go sometimes until well past 8 p.m.
00:01:41.900 They didn't end up doing any evening or weekend sittings like was rumored to be a possibility.
00:01:48.340 But still, very long days.
00:01:50.840 Some people were there for the entire thing.
00:01:53.160 I was up there in Ottawa at a couple of points,
00:01:55.560 but even when I wasn't there, I was staying tuned remotely,
00:01:58.260 and our whole team was invested in it.
00:01:59.940 So I wanted to take this opportunity on this program,
00:02:03.180 not just to unpack Justin Trudeau's and Chrystia Freeland's testimony
00:02:06.960 in the last couple of days of the commission hearings,
00:02:10.180 but actually just to go back down memory lane for a bit
00:02:13.360 and talk about some of the broader themes that emerged here,
00:02:17.040 which I think were very important.
00:02:18.600 So we'll get to that in just a moment
00:02:20.580 and do our little stroll through the bureaucratic revisionist history version of memory lane.
00:02:25.840 But just to talk about Justin Trudeau's testimony for a moment here,
00:02:28.820 I think this is like the greatest example of revisionism right here.
00:02:34.320 A number of people have testified in this inquiry
00:02:36.720 referencing your widely published comments
00:02:39.800 and calling the unvaccinated racists and misogynists.
00:02:44.080 And we have heard testimony in this inquiry
00:02:46.560 about how some of your officials wanted to label protesters as terrorists.
00:02:51.600 Would you agree with me that one of the most important roles of a prime minister
00:02:55.320 is to unite Canadians and not divide them by engaging in name-calling?
00:03:00.820 I did not call people who are unvaccinated names.
00:03:07.300 I highlighted there is a difference
00:03:10.460 between people who are hesitant to get vaccinated
00:03:14.260 for any range of reasons
00:03:17.080 and people who deliberately spread misinformation
00:03:21.840 that puts at risk their life and health of their fellow Canadians.
00:03:27.860 And my focus every step of the way
00:03:30.640 and the primary responsibility of a prime minister
00:03:33.860 is to keep Canadians safe and alive.
00:03:37.060 Just for fun, just for fun, let's play this clip
00:03:41.880 that I just stumbled upon from the 2021 election campaign.
00:03:46.420 On est en train de décider que, oui,
00:03:49.100 on va s'en sortir de cette pandémie par la vaccination.
00:03:51.860 Puis on en connaît tous, des gens qui sont en train d'hésiter un petit peu.
00:03:56.260 On va continuer d'essayer de les convaincre.
00:03:58.140 Mais il y a aussi des gens qui sont farouchement opposés à la vaccination.
00:04:01.640 Qui sont extrémistes.
00:04:02.680 Qui croient pas dans la science,
00:04:03.980 qui sont souvent misogynes, souvent racistes aussi.
00:04:07.280 C'est un petit groupe, mais qui prend de la place.
00:04:11.580 So maybe he did actually call them names.
00:04:14.800 Maybe he was just peddling
00:04:15.860 before the Public Order Emergency Commission fake news.
00:04:19.100 No, no, no.
00:04:19.480 As he says, oh, I wasn't calling all unvaccinated people that,
00:04:23.200 just the ones that dared protest vaccine mandates effectively.
00:04:27.340 So it's amazing how brazen he was.
00:04:29.940 Now, I should say, and a lot of people
00:04:31.440 that just despise Justin Trudeau may not accept this,
00:04:34.300 but I watched his testimony and I thought he did very well.
00:04:37.680 I thought he was very candid.
00:04:39.280 He was very frank.
00:04:40.200 He answered the questions directly,
00:04:42.680 which is not something you get from him in press conferences.
00:04:45.920 And I think one of the senses that I got
00:04:48.060 was that he's very much a true believer.
00:04:50.380 He entirely owns up to his decision
00:04:53.720 to invoke the Emergencies Act.
00:04:55.980 He's completely, as he says, he's serene with it.
00:04:59.120 He's serene and at peace with his decision
00:05:01.640 to invoke the Emergencies Act.
00:05:03.880 And why that's so important is because it means
00:05:06.260 that he still believes this was an appropriate response
00:05:09.920 to the convoy protest.
00:05:12.100 I don't know how much of the last seven weeks of testimony he watched,
00:05:16.540 but if he watched any of it from law enforcement,
00:05:19.780 from convoy protesters,
00:05:21.240 he should have seen what any Canadian who tuned in saw,
00:05:24.840 which is that this was a peaceful protest.
00:05:27.560 At times, it might have been a little bit chaotic or disorganized,
00:05:30.920 but it was a peaceful protest by people that came to Ottawa,
00:05:34.420 not because they were insurrectionists,
00:05:36.260 not because they wanted to perpetrate acts of violence,
00:05:38.960 but because they wanted to send a message to government,
00:05:42.140 a message that Justin Trudeau refused to hear.
00:05:45.240 And he was actually asked about that
00:05:46.920 because there was a lot in the course of the commission
00:05:49.200 that was made of the engagement approach,
00:05:51.040 of actually hearing these people,
00:05:52.940 of sitting down with them, of talking to them.
00:05:54.740 And Trudeau acknowledged under oath
00:05:57.220 that he never in a million years was going to consider that.
00:06:02.100 He said, yeah, well, we already heard them.
00:06:04.260 What was there to do?
00:06:05.200 Why would we have sat down with them?
00:06:07.160 While the protests may have gotten,
00:06:08.920 can we say, out of hand or snowballed
00:06:10.900 and been extremely disruptive,
00:06:13.140 they weren't the actions of a small minority,
00:06:15.640 but a real expression of frustration,
00:06:18.480 a legitimate frustration.
00:06:20.300 They wanted to engage,
00:06:21.420 and they wanted you to speak to them,
00:06:23.340 and they wanted to hear directly
00:06:24.600 from their federal government,
00:06:25.800 and that did not happen.
00:06:26.900 So do you have an answer to that?
00:06:29.720 I think, first of all,
00:06:32.960 we heard them.
00:06:37.380 We knew exactly what they were asking for.
00:06:40.080 They were very, very clear
00:06:41.540 that they wanted an end to mandates.
00:06:45.100 The convoy protesters
00:06:47.000 were expressing their disagreement
00:06:51.160 with very specific public policies,
00:06:54.260 that they were very vocal,
00:06:56.740 both in mainstream communications
00:07:01.040 and through social media
00:07:02.920 on what they wanted,
00:07:05.040 and they were very much heard.
00:07:07.060 But it was clear that it wasn't
00:07:10.060 that they just wanted to be heard.
00:07:12.860 They wanted to be obeyed.
00:07:15.420 What an arrogant thing to say.
00:07:17.980 We didn't need to hear them
00:07:19.480 because, well,
00:07:20.180 we knew they were there.
00:07:21.440 We heard them.
00:07:22.480 We heard them
00:07:23.580 in the broadest possible sense.
00:07:25.420 Yeah, but you weren't actually listening.
00:07:27.740 You weren't actually listening.
00:07:29.180 Yeah, maybe the faint sound of a honk,
00:07:31.160 you know,
00:07:31.460 drifted over the Ottawa River
00:07:32.780 and made its way through the trees
00:07:34.340 and wound up on your doorstep
00:07:35.620 at Harrington Lake in Quebec, sir,
00:07:38.100 but you didn't actually hear.
00:07:39.960 And if you did hear,
00:07:40.900 you didn't actually care
00:07:42.140 about what they were talking about.
00:07:44.080 And he says they didn't want to be heard.
00:07:46.240 They wanted to be obeyed.
00:07:48.280 I don't actually think
00:07:49.880 that's a fair characterization
00:07:51.320 of what the protesters were after.
00:07:54.140 I mean, certainly they wanted
00:07:55.060 changes to policy.
00:07:56.480 But remember,
00:07:57.100 they weren't asking
00:07:57.940 for government money.
00:07:59.500 They weren't asking
00:08:00.380 for government to do anything
00:08:02.180 but get off of their backs.
00:08:04.300 And this is the great thing,
00:08:05.560 I think, about a protest
00:08:06.400 that's more libertarian in nature
00:08:08.560 is that what people are asking for
00:08:10.700 is to be left alone.
