Juno News - Lawsuit against federal vaccine mandate continues

00:00:00.000 welcome to canada's most irreverent talk show this is the andrew lawton show brought to you by true

00:00:09.860 north hello and welcome to you all another live edition of canada's most irreverent talk show

00:00:20.180 the andrew lawton show here on true north on this wednesday june 15th just after 4 0 1 eastern time

00:00:27.560 if you're in the rocky mountains of alberta you are at what is it 201 if you're in bc you're at

00:00:33.080 101 if you're in newfoundland i think you had an hour and a half and if you're in the solomon

00:00:37.080 islands i have no idea but i trust that you know what time it is wherever you are i take that from

00:00:41.640 mark stein when he does his live audio shows he always starts with a beautiful poetic recitation

00:00:47.000 of the time zones around the world so he's he's rubbing off on me here but thanks very much for

00:00:52.200 tuning into the program today we're going to speak later on with united conservative party leadership

00:00:57.480 candidate rebecca schultz we'll talk to all of the ucp leadership candidates and in a moment

00:01:03.000 we'll talk to lawyer extraordinaire keith wilson but i just want to set the stage here because

00:01:08.680 the way the liberals were talking about it yesterday it's great news they have great

00:01:13.400 news to bring us some freedom for the peasants let's take a look at omar al gabra's comments

00:01:18.280 yesterday this is thanks to the millions of canadians who rolled up their sleeves and got

00:01:24.280 vaccinated that's why today's announcement is possible and i'm pleased to announce that on june

00:01:32.200 20th our government will suspend the requirement to be vaccinated in order to board a plane or train

00:01:39.400 in canada okay he was saying it was great news and you know we've earned it thanks to the

00:01:48.920 vaccination rates that sounds good that sounds nice what they've done is made it so that as of

00:01:55.080 june 20th you don't have to be vaccinated to board an airplane or a train in canada they've also

00:02:00.680 suspended the vaccine mandate for workers in those sectors and for federal employees so you could if

00:02:06.520 you're unvaccinated and you were laid off theoretically go back to work now here's the

00:02:11.000 thing it still is in place this arrive can app you still have to be vaccinated if you want to get out

00:02:16.520 of things like quarantine and testing if you want a friend to come visit you who's not vaccinated

00:02:21.400 they they can't come into the country it's that simple the air travel mandate hasn't even been

00:02:26.920 thrown completely into the scrap bin where it belongs it's been suspended it's been suspended

00:02:33.080 if you look at the government's messaging they're saying that they have to be wary of potential new

00:02:38.040 variants so this could just be a temporary reprieve a little temporary taste of liberty before the

00:02:43.160 winter comes around and we get thrust right back into it and obviously the airport situation right

00:02:48.360 now especially in toronto is driving this more than science because you can't defend the indefensible

00:02:54.680 and one gentleman who knows this all too well is the lead lawyer for a very significant piece of

00:03:01.080 litigation against the government on this that we have started with former newfoundland premier brian

00:03:06.760 peckford who is denied the right to travel the country by commercial air because he's not vaccinated

00:03:13.160 And in doing so, it's a large country.

00:03:15.360 He got to Ottawa during the convoy.

00:03:17.420 So you can get around it.

00:03:18.800 But generally speaking, this is not conducive to living in a country that supposedly has

00:03:23.680 mobility rights within it.

00:03:25.060 Keith Wilson joins me on the line now.

00:03:27.520 And I should just say, right before we get into it, Keith, in the background there, I

00:03:31.140 have my upcoming book, The Freedom Convoy.

00:03:33.500 I spoke to you for that.

00:03:34.920 And you gave tremendous insights, as you always do.

00:03:37.540 But it's good to have you on the show again.

00:03:39.680 I just ordered three copies.

00:03:41.240 I was hoping you might sign them, but I don't think Amazon facilitates that.

00:03:44.840 Hey, well, we'll have to meet up in person.

00:03:47.200 It would be my honor.

00:03:48.200 And thank you very much for that, Keith.

00:03:50.000 Let's start right out of the gate here.

00:03:51.620 The mandate is, let's just say it's gone.

00:03:54.440 Let's be charitable and say that the suspension will be permanent.

00:03:57.760 Your lawsuit is continuing, correct?

00:04:01.240 Yeah, and you know we're going to talk about the fact that it's not gone.

00:04:04.860 I appreciated your intro and that you've picked up on the sleight of hand here by the federal government.

