Juno News - Justin Trudeau failed to defend the Emergencies Act

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's most irreverent talk show.

00:00:05.620 This is The Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:10.880 Coming up, after dozens of witnesses, countless hours of testimony,

00:00:14.500 the Public Order Emergency Commission has finally concluded its testimony phase.

00:00:20.180 We do a recap of the last six weeks up next on The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:00:24.220 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:27.500 Hello and welcome to you all.

00:00:30.080 This is Canada's most irreverent talk show, The Andrew Lawton Show,

00:00:33.880 on this Tuesday, November 29, 2022.

00:00:37.740 Coming to you from a remote, secret, undisclosed location,

00:00:41.420 which you will have a little bit more disclosure of on tomorrow's show.

00:00:44.860 And I promise you it will be worth it as we talk about the wrap-up of the Public Order Emergency Commission,

00:00:51.340 which has consumed, certainly for my life and perhaps for a lot of yours,

00:00:55.280 much of the last seven weeks.

00:00:57.940 And I want to just say here that this was a very significant moment.

00:01:02.660 And just to give some context here, the Emergencies Act itself,

00:01:06.660 the law says that there has to be a commission investigating the emergency,

00:01:10.580 and that commission has to produce a report within one year of the end of the so-called emergency,

00:01:16.360 which means this commission has been working on a time frame

00:01:18.820 where Commissioner Paul Rouleau has to table his report before Parliament by February,

00:01:24.240 by the third, fourth week of February 2023.

00:01:28.080 So obviously there was a very aggressive time frame here,

00:01:30.900 and these were long, long days.

00:01:33.460 As I talked about on the show previously, the first witness would take the stand at 9.30 a.m.,

00:01:38.380 and it would go sometimes until well past 8 p.m.

00:01:41.900 They didn't end up doing any evening or weekend sittings like was rumored to be a possibility.

00:01:48.340 But still, very long days.

00:01:50.840 Some people were there for the entire thing.

00:01:53.160 I was up there in Ottawa at a couple of points,

00:01:55.560 but even when I wasn't there, I was staying tuned remotely,

00:01:58.260 and our whole team was invested in it.

00:01:59.940 So I wanted to take this opportunity on this program,

00:02:03.180 not just to unpack Justin Trudeau's and Chrystia Freeland's testimony

00:02:06.960 in the last couple of days of the commission hearings,

00:02:10.180 but actually just to go back down memory lane for a bit

00:02:13.360 and talk about some of the broader themes that emerged here,

00:02:17.040 which I think were very important.

00:02:18.600 So we'll get to that in just a moment

00:02:20.580 and do our little stroll through the bureaucratic revisionist history version of memory lane.

00:02:25.840 But just to talk about Justin Trudeau's testimony for a moment here,

00:02:28.820 I think this is like the greatest example of revisionism right here.

00:02:34.320 A number of people have testified in this inquiry

00:02:36.720 referencing your widely published comments

00:02:39.800 and calling the unvaccinated racists and misogynists.

00:02:44.080 And we have heard testimony in this inquiry

00:02:46.560 about how some of your officials wanted to label protesters as terrorists.

00:02:51.600 Would you agree with me that one of the most important roles of a prime minister

00:02:55.320 is to unite Canadians and not divide them by engaging in name-calling?

00:03:00.820 I did not call people who are unvaccinated names.

00:03:07.300 I highlighted there is a difference

00:03:10.460 between people who are hesitant to get vaccinated

00:03:14.260 for any range of reasons

00:03:17.080 and people who deliberately spread misinformation

00:03:21.840 that puts at risk their life and health of their fellow Canadians.

00:03:27.860 And my focus every step of the way

00:03:30.640 and the primary responsibility of a prime minister

00:03:33.860 is to keep Canadians safe and alive.

00:03:37.060 Just for fun, just for fun, let's play this clip

00:03:41.880 that I just stumbled upon from the 2021 election campaign.

00:03:46.420 On est en train de décider que, oui,

00:03:49.100 on va s'en sortir de cette pandémie par la vaccination.

00:03:51.860 Puis on en connaît tous, des gens qui sont en train d'hésiter un petit peu.

00:03:56.260 On va continuer d'essayer de les convaincre.

00:03:58.140 Mais il y a aussi des gens qui sont farouchement opposés à la vaccination.

00:04:01.640 Qui sont extrémistes.

00:04:02.680 Qui croient pas dans la science,

00:04:03.980 qui sont souvent misogynes, souvent racistes aussi.

00:04:07.280 C'est un petit groupe, mais qui prend de la place.

00:04:11.580 So maybe he did actually call them names.

00:04:14.800 Maybe he was just peddling

00:04:15.860 before the Public Order Emergency Commission fake news.

00:04:19.100 No, no, no.

00:04:19.480 As he says, oh, I wasn't calling all unvaccinated people that,

00:04:23.200 just the ones that dared protest vaccine mandates effectively.

00:04:27.340 So it's amazing how brazen he was.

00:04:29.940 Now, I should say, and a lot of people

00:04:31.440 that just despise Justin Trudeau may not accept this,

00:04:34.300 but I watched his testimony and I thought he did very well.

00:04:37.680 I thought he was very candid.

00:04:39.280 He was very frank.

00:04:40.200 He answered the questions directly,

00:04:42.680 which is not something you get from him in press conferences.

00:04:45.920 And I think one of the senses that I got

00:04:48.060 was that he's very much a true believer.

00:04:50.380 He entirely owns up to his decision

00:04:53.720 to invoke the Emergencies Act.

00:04:55.980 He's completely, as he says, he's serene with it.

00:04:59.120 He's serene and at peace with his decision

00:05:01.640 to invoke the Emergencies Act.

00:05:03.880 And why that's so important is because it means

00:05:06.260 that he still believes this was an appropriate response

00:05:09.920 to the convoy protest.

00:05:12.100 I don't know how much of the last seven weeks of testimony he watched,

00:05:16.540 but if he watched any of it from law enforcement,

00:05:19.780 from convoy protesters,

00:05:21.240 he should have seen what any Canadian who tuned in saw,

00:05:24.840 which is that this was a peaceful protest.

00:05:27.560 At times, it might have been a little bit chaotic or disorganized,

00:05:30.920 but it was a peaceful protest by people that came to Ottawa,

00:05:34.420 not because they were insurrectionists,

00:05:36.260 not because they wanted to perpetrate acts of violence,

00:05:38.960 but because they wanted to send a message to government,

00:05:42.140 a message that Justin Trudeau refused to hear.

00:05:45.240 And he was actually asked about that

00:05:46.920 because there was a lot in the course of the commission

00:05:49.200 that was made of the engagement approach,

00:05:51.040 of actually hearing these people,

00:05:52.940 of sitting down with them, of talking to them.

00:05:54.740 And Trudeau acknowledged under oath

00:05:57.220 that he never in a million years was going to consider that.

00:06:02.100 He said, yeah, well, we already heard them.

00:06:04.260 What was there to do?

00:06:05.200 Why would we have sat down with them?

00:06:07.160 While the protests may have gotten,

00:06:08.920 can we say, out of hand or snowballed

00:06:10.900 and been extremely disruptive,

00:06:13.140 they weren't the actions of a small minority,

00:06:15.640 but a real expression of frustration,

00:06:18.480 a legitimate frustration.

00:06:20.300 They wanted to engage,

00:06:21.420 and they wanted you to speak to them,

00:06:23.340 and they wanted to hear directly

00:06:24.600 from their federal government,

00:06:25.800 and that did not happen.

00:06:26.900 So do you have an answer to that?

00:06:29.720 I think, first of all,

00:06:32.960 we heard them.

00:06:37.380 We knew exactly what they were asking for.

00:06:40.080 They were very, very clear

00:06:41.540 that they wanted an end to mandates.

00:06:45.100 The convoy protesters

00:06:47.000 were expressing their disagreement

00:06:51.160 with very specific public policies,

00:06:54.260 that they were very vocal,

00:06:56.740 both in mainstream communications

00:07:01.040 and through social media

00:07:02.920 on what they wanted,

00:07:05.040 and they were very much heard.

00:07:07.060 But it was clear that it wasn't

00:07:10.060 that they just wanted to be heard.

00:07:12.860 They wanted to be obeyed.

00:07:15.420 What an arrogant thing to say.

00:07:17.980 We didn't need to hear them

00:07:19.480 because, well,

00:07:20.180 we knew they were there.