00:08:12.140 These vaccine mandates
00:08:13.800 were not required.
00:08:15.100 These restrictions were not required.
00:08:17.340 They were there
00:08:18.060 because government wanted
00:08:20.360 to start meddling
00:08:21.220 in people's own decisions,
00:08:23.000 meddling with bodily autonomy,
00:08:24.420 meddling with the right of truckers
00:08:25.820 to be truckers
00:08:26.920 without government
00:08:27.600 throwing all these burdensome
00:08:28.960 and cumbersome rules
00:08:30.180 and regulations onto them.
00:08:31.980 And it was interesting
00:08:33.280 how Justin Trudeau
00:08:34.240 decided to characterize
00:08:35.360 what protest is.
00:08:38.160 Okay, so fairly self-explanatory.
00:08:40.240 There's a willingness
00:08:42.000 to discuss,
00:08:43.440 but you were concerned
00:08:44.700 about setting a precedent
00:08:45.820 where a blockade
00:08:47.900 could equal a change
00:08:50.580 in public policy.
00:08:51.600 Is that fair?
00:08:52.860 Yeah.
00:08:53.960 I think we have
00:08:55.680 a robust functioning democracy
00:08:58.360 and protests,
00:09:00.740 public protests,
00:09:01.460 are an important part
00:09:02.600 of making sure
00:09:03.800 we're getting messages out there
00:09:05.500 and Canadians
00:09:06.000 are getting messages out there
00:09:07.080 and highlighting
00:09:07.600 how they feel
00:09:08.160 about various issues.
00:09:09.780 But using protests
00:09:12.460 to demand changes
00:09:16.420 to public policy
00:09:17.440 is something
00:09:18.760 that I think
00:09:19.680 is worrisome.
00:09:21.660 Okay.
00:09:23.900 So, thank you, Mr.
00:09:25.000 Although, sorry,
00:09:25.900 to a certain extent.
00:09:26.200 No, no, please go on.
00:09:27.000 Yeah, protests.
00:09:27.760 If you're out protesting
00:09:28.560 that the government
00:09:29.180 is shutting down
00:09:30.640 a safe injection site
00:09:32.180 or something,
00:09:32.620 you are asking for changes
00:09:33.820 in public policy.
00:09:35.400 But there is a difference
00:09:36.520 between occupations
00:09:39.160 and, you know,
00:09:43.060 saying we're not going
00:09:44.740 until this has changed
00:09:45.920 in a way
00:09:47.040 that is massively disruptive.
00:09:49.840 Okay.
00:09:50.620 Hang on.
00:09:51.080 So, you can't protest
00:09:52.800 to demand changes
00:09:54.220 to public policy.
00:09:55.480 Like, what do you protest for?
00:09:56.500 Do you enjoy the Ottawa winter?
00:09:58.120 Like, do you just protest
00:09:58.860 to enjoy the minus 18 degrees
00:10:00.520 in Ottawa?
00:10:01.220 Like, no.
00:10:02.180 Protests are for demanding changes
00:10:04.500 to public policy.
00:10:05.920 And it's interesting
00:10:06.700 if you watch that clip
00:10:08.060 or listen to it
00:10:09.560 for those listening
00:10:10.360 to the podcast,
00:10:11.360 how he kind of, like,
00:10:12.440 realizes he stepped in it there
00:10:14.120 and says,
00:10:14.560 okay, no, no, no.
00:10:15.100 But, yeah, like,
00:10:16.040 you can actually use protests
00:10:17.540 to change public policy
00:10:18.680 if, you know,
00:10:19.160 the government is shutting down
00:10:20.560 something in your community.
00:10:21.660 So, what he's saying is
00:10:22.880 you have to demand a change
00:10:24.680 that he supports
00:10:25.740 to public policy.
00:10:27.220 Like, you can't just demand
00:10:28.080 any old change.
00:10:28.880 It has to be something
00:10:29.540 that he finds
00:10:30.280 is a respectable change
00:10:31.880 to public policy.
00:10:32.960 And then he just goes
00:10:33.960 on to the narrative,
00:10:34.740 oh, you can't occupy.
00:10:36.080 But even then,
00:10:37.000 Theresa Spence,
00:10:37.820 the former Indigenous chief
00:10:39.760 in Attawapiskat,
00:10:40.940 I mean, she staged a sit-in
00:10:42.900 on an island near Ottawa
00:10:44.780 for her, like,
00:10:45.340 weird fake hunger strike
00:10:46.540 where she was actually eating.
00:10:47.940 But the thing about that
00:10:49.200 was that, like,
00:10:49.720 she was occupying
00:10:50.960 a part of Ottawa.
00:10:52.780 So, government only uses
00:10:54.740 the term occupy
00:10:56.200 when they've decided
00:10:58.680 that this is a so-called
00:11:00.020 unlawful protest.
00:11:01.960 And that's why
00:11:02.640 so much of this commission,
00:11:03.960 I think,
00:11:04.220 comes down to
00:11:04.740 very critical questions
00:11:05.760 that arguably
00:11:06.900 weren't answered
00:11:07.840 in the public record,
00:11:09.200 such as,
00:11:09.780 why did the government
00:11:10.740 think this was
00:11:11.440 an unlawful protest?
00:11:13.240 And at what point
00:11:13.900 did it become unlawful?
00:11:15.660 And to look at the question
00:11:16.660 of the Emergencies Act,
00:11:18.180 this act requires
00:11:19.420 for a public order emergency
00:11:20.860 that there is a threat
00:11:22.400 to the security of Canada.
00:11:24.880 Why did the government
00:11:26.060 think it was justified
00:11:27.300 to use a threat
00:11:28.220 to the security of Canada
00:11:29.360 that was broader
00:11:30.720 than the definition
00:11:31.540 actually in the Emergencies Act
00:11:33.540 and in the CSIS Act?
00:11:35.260 And we can't see that
00:11:36.480 because government
00:11:37.120 is hiding the legal advice
00:11:39.220 it got under the veil
00:11:40.580 of solicitor-client privilege.
00:11:42.720 And there was this clip
00:11:43.660 of the Government of Canada
00:11:45.080 lawyer reminding everyone,
00:11:46.900 don't you dare ask
00:11:47.880 David Lamedi,
00:11:48.680 the Attorney General,
00:11:50.200 questions about legal advice
00:11:52.000 given to the government.
00:11:53.520 Thank you.
00:11:53.960 Good morning, Commissioner.
00:11:54.860 It's Andrea Gonzales,
00:11:55.920 counsel for the Government
00:11:56.920 of Canada.
00:11:58.240 The next witness
00:11:59.260 will be Minister of Justice
00:12:01.540 David Lamedi.
00:12:02.420 In addition to being
00:12:03.900 Minister of Justice,
00:12:05.080 of course,
00:12:06.140 the Minister is
00:12:08.160 the Attorney General of Canada,
00:12:10.040 the lawyer to the Government
00:12:11.220 of Canada.
00:12:12.680 And I wanted to put on the record
00:12:14.300 that the Government of Canada
00:12:15.600 continues to assert
00:12:16.960 and maintain
00:12:17.800 all of its claims
00:12:19.940 of solicitor-client privilege
00:12:21.940 in respect of all legal advice
00:12:23.800 and opinions.
00:12:25.600 Minister Lamedi's attendance here
00:12:27.560 as a witness
00:12:28.600 is not a waiver
00:12:29.700 of any claims of privilege
00:12:31.300 by the Government of Canada,
00:12:32.900 which he has an obligation
00:12:34.700 to protect.
00:12:36.120 We will be objecting to
00:12:37.600 and Minister Lamedi
00:12:38.760 will be refusing
00:12:39.660 to answer all questions
00:12:40.960 that would delve into areas
00:12:42.620 of solicitor-client privilege.
00:12:44.320 So I just wanted to put that
00:12:45.420 on the record
00:12:46.460 at the front end
00:12:47.440 and hopefully examinations
00:12:50.140 can be appropriately tailored
00:12:52.080 to keep the objections
00:12:53.600 to a minimum.
