Juno News - Leaders Debate 2021 - True North Exclusive Coverage

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00:06:30.000 Hi, we're live downtown Toronto, sorry there's a little bit of a technical glitch there,

00:06:56.240 But tonight is the election night special here at True North.

00:06:59.300 We're so excited for all the programming that we have here tonight.

00:07:02.600 I'm joined in studio by a group of my friends.

00:07:05.360 I'm really excited to have Sue Ann Levy, a True North contributor here.

00:07:09.180 We have Anthony Fury, the editor over at the Toronto Sun,

00:07:12.360 and Hamish Marshall, True North's in-house pollster for the election.

00:07:15.660 We have a lot to talk about.

00:07:16.620 We're going to talk about all things politics, all things federal election.

00:07:20.080 But first, we're going to go over to Andrew Lawton,

00:07:22.860 who is live with us in Gatineau, outside of the federal leaders' debate.

00:07:27.880 Andrew, what's going on over there at the leaders' debate?

00:07:32.020 Well, of course, at the exact moment you asked that question,

00:07:35.340 a bunch of protesters start shouting.

00:07:37.100 There are a lot of PPC protesters here, actually.

00:07:40.080 Maxime Bernier and the People's Party upset about not being included in the official debate,

00:07:45.460 so they decided to have a rally outside the Canadian Museum of History here in Gatineau.

00:07:50.160 It's been very peaceful, no issues in the time that I've been out here.

00:07:54.120 As of right now, I'm actually in the secure part of the debate venue, outside, as we await the arrival of the leaders.

00:08:00.940 So far, just Annamie Paul has arrived, which means there are four leaders left to go for the five who will be debating tonight for the first and only time in English.

00:08:11.460 Interesting. And so what are you expecting for the debate? Are the leaders there yet? Has anyone arrived?

00:08:18.120 so just anime paul has arrived right now the the others will be on route very shortly because this

00:08:24.460 is kicking off in about an hour's time one of the interesting things that that i think uh from the

00:08:29.620 last debate which is the french language debate last night that will be a bit different is that

00:08:34.200 this one's a lot more widely viewed this is the one that's more likely to get clipped and picked

00:08:38.400 up by the media so if there were leaders that were holding something back in the tank if you will

00:08:43.320 I think we can expect to see that come out tonight.

00:08:48.140 Is the format going to be the same?

00:08:50.120 I mean, I tuned into the French debate last night.

00:08:52.340 I don't think there are many people, other people,

00:08:54.460 they're just judging by the numbers on YouTube and the live streams.

00:08:57.880 But can we expect a similar format?

00:09:00.000 Last night, there was, you know, it was very scripted.

00:09:03.700 There wasn't really a lot of back and forth,

00:09:04.960 not a lot of opportunities to get into real debates.

00:09:08.400 And they covered a lot of grounds.

00:09:09.780 But the issues that they covered were, in my mind,

00:09:12.740 not the most relevant issues in the country.

00:09:14.960 Do you know if it's the same format tonight as it was last night, Andrew?

00:09:18.780 It's very similar. There are some minor differences.

00:09:21.540 Of course, the moderators are a bit different.

00:09:23.740 But they're sticking to that idea of having five core themes.

00:09:26.760 And what's interesting, and what's been one of the bigger criticisms

00:09:29.780 put towards the debate since they announced the themes,

00:09:32.640 is that there is not going to be a foreign policy section at all.

00:09:36.140 There's going to be talk about leadership and accountability,

00:09:38.880 some COVID recovery, reconciliation,

00:09:40.940 but no talk of foreign policy and a lot of people feel like well we have a crisis with Afghanistan

00:09:46.420 a growing conflict with China like we're missing out on a very key part of the campaign here

00:09:52.460 remember for the first week Justin Trudeau couldn't have an event without being asked about

00:09:56.640 what was happening in Afghanistan and Canada's response or lack thereof so the fact that that

00:10:01.880 isn't going to be brought up here officially is a big frustration for people now in response to

00:10:07.840 this what some people have said is, well, there's no reason a leader couldn't bring it up in some

00:10:12.600 other form, you know, maybe bring it up in the accountability section. But that's going to be

00:10:16.520 one of the big things that I think a lot of people are going to see is missing from tonight's debate.

00:10:21.160 Kind of sad, isn't it, Andrew? I remember back when the media used to organize these debates

00:10:25.420 before it was a government commission that did it, and that was a new thing under Trudeau.

00:10:30.300 We'd have lots of debates. We had, I remember, McLean's hosted an entirely foreign policy

00:10:35.180 debate back when Harper was the prime minister in 2015.

00:10:39.740 And, you know, it seems that the government's taking control of these debates, but they

00:10:43.700 haven't really done a very good job.

00:10:44.900 It seems bizarre, just given, you know, Canada's place in the world, doing Trudeau's whole

00:10:48.920 thing before was Canada's back and look at us in the world stage.

00:10:52.420 And here we are in 2021.

00:10:54.220 You know, we've lived through a global pandemic. 1.00

00:10:56.540 We have China on the rise.

00:10:57.860 We have Afghanistan falling to the Taliban.

00:11:00.600 And yet nothing on foreign affairs, foreign debate.

00:11:03.980 It's really, really sad.

00:11:06.660 Yeah, and I'm sure Hamish can tell you when you get to discussing things later on that foreign policy does not traditionally move votes, but that doesn't make it less important.

00:11:15.140 And the whole reason for the government takeover of the debates, the formation of this Leaders Debates Commission, was to supposedly create a debate that wasn't beholden to the interests of private media companies that would serve a public interest.

00:11:27.560 So you have to look at and say whose interests are being served when some pretty key issues that matter to the country are being left out of the discussion.

00:11:35.200 So I think that's a big, a big issue here.

00:11:38.000 And again, you know, there are other opportunities that leaders can still bring up whatever issues they want in the scrums, depending on what they're asked and throughout the course of the campaign.

00:11:46.080 But that's going to be one of the noteworthy aspects of this.

00:11:48.540 And just looking at kind of the analysis from last night's debate, the French debate, a lot of the times what is discussed matters a lot more than what's said in response to it.

00:11:59.000 One notable example of this is a question on climate change from an 11-year-old.

00:12:03.840 And the entire premise of the question was based on gloom and doom.

00:12:07.800 The question used the term climate catastrophe.

00:12:10.640 The 11-year-old was saying he's worried about his future kids.

00:12:13.160 And so it becomes very difficult for any leader to really have a discussion about this when it's already been framed in a particular way.

00:12:20.340 So format matters.

00:12:22.100 It's so sad. Honestly, everything that's wrong with the country and the way that we, even the way that we introduce these topics to kids,

00:12:28.760 we're giving these little kids anxiety, giving them fear about a politicized concept.

00:12:33.260 I was really bothered, Andrew, last night when they had that 11-year-old.

00:12:37.160 And look, he did a great job.

00:12:38.100 but honestly like the idea that he was asking about what his kids like 11 year old saying what

00:12:44.280 will my kids future look like I don't know an 11 year old that thinks that way I have a hard time

00:12:49.860 believing that he came up with that question on his own it was actually it was almost like a lost

00:12:53.560 in translation moment like did I hear that correctly this little 11 year old just asking

00:12:57.380 about his own kids that to me that was just pure political uh propaganda and it was really

00:13:02.240 disappointing to see. Andrew, quickly, just one more question. What can we expect format-wise?

00:13:08.200 So we have a two-hour debate, and then let us know a little bit about what to expect after that.

00:13:15.980 So it's going to be just the debate itself for a moment. It's going to be broken up into five

00:13:19.520 themes. So roughly, that will work out to be the two hours divided evenly among those themes.

00:13:25.820 And interestingly enough, I think what we're likely to see is a fair bit of crossover there.

00:13:30.400 So I do think that some of the discussions won't be as easily confined to their section just because of the format.

00:13:36.340 And then after the debate, all the leaders, all five who are participating, will come and do a 10-minute scrum each for reporters.

00:13:43.640 And this was something, if anyone did watch the French-language debate last night, you'll know I was able to get a couple of questions in.

00:13:49.140 One to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and another to NDP leader Jagmeet Singh.

00:13:53.700 And it's kind of a bit of a luck of the draw as to which leader you get to ask a question to.

00:13:57.780 But obviously, you know, the reason I'm here is because that opportunity to put questions to leaders who might not otherwise take questions from reporters or take questions from us allows us to ask things that do matter to a lot of people but haven't really been front and center in much of the campaign coverage.

00:14:13.340 So, you know, it may just be, you know, a 50-minute period after a debate, but it's a very important 50-minute period because that's where you get an opportunity to sometimes go beyond the talking points or at least beyond the issues that have been taking up a lot of the oxygen of the campaign.

00:14:27.000 Right, and I mean, it's the closest that we at True North come to being able to ask Justin Trudeau questions and hold him accountable.

00:14:33.780 It's great that you got that question into him last night, Andrew.

00:14:36.300 And unfortunately, you know, Justin Trudeau's never answered a question, I don't think, in his life.

00:14:39.760 He talked, you know, you asked a question and then he talked for a minute, but he didn't really address your question or answer it in any way.

00:14:47.220 But still, you know, you've got to take your chance and put questions in.

00:14:50.900 Well, we really look forward to it.

00:14:52.000 To me, you know, that's the most exciting part of the night is those scrums afterwards.

00:14:55.420 but obviously we've got a big night planned and lots of exciting things so

00:15:00.240 Andrew thank you so much for joining us from Gatineau and we look forward to

00:15:05.600 seeing you later on in the show. Well I think I saw some bourbon there so save

00:15:09.360 me some when I get for when I get back to Ottawa.

00:15:12.380 Alright so I feel like there's a lot to talk about and you know what what Andrew

00:15:18.500 and I just got into a little bit was that the fact that there are protests

00:15:22.180 outside of this event. We've seen protests throughout the entire campaign and I feel

00:15:25.900 like that is the theme of this campaign is Justin Trudeau's unpopularity. He

00:15:30.880 obviously called this election because he believed that he was going to get a

00:15:34.180 majority. He thought that, you know, the polls, I believe at the time, were telling us that he was

00:15:38.240 going to win a majority. Is that right? Absolutely, yeah. If you look at the polls

00:15:41.900 week before the election was called, the majority was the most, by far, the most

00:15:45.160 likely outcome. His personal popularity numbers were not, they weren't

00:15:50.020 spectacularly good but they were better than they were two years ago when he went

00:15:53.020 into the 2019 election they were looking decent and really the big story of this

00:15:56.620 campaign has been his personal numbers have just tracked down our own poll

00:16:00.220 showed he's certainly dropped over the last three and a bit weeks and you know I

00:16:06.100 think this debate's maybe a good part of that whether he can try to try to recreate

00:16:09.400 some of that old magic but what we thought what I've certainly found in

00:16:12.880 research with with about Dustin Trudeau in the past is he's unusual politician

00:16:17.080 and then once people decide they don't like him for whatever reason we

00:16:19.960 does something whether it's you know blackface or the trip to India or any

00:16:25.900 number of a hundred other gaffes is once they stop liking them they'll just sort

00:16:29.380 of start liking a little bit or disliking a little bit more you just

00:16:32.380 really dislike them. A lot of people really like them but really dislike them and he really

00:16:36.820 polarizes people so his ability to get people back or charm them again is very

00:16:41.620 very limited and that's why I think the selection is very tight. What do you think?

00:16:45.280 What is it about Dustin Trudeau that you either love him or you hate Anthony?

00:16:48.520 Well, you know, it's a phrase that they apply to Greek tragedy, hubris.

00:16:52.680 And that's what we've seen here in all of this.

00:16:55.500 As Hamish says, things were looking good for him.

00:16:58.440 He says, well, maybe they can look better.

00:17:00.920 Maybe I can go.

00:17:02.060 And at this moment where lots of divided opinions on the pandemic, stuff was going to happen in Afghanistan.

00:17:09.000 I know he didn't think it would be the exact day he went to the governor general.

00:17:11.580 But perhaps if he had his eye on the ball a bit more and been talking to the commanders on the ground,

00:17:15.880 then he would have foresaw, okay, this is the situation that's going to happen right when I call for this election.

00:17:21.100 So I think hubris thought the better of him.

00:17:23.260 And that may be the story of his whole political career.

00:17:26.980 Well, I mean, in some ways it served him well.

00:17:29.200 I was thinking back to Justin Trudeau in 2015, and, you know, there was something exciting about him.

00:17:34.900 I was never a Trudeau fan or anything like that.

00:17:37.000 But, you know, he was on the cover of the Rolling Stone magazine.

00:17:40.420 He was sort of young and a little bit famous.

00:17:42.880 and people there was there was sort of excitement around him and trudeau mania like i don't i don't

00:17:49.100 know what the first trudeau mania was but there was definitely that excitement i it was unlike

00:17:54.840 previous politicians the thing i like about canadian politicians is they're usually pretty

00:17:58.200 boring and unassuming and justin trudeau was a little bit different and i think that's what you

00:18:02.820 either love or hate and you know by the time 2019 rolled around he couldn't really do that anymore

00:18:08.740 like you know the blackface thing that came out in the middle of the campaign that that that really 0.81

00:18:13.780 hurt his street creds with the left wing kind of like avant-garde people that just weren't gonna

00:18:18.740 you know he's not really broke he's fake world right and so he really that campaign was like he

00:18:24.260 had to demonize the conservatives and he sort of like set it up like he's the anti-trump he's not

00:18:28.900 trump he's trudeau he's the nice progressive guy and i feel like this time around he doesn't really

00:18:33.220 have that contrast and he's having a really hard time creating a blue man to contrast himself with

00:18:38.100 and that's part of the disease. What do you think? I think also that population has woken up 1.00

00:18:43.540 as opposed to being woken up during COVID and people have suffered a lot. They lost people,

00:18:51.460 they lost their jobs, they lost their businesses and I think aside from the full vaccine

00:18:59.780 issue and his failure to bring the vaccine to Canada in a timely manner, I think people were

00:19:06.500 were really suffering, and he underestimated that, and the people that are protesting,

00:19:13.500 I believe, are not anti-vaxxers, they're people who are just fed up with Trudeau, and fed

00:19:19.700 up with what happened during COVID, and the failure of the government to realize that

00:19:24.500 these people are suffering and to connect with people.

00:19:27.500 Well, it's interesting.

00:19:28.500 Well, we must just sit in a poll for Trudeau, and we're talking about this on our show today,

00:19:33.500 So we asked, can we try to explain the question about whether COVID changed people's executive

00:19:40.500 government?

00:19:41.500 Sure, yeah.

00:19:42.500 So we asked people basically lockdowns made you more concerned about the government's

00:19:46.500 amount of power the government has or lockdowns made you more grateful the government has

00:19:53.500 the power to take actions to look to keep you safe.

00:19:56.500 And 35% of people say lockdowns made you more concerned about government power.

00:20:02.500 35% say they're more grateful for the government's power, but 35%, you know, in our conversation

00:20:09.460 with us, Candice, you know, like 35% in Canada, that's actually a good number and a good start.

00:20:14.540 And interestingly enough, when you think of these poor deaths we've been seeing, especially

00:20:17.480 in Quebec, that number is highest in Quebec.

00:20:20.080 I think it's 47 or 48% are more concerned about the growth of governor power in Quebec,

00:20:27.980 which I think is very interesting and could certainly lead to all sorts of interesting things over there.

00:20:33.660 Well, 35%, I mean, it seems bad because obviously the overwhelming majority of Canadians just feel good about having Big Brother taking care of them.

00:20:41.040 But, you know, 35%, if that's like the upward ability of Maxine Bernier to win,

00:20:47.460 I mean, that would be a total game-changer in Canadian politics if he could manage to kind of recruit all those people.

00:20:52.880 But I think that, Sue, and you're right, that the sort of anger people have,

00:20:56.640 it's not just at being anti-vaccine and this is something that really bothers me the way that

00:21:02.160 Justin Trudeau tries to sort of own science like it's like whatever his opinion is is the science

00:21:07.200 like capital T capital S and he uses it all the time even you know last night at the debate he

00:21:11.620 took a shot at the rebel and he said you know it's because of you that people don't trust the

00:21:15.180 science and it's like I overhear people's conversation even today I was at the hairdresser

00:21:20.560 getting my hair cut and the guy next to me was complaining about people who don't get vaccinated

00:21:24.260 saying that because of them his kids still have to wear masks at school and he's just fed up

00:21:28.980 and he wants like you know he's just ranting this guy right and i'm kind of thinking like

00:21:33.300 just because you're vaccinated doesn't mean that covid goes away right like like just anecdotally

00:21:38.880 i know somebody who's fully vaccinated they had been on a business trip to dallas came back and

00:21:43.000 had covid right there's a big outbreak happening in texas right now so just because you're fully

00:21:47.660 vaccinated doesn't make covid go away but people have this perception and trudeau's the one that's

00:21:52.640 pushing it that as soon as we get to this level where everyone's vaccinated we can just go back

00:21:56.960 to normal it's like is that even true like like where are we where are we headed because people

00:22:02.000 can still get it i mean if we're talking about back to normal justin trudeau's double vaccinated

00:22:06.400 and he still walks around with a mask half the time he's like why are you wearing a mask if you're

00:22:10.000 double vaccinated a couple of them have added as well so sophie rivar trudeau had it so they've

00:22:18.800 they've had two doses of vaccine they've had the virus itself some of them not all of them

00:22:23.440 but but i think you know to your point about trudeau stressing these points so hard i mean

00:22:27.760 that still gives the government the end to say we have the magic silver bullet solution and you just

00:22:33.520 have to come to us and we will solve this for you i remember well over a year ago they said all you

00:22:37.440 got to do is download our contact tracing app and they were really pushing that said this will end

00:22:41.120 the pandemic subsequent things have come along usually provincial issues and i can hammer

00:22:45.600 different premiers on that that all we mean is this that or the other vaccine passports is the

00:22:49.560 newest thing if only we bring in the vaccine passports it's all done uh right away but after

00:22:54.700 doug ford cave and said he'd bring one in in ontario just three hours later the ontario science

00:22:59.260 table i came over the report saying well we still might need to have a fall lockdown so you're like

00:23:04.500 clearly there is no magic silver bullet solution but i know the politicians would like to dangle

00:23:10.040 that idea uh in front of us and to your point about the anecdote of the hairdresser i mean

00:23:14.600 No, I think a lot of people are buying it, sure.

00:23:17.280 Well, if any thinking person would see that the goalposts keep changing.

00:23:21.800 So if you want to travel, if I were to jump on a plane tomorrow,

00:23:25.740 I'm double vaccinated, have been since April.

00:23:29.880 I still have to get a COVID test before I leave, show it, show proof.

00:23:35.220 I'm going to a Broadway show in a couple of weeks.

00:23:37.440 They've sent me a whole thing telling me what I have to do.

00:23:40.020 Wait, you didn't mix vaccines, did you?

00:23:42.000 No.

00:23:42.180 There's a whole story about if you got AstraZeneca and you got something else, you couldn't be a broad way to use.

00:23:46.180 I got, yeah, I got Moderna.

00:23:48.180 But, I mean, there's a whole protocol you still have to follow.

00:23:51.180 So, you know, vaccines are not going to be the panacea.

00:23:55.180 And talk about boosters, if you look in Israel, they're already talking about third and fourth shots.

00:24:01.180 Well, and they're also having a huge spike in cases.

00:24:04.180 Yes, yes.

00:24:05.180 So, yeah, I feel like politicians just sort of, exactly, they said they've removed the

00:24:08.820 bullpen, so they're hanging these carrots for us, to make us believe that if we just

00:24:12.860 jump through this next group, it's like, at some point, people have a breaking point.

00:24:16.920 And I think that's what we're seeing with a lot of the protests.

00:24:19.740 People are just absolutely fed up.

00:24:21.420 They've had enough.

00:24:21.980 And this is an interesting point I raised in my show the other day.

00:24:24.960 So when there were large-scale protests, like three years ago, led by Greta, the teenage

00:24:30.120 environmentalist, you know, all these kids were out there, and they were angry.

00:24:34.460 and that was that was wonderful that you know that was passionate kids looking

00:24:38.960 out for their future and then the same thing with the Black Lives Matter protests

00:24:42.320 you know we had angry people there was a lot of violence a lot of looting the

00:24:46.640 whole movement for defunding the police you know it's a left-wing social movement

00:24:50.120 and it got huge coverage and huge credibility in mainstream culture even

00:24:53.840 this past summer when the reconciliation issue came up and the residential

00:24:58.520 schools and the unmarked graves it's like there's a lot of anger a lot of

00:25:02.600 a lot of vandalism, a lot of violence, and we just heard constant excuses for this behavior.

00:25:07.600 And now we see, you know, large, huge protests like the one in Montreal.

00:25:12.600 I've never really seen something that big.

00:25:14.600 I was surprised when I was looking at it when there was Montreal.

00:25:17.600 You know, you'd assume they wanted to go to Calgary or something,

00:25:20.600 but no, freedom-loving people in Montreal.

00:25:23.600 And the way that the media just either ignores them or completely demonizes them,

00:25:27.600 or the prime minister of the country completely demonizes them,

00:25:29.600 These people are racist, these people are misogynistic, these people are angry, and they have no credibility whatsoever.

00:25:35.600 Their political issues and their anger translates to them being bad people, 0.62

00:25:40.600 whereas on the left, these same people's anger, it's passion and it's social movements.

00:25:47.600 It's the same double standard. It drives me crazy because I've seen legacy media

00:25:55.600 characterized, that is, for example, rabid right-wing, PPC followers, anti-vaxxers, you know, crazies, and everybody follows in long step.

00:26:09.120 Trudeau says it, and everybody else in the media portrays the same way.

00:26:15.960 These are just people who are fed up, as you said. Average people.

00:26:20.200 I've been canvassing the last couple of days in Midtown Toronto, and I'm telling you, it's a very liberal riding.

00:26:27.960 But you go knocking on the doors and people are so angry with Prime Minister Trudeau.

00:26:33.780 It's over and over again.

00:26:35.240 They'd rather vote MVP or Green.

00:26:37.320 I'm hearing that over and over and over again.

00:26:40.100 Interesting.

00:26:40.660 No, it's really interesting to see Trudeau.

00:26:42.700 It's just a total fall from grace.

00:26:44.540 We've got Andrew out in Gatineau, and we're going to go back to him.

00:26:48.100 So Andrew, tell us a little bit about, we're talking to Andrew Lawton, True North contributor, True North senior fellow.

00:26:54.820 Tell us what the scene is over there in Gatineau outside of the federal leaders' debate.

00:27:00.280 Yeah, thanks. It has been a bit interesting.

00:27:03.200 So the noises that you might hear from time to time tend to time with whenever a politician's motorcade or vehicle is coming into the area.

00:27:11.300 and people are not quite pleased with it.

00:27:13.320 These are overwhelmingly People's Party of Canada protesters

00:27:16.740 who were gathered with a very simple message at first,

00:27:19.600 let Max speak.

00:27:20.540 But interestingly enough,

00:27:21.960 and kind of tying into the discussion you were just having,

00:27:24.480 a lot of the frustration that is driving their protests

00:27:28.080 seems to be what we see driving a lot of the protests

00:27:31.220 that have dogged Justin Trudeau

00:27:32.640 for the entirety of the campaign.

00:27:34.420 And that is frustration with vaccine passports,

00:27:36.860 frustration with this sort of permanent suspension of normalcy.

00:27:41.300 And that's, I think, quite interesting.

00:27:43.200 And just to go back to some of the themes that I think are likely to emerge tonight,

00:27:47.520 one thing that I'm going to be listening for is any sort of discussion about that idea of returning to normal.

00:27:54.280 What does normal look like?

00:27:55.400 What are the benchmarks that we are using to get it there?

00:27:58.060 And interestingly enough, last night, all of the talk was really about, when it came to COVID anyway,

00:28:03.780 about how much aid was given, what that aid was being used for.

00:28:07.320 There was some discussion about CERB and CRB and the longevity of some of these programs, the labour shortage that we're seeing all over the country.

00:28:15.340 These were some of the ideas that came up.

00:28:17.240 But none were really getting to the crux of the matter, which is we've got travel restrictions, we've got vaccine passports, we've got further encroachments on what we can do in our individual lives in most provinces in Canada.

00:28:29.720 What is your plan to get us out of that?

00:28:31.580 And that was not something that we heard at all.

00:28:33.620 So that's going to be something I'm listening for in tonight's debate.

00:28:36.380 And not to tip my hand too, too much, but something that I might actually ask about in the scrums after.

00:28:41.780 So that's going to be one of the big things that I'm keeping an ear out for and keeping an eye out for in the debate.

00:28:47.560 And just to give you a sense of where things stand now, as far as the arrival of leaders,

00:28:51.780 we're only waiting on, I think, one or two more.

00:28:53.880 Justin Trudeau just arrived a couple of moments ago, so things should be getting started up.

00:28:58.300 And this is, for those who are just tuning in, the English language leaders debate starting at 9 p.m.

00:29:04.080 But it's going to be certainly an interesting night anyway.

00:29:06.380 That report, Andrew Lawton on the ground in Gatineau, which is just right outside of Ottawa.

00:29:12.900 We're really excited, and thank you for giving us that update.

00:29:16.940 Yeah, you can see Ottawa in the background, so we're close there.

00:29:19.720 There it is. Oh, yeah. Oh, is that Parliament right behind you?

00:29:23.680 Yes, yes.

00:29:24.820 Nice. Awesome. All right, thank you so much, Andrew, right back in the studio here with Sue Ann Levy.

00:29:30.320 I'm Candice Malcolm. We've got Anthony Fearing and Hamish Marshall.

00:29:33.880 Thank you so much for tuning in to the show.

00:29:36.440 And if you like Tremor, if you appreciate the work that we do and our investigative journalism, our independence,

00:29:42.080 I really encourage you to help us out, make a donation.

00:29:44.940 Anything that you can give is really helpful to our operation.

00:29:48.400 We're funded entirely by generous Canadians and their donations.

00:29:52.520 We don't take bailouts from the media.

00:29:55.060 And it's so disheartening as a journalist to see so many media outlets,

00:29:59.100 so many journalists across the country increasingly taking more and more money it's like every year

00:30:04.780 there's another story of another media bailout or another fund that the trudeau government has

00:30:09.260 created to support local journalism or to support certain types of journalism it's like they're

00:30:14.700 creeping their hands into every corner of the industry and it's really hard to trust a journalist

00:30:19.900 that is getting paid for by a bailout from the trudeau government whether it be the state

00:30:24.380 broadcaster in the cbc or more and more newspapers that are going to the government hat in hand

00:30:29.580 to get a bailout and it's interesting just as a journalist to watch the landscape change over the

00:30:34.460 last decade or so um you know the the old guard is really kind of clutching they don't want to let go

00:30:40.620 of their hold over the country over the control that they have or they perceive that they have

00:30:45.340 um in in sort of having the establishment views and and the in the old uh distribution chains

00:30:51.260 and and it's kind of fun to see disruptors out there and different outlets younger people not

00:30:56.460 even getting their news at all from newspapers or or television people going entirely into social

00:31:01.020 media so it's fun to be a part of that and i'm really excited about the work that we do at

00:31:05.500 true dork about lots of programming lots of content investigative journalism written reports

00:31:09.500 every day at tnc.news we do podcasts live shows events like like this here and so we really have

00:31:15.260 a lot going on and if you if you like your journalism and you want to support independent

00:31:18.860 journalism in canada i encourage you to head on over to tnc.news slash donate i want to talk a

00:31:24.300 little bit about the um debate format i touched it a little bit in the intro when i was talking

00:31:29.500 to andrew but basically the idea that the government is now the one that controls how

00:31:34.700 these debates are run in the in the federal government i um our friends over at the rebel

00:31:39.420 had to sue and do an emergency injunction once again this year in order to get into the into

00:31:45.660 the debate and i watched the hearing that they did and it was interesting to hear the government

00:31:49.900 lawyer explain why the debates commission exists because they really think that they have a noble

00:31:55.100 role it's like oh the debates uh there was like public trust was was was waning and we need to

00:32:01.260 re-establish public trust in this debate process of the election and yet i can't imagine um how

00:32:09.180 any of the debates commission that they the work that they do how that would regain the trust of

00:32:14.540 canadians i mean just this election alone we have what three well two two official french

00:32:20.140 debates and then they got the french um profiles of each leader and now we finally have an english

00:32:24.860 debate and it's in quebec right it's like why can't they do a debate in alberta why can't they

00:32:29.580 do a debate in vancouver it's it's really it really doesn't feel like they're representative

00:32:34.220 of the country in any way well the the funny thing actually is that all their arguments about how the

00:32:39.420 The old system of consoria, journalists getting together and creating debates didn't work.

00:32:46.360 They don't apply that to Quebec because there actually are only two government debates.

00:32:51.160 There's the French debate last night, the English debate tonight.

00:32:54.180 But last week, Té Véa, which is the biggest private TV channel in Quebec, had their own debates.

00:33:00.340 And Té Véa just said, we're having a debate.

00:33:02.660 We're inviting these candidates, these four candidates.

00:33:07.120 And if you don't come, you don't care.

00:33:08.720 but we're going to do it anyway.

00:33:10.500 McTavia has such a big audience,

00:33:11.980 the power of the market means that everybody comes.

00:33:14.700 And the difference is, it would be like,

00:33:16.740 there isn't really an equivalent in English Canada

00:33:18.820 that has a big enough market share in order to do that.

00:33:21.100 If you remember in the last election, actually,

00:33:23.140 and you might not even remember this

00:33:24.260 because it didn't really work,

00:33:26.060 is City TV tried to do a national debate

00:33:28.540 in the first week of the campaign.

00:33:30.500 And there was Elizabeth May and Andrew Scheer

00:33:33.420 and Jameet Singh, but Mr. Trudeau did not come.

00:33:38.720 And they did the debate, and because the prime minister

00:33:40.860 wasn't there, the ratings were terrible,

00:33:43.740 and it wasn't a big success for City TV.

00:33:47.400 And actually, McLean's co-hosted it with them.

00:33:50.340 And then on top of that, they sure

00:33:54.000 didn't pay a big price because City TV doesn't have the ratings

00:33:57.720 or the reach across the country to really make them pay

00:34:00.320 a price for skipping that debate.

00:34:02.720 So I find it very odd that we're in this world

00:34:05.800 where they have all these arguments about how this

00:34:07.160 about establishing public trust and everything,

00:34:09.420 except it doesn't apply to Quebec, where they just do it anyway.

00:34:11.500 And the funny thing is, the debate last

00:34:13.220 week, the private debate last week, is the real debate

00:34:15.080 in Quebec. The debate last night, I'm sure when

00:34:17.120 the TV viewing numbers come out, and you said

00:34:19.060 the livestream numbers were bad,

00:34:21.760 in the last election,

00:34:23.400 my recollection is it was five

00:34:25.260 or six more times we would watch the

00:34:27.160 TVI debate than watch the official

00:34:29.100 debate. The debate last night was just

00:34:31.280 sort of a government box-checking exercise.

00:34:34.220 The thing that was interesting

00:34:35.320 happened last week that's so interesting well i i'm kind of curious about how tonight is going to

00:34:40.840 unfold i don't really know if canadians are tuning in i was listening to the radio

00:34:44.760 driving uh down here and you know all they were talking was attendance in the u.s open and everything

00:34:49.320 like that and like you know there's a canadian i think the semi-finals now it's like that's exciting

00:34:55.320 and that's not the same time as the debate you know if i wasn't getting here doing this job i

00:34:59.480 might be at home watching tennis right now yeah you know it's interesting because this idea that

00:35:04.520 the debates commission would solve everything everything would be perfect first of all

00:35:08.280 how is it broken in the first place and i mean you referenced how there were foreign policy

00:35:12.600 debates in the past and i think that the monk center the monk debates put forward their own

00:35:16.360 debate uh back in 2015 it was very successful and now people are complaining about various

00:35:21.080 particulars of the debates commission so clearly this hasn't solved anything and i think there's

00:35:27.400 an old saying that the response to any sort of freedom of the press free speech issue is more

00:35:32.600 free speech, more freedom of the press. So Rebel News or any other outlets is knocking on the door

00:35:38.040 saying, I want to participate. Okay, well, let them participate and let more participate. And then

00:35:42.360 they just, you know, the more voices are the merrier for all of that. That should be the

00:35:48.120 operating principles. And then if you want to have other debates, and to Hamish's point, if a large

00:35:52.280 enough entity comes forward and says, well, we're hosting a debate, we don't care about this debates

00:35:55.640 commission formal quasi-government thing, then it's going to happen. So it's just very odd,

00:36:00.920 this debate commission thing.