00:07:21.440 We heard them.

00:07:22.480 We heard them

00:07:23.580 in the broadest possible sense.

00:07:25.420 Yeah, but you weren't actually listening.

00:07:27.740 You weren't actually listening.

00:07:29.180 Yeah, maybe the faint sound of a honk,

00:07:31.160 you know,

00:07:31.460 drifted over the Ottawa River

00:07:32.780 and made its way through the trees

00:07:34.340 and wound up on your doorstep

00:07:35.620 at Harrington Lake in Quebec, sir,

00:07:38.100 but you didn't actually hear.

00:07:39.960 And if you did hear,

00:07:40.900 you didn't actually care

00:07:42.140 about what they were talking about.

00:07:44.080 And he says they didn't want to be heard.

00:07:46.240 They wanted to be obeyed.

00:07:48.280 I don't actually think

00:07:49.880 that's a fair characterization

00:07:51.320 of what the protesters were after.

00:07:54.140 I mean, certainly they wanted

00:07:55.060 changes to policy.

00:07:56.480 But remember,

00:07:57.100 they weren't asking

00:07:57.940 for government money.

00:07:59.500 They weren't asking

00:08:00.380 for government to do anything

00:08:02.180 but get off of their backs.

00:08:04.300 And this is the great thing,

00:08:05.560 I think, about a protest

00:08:06.400 that's more libertarian in nature

00:08:08.560 is that what people are asking for

00:08:10.700 is to be left alone.

00:08:12.140 These vaccine mandates

00:08:13.800 were not required.

00:08:15.100 These restrictions were not required.

00:08:17.340 They were there

00:08:18.060 because government wanted

00:08:20.360 to start meddling

00:08:21.220 in people's own decisions,

00:08:23.000 meddling with bodily autonomy,

00:08:24.420 meddling with the right of truckers

00:08:25.820 to be truckers

00:08:26.920 without government

00:08:27.600 throwing all these burdensome

00:08:28.960 and cumbersome rules

00:08:30.180 and regulations onto them.

00:08:31.980 And it was interesting

00:08:33.280 how Justin Trudeau

00:08:34.240 decided to characterize

00:08:35.360 what protest is.

00:08:38.160 Okay, so fairly self-explanatory.

00:08:40.240 There's a willingness

00:08:42.000 to discuss,

00:08:43.440 but you were concerned

00:08:44.700 about setting a precedent

00:08:45.820 where a blockade

00:08:47.900 could equal a change

00:08:50.580 in public policy.

00:08:51.600 Is that fair?

00:08:52.860 Yeah.

00:08:53.960 I think we have

00:08:55.680 a robust functioning democracy

00:08:58.360 and protests,

00:09:00.740 public protests,

00:09:01.460 are an important part

00:09:02.600 of making sure

00:09:03.800 we're getting messages out there

00:09:05.500 and Canadians

00:09:06.000 are getting messages out there

00:09:07.080 and highlighting

00:09:07.600 how they feel

00:09:08.160 about various issues.

00:09:09.780 But using protests

00:09:12.460 to demand changes

00:09:16.420 to public policy

00:09:17.440 is something

00:09:18.760 that I think

00:09:19.680 is worrisome.

00:09:21.660 Okay.

00:09:23.900 So, thank you, Mr.

00:09:25.000 Although, sorry,

00:09:25.900 to a certain extent.

00:09:26.200 No, no, please go on.

00:09:27.000 Yeah, protests.

00:09:27.760 If you're out protesting

00:09:28.560 that the government

00:09:29.180 is shutting down

00:09:30.640 a safe injection site

00:09:32.180 or something,

00:09:32.620 you are asking for changes

00:09:33.820 in public policy.

00:09:35.400 But there is a difference

00:09:36.520 between occupations

00:09:39.160 and, you know,

00:09:43.060 saying we're not going

00:09:44.740 until this has changed

00:09:45.920 in a way

00:09:47.040 that is massively disruptive.

00:09:49.840 Okay.

00:09:50.620 Hang on.

00:09:51.080 So, you can't protest

00:09:52.800 to demand changes

00:09:54.220 to public policy.

00:09:55.480 Like, what do you protest for?

00:09:56.500 Do you enjoy the Ottawa winter?

00:09:58.120 Like, do you just protest

00:09:58.860 to enjoy the minus 18 degrees

00:10:00.520 in Ottawa?

00:10:01.220 Like, no.

00:10:02.180 Protests are for demanding changes

00:10:04.500 to public policy.

00:10:05.920 And it's interesting

00:10:06.700 if you watch that clip

00:10:08.060 or listen to it

00:10:09.560 for those listening

00:10:10.360 to the podcast,

00:10:11.360 how he kind of, like,

00:10:12.440 realizes he stepped in it there

00:10:14.120 and says,

00:10:14.560 okay, no, no, no.

00:10:15.100 But, yeah, like,

00:10:16.040 you can actually use protests

00:10:17.540 to change public policy

00:10:18.680 if, you know,

00:10:19.160 the government is shutting down

00:10:20.560 something in your community.

00:10:21.660 So, what he's saying is

00:10:22.880 you have to demand a change

00:10:24.680 that he supports

00:10:25.740 to public policy.

00:10:27.220 Like, you can't just demand

00:10:28.080 any old change.

00:10:28.880 It has to be something

00:10:29.540 that he finds

00:10:30.280 is a respectable change

00:10:31.880 to public policy.

00:10:32.960 And then he just goes

00:10:33.960 on to the narrative,

00:10:34.740 oh, you can't occupy.

00:10:36.080 But even then,

00:10:37.000 Theresa Spence,

00:10:37.820 the former Indigenous chief

00:10:39.760 in Attawapiskat,

00:10:40.940 I mean, she staged a sit-in

00:10:42.900 on an island near Ottawa

00:10:44.780 for her, like,

00:10:45.340 weird fake hunger strike

00:10:46.540 where she was actually eating.

00:10:47.940 But the thing about that

00:10:49.200 was that, like,

00:10:49.720 she was occupying

00:10:50.960 a part of Ottawa.

00:10:52.780 So, government only uses

00:10:54.740 the term occupy

00:10:56.200 when they've decided

00:10:58.680 that this is a so-called

00:11:00.020 unlawful protest.

00:11:01.960 And that's why

00:11:02.640 so much of this commission,

00:11:03.960 I think,

00:11:04.220 comes down to

00:11:04.740 very critical questions

00:11:05.760 that arguably

00:11:06.900 weren't answered

00:11:07.840 in the public record,

00:11:09.200 such as,

00:11:09.780 why did the government

00:11:10.740 think this was

00:11:11.440 an unlawful protest?

00:11:13.240 And at what point

00:11:13.900 did it become unlawful?

00:11:15.660 And to look at the question

00:11:16.660 of the Emergencies Act,

00:11:18.180 this act requires

00:11:19.420 for a public order emergency

00:11:20.860 that there is a threat

00:11:22.400 to the security of Canada.

00:11:24.880 Why did the government

00:11:26.060 think it was justified

00:11:27.300 to use a threat

00:11:28.220 to the security of Canada

00:11:29.360 that was broader

00:11:30.720 than the definition

00:11:31.540 actually in the Emergencies Act

00:11:33.540 and in the CSIS Act?

00:11:35.260 And we can't see that

00:11:36.480 because government

00:11:37.120 is hiding the legal advice

00:11:39.220 it got under the veil

00:11:40.580 of solicitor-client privilege.

00:11:42.720 And there was this clip

00:11:43.660 of the Government of Canada

00:11:45.080 lawyer reminding everyone,

00:11:46.900 don't you dare ask

00:11:47.880 David Lamedi,

00:11:48.680 the Attorney General,

00:11:50.200 questions about legal advice

00:11:52.000 given to the government.

00:11:53.520 Thank you.

00:11:53.960 Good morning, Commissioner.

00:11:54.860 It's Andrea Gonzales,

00:11:55.920 counsel for the Government

00:11:56.920 of Canada.

00:11:58.240 The next witness

00:11:59.260 will be Minister of Justice

00:12:01.540 David Lamedi.

00:12:02.420 In addition to being

00:12:03.900 Minister of Justice,

00:12:05.080 of course,

00:12:06.140 the Minister is

00:12:08.160 the Attorney General of Canada,

00:12:10.040 the lawyer to the Government

00:12:11.220 of Canada.

