LAWTON： The Left wants your guns
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Summary
In this episode of the True North Report podcast, Andrew Lawton talks about the gun control debate in Canada, and why it's not as simple as it seems. He discusses the recent spate of mass shootings in the United States and Canada, as well as the growing problem of gun control in Canada.
Transcript
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Good afternoon, Canada. Welcome to another True North Report.
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My name is Andrew Lawton, a fellow with True North here to talk about guns.
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Yes, I know people are going to say that this isn't the most pressing concern facing Canada, and I agree.
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I think there are a number of issues that we have going on in the country, issues that we have to deal with
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But I'm a firm believer, as I've said time and time again,
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that we need to deal with government overreach when it happens.
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Where it happens, even if it's not going to be the hill to die on for a lot of people,
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I've talked about this a number of times in the past,
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and I actually was feeling for a little while like, you know,
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people might be getting a little bit sick of it, but a couple of things happen.
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Number one, I see the response that I get to videos anytime I talk about firearms,
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But more importantly, I see the fact that government continues to give me reasons
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to talk about what they're doing on guns and what they're doing on firearms policy,
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because I think you'll get a lot of material out of here that you can work with that's important.
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If you are not a gun owner, and maybe you're not interested in firearms,
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I would still recommend you listen, because I think that you'll learn that a lot of the themes
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that we see emerging in the gun debate are things that are really ubiquitous throughout other areas of politics.
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I mean, when the government is prepared to use what is basically nonsense or dishonest rhetoric
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to take away any group's rights, they could do it with any issue.
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It doesn't have to remain confined to firearms.
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So when you look at how the government is justifying trying to restrict firearms usage,
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these are things that could happen to non-gun owners as well.
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but there's a lot else that's happening that I wanted to expand on.
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So welcome, I see a couple of people joining the chat.
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If you want to weigh in in the comments, anyone, do so.
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We'll take some questions as the live stream goes on.
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And if you have questions, again, you don't need to be an expert in guns.
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You don't even need to have ever held one before.
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This is ultimately a discussion about rights and about government overreach
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more than it is about the specifics of the firearms hobby in Canada.
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Though we will talk a fair bit about that as well.
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So, you know, I want to start with how this really came about
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And I think these were, just given the proximity of them to one another,
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Because when you're talking about a matter of one day
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and someone says, oh, wow, you know, that shooting is terrible,
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and you have to say which one, it's a terrible sign of where things are
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and see that Toronto had 14 different shootings in the same weekend
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And this gets a fraction of the media coverage.
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In fact, even Canadian media was focused more on the El Paso and Dayton shootings
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Number one, the U.S. shootings just had a greater death toll.
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So people are more inclined to talk about wherever the death toll is the highest.
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But also, they were conventional, or what we view as conventional shootings,
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It's not the typical gang violence that is so common in inner cities
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that it doesn't even warrant a front page mention.
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in that no one in Canada or in the U.S. wants to devote the same attention
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to shootings that are happening in inner city Toronto,
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because it's a lot easier to focus on the mass shootings
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where you can then politicize it to make it about gun control.
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Whereas when you look at shootings that are happening in South Chicago
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or in Toronto, no one is talking about gun control
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about gangs that are illegally using, illegally obtained firearms,
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illegal guns used for illegal and illicit purposes.
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And that brings us back to where we are with the Toronto issues.
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and we don't yet have the full breakdown of what happened where,
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but you know from looking at the profile and the locations,
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It's that we're talking about a segment of the population
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that doesn't quite care about gun laws or gun regulations
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or the conditions attached to your possession and acquisition license.
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We're talking about a demographic in, you know,
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gang-connected people that doesn't care about that
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And Brian Lilly referenced this in a column he wrote in The Sun.
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And I actually want to read it because I've made the point before,
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Those carrying illegal handguns are already in violation
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will prompt criminals to drop their illegal guns
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You can't just add one more ban, one more regulation,
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and expect that people who have shown a profound disdain for the law
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But that's exactly what the gun grabbers like John Tory and the NDP
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and the Globe and Mail editorial board are all pretending will happen.
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So we're back to the question of how the rhetoric used in this debate
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I want to read, and this was what I ultimately did the video on yesterday,
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the words that were used in a Toronto Star article
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that I think explain very much where the anti-gun community is coming here.
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And I'm going to read two different versions of the story.