00:04:09.740 So I can update you hot off the press here, so to speak. This morning, we were in emergency application before the federal court brought by the federal government lawyers. They are requesting that the Peckford lawsuit, and it's not just former Premier Brian Peckford, it's also a number of other, five other applicants, Canadians that we represent with my legal team through the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms,

00:04:38.460 as well as a couple of other lawsuits brought by from some very capable counsel, the Carl

00:04:44.900 Harrison case, and we're all consolidated into one case before the court.

00:04:51.680 So this morning, well, last night, we had a fight with the lawyers from Justice Canada

00:04:58.060 saying, well, you guys should be happy and fold your tent.

00:05:00.820 We said, no, we're not folding our tent.

00:05:03.540 Nowhere near.

00:05:04.380 even then it was less clear than it is this morning as to what exactly the government's

00:05:10.040 proposing but um or the position we took yesterday was even if all of the mandates are gone to give

00:05:17.180 your scenario life andrew we're still bringing this to court because canadians need to know

00:05:23.560 whether their charter rights mean anything this government has completely stomped on millions of

00:05:30.740 Canadians fundamental rights not just with respect to mobility the obvious ones but you know having

00:05:38.840 freedom to decide what the government can force you to put into your body religious freedoms and

00:05:44.800 other freedoms so we made it clear and I made it forcefully clear to the lead counsel for the

00:05:52.540 Attorney General that no matter what this case must proceed Canadians need to know one way or

00:05:58.440 another whether the charter means anything and whether governments can do this because as we all

00:06:03.500 know the number of times yesterday the minister said it's suspended we won't hesitate to bring

00:06:12.240 them back in September as Dr. Tam said the next wave is coming in September it's like

00:06:17.980 yeah you mean seasonality of flus yeah we I thought we knew about that so that gives you

00:06:23.420 some context we're going to move ahead regardless we're going to have a fight about it because

00:06:27.680 they're going to bring an application to have our lawsuit struck out. This morning, they were

00:06:33.260 trying to stop the cross-examinations that are ongoing that I'd like to talk about later in our

00:06:37.980 interview. They wanted to stop those because they're occurring as we speak, and we were

00:06:44.120 successful in getting the court to agree with us that in the meantime, we carry on and the

00:06:48.840 government can bring its application at a later date to try and knock us out. Yeah, I want to talk

00:06:53.340 about that cross-examination in a moment. But the first thing I would share with people, when

00:06:58.020 the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms was representing True North in our fight against

00:07:04.320 the Leaders Debates Commission, after we were excluded from covering the debate in 2019,

00:07:10.120 the government had that action thrown out on the grounds of mootness. We got the injunction,

00:07:15.580 we were allowed to cover the debate, we wanted to carry forward as well to get this on the record,

00:07:19.980 and the government said, no, no, no, it's moot.

00:07:22.060 The debate's done.

00:07:22.700 And then what happened in 2021, the Debates Commission again banned, not us, but Rebel

00:07:27.900 News from covering, and they were right back to square one.

00:07:31.440 So, I mean, that's just one example.

00:07:33.320 And there are many more of why you can't just say, or you shouldn't just say, oh, well,

00:07:37.960 the policy's done.

00:07:38.900 You have no grievance because that's a very convenient way for government to not have

00:07:42.980 a judgment against them in court if they just keep putting these things forward, taking

00:07:47.100 them back, putting them forward, taking them back.

00:07:48.940 Well, and to add some color to that, first of all, when is it that we are scheduled on this expedited process and we are working flat out like we're in six weeks of back to back daily cross examinations, most of which are highly technical experts or government officials with technical expertise.

00:08:11.240 piece. So we're working every day, six days a week, day and night to move this thing forward

00:08:17.340 and get it to the court as quickly as possible. Even with that accelerated timeline, when are we

00:08:21.680 supposed to be in court? The week of September 19th, I believe it is off the top of my head.

00:08:27.380 So when is the government talking about bringing back the mandates? September. So that's one

00:08:34.600 sleight of hand. But the other is you're right. They've already said mootness, mootness, mootness,

00:08:40.720 meaning for those who aren't legal geeks, mootness means there's no point in the court

00:08:46.800 deciding because the issue's resolved, right? The mandate's gone. However, it is not uncommon

00:08:53.920 in constitutional or charter matters to do a retrospective analysis. It happens all the time

00:08:59.560 in a criminal setting. Something happened six months ago, someone got pulled over,

00:09:04.560 the police did X, they didn't warn. Was it a violation of someone's charter rights against

00:09:10.260 unreasonable search and seizure. So it's not unusual for the court to not have, what's unusual

00:09:17.240 is to have an ongoing reoccurring breach of charter rights affecting 6 million Canadians

00:09:22.400 reoccurring every single day. That's what's unusual. So anyway, as you can tell, we're going

00:09:28.900 to make an aggressive argument that this case has to be heard. You know, I never like to get

00:09:33.400 too conspiratorial and it may be impossible to deduce motives from government, but do you think

00:09:38.740 in some level they don't want the information that you're getting from this cross-examination

00:09:45.560 process, which I'm assuming is supporting the idea that there is no scientific basis

00:09:50.220 for this mandate.