00:36:02.580 It is not a good solution

00:36:04.740 to a problem that never existed in the first place.

00:36:06.780 Right, it's a such and such a problem.

00:36:08.680 I think it's one more example of Trudeau's

00:36:10.980 touch or control

00:36:12.780 over speech,

00:36:14.580 free speech, lack thereof.

00:36:17.220 And, you know,

00:36:17.920 to me, it was a fait accompli

00:36:21.040 that rebel would be banned

00:36:22.780 and that they'd have to fight to get in

00:36:24.560 because

00:36:25.560 they are his Achilles' heel.

00:36:28.840 hopefully us as well. And, you know, he didn't want them coming and doing whatever they do.

00:36:37.840 I mean, it was silly because it just made him look bad. And today, you know, he gave

00:36:42.840 Rebel a platform to, you know, grandstand even more. And, you know, we won, we won.

00:36:49.840 But a debates commission, to me, is just evidence of the total control, I think, including bailing out media and giving them handouts that has occurred during Justin Trudeau's reign.

00:37:07.840 Well, I mean, there's a couple interesting things.

00:37:10.840 It's like, okay, they didn't learn anything the first time around by banning...

00:37:13.840 So in 2019, people aren't aware of what we're talking about.

00:37:16.760 Both True North and The Rebel were banned.

00:37:19.580 The Debates Commission said that we were not media companies,

00:37:22.820 and they let us know at the very last minute.

00:37:24.440 That was the worst part.

00:37:25.460 They didn't post any public rules or criteria about what you required to be in order to get accredited.

00:37:31.820 They let us know on Friday afternoon, and the debate was on Monday.

00:37:34.960 So we hired a lawyer and worked all weekend when Ezra heard that we were doing it.

00:37:38.440 He did the same thing, and the judge heard our two cases together

00:37:42.340 just because we're fighting the same thing and at that point it became pretty evident to me that

00:37:47.280 the judge was on the judge was on our side i mean it was like you know why did you why did you ban

00:37:52.760 them why didn't you give your criteria all the stuff that i was wondering it's like okay i'm

00:37:56.180 getting vindicated by this federal judge and i'm so grateful that he ruined our favor you know it

00:38:01.380 happened again and this time the judge issued you know or sorry the debates commission wrote like a

00:38:07.920 20-page report as to why the rebel was being banned because they thought, okay, we'll just

00:38:11.980 take what we didn't do right last time and we'll cover our tracks. I was glad that True

00:38:16.780 North got accepted this time. And the rebel didn't, but the federal judge had the same

00:38:21.940 opinion. I watched that case as well, and she was really skeptical of the idea that the

00:38:25.740 Trudeau government or the debates commission would exclude rebel who has been accredited

00:38:30.520 in all these other situations. I think, you know, they've been accredited at the United

00:38:33.800 nations and all these other places um not letting them in but then letting like the vietnamese state

00:38:39.200 broadcaster who doesn't even have any presence in canada like it's such a joke why would you

00:38:43.900 why would they get a credit one and not the other and why put the energy into it 20 page report is

00:38:49.100 bizarre let's say you like rebel and you like ezra well then you want to let them in let's say

00:38:53.060 you don't like them at all well then let them in because then all that happens is they line up with

00:38:58.920 the mic for the chance to ask a question and then that's just it and it fizzles away if you don't

00:39:03.780 There's a big fight. It's a news story.

00:39:05.480 It becomes a question in and of itself.

00:39:07.200 It draws attention to stuff.

00:39:08.720 I mean, it is just bizarre.

00:39:09.920 It's self-defeating.

00:39:10.480 It became a drama that it didn't need.

00:39:11.840 And then Trudeau getting up and answering the question

00:39:14.460 and going apoplectic, virtually apoplectic about Rebel

00:39:19.560 and how terrible they are. 0.97

00:39:21.280 And I thought, this silly man, this is just lending to the drama. 0.98

00:39:29.060 And it gives them a story. 0.97

00:39:31.260 And don't target any news outlet as prime minister, as president.

00:39:34.680 We were told that was a negative of Trump.

00:39:36.260 I mean, regardless, take Rebel out of the equation.

00:39:38.160 I mean, I feel like it should be beneath the prime minister to just go and start nitpicking

00:39:41.580 and needling like one news outlet.

00:39:44.080 Like, just, you know, relax.

00:39:45.100 It's usually like, I don't know who the reporter was that asked the question, but, you know,

00:39:48.200 it's not her organization.

00:39:49.300 She's just asking the reporter.

00:39:50.580 She's asking a question, and he's going on this whole rant.

00:39:52.960 And this is the guy that, like, you know, I'm old enough to remember when he was railing

00:39:57.060 against a conservative saying that they were divisive and that they were belittling people

00:40:00.460 and that they were, you know, creating wedges in society or, you know, that they were putting

00:40:05.940 people at risk because of their dangerous rhetoric.

00:40:08.660 And then we have the prime minister, like, saying those people, those people who hate

00:40:13.280 science, those people who hate vaccines.

00:40:15.480 It's like, what I see is it's an establishment viewpoint, right?

00:40:19.280 You have the debates commission.

00:40:20.600 It said no to Maxine Bernier, even though, what, he's at 10% in the polls now.

00:40:23.740 I mean, English, I know you're a bit skeptical of some of those polls, but he's pulling a

00:40:27.760 better probably than anime followers one yeah absolutely i mean they had at least for them for

00:40:33.360 the leaders because they put out criteria now you can argue the criteria are very arbitrary but at

00:40:37.840 least they publish criteria um the thing that they did this time that they didn't do last time is

00:40:42.400 again to your point of them sort of learning a lesson or trying to pull the same thing again

00:40:47.040 is they put a timeline that said you must pull over four percent within a certain number of days

00:40:52.000 of the election being called and they kind of came up with this whole uh criteria around it

00:40:56.960 you can argue the criteria was set up to specifically deny um uh the next agreement

00:41:02.640 from being in a debate uh i don't know if you want to make any evidence of that but

00:41:07.520 they did come up with this criteria but again right now it's right now it's clear that the

00:41:13.680 pbc is the fourth more popular uh uh party for maybe the fifth depending they could end up more

00:41:20.320 votes in the bloc if some of these polls are true and the idea that they wouldn't be in the debate

00:41:24.320 is of course fairly ridiculous well and then to me it's like the double right it's like no to

00:41:29.760 regular media no to regular politicians it's like what is that saying about the establishment in 0.55

00:41:34.080 canada you have these fringe parties on the left and i mean the ndp sure maybe they're becoming more

00:41:40.560 more legitimate but they still have pretty fringe ideas that are that would easily be considered

00:41:45.680 for left right you have anime fall in the green party that's not really even a party i don't know

00:41:49.680 know if they're going to win any seats i don't know what they're going to really survive it kind

00:41:53.600 of used to be like a one person part a personality party around elizabeth may and then she finally

00:41:58.440 sat back it was like it could have been the greens moment and instead they have these weird

00:42:03.020 petty internal divides um but but you have this room in canada for left-wing groups far left groups

00:42:09.520 um that are perfectly legitimate you can say the same thing about the media landscape right you

00:42:13.320 have the national observer you have all of these independent far left or left-wing media companies

00:42:19.360 and they're totally welcome and they're totally fine but then you know the rebel you know not

00:42:24.480 everyone's cup of tea and and you certainly there's room to to criticize them but to say like

00:42:29.600 as a country you know we're okay with like everything over here if you go like slightly

00:42:34.320 over this way then you're just you're not allowed and i think that's really troubling and vernier

00:42:39.600 was at one of the debates last year the sky didn't fall like what's the big deal yeah and it's

00:42:44.960 trickle down right to uh writings where there are some really strong ppc candidates and they've been

00:42:51.280 banned from the debates and i think that their perspective should be welcome and you know

00:42:59.200 they're not going to win but uh it let it sets uh feet to the fire to the other candidates

00:43:07.680 and maybe you know get some hard questions answered the communist candidates show up at

00:43:13.600 but all-party, all-handed debates and local rights.

00:43:16.220 It's usually like a Marxist communist.

00:43:17.660 Yeah, it's like a 70-year-old.

00:43:18.640 It's like a communist party person.

00:43:20.900 They get into all their little inflating.

00:43:24.500 And that's the thing.

00:43:26.060 Like, they sort of demonize the entire right.

00:43:29.500 And so what you're left with is, and I'm sorry,

00:43:32.100 I do think that Aaron O'Toole has run a really strong campaign.

00:43:35.860 There hasn't been any major missteps.

00:43:37.760 He seems to foresee whatever liberal bomb is going to get thrown,

00:43:42.020 I mean he's handled it with precision like he's running a great campaign but watching

00:43:46.640 the French debate last night I just I didn't see a lot of difference in in terms of policy

00:43:52.140 in terms of ideas it seemed like all the leaders just sort of agreed on everything there wasn't

00:43:57.460 really a lot and you know at least at least last time around you know you had Andrew Scheer

00:44:01.780 who at least had a slightly different view it was still you know he agreed with liberals

00:44:06.360 and other parties on a lot of things but you know he he he carved out a different path whereas

00:44:12.120 there in Attila I just feel like you know all the parties kind of you know when it comes to climate

00:44:16.920 change we all agree when it comes to COVID we all agree it's like there just isn't really a lot of

00:44:22.840 choice. The thing that I think separates Aaron Attila from the other two parties is the

00:44:28.920 the spending issue, and the economic issues, and one would hope that he would be more accountable

00:44:38.740 and more concerned about our deficit, although he's not going to eliminate it in the very

00:44:43.480 near future, but we can only pray that that happens, but the other two, Trudeau and Jagat

00:44:53.160 seeing it just spin us right into an even bigger black hole i think that's my perspective

00:45:01.720 but this is sort of the dream of the laurentian right is to return to sort of bland uh consensus

00:45:08.520 politics in the 1950s and 60s where you know all the major parties divided by personality

00:45:14.280 and a little bit of policy but not an awful lot and at the stand we have this big mushy center

00:45:18.920 The irony is that they're screaming against the wind because what we've seen with the

00:45:25.640 internet had ended up in the polarization of politics across the Western world.

00:45:30.680 So this ending up in this world where all the parties are more or less the same, it

00:45:36.520 won't last because people will end up in a form of a backlash and they'll do it around

00:45:41.680 other parties.

00:45:42.680 We've seen in this country in the past with the reform party emerging in the late 80s

00:45:46.320 And, you know, and we'll see how many votes the PPC gets on election night, but their message really more than anything else is we're out for the consensus.

00:45:54.920 And, you know, I don't think they're going to end up at 10% like they told the other day, but we're going to get more votes to the Greens.

00:46:03.120 Yeah, I mean, similar to what happened with Fort Nation, you know, when people like Rob

00:46:11.120 Fort, you know, they sought out somebody who wasn't like everybody else and was not, you

00:46:20.120 know, smooth and all that kind of stuff.

00:46:23.120 So people like us, you know, the elitist.

00:46:26.120 Yes.

00:46:27.120 Not elitist.

00:46:28.120 and he did very well at first. So yes, I think people are crying for that and that's why it's so disappointing that the PPC hasn't been involved in any of the debates, hasn't given any chance because, you know, whether they win or they don't, they probably will get more votes than anybody imagines, but they elevate the, I think, the debate onto issues that aren't being discussed, like we've talked about before.

00:46:58.120 those sort of things. Security, safety and security in Canada, that's a big issue. It's a big issue in urban centers.

00:47:05.120 Absolutely, and instead of really tackling the issue, we just get this fake debate about assault rifles and who's for them and who's against them.

00:47:12.120 Folks, we're just going to take a quick one-minute break. Please bear with us. We're having a little bit of technical difficulties.

00:47:17.120 We'll be back in one minute to continue with the analysis for the pre-debate show here.

00:47:28.120 Let's get started.

00:47:58.120 We'll be right back.

00:48:28.120 Thank you.

00:48:58.120 Thank you.

00:49:28.120 Let's go.

00:49:58.120 Oh, that's it.

00:50:28.120 Thank you.

00:50:58.120 We'll be right back.

00:51:28.120 We'll be right back.

00:51:58.120 Thank you.

00:52:28.120 We'll be right back.

00:52:58.120 Thank you.

00:53:28.120 We'll be right back.

00:53:58.120 Thank you.

00:54:28.120 We'll be right back.

00:54:58.120 hi folks thank you so much for bearing with us i know we had some pretty bad audio problems i

00:55:23.320 really apologize you know we're a digital startup we don't have the budget of the cbc

00:55:27.640 we don't get 1.2 million dollars from the taxpayers so sometimes stuff like that happens but i really

00:55:32.680 appreciate you uh staying on we're gonna give a little bit more analysis and have a couple more

00:55:37.560 minutes of conversation uh before we get to the debate i have it on the screen in front of me so

00:55:42.280 i can see that the uh leaders are there in studio they're doing a really cheesy uh photo op right

00:55:48.360 now and as soon as the questions uh start to come we will go over to that but for now let's

00:55:54.600 take advantage of the last few minutes that we have here. So, Hamish, you were talking off air

00:55:58.840 a little bit about the format of the debate and how it's a little weird. It doesn't really lend

00:56:02.920 itself too good back-to-back. So, what people want in these debates is they want to see the people

00:56:08.200 who are likely to be prime minister have an argument about things that actually matter.

00:56:12.440 So, they've done a decent and okay job. They've got five themes that we discussed. Affordability,

00:56:17.800 climate, COVID recovery, leadership and accountability, and reconciliation. So,

00:56:22.440 So two or three of those are not bad choices.

00:56:26.120 But then what happens is there's a question from a voter that goes to one leader, which

00:56:31.580 doesn't really provoke interaction.

00:56:33.280 Then the moderator can ask a question to each leader.

00:56:37.160 It's not clear if it's the same question or if they all have to answer different ones.

00:56:41.140 And then they have this leader-to-leader thing where three of the leaders chosen by law end

00:56:45.840 up debating each other.

00:56:47.440 So you could end up with Anne-Marie Paul and Blanchet debating Trudeau about reconciliation

00:56:55.080 and points that aren't big divergences, which will not make exactly exciting television.

00:57:01.160 If leaders are smart, especially if Trudeau is not in their little group of three, they

00:57:06.440 can take shots at Trudeau when he's not, or any of the other leaders, when he doesn't

00:57:11.620 have the ability to respond.

00:57:13.680 And that can make things interesting if they're strategic and use the format.

00:57:16.680 And then there's a final section

00:57:17.740 where for each of these groups

00:57:18.880 there's an open debate

00:57:19.720 between all five leaders

00:57:20.820 which I suspect will just be

00:57:22.760 everybody rounding on

00:57:23.880 whoever was left out of the...

00:57:25.460 Well, I'm told that we are

00:57:27.140 going to go over to the debate

00:57:28.180 because it looks like

00:57:29.020 it's starting a few minutes early.

00:57:30.540 So, folks, thank you so much

00:57:32.280 for joining our True North analysis

00:57:33.980 and our pre-debate show.

00:57:35.760 We are going to head on over

00:57:37.140 to that live debate.

00:57:38.240 Enjoy it and we will be back

00:57:39.480 in two hours for more analysis

00:57:41.760 with the panel.

00:57:42.720 Thank you so much for tuning in

00:57:44.300 and let's go to the debate.

00:57:46.680 11.

00:58:07.540 I'm with the

00:58:19.440 left to work.

00:58:36.440 .

00:58:37.120 I'll come back in there one minute.

00:59:07.120 We're back in studio, that was a bit of a false alarm there, quick to the trigger here

00:59:25.540 at True North, but we're going to keep the analysis going because they haven't quite

00:59:29.860 started the debate.

00:59:31.400 So, Hameshi, you were explaining the format.

00:59:33.620 I mean, for me, I don't mean to be cruel to Anna May Paul because she seems like a nice lady.

00:59:38.760 And in some ways, last night of the French debate, it was a bit refreshing because she doesn't really talk like a politician.

00:59:43.900 She doesn't have talking points.

00:59:45.320 When she's asked a question, she actually just answers and gives her opinion.

00:59:48.880 If she doesn't know something, she says, I'm not very familiar with that topic.

00:59:51.600 And in that way, it was refreshing.

00:59:53.820 In the way of thinking, you know, we're trying to choose our prime minister as a country here.

00:59:57.980 And, you know, hearing from a person who just has no chance of winning, same with Yves Blanchet.

01:00:02.420 I mean, sure, it made sense for him to be part of the French debate when the whole focus

01:00:05.820 was on Quebec, but for the rest of us and the rest of the country, we can't even vote

01:00:09.540 for him.

01:00:10.020 So it just seems like a major distraction to have these contrasts with the U.S. election

01:00:14.960 where it's just, you know, head-to-head Democrat versus Republican, and you really, they really

01:00:19.300 hold each other to the fire, hold the feet to the fire, they get their blows in, you

01:00:22.820 get a really good look, not just at their ideas, but at their character, because how

01:00:26.720 they handle themselves on the ground.

01:00:28.200 I would love to see a Trudeau versus O'Toole head-to-head.

01:00:31.800 And I wish that we had more of that in this debate.

01:00:35.180 Yeah, that's a really good point.

01:00:36.580 I mean, to your point, you know, you've got Trump versus Clinton or whatever it is.

01:00:40.580 That's what people want to see.

01:00:41.680 That's the main event. 0.99

01:00:42.660 You can imagine if the Green Party candidate or I think Roseanne Barr was running for president as well. 0.92

01:00:46.720 Then if she had been on the stage there and yet to give her equal airtime, it just wouldn't be, you know, the main event. 1.00

01:00:52.660 You want the main fight card up there.

01:00:54.260 I also think the topics are a little frustrating in tonight's debate.

01:00:59.180 I mean, Hamish listed off those main topics.

01:01:01.600 And of the five, three, three and a half of them are also provincial and municipal domain.

01:01:08.020 I mean, they are not they're not following the subsidiarity principle very well.

01:01:11.540 And the one thing that doesn't have its own topic, foreign affairs, that's not a municipal issue.

01:01:17.240 That's not a provincial issue. That is the exclusive domain of the federal government.

01:01:20.860 And if you ask some libertarian purists, you know, what should the federal government do?

01:01:24.500 They probably cancel half the federal departments out there.

01:01:26.920 But, of course, keep foreign affairs, because that is, you know, one of the original duties of any time a federal government has formed in history.

01:01:33.960 So it is frustrating, particularly in the intro, Candice, you were saying earlier in the hour, we've got Afghanistan, we've got China.

01:01:40.720 I mean, these are things that really have to be hashed out.

01:01:43.040 And when you want to talk about housing, I mean, there's, as Sue Ann has covered very well, there are committees at city halls all across this country that are delving into housing and throwing billions at it.

01:01:52.500 Maybe we can talk about foreign affairs just a little bit.

01:01:54.820 Well, and to your point, I mean, that's the whole sort of purpose.

01:01:58.300 And we were talking a little bit earlier, at least I was, about how it feels like the leaders kind of have the same opinion on a lot of things.

01:02:04.480 Maybe if we were having a broader debate, including, you know, Hamish, the poll that you did for Turn North,

01:02:08.980 we found that conservatives and liberals care about very different issues.

01:02:11.960 So if you're a liberal, you care about COVID and climate change.

01:02:14.340 If you're a conservative, you care about debt and the economy and jobs.

01:02:17.600 And so it just seems like the topics are geared more towards liberal voters and the liberal worldview.

01:02:23.840 and then form policy on top of that.

01:02:26.060 I mean, maybe that is where we would see a bit of a contrast

01:02:28.120 between Trudeau and O'Toole,

01:02:29.600 but we won't get to know, unfortunately.

01:02:31.780 And that's the thing.

01:02:33.820 That's where there's a disconnect

01:02:35.140 between the federal leaders or Trudeau's commission

01:02:39.220 and the average guy on the street.

01:02:42.060 So what we care about on the street is the economy

01:02:45.260 and how we're going to come back from COVID.

01:02:47.400 What we care about is safety and security

01:02:49.880 and how we're going to deal with,

01:02:52.520 Not with assault rifles, but with the massive shootings and the absolute enabling in our justice system of the criminals and not giving them tough consequences.

01:03:11.700 What we care about is the drug addiction issues and mental health issues, which is one thing that Erin O'Toole has covered quite well.

01:03:21.340 But this is what we're caring about in cities when we see addicted drug users walking the streets, when we see just the absolute enabling of crime and shootings and, you know, and people, that's what people on the ground are worried about.

01:03:41.540 Yeah, and yet there's very, very sort of little about that. Even the issue of childcare, which is something that a lot of people do. I know both of you fellows over there have young kids, and I have young kids as well. We probably have like 10 kids between us, almost. But anyway, yeah.

01:03:59.300 Do fur kids count?

01:04:00.720 Yeah, we have fur kids.

01:04:01.780 If you prefer fur babies, then yeah, we have.

01:04:04.760 But even that debate issue, it's talked about in such a trite sort of way

01:04:10.920 that it doesn't even really feel like it's addressing parents.

01:04:14.080 It's like, do you believe in government daycare or not?

01:04:17.880 And that's like the confine of the debate.

01:04:20.080 And it just seems like a missed opportunity to your point

01:04:22.580 to connect with voters on the issues that are in their day-to-day life

01:04:26.080 and they really care about, not sort of the abstract,

01:04:28.080 the climate change stuff that people are everybody wants to have a clean environment everyone wants

01:04:32.380 to have a good planet for the future but it's not really top of mind when you're in a pandemic and

01:04:37.400 you don't have a job and you you know you're walking by needles on your way to work or whatever

01:04:41.780 people are you know talking about this at the door uh 50 of the people or more are worried

01:04:48.720 about affordability that's what they're worried about uh the other topic i mean even though it's

01:04:53.440 provincial responsibility look at all the lives lost seniors lives lost and our our lack of

01:04:58.800 respect for seniors for the seniors population we need to have a national strategy the federal

01:05:04.560 government has to start thinking about how they're going to treat seniors from this day forward so

01:05:09.680 at the other end of the scale yeah there's no can talk about that and it was top of mind during

01:05:16.480 COVID and then just fell right off the radar. It seems to happen with so many issues. So,

01:05:22.780 okay, well, it looks like the debate is actually starting this time. The leaders have just been

01:05:26.720 introduced. So we will leave it, leave it there. It's been so great to have this conversation with

01:05:32.760 everyone. Thank you, Anthony Hamish and Sue Ann for coming by in the studio and joining us. It was

01:05:37.360 an interesting conversation and let's, let's go to the debate and see what happens.

01:05:41.500 leadership and accountability climate change reconciliation affordability and covid recovery

01:05:51.500 tonight for undecided journalists rather for undecided voters and journalists maybe the

01:05:58.580 journalists are undecided as well we'll be putting their questions directly to the leaders

01:06:03.720 and you leaders you've agreed to tonight's rules and format so before we begin please

01:06:10.760 answer the questions you're asked, do not interrupt each other. I don't want to cut

01:06:17.160 you off, but I will if I have to, okay? All right, let's get started.

01:06:26.440 You will each get a different question, and you have 45 seconds to answer. You all have a

01:06:32.100 countdown clock. The theme is leadership and accountability. Your speaking order has been

01:06:37.680 determined by draw. And Mr. Singh, you are first. Hi, Mr. Singh. Hi there. Mr. Singh, you are popular

01:06:45.280 and you inspire many Canadians, but your platform is full of big promises. And when it comes to how

01:06:53.860 you'll pay for it all, there's not a lot of details. Given this, how can Canadians know

01:07:00.780 that you are really ready to lead? I really appreciate the question and I want to say

01:07:05.720 Good evening to everyone tuning in.

01:07:08.020 There is a serious question

01:07:09.460 that people are asking themselves in this election.

01:07:11.520 They're wondering who's gonna pay the price

01:07:14.020 of this pandemic and the recovery.

01:07:16.100 And we do have bold plans about how we can invest in people.

01:07:19.560 But we are the only party with a credible plan

01:07:22.680 that will not put the burden on people,

01:07:24.840 that will not cut the help that they need,

01:07:26.980 unlike Mr. Trudeau and Mr. O'Toole,

01:07:29.040 who voted against making the ultra-rich pay their fair share.

01:07:31.820 We believe that billionaires should pay their fair share.

01:07:34.720 We should end the loopholes, end the offshore tax havens

01:07:38.060 that mean billions of dollars are lost,

01:07:40.600 that we are not able to invest in people.

01:07:42.540 We want to put the burden on those that are at the very, very top

01:07:45.380 so we can invest in the solutions that people need.

01:07:47.920 Tackling the climate crisis, investing in housing.

01:07:50.200 All right, thank you, Mr. Singh.

01:07:52.020 Next to you, Mr. Trudeau, because you wanted a new mandate,

01:07:56.420 you plunged the country into an election,

01:07:59.300 even as the pandemic spurs thousands of new cases.

01:08:02.880 But over the last 18 months, opposition parties have largely stood with you, putting the nation above politics.

01:08:12.020 Why aren't you doing the same?

01:08:13.960 How can you justify an election at this time?

01:08:18.720 Thank you, Ms. Curl.

01:08:19.860 I think, first of all, I want to thank Canadians for being here tonight, making an important choice,

01:08:25.040 and also, quite frankly, for everything you've done over the past number of months to help get ourselves and our neighbors through this.

01:08:32.600 Tonight, over the next couple of hours, you're going to hear some very, very different, very strong ideas that are radically different about how we're going to move forward through this pandemic to end it, how we're going to build back better.

01:08:46.140 Those decisions are going to be taken by your government now, in the coming weeks, this fall, not a year from now, not two years from now.

01:08:53.460 Could it not have waited a few months, Mr. Trudeau?

01:08:55.720 I know you want to go harder and faster on vaccinations.

01:08:58.700 I know you want to go harder and faster on climate change, and you get to choose exactly that in this election.

01:09:04.780 All right, that's time. Thank you.

01:09:06.160 Mr. Blanchet, to you.

01:09:08.320 You deny that Quebec has problems with racism, yet you defend legislation such as Bills 96 and 21,

01:09:15.480 which marginalize religious minorities, Anglophones, and Allophones.

01:09:20.980 Quebec is recognized as a distinct society, but for those outside the province,

01:09:26.020 Please help them understand why your party also supports these discriminatory laws.

01:09:32.640 The question seems to imply the answer you want.

01:09:37.220 Those laws are not about discrimination.

01:09:40.220 They are about the values of Quebec. 1.00

01:09:43.160 And yet religious minorities, sir, cannot progress if they wear their religious gear. 1.00

01:09:48.740 Quebec is not recognized as a distinct society. 0.80

01:09:51.520 it's been recognized as a nation on june 16th by the parliament 281 votes said that quebec is a

01:10:03.800 nation and everybody here seems to agree with that no more distinct society which never had

01:10:09.180 any meeting anyway meaning not meeting so again why the discriminatory laws and your support for

01:10:16.200 sir you may repeat as many times as you want that those are discriminatory laws we are saying that

01:10:21.640 those are legitimate laws that apply on quebec territory and there seems to be people around here

01:10:28.280 who will share this point of view which is a game by itself for quebec all right thank you mr mr

01:10:33.960 blanchette miss paul to you for millions of voters this is the climate change election but at this

01:10:42.760 you've been bogged down in internal strife.

01:10:45.800 If your own party doesn't fully support you,

01:10:49.100 how can Canadians trust you to lead

01:10:52.440 through one of the most defining issues of our times?

01:10:57.100 It's an excellent question, and it's an honor to be here

01:11:00.140 tonight on the unceded territories of the Algonquin peoples.

01:11:05.920 It has been a very difficult period,

01:11:07.720 and do I wish that our party had been further ahead,

01:11:10.460 particularly at this moment? Absolutely.

01:11:13.760 Do I believe that we have wonderful candidates

01:11:16.060 running all over the country

01:11:17.760 that you should consider voting for? Absolutely.

01:11:21.400 Being who I am and in this position

01:11:23.700 has been incredibly hard.

01:11:25.800 Being here tonight was not an obvious thing.

01:11:28.420 I've had to crawl over a lot of broken glass to get here.

01:11:32.120 I'm proud to be here.

01:11:33.420 I'm proud to be the first of my kind,

01:11:35.160 and because I am the first of my kind,

01:11:37.520 I know that I won't be the last.

01:11:39.620 Thank you, Ms. Paul, and to you, Mr. O'Toole.

01:12:05.620 party. And we have a plan to get the country back on its feet after a difficult 18 months in this

01:12:11.060 crisis. I'm a pro-choice ally to the LGBTQ community. That comes from my service in the

01:12:17.860 military, where I served alongside people from all backgrounds, all orientations, putting the

01:12:22.500 country first. And our platform, including a detailed plan on climate change, is about making

01:12:28.620 sure we secure the future, jobs, accountability, national leadership on mental health. So is it

01:12:33.880 Are you, sir, or your caucus that's driving the bus?

01:12:36.660 I am driving the bus to make sure we get this country back on track,

01:12:40.460 and I'm here to defend the rights of all Canadians,

01:12:43.500 women, members of the LGBTQ community, Indigenous Canadians.

01:12:47.420 I want to make sure we all secure a future together.

01:12:50.660 Thank you, Mr. O'Toole.

01:12:52.220 All right, leaders, thank you.

01:12:53.640 It is now time for our first face-to-face debate.

01:12:56.660 Mr. Trudeau, Ms. Paul, you're up.

01:12:58.740 Starting with Mr. Trudeau, based on this question. 1.00

01:13:02.140 You call yourself a feminist. 0.99

01:13:03.880 But on your watch, sexual misconduct in Canada's armed forces continues to run rampant.

01:13:10.480 Tell me, why are you allowing these unacceptable conditions to continue?

01:13:15.200 I think we recognize that there are systems and institutions that need to change across the country.

01:13:19.900 And that's why, from the very beginning, we stepped up with policies, new policies, stronger policies and processes to support every survivor, everyone who comes forward.

01:13:29.480 because nobody deserves to work in a workplace

01:13:32.880 where they are being discriminated against,

01:13:35.400 where they are being harassed or hassled.

01:13:39.220 We have been unequivocal about that.

01:13:40.820 My leadership has been unequivocal about that.

01:13:43.060 Yes, these problems continue in workplaces across the country,

01:13:46.200 particularly in the military.

01:13:48.320 That's unacceptable,

01:13:49.540 which is why we've taken even stronger measures.

01:13:52.580 It's unsatisfactory to have to say,

01:13:54.920 we're relying on process in this.

01:13:57.380 We want to just be able to have easy answers.

01:13:59.480 Ms. Paul, what's your response to that?

01:14:01.380 But this is not an issue with easy answers.

01:14:02.320 You have to fall back on process.

01:14:04.640 I have said before, and I'll say again tonight,

01:14:07.160 that I do not believe that Mr. Trudeau is a real feminist.

01:14:10.460 A feminist doesn't continue to push strong women out of his party

01:14:14.980 when they are just seeking to serve.

01:14:18.080 And I will say their names tonight and thank them.

01:14:21.040 Thank you, Jane Philpott.

01:14:22.760 Thank you, Jody Wilson-Raybould.

01:14:25.220 Thank you, Selena Cesar Chavinez.

01:14:27.180 and I'm here tonight thanks to the work that you have done.

01:14:30.620 I believe that if there were more women on this platform tonight

01:14:34.000 and in previous years, that we, in fact, 1.00

01:14:36.400 would have better laws in our military.

01:14:40.260 We would have childcare at this point.

01:14:43.200 We would have many of the things that we need.

01:14:45.380 I am the only woman other than Elizabeth May

01:14:48.240 to be on this platform in the last 18 years.

01:14:51.520 The Liberal Party has never had a woman leading.

01:14:54.020 I think it's time for the party to examine its priority.

01:14:56.580 Paul, you'll perhaps understand that I won't take lessons on caucus management from you.

01:15:00.520 I think what I will keep focused on is making sure that our first woman finance minister

01:15:07.300 has moved forward on child care.

01:15:10.260 Mr. Trudeau, I'm sorry, that's time.

01:15:12.240 We have to move on.

01:15:13.580 Mr. Blanchett, Mr. O'Toole, and Mr. Singh, this next topic is for you to debate.

01:15:19.400 Canada's transition to a green economy depends on pipelines.

01:15:23.320 At a time when Ontario and Quebec face uncertain energy supply over Line 5, this country cannot extract nor distribute oil domestically.

