Juno News - Keith Wilson： Carney’s pipeline won’t stop Alberta independence

00:00:00.000 The Kearney government is refusing to release details of its deal to share revenues from

00:00:09.960 tolls on the Gordie Howe International Bridge with the Americans. Blacklock's reporter with

00:00:15.260 this headline won't detail U.S. concessions. Now, Canadian taxpayers paid the full $6.4 billion

00:00:22.700 cost of building the bridge, linking Windsor, Ontario to Detroit, Michigan. And this is what

00:00:29.040 Mark Carney said about the deal a few days ago.

00:00:32.140 We are sharing after Canada is paid back.

00:00:35.720 So we get the revenues, then the servicing of the costs of the bridge

00:00:40.040 and paying the debt of the bridge and then what's left over,

00:00:43.480 there's a split of that for 15 years.

00:00:46.760 And the U.S. money is invested back in economic development in the region,

00:00:51.740 the U.S. side of the region, obviously.

00:00:53.860 When asked for details on the agreement, Cabinet refused.

00:00:57.520 The Cabinet agreed to the multi-billion dollar concession in exchange for allowing the bridge to open as scheduled July 27.

00:01:06.820 In the original agreement of 2012, Canada was allowed to keep all toll revenues.

00:01:12.800 President Trump refused and demanded a 50% share of the revenues, which he got.

00:01:18.880 Canada's Foreign Affairs Department fired 25 diplomats last year over misconduct,

00:01:24.620 Three of them possibly involving criminal acts.

00:01:29.000 Story in Blacklock's reporter says another 11 diplomats quit abruptly rather than face termination.

00:01:36.560 One of those diplomats was caught having secret contact with a foreign government.

00:01:42.260 The department did not identify either the fired diplomat or the foreign country they may have been spying for.

00:01:50.660 Well, the revelations came out on that report called Addressing Misconduct and Wrongdoing

00:01:57.900 at Global Affairs Canada and included this quote.

00:02:02.300 Three employees exploited their employment status to engage in serious, unlawful activities

00:02:08.160 of a potentially criminal nature.

00:02:11.340 All three employees were terminated.

00:02:14.800 Well, a judge has temporarily frozen millions of dollars in assets belonging to a lawyer

00:02:20.000 advocating for Alberta independence.

00:02:23.420 King's bench Justice Marion granted the order

00:02:26.200 freezing about $8.5 million against Jeffrey Rath.

00:02:31.860 It's part of Rath's legal fight over trust money

00:02:35.500 from a First Nations treaty settlement.

00:02:39.800 Now, the judge found reasonable grounds

00:02:41.860 to believe assets could be moved or liquidated

00:02:45.300 before judgment in a court battle

00:02:47.860 between RAF and the Talcari First Nations group is resolved.

00:02:53.960 Let's be real. Crime is up. Repeat offenders are released on bail. Police responses are slower

00:03:00.340 than ever. And in many places, law-abiding citizens are expected to just hope nothing

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00:03:56.120 junomarketplace.com slash Berna for special offers. Make sure that you're prepared. It's

00:04:01.500 better to be safe than sorry. Our guest today is Keith Wilson, who's a lawyer and co-lead

00:04:06.960 of an organization called Let Alberta Decide, and he's very much attuned to what's going on

00:04:13.620 in the battle for independence in Alberta. Welcome to the show, Keith.

00:04:18.300 Thanks for having me.

00:04:19.620 Now, you have some huge issues as far as the chief electoral officer of Alberta goes,

00:04:25.320 and what you claim is a double standard in the way he is treating your campaign versus the

00:04:30.620 Remain campaign. We're going to get to that, but I also know you want to talk about the

00:04:35.320 recent pipeline announcements. And these pipeline announcements appear aimed at trying to keep

00:04:42.840 Alberta from moving too far over to the independent side, saying, look, we are moving

00:04:47.460 forward with pipelines. And Premier Daniel Smith has, of course, agreed to the pipeline that's

00:04:55.780 going to be following the same trajectory as the Trans Mountain. And then, of course, there was

00:05:01.660 another announcement that saw another pipeline proposal from Hardesty, Alberta to Sarnia,

00:05:10.700 Ontario. What are your issues around these announcements? Well, they're actually evidence

00:05:16.680 why Alberta needs to move to independence. They're not something that actually takes the wind out of

00:05:22.860 the sails. They're creating a gale force wind. And what I mean by that is a couple of things.