00:09:51.140 Do you think it's that they don't want that and that's why the timing is happening right

00:09:55.280 now?

00:09:55.580 That's why they're ending the mandates now and then trying to get, or suspending the

00:09:58.900 mandates and then trying to get this case dismissed?

00:10:01.700 Well, the legal team and I have talked about that and all we can do is speculate.

00:10:08.740 And we don't think the cross-examinations have been going particularly well for the government witnesses. And we think it's a factor. What level of factor it is, because as we know, even his caucus has started to turn on him.

00:10:24.520 uh the fact that you know one of the things that i've walked the government witnesses through

00:10:33.040 uh if i just might because it's it's it's it's serious but it's a little bit funny and i do it

00:10:39.480 with a completely straight face and i i say to like the epidemiologist or the

00:10:44.400 the person from health canada who approved the vaccines both of whom i've cross-examined

00:10:50.480 And I put to them, I say, all right, are you aware of any studies or medical evidence that suggests cell biology and physiology of humans who live in the United Kingdom, Europe, is different than the cell biology and physiology of Canadians in this geopolitical boundary called Canada?

00:11:16.220 and they kind of look like wow this lawyer is not very sharp and they go no you know human

00:11:22.280 biology is human biology and i go oh okay thank you um and are you aware of the the SARS-CoV-2

00:11:32.700 virus behaving differently in the geopolitical boundaries of the united kingdom and europe for

00:11:41.020 example relative to the geopolitical boundaries of canada and then they look at me like i'm really

00:11:46.040 stupid and say no and then i go okay are you aware from your life experience and your review of the

00:11:54.520 literature with respect to disease transmission risk and air travel whether there is something

00:12:00.440 fundamentally different and unique about the aircraft that are used to transport people in

00:12:06.680 canada relative to the aircraft that are used to transport people in the uk and europe

00:12:12.840 you see what i've just established yes there's no reason for a different policy

00:12:17.160 are you aware of any scientific information that you believe your colleagues

00:12:23.240 in the international health communities in other countries are aware of no okay well i think we've

00:12:29.880 just established this is political so and i don't get to say that last part that's for the judge

00:12:36.360 now i think that's brilliant and i think it points to an issue that a lot of people have raised why

00:12:41.400 Why is the science that we're supposed to be following so much different in Canada than

00:12:45.640 anywhere else?

00:12:46.320 Why are our doctors so much more enlightened than everywhere else?

00:12:49.400 Or are our doctors, quite frankly, not?

00:12:51.560 And are politicians not?

00:12:52.960 And people can draw their own conclusions from that.

00:12:55.080 But I will say, when you bring up that question, that line of questioning, and we look at some

00:13:01.240 of the other court rulings that have taken place, not at the Supreme Court, but on other

00:13:05.000 things related to lockdowns and other restrictions, courts, it seems like, have been very deferential

00:13:10.440 to government. And even when they've said, yes, a breach has occurred, they've saved that

00:13:14.720 under Section 1 by saying it's a reasonable limit. And I guess the, I mean, I would assume on this

00:13:19.980 case, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that it's ultimately going to come down to that Section

00:13:23.060 1 analysis to whether it's a reasonable limit. But do you think that on this issue, that latitude

00:13:29.620 and deference that we've seen is still going to be a factor? I don't know. We're assuming it is.

00:13:38.080 and that's why we've adopted a strategy

00:13:41.980 that I'm going to be careful not to say out loud

00:13:44.360 and that's partly why I've not been doing media interviews lately

00:13:47.360 because I'm worried I'm going to reveal the strategy.

00:13:49.680 We're very alive to that dynamic

00:13:51.580 and I believe we have a very powerful strategy

00:13:56.340 to neutralize it lawfully.

00:13:59.080 So it's a dynamic for sure.

00:14:01.580 And remember, there are some key differences, of course.