00:12:54.280 And why that's so important
00:12:57.020 is because,
00:12:57.980 and I don't want to rehash
00:12:59.080 the discussion I had
00:13:00.020 on the show last week
00:13:00.840 or two weeks ago
00:13:01.580 about the intricacies
00:13:02.780 of the Emergencies Act,
00:13:03.960 but really what happened here
00:13:05.280 is that all of these people,
00:13:07.260 police and CSIS,
00:13:08.620 said there was no threat
00:13:10.500 to the security of Canada
00:13:11.860 as defined by the CSIS Act.
00:13:13.900 And it's the CSIS Act
00:13:15.400 that gives the definition
00:13:16.440 to a threat
00:13:16.960 to the security of Canada
00:13:18.060 that the Emergencies Act uses.
00:13:20.000 But there was some magic transformation
00:13:22.540 that took place
00:13:23.680 within the cabinet process
00:13:25.600 where they started to see,
00:13:26.740 you know what,
00:13:27.440 maybe there's an alternative
00:13:29.060 definition here.
00:13:31.020 And Jody Thomas,
00:13:32.520 who was the National Security
00:13:34.000 and Intelligence Advisor
00:13:35.220 for the government,
00:13:36.520 had actually testified
00:13:37.680 that she effectively made up
00:13:39.960 a new definition
00:13:40.860 of the Emergencies Act
00:13:42.020 based on what she thought
00:13:43.640 it should have said.
00:13:45.260 Right, I understand.
00:13:46.760 So you're saying
00:13:47.920 that the CSIS Act
00:13:50.780 and Section 2
00:13:52.180 of the CSIS Act,
00:13:53.540 which is incorporated
00:13:54.800 into the Emergencies Act,
00:13:57.220 means something different
00:13:58.800 when you're looking at it.
00:14:00.840 No, that's not what I've said.
00:14:02.680 So what do you mean?
00:14:04.020 I mean that
00:14:04.860 in terms of the Emergency Act,
00:14:06.760 the governor and council
00:14:07.880 can consider more broadly
00:14:13.540 than the intelligence
00:14:16.100 collected by CSIS
00:14:17.660 in determining
00:14:18.340 a national security threat
00:14:19.660 or situation
00:14:20.340 or a public order emergency.
00:14:21.980 I understand that.
00:14:23.260 But you do agree
00:14:24.860 that the four grounds
00:14:27.560 of types of threats
00:14:29.040 in Section 2
00:14:31.220 of the CSIS Act
00:14:32.080 are what is in fact
00:14:33.820 required to have been found?
00:14:36.500 No, I don't agree.
00:14:37.720 So it can go beyond
00:14:39.400 what the Act says,
00:14:41.040 which is a threat
00:14:41.660 to the security of Canada.
00:14:43.140 There are other definitions
00:14:44.180 of threats to the security
00:14:45.360 of Canada
00:14:45.880 as we saw earlier.
00:14:47.080 Right, but not
00:14:47.900 in the legislation.
00:14:49.480 The Emergency Act
00:14:50.900 allows for the governor
00:14:51.820 and council
00:14:52.440 to make a broad decision
00:14:54.140 about public order emergencies.
00:14:56.040 That's not what it says,
00:14:56.820 but you can agree with me.
00:14:59.220 I think that this is
00:15:00.380 an argument to have
00:15:01.300 with lawyers.
00:15:02.400 Well, that's kind of weird.
00:15:03.820 So you're actually
00:15:04.580 just moonlighting.
00:15:05.880 You're just riffing.
00:15:06.560 You're doing like
00:15:07.220 Emergencies Act improv night
00:15:09.100 at the comedy club here
00:15:10.160 and you're deciding
00:15:11.200 that you have
00:15:11.880 a new definition.
00:15:12.840 Yeah, Perrin Beattie
00:15:13.760 and Brian Mulroney,
00:15:15.380 they got it wrong.
00:15:16.160 This is what the
00:15:16.700 Emergencies Act
00:15:17.320 should have done.
00:15:18.020 Great.
00:15:18.520 Change the Emergencies Act
00:15:19.860 then, but don't change
00:15:21.020 it in real time
00:15:21.940 when the Act itself
00:15:22.980 doesn't say
00:15:23.640 what you think it says.
00:15:25.600 And David Vigneault,
00:15:26.900 who is the CSIS director,
00:15:29.220 he also went along
00:15:30.360 with this revamped definition.
00:15:32.280 Even though CSIS said
00:15:33.700 there was no threat
00:15:34.540 to the security of Canada,
00:15:36.380 CSIS director Vigneault
00:15:38.100 said to Trudeau,
00:15:38.840 oh yeah, you should still invoke
00:15:39.960 the Emergencies Act.
00:15:41.620 So why were all of these people
00:15:43.980 somehow coming up
00:15:44.920 with different definitions
00:15:45.880 and why is the federal government
00:15:47.740 still hiding its definition
00:15:49.900 and its legal advice
00:15:51.080 when that is like
00:15:52.160 the very core of the question
00:15:54.020 before the commission?
00:15:56.660 What I said at the beginning
00:15:58.140 of this whole thing
00:15:59.800 was that the Emergencies Act
00:16:01.140 was a tool
00:16:01.800 that the government used,
00:16:03.000 I think because they wanted
00:16:04.160 to go after the bank accounts.
00:16:05.800 I think the government knew
00:16:06.860 that the Coutts Crossing
00:16:07.820 was about to be cleared up.
00:16:09.280 The Windsor Crossing
00:16:10.140 had already been cleared.
00:16:11.520 Other border crossings
00:16:12.600 have been cleared
00:16:13.120 with regular policing powers.
00:16:15.280 I think the government
00:16:16.040 wanted to send a message
00:16:17.300 and the government wanted
00:16:18.760 to throw the weight
00:16:19.780 of the state
00:16:20.420 behind the truckers.
00:16:21.840 And I think the government
00:16:22.760 wanted to go after the money.
00:16:24.500 And you have to note
00:16:25.280 that even with the Emergencies Act
00:16:26.860 having been revoked
00:16:27.680 in February,
00:16:29.000 there are still
00:16:30.140 millions of dollars
00:16:31.680 of donations
00:16:32.500 that are hung up
00:16:33.600 because of these
00:16:34.760 government measures.
00:16:35.600 This was the thing
00:16:37.800 and I was very grateful
00:16:39.020 because I think
00:16:39.580 the commission by and large
00:16:40.720 was a very positive thing
00:16:42.360 for the convoy
00:16:43.520 because the convoy
00:16:44.400 got to tell its story
00:16:45.560 for the first time.
00:16:46.800 People like Tamara Leach
00:16:47.780 are under strict bail conditions.
00:16:49.320 She can be thrown in jail
00:16:50.280 if she does an interview
00:16:51.560 and talks about the convoy.
00:16:53.200 Pat King,
00:16:53.780 again,
00:16:54.000 I have little time for him,
00:16:55.320 but I think he was a part
00:16:56.520 of this story
00:16:57.160 and he as well
00:16:58.000 will be thrown back in jail
00:16:59.340 if he opens his mouth
00:17:00.540 in public.
00:17:01.080 So these people
00:17:02.120 were able to tell
00:17:03.080 their story under oath.
00:17:05.620 And we also saw
00:17:06.600 a bit of a picture
00:17:07.680 of the money
00:17:08.560 which was interesting
00:17:10.060 and there was
00:17:10.700 a great report
00:17:11.560 that the convoy council
00:17:12.660 put together
00:17:13.420 and presented
00:17:14.560 in which it acknowledged
00:17:16.000 that very little
00:17:17.440 of the money
00:17:18.080 ever made it
00:17:19.040 to the protesters
00:17:20.220 because of
00:17:21.280 the various hurdles
00:17:22.720 they encountered.
00:17:23.660 The GoFundMe donations
00:17:24.820 were refunded.
00:17:26.480 The million that went through
00:17:27.600 was frozen by TD.
00:17:29.220 The Give, Send, Go donations
00:17:30.360 were refunded.
00:17:31.960 Some crypto donations
00:17:33.080 made it to truckers,
00:17:34.160 but most of that
00:17:34.960 was seized by the government
00:17:36.560 and still sits in escrow.