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This was an article in the Toronto Sun that quoted Wendy Sukier.
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So let's not go with the kookier pronunciation, apt as it may be.
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Asks for her thoughts on how Toronto could be experiencing a surge
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in the number of shootings but a decline in gun-related deaths.
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Sukier, the Coalition for Gun Control president,
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said that legal gun owners tend to be more effective in killing people
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because they spend time at target practice or hunting.
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Quote, one of the terrible ironies is that when you see the proliferation of guns
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is often associated with gang violence, you have lots of shootings,
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but fewer people are killed, perhaps because they don't spend hours and hours at the shooting range, she said.
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Fast forward, I think it was about 12 hours, and this is the version of the article that appears online.
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Asked for her thoughts on how Toronto could be experiencing a surge in the number of shootings but a decline in gun-related deaths,
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Sukier, the Coalition for Gun Control president, pointed to examples of fatal shootings involving legal gun owners,
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such as the January 2017 Quebec City Moss shooting.
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And in those cases, it could be that experience with guns led to a more lethal outcome, she said.
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So you have in the first version of this story a resolute and specific claim
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that lawful, law-abiding gun owners are more effective at killing people than gang shooters are.
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And then that switches to a story of, well, maybe law-abiding gun owners could be more effective at killing people
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I reached out to an editor with a very specific question.
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Was this change made because the reporter got it wrong in the first version,
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or was it changed at the request of the source, of Wendy Sukier,
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I've seen Wendy Sukier's face memed by a lot of gun owners who are very frustrated in her claim,
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making the baseless claim that law-abiding gun owners are more effective at killing people.
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And even if this is true, because her point is that if you own a gun and you spend hours at the range,
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you're better at using it and you've got better aim.
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So if you were to use that to shoot a person, yes, you'd be more likely to get your target than someone else would be.
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But it completely misses the point when she's conceding in that same quote that law-abiding gun owners aren't doing that.
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You know, that's like saying, you know, yes, I could drive, you know, 250 kilometers an hour without batting an eye if I were in a Ferrari,
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but I don't have a Ferrari, so it's a moot point.
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Like, yes, I could do that if I had the means to do it.
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And, you know, law-abiding gun owners with experience could, you know, kill someone if they were going to kill someone, but they aren't.
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And the stats show that law-abiding gun owners are, by and large, and this is statistically proven, safer than even the general population.
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By virtue of having a gun license, I am, I believe that the latest research from Gary Mauser says,
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I am one-third as likely to commit murder as some random person who's not armed on the street or who's not lawfully armed on the street.
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People trying to claim that law-abiding gun owners have to shoulder the brunt of gun violence when the stats say the complete opposite.
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But unfortunately, if you start talking about handguns or assault weapons, and I've done videos in the past on why assault weapon is really a made-up term in the Canadian context.
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But when you have the liberals and the Globe and Mail editorial board and the Toronto Star and the, you know, columnists and the activists
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and all of these people saying we've got to ban handguns and ban assault rifles and all of this stuff,
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what you see happening is a lot of Canadians who are not gun owners, and gun owners are a sizable group.
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I think there are about 2.2 million licensed gun owners in Canada.
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It's a sizable group, but it's still a statistical minority in Canada.
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When you've got people saying, you know, guns are violent and we don't want guns,
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there aren't enough people with experience in this area who can speak up and say,
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I don't think that's right that you would target this group of people who have done nothing wrong,
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who are posing no threat, no risk, and no harm to anyone.
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But that's, you know, what we see happening here.
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And for the liberals, I've said in the past that it tends to be somewhat of a safe bet
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if the liberals want to go after gun owners because, A, they're not alienating their own voters,
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and, B, most people in cities don't even know how relatively common guns are in the first place.
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So someone in a city is going to be like, yeah, why does anyone need a handgun?
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The liberals don't want handguns, and the conservatives do, and the PPC do, and the NDP don't.
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So I'll choose between the liberal and the NDP.
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So we do need to speak out about the truth on this area.
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And I'm a firm believer in the fact that the media should educate themselves on guns.
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I think anyone who writes about crime stories, anyone who writes about guns,
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should actually go and get their possession and acquisition license,
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know what it is that goes into it, so that when a story does come along, you know,
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So this person that they're saying is a shooter probably hadn't done that
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because otherwise this would have been revealed.