00:12:12.680 And I wanted to put on the record

00:12:14.300 that the Government of Canada

00:12:15.600 continues to assert

00:12:16.960 and maintain

00:12:17.800 all of its claims

00:12:19.940 of solicitor-client privilege

00:12:21.940 in respect of all legal advice

00:12:23.800 and opinions.

00:12:25.600 Minister Lamedi's attendance here

00:12:27.560 as a witness

00:12:28.600 is not a waiver

00:12:29.700 of any claims of privilege

00:12:31.300 by the Government of Canada,

00:12:32.900 which he has an obligation

00:12:34.700 to protect.

00:12:36.120 We will be objecting to

00:12:37.600 and Minister Lamedi

00:12:38.760 will be refusing

00:12:39.660 to answer all questions

00:12:40.960 that would delve into areas

00:12:42.620 of solicitor-client privilege.

00:12:44.320 So I just wanted to put that

00:12:45.420 on the record

00:12:46.460 at the front end

00:12:47.440 and hopefully examinations

00:12:50.140 can be appropriately tailored

00:12:52.080 to keep the objections

00:12:53.600 to a minimum.

00:12:54.280 And why that's so important

00:12:57.020 is because,

00:12:57.980 and I don't want to rehash

00:12:59.080 the discussion I had

00:13:00.020 on the show last week

00:13:00.840 or two weeks ago

00:13:01.580 about the intricacies

00:13:02.780 of the Emergencies Act,

00:13:03.960 but really what happened here

00:13:05.280 is that all of these people,

00:13:07.260 police and CSIS,

00:13:08.620 said there was no threat

00:13:10.500 to the security of Canada

00:13:11.860 as defined by the CSIS Act.

00:13:13.900 And it's the CSIS Act

00:13:15.400 that gives the definition

00:13:16.440 to a threat

00:13:16.960 to the security of Canada

00:13:18.060 that the Emergencies Act uses.

00:13:20.000 But there was some magic transformation

00:13:22.540 that took place

00:13:23.680 within the cabinet process

00:13:25.600 where they started to see,

00:13:26.740 you know what,

00:13:27.440 maybe there's an alternative

00:13:29.060 definition here.

00:13:31.020 And Jody Thomas,

00:13:32.520 who was the National Security

00:13:34.000 and Intelligence Advisor

00:13:35.220 for the government,

00:13:36.520 had actually testified

00:13:37.680 that she effectively made up

00:13:39.960 a new definition

00:13:40.860 of the Emergencies Act

00:13:42.020 based on what she thought

00:13:43.640 it should have said.

00:13:45.260 Right, I understand.

00:13:46.760 So you're saying

00:13:47.920 that the CSIS Act

00:13:50.780 and Section 2

00:13:52.180 of the CSIS Act,

00:13:53.540 which is incorporated

00:13:54.800 into the Emergencies Act,

00:13:57.220 means something different

00:13:58.800 when you're looking at it.

00:14:00.840 No, that's not what I've said.

00:14:02.680 So what do you mean?

00:14:04.020 I mean that

00:14:04.860 in terms of the Emergency Act,

00:14:06.760 the governor and council

00:14:07.880 can consider more broadly

00:14:13.540 than the intelligence

00:14:16.100 collected by CSIS

00:14:17.660 in determining

00:14:18.340 a national security threat

00:14:19.660 or situation

00:14:20.340 or a public order emergency.

00:14:21.980 I understand that.

00:14:23.260 But you do agree

00:14:24.860 that the four grounds

00:14:27.560 of types of threats

00:14:29.040 in Section 2

00:14:31.220 of the CSIS Act

00:14:32.080 are what is in fact

00:14:33.820 required to have been found?

00:14:36.500 No, I don't agree.

00:14:37.720 So it can go beyond

00:14:39.400 what the Act says,

00:14:41.040 which is a threat

00:14:41.660 to the security of Canada.

00:14:43.140 There are other definitions

00:14:44.180 of threats to the security

00:14:45.360 of Canada

00:14:45.880 as we saw earlier.

00:14:47.080 Right, but not

00:14:47.900 in the legislation.

00:14:49.480 The Emergency Act

00:14:50.900 allows for the governor

00:14:51.820 and council

00:14:52.440 to make a broad decision

00:14:54.140 about public order emergencies.

00:14:56.040 That's not what it says,

00:14:56.820 but you can agree with me.

00:14:59.220 I think that this is

00:15:00.380 an argument to have

00:15:01.300 with lawyers.

00:15:02.400 Well, that's kind of weird.

00:15:03.820 So you're actually

00:15:04.580 just moonlighting.

00:15:05.880 You're just riffing.

00:15:06.560 You're doing like

00:15:07.220 Emergencies Act improv night

00:15:09.100 at the comedy club here

00:15:10.160 and you're deciding

00:15:11.200 that you have

00:15:11.880 a new definition.

00:15:12.840 Yeah, Perrin Beattie

00:15:13.760 and Brian Mulroney,

00:15:15.380 they got it wrong.

00:15:16.160 This is what the

00:15:16.700 Emergencies Act

00:15:17.320 should have done.

00:15:18.020 Great.

00:15:18.520 Change the Emergencies Act

00:15:19.860 then, but don't change

00:15:21.020 it in real time

00:15:21.940 when the Act itself

00:15:22.980 doesn't say

00:15:23.640 what you think it says.

00:15:25.600 And David Vigneault,

00:15:26.900 who is the CSIS director,

00:15:29.220 he also went along

00:15:30.360 with this revamped definition.

00:15:32.280 Even though CSIS said

00:15:33.700 there was no threat

00:15:34.540 to the security of Canada,

00:15:36.380 CSIS director Vigneault

00:15:38.100 said to Trudeau,

00:15:38.840 oh yeah, you should still invoke

00:15:39.960 the Emergencies Act.

00:15:41.620 So why were all of these people

00:15:43.980 somehow coming up

00:15:44.920 with different definitions

00:15:45.880 and why is the federal government

00:15:47.740 still hiding its definition

00:15:49.900 and its legal advice

00:15:51.080 when that is like

00:15:52.160 the very core of the question

00:15:54.020 before the commission?

00:15:56.660 What I said at the beginning

00:15:58.140 of this whole thing

00:15:59.800 was that the Emergencies Act

00:16:01.140 was a tool

00:16:01.800 that the government used,

00:16:03.000 I think because they wanted

00:16:04.160 to go after the bank accounts.

00:16:05.800 I think the government knew

00:16:06.860 that the Coutts Crossing

00:16:07.820 was about to be cleared up.

00:16:09.280 The Windsor Crossing

00:16:10.140 had already been cleared.

00:16:11.520 Other border crossings

00:16:12.600 have been cleared

00:16:13.120 with regular policing powers.

00:16:15.280 I think the government

00:16:16.040 wanted to send a message

00:16:17.300 and the government wanted

00:16:18.760 to throw the weight

00:16:19.780 of the state

00:16:20.420 behind the truckers.

00:16:21.840 And I think the government

00:16:22.760 wanted to go after the money.

00:16:24.500 And you have to note

00:16:25.280 that even with the Emergencies Act

00:16:26.860 having been revoked

00:16:27.680 in February,

00:16:29.000 there are still

00:16:30.140 millions of dollars

00:16:31.680 of donations

00:16:32.500 that are hung up

00:16:33.600 because of these

00:16:34.760 government measures.

00:16:35.600 This was the thing

00:16:37.800 and I was very grateful

00:16:39.020 because I think

00:16:39.580 the commission by and large

00:16:40.720 was a very positive thing

00:16:42.360 for the convoy

00:16:43.520 because the convoy

00:16:44.400 got to tell its story

00:16:45.560 for the first time.

00:16:46.800 People like Tamara Leach 0.55

00:16:47.780 are under strict bail conditions.

00:16:49.320 She can be thrown in jail 0.98

00:16:50.280 if she does an interview

00:16:51.560 and talks about the convoy.

00:16:53.200 Pat King,

00:16:53.780 again,

00:16:54.000 I have little time for him,

00:16:55.320 but I think he was a part

00:16:56.520 of this story

00:16:57.160 and he as well

00:16:58.000 will be thrown back in jail

00:16:59.340 if he opens his mouth

00:17:00.540 in public.

00:17:01.080 So these people

00:17:02.120 were able to tell

00:17:03.080 their story under oath.