01:15:35.980 Our theme is leadership. Tell me, which one of you is best to lead on these complex issues?

01:15:42.680 Mr. Blanchet, per the draw, you begin.

01:15:45.180 I'm not very much interested in leading Canada.

01:15:47.840 However, I am very much interested in making sure that Quebec is entitled to its own vision for the future.

01:15:56.660 You know, in Quebec, we do not have energy issues that much because we are lucky.

01:16:01.060 We are lucky.

01:16:01.620 It's a piece of luck that we can produce green energy in a large amount.

01:16:06.940 But the whole planet cannot afford this idea, this very Canadian idea, this very conservative idea.

01:16:12.840 And as far as I know, this very liberal idea that we have to produce more oil, export more oil, believing that the money from it will reduce gas emission, which won't happen.

01:16:23.780 All Canadian families deserve an economic recovery, including families in Western Canada that feel left out after six years of Mr. Trudeau.

01:16:32.340 When it comes to leadership, our natural resources sector is a leader in environmental, social governance.

01:16:38.180 Any time Canadian resources are removed from the global supply chain, you know who fills that gap?

01:16:44.100 Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Russia.

01:16:46.600 All of these organizations and companies are getting their emissions down.

01:16:50.820 Let's get emissions down and Canadian resources to market so that we can have jobs opportunity and fight climate change.

01:16:57.560 When it comes to leadership on fighting this essential crisis, one of the biggest crises we're up against,

01:17:05.100 we've got a difficult choice for Canadians.

01:17:07.120 You've got on one side someone who doesn't believe there's a crisis, and then on the other, you've got Mr. Trudeau who doesn't act like there's a crisis.

01:17:14.100 And what it's going to take is real leadership, because the solutions are there.

01:17:17.580 We can invest in green energy, clean energy.

01:17:20.200 We can invest in renewable energy.

01:17:21.460 Mr. Singh, a real leader doesn't give up on tens of thousands of workers across the country.

01:17:24.120 We'll never give up on workers.

01:17:25.100 We're workers that are working hard for their families, so we can get our resources to our party.

01:17:29.540 Okay, one at a time, gentlemen.

01:17:31.480 Mr. Trudeau, then back to you, Mr. Singh.

01:17:32.940 I want to see Canadians get back to work in all sectors and in all regions.

01:17:37.620 And I'm proud of what we produce in our country,

01:17:39.920 whether it's our resources or the resources in the heads of our young people.

01:17:43.240 We need to get emissions down and get our energy to market.

01:17:47.600 These workers need a plan that's going to create jobs for the future.

01:17:50.400 And that's the responsibility of government.

01:17:51.940 We've seen six years of Mr. Trudeau, and workers can't afford another four years.

01:17:55.960 What we need to do is invest in a diversified economy, clean energy.

01:18:00.340 We need to electrify transportation.

01:18:01.820 We need to invest in retrofitting homes and buildings.

01:18:04.620 We need to create good jobs to work and plan now.

01:18:07.180 But we need an economic recovery in all sectors that have failed workers.

01:18:11.700 Last word to you, Mr. Blanchett.

01:18:13.620 Last word to you, sir.

01:18:14.640 Leadership is not only saying the words.

01:18:17.020 It's proposing solutions, admitting a problem which they're not doing.

01:18:22.360 All right.

01:18:22.780 Thank you.

01:18:23.600 My next question is for all of you.

01:18:26.840 We've had some encouraging news out of Kabul overnight with the escape of 43 Canadians.

01:18:33.380 That said, thousands of people who helped Canada during Canada's mission in Afghanistan

01:18:40.040 have been left behind in their hour of need, and it is unknown if we will ever get them all out.

01:18:47.280 To each of you, what would you have done differently?

01:18:50.880 Mr. O'Toole, per the draw you began.

01:18:53.480 Canada should never leave behind people that are at risk because they helped us.

01:18:57.860 When Afghanistan was falling, there were 1,200 Canadians and hundreds more translators and others waiting for help from Canada.

01:19:04.840 What did Mr. Trudeau do?

01:19:06.700 You called an election, sir.

01:19:08.120 You put your own political interests ahead of the well-being of thousands of people.

01:19:12.960 Leadership is about putting others first, not yourself.

01:19:17.340 Mr. Trudeau, you should not have called this election.

01:19:19.380 You should have gotten the job done in Afghanistan.

01:19:21.260 that. Mr. O'Toole, as of the beginning... Hold on. This is not open debate, leaders. This is

01:19:25.760 a situation where we're asking a question to each of you. No problem, Mr. Trudeau. I'm trying to

01:19:32.100 keep track of myself. I would like him, Ms. Curl, because he called an election in the fourth wave

01:19:36.060 of a pandemic with fires in British Columbia and with unfinished business in Afghanistan,

01:19:40.940 Mr. Trudeau. All right. Thank you, Mr. O'Toole. I'm going to give the opportunity next per the

01:19:45.060 draw to Mr. Singh. You guys will have tons of time to debate, so hang tight. Mr. Singh.

01:19:49.480 sadly what's happened in in afghanistan is a tragedy that was something we knew about we

01:19:57.340 knew about the withdrawal date we knew from president biden what that date would be and

01:20:01.780 and sadly i agree with mr otul on this one point that it was a bad decision to call an election

01:20:07.600 while this crisis was going on particularly because we've got allies on the ground that

01:20:12.100 put their lives at risk to support our canadian forces who are now looking at peril for their

01:20:17.840 lives and may never get out of afghanistan we know the impact on women and girls in afghanistan

01:20:22.660 it's heartbreaking and it could have been avoided veterans had told mr trudeau and his government

01:20:28.020 for a long time that the current approach was not working those calls were not heated and as a result

01:20:33.980 we're in this really horrible situation thank you thank you mr singh mr blanchett first good news

01:20:39.260 i seem to understand from what i read a few hours ago that kabul airport is now being open for some

01:20:45.240 to get out of the country, which is very good news.

01:20:48.240 This should have been worked a long, long time ago.

01:20:51.240 I agree with Mr. O'Toole that Mr. O'Toole

01:20:54.040 should have put those people's interests before his own.

01:20:57.180 However, the problem is that Canada has failed many times

01:21:00.680 to create some strong partnerships with other countries

01:21:04.300 in order to be stronger facing a situation like Afghanistan now.

01:21:09.240 Because by itself, we must admit, Canada is not a world power.

01:21:14.240 Thank you, Mr. Blanchet. Mr. Trudeau, I invite you to respond now.

01:21:18.200 Thank you, Ms. Curl. It's unfortunate to hear the members, the leaders on this stage talking down the incredible work that our Canadian Armed Forces, that our diplomats, that our consular officials did from the beginning of the summer to ensure that as of the very beginning of August, well before this election, we were getting flights out of Afghanistan.

01:21:39.520 We got 3,700 people out of Afghanistan, and over the past weeks, we've been working with the Qataris, for example, on exactly that good news that we've seen of more people, more Canadians getting out of Afghanistan.

01:21:52.500 We work closely with our allies because we know Canadians sacrificed in Afghanistan for a better future.

01:21:58.400 We need to stand by the people who helped us, who helped themselves, and we will with even more people coming to Canada in the coming months.

01:22:06.180 All right, Mr. Trudeau, Ms. Paul.

01:22:08.420 As a former diplomat and with a husband who provided advice on the peace negotiations in Afghanistan,

01:22:16.940 we were hearing the stories all the time in the months leading up that this was foreseeable.

01:22:22.760 And so it seems like we got better information on our smartphones than Mr. Trudeau got from our entire intelligence service based on what he's saying.

01:22:29.560 the thing is that when you people count on you when you make a promise to them then you do it

01:22:36.840 so that people can count on canada's word when someone is your partner you go with them you go

01:22:41.700 for them or you don't amount to much and so leaving behind people in afghanistan rocking up

01:22:47.760 to rito hall and calling an election under these circumstances was not the right thing to do

01:22:52.100 and to borrow a line from mr singh from 2019 mr chadokha just say hey man i messed up all right

01:22:57.500 Ms. Paul, thank you very much. Thank you all. And now it is our time for a first attempt at open

01:23:04.040 debate. Jumping off of this question, Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor have been in Chinese

01:23:11.180 prisons for 1,004 days. The next prime minister has key decisions to make about our already tense

01:23:20.480 relationship with China, such as telecommunications security and foreign investment.

01:23:25.240 Some say this all comes down to a trade-off between Canada's economic growth and recognition of human rights

01:23:32.040 I'd like to know where you all stand. I'm sure you want to exchange on that. Mr. Singh, for the draw you begin

01:23:37.560 Leaders, you may jump in

01:23:38.920 Thank you very much

01:23:40.500 We know that we can't imagine what it is for Mr. Spavor and Mr. Kovrig to be going through

01:23:46.240 A thousand plus days in a prison without access to human rights

01:23:51.120 I can't imagine what their friends and their families are going through right now

01:23:54.720 All I know is we have to do everything possible to secure the release of these two Canadians.

01:23:59.580 We need to work with our allies, apply pressure, and make sure that we return these Canadians home.

01:24:04.380 That's what we've got to do. 1.00

01:24:05.740 And that's exactly what we've been doing.

01:24:07.660 Over the past three years, we have worked with international allies to put pressure on China in every single one of their meetings.

01:24:14.200 We've worked closely with the United States. 0.56

01:24:16.400 We at the G7 a few weeks ago worked with the international community to make sure we're moving forward on challenging China where necessary and human rights, competing with them economically where we need to and holding them to account on the rule of law as a global community.

01:24:32.580 And Canada's voice has been very strong on that.

01:24:35.940 Canada's voice has been absent, Mr. Trudeau.

01:24:38.400 We have not worked with our allies on Huawei.

01:24:41.180 We have not stood up for the 300,000 Canadians in Hong Kong.

01:24:45.260 We've not fought for the two Michaels and put pressure on the communist regime.

01:24:50.120 We have not stood up for human rights.

01:24:52.080 Sir, you did not show up for a vote declaring a genocide towards the Uyghur people.

01:24:56.520 You didn't show up.

01:24:58.060 Canada is the country that was leading the fight against apartheid.

01:25:01.760 We created the UN Human Rights Code.

01:25:05.020 We should be leaders for our values, sir. 0.97

01:25:08.060 And you've let the Michaels down, and we have to get serious with China. 0.92

01:25:11.600 If you want to get the Michaels home, you do not simply lob tomatoes across the Pacific. 0.66

01:25:18.420 That is what Mr. Harper tried for a number of years and didn't get anywhere.

01:25:21.860 You need to engage in a sophisticated way with our allies every step of the way.

01:25:26.660 You have to take the same position on Huawei.

01:25:28.420 And that's exactly what we have done every step of the time.

01:25:31.720 On cyber security, Mr. Trudeau, we are out of step and our allies are wondering where Canada's gone.

01:25:38.440 You started as Prime Minister saying you admired China.

01:25:40.960 I'm coming to you, Ms. Paul, just a second.

01:25:44.740 I want to get to Mr. Singh and then to you, Ms. Paul.

01:25:47.220 I appreciate it. Thank you very much for the opportunity.

01:25:49.400 I want to also talk, we're talking about leadership and accountability.

01:25:52.000 And in this pandemic, one of the moments, I think, of leadership that has been a failure

01:25:55.160 is the fact that when we talk about leadership, it means finding solutions.

01:25:59.540 And in our long-term care homes here in Canada, we saw the worst conditions in the for-profit.

01:26:04.440 We're going to have time to chat with that later.

01:26:06.840 The topic is China, human rights and economic growth.

01:26:09.800 To you, Ms. Paul.

01:26:10.960 Yes, and this is an area where, certainly,

01:26:13.900 lines are being redrawn all across the world.

01:26:16.740 And the main thing that Canada is going to have going forward

01:26:20.640 in terms of currency is its word.

01:26:23.640 When we make a promise, we have to keep those promises.

01:26:27.080 That's how, when we need help, we get it.

01:26:29.580 You know, my mom grew up on a farm in a small community,

01:26:32.520 and she learned very young and taught us

01:26:34.280 that you have to give your word to your neighbors,

01:26:36.560 and they have to be able to count on it

01:26:38.360 so that when you need help, they're there for you.

01:26:40.960 And so when we don't show up, when we're asked for vaccines from COVAX and then we take vaccines from COVAX, 0.84

01:26:47.580 when the Uyghur ask us for help to declare a genocide and we don't do that,

01:26:52.240 when we don't show up on the climate by setting targets that are ambitious but at the same time in line with our international partners and do our fair share, 0.97

01:27:01.860 then our word doesn't count for much and then it makes it very hard for us to help people like the Michaels when they need us the most.

01:27:07.980 Mr. Blanchett, did you want to get in on this?

01:27:09.420 Stirring tomatoes might not be the solution,

01:27:12.100 but I would submit humbly that doing nothing

01:27:14.360 might not be the solution either.

01:27:16.780 The Minister Trudeau's record on human rights is not perfect.

01:27:20.240 We might name the two Michaels.

01:27:21.940 We might name Weigur in Xinjiang. 0.69

01:27:24.260 We might name Taiwan, Hong Kong.

01:27:26.120 We might name Catalonia and Mr. Puigdemont.

01:27:28.800 We might name the worst of all.

01:27:30.980 Mr. Blanchett.

01:27:31.320 Raif Badawi being still held in Saudi Arabia

01:27:34.560 because Canada wants to sell weapons and military supplies to Saudi Arabia.

01:27:39.720 Mr. Blanchet.

01:27:40.980 Mr. Blanchet.

01:27:42.160 Okay, okay, gentlemen, one at a time.

01:27:45.920 The parliament voted unanimously to give citizenship to Haif Badawi.

01:27:50.300 Nothing has been done afterward.

01:27:52.360 All right.

01:27:53.500 Mr. O'Toole, Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Singh.

01:27:57.140 Mr. Blanchet is correct.

01:27:59.080 Canada is needed back on the world stage.

01:28:00.980 We may be smaller than China with respect to population and economy, but we are a giant when it comes to our commitments to human rights, to dignity, and to the rule of law.

01:28:09.800 And we have to start working with our allies to take a more serious approach for human rights, standing up for our workers on fair trade, and making sure that our voice is a principled one on the world stage again.

01:28:20.540 The problem with Mr. O'Toole and his principles is he says all the right-sounding things,

01:28:25.940 and he's working on reassuring everyone that he's right there as a strong leader.

01:28:29.180 But he can't convince his candidates to get vaccinated.

01:28:32.440 He can't convince his MPs to fight.

01:28:35.140 Let's keep the theme.

01:28:36.240 Mr. Singh, you wanted to get in.

01:28:37.600 I'm giving the last word to Mr. Singh.

01:28:41.040 Mr. Trudeau, please.

01:28:42.380 To you, Mr. Singh.

01:28:43.140 Leadership means standing up.

01:28:44.500 It means standing up for the Uyghur in China.

01:28:46.160 It means standing up to defend people around the world.

01:28:48.640 and also means showing leadership

01:28:50.040 when it comes to fighting the climate crisis,

01:28:51.920 we've got the worst record under Mr. Trudeau in the G7.

01:28:54.860 So that's not leadership, certainly not.

01:28:56.680 All right, thank you very much.

01:28:57.880 Thank you, leaders.

01:28:58.780 We are now moving on to our next theme,

01:29:01.180 which is climate change.

01:29:07.320 All right, this time we're starting with a question

01:29:09.920 from Trevor McMullen.

01:29:11.500 He is a high school teacher in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia.

01:29:14.560 He's standing by.

01:29:16.160 Trevor, what's your question?

01:29:18.640 hey good evening as leader what immediate actions would you take to make green technology more

01:29:26.520 accessible and affordable so that everyday canadians don't have to bear the financial

01:29:30.500 burden of being environmentally ethical all right thank you trevor leaders you've heard trevor's

01:29:37.420 question mr miss paul i apologize miss paul you're going first thank you so much for that

01:29:43.400 question and it you know trevor that's exactly where your head should be at that's where all

01:29:47.400 of our heads should be at.

01:29:48.740 How can we use this opportunity to seize the moment

01:29:53.340 to create a green economy?

01:29:55.900 How can we incentivize every single person in Canada,

01:29:58.880 every company and every enterprise

01:30:00.740 to adopt green technologies?

01:30:03.220 How can we become a global leader?

01:30:05.360 And so absolutely, if you look at our platform,

01:30:07.580 you will see that we propose incentives

01:30:09.280 all the way from buying electric cars new and used

01:30:12.980 to retrofitting homes, you know,

01:30:16.340 to all of these items that will help make life easier for you

01:30:19.620 and help for you to do your part.

01:30:21.240 But this is a national and international issue.

01:30:24.520 We need national leadership on it,

01:30:26.700 and we need it across party lines.

01:30:28.380 Thank you, Ms. Paul.

01:30:29.180 Mr. Singh.

01:30:30.000 Thank you.

01:30:30.520 Thank you, Trevor.

01:30:31.320 I really appreciate the question.

01:30:32.820 And I'm sure you speak to a lot of young people as a teacher

01:30:34.840 and are seeing the fear in their eyes,

01:30:37.880 the worry and the desperation that young people have

01:30:39.720 because they don't know what type of future they're going to inherit.

01:30:42.740 And they're worried about the impacts of the climate crisis

01:30:45.160 because it's hurting us now

01:30:46.740 and it's only going to get worse

01:30:48.160 if we don't do anything about it.

01:30:49.680 And to invest in that future,

01:30:51.300 we need to make choices.

01:30:52.580 And right now, we look at the choices

01:30:54.040 Mr. Trudeau has made over the past six years.

01:30:56.400 He has promised to end fossil fuel subsidies,

01:30:59.240 but instead of ending them,

01:31:00.560 he has increased them to $900 million per year.

01:31:03.940 That is money we could spend

01:31:05.820 on investing in clean technology,

01:31:08.640 in making it easier for people

01:31:10.260 to access that technology

01:31:11.660 and to do our part to fight the climate crisis.

01:31:14.940 So it's a matter of choices.

01:31:16.040 We can't afford another four years of Mr. Trudeau's choices.

01:31:18.340 Thank you, Mr. Singh.

01:31:19.560 To you, Mr. O'Toole.

01:31:21.280 Thank you for the question, Trevor. 0.86

01:31:23.160 I was raised by two strong women who were teachers,

01:31:25.720 and they told me to be straight up.

01:31:27.540 This is an area where the Conservatives,

01:31:29.340 we had to win back some trust.

01:31:30.780 We hadn't met the expectations of Canadians on climate change.

01:31:34.240 It's an important issue for me as a father of a high schooler,

01:31:37.760 and we talk about it all the time.

01:31:39.260 That's why in April, long before the election,

01:31:41.600 I put out a substantial package, pricing carbon to meet our Paris targets.

01:31:47.460 And what's interesting, our low-carbon savings account will allow people to actually make green choices to lower their carbon footprint.

01:31:54.960 This approach is innovative because it would allow all Canadians to know what their carbon footprint is and make those innovative investments to lower it.

01:32:02.500 I think we all have a role to play, and our plan is detailed, and we'll deliver on it.

01:32:07.280 Mr. Blanchet.

01:32:08.460 Thank you to be with us, sir.

01:32:09.680 I hope you appreciate a little bit blunt answers first you cap you put a ceiling on any production

01:32:17.480 of oil and gas you take all the money that the federal government is placing into that industry

01:32:23.720 even more by the liberals than the conservatives before and you put that into green energy and you

01:32:29.980 take the money for Trans Mountain and you give it to Alberta for Alberta to initiate its own

01:32:35.320 transition toward a greener economy this is the way to do things because if we don't do that and

01:32:41.560 keep dreaming about reducing gas emission while increasing production we will never get there

01:32:48.860 thank you mr blanchett mr trudeau thank you trevor for your question from one teacher to another i

01:32:55.940 know that you need to ground your decisions and what you share with your students in science and

01:33:01.580 all these leaders on here have various claims about what their climate change plan is going to

01:33:06.620 do. Unfortunately, if you look at what the experts and the climate scientists and the economists have

01:33:11.520 said, we are the ones with the strongest plan to fight climate change. And how to answer your

01:33:16.660 question specifically, how to make it more affordable for Canadians? Well, the first thing

01:33:20.140 we did on that was bring in a national price on pollution that incentivizes businesses to go

01:33:25.960 cleaner at the same time as it puts more money in families' pockets. We are going to put a cap on

01:33:31.860 oil sands and oil and gas emissions and decline it until net zero and create those opportunities

01:33:37.300 and investments that are going to make it more affordable for you and your students for many

01:33:41.700 years to come. Thank you, Mr. Trudeau. Thank you, Trevor. Have a good evening. I'm turning it back

01:33:47.600 to the leaders. It is time for more debate. The draw has Mr. Trudeau and Mr. O'Toole facing off.

01:33:53.980 Your topic is climate change. Even today, one in four Canadians don't believe that climate change

01:34:01.960 is caused by human activity. How can we achieve real progress when so many people are still

01:34:10.160 debating the fundamentals? Mr. O'Toole, you begin. Climate change is a real threat, not only to Canada

01:34:17.000 and to the world. That's why we have to take a serious plan to tackle it. That's why, as I said,

01:34:21.820 we put our plan out in April because we had to restore some trust on this issue to make sure we

01:34:27.380 can show Canadians we can get emissions down and get the economy working again. That is key. We

01:34:33.720 have a plan to meet our Paris targets but minimize the impact on jobs and investment. We're also

01:34:39.700 going to make major investments in electric vehicles, in the hydrogen economy, small modular

01:34:45.860 reactors. There is so much we can do to get our emissions down but grow a strong economy because

01:34:50.960 Because without a strong economy, we can't tackle climate change, we can't tackle the

01:34:55.160 issues of today.

01:34:56.160 But the reality that Mr. O'Toole has never understood is you can't have a strong economy

01:35:00.880 unless you tackle climate change.

01:35:03.120 And you ask about how we're going to convince the quarter of Canadians who still don't think

01:35:06.720 climate change is real, well, Mr. O'Toole can't even convince his party that climate

01:35:11.000 change is real, because they voted against that.

01:35:12.960 And that's perhaps why his plan is so weak.

01:35:15.560 His plan is to go back to the Harper targets, to the Harper approach on fighting climate

01:35:19.960 which doesn't work. His costed platform, which he just put out last night, cuts two billion dollars

01:35:26.020 from climate investments and from things. And for our friends in B.C., Mr. O'Toole has proposed to

01:35:33.280 restore the northern gateway pipeline to the Great Bear Forest and the tanker. Mr. O'Toole always

01:35:42.660 forgets one fact. He has never made a target for climate change. He has great ambition. That's part

01:35:48.800 of the reason we're in an election in a pandemic is his ambition he doesn't have achievement well

01:35:53.800 he never meets his target the target is in 2030 so it's actually quite difficult to meet our

01:35:58.700 countries nine years away except for the fact that right now we are on track gentlemen we have to

01:36:04.080 wrap this segment all right we are moving on we are moving on leaders next up is mr singh

01:36:11.300 mr blanchette and ms paul i'd like each of you to describe how you'll implement a national approach

01:36:17.720 that best recognizes the significant regional differences involved in fighting climate change,

01:36:24.020 you begin, Mr. Singh. You may jump in one at a time, please.

01:36:28.520 Of course.

01:36:29.280 Well, here's the thing. We just heard Mr. O'Toole and Mr. Trudeau argue about who's worse.

01:36:34.840 And honestly, it's a tough question to answer.

01:36:37.400 Let me tell you, you're not stuck with these two. Better is possible.

01:36:41.260 We can invest in a clean economy. We can end fossil fuel subsidies.

01:36:46.000 We can make sure we're creating clean transportation, and we can invest in provinces and territories to make sure they have the resources necessary to fight the climate crisis.

01:36:55.500 I'm hopeful. I'm optimistic. I'm going to be a dad soon, and I want to make sure my child grows up into a future that has the same opportunities that I had, that has clean air, clean water, a clean place to live.

01:37:07.660 I want to make sure that that's different.

01:37:08.780 As far as I understand it, it is not a national or even less original issue.

01:37:14.560 it is a planetary issue and it has to be tackled by everybody at once but i would be glad to give

01:37:23.120 some of my precious time to mr otul because a week ago a little more than that he said in french

01:37:29.120 that he did not want anymore to have a pipeline to go through quebec that was quite a statement

01:37:35.440 he said that in french no more pipeline through quebec i want to hear that in english tonight

01:37:40.640 Please, please.

01:37:42.660 Hold on, hold on.

01:37:44.800 This segment is quite frankly.

01:37:49.320 We're not going to let that happen.

01:37:50.280 This on the climate, this sort of approach is going to get us nowhere, and I mean but nowhere.

01:37:57.180 It is, and the question was an excellent one.

01:37:59.520 This is a global issue.

01:38:01.960 This is a national issue.

01:38:03.160 This is a nonpartisan issue, and we have got to be able to come together across party lines.

01:38:08.300 I wanted I said that I was available for a debate just on the climate because it's that important but we and we've invited many times all of the parties to join us in a joint cabinet a cross party cabinet to deal with this the way that we dealt with the pandemic together people were so inspired to see these leaders come together in the early days of the pandemic we have got to bring that same approach here let's come together because that's what's needed.

01:38:34.060 Thank you very much. I absolutely agree. We do need to come together. I can lay out what we

01:38:38.240 shouldn't do and what we need to do. What we shouldn't do is what Mr. Trudeau did,

01:38:42.060 set targets and missed them. We shouldn't promise to end fossil fuel subsidies and then increase

01:38:46.500 them. We shouldn't put a price on pollution and then exempt the biggest polluters. What we need

01:38:50.800 to do is end those fossil fuel subsidies, invest in provinces and territories with infrastructure

01:38:56.920 that's going to help us fight the climate crisis. Hold on, Mr. Singh. With the greatest of respect

01:39:03.040 With the greatest of respect to Mr. Singh,

01:39:05.140 we have been making this invitation for years,

01:39:08.720 and it has never been accepted by the NDP or any other party.

01:39:12.220 So it's great to hear that they agree.

01:39:14.060 We have to wrap this section now, leaders.

01:39:16.080 It is time for me, with great pleasure,

01:39:18.180 to welcome Mercedes Stevenson of Global News.

01:39:21.260 She is joining us now, and she's going to be asking

01:39:23.720 each of you a direct question on climate change.

01:39:27.100 This round starts with Mr. Trudeau. Hi, Mercedes.

01:39:29.660 Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

01:39:31.640 much for having me. Hello, candidates. It's a pleasure to have the opportunity to ask you

01:39:35.860 about a question that is on a lot of Canadians' minds, the question of climate change.

01:39:39.840 Mr. Trudeau, starting with you. On your watch, Canada's greenhouse gas emissions have gone up

01:39:45.180 every year since 2016, giving this country the worst emissions reduction record in the G7.

01:39:52.040 According to the most recent data from your government, Canada's emissions in 2019

01:39:57.000 were just as high as they were 15 years ago.

01:40:01.160 Environmentalists say that your performance is insufficient.

01:40:04.280 If you're so serious about climate change,

01:40:06.600 why are Canada's emissions still going up?

01:40:09.040 We inherited a government from conservatives

01:40:13.080 that did not believe in the fight against climate change,

01:40:16.220 and we had a lot of catching up to do.

01:40:17.600 But what we were able to do in six years

01:40:19.700 is bring in national price on pollution,

01:40:21.960 ban single-use plastics,

01:40:24.080 move forward in protecting more of our coasts

01:40:26.080 and oceans and rivers than any government in history, and we are right now on track

01:40:32.300 to exceeding those 20, 30 targets set at the beginning at Paris, down to 36 percent.

01:40:39.200 And we've gone even further with that with a concrete plan that the experts have said

01:40:44.040 is the only one that can achieve a 40 percent reduction.

01:40:47.200 Which they say you're unlikely to meet.

01:40:48.200 That is what we're dealing with.

01:40:49.880 Okay, Mr. Trudeau.

01:40:51.200 Mr. Beauches.

01:40:52.200 Madame.

01:40:53.200 Your party often criticizes the oil and gas industry in Canada's western provinces.

01:40:59.020 You've said that you would block pipelines trying to go through Quebec.

01:41:02.640 While you were the environment minister, though, you allowed oil exploration and carbon-intensive projects without environmental assessment.

01:41:09.920 So why the double standard, and what do you say to Canadians who feel that you're blocking their prosperity?

01:41:15.160 There were three issues that have been raised since I've been into this election.

01:41:21.260 The first one is having reversed the 9B line of Enbridge, which has been reversed a few years sooner without any evaluation or anything.

01:41:31.960 The second one is a project in Bédé Chaleur, which already had been submitted to an evaluation, an environmental evaluation.

01:41:41.540 And the other one was to have an environmental, I will come to that, evaluation after the exploration.

01:41:49.700 This is all a buildup made by the previously environmentalist Sylvain Guilbault from the Parti Liberal, which the prime minister did not even know about when he attacked me with it.

01:42:02.080 My record is also I've been having signed the carbon market with California,

01:42:08.180 which is still considered the best way to tackle the gas emission through incentives and tariffs around the world, at least North America.

01:42:20.220 That is time. Mercedes, your next question.

01:42:22.820 Mr. O'Toole, you're next.

01:42:24.760 Under your plan, Canada would abandon its current climate target.

01:42:28.940 Instead, you would settle for a weaker one.

01:42:31.200 In fact, it's one set six years ago by Stephen Harper.

01:42:34.860 World leaders are meeting this fall to ratchet up their commitments on climate change on the global stage,

01:42:40.360 yet you would walk ours back.

01:42:42.500 You've said that climate change is real and you've endorsed carbon pricing,

01:42:46.680 but your target is the lowest of all of the major parties who are here tonight.

01:42:51.140 Why should Canadians settle for your plan and a plan that would take our targets back in time?

01:42:57.120 Because Canadians deserve to have a plan and leadership to make the targets.

01:43:01.500 Mr. Trudeau went to Paris.

01:43:03.720 The targets I'm talking about making are the ones he signed on to,

01:43:07.300 and then for six years did not make them.

01:43:10.800 He likes to blame everyone else but himself for action.

01:43:14.040 So what we did, because as I said, Mercedes, we have to build trust on this issue,

01:43:18.260 we went out and worked with the top consultancy in the country

01:43:21.080 to come up with a plan to price carbon, to get our emissions down to meet Paris,

01:43:25.560 but to also get people back to work after COVID-19 with half trillion dollars worth of debt put on by

01:43:32.500 Mr. Trudeau with a cost of living crisis we also need to have a strong economy to get our emissions

01:43:37.920 down. We will make our emission targets and I think it's important for Canada to have a plan

01:43:42.980 to meet what it signs on to internationally. Ms. Paul of the Green Party obviously environment a

01:43:50.200 big focus in your plan, calls for a 60% reduction in Canada's emissions by the year 2030. Other

01:43:56.720 countries that are making that commitment don't face the same challenges that we do

01:44:00.800 here in Canada. We live in a cold, northern, sprawling country, and our economy still relies

01:44:06.580 on resource extraction, much of which you've said you would shut down completely in your

01:44:11.320 platform. How would you offset the economic harm that would result from meeting such an

01:44:16.460 And first let me say that when I think about our future

01:44:19.360 and I think about the future of energy,

01:44:21.460 Canada will remain an energy superpower,

01:44:23.960 but we will be a renewable energy superpower. 0.70

01:44:26.900 And I think about my brother, who was a roughneck

01:44:29.400 out on the oil patch until the bust during the pandemic.

01:44:33.820 And I think about his future.

01:44:35.420 And I know that we have got to diversify our economy.

01:44:38.420 But I tell the people of Canada today

01:44:40.420 that what happens next is really up to you.

01:44:43.060 We need to be able to do that.

01:44:45.060 We can keep moving towards a mirage and that is what these promises are, a mirage that's just out there in the distance that we never arrive at.

01:44:53.800 Or you can send people back to Ottawa from every single party who are committed to working together across party lines on the greatest existential challenge of our time and seizing the opportunity of a truly green recovery.