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Indeed, I remind you that gun owners or licensed gun owners in Canada
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You are subject to a warrantless home inspection
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hey, we need to make sure you're storing things properly.
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And you can have your property seized at any point for even the slightest or unintentional of issues.
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So all of this is to say that the debate right now is being had on facts that are not real facts.
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And I'll share this with you because I think that as we near the election,
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we run out of time for the government right now, the liberal government,
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All they can really do after a certain point is talk about things they'll do if they get reelected.
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Why Ottawa is Hedging When It Comes to Handguns.
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And it's from Jonathan Gatehouse who says government is weighing the results of last year's consultations
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Ralph Goodale, the public safety minister, did an interview on power and politics.
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it's appropriate for the political parties to lay out for Canadians
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where they would go with this particular issue,
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noting that any legislative changes will have to wait for parliament's return.
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So he's saying we are not doing anything as a government
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we are going to put forward our vision as part of our platform in the next election.
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And I think that the reason he's doing this is because the liberals have done their polling,
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they've done their research, they've done all of this stuff.
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And I think they've probably come to an understanding that it's not as politically safe as they think it is.
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It's not as politically safe as they think it is,
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which means that they have to really be very careful if they're going to put forward something
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that risks threatening people's rights, people's property, whatever the case may be.
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The liberals, you can mock them all you want, but they're not stupid.
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They want to stay in office, which means that if there's something that's going to just profoundly blow up in their face,
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And I think that when they look at the rural population, the urban-rural divide,
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people outside of Toronto and outside of big cities, of which there are still millions in this country,
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they must be aware that, okay, if we tell these groups we're going to take away your guns,
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I know I'm quoting him a lot, but he's a great guy.
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you know that if the liberals who have been talking for years about wanting to do a handgun ban are not doing it right now,
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they know how politically disadvantageous it would be.
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If they thought there was even a percentage point they could go up in the polls by trying to ban handguns, they would.
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So they are going to do it by virtue of running on it and then doing it if they win again.
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which is what they're going to do about the so-called assault weapons issue.
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We've got to have a bit of an honest look at what assault rifles are.
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And what an assault rifle actually is, is already banned in Canada.
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You can't have a fully automatic firearm in Canada unless you're one of a tiny, tiny, tiny number of people
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that has a prohibited license and had it grandfathered in.
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And we're talking about a minuscule number of these guns that would exist in Canada.
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So when people talk about assault rifles, what they're actually talking about typically are AR-15s,
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variants of the civilian versions of military rifles that by their design are made to not be fully automatic,
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to be semi-automatic, like a lot of non-restricted hunting rifles are.
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And these things, again, because of a lack of understanding,
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are very likely to be included in any sort of ban.
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And the liberals have already talked about this, of wanting to ban what Bill Blair said are guns used to hunt people.
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But the reason I go back to that quote, and I think I might have been alive when that happened some months ago,
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things that are used to hunt people, is because it's very similar to the rhetoric we have from Wendy Soukye.
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So just a couple of months ago, Bill Blair is on a question period with Evan Solomon.
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And he says the government wants to restrict guns that are used to hunt people.
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And then you fast forward to the Toronto Star on Tuesday of this week, or Tuesday night, Wednesday morning.
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And Wendy Soukye of the Coalition for Gun Control is saying that gun owners,
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legal gun owners, are more effective in killing people.
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Because they spend time at target practice or hunting.
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You cannot be a legal gun owner and be effective at killing people.
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Because once you start to use your gun to kill people, shockingly, you're no longer a legal gun owner.
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You aren't. You are no longer following the law.
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And these are not the people that are owning Canada's guns legally.
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Now, what was interesting here, and we see this in the rhetoric coming from the Liberals now,
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is that they've started to walk back because of, I think, a lot of the efforts from,
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I don't want to sound too arrogant, but people like me and Brian Lilly, people like gun lobbyists,
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people that have been unrelenting and wanting to talk about these issues over the last few months.
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But you have them starting to realize that, okay, we can no longer blame crime guns on domestic,
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legally owned firearms that then became crime guns.
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We know that there is an issue in guns crossing the border.
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There was a global news piece this week where Christian Luprecht from the Royal Military College was quoted on this.
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And he said, look, we share a border with one of the largest gun-producing nations in the world.
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It also happens to be the largest unprotected border in the world.