00:05:30.400 first of all look at the amount of political capital and the political energy that the

00:05:34.080 premiers had to put in just to get this loosey-goosey highly conditional pipeline

00:05:40.000 agreement for the west coast you know it and it's got so many poison pills in it the probability

00:05:45.040 that it's ever going to actually be constructed is extremely small but let's assume it were to be

00:05:51.440 you know look at how hard she's had to work just to get a pipeline that normally industry would

00:05:57.120 simply plan apply for get a regulatory approval there'd be no politicians involved there'd be no 0.78

00:06:02.720 major projects office there'd be no kissing the ring of the prime minister like we have now so

00:06:07.600 it illustrates how broken canada is and how albert has outgrown canada but there's a more serious

00:06:13.840 problem mark and that's um uh the this isn't going to be this is going to be taxpayers funding this

00:06:22.240 this is going to be racking up huge debt on each taxpayer's credit card that the

00:06:29.280 federal government controls they decide what they spend it on and we just have to make the payments

00:06:34.000 including the interest so the pipeline itself is estimated to be in excess of 40 billion dollars

00:06:41.040 when the private sector was going to build tmx originally the same pipeline it was

00:06:45.440 billion. In addition, because Carney is more focused on net zero climate change goals with

00:06:53.920 his Ottawa climate cartel, that the condition is that we have to have this pathways and

00:07:01.040 in project, which is taking CO2 and putting it in the ground. And that costs $25 billion at least

00:07:08.080 plus increased carbon taxes. Let me just wrap this all together for you. So that means $70

00:07:13.680 billion approximately in taxpayer new debt new debt that will drive up inflation make life

00:07:20.080 unaffordable increasingly so um to put that in scale because people we're hearing billions here

00:07:26.000 billions there everybody's just blanking it out the alberta has has the highest per capita spending

00:07:33.040 of any provincial government okay so we we our government spends a lot of money here

00:07:39.760 our entire budget in the province of alberta is 70 billion dollars that's the scale of this fiasco

00:07:47.120 and so what does all this mean well experts in the industry uh institutes like the fraser institute

00:07:54.720 respected economists like jack mince have said that when you add all of these costs to the price

00:08:00.640 of barrel a barrel of oil it's going to be more than the differential in the united states that

00:08:06.000 that we were trying to overcome and it's going to make it uneconomic and uncompetitive for oil

00:08:12.560 producers here to produce more oil so this thing is an absolute mess at every level and it shows 0.81

00:08:21.040 when you have to kiss the ring of ottawa and seek its consent and beg and they can condition you

00:08:29.440 and achieve their pet projects you get bad policy and bad economics but you do have the premier

00:08:37.200 backing these projects and being very much a supporter and proponent of these projects

00:08:43.680 and so i think those who voted for danielle and still like her and support her are going to say

00:08:51.440 well you know she's our premier and she says that this is the direction to go i mean that

00:08:58.400 must be a major barrier for your group to overcome it is but you know we have reality on our side

00:09:06.960 and i mean that seriously because you know even since these announcements have been made

00:09:13.280 the ceo of enbridge which is the most likely pipe pipeline company that you know is trying

00:09:18.480 to do anything big and is now doing huge things spending billions and billions of dollars all in

00:09:23.840 the united states where they could actually get things approved came out and said it's backwards

00:09:30.400 so the company that knows pipelines best said these announcements are backwards and what did

00:09:35.680 he mean by that he clarified it he said we first have to have the production right you have to

00:09:41.200 create the economic environment where it makes sense for an oil company to increase production

00:09:46.320 and what he's pointing out and others are pointing out is that these costs are so extreme

00:09:52.240 so extreme remember 70 billion dollars that's the same as the whole budget for the government of

00:09:57.520 alberta healthcare education roads infrastructure social programs etc etc etc um uh that oil

00:10:04.720 companies are not going there's just to make too much risk and no economics in expanding and

00:10:10.000 doubling production as the premier hopes so at some point reality is going to meet political

00:10:16.320 aspiration and political fantasy and and i also think the other thing that will as each month

00:10:23.440 goes by help us on the independent side each time people go into the grocery store each time they

00:10:30.240 look at their utility bills each time they look at well maybe we need a new car because the other one

00:10:35.040 keeps breaking down and they see how everything keeps costing more and these announcements will

00:10:43.600 not make that problem go away they will make it worse and the only way out is for alberta to get

00:10:50.640 control so we don't have to beg ottawa for permission we can produce our reduces responsibly

00:10:55.920 access markets and build our economy without wasting 70 billion dollars on nothing

00:11:04.960 yeah i mean it's amazing when you look at the look closely at what these announcements have

00:11:11.040 announced and how far they are from moving forward i mean they still have to go through a lengthy

00:11:17.440 regulatory process and consultation process it takes months years and at the end of it all i

00:11:25.920 mean it's still going to be tax dollars tax money that uh funds it because i mean many of these

00:11:32.800 companies uh were burnt after the northern gateway pipeline was was cancelled and energy east was