01:45:07.640 Mr. Singh, you accuse the Trudeau government of being all talk and no action when it comes to

01:45:15.340 climate change and yet you won't even give Canadians a straight answer on whether or not

01:45:19.620 you would cancel the Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion. You've had years as NDP leader to

01:45:24.940 develop a climate plan. Your platform has lots of big ideas and big targets but almost no details

01:45:31.080 on how you would get there. Don't you owe Canadians a clear answer on your climate roadmap and will

01:45:36.840 you provide one tonight absolutely and i'm honored to do so we've got a bold plan that's going to

01:45:42.240 take a lot of courage that requires lots of investment because we know how serious this

01:45:46.540 crisis is and we know what we're up against unlike mr trudeau we're not going to blame

01:45:50.800 previous governments we know that in power we have the power to make a change and if we vote

01:45:56.380 for the same things we're going to get the same results so i want canadians to know you have a

01:45:59.980 choice we are committed to ending answer we'll lay some of it out one of it is to end fossil

01:46:04.800 fuel subsidies, use that to invest in clean energy. We would make sure we prioritize investing

01:46:10.320 in electrified transportation. We would invest in retrofitting homes and buildings to reduce

01:46:14.940 our emissions. There is so much that we can do. We are confident we can do it. But there is a cost

01:46:20.120 if we continue down the same path of conservative or liberals who don't take this seriously. You

01:46:25.460 have a choice. All right. Thank you. Now it is time for open debate. Mercedes is going to keep

01:46:33.860 you leaders on theme. I'm going to keep you on time and make sure everyone has a chance to be

01:46:38.480 heard. Ms. Paul, we're starting with you. Back to you, Mercedes. Thank you. Canadians want their

01:46:45.540 government to fight climate change, but they also worry about the cost for their families,

01:46:50.900 and we know there will be a cost to this. Why should Canadians trust your party to see us

01:46:56.760 there is a global green rush going on now to create the competitive green economy of the future

01:47:06.420 what the greens don't want to see is canada being left behind because that is exactly what's

01:47:12.760 happening you know i'm sure that the last candle maker was the person that had the market cornered

01:47:19.240 on candle making but if everyone has moved on to led lights then you're in trouble and so what we

01:47:24.340 want to see is a seizing this opportunity and mercedes to your earlier question if denmark and

01:47:29.180 greenland other cold countries can end oil exploration then certainly we can do it and

01:47:34.140 if 27 countries in the european union can come together collaboratively to have an ambitious

01:47:39.960 plan for the climate then surely with leadership we can do the same here in canada i know canada

01:47:45.360 can do anything that any other country can do absolutely i think we absolutely can if if any

01:47:51.680 type of energy is removed from the global market, Canadian energy. It's replaced by a bad actor

01:47:57.860 country that doesn't have carbon reduction programs. It doesn't have human rights. It 0.63

01:48:02.040 doesn't have engagement with indigenous communities. Indigenous partnerships in natural 1.00

01:48:07.020 resources is huge. So you said the cost. There are tens of thousands of jobs that deserve an

01:48:12.740 economic recovery just as much as anyone else. There are indigenous partnerships, economic

01:48:18.240 reconciliation and a move towards a made in Canada net zero by 2050. So let's be leaders

01:48:24.900 in getting carbon emissions down and being world leaders on how we have natural resources,

01:48:31.620 whether it's energy, timber, rare earth minerals for EVs, then we can be world leaders again.

01:48:37.140 Let's talk about the cost. The cost of inaction is an entire town of Lytton being wiped out by a

01:48:43.840 climate forest fire. The cost of inaction is forest fires and flooding and heat waves that

01:48:49.180 mean Canadians lose their lives. The cost of not acting means a young woman I met in Hamilton

01:48:54.500 who looked me in the eyes and said, what's the point of me pursuing my education? What's the

01:48:59.440 point of me finding a partner or even starting a family when I don't know what type of future

01:49:03.920 I'll live in, let alone my child? That's the cost of inaction. That's the cost of Mr. Trudeau,

01:49:09.800 who had six years to do something about this.

01:49:13.500 It's not two years.

01:49:14.700 It's not a small mandate.

01:49:16.260 Six years, and he failed you and cost all of us.

01:49:21.040 When we talk about a climate crisis, we have to deal in facts.

01:49:24.640 And one of the facts I need to correct right now that everyone has laid into

01:49:27.360 is we have not missed any of our targets.

01:49:30.140 We are on track to exceeding our targets.

01:49:32.620 And it's important that we are on facts.

01:49:34.880 Secondly, I do have a question for Mr. Singh.

01:49:37.400 We need to talk about science.

01:49:38.820 We need to talk about experts.

01:49:40.420 We agree on that, you and I both.

01:49:42.120 So how is it that the experts that have rated our plan on climate to be an A have rated your plan to be an F?

01:49:49.640 Who are these experts?

01:49:50.640 I rate your track record an F, Mr. Chido. 1.00

01:49:53.860 You've had six years. 1.00

01:49:54.720 You don't get to rate.

01:49:55.440 People know.

01:49:56.300 Well, not just me.

01:49:57.300 Experts.

01:49:57.800 Why did the experts give you an F on your climate plan?

01:50:01.120 Let me respond to this.

01:50:04.300 You're talking about the future.

01:50:06.400 Let's talk about right now.

01:50:07.660 You had six years, and you've got the worst track record in all the G7 after six years.

01:50:16.820 How can people trust you?

01:50:18.240 Why didn't you put forward and ask someone that is for you?

01:50:21.200 Mr. Trudeau, then Ms. Paul, then Mr. Blanchard.

01:50:24.940 I don't accept that, first of all.

01:50:26.060 I don't accept that at all.

01:50:26.860 We've got a bold plan and a strong plan.

01:50:28.880 Mr. Singh, thank you very much, Mr. Trudeau.

01:50:31.960 He cannot explain why his plan is being...

01:50:36.780 is being panned by experts.

01:50:39.180 Now, every politician up here says,

01:50:40.740 we have the best plan.

01:50:41.900 We actually have a record. 0.51

01:50:43.820 And what Mercedes questioned was,

01:50:45.760 how do we make sure it's affordable?

01:50:47.340 We brought in a price on pollution

01:50:49.260 across the country

01:50:50.540 that puts more money back in the pockets

01:50:53.420 in the provinces where it had to be imposed

01:50:55.720 because conservative politicians

01:50:57.100 fought against it every step of the way.

01:50:59.320 Miss Paul, with the greatest of respect,

01:51:03.420 I think the five PhDs

01:51:05.380 in our shadow cabinet

01:51:06.580 who put together our green recovery policy

01:51:10.520 would disagree with you, with the experts.

01:51:12.620 But I do want to say more generally

01:51:14.160 that, again, this is getting us nowhere.

01:51:17.760 We have got to be able to come together

01:51:20.020 across party lines,

01:51:21.820 not only to face the existential crisis

01:51:25.240 that Mr. Singh described,

01:51:26.560 but also to seize the greatest economic opportunity

01:51:30.140 that Canada has seen within our lifetimes.

01:51:32.600 We are being left behind.

01:51:34.300 And if the United States can do it,

01:51:36.120 if the european union can do it i know that we can do it it's about a change in the culture

01:51:41.320 all right thank you miss paul mr blanchette did you want to get in that i'm quite behind everybody

01:51:46.520 else and i have 12 seconds left take some time with the basic statement there's possibility

01:51:53.080 to create more wealth to absorb the cost of the changes that we need we must stop opposing

01:52:00.600 environment and creating wealth it may go together well this is the change that we have to do

01:52:09.240 thank you sir thank you mercedes and now leaders we are moving on to our next theme reconciliation

01:52:23.320 now we are going to our first time voter merrick mcleod in sous saint marie he's got a question

01:52:29.000 to all the leaders merrick you're 18 years old you're a first-time voter what is your question

01:52:34.120 to the leaders go ahead merrick the leaders are listening honey bojo in the ojibwe culture trust

01:52:43.720 and respect is key to any relationship oh oh shoot you got it merrick keep going how can i trust and

01:52:53.080 respect the federal government after 150 plus years of lies and abuse to my people and as prime

01:52:59.160 minister what will you do to rebuild the trust between first nations and the federal government

01:53:05.800 thank you merrick leaders you've heard the question how do you respond to merrick mr

01:53:10.760 trudeau you start this round thank you merrick for your question you're absolutely right

01:53:16.680 over the past 150 years canada has failed in its relationship with indigenous peoples

01:53:22.860 people who we should be working with and shared stewardship of the land,

01:53:26.840 working with in partnership as we draw from the bounty and the beauty of this land

01:53:31.380 to build a better future for all.

01:53:33.400 That is why over the past six years, we have stepped up on the path of reconciliation.

01:53:38.680 We have ended boil water advisories in 109 different communities.

01:53:43.360 We have made sure that tens of thousands of young people get to go to school in better classrooms.

01:53:49.000 We continue to move forward on fighting for the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls

01:53:55.780 and ensuring a true partnership as we move forward in respect.

01:54:00.860 Mr. Blanchet.

01:54:02.360 Your question is quite moving.

01:54:05.060 I would say that no one is entitled to tell any nation what to do or what to think

01:54:15.860 and that every nation has to be recognized as such either it is a nation of 300 people

01:54:23.860 like there is in quebec or eight million people nation like quebec is it calls for a relationship

01:54:31.940 between equals it calls for a relationship in which nobody tells the other party that they are

01:54:39.780 bigger, richer, and therefore, you will do as you are told,

01:54:44.080 even if we say it politely.

01:54:46.320 And first, you provide clean water to everybody.

01:54:50.520 Thank you, Mr. Blanchet. Ms. Paul.

01:54:52.820 Yes, and thank you so much for the question.

01:54:55.800 And I understand the anguish in it as well,

01:54:59.440 because justice delayed is justice denied.

01:55:02.600 And coming from a diaspora, myself,

01:55:05.000 where we have been robbed of our culture,

01:55:07.300 of our languages, of our history,

01:55:09.080 I have no idea where my ancestors were born

01:55:11.080 or where they're buried.

01:55:12.080 I completely understand how important this is

01:55:14.580 and how frustrating it is not to have seen the action.

01:55:17.080 I am tired of being up on these stages

01:55:19.080 without indigenous leadership here to speak for itself.

01:55:23.100 Jody Wilson-Raybould, Mumalak Kalak,

01:55:25.100 I'm thinking of you right now.

01:55:27.100 And when Mumalak, Ms. Kakak said that without action,

01:55:33.100 that the parliament would be hollow, she was right. 0.99

01:55:36.100 So indigenous sovereignty, self-determination

01:55:39.080 determination, nation-to-nation engagement. That is my commitment. Mr. O'Toole. Mr. McLeod, thank you

01:55:46.160 for the question. And the way you phrased it is so important. Reconciliation is about trust and

01:55:51.980 respect and restoring it after a century and a half of a federal government failing. That's why

01:55:58.340 as opposition leader, my first question when I rose in the House of Commons was on a call to

01:56:02.900 action on reconciliation with respect to Indigenous health. We need to build partnerships. We need to

01:56:08.880 restore trust. And that trust is eroded when you make commitments on safe drinking water on

01:56:15.500 reserve, when you make commitments on the calls to action in the Truth and Reconciliation Report

01:56:20.480 and have no plan to fulfill them. So I want to build partnerships and have Indigenous leaders

01:56:26.080 have governance over the federal government finally delivering on our commitment to Indigenous

01:56:31.520 peoples. Mr. Singh. Thank you very much, Merrick. Thank you for your question. How to restore trust.

01:56:37.860 how do you restore trust when indigenous communities suffer injustice and it continues

01:56:45.180 in an unbroken line to this very day how do you restore trust when you've got a prime minister

01:56:52.060 that takes a knee one day and then takes indigenous kids to court the next and how do you restore

01:56:58.720 in a country as wealthy as ours,

01:57:02.020 a G7 nation in the 21st century

01:57:06.320 that still does not provide clean drinking water

01:57:09.400 to every single indigenous nation,

01:57:12.040 it starts by actually walking the path of reconciliation,

01:57:16.380 not with the empty words, but real action, clean water,

01:57:19.980 nation to nation, and respect.

01:57:21.880 Okay, thank you, Mr. Singh.

01:57:23.320 Merrick, did the leaders answer your question?

01:57:27.280 All right, yeah.

01:57:32.280 All right, thank you very much.

01:57:34.280 Miigwech.

01:57:35.280 Miigwech.

01:57:36.280 Miigwech.

01:57:37.280 Messieurs Blanchet and O'Toole, it is your turn to debate now.

01:57:42.280 You've promised more money to search for unmarked graves,

01:57:46.280 but so much more needs to be done

01:57:48.280 to achieve meaningful reconciliation.

01:57:51.280 Mr. Blanchet, you begin.

01:57:53.280 Tell me, how are you better positioned

01:57:56.280 than Mr. O'Toole to restore justice?

01:57:59.780 I am not better positioned than Mr. O'Toole

01:58:02.780 because I believe that this is a relationship

01:58:05.280 between nations, and, you know, your presence in nation,

01:58:08.720 I feel I represent another one,

01:58:10.520 and we are discussing with a lot of other nations.

01:58:13.540 But I will remind everybody

01:58:15.440 that on the last day of the last session,

01:58:18.140 we had a motion adopted unanimously by the parliament,

01:58:23.640 parliament and this motion was precisely saying what we had been told to carry by

01:58:30.120 the First Nation leaders and we had it adopted this might be the way to do it

01:58:34.980 many times the Bloc Québécois said even if we don't agree with everything that

01:58:39.000 we would share our seats and our voices in the parliament with the First Nations

01:58:44.640 in order to have them being heard by the whole country after the tragic finding

01:58:52.320 graves in Kamloops, Cowessess, and other former residential school sites, we offered to work in

01:58:58.080 a bipartisan fashion on calls to action 71 to 76. Those are related to former residential school

01:59:04.320 sites. And we need to act faster. I know Mr. Trudeau cares a great deal about reconciliation.

01:59:09.600 I know we all do. But this is an issue where we have to act. We can no longer say that we recognize

01:59:16.800 the calls to action. We need a plan to achieve them. And what I'm proposing is a plan that builds

01:59:22.160 partnerships, that builds governance, that has indigenous leaders, incredible ones, like

01:59:27.460 Jody Wilson-Raybould, to allow us to actually hold ourselves to account. All parties, all

01:59:34.720 future governments. This is the big scar in the history of Canada. And we have to tackle

01:59:40.520 it, not just with good intentions, but with a good plan to deliver for all indigenous

01:59:45.760 people.

01:59:46.000 Mr. Blanchet, briefly.

01:59:46.920 that the prime minister has nominated

01:59:50.680 Gouverneur Générale, I don't know how to translate that,

01:59:53.460 who speaks in Uqtutuk, which is great,

01:59:55.160 but does not speak French.

01:59:56.420 Still, he does not agree with the idea of acknowledging,

02:00:01.500 recognizing First Nation languages

02:00:04.340 as official languages in his country.

02:00:06.880 All right, we will leave that segment there.

02:00:09.040 Ms. Paul, Mr. Singh, Mr. Trudeau, you're up.

02:00:12.640 Tell me, what is your plan

02:00:15.020 to end the ongoing disproportionate violence

02:00:18.460 against Indigenous women and girls.

02:00:21.220 Ms. Paul.

02:00:22.300 The first thing is to make space for Indigenous leadership

02:00:26.140 because, you know, we have done all these things

02:00:28.460 and made all these promises.

02:00:29.760 We know what needs to be done.

02:00:31.080 The recommendations are there in the calls for justice

02:00:34.140 and the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls report,

02:00:37.180 and yet we still don't have the action.

02:00:39.180 And so, as I said before,

02:00:40.600 it should be Jody up here answering that question.

02:00:43.280 And it should be Mumala Kakak up here answering that question.

02:00:46.920 We need to make the space for Indigenous leadership to guide this process.

02:00:51.380 And above all, we need to make this a priority.

02:00:55.360 All that is left now is political will.

02:00:58.260 But that is exactly what we have been doing, Ms. Paul.

02:01:00.920 When we called the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls

02:01:05.740 after years of governments avoiding doing that,

02:01:08.620 we ensured that we brought the truth forward.

02:01:10.460 And then we worked with indigenous leaders groups, indigenous women's groups to co-develop the action plan that we are now fully funding so we can get justice for the victims, healing for the families and put an end to this ongoing national tragedy.

02:01:25.980 It will take a lot of work by all of us, but we are walking this road in partnership because we know it needs to be done and there is much more to do.

02:01:35.560 Mr. Trudeau, sadly, and I don't take any pleasure in this,

02:01:38.560 the calls to justice are out there, and you haven't acted on them.

02:01:41.720 And I meant it when I said you can't take a knee one day

02:01:44.100 if you're going to take Indigenous kids to court the next. 0.98

02:01:46.580 That's not leadership. 0.93

02:01:47.800 Mr. Singh, you love that line about taking Indigenous kids to court.

02:01:51.360 It's actually not true.

02:01:53.420 We have committed to compensating those kids who went through that.

02:01:57.800 And what's more than that, this is important, Mr. Singh.

02:02:00.280 No, you can't say you're not taking them to court when you're taking them to court.

02:02:02.560 There are kids out there that are being fought by you in court.

02:02:05.880 Leaders, I would actually remind you the question is about violence against indigenous women and girls.

02:02:11.680 Let me recenter you on that.

02:02:13.740 I appreciate it because you can't continue to say that.

02:02:15.520 That doesn't make any sense.

02:02:15.880 And Ms. Curl, I will say again, I said this last night in the French debate,

02:02:20.100 this is why we need more diversity in politics.

02:02:22.720 This is why we need people who are most directly impacted by issues to be able to speak for themselves

02:02:27.880 because we are drifting off into things.

02:02:30.200 we have only dedicated two minutes to talking about how we are going to bring true justice

02:02:35.640 to Indigenous women in this country.

02:02:37.900 If we could stick to the topic.

02:02:39.220 Mr. Trudeau.

02:02:39.920 Ms. Curl, on this topic, and it was brought up in the earlier one, and we talked about

02:02:43.740 Indigenous women, I want to talk about those kids buried in unmarked graves across the

02:02:47.920 country, because it was a tragedy for all Canadians, one long known by Indigenous peoples.

02:02:52.640 But when I went to Cowessess to speak with Chief Kasmus DeLorme, we not only grieved

02:02:57.480 those kids. We signed an agreement, a landmark agreement, to keep kids at risk in their

02:03:03.960 communities, to take them out of the provincial system. That is how we moved forward. It took

02:03:08.580 years to sign that agreement, but we got it, and we are empowering Indigenous communities

02:03:13.400 to care for their own kids. Mr. Trudeau, we're out of time. Mr. Singh, I'm going to give you

02:03:16.600 a very brief moment to respond briefly. We're over time. We need to implement all the calls

02:03:21.980 to justice. We need to listen to Indigenous women and girls. We need to make sure that they're safe,

02:03:26.600 and we have the steps that they've laid out that we need to follow.

02:03:29.480 All right. Thank you very much, leaders.

02:03:31.240 Now, I'm really pleased to welcome Melissa Ridgen of APTN News.

02:03:36.700 Melissa is going to be asking you each a direct question on our theme of reconciliation.

02:03:42.180 Your first question, hi, Melissa, is to Mr. Blanchett.

02:03:45.920 Over to you.

02:03:47.060 Tonje, thank you all for being here.

02:03:48.560 It's a pleasure to be here with you to ask some questions for our APTN audience.

02:03:53.760 Mr. Blanchett, I'm going to start with you.

02:03:55.080 You know, numerous government reports, including in Quebec,

02:03:58.160 have sounded the alarm that systemic racism exists,

02:04:01.860 from Joyce Eshaquon dying as she's taunted by hospital staff,

02:04:06.440 to policing, the justice system.

02:04:09.180 What will you do as Black leader to address systemic racism

02:04:12.720 in your own province, in Quebec, and also elsewhere in Canada?

02:04:15.360 First, never underestimate the weight, the sadness of those dramas.

02:04:21.660 Second, I acknowledged, I recognized the existence of systemic racism in June 2020.

02:04:30.280 And then, what happened?

02:04:32.260 It became a political tool against Quebec.

02:04:35.960 It became a tool to say Quebec is this and that and racist and xenophobic and all of that.

02:04:41.400 Instead of opening a discussion, trying to find solution, consulting experts, discussing with the First Nations themselves, 0.69

02:04:50.720 It became this white society against this other one white society. 0.80

02:04:58.540 We build nothing.

02:05:00.180 So the words became toxic.

02:05:02.540 I'm absolutely open to the idea of discussing all of that on a quiet stage without this

02:05:10.440 aggressivity, being aggressive as this debate has become.

02:05:15.580 All right, Mr. Blanchet, we have to move on.

02:05:17.300 Your next question, Melissa.

02:05:18.180 This question's for you, Ms. Paul.

02:05:20.720 You know, Canada has more children in government custody right now than at the height of residential schools.

02:05:26.820 New legislation, child welfare legislation, actually takes the onus and puts it on the First Nations communities 0.56

02:05:33.060 to bring their kids back, cleaning up the mess that Canada has created, essentially.

02:05:38.720 And those children are going to have to be brought back to all of those same problems that still exist

02:05:43.300 that were the grounds for apprehension.

02:05:45.620 What would you do in the House of Commons to make sure that poverty and trauma issues are addressed?

02:05:52.640 Thank you very much for that question.

02:05:54.940 And absolutely, we mentioned that not that long ago in one of our statements that the residential school system had been replaced by children in care and that this was just perpetuating the legacy of trauma.

02:06:10.140 It really comes back to what I said before, which is that the Indigenous leadership is there.

02:06:15.020 It is ready to guide all of these processes.

02:06:17.660 We have all of the recommendations we need.

02:06:19.660 What we are missing is political will.

02:06:21.780 What we are missing is those who have been in power for a very long time,

02:06:25.680 making space for new voices and diverse voices.

02:06:29.200 I actually had to pull my jaw up, which just dropped,

02:06:32.800 when I heard what Mr. Blanchett said.

02:06:35.000 I invited Mr. Blanchett to get educated about systemic discrimination.

02:06:39.520 I extend that invitation again.

02:06:41.260 I would be happy to educate him.

02:06:42.820 It's nice to want to educate me.

02:06:44.280 This is my time, sir.

02:06:45.900 It is.

02:06:46.520 Nice time to insult people.

02:06:48.220 That was not an insult.

02:06:49.180 It was an invitation to educate yourself.

02:06:50.960 This is leader direct questions, Melissa.

02:06:53.640 There should be some discency in this debate.

02:06:56.760 Since I'm many minutes behind everybody else, there should be some discency in the debate.

02:07:01.220 You have had every opportunity to jump in an open debate.

02:07:03.420 It's your responsibility, not mine, but some things cannot be said.

02:07:05.400 And I am fulfilling my responsibility, sir.

02:07:07.200 Melissa, we're going to keep moving on.

02:07:08.900 Is it my turn?

02:07:09.560 It is your turn.

02:07:10.420 Thank you.

02:07:11.600 Mr. Trudeau, this is for you.

02:07:13.160 You know, your liberal government has turned Indian affairs into two separate massive bureaucracies

02:07:18.660 that eat up large portions of funding that will never see it onto reserve.

02:07:23.100 It doesn't leave the bureaucracy.

02:07:25.160 You know, you've promised clean drinking water, but billions of dollars later, that's not happened.

02:07:29.300 Many still do not have clean drinking water.

02:07:31.720 You know, Canadians and Indigenous people are losing patience with the lack of results from all of this spending.

02:07:39.100 So I guess the question is, why would they believe you this, a third term, that they

02:07:43.320 would get results and you would be accountable for all that spending?

02:07:46.420 One of the enemies of progressive politics, Melissa, is cynicism, is discounting the hard

02:07:53.300 work that millions of people have been involved in over the past years.

02:07:56.940 And yes, there's always more to do.

02:07:59.120 Progressives always know there's more to do.

02:08:01.820 But when we came into office, there were 105 long-term boil water advisories.

02:08:06.300 We lifted 109 of them, and for each of the ones that are remaining, we have a project lead, a project team, and an action plan, and we are going to lift those all.

02:08:16.160 There are tens of thousands of kids across this country, indigenous kids, who've started the school year in new schools or refurbished schools.

02:08:24.020 We have moved forward on settling more agreements and more land claims and more partnerships than any other government over the years.

02:08:31.760 We continue to work in partnership and respect and invest more money in Indigenous communities than any previous government.

02:08:38.400 And no, we're not done yet.

02:08:40.160 I think the money, I don't think anybody's questioning the money spent.

02:08:43.260 I think that they're questioning the results for the money that's spent.

02:08:46.500 My next question is to you, Mr. Singh.

02:08:48.860 You know, federal forces, including the RCMP and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans,

02:08:52.940 have been used throughout Canada's history to prevent First Nations from exercising their treaty rights to fish and to hunt and to defend land and water.

02:09:01.220 This is happening right now on both coasts, including under the NDP party in British Columbia with regards to fishing and logging.

02:09:09.380 So my question would be to you as prime minister, what would you do to ensure indigenous rights and title are finally respected in this country?

02:09:17.120 I really appreciate the question. First of all, we need to respect indigenous treaty land and rights.

02:09:22.760 That's a fundamental step towards walking the path of reconciliation in a real meaningful way.

02:09:27.040 But you mentioned the RCMP, and I've got to talk about the really sad reality that there's been violence, heavy-handed violence, against indigenous communities, against peaceful protesters.

02:09:39.280 And we have long called, I have long called, for reform of policing.

02:09:43.200 When I was in the provincial level, I fought against carting.

02:09:46.100 I've continued to use every platform I have to say, we've got to stop the use of force.

02:09:51.260 We've got to overview it.

02:09:52.540 We've got to change the RCMP's mandate.

02:09:54.860 And that's something we can do at the federal level.

02:09:56.500 That's something that Mr. Trudeau said he would do and yet has yet to do.

02:10:00.840 And it's something I'm committed to making sure it happens.

02:10:04.840 Mr. O'Toole, my next question is for you.

02:10:07.100 You know, you voted against the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People

02:10:10.600 that would share decision-making power with Indigenous people

02:10:13.640 over what happens on their land.

02:10:15.980 And you also want to criminalize Indigenous dissent

02:10:19.060 that's expressed through blockades or protests.

02:10:21.300 So the question is, if you're a Prime Minister,

02:10:22.980 how could Canada build a respectful nation-to-nation relationship with Indigenous people?

02:10:29.760 Thank you, Ms. Ridge. And this goes very similar to Mr. McLeod's question on trust and respect.

02:10:34.840 I want to build those partnerships. And that's why our only concern with the United Nations

02:10:38.920 Declaration was how free and prior informed consent was defined so that it didn't stop

02:10:43.880 partnerships from being formed. I'm really glad to say one of the early leaders behind the UN

02:10:49.060 Declaration, Chief Willie Littlechild, has agreed to serve as a special counsel to me

02:10:53.840 on the implementation of that to make sure that there are partnerships and opportunities.

02:10:59.300 What I want to do as Prime Minister is build that type of nation-to-nation dialogue and

02:11:03.460 partnership so that the next generation has intergenerational wealth and opportunity transfer,

02:11:09.900 not trauma.

02:11:11.060 And building that trust will be core to me.

02:11:13.340 It's why, as I said, my first question was on reconciliation.

02:11:17.640 We have to make progress.

02:11:19.740 All right.

02:11:20.040 Thank you, Mr. O'Toole.

02:11:21.180 Now we move on to open debate, a reminder that Melissa will be here to keep the leaders on theme.

02:11:26.500 I will be here to do my best to keep you on time.

02:11:29.720 And all of you have an opportunity to jump in after Mr. Trudeau begins with a question from Melissa.

02:11:37.040 Okay.

02:11:37.820 I think if there's one thing that Canadians and Indigenous people can all agree upon, it is that this Indian Act system is not working for anybody.

02:11:44.960 How would you dismantle this broken, top-down system, and what would you replace it with

02:11:49.760 that would ensure that Canada still is living up to its constitutional obligations to Indigenous people? 0.75

02:11:55.780 First of all, we are looking forward to dismantling the Indian Act.

02:11:59.920 It is a commitment of ours, but it is not something that Ottawa gets to decide.

02:12:04.300 And what replaces the Indian Act will vary from community to community as we live up to our obligations.

02:12:10.760 And that's why over the years, as we've moved towards self-government, we have accompanied communities, some who want to start with health, some who want to start with education, some who want to start with economic development.

02:12:22.580 Every community, every nation across this country gets to help define what its path is forward.

02:12:28.580 We will be there to listen, to partner, to build a better future every step of the way.

02:12:34.040 The way to go forward is to listen to leaders. And Mr. Trudeau ignored one that he had in his

02:12:39.240 own cabinet, Jody Wilson-Raybould. That was a huge lost opportunity. We've been speaking to people

02:12:44.360 with how we can accelerate treaty resolution. There are some treaty negotiations, Ms. Ridgen,

02:12:49.140 that have been going on, as you probably know, for decades. We need to solve it and we need to

02:12:53.460 work with Indigenous leaders. There's incredible Indigenous leaders in non-profits, in the private

02:12:59.280 sector in industry in academia we need to use that governance capacity to finalize treaties

02:13:05.920 and build partnerships absolutely because the best way forward is success for indigenous peoples

02:13:11.600 alongside their neighbors along this one point i think absolutely the solution has to be indigenous

02:13:20.960 led and i think that's the starting point and for a long time we've seen that there's been a

02:13:25.120 top-down approach that has to change it has to be indigenous people at the table but i want to talk

02:13:29.120 just so we understand how severe this is,

02:13:31.820 how the Indian Act is creating injustice

02:13:34.760 and perpetuating injustice.

02:13:36.360 I spoke to Bea, who's a young woman, a young girl,

02:13:39.400 who lives in Niskanthika, and she told me in her own voice,

02:13:42.860 she said, I'm a 12-year-old girl,

02:13:45.140 and I'm fighting for clean drinking water.

02:13:47.180 How does that make any sense?

02:13:49.080 Those words haunt me to this day.

02:13:50.780 I think about what 12-year-olds do,

02:13:52.780 and they certainly aren't fighting for clean drinking water.

02:13:55.140 That is a legacy.

02:13:56.540 That is the impact of the Indian Act.

02:13:59.120 I want to go back to what Mr. O'Toole has been saying, because he's very able at saying all the right things, but there are countless examples of him actually not living up to his words.

02:14:08.640 We've seen him on a number of times during this campaign, but on indigenous issues specifically, he says we need to listen to indigenous peoples.

02:14:15.840 Well, he proposed that he would raise the flags that are at half mass for the kids in unmarked graves in residential schools.

02:14:23.160 And he didn't talk to or listen to any indigenous leaders when he made that decision.

02:14:28.380 And that's something that is important and symbolic, but wouldn't cost a cent.

02:14:32.600 How do we believe that he would be able to actually make the investment early necessary?

02:14:38.220 I'm going to give Ms. Paul and Mr. Blanchett a chance to jump in.

02:14:42.600 We haven't heard from them yet.

02:14:43.780 Time permitting, I'll come back to you, Mr. O'Toole.

02:14:45.820 And I really again want to...

02:14:47.640 I asked Mr. Trudeau to move immediately.

02:14:49.760 Hold on, hold on, Ms. Paul. 0.99

02:14:51.360 I really just want to try to re-center our conversation on indigenous peoples

02:14:55.700 and what we are going to do to fulfill

02:14:58.040 the many unfulfilled promises and commitments

02:15:00.740 that have been made.

02:15:02.540 And I would say, perhaps, to pick up on what has been said,

02:15:05.740 you know, that it seems all too often

02:15:08.080 that reconciliation is treated like a buffet.

02:15:11.820 You can opt in for this, pick this, you know,

02:15:13.720 pick this plate, but not the other one.

02:15:16.080 And that applies to what we've seen with Mr. Trudeau

02:15:19.460 and the liberals.

02:15:21.060 You can't, on the one hand, say reconciliation

02:15:23.600 and then go and not allow Mi'kmaq fishers to be able to have a decent, moderate living for all of these years. 0.98

02:15:30.840 You can't call reconciliation and then take Indigenous peoples to court.

02:15:34.740 But, Mr. Singh, you also can't say reconciliation and then support the NDP government

02:15:39.460 in putting pipelines through Indigenous territories,

02:15:42.600 or support Line 5 after the Anishinaabeg made it very clear that they did not support that project.

02:15:48.700 Ms. Paul, I'm going to allow Mr. Blanchett to get in.

02:15:51.200 He's been signaling he wants to.

02:15:52.440 I will come back to the two of you.

02:15:53.980 Mr. Blanchet.

02:15:55.120 First Nations and Quebec have something in common.

02:15:58.400 They are binded by a document they never signed.

02:16:02.760 And any relationship between nations

02:16:05.060 should be dealt with,

02:16:08.300 with freely signed treaties or agreements or something.