00:17:38.520 So the story of the convoy
00:17:40.120 was not a story
00:17:41.060 of millions flooding in
00:17:42.720 from Russian actors
00:17:44.140 from all corners
00:17:45.000 of the former Soviet bloc,
00:17:46.460 but it was actually
00:17:47.120 from people
00:17:48.060 that just supported
00:17:49.120 this message of freedom.
00:17:52.160 But it was interesting
00:17:53.300 seeing how punitive
00:17:54.560 some of these financial measures were.
00:17:57.080 And in Christopher Freeland's notes,
00:17:58.560 we saw that
00:17:59.180 banking executives
00:18:00.400 were not siding
00:18:02.080 with Canadians.
00:18:02.980 We're not siding
00:18:03.480 with freedom,
00:18:04.020 but banking executives
00:18:04.920 were by and large
00:18:06.040 siding with government.
00:18:07.600 And in Christopher Freeland's notes,
00:18:08.860 you get two people,
00:18:10.040 one in particular
00:18:10.720 named Dave,
00:18:12.020 who we believe
00:18:12.960 is the head of RBC.
00:18:15.340 Dave,
00:18:15.960 who was saying
00:18:16.500 that he wanted them
00:18:17.160 all labeled as terrorists.
00:18:19.580 Terrorists,
00:18:20.320 because that would let
00:18:21.240 the bank more easily
00:18:22.160 get in there
00:18:22.740 and start seizing
00:18:23.920 their money.
00:18:24.960 Christopher Freeland
00:18:25.620 didn't want to say
00:18:26.140 who Dave was, though.
00:18:27.120 This is a note
00:18:28.100 with Dave.
00:18:29.740 What page?
00:18:31.340 12?
00:18:31.860 Page 12, please.
00:18:33.900 And this is a note
00:18:34.780 that I understand
00:18:36.140 you wrote
00:18:36.560 with Dave
00:18:37.520 from CSIS.
00:18:38.840 That's
00:18:39.280 11.
00:18:42.080 And this is
00:18:42.660 a meeting
00:18:43.320 with Dave
00:18:44.300 from CSIS.
00:18:46.060 And if you scroll,
00:18:48.380 there you say
00:18:49.420 that you need
00:18:50.040 to designate
00:18:51.020 the group
00:18:51.640 as terrorists.
00:18:55.160 So,
00:18:56.180 but it's not your job,
00:19:01.760 but you wanted
00:19:02.160 to designate them
00:19:02.880 as terrorists, right?
00:19:04.800 So,
00:19:05.700 that
00:19:06.260 handwritten note
00:19:07.780 in my notebook,
00:19:08.820 I can
00:19:09.480 assure you
00:19:10.580 that was not
00:19:11.720 a meeting
00:19:12.320 with the director
00:19:13.020 of CSIS,
00:19:14.240 with whom I didn't
00:19:15.020 have a meeting.
00:19:15.840 It says
00:19:16.480 it's
00:19:17.200 with David
00:19:20.160 Vigneault
00:19:20.600 from CSIS.
00:19:22.020 It doesn't say that.
00:19:23.760 It says
00:19:24.140 it's with
00:19:24.520 a gentleman
00:19:25.220 called Dave.
00:19:26.160 Which Dave?
00:19:28.400 That
00:19:28.960 meeting,
00:19:30.080 that is not
00:19:31.240 an account
00:19:31.860 of a meeting
00:19:33.260 with Dave
00:19:33.940 Vigneault
00:19:34.300 because I didn't
00:19:35.160 have a meeting
00:19:36.220 with the CSIS director.
00:19:38.380 Which Dave
00:19:38.960 is in those notes?
00:19:39.600 What's Dave's
00:19:40.120 last name?
00:19:41.500 I need
00:19:42.040 to see
00:19:42.620 my whole notebook
00:19:43.620 that you're referring to,
00:19:44.660 but I can tell you
00:19:45.560 for certain
00:19:46.160 that I did not
00:19:50.140 have a meeting
00:19:51.180 during this time
00:19:52.060 with the CSIS director.
00:19:53.580 And in her notes,
00:19:54.640 you can also see
00:19:55.240 on the screen there,
00:19:55.900 there was another
00:19:56.340 Daryl.
00:19:57.600 Daryl was one
00:19:58.660 and again,
00:19:59.100 that name aligns
00:20:00.040 with the head
00:20:00.540 of BMO.
00:20:01.840 So,
00:20:02.100 you've got
00:20:02.500 RBC and BMO
00:20:04.020 whose executives
00:20:04.720 are seemingly
00:20:05.260 calling for
00:20:06.020 convoy protesters
00:20:07.040 to be terrorists.
00:20:08.400 You have
00:20:08.880 one banking
00:20:09.740 organization,
00:20:10.940 TD,
00:20:11.660 which unilaterally
00:20:12.720 seized that
00:20:13.440 million dollars
00:20:14.220 from Tamara Leach's
00:20:15.300 account,
00:20:15.660 which had come
00:20:16.200 from the GoFundMe
00:20:17.640 campaign.
00:20:18.640 And then you also
00:20:19.600 wonder who was
00:20:20.180 left standing up.
00:20:21.040 Now,
00:20:21.400 there's a little bit
00:20:22.220 of process of
00:20:23.060 elimination here,
00:20:24.040 I admit.
00:20:24.860 But one banking
00:20:26.420 executive,
00:20:27.380 in this readout
00:20:28.480 of the call
00:20:29.000 between banking
00:20:29.760 CEOs and
00:20:30.480 Chrystia Freeland,
00:20:31.620 said,
00:20:32.340 no,
00:20:32.540 no,
00:20:32.640 no,
00:20:32.780 no,
00:20:32.900 no,
00:20:33.100 I don't want
00:20:33.920 Canadians to think
00:20:34.880 that government
00:20:35.520 is weaponizing
00:20:36.800 banks,
00:20:38.060 that government
00:20:38.700 is politicizing
00:20:39.700 banks.
00:20:40.740 And this executive
00:20:41.560 said,
00:20:42.120 by the way,
00:20:43.940 Chrystia Freeland
00:20:44.680 said,
00:20:45.200 I don't understand,
00:20:46.080 you'll have to
00:20:46.520 explain,
00:20:47.100 which I think
00:20:47.860 is in and of
00:20:48.360 itself revealing.
00:20:49.580 But if you look
00:20:50.180 in the readout
00:20:50.700 of this call,
00:20:51.660 they went on
00:20:52.100 to say,
00:20:52.480 why don't you
00:20:53.100 actually just
00:20:53.620 call for an
00:20:54.100 end to
00:20:54.320 restrictions?
00:20:54.760 Why does
00:20:55.220 Canada have
00:20:56.180 more restrictions
00:20:56.960 than all of
00:20:57.500 these other
00:20:57.820 countries?
00:20:59.220 And I said
00:21:00.180 to myself
00:21:00.600 when I saw
00:21:01.180 that,
00:21:01.540 like,
00:21:01.840 I want to
00:21:02.380 know what
00:21:02.740 bank that is
00:21:03.460 so I can
00:21:03.900 move all
00:21:04.700 of my
00:21:05.040 accounts over
00:21:05.700 there.
00:21:06.020 Like,
00:21:06.320 it's not
00:21:06.800 BMO and
00:21:07.300 it's not
00:21:07.580 RBC.
00:21:08.220 I don't
00:21:08.600 think it's
00:21:09.080 TD.
00:21:09.380 So one
00:21:10.420 person said
00:21:11.020 that it
00:21:11.260 might be
00:21:11.620 Scotiabank
00:21:12.220 because Scotiabank
00:21:13.080 has actually
00:21:13.500 pushed back
00:21:14.100 against the
00:21:15.000 government in
00:21:15.560 some way.
00:21:16.020 I guess it
00:21:16.300 could be
00:21:16.640 CIBC.
00:21:17.800 I don't
00:21:18.420 know who
00:21:18.720 else was
00:21:19.100 on the
00:21:19.380 call because
00:21:20.200 those names
00:21:20.740 were like
00:21:21.540 Justin Trudeau
00:21:22.360 at a party
00:21:22.800 blacked out.