00:14:04.460 the early cases went when we were in the early phases of our whole covid nightmare and by the

00:14:13.160 nightmare i more mean the government response than the disease itself um um so little was known

00:14:20.400 uh the data was all muddled up you know you some guys riding a motorcycle pulls out to pass it

00:14:27.260 becomes a grill ornament uh of a cement truck they bring them in what's left of them they test

00:14:33.180 i'm always positive for covid oh there's another covid desk are you kidding me he was on a

00:14:37.320 motorcycle at a head-on collision with a cement truck anyhow so i could go on um we we believe

00:14:44.320 that this vaccine was going to be like a vaccine in other words stop you you get the polio vaccine

00:14:52.040 you don't get polio you get the pneumonia vaccine you don't get pneumonia you get the shingles

00:14:56.580 vaccine you don't get shingles yeah our triple vaccine just got covid for the second time in

00:15:01.340 four months yeah well and what's alarming too not to digress but just as a footnote one of the things

00:15:06.700 is really coming out is the people who are filling up the hospitals now to the extent there is any

00:15:12.700 filling occurring because even that's an overstatement but the ones that the group that

00:15:17.100 is the largest group in hospital is the triple vaxxed those are the ones that seem to have the

00:15:22.380 weakest immune systems given the actual data and the opinion of the experts that we've presented

00:15:27.820 so when we look at this mandate and i think politically we could all see it for what it is

00:15:34.900 it's punitive it's wedge politics i think it ultimately was prolonged after the convoy when

00:15:40.600 justin trudeau wanted to get back at these truckers that embarrassed him your view is that

00:15:45.700 this is not just one of the many policy options available to government this is strictly

00:15:51.540 unconstitutional government no government should have the right to do this correct

00:15:55.040 i don't think yeah i think it's a clear uh a clear violation of fundamental charter rights

00:16:01.820 i think it's a clear example of government overreach on steroids um yeah that's our position

00:16:08.320 and and we're uh um you know because there as you point out to your listeners that

00:16:14.080 um we're we're going to establish a charter breach it's just a question of how many i mean

00:16:19.560 mobility for sure um so then we're going to be into this section why one fight well what does

00:16:25.260 that mean well that means you're into the oaks test and that is is the infringement of charter

00:16:29.800 rights demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society uh was there a lesser measure

00:16:35.820 available to the government is there a rational connection between the restrictions and the harm

00:16:41.720 they're seeking to avoid well the air travel one fails on that in spades and then is there

00:16:51.520 proportionality is there proportionality between the impact of the violation of rights and the good

00:16:58.540 that comes from it and we're we're smoking them on that too and the interesting thing is

00:17:03.660 it's really legally important people may not pick up on this legal nuance but

00:17:07.960 as soon as so we have the onus to prove the charter breach so um we have to bring concrete

00:17:16.120 evidence to show it once we establish it in real time this is very rare in law there's a onus shift

00:17:23.100 it flips immediately over to the government where they have to present the evidence to prove they

00:17:28.340 meet the oaks test so um we're confident that we have sufficient evidence so far and we're only

00:17:36.520 we still have cross-examination scheduled for every day from now they started in mid-may and

00:17:44.060 they go up to june 30th and then we start our our court brief and our factum writing process

00:17:49.480 and as to whether there was a lesser means available now i wouldn't support this because

00:17:53.460 i think it's again incredibly intrusive but but even if the government because when the government

00:17:57.660 first introduced the vaccine mandate they had a testing alternative that you could use for the

00:18:02.280 first month to theoretically give people time to get vaccinated. And that was something that,

00:18:07.520 again, it would have been a useless bottleneck, was quite meaningless. There are lots of people

00:18:11.280 that test positive and would have no idea they're sick because it's a false positive or because

00:18:15.680 they're asymptomatic. But that would at least not close off air and rail travel to 6 million

00:18:21.400 Canadians like this. So, I mean, that right there to me is a less intrusive means that the government

00:18:26.580 didn't even seem like considered beyond that first month.

00:18:29.160 uh you're you're officially on the legal team as of right now uh no yeah we spotted that one too

00:18:36.880 yeah that's we've we've pursued that extensively uh you know okay you put it to the witness all

00:18:41.420 right uh a scenario a doctor uh you're you're vaccinated and you're sitting on an airplane

00:18:46.640 and you have a vaccinated person sitting beside you neither of you have been tested it's possible

00:18:53.040 you would agree with me doctor that that person sitting beside you could be positive with covid

00:18:57.400 correct and they could transmit it to you even though they're vaccinated correct yes yes yes

00:19:01.960 all right wouldn't you be safer if you're sitting on that airplane and an unvaccinated person was

00:19:07.400 sitting beside you that was tested before getting on the airplane you'd agree with me doctor that

00:19:11.480 that person's safer to you and has a greater likelihood of reducing the transmission of covid

00:19:17.320 right you know so and have they answered i'm in this cross-examination mode my apologies

00:19:24.440 No, I'm curious, though, if you're getting the clear answers.