02:16:13.880 The Indian Act has to be replaced

02:16:17.020 one nation at a time, if need be,

02:16:20.000 by and with freely signed treaties and agreement.

02:16:25.080 There's no other way.

02:16:26.400 And if I may come back a few seconds on something else. 0.95

02:16:29.440 Quebec wants religion out of the state affairs

02:16:32.600 because religion never protected equality for women 0.75

02:16:36.860 and never will.

02:16:38.920 We are over time.

02:16:40.320 I'm going to give you both a chance to briefly respond.

02:16:42.600 Mr. O'Toole, then Mr. Singh, briefly, please.

02:16:45.540 I am proud of this country.

02:16:47.020 And I think if you love your country,

02:16:48.860 you can dig deep to make it better.

02:16:50.880 So as prime minister on the National Day of Reconciliation on September 30th,

02:16:55.520 I will raise the flag with a commitment to move forward on calls to action.

02:17:00.980 Mr. Trudeau promises things, doesn't deliver,

02:17:04.080 and then when people protested him, he mocked them.

02:17:07.420 That is not reconciliation.

02:17:09.020 So you can be proud of your country as you strive for it to get better.

02:17:11.960 Thank you, Mr. O'Toole, Mr. Singh, briefly.

02:17:14.120 I think that Mr. Trudeau may care.

02:17:16.900 I think he cares.

02:17:17.880 but the reality is that he's often done a lot of things for show and hasn't backed those up with

02:17:22.000 real action. And the harm is, is that indigenous people continue to suffer. And that's what I want

02:17:27.140 to stop. I want to stop the suffering and lift up indigenous people. Five seconds, Mr. Trudeau,

02:17:32.060 then we got to go. Mr. Trudeau, five seconds. Unfortunately, the cynicism that Mr. Singh is

02:17:37.200 showing on saying we did nothing is harming reconciliation and the path we're moving forward.

02:17:42.320 We have lots more to do and we are doing it. All right, leaders. Thank you. Thank you,

02:17:47.040 Melissa. Marcy, Marcy. Marcy. And now it is time for our fourth theme for the night, affordability.

02:17:58.320 It's time now to bring in Janet Falla. She is a senior working part-time in Burlington,

02:18:04.300 Ontario. Good evening, Janet. Please tell us what your question is to the leaders.

02:18:08.220 my question is this at my age i never imagined that i would have to keep on working but i have

02:18:18.540 to to afford to live where i do so i'd like to know when they become prime minister

02:18:25.660 what will they do to help us seniors survive thank you janet leaders you've heard janet's

02:18:33.580 We're starting with you, Mr. Blanchet.

02:18:35.580 Merci, madame.

02:18:37.580 For many months now,

02:18:39.580 the Bloc Québécois has demanded for the government

02:18:43.580 to increase the amount of money being provided

02:18:47.580 on a monthly basis to our elders.

02:18:50.580 It's nowhere in the Conservatives' program,

02:18:54.580 and in the Liberals' program,

02:18:56.580 it starts at 75, nothing below 75 for this pension.

02:19:01.580 I'm not sure about the word in English.

02:19:03.580 It has to be done.

02:19:04.580 Those people are those who suffered the most from the pandemic.

02:19:08.580 Their power to buy things was reduced.

02:19:11.580 The fact that they were alone more than never before was made worse.

02:19:18.580 And the stress, the anxiety they lived with is terrible.

02:19:22.580 We want something to be done,

02:19:24.580 and it has to start with a monthly check seriously increased.

02:19:28.580 Thank you, Mr. Blanchett, Mr. O'Toole.

02:19:30.580 tool? Thank you, Ms. Valla, for the question. This is a crisis facing our country, affordability,

02:19:37.520 and it's hitting our seniors the hardest. That's why in Canada's recovery plan, our plan

02:19:43.140 to give you a break, we're going to double the Canada workers' benefit. There are many seniors 1.00

02:19:48.280 like you having to work to keep up with the cost of living. We're going to double that for you to

02:19:53.580 give you a break. We're going to get bills down for internet, for cellular phone. We're going to

02:19:58.320 get grocery bills down. That is our plan and our commitment. And in December, we're going to give

02:20:02.780 you a break with the GST holiday and help bricks and mortar stores in the process. Mr. Trudeau

02:20:08.780 is borrowing every day $424 million, and he's causing an inflation crisis. We have to secure

02:20:16.600 our future, and that's our commitment to you. Thank you, Mr. O'Toole. Mr. Trudeau.

02:20:21.920 Ms. Fellers, thank you so much for your question. We know that seniors have been

02:20:27.020 deeply affected by this pandemic, the isolation, the extra costs, which is why we stepped up

02:20:32.220 with a one-time support so you could help get through this pandemic. But we need

02:20:36.320 longer-term supports. One of the first things we did was increase the guaranteed income supplement

02:20:40.720 for our most vulnerable single seniors when we first got elected. We're doing that again

02:20:45.060 in our proposal in this election. We're also moving forward with increasing the OAS for all

02:20:52.300 seniors over 75 because we recognize that the costs continue to increase as you get older and

02:20:59.300 continue to want to live at home. We're giving you more supports so you can stay at home safely

02:21:04.200 and make those renovations, importantly. We will continue to have your backs as we have through

02:21:09.320 this pandemic and into the future. Thank you, Mr. Trudeau. Mr. Singh. I want to thank you so much

02:21:14.680 for your question. And one of the things that you mentioned is that you didn't think you would have

02:21:18.280 to keep on working. And I don't think our seniors should have to work. If seniors want to contribute

02:21:23.240 by working, that's absolutely their right. But you shouldn't have had to work. And in a country

02:21:28.700 as rich as ours, we should make sure our seniors are able to retire with dignity,

02:21:33.380 that you've got the supports necessary to live a life of dignity. So what we're proposing to do

02:21:38.080 is put in place a guaranteed income for seniors so they can live with dignity and not have to

02:21:42.780 worry about paying the bills. That's a starting point. What we've seen so far is that Mr. Trudeau

02:21:48.620 and Mr. O'Toole both are going to either cut the help that you receive or put the burden back on

02:21:54.460 people like you. We believe that the ultra-rich should pay their fair share for once and invest

02:21:59.020 in you, invest in families, invest in people. Thank you, Mr. Singh. Ms. Paul.

02:22:04.180 Thank you very, very much for the question. And as someone who comes from a family where my

02:22:09.880 had to work until, actually, they were kicked out of working

02:22:14.080 because they needed to keep working to afford the basics.

02:22:17.380 I completely understand what you're saying.

02:22:19.960 And this is an opportunity for us to learn the lessons

02:22:23.260 from this pandemic and to really get to the heart of things

02:22:26.260 and to stop talking about the symptoms

02:22:28.260 but get to the root causes.

02:22:29.840 We need to have, absolutely, and it's so wonderful

02:22:32.540 to see the consensus building around

02:22:34.040 a guaranteed livable income

02:22:35.640 so that whatever your circumstances,

02:22:37.500 you can live with dignity.

02:22:38.840 We need universal long-term care.

02:22:40.640 That's a huge expense. It was for my family.

02:22:43.140 And we need more affordable housing. 0.87

02:22:45.380 Let's get to the root causes.

02:22:48.020 Thank you, Ms. Paul.

02:22:49.580 Mr. Singh and Mr. Blanchet, you will both square off now.

02:22:53.180 You both talk about affordable housing,

02:22:56.500 but we know that affordability means different things

02:23:00.000 to different people depending on where in the country they live.

02:23:03.900 So when you talk about affordable housing,

02:23:06.240 housing, who are you really talking about? Per the draw, Mr. Singh, you begin. Mr. Blanchett,

02:23:11.700 you may jump in anytime. We're talking about people who are spending right now more than

02:23:17.780 half their income on housing. That's not affordable. People should not be spending so

02:23:22.840 much on housing that they have no money left to pay for their groceries, to pay for their bills.

02:23:27.600 And the sad reality is since 2015 to now, the average cost of housing nationally has gone up

02:23:35.220 to buy a home by $300,000.

02:23:38.320 So, so far, the housing crisis has gotten worse

02:23:40.820 over the past six years.

02:23:42.100 We want to invest in housing.

02:23:43.700 We want to invest to make it easier to buy your first home

02:23:45.880 and to invest to make sure there's available,

02:23:48.460 affordable rental homes.

02:23:49.680 Let Mr. Blanchet respond.

02:23:51.200 Could anyone tell me how to translate logement social?

02:23:53.760 Social housing.

02:23:54.780 Social housing might be a solution to another problem.

02:23:58.320 People are paying, at least in Quebec,

02:24:00.600 people are paying far too much for houses

02:24:02.740 because the prices have increased tremendously the idea is to reduce the speed of that increase

02:24:11.300 while helping people who cannot even afford decent lodging if we build more social lodging

02:24:19.860 which price are obviously very lower much lower then it will lessen the pressure on those houses

02:24:26.820 become more and more expensive.

02:24:31.220 And it will help reduce this...

02:24:32.920 I wouldn't speak about an inflation crisis,

02:24:35.400 but I would speak about an inflation worry,

02:24:38.500 which we must have at present times.

02:24:41.900 So I believe one thing might be part of the solution

02:24:44.780 for the other thing when we speak about...

02:24:47.240 All right, Mr. Blanchet, that's time.

02:24:49.500 I'm sorry, Mr. Singh, that's time.

02:24:51.520 You speak about inflation, Mr. Blanchet,

02:24:54.320 and that brings us to our next topic.

02:24:56.820 So, Mr. O'Toole, Mr. Trudeau, and Ms. Paul, you're up.

02:25:00.640 Inflation is at its highest level in a decade,

02:25:03.740 and it is squeezing Canadians on staples such as groceries, gas, rent.

02:25:09.000 What's your message to Canadians who are struggling to make ends meet?

02:25:13.980 Per the draw, you begin, Mr. O'Toole.

02:25:16.260 Well, unlike Mr. Trudeau, I will care about monetary policy

02:25:20.320 because we need to keep inflation low.

02:25:22.900 There is a crisis hitting families,

02:25:24.760 And Mr. Trudeau seems completely oblivious to that.

02:25:28.280 Bills are going up.

02:25:29.500 There's a housing crisis, as we talked about.

02:25:32.080 And he's making it worse with, as I said, almost half a billion dollars of borrowing per day.

02:25:38.520 There's real risks on the horizon.

02:25:40.240 So we have a plan to get people work, get people, get their bills down, give them a break.

02:25:46.340 Canadians deserve a break and balance the budget over the course of the next decade.

02:25:50.220 That's exactly what we need to fight against Mr. Trudeau's inflation.

02:25:53.820 Give families a break.

02:25:55.260 Ms. Paul, try not to interrupt anyone.

02:25:57.560 You know, it's just an excellent question.

02:26:00.060 And if you come to my neighborhood of Toronto Centre,

02:26:02.960 you will see those people living in inadequate housing.

02:26:05.560 You will see people paying more than half of their income

02:26:09.460 just for things like childcare.

02:26:11.580 And, you know, there's this expression in my culture

02:26:14.680 where you talk about soon come.

02:26:16.680 It's the things that you delay to tomorrow and tomorrow

02:26:20.020 that should have been done today.

02:26:21.680 This is soon come, soon come is now.

02:26:24.120 We have got to learn the lessons of the pandemic

02:26:26.220 and make sure that we have a social safety net in place

02:26:29.860 that lets everyone live with dignity.

02:26:31.720 When we invest in our people, we are investing in our future,

02:26:35.920 and this is the time for us to do that.

02:26:37.940 It costs us not to do it.

02:26:40.020 Over the past year and a half,

02:26:41.840 I made a straightforward promise to Canadians

02:26:43.560 that we would have your backs, and that's what we did.

02:26:46.660 During this pandemic, we were there to support people,

02:26:48.920 but at the same time, we need to continue that.

02:26:51.000 That's why we've put forward a $10 a day child care proposal that will save the average family in Toronto close to $10,000 more than Mr. O'Toole's approach on child care, which he would cancel.

02:27:04.200 We also put forward a national housing plan that will invest $4 billion to work with municipalities to create 1.4 million homes.

02:27:13.560 The housing crisis has gotten worse under you, Mr. O'Toole's plan on housing.

02:27:15.280 Let him respond, Mr. O'Toole.

02:27:16.500 Mr. O'Toole, let Mr. O'Toole respond.

02:27:18.480 Sorry, let me just finish this.

02:27:19.320 Mr. O'Toole's plan on housing gives half a billion dollars on breaks to the wealthiest landlords and nothing for building new houses.

02:27:29.640 The housing crisis has gotten worse under Mr. Trudeau.

02:27:32.320 And months ago, he fought against us trying to take foreign non-resident money out of our housing market.

02:27:38.000 We've got a plan to get rental housing built.

02:27:40.360 We've got a plan to get density, a million new homes in the next three years.

02:27:44.420 And to give first-time homebuyers a break by a longer mortgage.

02:27:49.320 And Mr. Trudeau, Canadians are worried you're going to be taxing their primary home sale.

02:27:54.620 Your advisors have said it.

02:27:56.020 Your candidates have said it.

02:27:57.560 It's on page 14 of his policy book.

02:28:00.140 He's introducing a new tax on the sale of homes.

02:28:02.680 Leaders, there will be more opportunity to speak about these issues.

02:28:07.040 Thank you.

02:28:07.660 Because guess what?

02:28:08.720 I'm bringing out Rosemary Barton of CBC News. 0.91

02:28:11.160 And she's going to be asking you more direct questions and opening up more opportunities for debate.

02:28:16.340 on this theme of affordability.

02:28:19.240 Hey, Rosie.

02:28:20.000 Hey, Shanti, thanks, and good to see everybody.

02:28:21.860 I appreciate you being here.

02:28:22.700 Let's try and get some answers this time, shall we?

02:28:25.580 Ms. Paul, I'll start with you.

02:28:26.940 One of the plans that you've laid out

02:28:28.700 to tackle affordability is a guaranteed livable income.

02:28:31.720 You mentioned it just moments ago,

02:28:33.380 give people a set amount of money to deal with their lives.

02:28:35.740 There was an expert panel in British Columbia

02:28:37.820 just recently that said that that is not the way forward,

02:28:41.780 but that actually is too complicated

02:28:43.660 for the needs of our society,

02:28:44.980 that the needs are too diverse.

02:28:46.480 Why do you think this is still a policy worth pursuing?

02:28:50.280 Guaranteed livable income is a policy whose time has come.

02:28:54.280 We saw at the beginning of the pandemic

02:28:55.820 how many people were thrown immediately

02:28:57.860 into financial crisis

02:28:59.460 because our patchwork system simply isn't working.

02:29:02.160 There is a growing consensus.

02:29:04.560 The members of the Liberal Party

02:29:05.860 voted for it at their convention.

02:29:07.800 The members of the NDP Party voted at their convention.

02:29:11.840 50 senators signed a letter calling for it.

02:29:14.080 The time has come to ensure that everyone has the support that they need to live in dignity in this country.

02:29:20.260 The parliamentary budget officer looked at guaranteed livable income.

02:29:24.620 He examined the model in Ontario, and here's what he said.

02:29:28.860 He said that it would lift half of the people who are in poverty now out of it,

02:29:32.920 that it was affordable, and that it would not disincentify his work.

02:29:37.040 This is the time for a guaranteed livable income.

02:29:39.140 Let's do it together.

02:29:40.420 That's time. Thank you.

02:29:41.340 Mr. O'Toole, child care, as you know, is a huge expense for families.

02:29:44.920 You would scrap the deals that the Liberals have made with provinces,

02:29:47.860 which drops fees by 50% immediately and creates spaces

02:29:52.240 and eventually will reduce fees to $10.

02:29:55.060 Instead, you're proposing a tax credit that would reimburse just some families $6,000 a year.

02:30:01.560 So what does your plan do to create spaces and lower fees?

02:30:05.600 Because as you know here, it's not just about affordability, but also about access.

02:30:10.500 It's about helping all families now, not in five years helping some.

02:30:15.100 And our plan would help lower-income families with up to 75% of the cost.

02:30:20.600 Our plan will also help that nurse on shift schedules that has jobs in the evening, that needs flexibility.

02:30:27.740 What we want to do is help all families get ahead and provide more support for the lower income.

02:30:31.220 But if the nurse can't find a spot, Mr. O'Toole, what does she do?

02:30:33.940 If the nurse can't find a spot, what does she do with her children?

02:30:36.700 This gives her as much flexibility as possible.

02:30:38.280 If there's not one in her suburban community, there is no space in five years under Mr. Trudeau's

02:30:44.420 program. We want to give families the tools to make the best decision for the position they're

02:30:49.240 in now, to have ability to help them in their circumstances. Our plan will be immediate. It

02:30:55.280 will help all Canadian families. Mr. Singh, you're promising to tackle skyrocketing housing prices.

02:31:00.920 One of the ways is with that 20% tax on the sale of homes to foreign buyers, two-thirds of Canadian

02:31:06.600 families actually own a home already if you're successful at cooling the housing market that

02:31:11.920 would mean that people who have invested their life savings in their homes may not have it anymore

02:31:17.480 they're relying on that for their retirement so what is more important to you helping younger

02:31:21.940 people get access to the market or allowing older canadians who rely on the value of their homes

02:31:28.340 to live it's a really fair question and when i spoke to people i go door to door in my riding

02:31:35.800 at Burnaby, who people have got beautiful homes. I ask them, what's the number one concern? They

02:31:39.160 say housing. And I kind of look around at their house and say, well, you've got a home. They say,

02:31:42.600 well, I'm not worried for myself. I've got a place, but I'm worried about my kids.

02:31:46.400 And they're more concerned that their kids will never be able to find a home

02:31:50.080 than their own circumstances because they're okay. They are worried about their kids.

02:31:54.560 And the reality is it is impossible for young people to even imagine buying a home,

02:31:59.700 let alone renting a place that's in their budget. So we've got to get the big money out of housing,

02:32:04.200 Young people, young families, professionals shouldn't have to compete.

02:32:07.000 So your answer is that it is more important for young people to get into the housing market

02:32:10.320 rather than protect people who have equity in their home now?

02:32:12.680 We can do both.

02:32:13.340 And our plan is that everyone's telling us the number one concern they have for their kids

02:32:17.860 is that they're not sure they're ever going to be able to own a home.

02:32:20.640 We want to change that.

02:32:21.580 It's gotten worse with Mr. Trudeau.

02:32:23.160 We're going to fix it.

02:32:24.160 Thank you.

02:32:24.980 Mr. Blanchet, nice to see you, sir.

02:32:26.740 Seniors, as you were talking about off the top,

02:32:28.560 they're really worried about the increased cost of living.

02:32:30.900 you, as you said, have criticized the liberals

02:32:33.460 for increasing old-age security only for those 75 and older.

02:32:37.660 But statistics show time and again

02:32:39.980 that older seniors are less likely to have employment income

02:32:44.220 and they actually have higher health expenses. 0.94

02:32:47.080 So why should an increase in seniors go to all seniors

02:32:50.780 instead of those who need it most?

02:32:52.960 First, let's say that this prime minister

02:32:55.100 is supposed to be the champion

02:32:57.820 who fights against all kinds of discrimination,

02:33:01.780 and it did create himself two classes of elders, seniors.

02:33:07.320 What do you want is for those between 65 and 75

02:33:11.320 to spend their private funds in the meantime.

02:33:15.720 No, but I've just given you the example about why the government may have done that, sir.

02:33:21.220 It's because people who are 65 to 75, may I follow up, please,

02:33:25.860 that those people generally stay employed

02:33:28.420 and generally have fewer health costs.

02:33:31.780 Those people have worked all their lives

02:33:35.560 until 65 years old.

02:33:38.900 They have paid for a pension

02:33:40.520 that should be the same for everybody.

02:33:44.020 And for some financial issues,

02:33:47.020 the government creates two classes of seniors.

02:33:50.780 It is unacceptable and no calculation whatsoever

02:33:54.900 should be so unethical.

02:33:57.120 All right.

02:33:57.560 Thank you, Mr. Blanchet.

02:33:58.780 We are now moving to the open debate section.

02:34:01.140 I just have a question for Mr. Trudeau, I believe.

02:34:03.640 I'm very sorry.

02:34:04.460 If you don't mind.

02:34:04.740 I don't think we should let him off the hook.

02:34:06.000 I think we would all agree.

02:34:07.120 I got a little mixed up there.

02:34:08.540 I like the way you're making some of our arguments

02:34:09.480 from the other ones.

02:34:10.440 Well, we'll make you uncomfortable now, sir.

02:34:12.200 Here we go.

02:34:12.720 You said in 2019 that Canadians should never have to make the,

02:34:16.640 and these are your words,

02:34:17.640 impossible choice between paying for medications

02:34:20.260 or putting food on the table.

02:34:22.060 We have seen you, particularly in these recent months,

02:34:24.900 willing to spend billions of dollars on programs that matter to your government, daycare would

02:34:29.380 be another example of that. Why is there no money in your platform or in your most recent budget

02:34:34.980 for a national pharmacare program? Is it no longer a priority and should you not just tell Canadians

02:34:40.420 that sir? No, it continues to be a priority because indeed no one should have to choose

02:34:45.060 between paying for groceries and medications. On health investments, we were all focused on

02:34:51.940 COVID-19 and supporting the provinces and making sure that on that we were giving the support we

02:34:56.940 needed so we could have Canadians' backs. But at the same time, we worked with a number of

02:35:02.080 different jurisdictions, and we've actually signed with Prince Edward Island a national

02:35:08.280 universal pharmacare first step. You've signed one deal, sir, but there's nothing in your platform

02:35:13.920 in terms of costing. I understand the pandemic kept you busy. What about going forward? Why

02:35:18.520 Why wouldn't you put that in place?

02:35:19.520 Going forward, we are going to continue to, but we know that it's not something we did

02:35:24.340 with Prince Edward Island.

02:35:25.740 We're going to continue to do with others in respect of the provincial jurisdiction

02:35:30.280 that is delivery of healthcare.

02:35:32.020 We can't impose pharma care on a province that doesn't want it, unlike the NDP proposes.

02:35:37.200 We are going to work in partnership, as we have on so many things, to get it done like

02:35:41.900 we did on childcare.

02:35:42.900 Okay, and now we're going to move to open debate.

02:35:47.920 Okay, and we start here, I believe, with Mr. Blanchet.

02:35:51.920 That's correct.

02:35:52.920 So, Mr. Blanchet, what is one policy change

02:35:54.920 that you think would make the biggest difference

02:35:57.920 to Canadians or Quebecers, in your case,

02:36:00.920 in terms of their cost of living,

02:36:02.920 the one change that you would like to see

02:36:04.920 that would help them the most?

02:36:05.920 Cost of living, that's quite interesting

02:36:07.920 because that's a worry that we have.

02:36:09.920 We believe that the most important thing

02:36:13.920 is changing the way we create wealth.

02:36:16.920 We believe that transforming our own resources, natural resources, with our own clean energy in our regions of Quebec will create more wealth.

02:36:28.360 This wealth will come from an environmental, I will get this word, environmental preoccupation as well.

02:36:37.580 and we will do that and we should be entitled to do that with our part of the money that is being

02:36:43.240 sent again and again in oil and gas. There's one thing I want to add, even if it's not exactly,

02:36:51.340 I don't know if there's time eventually. Not really, but quickly, quickly, quickly. I will

02:36:55.400 take a few of those seconds. Yes. Will we have some seconds to speak about French-speaking

02:36:59.920 communities and Acadians? Well, not in this section. This is about cost of living, sir.

02:37:03.560 And to you, Mr. Singh.

02:37:04.980 It's nowhere.

02:37:05.360 That's my problem.

02:37:06.140 It's nowhere.

02:37:06.680 One of the things we know,

02:37:08.140 the cost of living has gone up.

02:37:09.460 The cost of medication is going up.

02:37:11.080 The cost of being able to afford the medication

02:37:12.800 that keeps you healthy.

02:37:14.060 Mr. Trudeau,

02:37:15.100 zero dollars in your fully-costed budget

02:37:17.660 means zero commitment to getting a diet.

02:37:19.920 You don't have a fully-costed platform.

02:37:20.880 Zero dollars,

02:37:21.780 but you've shown your evidence.

02:37:23.420 With your costed budget,

02:37:24.960 you've shown Canadians,

02:37:26.000 clearly,

02:37:26.860 you've got no interest in doing something.

02:37:28.320 You have no costs in your platform, Mr. Singh.

02:37:31.720 You promised to do it two years ago.

02:37:33.560 You committed, you campaigned on it, you included it in your throne speech,

02:37:37.620 and now you've completely abandoned it.

02:37:40.840 How can people trust any promise you make when there's zero dollars in your plan?

02:37:45.480 Okay, brief response, then Ms. Paul, then I'm coming to you, Mr. O'Toole.

02:37:49.960 $25 billion in our fully-costed platform for health for the priorities that Canadians have told us on.

02:37:57.900 Better support for seniors in care, better support for mental health services across the country,

02:38:02.620 particularly for young people, and access to a primary care doctor or team.

02:38:07.220 That is what $25 billion over the next four years gives.

02:38:11.300 Mr. O'Toole's money for health is backloaded to six, seven, eight, nine, ten years from now.

02:38:17.740 All right, Mr. Trudeau, thank you.

02:38:19.200 I'm reminded what the question was.

02:38:21.000 The question was what policy would have the biggest impact on people's cost of living?

02:38:25.460 Ms. Paul.

02:38:26.180 And I think that we have a perfect example of this again here,

02:38:29.800 because the biggest thing that could make a difference

02:38:32.300 in the cost of living for people

02:38:34.100 is a change in the culture in Ottawa.

02:38:37.540 It is so painful for me,

02:38:39.840 because I've had the experience of, again,

02:38:41.920 having my grandparents work until they were 75

02:38:44.580 and living six and 800 square feet

02:38:46.780 and wondering how we were going to feed ourselves some nights.

02:38:49.160 I've had that experience,

02:38:50.360 and I know that one day of delay is too much.

02:38:53.020 So when I think that we could have been in Parliament now,

02:38:56.660 working to get people the help that they need...

02:38:58.600 What is the policy, Ms. Paul?

02:38:59.600 These are anecdotes.

02:39:00.600 What is the policy with the question?

02:39:01.600 It's not an anecdote.

02:39:02.600 The thing that we need is a change in the culture.

02:39:05.600 I hear you.

02:39:06.600 I see you, Ms. O'Toole.

02:39:07.600 It's a change in the culture because there are several parties on this platform right

02:39:09.680 now that agree on guaranteed livable income and universal pharmacare and childcare.

02:39:14.600 My policy.

02:39:15.600 But it's always soon come.

02:39:16.600 It's always soon come.

02:39:17.600 All right.

02:39:18.600 Thank you, Ms. Paul.

02:39:19.600 Mr. O'Toole, you've been waiting.

02:39:20.600 I'm going to get you in.

02:39:21.600 We're doubling the Canadian workers' benefit.

02:39:22.600 That amounts to a dollar per hour raise for working families.

02:39:26.600 These are people working very hard.

02:39:28.360 And I respect whether they get up to work a shift in a restaurant or work to open their

02:39:33.460 small business.

02:39:34.460 We're going to have your back.

02:39:35.620 We're also going to get costs down. 0.97

02:39:37.480 We're the only party with a recovery plan that includes all Canadians.

02:39:42.380 And when it comes to cynicism that Mr. Trudeau talked about earlier, all of the commitments

02:39:47.500 continue to be a priority.

02:39:49.700 He's going to get to the calls to action.

02:39:51.900 He's going to have transparency.

02:39:53.900 He's going to make targets.

02:39:55.600 He announces things and never delivers.

02:39:58.480 Mr. Trudeau, a prime minister has to deliver on the words,

02:40:01.960 not just fancy words to make promises, a plan to get there.

02:40:06.180 By the way, Mr. O'Toole, I won't take lessons from you

02:40:09.560 on making promises and not following up.

02:40:11.840 You should take a few lessons, sir.

02:40:13.120 When we see you're beholden to the gun lobby,

02:40:14.220 we're beholden to anti-vaxxers, you're beholden to a range of people.

02:40:17.020 Remember, this is affordability, and Mr. Trudeau,

02:40:19.580 I'm sorry we're out of time now, sir.

02:40:21.440 I've been responding to people.

02:40:22.340 Can I answer Rosie's question directly?

02:40:24.120 You have five seconds, sir.

02:40:25.360 We were able to lift a million people out of poverty and create a million jobs at the same time with the right kinds of investments over the past five years.

02:40:33.620 And Mr. Trudeau, I have to I'm sorry, sir.

02:40:36.060 I have to wrap you right there because it is now time for our next theme on COVID recovery.

02:40:41.620 Rosie, thank you so much. Thank you very much.

02:40:43.800 Thanks.

02:40:44.100 okay from saskatchewan ethan herman is standing by in saskatoon he's an undecided voter and he

02:40:57.860 wants to hear from you about covid recovery hey ethan go ahead

02:41:02.340 hey good evening leaders my question is this

02:41:08.020 Coming out of this pandemic, how are you, if elected as Prime Minister, going to unify and drive Canada forward with respect to health care, jobs and the economy, and ensuring a higher quality of life is achievable for all Canadians, regardless of race, colour, creed, or sexual orientation?

02:41:28.020 All right, leaders, you've heard from Ethan. Mr. O'Toole, you're up first.

02:41:31.400 Thank you, Mr. Herman. That is exactly why I launched Canada's recovery plan on the first day of the campaign.

02:41:37.220 We're going to create a million jobs in one year.

02:41:39.720 We're going to clean up the accountability mess in Ottawa.

02:41:42.560 We're going to have national leadership on mental health.

02:41:45.320 We're going to be more ready for a pandemic, and we're going to get our finances under control.

02:41:49.100 I want to get people working.

02:41:50.920 I want to give families a break.

02:41:52.920 And since the moment I became Conservative leader, I've been reaching out.

02:41:57.040 Whatever your background, your faith, your colour, your sexual orientation, whether you're Indigenous, whether you're a new Canadian,

02:42:03.220 you're important to Canada's recovery and you're important to the Conservative Party and I'd ask

02:42:08.960 you to look at Canada's recovery plan after these 18 months as a country. We need a plan and a leader

02:42:15.540 that will actually deliver. Thank you, Ms. Paul. Thank you, Mr. Herman and I swear I did not line

02:42:22.200 up that question. He's not a ringer but this really comes to the heart of the matter which

02:42:27.720 is about changing the cultur of politics in Ottawa.

02:42:31.120 We have heard from outgoing MPs in the last parliament

02:42:34.360 how incredibly important that is,

02:42:36.600 that the cultur has become toxic,

02:42:38.900 that it has become hyper-partisan.

02:42:41.200 And, you know, there used to be a time...

02:42:43.400 I worked as an intern in a nonpartisan way

02:42:46.440 in the Ontario Legislature.

02:42:47.980 You know, you would make a fuss in question period,

02:42:50.080 and then you'd get to work across party lines and committees

02:42:53.080 to find the solutions to help people in Canada.

02:42:55.780 Canada. And so we need less partisanship. We need more diverse voices so that we can get the

02:43:01.820 access to the best ideas in a more cooperative and collaborative way. Mr. Singh. Thank you. Mr.

02:43:07.940 Herman, thank you for your question. And your question touched on a number of things. Healthcare

02:43:13.100 is something very near and dear to my heart. And we've seen in this pandemic that our healthcare

02:43:17.360 system simply hasn't been there. And it's not because of the pandemic. A lot of these problems

02:43:22.180 were there from before. So our commitment is to invest in our healthcare system, to defend it.

02:43:27.000 Unlike Mr. Trudeau and Mr. O'Toole, who believe in private long-term care delivery, we want to get

02:43:31.900 out profit, get out the greed from the delivery of long-term care. We want to invest in pharma

02:43:37.580 care for all, not promise it in 2019, and then have zero dollars to commit towards it. We want

02:43:42.980 to see everyone have access to medication. We want to include dental care into our healthcare system

02:43:47.640 and mental health services. And to do all that, we want to make sure that the billionaires are

02:43:52.060 paying their fair share so we can invest in you thank you mr singh mr trudeau ethan i think the

02:43:57.020 folks on this stage missed the very first part of your question which is you know once we get out

02:44:01.480 of this pandemic and yes we have plans for being even more ambitious on climate change and making

02:44:05.920 sure people get good jobs but we have to get out of this pandemic first and that's why the

02:44:11.580 unequivocal leadership that we've shown as a government on making sure that everyone gets

02:44:18.520 vaccinated is what's going to get us through. We cannot rebuild the economy until we get through

02:44:24.780 this pandemic. And unfortunately, Mr. O'Toole, who says he wants to get all of Canada vaccinated to

02:44:31.960 90% in the coming two months, can't even convince his own candidates to get vaccinated to 90%.