00:17:05.620 And we also saw

00:17:06.600 a bit of a picture

00:17:07.680 of the money

00:17:08.560 which was interesting

00:17:10.060 and there was

00:17:10.700 a great report

00:17:11.560 that the convoy council

00:17:12.660 put together

00:17:13.420 and presented

00:17:14.560 in which it acknowledged

00:17:16.000 that very little

00:17:17.440 of the money

00:17:18.080 ever made it

00:17:19.040 to the protesters

00:17:20.220 because of

00:17:21.280 the various hurdles

00:17:22.720 they encountered.

00:17:23.660 The GoFundMe donations

00:17:24.820 were refunded.

00:17:26.480 The million that went through

00:17:27.600 was frozen by TD.

00:17:29.220 The Give, Send, Go donations

00:17:30.360 were refunded.

00:17:31.960 Some crypto donations

00:17:33.080 made it to truckers,

00:17:34.160 but most of that

00:17:34.960 was seized by the government

00:17:36.560 and still sits in escrow.

00:17:38.520 So the story of the convoy

00:17:40.120 was not a story

00:17:41.060 of millions flooding in

00:17:42.720 from Russian actors

00:17:44.140 from all corners

00:17:45.000 of the former Soviet bloc,

00:17:46.460 but it was actually

00:17:47.120 from people

00:17:48.060 that just supported

00:17:49.120 this message of freedom.

00:17:52.160 But it was interesting

00:17:53.300 seeing how punitive

00:17:54.560 some of these financial measures were.

00:17:57.080 And in Christopher Freeland's notes,

00:17:58.560 we saw that

00:17:59.180 banking executives

00:18:00.400 were not siding

00:18:02.080 with Canadians.

00:18:02.980 We're not siding

00:18:03.480 with freedom,

00:18:04.020 but banking executives

00:18:04.920 were by and large

00:18:06.040 siding with government.

00:18:07.600 And in Christopher Freeland's notes,

00:18:08.860 you get two people,

00:18:10.040 one in particular

00:18:10.720 named Dave,

00:18:12.020 who we believe

00:18:12.960 is the head of RBC.

00:18:15.340 Dave,

00:18:15.960 who was saying

00:18:16.500 that he wanted them

00:18:17.160 all labeled as terrorists. 0.82

00:18:19.580 Terrorists,

00:18:20.320 because that would let

00:18:21.240 the bank more easily

00:18:22.160 get in there

00:18:22.740 and start seizing

00:18:23.920 their money.

00:18:24.960 Christopher Freeland

00:18:25.620 didn't want to say

00:18:26.140 who Dave was, though.

00:18:27.120 This is a note

00:18:28.100 with Dave.

00:18:29.740 What page?

00:18:31.340 12?

00:18:31.860 Page 12, please.

00:18:33.900 And this is a note

00:18:34.780 that I understand

00:18:36.140 you wrote

00:18:36.560 with Dave

00:18:37.520 from CSIS.

00:18:38.840 That's

00:18:39.280 11.

00:18:42.080 And this is

00:18:42.660 a meeting

00:18:43.320 with Dave

00:18:44.300 from CSIS.

00:18:46.060 And if you scroll,

00:18:48.380 there you say

00:18:49.420 that you need

00:18:50.040 to designate

00:18:51.020 the group

00:18:51.640 as terrorists.

00:18:55.160 So,

00:18:56.180 but it's not your job,

00:19:01.760 but you wanted

00:19:02.160 to designate them

00:19:02.880 as terrorists, right?

00:19:04.800 So,

00:19:05.700 that

00:19:06.260 handwritten note

00:19:07.780 in my notebook,

00:19:08.820 I can

00:19:09.480 assure you

00:19:10.580 that was not

00:19:11.720 a meeting

00:19:12.320 with the director

00:19:13.020 of CSIS,

00:19:14.240 with whom I didn't

00:19:15.020 have a meeting.

00:19:15.840 It says

00:19:16.480 it's

00:19:17.200 with David

00:19:20.160 Vigneault

00:19:20.600 from CSIS.

00:19:22.020 It doesn't say that.

00:19:23.760 It says

00:19:24.140 it's with

00:19:24.520 a gentleman

00:19:25.220 called Dave.

00:19:26.160 Which Dave?

00:19:28.400 That

00:19:28.960 meeting,

00:19:30.080 that is not

00:19:31.240 an account

00:19:31.860 of a meeting

00:19:33.260 with Dave

00:19:33.940 Vigneault

00:19:34.300 because I didn't

00:19:35.160 have a meeting

00:19:36.220 with the CSIS director.

00:19:38.380 Which Dave

00:19:38.960 is in those notes?

00:19:39.600 What's Dave's

00:19:40.120 last name?

00:19:41.500 I need

00:19:42.040 to see

00:19:42.620 my whole notebook

00:19:43.620 that you're referring to,

00:19:44.660 but I can tell you

00:19:45.560 for certain

00:19:46.160 that I did not

00:19:50.140 have a meeting

00:19:51.180 during this time

00:19:52.060 with the CSIS director.

00:19:53.580 And in her notes,

00:19:54.640 you can also see

00:19:55.240 on the screen there,

00:19:55.900 there was another

00:19:56.340 Daryl.

00:19:57.600 Daryl was one

00:19:58.660 and again,

00:19:59.100 that name aligns

00:20:00.040 with the head

00:20:00.540 of BMO.

00:20:01.840 So,

00:20:02.100 you've got

00:20:02.500 RBC and BMO

00:20:04.020 whose executives

00:20:04.720 are seemingly

00:20:05.260 calling for

00:20:06.020 convoy protesters 0.82

00:20:07.040 to be terrorists. 0.94

00:20:08.400 You have

00:20:08.880 one banking

00:20:09.740 organization,

00:20:10.940 TD,

00:20:11.660 which unilaterally

00:20:12.720 seized that

00:20:13.440 million dollars

00:20:14.220 from Tamara Leach's

00:20:15.300 account,

00:20:15.660 which had come

00:20:16.200 from the GoFundMe

00:20:17.640 campaign.

00:20:18.640 And then you also

00:20:19.600 wonder who was

00:20:20.180 left standing up.

00:20:21.040 Now,

00:20:21.400 there's a little bit

00:20:22.220 of process of

00:20:23.060 elimination here,

00:20:24.040 I admit.

00:20:24.860 But one banking

00:20:26.420 executive,

00:20:27.380 in this readout

00:20:28.480 of the call

00:20:29.000 between banking

00:20:29.760 CEOs and

00:20:30.480 Chrystia Freeland, 0.88

00:20:31.620 said,

00:20:32.340 no,

00:20:32.540 no,

00:20:32.640 no,

00:20:32.780 no,

00:20:32.900 no,

00:20:33.100 I don't want

00:20:33.920 Canadians to think

00:20:34.880 that government

00:20:35.520 is weaponizing

00:20:36.800 banks,

00:20:38.060 that government

00:20:38.700 is politicizing

00:20:39.700 banks.

00:20:40.740 And this executive

00:20:41.560 said,

00:20:42.120 by the way,

00:20:43.940 Chrystia Freeland

00:20:44.680 said,

00:20:45.200 I don't understand,

00:20:46.080 you'll have to

00:20:46.520 explain,

00:20:47.100 which I think

00:20:47.860 is in and of

00:20:48.360 itself revealing.

00:20:49.580 But if you look

00:20:50.180 in the readout

00:20:50.700 of this call,

00:20:51.660 they went on

00:20:52.100 to say,

00:20:52.480 why don't you

00:20:53.100 actually just

00:20:53.620 call for an

00:20:54.100 end to

00:20:54.320 restrictions?

00:20:54.760 Why does

00:20:55.220 Canada have

00:20:56.180 more restrictions

00:20:56.960 than all of

00:20:57.500 these other

00:20:57.820 countries?

00:20:59.220 And I said

00:21:00.180 to myself

00:21:00.600 when I saw

00:21:01.180 that,

00:21:01.540 like,

00:21:01.840 I want to

00:21:02.380 know what

00:21:02.740 bank that is

00:21:03.460 so I can

00:21:03.900 move all

00:21:04.700 of my

00:21:05.040 accounts over

00:21:05.700 there.

00:21:06.020 Like,

00:21:06.320 it's not

00:21:06.800 BMO and

00:21:07.300 it's not

00:21:07.580 RBC.

00:21:08.220 I don't

00:21:08.600 think it's

00:21:09.080 TD.