00:21:23.880 But the
00:21:24.140 thing about
00:21:24.600 it is that
00:21:25.200 these things
00:21:26.100 are very
00:21:27.160 important and
00:21:27.920 banking
00:21:28.360 executives were
00:21:29.800 not just
00:21:30.440 unwittingly
00:21:31.360 victims of
00:21:32.380 the Emergency
00:21:32.920 Act measures,
00:21:33.960 they were
00:21:34.420 actively calling
00:21:35.580 for more
00:21:36.200 measures.
00:21:37.160 And I
00:21:37.320 think Canadian
00:21:37.820 consumers need
00:21:38.620 to realize
00:21:39.200 that the
00:21:40.040 banks were
00:21:40.620 not on
00:21:41.120 the side
00:21:41.480 of freedom
00:21:41.900 and were
00:21:42.180 not on
00:21:42.480 the side
00:21:42.860 of Canadians
00:21:43.480 by and
00:21:43.900 large,
00:21:44.500 except for
00:21:44.840 this one
00:21:45.140 mystery banker
00:21:45.780 that called
00:21:46.340 out the
00:21:47.060 weaponization
00:21:47.880 of financial
00:21:49.060 institutions.
00:21:50.480 I should
00:21:50.860 point out
00:21:51.440 here that
00:21:51.980 a lot of
00:21:52.840 the government's
00:21:53.480 narrative was
00:21:54.740 really about
00:21:55.340 what could
00:21:56.020 have happened.
00:21:56.640 It's not
00:21:56.840 about what
00:21:57.120 did happen,
00:21:57.720 it's not
00:21:57.960 about violence,
00:21:59.000 it's about
00:21:59.280 threats of
00:22:00.320 violence,
00:22:00.780 what could
00:22:01.280 have taken
00:22:01.920 place.
00:22:02.680 Earlier
00:22:03.100 on in the
00:22:04.160 testimony,
00:22:05.060 Steve Bell,
00:22:05.840 the Deputy
00:22:06.300 Police Chief
00:22:06.920 of Ottawa,
00:22:07.740 who at the
00:22:08.080 time was the
00:22:08.640 acting police
00:22:09.240 chief,
00:22:09.580 had made
00:22:09.860 this comment
00:22:10.380 about how
00:22:10.900 whenever he
00:22:11.720 talked about
00:22:12.140 violence,
00:22:12.620 he means
00:22:12.920 like violence
00:22:14.240 in the
00:22:14.700 broadest sense,
00:22:15.360 like feelings
00:22:15.980 of violence
00:22:16.660 and stuff
00:22:17.040 like that.
00:22:18.280 But the whole
00:22:19.340 point is that
00:22:19.920 you had people
00:22:20.560 that were really
00:22:21.060 trying to
00:22:21.480 rewrite what
00:22:22.560 violence is.
00:22:23.800 And let's
00:22:24.520 talk about this
00:22:25.040 because Peter
00:22:25.520 slowly called it
00:22:26.360 a tinderbox,
00:22:27.740 Chrystia Freeland,
00:22:28.560 she called it
00:22:29.040 a powder keg.
00:22:30.040 another thing
00:22:31.380 that was very
00:22:32.160 much in my
00:22:32.800 mind was the
00:22:33.940 possibility of
00:22:35.060 violent conflict
00:22:36.340 between people
00:22:37.520 doing the
00:22:38.040 blockading and
00:22:38.820 occupying and
00:22:40.520 other Canadians
00:22:41.460 who were very
00:22:42.980 angry about it.
00:22:45.380 I felt that
00:22:47.140 Canada was sort
00:22:48.040 of a powder keg
00:22:49.060 and that you
00:22:50.060 could have a
00:22:51.060 violent physical
00:22:52.020 confrontation at
00:22:53.640 any point.
00:22:54.320 I didn't visit
00:22:56.480 Windsor at the
00:22:57.780 time, but I
00:22:59.440 heard a lot
00:23:02.580 of people
00:23:03.140 saying, you
00:23:04.440 know, this
00:23:05.560 could really
00:23:06.380 get out of
00:23:07.020 hand.
00:23:07.720 And the people
00:23:08.620 of Windsor,
00:23:09.480 they really
00:23:09.980 understand how
00:23:11.240 important that
00:23:12.820 trade over the
00:23:13.920 Ambassador Bridge
00:23:14.740 is.
00:23:15.680 And I did
00:23:16.580 really fear you
00:23:18.840 could have
00:23:19.160 counter-protests
00:23:20.420 and a confrontation
00:23:21.580 there, and that
00:23:22.540 would have been
00:23:22.860 terrible.
00:23:23.320 Ooh, a powder
00:23:24.620 keg waiting to
00:23:25.600 explode.
00:23:26.360 Okay, now,
00:23:26.920 except for the
00:23:27.500 fact that we
00:23:27.880 probably need to
00:23:28.420 find some new
00:23:28.900 cliches in the
00:23:30.040 Emergencies Act
00:23:30.840 discussion, let's
00:23:31.860 go with this
00:23:32.340 powder keg, because
00:23:33.260 what you're saying
00:23:33.920 there is that all
00:23:34.880 it takes is just
00:23:35.620 a little spark,
00:23:36.880 and this whole
00:23:37.580 thing will balloon
00:23:38.520 into World War
00:23:40.040 Three Wellington
00:23:40.860 Street.
00:23:41.420 It'll just be
00:23:42.000 truck on Prius,
00:23:43.440 and they'll all
00:23:44.020 just, like, have
00:23:44.620 this violent clash
00:23:45.620 in the streets of
00:23:46.220 Ottawa.
00:23:46.840 What exactly does
00:23:47.920 she mean by
00:23:49.220 violence?
00:23:50.420 Well, Deputy
00:23:50.940 Prime Minister?
00:23:51.860 But I remember
00:23:52.540 one morning
00:23:53.320 when I was walking
00:23:54.920 from my hotel
00:23:56.080 to my office.
00:23:57.740 I walked past
00:23:59.200 a parked truck,
00:24:01.780 and there was a
00:24:02.860 young woman walking
00:24:03.720 there, too.
00:24:05.120 And the truck honked
00:24:07.320 really loudly.
00:24:09.100 And she shouted
00:24:12.500 something not very nice
00:24:15.180 and made an obscene
00:24:16.420 hand gesture.
00:24:17.100 and the truck honked
00:24:19.640 again really loudly.
00:24:22.560 And I was really glad
00:24:24.720 that I was there,
00:24:26.440 and more importantly,
00:24:27.220 that the RCMP was there,
00:24:29.020 because I thought,
00:24:30.440 this is exactly the kind
00:24:31.740 of thing.
00:24:32.540 Like, imagine no one
00:24:33.960 had been there.
00:24:34.780 It was just this small,
00:24:36.320 young woman,
00:24:36.900 and this big truck
00:24:39.820 and a person in it.
00:24:41.500 And she was mad.
00:24:43.460 And I just thought,
00:24:45.060 you know,
00:24:45.500 there are dozens
00:24:47.180 and dozens of these
00:24:48.040 things happening
00:24:48.660 every day.
00:24:50.060 And, you know,
00:24:51.220 God forbid that one
00:24:52.300 of them should
00:24:53.640 actually flare
00:24:55.260 into violence
00:24:56.300 and physical harm.
00:24:58.360 Hmm.
00:24:58.680 Hmm.
00:24:59.660 So,
00:25:00.500 she's explaining
00:25:01.840 this powder keg.
00:25:03.860 She's had three weeks
00:25:05.560 of the convoy
00:25:06.800 being in Ottawa.
00:25:07.860 She's had ten months
00:25:09.240 since then.
00:25:10.320 She's had six weeks
00:25:11.680 of commission hearings
00:25:12.900 to come up with
00:25:13.900 an answer to that question.
00:25:16.140 And what she gets is,
00:25:18.320 I saw a truck honk.
00:25:22.620 Hmm.
00:25:24.100 Oh, no, it gets worse
00:25:25.040 because the girl
00:25:25.640 flipped the middle finger
00:25:26.800 to the truck,
00:25:27.640 who honked again.
00:25:31.800 Carnage.
00:25:32.580 Absolute carnage.
00:25:33.680 Like,
00:25:34.040 but I love the implication.