02:44:39.300 We have to get through this. We are unequivocal that vaccinations are the way to do it.

02:44:43.840 Thank you, Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Blanchette.

02:44:45.560 I think Mr. Trudeau forgot the second part of your question, which is about health care.

02:44:51.240 Let's be efficient.

02:44:53.360 Health care is a jurisdiction of the provinces and Quebec.

02:44:58.400 Those are the territories, the jurisdictions who should have the resources to do their job.

02:45:04.920 The promises of the conservatives is 3.5% of increase a year for the first three years,

02:45:11.360 which is very far from what the province has asked for.

02:45:15.900 And what the province has asked for is not even in the program of Mr. Trudeau.

02:45:20.800 So it will be hard to be efficient if those who are responsible of health care

02:45:25.520 do not have the resources which are owed to them.

02:45:29.340 Thank you, Mr. Blanchett.

02:45:30.800 Thanks, Ethan, for your question.

02:45:32.740 Have a good night.

02:45:33.500 We're going to let you go.

02:45:35.340 It is now time, Ms. Paul and Mr. Singh, to go face-to-face,

02:45:39.880 starting with Ms. Paul.

02:45:41.380 And I want to talk about Canada's parallel pandemic,

02:45:45.460 the opioid crisis.

02:45:47.320 Since it has taken hold,

02:45:49.220 more than 20,000 Canadians have died,

02:45:52.820 often in the shadows.

02:45:54.600 This is an insidious killer

02:45:56.400 that is tearing families apart.

02:45:59.100 To both of you, starting with Ms. Paul,

02:46:02.240 does the political will exist to confront it?

02:46:06.040 We called many times

02:46:08.040 during the last session of parliament,

02:46:10.080 across party lines, again, for us to first recognize

02:46:13.980 that this was a national health emergency,

02:46:17.220 and then to decriminalize simple possession,

02:46:20.780 because we know we need to end the stigma,

02:46:22.980 and create a national safe supply program.

02:46:25.900 We asked every party to do it,

02:46:27.420 because 17 lives, on average, are being lost every day.

02:46:30.760 We didn't hear anything from anyone.

02:46:32.760 And it comes back to Mr. Herman's question about unity.

02:46:35.940 Can we not unify on something like this where it's clear what we need to do?

02:46:40.540 If we can't do that, then none of these other things are possible.

02:46:44.160 And so that's what we have to try to do.

02:46:45.780 We definitely need to respond to this crisis with everything we have.

02:46:49.260 We've long called for it to be declared a national public health emergency.

02:46:53.060 And what we know is the approach that has been taken for decades simply doesn't work.

02:47:00.280 The approach of arresting someone, putting them through the criminal justice system,

02:47:04.880 putting them in jail does not make

02:47:06.680 communities safer, and it doesn't help people.

02:47:09.140 So we have been saying, and I believe

02:47:10.720 very firmly, we need to provide

02:47:12.340 health care responses to people that are

02:47:14.680 dealing with addiction. We need to make sure we are

02:47:16.640 doing everything we can to secure a safe supply.

02:47:19.220 We need to look at the evidence

02:47:20.680 and say really clearly,

02:47:22.660 if there is any step we can take that will

02:47:24.620 save lives, we've got to take it.

02:47:26.680 So there's a lot to do, but does the political

02:47:28.780 way exist to do it? That is exactly

02:47:30.700 the question. Is there the political

02:47:32.560 There doesn't seem to be, because we need a national safe supply program.

02:47:36.560 We wanted it before Parliament dissolved, and here we are.

02:47:39.560 And lives will be lost in my riding of Toronto Centre

02:47:42.560 probably today because of it.

02:47:43.580 Alright, Ms. Paul, I have to wrap you there.

02:47:45.580 It's good to hear, Mr. Singh, that it is at least coming from you.

02:47:48.580 Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Blanchette, Mr. O'Toole, this round to you.

02:47:53.580 Starting with Mr. Trudeau, during the pandemic,

02:47:57.560 Canadians watched in horror the suffering

02:48:01.560 suffering of their most vulnerable and frail loved ones in long-term care. What if tomorrow

02:48:08.960 you had to place a family member in a long-term care facility? Would you do it? Beginning with

02:48:15.980 you, Mr. Trudeau, Mr. O'Toole, Mr. Blanchett, you may jump in. Tomorrow is my mom's 73rd birthday,

02:48:21.380 so that is certainly something we're reflecting on, but she's doing wonderfully right now. We

02:48:25.420 won't have to make that decision right now. Don't worry, mom. The reality is we've heard from seniors

02:48:30.300 across this country who have been tremendously worried

02:48:33.220 through this pandemic, and family members worried about that.

02:48:35.840 We know that the conditions of work for the people

02:48:38.860 who are in those long-term care homes

02:48:40.960 are often dictating the conditions of care for seniors,

02:48:44.220 which is why we propose to hire 50,000 new personal support workers

02:48:51.100 working with the provinces with the money for that,

02:48:53.660 also increasing the minimum salary to $25 an hour

02:48:57.500 for people who care for our elders and most vulnerable

02:49:00.080 So if you had to put mom in long-term care, you would do it?

02:49:03.020 I would make sure that, yes, that they are people who are properly well-cared and that there is enough of a proportionate.

02:49:10.220 And that's where we will work with the provinces to deliver exactly that because we put real money forward for that.

02:49:16.940 Thank you, Mr. Trudeau, Mr. O'Toole.

02:49:18.320 This is where we need partnerships for long-term care for the CHSLD in Quebec.

02:49:22.940 We're going to have a $3 billion fund that the provinces can draw on for infrastructure upgrades to long-term care.

02:49:28.320 That's in addition to our record, almost $60 billion commitment over 10 years to the public health care system.

02:49:35.320 Universal access with no conditions.

02:49:37.480 We need to partner with the provinces, not create fights.

02:49:41.020 And long-term care, learning from the gaps in the first part of this pandemic is something we need.

02:49:46.260 Would you put a loved one in long-term care tomorrow, Mr. O'Toole?

02:49:49.020 I have a grandmother in one, and we've been in touch with her.

02:49:52.320 But I have to touch on what Mr. Trudeau said about the recovery.

02:49:55.500 We have to get through the pandemic first.

02:49:57.260 Why did you not have that approach to the election, Mr. Trudeau?

02:50:00.620 We're in the fourth wave.

02:50:02.100 Everything in the recovery relates to getting out of the pandemic first.

02:50:05.380 Mr. Blanchet, I'm going to let Mr. Blanchet in.

02:50:09.460 You have had four minutes more than I did.

02:50:12.580 So now I think it's enough.

02:50:13.860 The debate is almost over.

02:50:15.740 Some dads and some moms don't have to worry.

02:50:19.900 They will have the money, of course.

02:50:22.180 Some do.

02:50:22.800 And in order to give them the care they need, the care they deserve, those responsible for those cares, provinces and Quebec should have without conditions because it is their responsibility, their knowledge, their expertise, the resources required.

02:50:45.060 When the army came in Quebec, they did, they wrote a report afterward.

02:50:49.460 What did they say?

02:50:50.340 They did not say Quebec is not good enough to take care of its seniors.

02:50:55.840 They said they lacked resources.

02:50:59.480 They lacked the money.

02:51:00.880 Thank you, Mr. Blanchet, leaders.

02:51:03.400 We are starting to get out.

02:51:05.520 We're running out of time.

02:51:06.800 I am sorry.

02:51:07.600 I am sorry, Mr. Trudeau.

02:51:08.880 You've had the most time tonight.

02:51:10.340 I'm sorry, Mr. Trudeau.

02:51:11.480 We are now moving on to our final journalist of the night.

02:51:15.160 I am welcoming Evan Solomon from CTV News.

02:51:18.380 He's going to be putting questions to you on COVID recovery, starting with Mr. Singh.

02:51:23.020 Hey, Evan.

02:51:23.680 Hi, Shachi, and hi, leaders.

02:51:25.360 Good to see all of you.

02:51:27.220 Mr. Singh, I'll start with you, sir.

02:51:29.400 Your pandemic recovery plan is uncoasted.

02:51:32.360 You have no plan to balance the books, but you promised to pay for your expensive promises.

02:51:37.060 New programs like Universal Dental Care with Taxing the Super Rich and Taxing Corporations.

02:51:42.100 What specifically would you do to create the 1 million jobs you're promising and make sure Canada stays competitive?

02:51:50.760 We have the only credible plan that's not going to cut help to Canadians, that's not going to put the burden back on the same people that have struggled.

02:51:59.220 We're the only ones on this debate table that I can say clearly, we would tax the billionaires.

02:52:04.840 We would make sure companies like Amazon start paying their fair share so we can invest in those new jobs, so we can invest in people.

02:52:12.100 left to Mr. Trudeau or Mr. O'Toole, they are going to put the burden back on you. They've

02:52:16.560 already started. Mr. Trudeau has already started by cutting the CRE, cutting help to people.

02:52:21.380 But what new programs, sir, specifically? Well, I believe in making sure we invest

02:52:24.960 in pharmacare, we invest in dental care, we invest in retrofitting homes and buildings.

02:52:29.700 In doing this, we're going to lower the cost of living, help people save money,

02:52:33.280 but also create jobs by investing in the future economy, the economy of the future.

02:52:37.640 All right. Mr. Trudeau, to you. Only four months ago, you released a budget that was billed as a pandemic recovery program, a plan that had $101 billion of new spending. Since then, COVID numbers are up, growth numbers are down. Now you've got a new plan that adds $78 billion of new spending, essentially rendering your last budget out of date.

02:52:57.700 How do Canadians trust that these new massive spending promises will not just keep growing in another few months?

02:53:04.080 And what do you say to the next generation who say, how are we going to pay for this?

02:53:08.320 First of all, I made a promise during this pandemic to have people's backs.

02:53:11.900 Every time I came out of my house early on in the pandemic to talk directly to Canadians, I told them, I'd be there for you.

02:53:18.160 And that's exactly what we've done.

02:53:19.840 And it wasn't just being there for people because we're nice, although, of course, we are.

02:53:24.120 It was being there because that is the best way to ensure a strong recovery.

02:53:29.560 Now, yes, our budget showed our ambition for this country, including with $10 a day childcare that Mr. O'Toole is planning on ripping up.

02:53:36.800 But it also shows a responsible fiscal track.

02:53:40.400 And even with our fully costed platform that is even more ambitious on the fight against climate change, on housing, on supports for people,

02:53:48.380 the debt of our country as proportion of the GDP continues to decrease.

02:53:54.600 Yes or no? Is it important to have a plan to balance the budget because you don't have one?

02:53:57.640 It is important to stay fiscally responsible. And that's what we're doing. Our debt continues

02:54:01.840 to decrease as a share of our GDP. Ms. Paul, to you now, you have not been clear if you support

02:54:08.480 the need for vaccine passports or mandatory vaccines for federal workers or even mandatory

02:54:13.520 vaccines for your own candidates. Given that the fourth wave is really a pandemic of the

02:54:17.880 unvaccinated and threatening to overwhelm many health care systems, how do you justify not

02:54:23.600 supporting the very measures that have proven to be most effective at increasing vaccination rates?

02:54:29.560 Evan, we just filmed a video today asking everyone to get vaccinated. We have been unequivocal

02:54:34.500 in our support for vaccinations. Mandatory vaccinations and vaccine passports.

02:54:41.000 Well, again, you know, this is just a, you know,

02:54:44.280 this is, again, where policy gets put aside

02:54:48.540 for partisan advantage

02:54:50.220 because there is everyone on this stage understands

02:54:53.440 that everyone who can be vaccinated should be vaccinated.

02:54:57.140 We need to encourage people to do it.

02:54:58.740 Vaccine saves lives.

02:55:00.000 And every single person on the stage has also said

02:55:02.540 that, of course, there are going to be people

02:55:04.420 who are not able to get vaccinated for certain reasons,

02:55:07.320 and we have to reasonably accommodate them.

02:55:09.300 We will always be guided by the science.

02:55:11.840 We will never put partisan concerns ahead of public health.

02:55:15.720 Mr. O'Toole, you promised a $60 billion increase in health care transfers over the next 10 years,

02:55:21.880 but according to the Independent Parliamentary Budget Officer,

02:55:24.620 it's actually only a transfer of $3.6 billion for the next five years,

02:55:29.360 which is not much different than the status quo.

02:55:31.500 But you also support private-public synergies, in your words.

02:55:34.720 Can you specify here tonight exactly what kinds of private health care innovations you want to see more of?

02:55:41.220 And if a province introduces more private health care, would you enforce the Canada Health Act by holding back any of your promised funding?

02:55:50.060 I 100 percent support our public and universal system.

02:55:54.060 I've said it's paramount.

02:55:55.680 And after COVID-19, we need to rebuild it.

02:55:58.100 So we have the most substantive plan to do that.

02:56:01.080 6% increase per year, stable, predictable, without conditions funding to partner with

02:56:07.700 our provinces. We will respect them running and putting priorities to get wait times down,

02:56:13.760 to give more choice for universal public access. That's what we need. On top of that, Evan,

02:56:20.040 we have a substantial commitment in mental health and treatment for addiction. There are going to

02:56:25.240 be lingering aspects from this pandemic that we're going to do in addition. The provinces are in

02:56:31.240 charge of their system. We will respect that. Public and universal elements need to be at the

02:56:36.800 core of our system, and our investments will save it and give relief to front lines like our nurses,

02:56:42.980 physicians. Mr. Trudeau doesn't hire those people. All right, we got to wrap you, Mr. O'Toole.

02:56:48.200 Mr. Blanchet, Quebec has relied on the federal government for life-saving vaccines and key

02:56:53.340 programs like the CERD, and as you mentioned, the Canadian Armed Forces came in to save

02:56:57.120 people in long-term care homes in the province of Quebec.

02:57:00.660 Some believe this crisis has enforced the argument for a strong federation and undermines

02:57:05.460 your fundamental argument of separatism.

02:57:08.200 Given that, if the federal government, say, gives billion dollars for long-term care homes,

02:57:12.620 which Quebec failed to protect, why should they not also enforce national standards?

02:57:19.380 I have still not heard from all those brilliant people all over the place and all over Canada

02:57:26.520 what a Canadian can do that a Quebecer cannot do.

02:57:30.380 In what way whatsoever would a Canadian norm be any better than a Quebec norm?

02:57:38.040 I don't see that, and I'm not, you know, I don't have this complex.

02:57:41.380 I don't feel that I'm any lesser person than a Canadian because I'm a Quebecer.

02:57:45.920 I'm asking about enforcing national standards.

02:57:46.740 If you pay for something, should you be able to enforce it?

02:57:48.920 National norms or standards.

02:57:52.360 And I would say that the premier Legault of Quebec today said

02:57:55.920 no one is to be entirely trusted in this group of people.

02:58:00.520 Some are worse than others.

02:58:01.800 I think they recognize themselves.

02:58:03.600 But even those who are a little bit less terrible

02:58:07.120 need a watchdog because they're not entitled to a majority government.

02:58:11.400 So if Quebecers want, I will lead the watchdogs.

02:58:14.540 Okay.

02:58:15.440 This is the open debate section.

02:58:17.740 And I'll start with you, Mr. O'Toole, but everyone, please jump in, not all at once.

02:58:22.380 The pandemic recovery is about the future path of Canada.

02:58:25.680 And all of the leaders here tonight have made promises that require historic levels of spending.

02:58:31.000 But as you all know, politics is about hard choices.

02:58:33.260 With some Canadians still in real need of support and other industries experiencing real labour shortages,

02:58:40.200 What specific programs will stay and what will go in the next year and who will pay for all of this?

02:58:47.640 Mr. O'Toole.

02:58:48.280 That's a great question, Evan, because we didn't see the government adapt to the changing crisis.

02:58:54.420 What we support and we all work together, the wage subsidy, the CERB, needed to be adapted as there were labor shortages in Quebec, as we can't find enough people for restaurants and service industries.

02:59:04.940 We need to target the highly impacted sectors.

02:59:08.000 That's what our plan, Canada's Recovery Plan, does.

02:59:10.460 We get those service, tourism, restaurants back on their feet, get people working,

02:59:16.380 and with keeping cases low, we can then wind down the other programs

02:59:20.760 because we need to focus on work.

02:59:22.400 We have a job boost that will actually incentivize the hiring of people

02:59:26.520 that are going out of work for 10 months or more.

02:59:30.060 Mr. O'Toole and Mr. Trudeau are jumping over each other

02:59:33.320 about who is going to cut help to people first.

02:59:36.540 I don't agree with that.

02:59:37.580 approach i don't think it makes sense to say oh i'm going to have people's back but i'm going to

02:59:42.180 cut as quickly as i can i'm going to cut the help to people who need it as much as they can

02:59:46.680 we're the only party right here clearly is going to say to you you're not going to have to pay more

02:59:51.420 we're not going to cut any programs we're going to ask the 44 we're giving working

02:59:55.960 we're going to ask the 44 richest billionaires pay their fair share for months that's what we're

03:00:02.780 going to do respond to that because this is the second time that mr singh has said we're the only

03:00:06.800 party where you know just us um mr singh you know that's hold on mr singh unless you're trying to

03:00:12.120 ghost me you know that you're also okay sure so yes as well okay thank you thank you all right

03:00:17.880 mr trudeau you're trying to get in mr singh continues to pretend that it makes no difference

03:00:22.900 whether there is a progressive government or a conservative or progressive government or a

03:00:27.780 conservative government we know that it makes a huge difference to families whether they have

03:00:34.800 $10 a day child care, whether they have a government that has their back, a government

03:00:38.680 that has a plan to move beyond the Harper targets on fighting climate change.

03:00:43.060 Now, Mr. Singh may feel that for the NDP, it makes no difference who forms government.

03:00:48.340 I know for Canadian...

03:00:49.660 Mr. Blanchet, you haven't been in yet.

03:00:53.000 Mr. Blanchet.

03:00:55.840 Wage subsidy.

03:00:56.980 Wage subsidy.

03:00:58.480 Did any of you three guys refund the wage subsidy that you received up to about $3 million?

03:01:04.800 That would be something, at least for the principal.

03:01:07.760 After that, there's an important issue, labor shortage.

03:01:11.880 They are promising jobs.

03:01:13.480 They should be promising workers.

03:01:15.520 We need people to work.

03:01:18.120 And that raises the question of productivity.

03:01:21.220 This is the most important issue.

03:01:23.040 And some programs should be turned toward that issue.

03:01:27.500 Mr. O'Toole.

03:01:28.320 In this pandemic election that Mr. Trudeau called after everyone asked him not to,

03:01:32.400 He says he doesn't worry about monetary policy and inflation.

03:01:36.120 Now he's saying he doesn't ever intend to balance the budget.

03:01:39.520 He's spending $424 million a day more than Canada's bringing in.

03:01:45.020 The question was, what programs will stay?

03:01:46.960 We need to wind down the support programs in a fair way and get the country working again.

03:01:52.140 We have got to remember.

03:01:52.680 Thank you.

03:01:53.660 Last minute of play, leaders.

03:01:56.100 Last minute of play.

03:01:57.180 Ms. Paul, five seconds to you.

03:01:59.080 I'm coming to you.

03:01:59.880 Ms. Paul.

03:02:00.220 Thank you.

03:02:00.480 We have got to remember the pandemic is not over.

03:02:03.300 And all over this country, people still need the benefits.

03:02:05.840 They should be there until the pandemic is over.

03:02:08.680 And to the people of Canada, it is unfortunate we are in this election.

03:02:12.200 You can see that there is a lot of work left to do.

03:02:14.520 We need to get back to doing it in a more cooperative way.

03:02:17.280 Okay, thank you, Ms. Paul.

03:02:17.740 Mr. Singh, I see you, Mr. Trudeau.

03:02:19.380 Mr. Singh.

03:02:19.940 One of the specific programs we demanded 22 times in Parliament for Mr. Trudeau to expand

03:02:25.900 was paid sick leave.

03:02:27.180 Because in this pandemic, people had to make the impossible choice going into work sick

03:02:31.980 or not being able to because they couldn't pay their bills.

03:02:35.480 22 times over 18 months, we demanded an expansion.

03:02:40.160 And Mr. Trudeau said no to you and said no to your family.

03:02:42.600 We are actually expanding sick leave to 10 days of paid sick leave for federal industries.

03:02:47.320 Now, in the election, and this is important, you have seen tonight the extreme differences

03:02:52.760 between the perspectives of these parties.

03:02:54.720 We need Canadians to make the right choice so we can move forward together.

03:03:00.000 We're out of time.

03:03:00.800 Evan, thank you.

03:03:02.120 Leaders, thank you for your participation tonight.

03:03:05.100 That's it for the English language leaders debate.

03:03:08.400 Voting day is September 20th.

03:03:11.100 Get your ballots.

03:03:12.660 Make sure you're registered on behalf of the leaders debate consortium.

03:03:17.600 I want to thank the crew, the producers, everyone who made this happen.

03:03:21.580 I'm Shachi Curl.

03:03:23.060 Good night.

03:03:23.600 Good night.

03:03:24.720 Good night.

03:03:25.520 Thank you.

03:03:29.400 True North's live debate night show.

03:03:32.060 I'm your host, Candice Malcolm.

03:03:33.300 Thank you so much for staying with us.

03:03:35.240 That was a long two hours.

03:03:37.860 I thought it was pretty much a train wreck.

03:03:40.420 I mean, the issues that they touched at the beginning of the debate,

03:03:43.540 the first hour, maybe even the first hour and a half,

03:03:46.220 were things that just didn't really matter to Canadians.

03:03:48.640 It felt like it was special interest groups.

03:03:50.780 It was niche issues, really going down rabbit holes,

03:03:53.560 talking about things like universal basic income and just all kinds of issues that don't really

03:03:59.240 resonate to canadians we didn't get to the meat the crux of the debate the important issues at

03:04:06.040 least from my perspective until the last what half an hour and by then i can't imagine anybody

03:04:10.600 stayed on it i thought that that was a horribly run debate as far as the leader's performance

03:04:15.880 trudeau to me seemed really on edge really angry really irritated i know he has his sort of tricks

03:04:21.800 and his style that he uses and that he sort of gets applauded for by the, you know, Laurentian

03:04:28.340 elite journalists on social media. But tonight, I just felt like everything was falling flat.

03:04:33.600 I thought that Aaron O'Toole came out pretty strong and then just sort of faded away. He

03:04:37.800 didn't really have much of an impact throughout the rest of the debate. I felt like Jagmeet

03:04:42.160 Singh did a pretty good job as well. But there were so many times when, you know, it would be

03:04:46.260 like Trudeau and O'Toole talking about an issue. And then instead of like letting the two of them

03:04:50.940 go on, or Trudeau would say something, and instead of going back to a tool, the moderator

03:04:54.840 would jump in and give the spotlight to Blanchette or Anna May Paul, and it's like, we don't

03:05:00.760 really care what they have to say.

03:05:01.940 I mean, those are sort of my observations from the top.

03:05:05.640 I'll let either of you jump in.

03:05:07.120 Well, I don't think Anna May Paul, and although I thought she handled questions very well,

03:05:11.700 I don't think she should have been in the debate, and definitely not Blanchette.

03:05:15.260 I mean, it was just a total waste of airtime, and I agree with you.

03:05:19.780 You said right at the beginning that he has no interest in becoming prime minister.

03:05:22.500 No.

03:05:22.800 It's like, why are you here then?

03:05:23.900 I mean, what a waste.

03:05:25.120 They should have just had the three leaders, leading leaders, going head to head.

03:05:30.180 And I agree with you.

03:05:31.800 I mean, it was, I think people, they lost people after the first hour because they only

03:05:37.160 talked about basically social justice issues.

03:05:39.900 And that indigenous reporter who just asked repeatedly about...

03:05:43.840 She wasn't really a reporter.

03:05:44.460 She felt like an activist.

03:05:45.420 She was really, she had her opinions.

03:05:47.180 And look, obviously that stuff is important.

03:05:48.640 and I think that it should be covered in a debate.

03:05:51.520 We should talk about it maybe for two or three minutes.

03:05:54.520 Forty-five?

03:05:55.100 We spent a lot of time on that issue,

03:05:56.940 and we were really driving home very special, very niche issues.

03:06:00.500 And again, it is important to some people,

03:06:03.460 but this is a national debate.

03:06:05.000 It's the only English debate we have.

03:06:06.860 We didn't talk about the economy or jobs at all

03:06:09.400 in the first, I think, hour and a half of the debate.

03:06:10.980 I remember when we, you know, before the pre-show,

03:06:14.700 where I said, you know, you have to connect with people at the grassroots level.

03:06:19.940 People's concerns about affordability, about housing, about the economy, coming back from COVID.

03:06:26.180 To jam that into a half an hour was just absolutely shameful from my perspective.

03:06:32.180 Yeah, and, you know, everything we've always seen when you look at the viewing habits in these debates

03:06:36.860 is people tune out after the first 15 or 20 minutes.

03:06:39.440 And the first 15 or 20 minutes is this real sort of grab bag of issues under the rubric

03:06:46.160 of leadership.

03:06:47.160 There was some foreign affairs stuff in there, which I thought was nice to hear, was unexpected

03:06:50.600 and positive, but then it would sort of veer to something completely different.

03:06:54.340 And then affordability, which the media has been telling us nonstop is the issue of the

03:06:57.480 election, turns up at the end.

03:06:59.400 And then on top of it, they had this really, the format was so bizarre in that you had

03:07:04.580 this situation where the moderator kept on going back to making sure that all five of

03:07:09.000 the of the leaders got a fair enough say or at least were able to jump in but there was enough

03:07:13.720 leeway that if a leader wanted to push through they could get more and more time Blanche at one

03:07:18.200 point complained that Trudeau had spoken for four more minutes than him um which you know makes

03:07:23.240 sense in that one of those guys is running for prime minister and that really allowed i think

03:07:28.240 it really allowed um saying to sort of use the format to his advantage that he just jumped in

03:07:33.480 all the time and everybody else kind of deferred to him and let him push through so especially in

03:07:39.500 the you know the sort of last two-thirds of the debate it was really the Jagmeet Singh show now

03:07:43.860 I don't think he's saying anything radically different the interesting thing is the NDP

03:07:47.920 campaign in this election seems to be doing something they were not interested in doing

03:07:51.620 not been interested in the past which is attack Justin Trudeau from the left um we'll see if it

03:07:56.800 has any impact but Singh's in a battle to to hold on to his vote right we saw we saw on the poll we

03:08:02.500 talked about earlier today, Candace, that as many as 20% of NDP and Green voters say they are very

03:08:10.780 likely to vote Liberal to stop the Conservatives from winning. If Singh loses those votes, he's

03:08:15.120 going to be right back down to more or less what he got in the last election. So he's got to show

03:08:19.960 to those people that you can't just vote Liberal. That's really what it was about for him. We'll see

03:08:23.820 over the next week whether he's successful or not. Well, I agree that Singh did a good job. He

03:08:27.460 showed his personality, kind of came through, and you're right, he jumped in in ways that I wish

03:08:31.560 Erin O'Toole would kind of push back more and part of it again was the moderator because a lot of

03:08:35.640 times it would be like you know they do the two person back and forth and they wouldn't she wouldn't

03:08:41.140 let the person respond and then she would just randomly go to someone else look I like I kind

03:08:45.020 of like anime Paul I think that she has a nice personality she actually had some really strong

03:08:49.780 moments in the campaign and she called Trudeau out for being a fake feminist right to your point 0.91

03:08:54.600 Hamish right in the beginning when everyone was paying attention and she talked about Jodie 0.98

03:08:58.060 Wilson-Raybould. I thought that was devastating to Trudeau because he couldn't really say anything.

03:09:01.740 He didn't have anything to go back on. And so I don't begrudge her, but a lot of times she just

03:09:06.920 wasn't really relevant to the conversation. I wanted to see more Trudeau versus O'Toole.

03:09:11.660 And again, I thought that O'Toole really, in this one, earlier in the pre-show, I was complaining

03:09:16.300 that in last night's French debate, I felt like there was just too much. They all agreed and

03:09:21.040 there wasn't really a lot of interesting divergence of views. I felt differently tonight.

03:09:26.120 I felt like Aaron O'Toole did a better job defending conservatism, that there were a few moments where he really was pushing back against this sort of mainstream narrative.

03:09:34.420 But I just felt that overall, the debate just missed the mark in terms of the issues that Canadians care about.

03:09:41.040 Like, we're in the middle of a pandemic.

03:09:42.820 We have all these issues with small business owners, with people not being able to find employees,

03:09:48.500 for people worried about the future of their industry, particularly folks in Western Canada.

03:09:53.320 And I feel like none of that.

03:09:54.500 I felt like that was an Ottawa debate.

03:09:56.140 It wasn't a Canadian debate.

03:09:57.560 It was a very, very Ottawa-centric debate.

03:10:00.320 It was an activist debate.

03:10:02.180 And, I mean, it was so far from the experience of the people that you talk to on the streets

03:10:09.640 or the people that I've encountered at doors in Midtown Toronto.

03:10:15.260 They're not talking about, you know, other than a couple of minutes,

03:10:19.240 they're not talking about indigenous issues and they're not talking about climate change that is

03:10:25.080 so yesterday i mean we have to be concerned about it obviously but they're thinking about how do

03:10:32.440 they come out of this pandemic whole how do they deal with their life that has been turned upside

03:10:39.160 down many many lives have been turned upside down it's funny because at one moment in the debate

03:10:44.680 they said that to many Canadians this is the climate change election and I felt like that

03:10:49.240 was so out of touch I was like you know I felt like climate change was a really really big issue

03:10:53.480 maybe like five years ago when people were first starting to kind of debate it it was a big issue

03:10:58.200 for liberals when Trump became president because he had in the past said that he thought it was a

03:11:02.440 hoax and so it was really important in that moment in the sort of Paris context but that that moment

03:11:08.040 is not this moment not to completely contradict you but as we saw in our poll climate change is

03:11:12.600 the number one issue for liberals so when they say that when they're saying it's a big issue for

03:11:17.720 canadians it's a big issue for liberals we saw that people who are voting conservative it's much

03:11:22.360 much lower on the list of priorities and undecided voters it's much lower than a list of priorities

03:11:26.840 so you know it goes to your point that this was a debate amongst for all the topics that people in

03:11:31.960 that that you know that bubble that bubble in ottawa care about and the people they talk to

03:11:37.000 right well and it's funny because even though they had representatives and voices from across

03:11:41.320 the country, the people all echoed the same sort of sound that, like, I'm sorry, you know,

03:11:46.480 they had a guy who asked a question from Saskatchewan. He didn't sound like people from Saskatchewan

03:11:50.060 I know. Like, he just, I felt like the issues that they chose, the way that the debate was

03:11:54.060 framed, even the format and how they had it, I think that Canadians are so much better.

03:12:00.380 This is the only English debate. It's the only opportunity that we have to see the leaders,

03:12:04.120 given the way that Justin Trudeau just doesn't really answer questions, he doesn't really,

03:12:08.260 And we're about to see it.

03:12:09.260 We're going to go to the scrums in a few minutes here when they start.

03:12:13.420 But the idea that Trudeau doesn't really answer questions even though he has the adoring love

03:12:20.160 of the journalists who he speaks to.

03:12:22.700 And you can see the back and forth.

03:12:24.160 There's been a couple moments in this campaign where Trudeau has just unabashedly talked

03:12:28.880 about how much he loves the journalists and how brave they are and how amazing they are

03:12:32.760 and just totally, totally sucking up to them.

03:12:35.840 you know, you see the reciprocity in the way that they treat him, the softball question. So we don't 0.97

03:12:40.560 really ever get to see Trudeau back up against his wall, making him explain his positions and

03:12:46.800 sort of calling him out for his bad behavior. It was great to see Anna Mae Paul do that. There

03:12:51.120 were a couple moments where Aaron O'Toole certainly had him, you know, about the two Michaels or

03:12:57.260 talking about Kabul. I felt like the foreign policy stuff, again, was a real strong suit

03:13:01.400 for O'Toole, but, I mean, this is it.