00:21:09.380 So one

00:21:10.420 person said

00:21:11.020 that it

00:21:11.260 might be

00:21:11.620 Scotiabank

00:21:12.220 because Scotiabank

00:21:13.080 has actually

00:21:13.500 pushed back

00:21:14.100 against the

00:21:15.000 government in

00:21:15.560 some way.

00:21:16.020 I guess it

00:21:16.300 could be

00:21:16.640 CIBC.

00:21:17.800 I don't

00:21:18.420 know who

00:21:18.720 else was

00:21:19.100 on the

00:21:19.380 call because

00:21:20.200 those names

00:21:20.740 were like

00:21:21.540 Justin Trudeau

00:21:22.360 at a party

00:21:22.800 blacked out.

00:21:23.880 But the

00:21:24.140 thing about

00:21:24.600 it is that

00:21:25.200 these things

00:21:26.100 are very

00:21:27.160 important and

00:21:27.920 banking

00:21:28.360 executives were

00:21:29.800 not just

00:21:30.440 unwittingly

00:21:31.360 victims of

00:21:32.380 the Emergency

00:21:32.920 Act measures,

00:21:33.960 they were

00:21:34.420 actively calling

00:21:35.580 for more

00:21:36.200 measures.

00:21:37.160 And I

00:21:37.320 think Canadian

00:21:37.820 consumers need

00:21:38.620 to realize

00:21:39.200 that the

00:21:40.040 banks were

00:21:40.620 not on

00:21:41.120 the side

00:21:41.480 of freedom

00:21:41.900 and were

00:21:42.180 not on

00:21:42.480 the side

00:21:42.860 of Canadians

00:21:43.480 by and

00:21:43.900 large,

00:21:44.500 except for

00:21:44.840 this one

00:21:45.140 mystery banker

00:21:45.780 that called

00:21:46.340 out the

00:21:47.060 weaponization

00:21:47.880 of financial

00:21:49.060 institutions.

00:21:50.480 I should

00:21:50.860 point out

00:21:51.440 here that

00:21:51.980 a lot of

00:21:52.840 the government's

00:21:53.480 narrative was

00:21:54.740 really about

00:21:55.340 what could

00:21:56.020 have happened.

00:21:56.640 It's not

00:21:56.840 about what

00:21:57.120 did happen,

00:21:57.720 it's not

00:21:57.960 about violence,

00:21:59.000 it's about

00:21:59.280 threats of

00:22:00.320 violence,

00:22:00.780 what could

00:22:01.280 have taken

00:22:01.920 place.

00:22:02.680 Earlier

00:22:03.100 on in the

00:22:04.160 testimony,

00:22:05.060 Steve Bell,

00:22:05.840 the Deputy

00:22:06.300 Police Chief

00:22:06.920 of Ottawa,

00:22:07.740 who at the

00:22:08.080 time was the

00:22:08.640 acting police

00:22:09.240 chief,

00:22:09.580 had made

00:22:09.860 this comment

00:22:10.380 about how

00:22:10.900 whenever he

00:22:11.720 talked about

00:22:12.140 violence,

00:22:12.620 he means

00:22:12.920 like violence

00:22:14.240 in the

00:22:14.700 broadest sense,

00:22:15.360 like feelings

00:22:15.980 of violence

00:22:16.660 and stuff

00:22:17.040 like that.

00:22:18.280 But the whole

00:22:19.340 point is that

00:22:19.920 you had people

00:22:20.560 that were really

00:22:21.060 trying to

00:22:21.480 rewrite what

00:22:22.560 violence is.

00:22:23.800 And let's

00:22:24.520 talk about this

00:22:25.040 because Peter

00:22:25.520 slowly called it

00:22:26.360 a tinderbox,

00:22:27.740 Chrystia Freeland, 0.88

00:22:28.560 she called it

00:22:29.040 a powder keg.

00:22:30.040 another thing

00:22:31.380 that was very

00:22:32.160 much in my

00:22:32.800 mind was the

00:22:33.940 possibility of

00:22:35.060 violent conflict

00:22:36.340 between people

00:22:37.520 doing the

00:22:38.040 blockading and

00:22:38.820 occupying and

00:22:40.520 other Canadians

00:22:41.460 who were very

00:22:42.980 angry about it.

00:22:45.380 I felt that

00:22:47.140 Canada was sort

00:22:48.040 of a powder keg

00:22:49.060 and that you

00:22:50.060 could have a

00:22:51.060 violent physical

00:22:52.020 confrontation at

00:22:53.640 any point.

00:22:54.320 I didn't visit

00:22:56.480 Windsor at the

00:22:57.780 time, but I

00:22:59.440 heard a lot

00:23:02.580 of people

00:23:03.140 saying, you

00:23:04.440 know, this

00:23:05.560 could really

00:23:06.380 get out of

00:23:07.020 hand.

00:23:07.720 And the people

00:23:08.620 of Windsor,

00:23:09.480 they really

00:23:09.980 understand how

00:23:11.240 important that

00:23:12.820 trade over the

00:23:13.920 Ambassador Bridge

00:23:14.740 is.

00:23:15.680 And I did

00:23:16.580 really fear you

00:23:18.840 could have

00:23:19.160 counter-protests

00:23:20.420 and a confrontation

00:23:21.580 there, and that

00:23:22.540 would have been

00:23:22.860 terrible.

00:23:23.320 Ooh, a powder

00:23:24.620 keg waiting to 0.96

00:23:25.600 explode.

00:23:26.360 Okay, now,

00:23:26.920 except for the

00:23:27.500 fact that we

00:23:27.880 probably need to

00:23:28.420 find some new

00:23:28.900 cliches in the

00:23:30.040 Emergencies Act

00:23:30.840 discussion, let's

00:23:31.860 go with this

00:23:32.340 powder keg, because

00:23:33.260 what you're saying

00:23:33.920 there is that all

00:23:34.880 it takes is just

00:23:35.620 a little spark,

00:23:36.880 and this whole

00:23:37.580 thing will balloon

00:23:38.520 into World War

00:23:40.040 Three Wellington 0.86

00:23:40.860 Street.

00:23:41.420 It'll just be

00:23:42.000 truck on Prius,

00:23:43.440 and they'll all

00:23:44.020 just, like, have

00:23:44.620 this violent clash

00:23:45.620 in the streets of

00:23:46.220 Ottawa.

00:23:46.840 What exactly does

00:23:47.920 she mean by

00:23:49.220 violence?

00:23:50.420 Well, Deputy

00:23:50.940 Prime Minister?

00:23:51.860 But I remember

00:23:52.540 one morning

00:23:53.320 when I was walking

00:23:54.920 from my hotel

00:23:56.080 to my office.

00:23:57.740 I walked past

00:23:59.200 a parked truck,

00:24:01.780 and there was a

00:24:02.860 young woman walking

00:24:03.720 there, too.

00:24:05.120 And the truck honked

00:24:07.320 really loudly.

00:24:09.100 And she shouted 1.00

00:24:12.500 something not very nice

00:24:15.180 and made an obscene

00:24:16.420 hand gesture.

00:24:17.100 and the truck honked

00:24:19.640 again really loudly.

00:24:22.560 And I was really glad

00:24:24.720 that I was there,

00:24:26.440 and more importantly,

00:24:27.220 that the RCMP was there,

00:24:29.020 because I thought,

00:24:30.440 this is exactly the kind

00:24:31.740 of thing.

00:24:32.540 Like, imagine no one

00:24:33.960 had been there.

00:24:34.780 It was just this small,

00:24:36.320 young woman,

00:24:36.900 and this big truck

00:24:39.820 and a person in it.

00:24:41.500 And she was mad.

00:24:43.460 And I just thought,

00:24:45.060 you know,

00:24:45.500 there are dozens

00:24:47.180 and dozens of these

00:24:48.040 things happening

00:24:48.660 every day.

00:24:50.060 And, you know,

00:24:51.220 God forbid that one 0.88

00:24:52.300 of them should

00:24:53.640 actually flare

00:24:55.260 into violence

00:24:56.300 and physical harm.

00:24:58.360 Hmm.

00:24:58.680 Hmm.

00:24:59.660 So,

00:25:00.500 she's explaining

00:25:01.840 this powder keg.

00:25:03.860 She's had three weeks

00:25:05.560 of the convoy

00:25:06.800 being in Ottawa.