00:25:35.680 She said,
00:25:36.060 I'm glad the RCMP
00:25:37.320 were there
00:25:37.900 and I'm glad I was there.
00:25:39.660 Nowhere in the story
00:25:40.680 does she talk about
00:25:41.460 doing anything
00:25:42.320 other than watching it.
00:25:43.860 So, it's like,
00:25:44.500 what did she do
00:25:45.440 in that moment
00:25:46.240 that de-escalated this
00:25:47.580 from becoming
00:25:48.380 Grand Theft Auto?
00:25:49.900 Because, like,
00:25:50.300 the way she tells the story,
00:25:51.560 it's like,
00:25:51.900 the truck honked,
00:25:52.560 the girl said,
00:25:53.480 F you,
00:25:54.040 and gave the middle finger,
00:25:55.240 the truck honked again,
00:25:56.520 and the girl was about
00:25:57.620 to, like,
00:25:58.060 reach into her backpack
00:25:59.140 and pull out a machine gun
00:26:00.340 and, uh,
00:26:01.340 just, like,
00:26:01.840 lay waste to the truckers
00:26:02.840 and then Christia Freeland
00:26:03.600 just swoops in
00:26:04.300 and says,
00:26:04.600 no,
00:26:04.940 I've got the Emergencies Act,
00:26:06.480 you can't do that.
00:26:07.840 I'll freeze your bank account
00:26:08.980 right now,
00:26:09.540 trucker.
00:26:10.220 It's like,
00:26:10.740 but she didn't do anything.
00:26:12.360 So, she didn't prevent
00:26:13.260 the non-existent violence
00:26:14.560 from escalating
00:26:15.300 into further
00:26:16.040 non-existent violence,
00:26:17.560 which I think is great.
00:26:18.880 Like,
00:26:19.300 it's probably
00:26:20.320 a great metaphor
00:26:21.360 for the Trudeau government
00:26:22.600 that they stand
00:26:23.320 on the sidelines
00:26:24.100 doing nothing
00:26:24.780 and say,
00:26:25.700 thank goodness
00:26:26.140 we were here
00:26:26.780 or something
00:26:27.500 could have happened,
00:26:28.280 even though
00:26:28.700 they didn't prevent
00:26:29.360 the nothing
00:26:29.740 from happening
00:26:30.680 in the first place.
00:26:31.720 Like,
00:26:32.020 but this is what
00:26:32.720 the Emergencies Act
00:26:33.660 thing has all been about.
00:26:35.440 It's this government
00:26:36.180 that is just hell-bent
00:26:37.660 on maligning the truckers,
00:26:39.120 on assuming the worst,
00:26:40.720 and doesn't seem
00:26:41.620 to acknowledge
00:26:42.380 that this violent
00:26:44.060 insurrection,
00:26:45.240 this powder keg,
00:26:46.380 this tinderbox,
00:26:47.260 this tinder keg,
00:26:48.100 this powder box,
00:26:49.080 that nothing ever happened.
00:26:50.820 It didn't actually
00:26:51.700 become this.
00:26:52.380 And the small,
00:26:53.760 small incidents
00:26:54.400 that did occur
00:26:55.280 were either wildly
00:26:56.660 misrepresented
00:26:57.600 or distorted
00:26:58.160 by the media
00:26:58.780 or were dealt with
00:27:00.160 in the rare cases
00:27:01.260 where there was
00:27:01.800 a lawless behavior
00:27:02.920 by existing police authorities.
00:27:05.820 And I'll tell you
00:27:06.760 a story here,
00:27:07.620 and there's a video
00:27:08.620 you can watch of this.
00:27:09.960 When I was up in Ottawa
00:27:10.940 near the end of the convoy,
00:27:12.600 I think it was the Thursday
00:27:13.420 or something
00:27:14.320 before the Sunday
00:27:15.140 where it all ended,
00:27:16.900 I was right on
00:27:18.080 Wellington Street.
00:27:18.860 I was by the stage truck
00:27:20.100 right in front of
00:27:20.820 Centre Block
00:27:21.400 and Parliament Hill.
00:27:22.620 And there was
00:27:23.380 this police raid
00:27:25.020 on this guy
00:27:26.380 who had parked his car
00:27:27.760 in the middle
00:27:28.160 of the intersection
00:27:28.880 who had apparently
00:27:29.520 been giving people
00:27:30.300 some grief.
00:27:30.820 And he put up
00:27:31.580 a big fight.
00:27:32.500 Police ended up
00:27:33.020 having to like
00:27:33.480 physically carry him out.
00:27:35.560 Police moved in.
00:27:36.980 They got rid of him.
00:27:37.820 They moved out.
00:27:38.660 And what was interesting
00:27:39.560 is the stage manager
00:27:41.060 or MC,
00:27:41.760 whatever his title was,
00:27:42.920 who was part
00:27:43.340 of the convoy protest
00:27:44.280 was narrating
00:27:45.240 as this was happening,
00:27:46.700 telling everyone
00:27:47.160 to stay calm,
00:27:47.900 to let police
00:27:48.380 do their work
00:27:48.920 because it was
00:27:49.680 police themselves
00:27:50.800 that were called
00:27:52.240 by convoy organisers.
00:27:54.240 And it was the convoy
00:27:55.320 organisers that said
00:27:56.220 we didn't like
00:27:57.160 what this guy was doing
00:27:58.700 and we thought
00:27:59.520 it was causing
00:28:00.100 a safety risk.
00:28:01.280 So there were examples
00:28:02.540 of that where people
00:28:03.560 in the convoy said,
00:28:04.580 yeah, we actually
00:28:05.480 want to make sure
00:28:06.220 that anyone who's
00:28:06.860 violating this mandate
00:28:08.020 that we have
00:28:08.720 for a peaceful,
00:28:09.940 lawful protest,
00:28:11.120 that those people
00:28:11.800 are removed.
00:28:12.360 And that's exactly
00:28:13.100 what police did
00:28:13.900 in this moment.
00:28:14.620 Now, I don't know
00:28:15.280 if they charged him.
00:28:16.080 I don't know
00:28:16.440 the backstory.
00:28:17.640 Supposedly,
00:28:18.080 there had been
00:28:18.480 some minor assault
00:28:19.620 or threat of assault
00:28:20.460 in some form.
00:28:21.640 But that was the whole point.
00:28:22.800 You can't just
00:28:23.320 retroactively look
00:28:24.200 and say that the people
00:28:25.060 that were trying
00:28:25.980 to keep their own
00:28:26.760 protests safe
00:28:27.760 were the ones
00:28:28.820 that were causing
00:28:29.480 this violent clash
00:28:31.220 that never really
00:28:32.120 materialised.
00:28:33.340 And even then,
00:28:34.080 I mean,
00:28:34.340 the subtext
00:28:35.020 of Christopher Freeland's
00:28:35.880 point is that
00:28:37.340 it wasn't even
00:28:37.960 the convoy protesters
00:28:39.500 that were the problem.
00:28:40.520 It was counter-protesters.
00:28:42.580 Like, that was
00:28:43.060 what she was saying
00:28:43.680 the problem was,
00:28:44.500 is that this other person
00:28:45.600 there was potentially
00:28:47.380 going to cause
00:28:48.420 this escalation,
00:28:49.680 not the protesters
00:28:50.800 themselves.
00:28:51.620 And there was
00:28:52.280 a moment early on
00:28:53.540 that came up
00:28:54.200 in the commission
00:28:54.700 where someone was,
00:28:56.000 like, having eggs
00:28:56.880 thrown at them
00:28:57.680 by people in Ottawa.
00:28:59.280 So, again,
00:28:59.980 this was a form
00:29:00.920 of violence.
00:29:02.520 You know,
00:29:03.120 as they say in French,
00:29:04.100 anuf is anuf.
00:29:05.120 But it was this form
00:29:06.040 of violence
00:29:06.700 that was taking place
00:29:08.160 that was from
00:29:09.540 counter-protesters,
00:29:10.920 not from convoy
00:29:12.060 organisers themselves.