03:13:04.200 I mean, we're going to the polls, what, a week, Monday?

03:13:06.740 Well, no, actually, advanced polls open tomorrow morning.

03:13:09.840 You know, millions of Canadians are going to start voting tomorrow.

03:13:13.520 So, you know, the elections, you know,

03:13:15.240 the voting is happening in big, big numbers.

03:13:18.040 And, you know, I think, you know,

03:13:19.600 if people were tuning into this debate to see,

03:13:22.980 hold on, Aaron O'Toole could win the election,

03:13:24.740 what's the deal with Aaron O'Toole?

03:13:26.040 Which I think would be a normal thing

03:13:27.280 for a lot of undecided Canadians at this point.

03:13:29.100 We're trying to make that decision between Trudeau and O'Toole.

03:13:32.460 I don't think they got a particularly good answer to that.

03:13:35.340 And I think it's primarily the fault of the format

03:13:37.760 that didn't really allow Canadians to see the choice that actually matters.

03:13:42.280 Who cares about Blanchette having a debate with Paul

03:13:47.040 or Singh about something in English Canada?

03:13:49.400 Well, that's exactly it, because that was the thing that I heard, again,

03:13:54.520 at the doors, is that they were waiting to see.

03:13:56.760 A lot of undecideds said they were waiting to see how the leaders handled themselves in the debate.

03:14:01.800 Oh, really?

03:14:02.480 Which is the idea of a debate.

03:14:03.740 That's why we're doing them.

03:14:04.640 But, I mean, they were, I mean, these people at the doors would be grossly let down

03:14:08.500 because I would imagine that they were looking for the issues that struck them near and dear to the heart

03:14:16.520 and big one being affordability.

03:14:19.500 And why would you leave that to the last couple of questions and then jam it in?

03:14:24.120 In fact, I thought it was supposed to be evenly divided, and the last 10 minutes was left to COVID recovery.

03:14:32.300 Well, my goodness, we've been living through 18 months of lockdowns and vaccine screw-ups and all kinds of stuff.

03:14:40.420 I cannot believe that they didn't have that right off the top.

03:14:43.200 Did they even ask any questions about government debt, government spending?

03:14:46.280 Is that something that we just decided we don't care about anymore?

03:14:48.580 I can't help but wonder if this was kind of framed to help Mr. Trudeau, the Prime Minister.

03:14:57.200 Of course, this is a question I'm sort of wondering is, Trudeau has had a spectacular fall from grace in this election.

03:15:04.060 He was really going in thinking he was going to get a majority.

03:15:06.640 He was riding high in the polls.

03:15:08.280 And it has been a big surprise.

03:15:09.540 I'm sure he really regrets calling this election.

03:15:11.500 I honestly think that he is up at night thinking, oh, my goodness, I could lose the prime ministership.

03:15:16.520 This could be all over for me.

03:15:18.140 And I kind of wonder, you know, he has a week to turn things around.

03:15:21.440 Did he do that tonight?

03:15:22.500 Because from my perspective, and I know I don't see Trudeau.

03:15:25.600 You were saying, Hamish, that you either love Trudeau or you hate him.

03:15:28.400 And I obviously don't fall in that first category.

03:15:30.720 I have a hard time really trying to figure out what it is that people see in Trudeau.

03:15:35.500 But, you know, seeing his performance, I noted on Twitter that maybe it was hot in that room

03:15:39.540 because he seemed like he was really red.

03:15:41.040 He seemed frazzled.

03:15:42.000 He seemed angry.

03:15:43.020 He didn't seem to perform in the way that he needed to from my perspective

03:15:46.700 in order to sort of recapture the imagination of the country.

03:15:49.760 I don't really know what he's running on

03:15:51.580 in terms of like, you know,

03:15:52.920 what his big ideas are for his next term.

03:15:55.480 I don't really know what the ballot question is for him

03:15:58.020 other than just, hey, I've been doing a good job.

03:16:00.020 Don't you think I deserve a majority?

03:16:01.260 And it's pretty clear that Canadians aren't saying that.

03:16:03.220 So I was kind of expecting a better performance from him.

03:16:05.680 I was expecting some big lines,

03:16:07.180 some of his sort of like, you know,

03:16:09.080 liberals go back to their greatest hits.

03:16:10.580 And instead, I just saw like a lot of negativity,

03:16:13.820 a lot of sort of franticness, fast talking,

03:16:16.700 angry. It didn't seem like Trudeau was having a good night from my perspective.

03:16:21.060 Yeah, I don't think he turned off anybody who already liked him, though. I agree. I don't think

03:16:26.440 it was a winning performance that he picked up a ton of extra votes. But I don't think he turned

03:16:30.940 anybody off. And often the incumbent gets a bit of an advantage, a bit of the devil you know. And

03:16:35.980 if it's choice for people who are trying to decide between the devil you know and somebody new,

03:16:39.860 the incumbent gets a bit of leeway. So I'm not sure, you know, for me, this debate was the big

03:16:45.300 big opportunity for Aaron O'Toole to show he was

03:16:47.420 a Prime Minister, to show all those people

03:16:49.520 who are saying, ah, maybe who are saying

03:16:51.440 they're voting Conservative but they're not entirely

03:16:53.380 sure yet, or people who are wavering

03:16:55.560 about it. And

03:16:56.940 I don't think he really got the chance to do that.

03:16:59.860 So does that, you know, it doesn't

03:17:01.540 matter that Truro's performance wasn't as

03:17:03.440 strong as it could have been?

03:17:05.120 Maybe it's all he needs to do.

03:17:07.120 We'll see, but I think

03:17:09.480 the, you know, I think the

03:17:11.400 format really

03:17:12.360 did not help canadians make that decision i think there's too much noise yeah from the others just

03:17:19.280 too much noise too many questions not organized i think things were thrown out there uh it was

03:17:28.080 it was a hot mess talk about hot mess it really was and i i wouldn't be able if i were undecided

03:17:34.700 i wouldn't be able to decide from tonight right and and again you know it was both too long and

03:17:40.380 too short, right? Because it was like, this was the only opportunity we had in English to see

03:17:44.660 the leaders together. And yet it dragged on so long. It was hard to watch. I'm a political junkie.

03:17:50.660 You know, I'm going to watch this stuff all the time. And I just, I was like, are they still

03:17:54.560 talking about climate change? Why are they still talking about climate change? And it just, I felt

03:17:58.580 like they just lost the room. They lost the country. Like this is not what people care about.

03:18:03.580 And then we were talking about the format, like what would have been, Rex Murphy had a great piece

03:18:08.260 in national post yesterday about how we would have just been much better served to have smaller

03:18:13.140 debates in each region you know go to british columbia get a bunch of journalists from vancouver

03:18:18.100 or victoria and get them to ask questions that matter to british columbia and go to alberta and

03:18:22.500 get a bunch of journalists from alberta get them to ask questions and it would have been really

03:18:26.740 interesting to hear if justin trudeau had a different tune speaking out west as opposed to

03:18:31.940 you know to his base and to his core in quebec and in ottawa and ontario uh you know go out to

03:18:36.980 to the Maritimes and talk to people out there. Like, this is a national election. Go up north.

03:18:42.300 You know, have a debate just for First Nations issues. Aaron O'Toole is the first leader who

03:18:48.240 is going to be speaking. So we'll cut our analysis and head right to the Scrum where

03:18:53.860 Aaron O'Toole is taking questions now. Good evening. Good evening, Mr. O'Toole.

03:18:59.100 Ryan Tomlin, National Post. I want to ask about your climate change plan, the plan for the personal

03:19:03.620 carbon savings accounts.

03:19:05.560 If you're successful in the election, if you're Prime Minister,

03:19:07.860 can you tell us how quickly that

03:19:09.520 program will be brought in

03:19:10.800 and what you'll do with Mr. Trudeau's carbon tax

03:19:13.980 in the meantime? When will

03:19:15.620 it end? When will the carbon savings account

03:19:17.600 start? What happens in the in-between?

03:19:20.020 Well, this is part of the reason why we

03:19:21.680 put out our plan in April. We wanted

03:19:23.740 to show provinces

03:19:25.140 another option to price carbon, to make

03:19:27.880 our Paris commitments, but to also

03:19:29.980 have economic recovery. So those

03:19:31.640 conversations will go underway. We want to partner with the provinces and I think after six years of

03:19:36.980 Mr. Trudeau having an Ottawa Knows Best approach for everything, I want to see more collaboration

03:19:41.760 within our confederation and climate change will be an important part of that. Mike, number two,

03:19:47.420 please. Good evening, Mr. O'Toole, Andrew Lawton, True North. Thanks in large part to high vaccine

03:19:53.140 uptake, we've seen cases and hospitalizations decouple. A lot of restrictions, even some under

03:19:58.660 federal control still remain in place, though, for vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals.

03:20:03.680 If you're Prime Minister, what is the metric you're going to use to decide when the pandemic

03:20:08.280 is over, basically? Is it going to be cases, hospitalizations, vaccine rate? What is the end

03:20:13.020 result for you? We're going to work with public health officials to make sure that we can keep

03:20:18.680 people safe. That's got to be the priority, not to have a fifth wave after a fourth wave,

03:20:23.440 and to balance the economy.

03:20:25.980 Our main concern with Mr. Trudeau,

03:20:28.160 he was so slow on just approving rapid testing.

03:20:31.360 That is a tool that, if used properly,

03:20:33.540 can be a very important build on to vaccines and to distancing.

03:20:38.060 It lets us have openings.

03:20:40.080 That's where we want to see more federal leadership 0.89

03:20:42.040 to balance off the need to get our economy back on track.

03:20:46.560 We'll take a question from the phone now.

03:20:48.980 Operator, is there a question on the phone?

03:20:53.440 Operator, is there a question from the phone?

03:21:05.680 So we will take a question from the room and we'll come back to the phone and try and compensate

03:21:09.380 that question.

03:21:11.380 Mic number one, please.

03:21:12.640 Thank you.

03:21:13.640 Mike LaPointe from the Hill Times.

03:21:15.840 Mr. O'Toole, Conservatives are the traditional party that look to balance the budget as quickly

03:21:20.780 as possible. And after a year of unprecedented spending, if elected, what would you do to bring

03:21:28.780 the government finances back to normality? Great question. Mr. Trudeau is spending $424 million

03:21:37.280 per day, more than we're bringing in. So we launched Canada's recovery plan, which is going

03:21:42.580 to focus on getting our economy back on a strong footing, getting people working, particularly

03:21:46.640 highly impacted sectors that we want to see, we want to focus on work and get our budget back

03:21:52.240 to balance over the course of the next decade. The parliamentary budget officer just confirmed

03:21:56.520 our plan. That is what we need, a plan to get back to a fiscal stability in our country so that

03:22:03.420 we safeguard our programs and avoid a debt crisis that Mr. Trudeau is leading us towards.

03:22:11.720 So we will try the phones once again. Operator, is there a question from the phone, please?

03:22:16.360 From the phone, please.

03:22:23.660 Mic number two, please.

03:22:24.640 Mic number two, please.

03:22:25.780 Thank you, Mr. Atul.

03:22:26.920 Rosina's support from the UK Daily Telegraph.

03:22:29.780 There's been very little foreign policy discussion in the campaign so far.

03:22:33.800 So if you were prime minister, how would you set yourself apart from Mr. Trudeau on the world stage?

03:22:39.100 And what message do you have for Canada's closest allies like the UK in terms of international collaboration

03:22:44.200 on everything from Afghanistan to climate change.

03:22:47.720 Well, as I said this evening,

03:22:49.280 I think it was a failure of leadership

03:22:50.740 for Mr. Trudeau to call an election

03:22:52.960 and leave behind 1,200 Canadians

03:22:55.900 and hundreds of other translators and people

03:22:58.140 that are at risk in Afghanistan

03:22:59.480 because they served with our forces,

03:23:01.780 with our diplomats.

03:23:03.100 Canada doesn't leave people behind.

03:23:05.020 And Mr. Trudeau put himself first.

03:23:06.980 I want our NATO allies,

03:23:09.180 our Five Eyes allies to know

03:23:10.380 we will be there as a strong partner.

03:23:12.180 We will stand up for human rights.

03:23:13.600 We have a lot of concerns with the conduct of the communist government in China.

03:23:18.820 And we will look at innovative partnerships like my Kanzuk initiative.

03:23:23.040 There's lots of interest to work even closer with the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand.

03:23:29.520 So we will try from the phones once again.

03:23:31.960 Operator, can we have a question from the phone?

03:23:34.460 From the phone.

03:23:41.500 Mike, number one, please.

03:23:42.520 Mike, number one, please.

03:23:43.600 Mr. Atul, Murad Hamadi from The Logic.

03:23:49.140 Your platform states that you will, quote,

03:23:51.480 pass strong legislation to protect privacy more effectively

03:23:54.880 than the current government's weak Bill C-11.

03:23:58.120 What specifically is wrong with Bill C-11,

03:24:00.680 and how do you propose to regulate businesses' use of data and AI?

03:24:04.880 We have been speaking to people about the need

03:24:07.600 to allow people to have ownership and control

03:24:10.500 over their footprint, over their privacy,

03:24:13.040 particularly in a digital age.

03:24:15.500 We need to make sure that there's ownership there.

03:24:18.120 It's also why we support open banking, for example,

03:24:20.840 so that people can own that and control it

03:24:23.360 and have certainty with respect to their personal information.

03:24:27.260 Canada's recovery plan is about making sure our economy bounces back

03:24:30.480 and that we safeguard Canadians in the digital space.

03:24:35.560 Mic number two, please.

03:24:37.540 Good evening. Jenna Kokulo with The Wire Report.

03:24:40.500 In your run to be party leader,

03:24:41.920 you said you wanted to defund the CBC's digital services

03:24:45.060 and cut its English TV services by 50%.

03:24:48.140 Now you've kind of walked that back in your party platform.

03:24:51.060 What changed for you since then?

03:24:53.180 What I've said is I think with the digital age,

03:24:55.940 you know, my own kids watch a lot of streaming services on YouTube,

03:24:59.840 we need to make sure that we preserve content creators in Canada,

03:25:03.520 that we have a competitive landscape,

03:25:05.140 and that in some areas like English television and digital,

03:25:08.540 We shouldn't see the government competing with the private sector that is trying desperately to innovate and hold on, particularly with advertising.

03:25:16.860 So we'd like to see a modernization to see less of that competition, less government subsidizing newspapers and other organizations,

03:25:25.420 taking that state competition out and making sure we support the creation of private sector content and creation.

03:25:34.340 And let's try the phone line once again.

03:25:37.620 operator is there a call on a question from the phone from the phone yes our first question

03:25:43.400 tonight is from uh dylan robertson from winnipeg free press please go ahead your line is open

03:25:49.080 mr otul why won't you tell us how many of your candidates are vaccinated

03:25:55.860 as you know as you know i encourage all canadians to get vaccinated they're safe and effective for

03:26:04.100 use, and I've been fighting for better access to supply, and I will respect personal decisions

03:26:09.320 about health care, and we need to work together to overcome any questions that people may have.

03:26:15.500 In fact, I was proud to work with Mr. Singh and the other leaders tonight to film a video talking

03:26:20.980 about how important and safe vaccines are in our fight against COVID-19. What I haven't liked

03:26:26.320 with Mr. Trudeau's pandemic election is this attempt to divide people when we should be

03:26:32.400 working together in our fight against COVID-19.

03:26:35.860 Operator, please, we'll take another question from the phone.

03:26:46.700 Mic number one, please.

03:26:49.400 Jean-Sébastien Cloutier, Radio-Canada.

03:26:50.840 Bonjour, Monsieur O'Toole, bonsoir.

03:26:53.400 Vous avez entendu Monsieur Legault aujourd'hui au Québec

03:26:56.560 qui a laissé sous-entendre qu'un gouvernement

03:26:59.040 minoritaires, conservateurs,

03:27:00.840 serait peut-être la meilleure idée,

03:27:02.460 que les autres partis étaient centralisateurs.

03:27:05.160 Avez-vous vu ça comme un appui de la part de M. Legault?

03:27:08.680 Quelle a été votre réaction?

03:27:10.720 Comme je l'ai dit, j'ai beaucoup de respect

03:27:12.700 pour le premier ministre Legault et son leadership

03:27:14.980 pendant la pandémie.

03:27:16.580 On a beaucoup d'enjeux en commun,

03:27:19.760 particulièrement la création de réussies

03:27:21.660 et une relance économique.

03:27:24.420 Et j'ai un contrat avec les Québécois et les Québécoises

03:27:27.960 because I will always respect the competencies and have a fédéralism of partnership.

03:27:36.260 I will continue to work in collaboration with all provinces, including Prime Minister Legault.

03:27:45.560 And let's try the phone lines once again. Operator, is there a question on the phone?

03:27:49.160 On the phone. Yes, thank you. The next question is from Raymond Fillon, TVA. Please go ahead. The line is open.

03:27:56.660 Merci. Merci. Bonsoir, M. Autour.

03:27:58.700 Je voudrais savoir si vous êtes d'accord avec la première question

03:28:01.260 qui a été posée à M. Blanchet par la modératrice ce soir

03:28:03.640 sur les lois 21 au Québec, 96 aussi sur la protection du français.

03:28:08.260 Est-ce que ce sont des lois discriminatoires, comme elle l'a dit?

03:28:13.200 Comme j'ai dit, je vais toujours respecter les chambres des compétences du Québec

03:28:18.080 et avoir une approche de partenariat.

03:28:20.620 and we have to respect the language, the culture, the laïcité.

03:28:27.100 I will always respect that and I will work on a team of collaboration

03:28:31.200 on the language, particularly with the law 101

03:28:36.480 for the federal government.

03:28:38.660 It's the time to respect all provinces and that would be my approach.

03:28:45.000 It's our time to work together and respect all provinces.

03:28:48.200 We need to partner, particularly coming out of COVID-19, and respect provincial jurisdiction and try and come together to partner. 0.59

03:28:56.780 I think we need to fight against the decline of the French language.

03:29:01.220 I think having French as the language of work, this is an area with Bill 101 and the federally regulated enterprises in the province.

03:29:09.360 I think it's a matter of fairness that those large players like the banks and others take the same approach that medium-sized players do, making French the language of the workplace in Quebec.

03:29:20.260 That's all the time we have. Thank you very much.

03:29:24.460 Merci beaucoup.

03:29:24.980 Thank you.

03:29:25.680 And really, I thought that Erin O'Toole did a great job, but there's a couple things

03:29:37.720 that I noticed. The first several questions were all about COVID and the economy, because

03:29:43.860 those are the issues that Canadians care about. Unlike the debate where we focused on climate

03:29:47.380 change, we focused on reconciliation, things that sure are important, but they're not the

03:29:52.300 dominant issues in the campaign, it was interesting that even the journalists, even the out-of-touch

03:29:56.180 journalists in Ottawa picked up on the issues that mattered to Canadians.

03:30:00.660 I thought that O'Toole did a great job.

03:30:01.920 He looked really comfortable, and, you know, he's confident.

03:30:06.400 He's got his message, and he sticks to it, and I thought he did a great job there.

03:30:11.340 Yeah, it is interesting that they focused on what was missing from the debate.

03:30:16.980 They didn't hear answers during the debate, so it's just natural that they would ask.

03:30:22.300 As you say, I just want to make one point because Andrew Lawton got a great question in there and it was great to have to North being able to ask that question.

03:30:34.080 It wasn't, you know, an easy thing for us to have Andrew there.

03:30:37.120 And the question he asked was, you know, what's the end point of this pandemic?

03:30:40.840 When are we out?

03:30:42.260 When can we go back to normal?

03:30:43.660 And, you know, I thought that O'Toole did a decent job answering that.

03:30:46.500 But I would really like to hear more politicians ask that question.

03:30:49.400 Like, when is this pandemic over?

03:30:51.300 When can we go back to normal?

03:30:52.160 And that's what I think is going to be interesting when we look at policies like vaccine passports, right, which we see are reasonably popular when you look at it on the polls.

03:30:59.820 But I think that's based on a tacit belief that most people have that they're a temporary thing.

03:31:04.140 Well, they'll have this vaccine passport until COVID is no longer a threat.

03:31:07.860 If you say, well, it's going to have this vaccine passport for a significant length of time, probably could the popularity be lower.

03:31:13.780 And Andrew's question is a very, very important one is what's the criteria for pulling back on all these restrictions?

03:31:20.100 Right, because we need actual, like, an endgame here.

03:31:23.340 It's like we keep having moving goalposts.

03:31:25.340 And I think a lot of the reason that people agree to vaccine passports,

03:31:28.660 I think, look, I think the vaccines are important.

03:31:30.540 I think everyone should go and get them, that they're safe and effective.

03:31:34.120 But the idea of the government trying to manage this passport system,

03:31:37.700 it really doesn't sit well with me.

03:31:39.100 I mean, we're watching this government debate right now.

03:31:41.320 They can't even figure out how to get the questions from the people on the phone to go.

03:31:45.100 And we're supposed to believe that they can manage this national vaccine passport system

03:31:48.880 with all of our help and it's kind of interesting too because we had a story about this at tnc.news

03:31:54.240 today about how city councillors here in toronto who oppose carding that will really oppose the idea

03:31:59.440 of carding which is just when police go up to an individual who might need a description of a

03:32:04.080 wanted criminal and ask for their id uh that's outrageous because apparently it's racist and yet

03:32:09.600 the same people who are for against carding are for vaccine passports which are far more intrusive

03:32:14.960 far more invasive require more id and they require everyone to have them at all times to go to a

03:32:19.920 restaurant go to a bar i mean to me it's just a massive overreach of government and i think that

03:32:24.080 more people uh you know the idea that oh if we just have these vaccine passports we'll go back

03:32:29.200 to normal that's really temporary thinking that's thinking okay i'll give up all these liberties uh

03:32:33.440 for like the short-term idea uh of some freedom but like do you really trust the government to

03:32:39.360 let this no one system go I think it's a terrifying slope that was a slippery slope and you know I

03:32:46.080 always think with governments if they tax something for example they're not going to remove the tax

03:32:52.480 so if they impose these passports so they impose these restrictions every time we agree to something

03:32:57.440 they're just going to keep opening it opens the door to more and more so right now we the way

03:33:03.680 they're talking we can't go into a restaurant we can't go into a gym without vaccine passports

03:33:08.960 we certainly can't travel without vaccine passports we can't get out of canada well right

03:33:14.800 now we can't even get to the states but you know they there are so many restrictions on us our

03:33:22.800 lives have completely changed i think it's a very fair question i'm not sure that politicians are

03:33:28.320 prepared to answer that question and we haven't really seen a very good answer but i will say

03:33:33.920 that you know erin o'toole was at least answered the question in the way he didn't he didn't give

03:33:37.920 a specific metric, which I think we're hoping for, like, you know, when 90% of people get vaccinated

03:33:42.480 or when COVID case rates go down to something like that. You know, we don't have that. But

03:33:48.400 again, this is a question I think that we should be demanding that our politicians answer.

03:33:53.680 But I think there is some point politicians have to understand that we're going to have to learn

03:33:57.680 to live with it without all these massive restrictions. We get vaccinated for the flu,

03:34:04.000 or most of us, I'm not sure, you know, I do every year.

03:34:08.160 And we're going to have to learn to live with it

03:34:10.880 and make, you know, the necessary accommodations,

03:34:13.900 but not restrict our lives and our travel

03:34:16.500 and, you know, our ability to move in the world.

03:34:20.460 Absolutely.

03:34:21.500 All right, well, we've kind of missed most of the bloc leaders' questions here,

03:34:24.780 but let's go to the federal debate

03:34:29.560 and listen to the rest of the scrum here.

03:34:31.440 — Est-ce que cette question-là peut influencer les prochains jours de la campagne, à votre avis,

03:34:37.120 puisqu'elle a été posée par une animatrice du débat, non pas que ça ne s'est pas passé dans un échange entre les autres chefs?

03:34:44.660 — Non, non, en fait, là, je me réentends en écho.

03:34:47.840 Bon, j'imagine que les autres chefs, s'il y avait eu un inconfort par rapport à la nature de la question

03:34:52.740 qui établissait que les Québécois sont des racistes, bien, ils l'auraient dit,

03:34:56.720 ça n'a pas l'air de les avoir dérangés trop, trop.

03:34:58.940 Est-ce que ça a un avenir? Est-ce que ça va influencer l'avenir de la campagne?

03:35:02.440 On en était déjà en train d'établir que les Québécois avaient besoin qu'il n'y ait pas de majorité accordée à qui que ce soit.

03:35:09.840 Mais c'est plus clair que jamais que ça prend quelqu'un qui va protéger les intérêts du Québec.

03:35:15.980 En général, je dis promouvoir, mais là je vais dire protéger, parce que ça a été l'objet d'une attaque, d'une agression contre le Québec.

03:35:22.480 But the need seems clearer than ever.

03:35:25.760 And, my faith, there are not many line candidates to protect Quebec in this parliament.

03:35:30.260 We will be there.

03:35:33.200 Question from the mic number two, please.

03:35:52.480 child welfare to Indigenous nations.

03:35:54.800 This bill is being challenged by

03:35:56.460 Quebec in court.

03:35:58.240 It's a constitutional challenge.

03:36:00.280 Are you willing to concede that

03:36:02.080 the nation-to-nation relationship

03:36:04.340 as you described it earlier today

03:36:06.320 will require power sharing

03:36:08.520 and jurisdictional sharing between

03:36:10.220 Quebec and First Nations?

03:36:11.660 I would invite you to ask this question to the Premier of Quebec.

03:36:16.680 Micro number one, s'il vous plaît.

03:36:17.920 Oui, bonsoir. L'inadible, la ministre canadienne.

03:36:20.120 Bonsoir, M. Blanchet. Moi, j'aimerais revenir

03:36:22.040 sur ce que M. Legault a dit ce matin,

03:36:23.760 parce que je pense qu'on ne vous a pas entendu y réagir.

03:36:26.280 Maintenant, vous savez exactement c'était quoi.

03:36:28.040 Oui, votre collègue derrière vous m'a entendu ce matin.

03:36:29.960 Il était là.

03:36:30.840 Non, parce que mon collègue, qui était sur le même autobus,

03:36:33.340 m'a dit que vous aviez dit que vous n'aviez pas tout entendu.

03:36:35.320 Non, je n'avais pas tout entendu, en effet.

03:36:36.780 Et que donc, vous nous parleriez plus tard.

03:36:37.680 Ça va me faire plaisir.

03:36:38.500 Nous sommes plus tard.

03:36:39.400 C'est sûr.

03:36:40.220 Attendez que je pose ma question.

03:36:41.800 Je pense.

03:36:42.180 Je pense.

03:36:42.460 Je pense gestuellement.

03:36:44.040 Oui, donc, vous avez dû y penser toute la journée.

03:36:46.680 On a tous compris que M. Legault était en train de dire aux Québécois

03:36:49.460 votez pour les conservateurs.

03:36:51.220 Ça, c'est des votes qui vous prend à vous

03:36:52.780 et j'aimerais savoir

03:36:54.580 si quand, aussi tout à l'heure, vous avez dit

03:36:57.160 à M. O'Toole en quittant le plateau,

03:36:59.360 vous lui avez dit

03:37:00.340 ça te prend un chien de garde.

03:37:03.160 Le chien de garde, c'est le bloc. Est-ce que vous êtes

03:37:04.960 en train de concéder que M. O'Toole...

03:37:06.340 Comment ça fait qu'on a entendu ce que j'ai dit en privé à M. O'Toole

03:37:08.900 sur le plateau? Non, non, non, c'est pas en privé.

03:37:11.360 C'était quand vous êtes sur le plateau.

03:37:12.880 Sur le plateau, on se parle après, puis on me pose des questions

03:37:15.160 sur ce que j'ai dit à M. O'Toole après

03:37:16.860 sur le plateau, avec un texte seul ou avec l'animatrice.

03:37:20.280 Vraiment.

03:37:21.040 D'accord.

03:37:21.680 Donc, est-ce que vous êtes en train de concéder que M. O'Toole

03:37:24.760 va devenir premier ministre et que donc, pour ce faire,

03:37:27.260 il vous prend, vous vote?

03:37:28.780 C'est ça ma question.

03:37:29.800 Et par rapport à M. O'Toole?

03:37:30.660 Prenez-vous des chaises parce que la question est assez longue

03:37:33.200 et intéressante, on va en parler longtemps.

03:37:35.980 Moi, mon interprétation, elle est complètement différente

03:37:38.660 de votre tout le monde.

03:37:40.140 Je ne sais pas c'est qui tout le monde en fait,

03:37:41.240 qui est tout le monde.

03:37:42.320 Moi, mon interprétation, c'est qu'évidemment,

03:37:44.620 un premier ministre du Québec doit interpeller

03:37:46.760 des gens qui considèrent qu'ils peuvent devenir chef de l'État.

03:37:49.280 C'est tout à fait normal.

03:37:50.660 Qu'est-ce que j'ai entendu?

03:37:51.600 J'ai entendu un premier ministre qui dit

03:37:53.940 « Il y a trois parties qui sont hyper centralisateurs.

03:37:57.940 Il y en a un qui l'est moins.

03:37:59.760 Mais je veux un gouvernement minoritaire.

03:38:01.580 Quand on est au Québec et qu'on veut un gouvernement minoritaire,

03:38:04.660 on ne parle pas du NPD et des Verts.

03:38:06.300 On parle du Bloc québécois.

03:38:07.740 Donc, c'est au moins autant une invitation

03:38:10.200 à considérer le Bloc québécois

03:38:11.860 qu'à considérer les conservateurs.

03:38:13.640 L'espèce de raccourci que j'ai entendu en effet toute la journée ne me semble pas fondé.

03:38:19.540 Moi, j'étais plutôt content. Je fais, bon, donc le premier ministre du Québec suggère de considérer le Bloc québécois parce que personne ne mérite une majorité dans ce Parlement-là.

03:38:27.600 Je rappellerai qu'en matière de transfert en santé, pour les trois premières années, c'est 3,5 % par année.

03:38:32.940 Ce n'est même pas le 6 % par année. C'est à des milliards et des milliards de dollars.

03:38:37.340 Avec ce calcul-là, d'ailleurs, la première année, on est déjà dans le tout de proche 30 milliards par rapport aux demandes des provinces.

03:38:43.020 and in terms of guard services, the Prime Minister of Quebec has been quite clear and said

03:38:47.460 hey, I want the guard services or I want to hear about the guard services that there are

03:38:51.900 with Quebec and that there are other provinces.

03:38:54.460 So, there are more spectacular resources than funded.

03:38:57.540 I have no doubt about what I heard and if I didn't have any of them during the day,

03:39:03.100 I would allow you to tell you that with the debate of this evening.

03:39:13.020 Like, you know, last night of the French debate, in the sense that he was there, you know, they were talking a lot about Quebec.

03:39:18.240 And at some points it was even, like, I appreciated his perspective because he was taking a little bit of a different angle.

03:39:23.800 For instance, when they were talking about labor markets, he was the only one that was sort of, you know,

03:39:28.180 talking about how a lot of people don't want to go to work because they get paid to sit at home and talking about CERB.

03:39:33.160 That was something that, like, all the other leaders were dancing around.

03:39:35.760 Tonight it's just, like, everything that Yves Van Gogh says, it's like, why is this guy here?

03:39:39.760 He's like the cranky uncle that no one really wants to have over for dinner, and yet he's still always there, ranting and raving.

03:39:46.500 It really just drills in the sort of Quebec favoritism that we have in this country, the pandering that happens.

03:39:53.520 And I don't know.

03:39:55.420 Look, Quebec is important, just like every other province is important.

03:39:58.600 But the tone that he takes, it just feels like a petulant child to me.

03:40:02.320 I wonder that Westfield is disenfranchised when they listen to two French debates,

03:40:08.440 or they encounter two French debates,

03:40:11.000 and they have this gentleman who really shouldn't be in the English debate

03:40:15.500 taking up airtime, and then now taking up airtime,

03:40:19.860 speaking in French yet again,

03:40:22.000 and you're thinking, okay, enough already.

03:40:25.260 We understand there's a province of Quebec,

03:40:27.560 but there are nine other provinces.

03:40:30.280 Yeah, it's just, you know, it adds insult to injury.

03:40:37.120 In theory, he's there because even though they run candidates in Quebec that, you know, what he says could be of interest to the Anglophones in the West Island of Montreal who, of course, vote, you know, like 3% of them vote for the bloc or 1% of them vote for the bloc or something.