00:25:07.860 She's had ten months

00:25:09.240 since then.

00:25:10.320 She's had six weeks

00:25:11.680 of commission hearings

00:25:12.900 to come up with

00:25:13.900 an answer to that question.

00:25:16.140 And what she gets is,

00:25:18.320 I saw a truck honk.

00:25:22.620 Hmm.

00:25:24.100 Oh, no, it gets worse

00:25:25.040 because the girl 0.99

00:25:25.640 flipped the middle finger

00:25:26.800 to the truck,

00:25:27.640 who honked again.

00:25:31.800 Carnage.

00:25:32.580 Absolute carnage.

00:25:33.680 Like,

00:25:34.040 but I love the implication.

00:25:35.680 She said,

00:25:36.060 I'm glad the RCMP

00:25:37.320 were there

00:25:37.900 and I'm glad I was there.

00:25:39.660 Nowhere in the story

00:25:40.680 does she talk about

00:25:41.460 doing anything

00:25:42.320 other than watching it.

00:25:43.860 So, it's like,

00:25:44.500 what did she do

00:25:45.440 in that moment

00:25:46.240 that de-escalated this

00:25:47.580 from becoming

00:25:48.380 Grand Theft Auto?

00:25:49.900 Because, like,

00:25:50.300 the way she tells the story,

00:25:51.560 it's like,

00:25:51.900 the truck honked,

00:25:52.560 the girl said, 0.95

00:25:53.480 F you, 0.77

00:25:54.040 and gave the middle finger,

00:25:55.240 the truck honked again,

00:25:56.520 and the girl was about 0.99

00:25:57.620 to, like,

00:25:58.060 reach into her backpack 0.66

00:25:59.140 and pull out a machine gun

00:26:00.340 and, uh,

00:26:01.340 just, like,

00:26:01.840 lay waste to the truckers

00:26:02.840 and then Christia Freeland 0.72

00:26:03.600 just swoops in

00:26:04.300 and says,

00:26:04.600 no,

00:26:04.940 I've got the Emergencies Act,

00:26:06.480 you can't do that.

00:26:07.840 I'll freeze your bank account

00:26:08.980 right now,

00:26:09.540 trucker.

00:26:10.220 It's like,

00:26:10.740 but she didn't do anything.

00:26:12.360 So, she didn't prevent

00:26:13.260 the non-existent violence

00:26:14.560 from escalating

00:26:15.300 into further

00:26:16.040 non-existent violence,

00:26:17.560 which I think is great.

00:26:18.880 Like,

00:26:19.300 it's probably

00:26:20.320 a great metaphor

00:26:21.360 for the Trudeau government

00:26:22.600 that they stand

00:26:23.320 on the sidelines

00:26:24.100 doing nothing

00:26:24.780 and say,

00:26:25.700 thank goodness

00:26:26.140 we were here

00:26:26.780 or something

00:26:27.500 could have happened,

00:26:28.280 even though

00:26:28.700 they didn't prevent

00:26:29.360 the nothing

00:26:29.740 from happening

00:26:30.680 in the first place.

00:26:31.720 Like,

00:26:32.020 but this is what

00:26:32.720 the Emergencies Act

00:26:33.660 thing has all been about.

00:26:35.440 It's this government

00:26:36.180 that is just hell-bent

00:26:37.660 on maligning the truckers,

00:26:39.120 on assuming the worst,

00:26:40.720 and doesn't seem

00:26:41.620 to acknowledge

00:26:42.380 that this violent

00:26:44.060 insurrection,

00:26:45.240 this powder keg,

00:26:46.380 this tinderbox,

00:26:47.260 this tinder keg,

00:26:48.100 this powder box,

00:26:49.080 that nothing ever happened.

00:26:50.820 It didn't actually

00:26:51.700 become this.

00:26:52.380 And the small,

00:26:53.760 small incidents

00:26:54.400 that did occur

00:26:55.280 were either wildly

00:26:56.660 misrepresented

00:26:57.600 or distorted

00:26:58.160 by the media

00:26:58.780 or were dealt with

00:27:00.160 in the rare cases

00:27:01.260 where there was

00:27:01.800 a lawless behavior

00:27:02.920 by existing police authorities.

00:27:05.820 And I'll tell you

00:27:06.760 a story here,

00:27:07.620 and there's a video

00:27:08.620 you can watch of this.

00:27:09.960 When I was up in Ottawa

00:27:10.940 near the end of the convoy,

00:27:12.600 I think it was the Thursday

00:27:13.420 or something

00:27:14.320 before the Sunday

00:27:15.140 where it all ended,

00:27:16.900 I was right on

00:27:18.080 Wellington Street.

00:27:18.860 I was by the stage truck

00:27:20.100 right in front of

00:27:20.820 Centre Block

00:27:21.400 and Parliament Hill.

00:27:22.620 And there was

00:27:23.380 this police raid

00:27:25.020 on this guy

00:27:26.380 who had parked his car

00:27:27.760 in the middle

00:27:28.160 of the intersection

00:27:28.880 who had apparently

00:27:29.520 been giving people

00:27:30.300 some grief.

00:27:30.820 And he put up

00:27:31.580 a big fight.

00:27:32.500 Police ended up

00:27:33.020 having to like

00:27:33.480 physically carry him out.

00:27:35.560 Police moved in.

00:27:36.980 They got rid of him.

00:27:37.820 They moved out.

00:27:38.660 And what was interesting

00:27:39.560 is the stage manager

00:27:41.060 or MC,

00:27:41.760 whatever his title was,

00:27:42.920 who was part

00:27:43.340 of the convoy protest

00:27:44.280 was narrating

00:27:45.240 as this was happening,

00:27:46.700 telling everyone

00:27:47.160 to stay calm,

00:27:47.900 to let police

00:27:48.380 do their work

00:27:48.920 because it was

00:27:49.680 police themselves

00:27:50.800 that were called

00:27:52.240 by convoy organisers.

00:27:54.240 And it was the convoy

00:27:55.320 organisers that said

00:27:56.220 we didn't like

00:27:57.160 what this guy was doing

00:27:58.700 and we thought

00:27:59.520 it was causing

00:28:00.100 a safety risk.

00:28:01.280 So there were examples

00:28:02.540 of that where people

00:28:03.560 in the convoy said,

00:28:04.580 yeah, we actually

00:28:05.480 want to make sure

00:28:06.220 that anyone who's

00:28:06.860 violating this mandate

00:28:08.020 that we have

00:28:08.720 for a peaceful,

00:28:09.940 lawful protest,

00:28:11.120 that those people

00:28:11.800 are removed.

00:28:12.360 And that's exactly

00:28:13.100 what police did

00:28:13.900 in this moment.

00:28:14.620 Now, I don't know

00:28:15.280 if they charged him.

00:28:16.080 I don't know

00:28:16.440 the backstory.

00:28:17.640 Supposedly,

00:28:18.080 there had been

00:28:18.480 some minor assault

00:28:19.620 or threat of assault

00:28:20.460 in some form.

00:28:21.640 But that was the whole point.

00:28:22.800 You can't just

00:28:23.320 retroactively look

00:28:24.200 and say that the people

00:28:25.060 that were trying

00:28:25.980 to keep their own

00:28:26.760 protests safe

00:28:27.760 were the ones

00:28:28.820 that were causing

00:28:29.480 this violent clash

00:28:31.220 that never really

00:28:32.120 materialised.

00:28:33.340 And even then,

00:28:34.080 I mean,

00:28:34.340 the subtext

00:28:35.020 of Christopher Freeland's

00:28:35.880 point is that

00:28:37.340 it wasn't even

00:28:37.960 the convoy protesters

00:28:39.500 that were the problem.

00:28:40.520 It was counter-protesters.

00:28:42.580 Like, that was

00:28:43.060 what she was saying

00:28:43.680 the problem was,

00:28:44.500 is that this other person

00:28:45.600 there was potentially

00:28:47.380 going to cause

00:28:48.420 this escalation,

00:28:49.680 not the protesters

00:28:50.800 themselves.

00:28:51.620 And there was

00:28:52.280 a moment early on

00:28:53.540 that came up

00:28:54.200 in the commission

00:28:54.700 where someone was,

00:28:56.000 like, having eggs

00:28:56.880 thrown at them

00:28:57.680 by people in Ottawa.

00:28:59.280 So, again,

00:28:59.980 this was a form

00:29:00.920 of violence.