00:19:27.860 I put it to you that the salt shaker is at the end of the table.

00:19:31.280 I say my poor wife.

00:19:34.160 So as we look at this then going forward, Keith, and I don't know how many people you get to subject to this cross-examination.

00:19:41.620 And let me tell you, I do not envy them at all.

00:19:43.800 But does it get to the, I mean, have you unearthed or have you approached that area of finding out who actually made this call?

00:19:51.100 because it often has seemed that it's not really the doctors that are making these calls it's the

00:19:56.320 politicians and in some cases the the politicians say that they're just completely hands off on this

00:20:01.480 but is that within the scope of what you're able to uncover oh yeah we pursue that every day

00:20:06.900 and it's i i kind of my wife and i have four kids and i kind of feel every day like coming home and

00:20:15.100 finding the cookie jar empty and saying to the kids all right who took all the cookies and they

00:20:20.640 all go, wasn't me, right? So what's become clear is they say either it wasn't them or if it was

00:20:36.960 them, so there's 16 government witnesses that the government has put forward, very senior

00:20:42.540 government officials, properly credentialed in the right places. They say that they only make

00:20:50.380 recommendation the decision as to whether or not the mandate remains or is in place or is revoked

00:20:55.300 is a political decision it's made by cabinet it's not made by them and then the cabinet ministers

00:21:01.100 were parading themselves before the microphones for the last several weeks saying hey it's not us

00:21:05.880 it's the experts well the experts have testified under oath it's not them so it's obvious that

00:21:10.660 this is just a political process and they're using uh they're engaged in a political decision

00:21:16.300 making process and it's just it's just become obvious to so many canadians what's really going

00:21:21.560 on here we have well we very much look forward to the trial and the other things you're able to

00:21:26.260 unearth there and i know you won't let them off the hook easily nor should you and uh thanks again

00:21:30.280 for uh for chatting as we're working on this freedom convoy book i think people will find you

00:21:34.600 had a lot to offer and we very much appreciate it thank you keith looking forward to it thank you

00:21:39.400 very much thank you keith wilson the lead counsel on the fight in federal court against the vaccine

00:21:46.200 mandate which has not been revoked it's been suspended and this is very important because

00:21:51.080 two weeks to flatten the curve was supposed to be two weeks the temporary becomes the permanent with

00:21:56.040 government and it's also interesting that a lot of this is coming right now when we're seeing huge

00:22:02.520 chaotic situations at airports well if you're making this a policy change just to deal with

00:22:09.400 airport craziness that's not covid science that's not the science of virology and epidemiology

00:22:15.480 that's trying to mitigate the problems at airports now again i i don't disagree with them lifting

00:22:20.760 this but it's proving that it's always been wafer thin if not non-existent scientific evidence to

00:22:27.640 support this and we're talking what this was in october so november december january february

00:22:31.880 march april may june eight months eight months that six million people in this country have been

00:22:37.880 denied the right to get on an airplane or get on a train and effectively because of that

00:22:44.920 denied the right to leave the country because there's a vaccine mandate at the land border in

00:22:50.360 the u.s now a lot of unvaccinated people have had no issue getting into the u.s because it's

00:22:54.680 it's lax enforcement but technically speaking have been prohibited from leaving their country

00:23:00.920 even to countries that don't have a vaccine mandate to countries that don't care whether

00:23:04.760 you're vaccinated or unvaccinated and even europe which conservatives have often looked at as being

00:23:09.560 where freedom goes to die has been above and beyond better than north america now that's

00:23:15.080 not to say early on it was the case i mean the uk was had an abysmal covert response arresting

00:23:21.160 people for sitting on park benches but they moved beyond it a lot more quickly to the point that now

00:23:27.160 there's not a single covet restriction or mandate in place in the united kingdom same as in most of

00:23:32.760 continental europe as well when i was in covering the world economic forum in davos no one asked me

00:23:39.080 for a vaccine passport no one asked me for anything of the sort people just took you as you

00:23:44.360 were they took you as you came and that was it but in canada we're still stuck in april 2020

00:23:51.400 to the point of just punishing the unvaccinated if it was ever about science it certainly isn't now

00:23:58.120 and i i look at i look at this this press release from the government where they say that they're

00:24:02.200 going to suspend the vaccine mandates for domestic travelers transportation workers and federal

00:24:07.160 employees well a lot of those federal employees have had to go find other jobs so i don't know

00:24:11.480 how many of them there are that can go back to work in the first place but moreover how eager

00:24:16.680 would you be how likely would you be to go back to your job if you know that the government's only

00:24:24.760 promising to have a temporary suspension the government's not guaranteeing that this is going