00:29:13.440 So, even then,
00:29:14.600 I don't think
00:29:15.100 you can say
00:29:15.640 that a possibility
00:29:16.740 of something
00:29:17.620 is a national emergency
00:29:19.720 when that something
00:29:20.840 doesn't materialise.
00:29:22.640 So, that's been
00:29:23.240 the more recent
00:29:24.320 development
00:29:25.100 of this hearing.
00:29:26.680 I want to talk
00:29:27.320 about some of
00:29:27.740 the bigger picture
00:29:28.360 aspects here
00:29:29.000 because I saw
00:29:30.000 a number of people
00:29:30.920 raise concerns
00:29:31.860 that this is
00:29:32.400 some rigged process,
00:29:34.000 that it's a bias
00:29:34.700 commissioner.
00:29:35.600 And, to be fair,
00:29:36.480 I don't share
00:29:37.140 those concerns.
00:29:37.700 I think that,
00:29:38.620 in general,
00:29:39.660 in a six-week-long
00:29:41.540 period of testimony,
00:29:42.860 you're going to find
00:29:43.920 rulings and decisions
00:29:45.080 and lines of questioning
00:29:46.600 that come up
00:29:47.200 that you think
00:29:48.120 are stacked against you.
00:29:49.620 But the other side
00:29:50.400 is probably doing
00:29:51.220 that as well.
00:29:52.160 I think the commissioner
00:29:52.960 was, generally speaking,
00:29:54.280 very fair.
00:29:55.380 I think, at a certain point,
00:29:56.520 long days get to people.
00:29:57.740 And I think that's true
00:29:58.380 of Brendan Miller.
00:29:59.060 I think it's true
00:29:59.540 of Commissioner Paul Rouleau.
00:30:00.960 I think it's true
00:30:01.700 of others in the process
00:30:03.220 as well.
00:30:03.720 Like, it's just a long,
00:30:05.380 gruelling slog
00:30:06.480 to get through it.
00:30:07.820 But I think that
00:30:08.520 the commissioner
00:30:09.060 was asking,
00:30:10.080 when he weighed in himself,
00:30:11.900 very astute questions.
00:30:13.220 And the one
00:30:13.880 that kept coming up,
00:30:15.860 which I made note of
00:30:17.200 because of how often
00:30:18.060 he was bringing it up,
00:30:19.380 was this idea
00:30:20.040 of whether there was
00:30:20.940 an alternate protest
00:30:21.980 option identified
00:30:23.820 that would have allowed
00:30:24.800 protesters to continue
00:30:26.200 lawfully protesting
00:30:27.880 even after trucks
00:30:29.540 had been removed
00:30:30.160 and police had moved in.
00:30:31.260 And it didn't sound
00:30:32.100 like that was ever offered.
00:30:33.560 It didn't sound like
00:30:34.440 these people were ever told,
00:30:35.420 yes, you can be here
00:30:36.700 without your vehicles.
00:30:38.380 You can be here,
00:30:39.300 but you can't have a truck
00:30:40.180 on Wellington Street.
00:30:41.240 When, if we were actually
00:30:42.780 upholding the Charter
00:30:43.780 of Rights and Freedoms,
00:30:45.080 as Justin Trudeau claimed
00:30:46.320 with the Emergencies Act,
00:30:47.500 that would have been
00:30:48.200 the main point to stress.
00:30:49.620 Yes, lawful protest
00:30:50.980 is still allowed.
00:30:52.100 And here's what we're doing
00:30:53.180 to ensure
00:30:53.760 that right is unimpeded.
00:30:56.100 So when you go back
00:30:57.260 to the beginning of it here,
00:30:58.580 there were a lot of things
00:30:59.420 that were brought up
00:31:00.040 that had nothing to do
00:31:01.280 with the Emergencies Act.
00:31:02.960 That like, for example,
00:31:04.120 I mean, this one is going
00:31:04.980 back to like day one
00:31:06.140 or day two.
00:31:07.140 The threat of the real menace here,
00:31:09.160 phantom honking.
00:31:10.380 Ms. Dallarant,
00:31:11.060 can you describe
00:31:11.940 for the commissioner,
00:31:13.360 what was the impact,
00:31:14.400 if any,
00:31:14.940 on your physical well-being?
00:31:19.500 The impact
00:31:20.980 on my physical well-being
00:31:23.020 is quite extensive.
00:31:24.980 I certainly
00:31:27.980 during the experience
00:31:29.740 had difficulty sleeping.
00:31:34.300 I had an effect
00:31:35.920 on my lungs
00:31:36.720 and my throat
00:31:37.680 because of the fumes
00:31:39.320 and other smells.
00:31:41.760 And I also have
00:31:43.060 long-term effects.
00:31:45.100 Can you describe
00:31:46.320 those for us?
00:31:47.540 The long-term effects
00:31:49.320 are loss of hearing,
00:31:52.820 loss of balance,
00:31:54.980 some vertical,
00:31:59.660 triggered by the sound
00:32:02.180 of any horn now,
00:32:04.880 triggered by certain music
00:32:07.340 as the music was very loud,
00:32:10.820 and a physical trigger
00:32:12.380 when I get a smell of gas.
00:32:16.320 Both my throat
00:32:17.380 and lungs start
00:32:19.080 to feel infected.
00:32:20.500 I had also
00:32:23.920 a phantom horn
00:32:27.820 blowing
00:32:28.600 as an experience
00:32:30.320 for a number of weeks after.
00:32:32.660 Phantom honking is real.
00:32:34.120 Like, when I was in Ottawa,
00:32:35.920 just that first weekend,
00:32:37.180 for example,
00:32:37.620 I got home
00:32:38.280 and I think it was like
00:32:38.920 the Monday night
00:32:39.480 or the Tuesday night,
00:32:40.240 I just like bolted up
00:32:41.120 in the middle of the night
00:32:42.020 having heard a honk,
00:32:42.800 which like did not exist
00:32:44.060 in the real world.
00:32:45.740 But even then,
00:32:46.300 I don't think it was
00:32:46.880 a public order emergency
00:32:48.500 that this honk took place
00:32:49.780 and also I would say
00:32:51.340 that the organizers
00:32:52.060 were annoyed
00:32:53.060 with all the honking too,
00:32:54.220 which is why
00:32:54.800 they were all like on board
00:32:56.040 when the injunction came along
00:32:57.220 and the truckers
00:32:58.260 went along with it
00:32:58.920 and they had,
00:32:59.380 you know,
00:32:59.560 a couple of points
00:33:00.200 throughout the day
00:33:00.780 where they would honk
00:33:02.040 or if there was a presentation
00:33:03.040 going on,
00:33:03.800 they would honk
00:33:04.260 like it was applause,
00:33:05.240 but they weren't actually
00:33:06.380 honking from morning to night
00:33:07.960 like was being described
00:33:09.520 as might have taken place
00:33:10.780 in that very first weekend.
00:33:12.280 So all of that is to say
00:33:14.460 that if honking
00:33:16.060 was the biggest problem,
00:33:18.000 I think this sounds
00:33:19.760 like something
00:33:20.420 that wartime powers
00:33:21.760 weren't necessarily needed
00:33:23.140 to deal with.
00:33:24.320 And I want to bring it
00:33:25.480 back to basics here.
00:33:26.580 What is the Emergencies Act about?
00:33:29.040 I go back to what I said earlier
00:33:30.500 with the threat to security
00:33:31.940 as is in the CSIS Act,
00:33:34.720 which is the basis
00:33:35.420 of the definition used
00:33:37.000 in the Emergencies Act.
00:33:38.300 And when I say basis,
00:33:39.340 I mean it's identical.
00:33:40.380 This was convoy lawyer
00:33:42.400 Brendan Miller's
00:33:43.300 opening statements
00:33:44.500 in which he talks about
00:33:45.660 in very specific terms
00:33:47.460 what the government
00:33:48.600 needs to prove
00:33:49.620 if it wants to defend
00:33:50.780 the use of the Emergencies Act.
00:33:52.520 The Emergencies Act
00:33:53.740 requires several things.
00:33:55.880 One, it could be invoked
00:33:57.360 due to espionage and sabotage.
00:34:00.780 Are you going to hear
00:34:01.600 any evidence
00:34:02.220 about espionage and sabotage?