00:11:40.960 canceled and so they said well uh once burnt twice shy we're not putting money into these uh

00:11:47.840 pipeline uh proposals because that's all they are and you know when you've got a government that

00:11:53.200 seems adamantly really against uh the growth of the oil sector then they can make all the

00:12:00.320 announcements they want at the end of the day how much of this is gaslighting intended to convince

00:12:06.000 the people of Alberta that, oh, no, we're behind you 100%. And so that's the issue here. And the

00:12:14.000 other one, I guess, that your issue, I mean, I mentioned the electoral officer issue, but you

00:12:17.800 also have now a judge freezing assets of Jeff Rath, who's also very much involved, as you know,

00:12:24.440 Jeff, very much involved in the Alberta independence movement. And so he's got that issue having

00:12:30.520 $8.5 million frozen, and now he's involved in a fight for, I mean, I realize that's his deal,

00:12:41.360 but when you've got judges appointed by, you know, Ottawa, many cases, you know, involved in these

00:12:48.360 cases, they know what's going on, and they know the players, so you can't help but wonder how much

00:12:54.220 of their decisions are based on the political side of where these people stand. So you're

00:13:00.980 talking about somebody very much involved in the independence movement, and now you've

00:13:05.960 got a judge, I believe appointed from Ottawa, taking part in this. So obviously a federalist,

00:13:13.140 obviously somebody who may very well have a deep-seated enmity for the whole independence

00:13:18.360 movement. Do you think that that's coming into play here with this matter involving Jeff Rath?

00:13:24.220 I don't know. I hope the matter gets resolved soon. These are interlocutory hearings and I'm

00:13:34.200 familiar with Mareeva injunctions because that's what was used against us in the convoy. So I do

00:13:41.380 hope it gets resolved soon and it's an expedited process so I think there will be some closure

00:13:47.900 around it in a timely way. I don't think it's going to drag on for months and I hope it does

00:13:51.800 get results soon let's talk a little bit about the other issue involving the electoral officer

00:13:57.240 now you feel that this individual is playing fast and loose in the way he deals with your campaign

00:14:03.420 versus dealing with mr lukasic's campaign which is on the remain side is that right

00:14:09.440 well i think everybody should just take a look at the facts right i mean if you're going to engage

00:14:16.220 in a campaign and try and persuade others through advertising and spending money spending over a

00:14:21.280 thousand dollars is the tripwire you're supposed to register with elections alberta and you're

00:14:26.560 supposed to report weekly your donations as which which my organization does let alberta decide

00:14:33.520 um and you're you're you have to there's a limit on how much people can donate there's a prohibition

00:14:40.000 on foreign interference and foreign donations so there's strong accountability provisions thomas

00:14:45.760 Lukasik is the guy who caused the referendum in the first place with his petition for a referendum

00:14:52.000 on independence or to stay in Canada. He formed a group called Forever Canadian. He opened a

00:14:57.360 campaign office. He has campaign volunteers. He's handing out campaign signs and has a campaign bus.

00:15:03.600 And then the chief electoral officer says, oh, he's not campaigning. You reach your own conclusion.

00:15:08.400 I need to say no more. You know, Mr. Lukasik was just interviewed by the BBC. He talked the number

00:15:14.960 of times he's been quoted in the media on camera you can see it see his lips move it's not ai

00:15:24.080 where he talks about his determination to win the vote in october to cause people to vote to

00:15:29.760 stay in october to winning the vote in october he's election campaigning and elections alberta

00:15:36.720 seems to be picking sides and what's really deeply troubling is elections alberta has a

00:15:43.040 vital role in a democracy they're the ones who confirm and give validity to changes of power

00:15:49.440 and decisions on huge issues and for the chief electoral officer to so blatantly ignoring the law

00:15:57.040 and turning a blind eye to obvious and gross campaigning um atomic lakasik publicly said he

00:16:04.320 will accept donations from outside of alberta we know that cesus our security service has identified

00:16:12.160 foreign interference from the chinese government is a major concern they've highlighted it many

00:16:17.360 times is the chinese government sending donations to atomic lakasik we don't know all of the

00:16:24.160 donations i received for my organization let alberta decide are reported publicly every week

00:16:30.080 so it's extremely disappointing um it's incumbent upon the chief electoral officer to immediately

00:16:36.400 change course and apply the law fairly and evenly and try and restore the integrity of his office

00:16:42.480 because we have to trust the vote in october we have to trust that it's accurate and right now

00:16:48.240 given his willingness to blatantly turn a blind eye to gross and obvious campaigning is deeply

00:16:56.400 troubling you make an excellent point about foreign money going into that campaign it sounds

00:17:02.800 like Mr. Lukasik is the beneficiary of a lot of money. And so there is a question. We know that

00:17:10.480 the Chinese interfered with Canadian elections multiple times. In fact, there was a whole 0.96

00:17:15.040 commission around it, as you well know. I mean, is it beyond the realm of possibility that

00:17:20.280 they may be working to undermine your campaign? Well, I can only go by what CSIS says.