00:24:30.360 to be a permanent change the government is not guaranteeing that this won't just be thrust back

00:24:35.480 in the fall to how things are now and these people will be out on their rear ends again without jobs

00:24:41.640 so this is i think something that people need to start calling for accountability on from the

00:24:47.400 government and and there's going to be a rum spring of sorts where a lot of unvaccinated

00:24:51.000 people are booking their trips right now for the 20th say yeah i'm getting out of dodge and i've

00:24:54.760 talked to one of them who said i'm booking a one-way ticket you know i'm finally allowed out

00:24:58.360 of the country i'm not interested in coming back in and a load of good it is if they've made this

00:25:03.960 change but not allowed the unvaccinated to get out of quarantine not allow them to get out of

00:25:08.720 some of the testing requirements so and you still have to use arrive can and if you're unvaccinated

00:25:13.220 and not a canadian you still can't come into the country you're still prohibited from entering

00:25:17.740 canada so what's happening is all of these changes that are not being made the government is hoping

00:25:25.920 we will forget about and and we can never forget and never forgive vaccinated or unvaccinated i

00:25:33.880 don't care. The whole point that I've had through this whole time is that I do not care what you

00:25:37.940 choose to do. But what we can absolutely not do is forget that this was the government that for

00:25:44.620 eight months segregated society along these lines to the point of denying mobility within their

00:25:51.680 country by the most effective and realistic means available, which is getting on a commercial

00:25:57.800 airplane and it's not the airlines it's not the airlines behind this you had west jet whose ceo

00:26:04.280 was on a plane in europe taking a selfie without his mask and i think i mentioned last week uh

00:26:08.840 whenever i was when i think when it was last week yeah when i was in the uk and i had a little flight

00:26:13.000 from london he threw to dublin and no mask for that 90 minutes and you know what no covet no

00:26:18.920 covet by the end of it i don't know if i've got natural immunity or if i just got lucky

00:26:22.760 but i was completely fine the world did not crumble the plane didn't fall out of the sky

00:26:27.480 But these are all the things that we're being told are so dangerous.

00:26:32.040 We can't do it.

00:26:33.160 We have to trust the science.

00:26:34.420 Listen to the science.

00:26:36.280 And I think Keith Wilson's point on this was incredibly valid.

00:26:39.360 Why is the science supposedly so much different, so much more different in Canada than anywhere else?

00:26:46.100 Why is our science not as good as their science?

00:26:49.260 Or why is our science better than their science?

00:26:51.520 I would say that it's probably not as good.

00:26:53.280 That's why we're the only country in the world in a liberal democratic sphere, at least supposedly in a liberal democratic sphere, that is denying or was denied, well, is for the next five days denying the right to travel domestically by air or rail.

00:27:10.420 So all of this is part of a big discussion in Canada.

00:27:14.560 And to go back to the lawsuit, the whole point of this is that Keith Wilson, the Justice

00:27:19.400 Centre for Constitutional Freedoms, Brian Peckford, Maxime Bernier, they're still fighting

00:27:23.820 this because their argument is, and I think there's probably merit to that, the government

00:27:27.920 by its own admission, by its own admission, the government has said this is just a temporary

00:27:33.720 suspension. That if another terrifying variant of concern comes, if a government comes along and

00:27:40.720 does this and sees this and says, well, you know, we're not sure, like then what's going to happen

00:27:47.680 is we're going to be right back to square one. In any case, that is my little rant for today.

00:27:52.620 We'll cover this more as the story evolves or devolves, depending on what happens in the next

00:27:58.200 little while. But first I want to jump into Ontario, sorry, Alberta politics. That is a

00:28:02.480 that is a slip I am never, ever going to be forgiven for. What I was going to say is that

00:28:06.980 we had an Ontario election and spent a lot of time covering an Ontario politics, but now we're

00:28:11.320 going to jump to Alberta politics, where the UCP leadership race is in full force. We know that

00:28:17.860 the party is going towards a contest for who's going to become the Premier of Alberta and then

00:28:23.360 lead the party into the next election, now that Jason Kenney has announced he's stepping down.

00:28:28.080 And one of the candidates is the former Alberta Cabinet Minister, Rebecca Schultz, who joins me on the line now.

00:28:34.980 Rebecca, good to talk to you. Thanks for coming on today.

00:28:37.520 Hi, Andrew. It's my pleasure. Good to see you again.

00:28:40.400 Yes, we caught up at the Canada Strong and Free Networking Conference in Ottawa.

00:28:45.160 And at the time, we didn't even know there was going to be a leadership race.