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So you can't expect that we can manage our supply without having to deal with guns being imported illegally from the U.S.
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But the thing is, you know, there's another point to this that I think is valuable.
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And that is that I don't want the neighboring America thing to become too much of a focal point.
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And the reason I say that is because Phelan McAleer and Anne McElhenney,
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two very smart people that I think are just absolutely fantastic voices,
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and they just launched a podcast out of the U.S.
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They're a married couple who now lives in California.
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And they're great conservative filmmakers, documentarians, and now podcast hosts.
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And this week, it was yesterday, Phelan McAleer said on the podcast that he's from Northern Ireland,
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which is an island off of an island off of an island, basically.
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You know, it is entirely isolated in the sense of the easiest to secure.
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And even Northern Ireland, which had among the strictest gun control in the world,
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was a place where thousands of people, women and children even, were gunned down with illegal guns.
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So even a literal island was not able to protect itself from illegal firearms.
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And this is the case with Australia, whereas you have in Australia a literal island nation
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that despite its gun grab has still seen firearms crime.
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They've still seen firearms crime and not in insignificant numbers,
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despite having a nationwide gun confiscation several years ago,
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under, believe it or not, a conservative in John Howard.
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I want to read a comment here from Lars, who writes,
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When 60% of gun crimes in Canada involve handguns, I say get rid of them specifically now,
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increase penalties for gun smuggling, and establish firm regulations on any type of weapon
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So, first off, I appreciate you listening and watching, Lars, and I appreciate you commenting.
00:21:21.460
When you say get rid of them specifically now, what are you even talking about?
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Why should I have to get rid of my handguns when my handguns and those owned by people like me,
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who have gone through the background checks, they're registered, they're stored in a certain way,
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when our guns are not the ones being used in gun crimes,
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I think if anyone is illegally importing firearms into Canada, throw the book at them,
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lock them up, deport them if that's what need be.
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As far as regulations on guns that could be construed as an assault rifle,
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The problem is that the media definition of an assault rifle
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is different than the actual definition of an assault rifle.
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The media definition, even Bill Blair's definition, now that he's a politician,
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the Liberal Party's definition is different than the actual definition.
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If we focus on the actual definition, boom, assault rifles are already banned.
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The guns that are used in mass shootings are not going to matter
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because if you ban one model, anyone who is prone to violence will use a different model.
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And I did a video which was actually a very important video, and I'm glad I did it.
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It was in defense of the AR-15, and I just bought one recently.
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And the AR-15 is one of the most popular guns because of it's fun to shoot,
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it's easy to shoot, it's customizable, and you can do a lot with it.
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The reason it's used in more mass shootings than anything else
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is not because it's a more violent or deadly or lethal gun.
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And the comparison that I gave when I did that video is that
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if, let's say, the Honda Civic is the most popular car on the road right now,
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statistically, the Honda Civic is going to end up in far more car accidents
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than the Maserati or the Porsche Cayenne or the Mazda 3.
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So that doesn't mean Honda Civics are more fatal.
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It means that Honda Civics you see in larger numbers,
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ergo, it's going to be more represented in negative things that happen on the road.
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So we don't need to re-regulate or further regulate assault rifles.
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And more importantly, just because 60% of gun crimes involve handguns,
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we don't need to get rid of the legal handguns, the lawfully owned handguns,
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which just simply are not ending up used as parts of crime.
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More importantly, it's a dangerous concession because it allows the gun grabbers
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to incrementally move further and further towards nationwide disarmament,
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which benefits absolutely no one except the government,
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except the elites that don't want anyone to own firearms.
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And I must say again, because people always bring up the question of,
00:24:19.500
Most people don't need two cars in their household.
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Most people don't need to buy a brand name tomato sauce instead of no-name tomato sauce.
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Most people don't need a Mac instead of a computer.
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I mean, the fact is we do not define what we are allowed to own in a free country
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We define it by what we want and what does not interfere with the rights of others.
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And me owning a gun when I've gone through all of these different steps and stages
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threatens no one's rights, no one's right to life, no one's right to safety.
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But disarming me or any other gun owner would threaten our rights.
00:25:00.720
And when people try to use El Paso and Dayton and other horrific shootings for which I genuinely
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offer my thoughts and prayers, even though this has become a line that people mock, when
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people try to use these incidents and import that baggage into Canada to change our gun laws,
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this is where I go back to people needing to understand how our gun laws work in Canada.