00:34:04.760 The answer to that is no.
00:34:07.160 Two, it could be invoked
00:34:08.820 on the basis of clandestination
00:34:10.380 or deceptive foreign influence
00:34:12.560 or foreign influence
00:34:13.640 that involves a threat
00:34:14.620 to a person.
00:34:15.840 Are you going to hear
00:34:16.720 evidence about that?
00:34:17.720 The answer to that is no.
00:34:20.060 It also could be invoked
00:34:21.520 on the basis of threats
00:34:22.760 or use of acts
00:34:23.780 of serious violence
00:34:25.060 against persons or property.
00:34:27.540 Are you going to hear
00:34:28.640 evidence of violence
00:34:29.580 against persons or property?
00:34:31.660 The answer is no.
00:34:33.860 Lastly, it can also be invoked
00:34:36.080 if there is a group
00:34:38.340 or persons trying to destroy
00:34:40.780 or overthrow by violence
00:34:42.500 the system of government
00:34:44.720 of Canada.
00:34:45.560 Are you going to hear evidence
00:34:47.740 about individuals
00:34:49.660 trying to do that?
00:34:51.240 The answer is no.
00:34:53.100 And the answer is
00:34:54.100 that there was no reasonable
00:34:55.480 and probable grounds
00:34:56.520 to invoke the Emergencies Act
00:34:58.320 and that the government
00:34:59.900 exceeded their jurisdiction
00:35:01.500 both constitutionally
00:35:03.340 and legislatively
00:35:04.200 in doing so.
00:35:06.040 Thank you.
00:35:07.360 Now, as I said,
00:35:08.840 that definition
00:35:09.680 became very important
00:35:11.340 because the government
00:35:12.200 decided to just create
00:35:13.620 a new definition.
00:35:15.060 So the government
00:35:15.500 doesn't even really argue
00:35:16.800 that those things
00:35:18.220 were present in the convoy.
00:35:19.940 They danced around it.
00:35:21.300 Like I watched
00:35:21.960 the whole thing
00:35:22.720 and the Government of Canada
00:35:23.660 lawyers closing remarks
00:35:25.400 didn't go through
00:35:26.580 point by point
00:35:27.400 and say
00:35:27.860 we've made a case
00:35:29.200 that there was espionage
00:35:30.600 or there was foreign influence
00:35:31.920 or they didn't actually
00:35:33.260 make that case.
00:35:34.880 So I think that
00:35:35.820 at the end of it
00:35:36.720 the commissioner
00:35:37.320 is going to have
00:35:38.700 to make his report.
00:35:40.220 That part we know.
00:35:41.440 He doesn't need
00:35:42.360 to come out
00:35:42.880 with a binary
00:35:43.640 it was right
00:35:44.500 or it was wrong.
00:35:45.380 He could actually
00:35:45.960 come up with something
00:35:46.900 that's a lot more
00:35:48.380 of a discussion.
00:35:50.100 He could come up
00:35:50.660 with something
00:35:51.020 that's a lot more
00:35:51.820 along the lines of
00:35:52.820 these are some facts
00:35:54.100 I observed.
00:35:54.960 These are where
00:35:55.420 the points of contention are.
00:35:57.080 These are my recommendations.
00:35:58.760 I think it sounds
00:35:59.980 like he wants
00:36:00.780 to truly make a decision
00:36:02.080 that this was not justified
00:36:03.800 but even if he does
00:36:05.400 even if he were to come out
00:36:06.420 as I've said
00:36:06.860 with this scathing report
00:36:08.060 there's no real accountability
00:36:09.820 unless politicians
00:36:11.060 or Canadians
00:36:11.900 demand accountability
00:36:13.420 and I think it's important
00:36:15.240 and I said
00:36:15.960 that the process
00:36:16.840 of this
00:36:18.100 Public Order Emergency Commission
00:36:19.680 was critical
00:36:20.320 because Canadians
00:36:21.580 themselves
00:36:22.700 got to hear
00:36:23.440 these details
00:36:24.220 which previously
00:36:25.100 had not been
00:36:26.340 available to them
00:36:27.240 and I think
00:36:28.460 that Canadians
00:36:29.020 are really the ones
00:36:29.800 on the front line
00:36:30.420 of this
00:36:30.800 and I say this
00:36:31.920 as someone
00:36:32.280 who has tried
00:36:33.120 to pore over
00:36:33.820 all of this
00:36:34.400 and share the relevant
00:36:35.720 clips that I think
00:36:36.480 are interesting
00:36:37.100 with people
00:36:38.340 because I know
00:36:38.860 that not everyone
00:36:39.440 is a glutton
00:36:39.920 for punishment
00:36:40.400 like I am
00:36:41.060 and is going to
00:36:41.580 just sit through this
00:36:42.360 all like the
00:36:43.220 True North team did
00:36:43.960 and that's fine
00:36:44.520 but I want you
00:36:45.260 to know what happened
00:36:46.020 and I want you
00:36:46.900 to know how the
00:36:47.340 government has moved
00:36:48.060 the goalposts
00:36:49.180 on this act
00:36:49.920 and as I've said
00:36:51.160 so many times
00:36:52.200 even if
00:36:53.260 you oppose
00:36:54.480 the convoy
00:36:55.340 you can still
00:36:55.920 oppose the Emergencies Act
00:36:57.280 and realize
00:36:57.920 that it was
00:36:58.640 a heavy hand
00:36:59.300 and an overbearing
00:37:00.040 response to a situation
00:37:01.340 that did not rise
00:37:02.660 to the level
00:37:03.220 the Emergencies Act
00:37:04.580 demands
00:37:05.240 that does it for me
00:37:06.220 thank you so much
00:37:07.180 for tuning in
00:37:07.680 and also for
00:37:08.480 tuning in to
00:37:09.160 True North's coverage
00:37:09.940 of the Public Order
00:37:11.280 Emergency Commission
00:37:12.160 I'm not saying
00:37:12.860 that I won't reference it
00:37:13.940 in the shows
00:37:15.260 and weeks to come
00:37:16.220 but I think
00:37:16.800 you'll be able
00:37:17.200 to get a bit
00:37:17.620 of an escape from it
00:37:18.620 that you haven't
00:37:19.580 in the last couple
00:37:20.620 of months
00:37:20.940 so I appreciate
00:37:21.520 your patience
00:37:22.000 on that
00:37:22.540 and all of your feedback
00:37:23.680 and in general
00:37:24.380 we had a team
00:37:25.380 in Ottawa
00:37:25.760 we had a team
00:37:26.360 working around the clock
00:37:27.200 following this
00:37:28.340 writing about it
00:37:29.220 clipping the videos
00:37:30.440 that came out of it
00:37:31.220 if you want to support
00:37:32.320 our work on covering this
00:37:34.020 and anything else we do
00:37:35.340 please please please
00:37:36.740 head on over to
00:37:37.540 donate.tnc.news
00:37:39.400 donate.tnc.news
00:37:41.160 we are an organization
00:37:42.240 that exists
00:37:42.900 thanks to the support
00:37:43.820 of people that align with
00:37:46.040 and value the work we do
00:37:47.420 so if that's you
00:37:48.620 please do throw in
00:37:50.040 a couple of dollars
00:37:50.720 as you're able to
00:37:51.640 and I know times
00:37:52.600 are difficult
00:37:53.040 which is why I stress
00:37:54.040 the if you're able to
00:37:54.920 but independent media
00:37:56.260 cannot do the work
00:37:57.120 it does
00:37:57.660 without the people
00:37:58.900 there supporting it
00:37:59.760 so that's our pitch
00:38:00.840 but I will talk to you
00:38:01.900 tomorrow with more
00:38:02.600 of Canada's
00:38:03.300 Most Irreverent Talk
00:38:04.280 show
00:38:04.460 thank you
00:38:05.160 God bless
00:38:05.720 and good day to you all
00:38:06.820 thanks for listening
00:38:07.400 to the Andrew Lawton Show
00:38:08.600 support the program
00:38:09.860 by donating to True North
00:38:11.120 at www.tnc.news
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00:38:28.540 and thirdly
00:38:28.820 tomorrow with
00:38:28.860 put on land