00:17:29.460 They're the Canadian Security and Intelligence Service, and they've identified foreign interference

00:17:34.580 as a very, particularly from China, as a very serious concern in Canada.

00:17:39.180 They've publicly stated it.

00:17:40.560 They've testified to it.

00:17:41.660 They've put it in their reports.

00:17:43.740 And we know that Tomic Lekasik has publicly invited people from outside of Alberta to

00:17:51.720 donate to his campaign.

00:17:53.520 So those are two pieces of objective evidence.

00:17:56.020 and it underscores the danger and the recklessness of the chief electoral officer's behavior.

00:18:02.820 He really needs to look in the mirror and say, what have I done and can I fix this?

00:18:07.180 And if he can't fix it, he probably should step down.

00:18:12.880 Okay. And what's next for your campaign? I mean, some of the polling is mixed.

00:18:19.980 How do you feel it's going overall for your side? I mean, you've got the referendum

00:18:25.960 coming up, I guess, which is a referendum to hold a referendum. I mean, do you think you're

00:18:33.060 going to win that? I do. And I do because by every objective measure, it makes sense for Alberta to

00:18:41.180 become independent. And even for those who haven't reached that conclusion, I mean, we'd be the

00:18:46.600 freest, most prosperous country in the world. New countries are formed all the time. There's been

00:18:51.820 over 50 new countries formed in the last 100 years on the planet earth this is not novel we have a

00:18:57.740 legal pathway to become independent our largest trading partners the united states our closest

00:19:03.020 trading partner the united states has already indicated they would recognize an independent

00:19:07.740 alberta we have minimal trade with the rest of the country we've got tremendous negotiating power

00:19:12.700 the rest of the country because we supply the energy and oil and gas to sarnia to run the

00:19:17.340 the Ontario economy, and we supply the oil to be turned into gasoline, diesel fuel, and

00:19:22.200 aircraft fuel to Burnaby through the TMX.

00:19:24.460 So we have tremendous bargaining power with the rest of Canada to establish a free trade

00:19:28.980 deal, to mean a cooperation and mobility agreement.

00:19:33.620 So what we're needing to overcome is the emotional argument about staying in Canada.

00:19:38.960 The Canada that I grew up in no longer exists.

00:19:41.340 People see it on the streets.

00:19:42.380 Just go to Toronto and go for a walk.

00:19:44.300 Go to an international airport and you'll see what I'm talking about.

00:19:48.280 Canada is not the same.

00:19:49.780 Our streets aren't as safe.

00:19:52.220 We've got a completely shift in values coming out of Ottawa.

00:19:55.500 They've been successful in making Canada into a post-national state.

00:19:59.680 And Albertans have a culture that we want to preserve and enhance.

00:20:03.480 We have the ability to grow.

00:20:05.260 So the key is getting to people.

00:20:06.960 And the constant reminder that these pipelines and other things are political theater and nothing more and bad policy will be, people will have reminders every time they go to buy something.

00:20:21.160 And we're using traditional campaign techniques.

00:20:24.400 We're focusing on the cities where our greatest growth potential is.

00:20:27.680 And we're using advanced digital strategies to reach people because everybody's on these things, right?

00:20:34.760 so we're I'm optimistic we're gonna win and especially the nature of the

00:20:40.940 question mark is that it doesn't require you to vote to leave it says do you want

00:20:46.760 the status quo stay everything's fine nothing needs to change or we can do

00:20:52.220 better Alberta can do better vote for option two which is to call upon the

00:20:56.240 provincial government to hold an actual referendum on separation so we've got a

00:21:00.720 tough hill to climb um letalbertadecide.com is our website if anybody's interested in donating

00:21:07.840 we could sure use the help we have unfair competition as we've talked about so try and

00:21:13.440 level the playing field we've got government using the resources against us but i honestly do clear

00:21:18.720 i think we can win this it's the right thing we have a pathway and i think some of the messaging

00:21:25.440 from the government is falling flat thank you keith wilson appreciate you coming on the show

00:21:31.040 Thank you very much.

00:21:32.700 If you enjoyed this show, consider supporting independent journalism

00:21:35.600 by becoming a premier member of Juno News.

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00:21:44.540 Thank you so much for tuning in.

00:21:45.720 We'll see you next time.

Juno News - July 15, 2026

Keith Wilson： Carney’s pipeline won’t stop Alberta independence

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