00:28:49.120 And here we are, and you've announced your candidacy.

00:28:51.780 Why is it that you want to be the leader of your party and the Premier of Alberta?

00:28:56.300 You know, I would say that first and foremost, I believe in the future of our party, but also in the province of Alberta, we have so much to offer and we need somebody who can stand up and defend the constitutional rights of Albertans, make sure that we continue to drive economic growth and keep our party united so that we can defeat the NDP in 2023.

00:29:20.700 Our provincial election next year is in the spring.

00:29:24.200 And so I think, you know, it's been a really difficult time.

00:29:27.860 You know, I think obviously everybody knows that.

00:29:30.020 And I think instead of vilifying each other and as Conservatives, you know, focusing on some of the things that divide us, we really need a leader who can bring us together.

00:29:39.980 Remember who our true opponent is, which is the NDP, and take them on here in Alberta next year.

00:29:45.160 you know we had a leadership review for premier kenny that was very close virtually 50 50 so

00:29:51.900 no matter which way someone goes the party is divided the party is split down the middle

00:29:57.120 how do you not just build a winning coalition from that in the leadership race but beyond that

00:30:02.660 when you have that division in your party you know and it's tough and i think you know everybody

00:30:08.900 largely, whether I'm talking to party members or Albertans, I think people agree that they

00:30:14.720 fully expect governments are going to make decisions that they disagree with.

00:30:19.840 You know, I don't think it's that. What we've heard is that, you know, we've gotten off track.

00:30:24.560 Our government has done a lot of really great things. Our economy here in Alberta is kind of

00:30:30.920 on fire. We're taking off coming out of, you know, like I said, an economic recession, a tough two

00:30:35.940 years our unemployment is at the lowest rate since 2015 more jobs created every day things are looking

00:30:42.580 up but we did get off track oftentimes people say it was our tone we felt like how you were

00:30:47.780 communicating decisions um didn't show that you heard what we were saying we didn't feel heard

00:30:54.020 we didn't feel listened to um and so i think a we have to switch the tone b i am so dedicated

00:31:01.060 to the conservative movement um that is not something that's new for me i think we need

00:31:05.540 somebody who understands that the grassroots party members engaging with people, door knocking,

00:31:11.740 getting out there, listening and taking action, that's important. That's just as important as

00:31:16.160 governing is keeping our coalition together. And so I think, you know, it takes somebody that's

00:31:21.360 highly motivated, very committed. The first thing I committed to do is door knock in every single

00:31:27.000 constituency across this province, meet with our local UCP community boards and those presidents

00:31:33.120 make sure that they know that they have a seat at the decision-making table and that they're heard.

00:31:38.280 I'm willing to do that. You know, our opposition here, they are highly motivated. They are working

00:31:44.120 very hard. They are very disciplined. And we need a disciplined team. We have an awesome team.

00:31:50.580 We have amazing, talented MLAs, and they want their talents and strengths to be used as well.

00:31:56.340 looking at the the field itself two of the early candidates to get in brian gene and danielle

00:32:03.800 smith were coming into the race as outsiders from the the caucus well i guess brian gene not as much

00:32:09.560 of an outsider from the caucus now but but outsiders of the caucus over the last two years

00:32:13.460 and certainly from the cabinet you were a member of premier kenny's cabinet and obviously there's

00:32:19.260 been a lot of controversy about the handling of the covet file and i know you weren't the health

00:32:23.920 minister. You weren't responsible for that file specifically. But how have you felt the reception

00:32:30.280 in the last day since you've announced from the members towards you being a part of a government

00:32:34.240 that wasn't popular by the last, by the end of it, with the last, with a large chunk of the members?

00:32:40.500 You know, and I think the reception has actually been really positive. Like we kicked off the

00:32:46.440 campaign yesterday and we've seen a lot of support. I think part of it is because largely

00:32:52.620 what I've heard is people it's not just the decisions that were made and even on COVID even

00:32:56.700 at my announcement yesterday in my constituency there were people on all sides of the COVID issue

00:33:02.300 in one room united around our conservative movement on my around my candidacy and largely

00:33:08.060 I think again it's people had an issue with how some of those decisions were made how they were

00:33:13.180 communicated the tone they want to see people's differing views respected right and that people

00:33:19.900 aren't being vilified for for holding different views um me being able to say that out loud and

00:33:25.680 say look we didn't do everything right and my colleagues i know many of them sitting at that

00:33:30.580 table would say the same thing we didn't get it all right but i'm willing to tell you now here's

00:33:34.940 what i'm hearing from you i want you to hear it from me so that you know i'm listening and that

00:33:40.600 i'm going to show you the humility that you want to see in your government and your elected officials