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We already quite effectively managed to keep guns out of the hands of mass shooters.
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We have a much better system for mental health care.
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We have a much better system for background checks, reference checks.
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I do think that there are some areas where what we have is too restrictive, but our gun
00:25:43.600
regime in Canada is apples to oranges when stacked up against the gun regime in the U.S.,
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which is why you see things happening in greater numbers there that don't happen in Canada,
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despite how many millions of firearms there are in circulation.
00:26:00.520
I don't know if it's still true, but at one point we had more long guns per capita than
00:26:05.120
anywhere else in the world, even more than the U.S., and that was referring to mainly
00:26:10.560
And I mean, the U.S. certainly takes the cake as far as civilian ownership of handguns
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And like I said, I don't know if that number is still valid, but I do know that it's very
00:26:20.120
high, the amount of guns that exist in Canada that are in, I don't know if circulation is
00:26:25.840
the right word, but that exist in civilian homes, trucks, hunting cabins, whatever.
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And the fact that we have this without having a country that seems like it is unsafe or at
00:26:37.160
risk of excessive gun violence everywhere says that what we do is working.
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And because of what we're doing is so effective, why do we need to disarm anyone?
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When you look at Toronto having rapidly increasing rates of shootings, this is not something that
00:26:56.500
has ever changed when any gun control measures have been changed.
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When Stephen Harper, put it this way, when Stephen Harper loosened the gun control regulations,
00:27:06.080
When the Liberals strengthened it, Toronto gun crime has actually gone up this year.
00:27:10.000
I'm not saying it's related, but it certainly hasn't dented it.
00:27:12.880
So the things that governments are doing on this are having no frontline impact on the
00:27:19.980
realities that are facing gang-related crimes in Toronto and other cities.
00:27:25.280
And that's because these things are existing on a parallel track, irrespective of the law.
00:27:34.960
And you shouldn't even try because you basically prey on people being conciliatory.
00:27:39.520
And feeling a level of collective responsibility when a shooting happens.
00:27:51.780
And again, I mean, these mass shootings are used to make it very difficult for someone to
00:27:58.020
stand up and defend guns because it looks like you're being callous.
00:28:02.720
Whereas I say no, because I know that legal gun ownership has nothing to do with these
00:28:10.480
So while I will mourn and pray and be sad about these things, I'm not going to shoulder any
00:28:16.800
And I don't think any other Canadian should have to.
00:28:19.360
So I fundamentally reject that premise that's tried to, that is attempted to be rammed down
00:28:30.900
And they're going to use any excuse to justify putting a ban or a restriction in place.
00:28:35.920
And I would pay very close attention to how that will be manifesting itself during the
00:28:42.420
Because the liberals have decided they'll kick the can then, but if they win another
00:28:46.120
term, we know we're going to be stuck with it because it may not be possible to stop
00:28:53.100
Now we'll have lots of opportunities between now and the election to predict the numbers.
00:28:57.220
I don't want to get into that now, but I do want to, from a firearms ownership perspective,
00:29:01.040
talk about what the stakes of these things really are.
00:29:06.620
I do want to make somewhat of a personal appeal though, if I can here, because, you know,
00:29:11.660
I just laid out in this broadcast a few examples of where the media is not on side with firearms
00:29:18.720
ownership, the liberal parties are not, the NDP is not, the left culturally is not, there's
00:29:25.620
an activist community that the media flocks to that is trying to take away gun ownership
00:29:31.260
And it does sometimes feel very lonely in this fight.
00:29:34.900
There is a gun lobby, yes, but I'm not a gun lobby.
00:29:40.700
We cannot advocate for you without your support because we don't get the billions of dollars
00:29:45.820
or hundreds of millions of dollars that CBC gets, that mainstream media outlets in Canada
00:29:51.100
Every dollar we get comes from you, comes from people that support the work that we're
00:29:56.400
So please, please do give us either a one-time contribution or join my heritage club, which
00:30:02.880
There's a little description box in the corner there on Facebook, or if you're watching on
00:30:09.700
Do click the link there to my heritage club and join.
00:30:14.220
And I know that a lot of people talk about these issues, but we really need people that
00:30:19.420
So I'm asking you, conservative to conservative in Canada, but freedom-loving person to freedom-loving