00:29:02.520 You know,

00:29:03.120 as they say in French,

00:29:04.100 anuf is anuf.

00:29:05.120 But it was this form

00:29:06.040 of violence

00:29:06.700 that was taking place

00:29:08.160 that was from

00:29:09.540 counter-protesters,

00:29:10.920 not from convoy

00:29:12.060 organisers themselves.

00:29:13.440 So, even then,

00:29:14.600 I don't think

00:29:15.100 you can say

00:29:15.640 that a possibility

00:29:16.740 of something

00:29:17.620 is a national emergency

00:29:19.720 when that something

00:29:20.840 doesn't materialise.

00:29:22.640 So, that's been

00:29:23.240 the more recent

00:29:24.320 development

00:29:25.100 of this hearing.

00:29:26.680 I want to talk

00:29:27.320 about some of

00:29:27.740 the bigger picture

00:29:28.360 aspects here

00:29:29.000 because I saw

00:29:30.000 a number of people

00:29:30.920 raise concerns

00:29:31.860 that this is

00:29:32.400 some rigged process,

00:29:34.000 that it's a bias

00:29:34.700 commissioner.

00:29:35.600 And, to be fair,

00:29:36.480 I don't share

00:29:37.140 those concerns.

00:29:37.700 I think that,

00:29:38.620 in general,

00:29:39.660 in a six-week-long

00:29:41.540 period of testimony,

00:29:42.860 you're going to find

00:29:43.920 rulings and decisions

00:29:45.080 and lines of questioning

00:29:46.600 that come up

00:29:47.200 that you think

00:29:48.120 are stacked against you.

00:29:49.620 But the other side

00:29:50.400 is probably doing

00:29:51.220 that as well.

00:29:52.160 I think the commissioner

00:29:52.960 was, generally speaking,

00:29:54.280 very fair.

00:29:55.380 I think, at a certain point,

00:29:56.520 long days get to people.

00:29:57.740 And I think that's true

00:29:58.380 of Brendan Miller.

00:29:59.060 I think it's true

00:29:59.540 of Commissioner Paul Rouleau.

00:30:00.960 I think it's true

00:30:01.700 of others in the process

00:30:03.220 as well.

00:30:03.720 Like, it's just a long,

00:30:05.380 gruelling slog

00:30:06.480 to get through it.

00:30:07.820 But I think that

00:30:08.520 the commissioner

00:30:09.060 was asking,

00:30:10.080 when he weighed in himself,

00:30:11.900 very astute questions.

00:30:13.220 And the one

00:30:13.880 that kept coming up,

00:30:15.860 which I made note of

00:30:17.200 because of how often

00:30:18.060 he was bringing it up,

00:30:19.380 was this idea

00:30:20.040 of whether there was

00:30:20.940 an alternate protest

00:30:21.980 option identified

00:30:23.820 that would have allowed

00:30:24.800 protesters to continue

00:30:26.200 lawfully protesting

00:30:27.880 even after trucks

00:30:29.540 had been removed

00:30:30.160 and police had moved in.

00:30:31.260 And it didn't sound

00:30:32.100 like that was ever offered.

00:30:33.560 It didn't sound like

00:30:34.440 these people were ever told,

00:30:35.420 yes, you can be here

00:30:36.700 without your vehicles.

00:30:38.380 You can be here,

00:30:39.300 but you can't have a truck

00:30:40.180 on Wellington Street.

00:30:41.240 When, if we were actually

00:30:42.780 upholding the Charter

00:30:43.780 of Rights and Freedoms,

00:30:45.080 as Justin Trudeau claimed

00:30:46.320 with the Emergencies Act,

00:30:47.500 that would have been

00:30:48.200 the main point to stress.

00:30:49.620 Yes, lawful protest

00:30:50.980 is still allowed.

00:30:52.100 And here's what we're doing

00:30:53.180 to ensure

00:30:53.760 that right is unimpeded.

00:30:56.100 So when you go back

00:30:57.260 to the beginning of it here,

00:30:58.580 there were a lot of things

00:30:59.420 that were brought up

00:31:00.040 that had nothing to do

00:31:01.280 with the Emergencies Act.

00:31:02.960 That like, for example,

00:31:04.120 I mean, this one is going

00:31:04.980 back to like day one

00:31:06.140 or day two.

00:31:07.140 The threat of the real menace here,

00:31:09.160 phantom honking.

00:31:10.380 Ms. Dallarant,

00:31:11.060 can you describe

00:31:11.940 for the commissioner,

00:31:13.360 what was the impact,

00:31:14.400 if any,

00:31:14.940 on your physical well-being?

00:31:19.500 The impact

00:31:20.980 on my physical well-being

00:31:23.020 is quite extensive.

00:31:24.980 I certainly

00:31:27.980 during the experience

00:31:29.740 had difficulty sleeping.

00:31:34.300 I had an effect

00:31:35.920 on my lungs

00:31:36.720 and my throat

00:31:37.680 because of the fumes

00:31:39.320 and other smells.

00:31:41.760 And I also have

00:31:43.060 long-term effects.

00:31:45.100 Can you describe

00:31:46.320 those for us?

00:31:47.540 The long-term effects

00:31:49.320 are loss of hearing,

00:31:52.820 loss of balance,

00:31:54.980 some vertical,

00:31:59.660 triggered by the sound

00:32:02.180 of any horn now,

00:32:04.880 triggered by certain music

00:32:07.340 as the music was very loud,

00:32:10.820 and a physical trigger

00:32:12.380 when I get a smell of gas.

00:32:16.320 Both my throat

00:32:17.380 and lungs start

00:32:19.080 to feel infected.

00:32:20.500 I had also

00:32:23.920 a phantom horn

00:32:27.820 blowing

00:32:28.600 as an experience

00:32:30.320 for a number of weeks after.

00:32:32.660 Phantom honking is real.

00:32:34.120 Like, when I was in Ottawa,

00:32:35.920 just that first weekend,

00:32:37.180 for example,

00:32:37.620 I got home

00:32:38.280 and I think it was like

00:32:38.920 the Monday night

00:32:39.480 or the Tuesday night,

00:32:40.240 I just like bolted up

00:32:41.120 in the middle of the night

00:32:42.020 having heard a honk,

00:32:42.800 which like did not exist

00:32:44.060 in the real world.

00:32:45.740 But even then,

00:32:46.300 I don't think it was

00:32:46.880 a public order emergency

00:32:48.500 that this honk took place

00:32:49.780 and also I would say

00:32:51.340 that the organizers

00:32:52.060 were annoyed

00:32:53.060 with all the honking too,

00:32:54.220 which is why

00:32:54.800 they were all like on board

00:32:56.040 when the injunction came along

00:32:57.220 and the truckers

00:32:58.260 went along with it

00:32:58.920 and they had,

00:32:59.380 you know,

00:32:59.560 a couple of points

00:33:00.200 throughout the day

00:33:00.780 where they would honk

00:33:02.040 or if there was a presentation

00:33:03.040 going on,

00:33:03.800 they would honk

00:33:04.260 like it was applause,

00:33:05.240 but they weren't actually

00:33:06.380 honking from morning to night

00:33:07.960 like was being described

00:33:09.520 as might have taken place

00:33:10.780 in that very first weekend.

00:33:12.280 So all of that is to say

00:33:14.460 that if honking

00:33:16.060 was the biggest problem,

00:33:18.000 I think this sounds

00:33:19.760 like something

00:33:20.420 that wartime powers

00:33:21.760 weren't necessarily needed

00:33:23.140 to deal with.

00:33:24.320 And I want to bring it

00:33:25.480 back to basics here.

00:33:26.580 What is the Emergencies Act about?

00:33:29.040 I go back to what I said earlier

00:33:30.500 with the threat to security

00:33:31.940 as is in the CSIS Act,

00:33:34.720 which is the basis

00:33:35.420 of the definition used

00:33:37.000 in the Emergencies Act.

00:33:38.300 And when I say basis,

00:33:39.340 I mean it's identical.

00:33:40.380 This was convoy lawyer

00:33:42.400 Brendan Miller's

00:33:43.300 opening statements

00:33:44.500 in which he talks about

00:33:45.660 in very specific terms

00:33:47.460 what the government

00:33:48.600 needs to prove

00:33:49.620 if it wants to defend

00:33:50.780 the use of the Emergencies Act.

00:33:52.520 The Emergencies Act

00:33:53.740 requires several things.