00:33:45.120 because we're it's true we're not going to do everything right all the time um but i think

00:33:49.220 people want somebody who is committed to them, who wants to hear them and who shows some humility

00:33:53.680 and not just talks about it. Were vaccine passports, in your view, a policy itself that

00:34:00.600 was wrong or were they a victim of that poor communication that you just mentioned? So I would

00:34:06.060 say, you know, we in Alberta did do things a little bit differently. We tried to make sure

00:34:10.400 that there were exemptions to that program, the restriction exemption program, recognizing that

00:34:15.300 there were people making different choices for various reasons. We also had major issues

00:34:20.860 with hospital capacity. We did. We knew that was an issue even before the election, even

00:34:25.640 before COVID. But, you know, it's really, I think it's hard to say. It's easier to sit

00:34:32.340 on the sidelines and look at some of those issues. But when we were really, truly making

00:34:37.100 some decisions around full ICUs, hospital capacities, essentially crisis in the healthcare

00:34:44.140 system. And I think that's the issue we need to focus on is fixing that because we don't want to

00:34:48.880 be in that position ever again. I know we'll do we'll have you back on for a more formal interview

00:34:54.060 later on in the race as with the other candidates. This is more of an introduction. So I'll give you

00:34:59.080 a question that you can take any way you'd like here. What is it that your campaign is about?

00:35:06.560 So for me, our campaign is really focusing on getting back on track, saying that, look,

00:35:11.880 as conservatives, we do well when we come together, when we do not compromise on our conservative

00:35:17.500 roots. But I also think that we need to show some compassion and common sense when we're making

00:35:22.180 decisions. That is, you know, largely, I think what Albertans want to see. And I think that

00:35:28.140 that's going to help us unify and stay motivated and focused on, like I said, who our opponent

00:35:33.780 really is. You know, I do bring a unique perspective in terms of I am, you know, just as

00:35:40.280 excited about grassroots campaigning as every other aspect of the job. I firmly believe that

00:35:47.040 Albertans want to see a competent conservative government. I know they do, especially with what

00:35:51.160 we're seeing in the economy right now, but also making sure that people are communicating, people

00:35:56.700 like me communicating. You know what? I'm listening to the concerns of everyday Albertans, right?

00:36:03.180 We want a strong economy. We want jobs, but we also want to make sure that you got a family doctor

00:36:07.000 when you need it. I have two young kids. I want to make sure that they have a great education.

00:36:10.840 That matters to me. And so we got to talk about that stuff as well. And that's what I'm committing

00:36:16.200 to do. All right. Well, Rebecca Schultz, the Calgary Shaw MLA and former Children and Youth

00:36:22.100 Services Minister in Alberta. Congratulations on the campaign launch. We'll talk to you soon.

00:36:26.160 And thanks very much for joining. Thanks, Andrew. Anytime. All right. That was Rebecca Schultz. And

00:36:31.640 again, I'm saying we're inviting all the candidates. We had Danielle Smith on when

00:36:35.300 she launched. We've had Rebecca on this week. We're extending invitations to all the others for

00:36:39.660 introductory interviews, and then we'll do some more formal sit-downs once the race gets a bit

00:36:44.120 situated. Now, they're doing it, I should say, on a very different timeline. They're going to have

00:36:48.200 this sewn up, I think, more quickly, ultimately. I mean, they're starting later, so it's not going

00:36:53.080 to be before the federal conservative leadership race, but they're doing it in a tighter time

00:36:57.480 frame. So that'll be interesting to watch. And those rules just came out, I think it was yesterday

00:37:02.400 or two days ago so you can have a look at those and i should also say we're going to be doing a

00:37:07.580 formal sit downs with the federal conservative leadership candidates as well we have an interview

00:37:12.320 with jean chere coming out this week we'll also be speaking to patrick brown next week we're

00:37:17.460 trying to schedule everything with all of the campaigns as we can it's a very aggressively

00:37:22.300 camp it's aggressive campaign mode for them because the last leadership race no one was

00:37:26.580 allowed to travel because of covid so now we have one where everyone's doing every event every clam

00:37:31.680 I don't know if they do clam bakes anymore, but if they did, they would be at the clam bakes.

00:37:35.660 That does it for us for today. I want to thank you so much for tuning in. We'll be back

00:37:39.400 with more of Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show later this week. We'll talk to you soon. Thank

00:37:44.020 you. God bless and good day to you all. Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:37:49.520 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

00:38:01.680 Thank you.

00:38:31.680 We'll be right back.

Juno News - June 15, 2022

Lawsuit against federal vaccine mandate continues

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