00:33:55.880 One, it could be invoked

00:33:57.360 due to espionage and sabotage.

00:34:00.780 Are you going to hear

00:34:01.600 any evidence

00:34:02.220 about espionage and sabotage?

00:34:04.760 The answer to that is no.

00:34:07.160 Two, it could be invoked

00:34:08.820 on the basis of clandestination

00:34:10.380 or deceptive foreign influence

00:34:12.560 or foreign influence

00:34:13.640 that involves a threat

00:34:14.620 to a person.

00:34:15.840 Are you going to hear

00:34:16.720 evidence about that?

00:34:17.720 The answer to that is no.

00:34:20.060 It also could be invoked

00:34:21.520 on the basis of threats

00:34:22.760 or use of acts

00:34:23.780 of serious violence

00:34:25.060 against persons or property.

00:34:27.540 Are you going to hear

00:34:28.640 evidence of violence

00:34:29.580 against persons or property?

00:34:31.660 The answer is no.

00:34:33.860 Lastly, it can also be invoked

00:34:36.080 if there is a group

00:34:38.340 or persons trying to destroy

00:34:40.780 or overthrow by violence

00:34:42.500 the system of government

00:34:44.720 of Canada.

00:34:45.560 Are you going to hear evidence

00:34:47.740 about individuals

00:34:49.660 trying to do that?

00:34:51.240 The answer is no.

00:34:53.100 And the answer is

00:34:54.100 that there was no reasonable

00:34:55.480 and probable grounds

00:34:56.520 to invoke the Emergencies Act

00:34:58.320 and that the government

00:34:59.900 exceeded their jurisdiction

00:35:01.500 both constitutionally

00:35:03.340 and legislatively

00:35:04.200 in doing so.

00:35:06.040 Thank you.

00:35:07.360 Now, as I said,

00:35:08.840 that definition

00:35:09.680 became very important

00:35:11.340 because the government

00:35:12.200 decided to just create

00:35:13.620 a new definition.

00:35:15.060 So the government

00:35:15.500 doesn't even really argue

00:35:16.800 that those things

00:35:18.220 were present in the convoy.

00:35:19.940 They danced around it.

00:35:21.300 Like I watched

00:35:21.960 the whole thing

00:35:22.720 and the Government of Canada

00:35:23.660 lawyers closing remarks

00:35:25.400 didn't go through

00:35:26.580 point by point

00:35:27.400 and say

00:35:27.860 we've made a case

00:35:29.200 that there was espionage

00:35:30.600 or there was foreign influence

00:35:31.920 or they didn't actually

00:35:33.260 make that case.

00:35:34.880 So I think that

00:35:35.820 at the end of it

00:35:36.720 the commissioner

00:35:37.320 is going to have

00:35:38.700 to make his report.

00:35:40.220 That part we know.

00:35:41.440 He doesn't need

00:35:42.360 to come out

00:35:42.880 with a binary

00:35:43.640 it was right

00:35:44.500 or it was wrong.

00:35:45.380 He could actually

00:35:45.960 come up with something

00:35:46.900 that's a lot more

00:35:48.380 of a discussion.

00:35:50.100 He could come up

00:35:50.660 with something

00:35:51.020 that's a lot more

00:35:51.820 along the lines of

00:35:52.820 these are some facts

00:35:54.100 I observed.

00:35:54.960 These are where

00:35:55.420 the points of contention are.

00:35:57.080 These are my recommendations.

00:35:58.760 I think it sounds

00:35:59.980 like he wants

00:36:00.780 to truly make a decision

00:36:02.080 that this was not justified

00:36:03.800 but even if he does

00:36:05.400 even if he were to come out

00:36:06.420 as I've said

00:36:06.860 with this scathing report

00:36:08.060 there's no real accountability

00:36:09.820 unless politicians

00:36:11.060 or Canadians

00:36:11.900 demand accountability

00:36:13.420 and I think it's important

00:36:15.240 and I said

00:36:15.960 that the process

00:36:16.840 of this

00:36:18.100 Public Order Emergency Commission

00:36:19.680 was critical

00:36:20.320 because Canadians

00:36:21.580 themselves

00:36:22.700 got to hear

00:36:23.440 these details

00:36:24.220 which previously

00:36:25.100 had not been

00:36:26.340 available to them

00:36:27.240 and I think

00:36:28.460 that Canadians

00:36:29.020 are really the ones

00:36:29.800 on the front line

00:36:30.420 of this

00:36:30.800 and I say this

00:36:31.920 as someone

00:36:32.280 who has tried

00:36:33.120 to pore over

00:36:33.820 all of this

00:36:34.400 and share the relevant

00:36:35.720 clips that I think

00:36:36.480 are interesting

00:36:37.100 with people

00:36:38.340 because I know

00:36:38.860 that not everyone

00:36:39.440 is a glutton

00:36:39.920 for punishment

00:36:40.400 like I am

00:36:41.060 and is going to

00:36:41.580 just sit through this

00:36:42.360 all like the

00:36:43.220 True North team did

00:36:43.960 and that's fine

00:36:44.520 but I want you

00:36:45.260 to know what happened

00:36:46.020 and I want you

00:36:46.900 to know how the

00:36:47.340 government has moved

00:36:48.060 the goalposts

00:36:49.180 on this act

00:36:49.920 and as I've said

00:36:51.160 so many times

00:36:52.200 even if

00:36:53.260 you oppose

00:36:54.480 the convoy

00:36:55.340 you can still

00:36:55.920 oppose the Emergencies Act

00:36:57.280 and realize

00:36:57.920 that it was

00:36:58.640 a heavy hand

00:36:59.300 and an overbearing

00:37:00.040 response to a situation

00:37:01.340 that did not rise

00:37:02.660 to the level

00:37:03.220 the Emergencies Act

00:37:04.580 demands

00:37:05.240 that does it for me

00:37:06.220 thank you so much

00:37:07.180 for tuning in

00:37:07.680 and also for

00:37:08.480 tuning in to

00:37:09.160 True North's coverage

00:37:09.940 of the Public Order

00:37:11.280 Emergency Commission

00:37:12.160 I'm not saying

00:37:12.860 that I won't reference it

00:37:13.940 in the shows

00:37:15.260 and weeks to come

00:37:16.220 but I think

00:37:16.800 you'll be able

00:37:17.200 to get a bit

00:37:17.620 of an escape from it

00:37:18.620 that you haven't

00:37:19.580 in the last couple

00:37:20.620 of months

00:37:20.940 so I appreciate

00:37:21.520 your patience

00:37:22.000 on that

00:37:22.540 and all of your feedback

00:37:23.680 and in general

00:37:24.380 we had a team

00:37:25.380 in Ottawa

00:37:25.760 we had a team

00:37:26.360 working around the clock

00:37:27.200 following this

00:37:28.340 writing about it

00:37:29.220 clipping the videos

00:37:30.440 that came out of it

00:37:31.220 if you want to support

00:37:32.320 our work on covering this

00:37:34.020 and anything else we do

00:37:35.340 please please please

00:37:36.740 head on over to

00:37:37.540 donate.tnc.news

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00:37:41.160 we are an organization

00:37:42.240 that exists

00:37:42.900 thanks to the support

00:37:43.820 of people that align with

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00:37:47.420 so if that's you

00:37:48.620 please do throw in

00:37:50.040 a couple of dollars

00:37:50.720 as you're able to

00:37:51.640 and I know times

00:37:52.600 are difficult

00:37:53.040 which is why I stress

00:37:54.040 the if you're able to

00:37:54.920 but independent media

00:37:56.260 cannot do the work

00:37:57.120 it does

00:37:57.660 without the people

00:37:58.900 there supporting it

00:37:59.760 so that's our pitch

00:38:00.840 but I will talk to you

00:38:01.900 tomorrow with more

00:38:02.600 of Canada's

00:38:03.300 Most Irreverent Talk

00:38:04.280 show

00:38:04.460 thank you

00:38:05.160 God bless

00:38:05.720 and good day to you all

00:38:06.820 thanks for listening

00:38:07.400 to the Andrew Lawton Show

00:38:08.600 support the program

00:38:09.860 by donating to True North

00:38:11.120 at www.tnc.news

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00:38:28.540 and thirdly

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00:38:28.860 put on land

Juno News - November 29, 2022

Justin Trudeau failed to defend the Emergencies Act

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