03:40:52.120 You know, so he's there, in theory, speaking to a group of people who, by their very nature, are very disinterested in what he has to say.

03:41:00.280 The debates would clearly be better in a much more focused manner, but it's been a long

03:41:09.180 tradition.

03:41:10.180 I mean, I remember we used to have Preston Manning in the French debate when the Reform

03:41:13.700 Party wasn't barely even running any candidates in Quebec, and that wasn't any better.

03:41:17.400 But it was that we have this sort of bizarre idea that we have to, everybody, if you're

03:41:21.400 running more than a certain number of candidates or you've got MPs, you must be in all the

03:41:25.720 debates.

03:41:26.720 I was like, well, do you actually have to be?

03:41:28.220 Really?

03:41:29.220 Really?

03:41:30.220 how do you think that he is doing you're looking at the polls and the numbers is he resonating with

03:41:34.860 voters in quebec is he is he doing a good job from that perspective so look it depends on the

03:41:39.180 polls you look at some polls show most polls in quebec suffer from being raised with all sample

03:41:43.740 sizes because they have a large margin of error uh the bloc won 32 seats in the last election

03:41:49.260 in quebec which was a big jump for them they only had 10 in the election before so they you know

03:41:52.540 they more than tripled their representation which was a big win but the crazy thing is that there

03:41:56.780 There was another eight seats they lost by about another 5% or 6%.

03:41:59.980 Here comes Trudeau.

03:42:01.560 Should we go back to Trudeau?

03:42:02.800 Yeah, let's go back.

03:42:04.380 We'll go to Trudeau at the scrum and we'll continue.

03:42:06.720 Shout-out to Leila Fernandez. 1.00

03:42:08.200 I got off stage and discovered that she won the semifinals 1.00

03:42:11.680 and is on her way to the finals.

03:42:13.240 I think we're all very, very excited about her.

03:42:16.440 Je veux juste féliciter Leila Fernandez pour un match extraordinaire

03:42:20.380 que je n'ai pas pu voir parce que j'étais occupé,

03:42:22.920 mais j'ai bien hâte de voir les finales du U.S. Open.

03:42:26.780 Mike, number one, please.

03:42:29.340 Hi, Mr. Trudeau.

03:42:30.680 It's Annie Bergeron-Oliver with CTV National News.

03:42:33.040 Today, the other leaders criticized you and your government

03:42:35.280 for putting political goals above the well-being of Canada's Afghan allies.

03:42:40.560 Can you confidently say that this election,

03:42:42.640 the need to campaign right across the country,

03:42:45.140 in no way diverted your attention away from the situation in Afghanistan

03:42:49.060 and in no way slowed down Canada's evacuation response?

03:42:52.560 Yes, I can confidently say that.

03:42:54.300 I got regular briefings throughout the time, even as I was campaigning.

03:42:59.320 Our ministers were fully engaged, and mostly our Canadian Armed Forces, our diplomats,

03:43:04.520 our extraordinary consular affairs people continued to step up so we could get 17 flights out.

03:43:11.500 We engaged with the Qataris to make sure that more flights were coming out as this recent one came out.

03:43:18.740 We will continue to be there for the people of Afghanistan as Canadians expected to,

03:43:23.400 UNS Canadians open their homes and their communities to welcome 20, even 40,000 Afghan refugees

03:43:30.560 over the coming months. 0.91

03:43:32.560 Mic number two, please.

03:43:35.940 Hello, Mr. Trudeau.

03:43:38.940 I'm Alexander for Rebel News.

03:43:40.940 So, Mr. Trudeau, I'm going to talk quickly about what happened yesterday.

03:43:44.940 You have violated one of the rare media that doesn't receive money from the government.

03:43:50.640 Vous avez exprimé votre opinion en disant que nous propageons la désinformation.

03:43:56.100 Si c'était vrai et si c'était le cas, la Cour fédérale ne nous aurait pas permis d'être ici aujourd'hui.

03:44:02.680 Je suis moi-même scientifique et je me base sur les faits.

03:44:06.600 Ma question est la suivante.

03:44:08.900 L'Israël est l'un des pays les plus vaccinés au monde.

03:44:13.240 Ils sont rendus maintenant à leur quatrième rappel de vaccin.

03:44:16.060 They don't consider that those who have received two doses of vaccine are fully vaccinated.

03:44:22.060 My question is, many Canadians don't want to have a vaccine vaccine.

03:44:32.060 Will they remove their privileges related to the vaccine passport?

03:44:39.060 And, would you have to answer my question as Prime Minister, or would you still have to

03:44:46.680 destroy my media?

03:44:48.680 I shared my perspective on your organization this evening, I have nothing to say.

03:44:54.680 It asks you who you are. Thank you.

03:44:58.680 Question from the phone, please. The operator, is there a question?

03:45:03.300 Thank you. The next question is from Melanie Marquis, La Preche.

03:45:08.200 À vous la parole.

03:45:10.180 Merci.

03:45:11.080 Bonsoir, M. Trudeau.

03:45:12.140 Hier, au débat en français, vous avez fait une profession de foi québécoise bien sentie.

03:45:17.940 Aujourd'hui, le Québec, notamment la loi sur la laïcité, le projet de loi 96,

03:45:23.680 ont été attaqués par le truchement des questions d'animatrices.

03:45:27.480 Vous n'êtes pas intervenu.

03:45:28.940 Comment réconcilier le chef libéral d'hier et le chef libéral d'aujourd'hui?

03:45:34.560 First of all, I think we've all seen that the format prevented a little bit of an immediate response.

03:45:41.560 But I can say that first, the Quebecois and Canadians know my agreement with the Projet

03:45:47.700 of Law 21, but I can also say, as a proud Quebecois, that the Quebecois are not racist.

03:45:55.480 Mike, number one, please.

03:45:57.000 Thank you. Ben O. Schwinghammer with the German Press Agency, DPA.

03:46:00.500 Prime Minister, you and others have been facing in the last weeks

03:46:03.720 quite some hate on the campaign trail from a quite small but loud minority.

03:46:10.360 How would you say to deal with these people, listen to them or ignore them?

03:46:15.820 And do you think this hate is here to stay?

03:46:17.880 I think one of the things we need to make sure we're doing quite clearly

03:46:23.160 is making a distinction between those people who are showing up as mobs of anti-vaxxers

03:46:30.680 and protesting everything with racist and misogynistic anti-science approaches

03:46:36.220 and those millions of Canadians who haven't yet got vaccinated

03:46:40.300 because they still have questions and are unsure if it's right for them

03:46:44.140 or unsure if they really need to.

03:46:46.140 And our approach has been unequivocal on this.

03:46:49.080 We believe that people who have done the right thing, as almost 80% of Canadians have, and gotten vaccinated should be able to feel free from risk when they get on planes, when they get on trains, when they go into work.

03:47:05.920 And that's why we're working as well with the provinces on vaccine credentials that will allow people to enjoy non-essential services without fearing that their kid, who is seven and therefore not able to get vaccinated, could be exposed to someone who is.

03:47:23.560 We have to be very, very clear that we are a country of science in which millions of people have stood up to do the right thing for themselves and for their neighbors and continue to encourage that.

03:47:35.120 It's unfortunate that Aaron O'Toole can't even get his own candidates to get vaccinated

03:47:42.260 and pretends he wants 90% of Canadians to get vaccinated

03:47:46.540 when he can't guarantee 90% of his candidates are vaccinated, as I said during the debate.

03:47:53.060 Mike, number two, please.

03:47:54.980 That was quite the softball question from my friend over there,

03:47:57.560 so I'll try and ask a real one.

03:47:58.600 Kian Bextie with TheCounterSignal.com.

03:48:00.620 Mr. Trudeau, there has been some speculation that this poorly timed election

03:48:03.900 has been called in part so that you can stop Parliament, the former Parliament, from procuring

03:48:08.900 documents that they're constitutionally allowed to have in regards to the Communist Party

03:48:13.780 of China infiltrating the Winnipeg Lab that you are in control of, that you're responsible

03:48:18.680 for.

03:48:19.680 So I want to know, is it in Canada's national interest that you're protecting those documents?

03:48:23.000 Is it in China's national interest that you're protecting those documents?

03:48:25.720 Is it in your personal political interest that you're protecting those documents?

03:48:28.640 What are you trying to hide from not just Canadians but the world?

03:48:31.480 I think Canadians understand how important it is to protect national security and to

03:48:36.840 ensure that parliamentarians can oversee the work of our national security agencies.

03:48:42.920 That's why, as a commitment we made in 2015, we moved forward with something that conservatives

03:48:47.980 had always resisted, oversight by parliamentarians over our national security agencies.

03:48:54.920 And the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians actually works,

03:49:03.460 and we granted them full access to all the highly secure documents so as they could see

03:49:09.560 the decisions that our security professionals took and not put at risk the national security

03:49:17.080 of Canada.

03:49:18.080 Parliamentarians need to be able to do their work, which we have enabled, while we protect 0.87

03:49:23.680 Canada's national security from China and from others. 0.99

03:49:28.140 We'll take a question from the phone.

03:49:30.640 Zaire prend une question du téléphone au prêteur.

03:49:34.240 Thank you. The next question is from Raymond Filon, TVA.

03:49:38.500 Go ahead.

03:49:40.240 Merci, bonsoir, M. Trudeau.

03:49:41.740 Vous ventez depuis plusieurs semaines votre bonne entente avec le Premier ministre du Québec.

03:49:45.700 Or, aujourd'hui, François Legault a utilisé des mots très forts envers votre parti.

03:49:50.960 Il l'a qualifié de dangereux, inquiétant,

03:49:53.180 contre les valeurs de la nation québécoise.

03:49:55.600 Est-ce que c'est une trahison, selon vous,

03:49:57.880 ces propos-là de M. Legault aujourd'hui?

03:49:59.700 Non. On sait très bien que M. Legault va toujours défendre

03:50:04.280 ce qu'il voit comme étant les intérêts des Québécois.

03:50:07.260 Et, en tant que fier Québécois,

03:50:08.960 mais aussi en tant que premier ministre du Canada,

03:50:12.040 moi, je vais toujours défendre l'intérêt

03:50:14.460 de tous les Canadiens, incluant les Québécois.

03:50:17.560 But when we think about what the Québécois want and our values, I know enough to know that the Québécois do not want a conservative government

03:50:29.560 that will bring the targets of Mr. Harper and propose new pipelines across the country for the environment.

03:50:37.560 I know that the Québécois do not want to re-legalize,

03:50:42.060 to re-legalize, to re-legalize the weapons that we banned the past year. 0.73

03:50:47.560 I know that the Québécois, the Colombian families,

03:50:50.560 need more places in guardia,

03:50:53.560 and Mr. O'Toole propose to destroy the agreement

03:50:57.560 that I signed with Mr. Legault for 6 billion dollars

03:51:01.560 which will deliver tens of thousands of new places in guardia,

03:51:05.560 according to Mr. Legault.

03:51:07.060 I will always work in partnership with the Prime Minister of the province to deliver specifically for citizens.

03:51:15.060 But there is no one waiting for the federal government and provincial governments to agree, especially.

03:51:22.060 Mike Nguyen, please.

03:51:24.060 Hi, Mr. Trudeau, Abigail Beeman, Global News.

03:51:27.060 When your opponents criticized you tonight on Afghanistan, you gave a vague comment about helping to bring more people home.

03:51:33.060 wondering with the news of 43 Canadians coming out of Kabul, whether there's anything specific

03:51:37.280 you can offer about how many more Canadians are left to help, whether the government will send

03:51:41.580 planes, or whether there's any news about commercial air flights being able to leave there again.

03:51:47.000 As I've said, we have worked with our international partners on putting pressure on the Taliban to

03:51:52.980 allow Canadians, permanent residents, and indeed anyone with Canadian travel documents to leave.

03:52:00.520 And that's why over the past number of weeks, we've been talking with the Qataris specifically to enable facilitating Canadians leaving as they did just last night from Afghanistan.

03:52:13.520 We know there is much more to do, not just to get Canadians out, but to get the tens of thousands of Afghans that Canada is determined to welcome to a new home, new life in safety.

03:52:25.440 and Canadians quite frankly are excited about welcoming to their communities across the country.

03:52:32.160 Thank you very much. Merci beaucoup. This is all the time we have.

03:52:43.520 Interesting to see Justin Trudeau go up. He got two questions from independent media,

03:52:49.520 so we had a sort of long-winded triple question from the rebel, the French reporter there,

03:52:54.960 who asked this almost sounded like she was giving a speech but she was asking uh three distinct

03:52:59.840 questions trudeau just basically said i'm not going to answer that i already told you why

03:53:04.400 yesterday then the very next question came from kian bexy also an independent reporter also

03:53:10.000 a member of the independent press gallery of canada he asked a question about china and it

03:53:15.440 was really an interesting question because we don't really hear that much about the incident

03:53:19.600 that happened in the winnipeg lab we know that there's something there and that we're not being

03:53:22.960 he told it, but we don't really know. And so it was great to hear that question get put to Trudeau

03:53:28.060 and he actually addressed it. He didn't really answer it because Trudeau doesn't really answer

03:53:31.220 questions, but he didn't just completely say no to Kian Bextie and he answered it there. He seemed

03:53:37.880 pretty calm and confident just looking at his demeanor. It seemed like he felt like pretty

03:53:42.380 proud of himself and pretty good about his debate performance, just judging by his sort of smug

03:53:48.380 arrogance. But that's Trudeau, right? He seemed really agitated and really bothered during the

03:53:52.560 debate there. He seemed like he was back to his smug, arrogant self. And I just make one final 0.95

03:53:57.580 note. He had to go there once again. We could have had a drinking game. We didn't. We totally

03:54:03.140 dropped the ball tonight on the debate night drinking game. But if there had been a True

03:54:08.160 North drinking game, there would have been two points where we would have drank. But every time

03:54:11.720 Trudeau invoked the word Harper, which we got a Harper there. We got a couple of Harpers throughout

03:54:16.680 the course of the debate. And then also every time he called Canadians racist. And he called

03:54:21.020 Canadians racist, the ones that were protesting. So when, when there's angry conservatives is

03:54:25.640 because they're racist. Exactly. You know, Trudeau, uh, he doesn't like being, being

03:54:30.940 confronted in a, for, in a strong manner, right? That's why he, the debates, I think he got a

03:54:37.060 little flustered in the debate, especially when there was two or three leaders coming out of it

03:54:40.560 once and they were talking over each other. And it's why he doesn't really like the House of

03:54:43.820 Commons. Uh, and he tries to avoid it as much as possible. Um, but press conferences, he quite

03:54:49.140 likes him. Even questions from non-friendly reporters are generally not shouted in a way

03:54:54.180 that sort of knocks him off his game. He can take his time, respond to them, and he certainly was

03:54:58.700 much more sort of calm and collected here, even in the face of questions from non-friendly reporters

03:55:04.620 than he was during the debate. And it's, you know, so that's one of the reasons why we have so few

03:55:10.100 debates, right? You know, if Trudeau really loved debate or thought debate would add, we would have

03:55:15.660 more, he would agree to more debates. He would have gone to the city TV debate in Toronto

03:55:22.020 two years ago, or maybe he would have agreed to other debates. The Monk debates had talked

03:55:27.280 about having a foreign affairs debate at one point as well. But he doesn't like that, and

03:55:31.900 he knows he's on the defensive there, so that's why we don't have them, because he doesn't

03:55:35.200 want them.

03:55:36.240 Salih, what did you think, Sue-Ann?

03:55:37.480 Well, you know, I love the long-winded question from the French rebel reporter, or the rebel

03:55:46.920 reporter speaking French, on and on and on, and then he just basically dismissed her,

03:55:53.240 which is classic Trudeau, of course. It's rude. Trudeau the feminist refused to take a question

03:55:58.120 from the young female reporter. Yeah. Well, it was classic, but, you know, 1.00

03:56:02.440 he shows his true colors yes he was calm uh because he thinks he can work the room basically

03:56:09.400 but um there was no added value at all from any of his answers do you think i i when trudo talks

03:56:17.960 i don't really get a lot of information i just hear a lot of word salads and i was sort of more

03:56:22.600 the same all right we've got uh ndp leader jagmeet singh out here answering some questions so let's

03:56:27.160 Let's go back over to that scrum.

03:56:30.160 I'm ready to realize the goals.

03:56:33.160 What I'm saying, and I want to be so clear,

03:56:37.160 my goal is to fight for people.

03:56:39.160 That means to invest in people,

03:56:42.160 to invest in our health care,

03:56:44.160 to face the climate crisis.

03:56:46.160 And as Prime Minister,

03:56:48.160 I'm ready to work with anyone who wants to work with me

03:56:54.160 We will take a question from the phone, operator, is there a question from the phone, please?

03:57:07.220 Thank you.

03:57:08.520 The next question is from Sheila Gunn-Reed from Rebel News.

03:57:13.040 Please go ahead.

03:57:14.840 Thank you.

03:57:15.660 Mr. Singh, the polls show that your party is between 15% and 20%.

03:57:19.920 No party here on the stage tonight is even close to representing a majority of Canadians.

03:57:25.380 This is an absolute divided country.

03:57:28.200 Yet when Conservative journalists like me ask you fair questions on behalf of Canadians,

03:57:33.820 you insult us and refuse to answer a single word.

03:57:37.580 You are like a child putting your hands over your ears.

03:57:41.500 Do you really think you can become Prime Minister by trying to freeze out any Canadian who disagrees with you?

03:57:47.640 In your own riding, you only got 38% of the vote.

03:57:52.620 Is this how you treat the other 62% of people who disagree with you?

03:57:57.620 No. Thanks so much.

03:57:59.680 Mic number one, please. Sorry, mic number two.

03:58:03.100 Hi, Mr. Singh. Olivia Stefanovic, CBC News.

03:58:05.820 You were criticized in the debate for having a platform that lacks details.

03:58:10.700 I'm wondering why that is. Why is your plan so general?

03:58:13.200 And do you have any regrets about releasing a platform so early, even before this election was called, without the fine details for voters to read?

03:58:21.280 Not at all. We laid out a plan, a vision of what we stand for.

03:58:25.880 And our plan is, not surprisingly, a lot of the things that we fought for before because Mr. Trudeau didn't do them.

03:58:32.540 We still believe that people should have access to medication and they shouldn't worry about how they can afford it.

03:58:37.540 We believe strongly that people shouldn't have to worry about whether they can afford or have coverage to get dental cover, dental care.

03:58:45.440 We absolutely believe that we need to make the ultra-rich pay their fair share.

03:58:49.040 And these continue to be really pressing questions on the minds of lots of people who can't afford their medication, who can't afford dental care, and are worried about who pays for the recovery and who pays the price of this pandemic.

03:59:00.900 We are the only party with a credible plan that says we're not going to cut the help

03:59:05.280 that people receive, and we're not going to put the burden back on the people that have

03:59:09.500 struggled.

03:59:10.500 We are the only party that clearly states we're going to make the billionaires, the

03:59:15.140 44 richest billionaires in Canada.

03:59:18.140 We increased their wealth by $78 billion in this pandemic and don't pay their share.

03:59:23.820 We're going to make them start paying their fair share, and that way we can invest it

03:59:26.700 in people.

03:59:27.700 to be clear, though, Mr. Trudeau and Mr. O'Toole have ruled that out. They have voted against

03:59:32.780 making web giants like Amazon pay their fair share, and that means they're either going to

03:59:37.320 cut the help that you need or put the pressure back on the people that have already struggled.

03:59:42.680 That's their plan. We have a different approach. Back on the people that have already struggled.

03:59:48.700 That's their plan. We have a different approach. Mike, number one, please.

03:59:54.040 Yeah, good evening, Mr. Singh, Ryan Hamilton, National Post.

03:59:57.540 You are voting tomorrow.

03:59:59.200 Canadians are beginning to vote tomorrow.

04:00:00.800 Yes.

04:00:01.260 Your party has not released a fully-costed platform at this point.

04:00:04.760 Do you think it's fair to Canadians to ask them to vote for you

04:00:07.780 without knowing what it will cost?

04:00:10.060 Yes, it is very fair, and I want Canadians to vote.

04:00:12.880 I'm going to be voting tomorrow, and if you want different results,

04:00:15.820 you're going to have to vote differently.

04:00:17.580 If you want the things that we believe in and that we're putting out,

04:00:20.140 you have to vote for it, so I want you all to get out and vote, please.

04:00:23.920 What we're saying to Canadians is,

04:00:26.100 we are putting a choice to you all.

04:00:28.660 And it's Canadians to decide this,

04:00:30.720 but the choice is,

04:00:31.420 can you afford another four more years

04:00:33.000 of Mr. Trudeau,

04:00:34.500 who has made a lot of promises

04:00:36.460 and broken them,

04:00:37.600 and that hurts people.

04:00:38.780 When he promised to bring in pharmacare

04:00:40.440 and breaks that promise

04:00:41.340 and walks away from it,

04:00:42.700 families continue to spend

04:00:44.120 thousands of dollars on medications.

04:00:46.600 People who need medication

04:00:47.900 constantly have to make the choice

04:00:49.960 between the medications that they need

04:00:51.960 or paying the bills that they also have to pay.

04:00:54.740 Those are choices that people continue to have to make

04:00:57.200 because Mr. Trudeau breaks those commitments.

04:00:59.920 So if you truly want universal pharmacare,

04:01:02.860 if you want to see childcare delivered,

04:01:05.220 if you want to see dental care,

04:01:06.860 the best way to make that happen

04:01:08.420 is to vote for New Democrats because we will deliver.

04:01:11.480 We are committed to it.

04:01:12.760 We are the party that's been founded by workers

04:01:14.820 and founded on the principles of healthcare that's public.

04:01:18.440 We are going to do it.

04:01:19.440 So if you need it and that's something that matters to you,

04:01:21.600 you can trust us to deliver it.

04:01:23.600 And we will go to the phones.

04:01:25.600 Operator, is there a question on the phone?

04:01:28.600 Thank you.

04:01:31.600 The next question is from Tom McCharles from the Toronto Star.

04:01:35.600 Please go ahead.

04:01:37.600 Hi, Mr Singh, thanks for taking my question.

04:01:39.600 Just following up on the lack of detail in your platform on costs and timelines and stuff,

04:01:45.600 the Liberals say that their childcare plans will cut fees in half next year

04:01:49.600 and they'll have $10 a day daycare by 2026?

04:01:54.020 You're promising $10 a day daycare as well,

04:01:57.200 but with no details, what's your timeline for that?

04:02:00.080 And are you pegging the same amount of money, $30 billion?

04:02:05.420 So I think it's a really important question.

04:02:08.440 What the Liberals have laid out, the plan is a good plan.

04:02:12.720 The problem, and so we would want to meet or exceed that type of deadline.

04:02:18.000 But the reality is, the real timeline of the Liberals is 30 years, because they started

04:02:24.760 promising this idea, which we absolutely believe in, 30 years ago.

04:02:30.700 And they have made people wait for three decades, despite having majority governments, despite

04:02:36.080 having the ability to get things done, they have made people wait for 30 years.

04:02:40.160 So I should say, we're not going to have the Liberal timelines of 30 years.

04:02:44.220 Our timeline is going to be to get it done as quickly as possible, because we know that

04:02:47.620 people need it. We believe in it. And I also put this to Canadians. If Mr. Trudeau really wanted

04:02:54.020 to get it done, why did he call an election? Why didn't he continue to deliver, knowing that we

04:03:00.760 would have supported any measure to bring in childcare? We could have got it done. He chose

04:03:06.480 an election instead. Folks should consider that when they're making their choice in this election.

04:03:11.180 If Mr. Trudeau wanted to do it, he could have. Why is he campaigning on it rather than actually

04:03:16.660 delivering it, working on delivering

04:03:18.740 it, making it happen.

04:03:21.020 Mic number two, please.

04:03:23.360 Hi, Mr. Singh. Benjamin Stephen,

04:03:24.960 the Charlatan, the Carleton University student

04:03:26.540 newspaper. Tonight, Mr. Trudeau

04:03:28.900 said your cynicism towards his government's

04:03:30.860 reconciliation work is damaging efforts.

04:03:33.000 How do you respond to this statement? 0.91

04:03:35.300 I mean, it's a pretty ludicrous thing 0.98

04:03:36.840 to say. What's damaging

04:03:38.960 reconciliation

04:03:40.520 is Mr. Trudeau

04:03:42.000 looking Indigenous people in the eyes and saying

04:03:44.760 I'm going to deliver clean drinking water 1.00

04:03:46.300 and then breaking that promise,

04:03:49.000 breaking that promise to the people of Nishkandiga,

04:03:51.660 breaking that promise to little B, a 12-year-old girl

04:03:54.660 who is fighting for clean drinking water in Canada

04:03:58.640 in the 21st century

04:04:00.740 because she's never seen that in her life.

04:04:04.700 She has never known what it's like to turn the tap on

04:04:07.040 and to be able to drink the water.

04:04:08.920 She is fighting for clean drinking water

04:04:10.780 because Mr. Trudeau promised to deliver it six years ago

04:04:15.180 and said it would happen by 2021

04:04:17.560 and then walked away from that commitment.

04:04:19.960 While at the same time,

04:04:21.500 in the beginning weeks of this pandemic,

04:04:23.640 he leapt to provide $750 billion in backstops

04:04:29.060 to the wealthiest banks in Canada.

04:04:31.720 That's what's eroding public trust.

04:04:35.280 That's cynical.

04:04:37.500 Thank you.

04:04:38.020 That's all the time we have.

04:04:39.540 Merci beaucoup.

04:04:40.660 Thanks so much.

04:04:41.100 I was ready for more.

04:04:42.380 I was excited, but that's all the time we have.

04:04:45.180 Thank you, Vic.

04:04:51.000 Well, I feel like Jagmeet Singh is just really in his element.

04:04:53.940 I remember during the last campaign watching him and just seeing him struggle,

04:04:57.140 and he just didn't seem like a very effective leader.

04:04:58.920 And I could almost say it's the exact opposite now.

04:05:01.460 Watching him come out, he's energetic.

04:05:02.780 He's obviously a character, right?

04:05:04.060 He's a little bit of a weird guy.

04:05:05.240 But he was really amicable, answering questions really clearly.

04:05:10.240 He had a couple of really strong pitches in there for the sort of swing voters

04:05:14.020 as to why not to go to Trudeau and why to go over to the NDP.

04:05:18.100 I think Jagmeet's really coming into his own as a leader.

04:05:21.240 It's good for the Conservatives, obviously,

04:05:22.760 because the stronger the NDP vote, the worse it is for the Liberals.

04:05:26.380 There was an interesting moment there where Sheila Gunn-Reed,

04:05:28.780 the rebel reporter, really started calling him out

04:05:32.320 on his inability to engage with people on the other side.

04:05:36.880 This is a theme that we sort of talked about,

04:05:38.400 how if you're on the right,

04:05:40.240 if you're kind of more of a hardcore Conservative

04:05:42.340 or more on the right wing, far right, you don't really have a place in Canada.

04:05:46.440 It's really weird the way that right wingers get demonized and Trudeau called them racist in the last bit

04:05:51.700 and here Singh again refusing to answer Sheila Gunn-Reed's question.

04:05:55.540 I think that it's unfortunate that he wouldn't even engage with Sheila

04:05:59.760 and again unfortunate that the left in this country has such a negative view of their political opponents.

04:06:06.480 It's a common theme at every level of government

04:06:09.100 And I certainly experienced it during my career as a journalist with Post Media.

04:06:15.060 And I think it's wrong.

04:06:17.420 I think that, you know, they talk about free speech.

04:06:21.380 They talk about being open and accountable.

04:06:24.700 And also inclusive and diversity.

04:06:27.000 And they're the most intolerant.

04:06:28.580 Some of those politicians from the NDP side of things are the most intolerant.

04:06:34.160 You know, I had NDP politicians bragging that they were blocking me on social media like it was some big game or competition.

04:06:44.360 So, I mean, I didn't think he handled that well.

04:06:48.180 And the other thing, I mean, he is a character.

04:06:51.300 He is really a character, but it's always that tax the rich thing that drives me crazy.

04:06:57.100 Right.

04:06:57.540 And, you know, they talk about it at the provincial level.

04:07:00.460 It's always the same thing.

04:07:02.540 Well, it's like a super simplistic idea, right?

04:07:05.100 It's like, oh, there's these 47 billionaires in the country,

04:07:07.440 so all we have to do is tax them.

04:07:09.120 It's like, well, you know that the deficit is, what, $350 billion?

04:07:13.480 So even if you took all the money from all those billionaires,

04:07:16.380 it wouldn't even be, like, the debt is a trillion dollars.

04:07:19.440 It wouldn't even do a dent towards the debt.

04:07:21.620 Like, we have a huge spending problem in this country.

04:07:23.920 You can't just say, like, oh, let's, like, you know,

04:07:26.100 we talk about how they demonize conservatives.

04:07:28.160 They really demonize billionaires.

04:07:29.880 I know.

04:07:30.220 And they really, really, you know, if there's one group of people that it's totally socially acceptable to just say, like, the nastiest things about, it's these billionaires.

04:07:38.060 And it's like, what are you going to do, take all their money?

04:07:39.960 They're the ones that are, in many ways, leading these huge companies and leading the growth.

04:07:43.720 They're job creators.

04:07:44.700 Right, exactly.

04:07:45.460 They're creating things that aren't there.

04:07:47.180 And it's like, we're going to go after these people.

04:07:49.480 Well, what's your economy going to look like after that?

04:07:51.440 Well, and not only that, you won't get it because the split second, it looks like you actually are going to get any of their money.

04:07:56.300 These people are extraordinarily sophisticated and their money will be offshore.

04:07:59.220 I don't know where it'll be.

04:08:01.800 I just feel it'll be out of reach somewhere.

04:08:04.080 Right.

04:08:04.560 Right, in a very, very short order.

04:08:07.600 Yeah, I think he had some effective lines.

04:08:09.640 I think your point, there were a couple of points in that Q&A.

04:08:12.520 He really laid out his pitch saying, here's why you should vote for me.

04:08:15.360 And, you know, for a long, long time, I remember in the last election,

04:08:20.260 the NDP campaign manager saying to me that the problem was that her voters

04:08:26.440 like Justin Trudeau too much, and that one of the problems is that every time they try

04:08:30.180 to take a shot at Justin Trudeau as the NDP, their own members would call up and complain

04:08:34.200 and say we're being mean, we're being like the Tories, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

04:08:37.940 And part of, I think, Trudeau's decline of popularity in the last month or so hasn't

04:08:43.640 just been conservative liberal switches being turned off of him, it's by NDPers being turned

04:08:48.000 off of him in a way that wasn't true two years ago and certainly wasn't true six years ago.

04:08:52.040 And as a result, that's given, in the NDP world, that's given Jagmeet and his campaign team the license to go more aggressive.

04:08:59.680 You know, we've seen attack ads on Twitter.

04:09:01.380 I mean, my Facebook, I live in a riding that's an NDP liberal switcher riding.

04:09:05.600 And my Facebook is full of NDP attack ads on liberals.

04:09:08.900 Some of them are more effective than others, but it's something we certainly didn't see in the past.

04:09:13.420 And Jagmeet, you know, did a couple of sort of drive-by smears on O'Toole tonight.

04:09:20.340 But he was really not the main target. Trudeau was his main target.

04:09:23.880 And we'll see if it works because the fact of the matter is that Singh had a good English debate in the last election

04:09:29.480 and there was all this talk that his numbers were going to go up

04:09:32.440 and then Trudeau was able to pull a whole bunch of those votes back to the Liberals at the end.

04:09:37.560 So for this, it's all about Singh winning those last two weeks

04:09:40.880 and making sure the NDP gets 21 or 22 percent and not 16 or 17.

04:09:46.160 I think if he's going to draw the Liberal vote, he was very effective tonight in presenting the reasons why he should.

04:09:55.000 And I think it's out there to be drawn.

04:09:58.080 I mean, he could, in fact, steal back those supporters.

04:10:03.080 I certainly sense that.

04:10:04.640 Sure.

04:10:05.420 Well, it's interesting, just to your point, that the NDP doesn't want to be too harsh on the Liberals because the NDP voters like them.

04:10:10.360 There are several times in that debate where I heard Jagmeet Singh say that he liked the liberal plan or that the liberal had a good idea or that he agreed with it.

04:10:18.340 And it's almost a little jarring watching a debate because you're so used to people saying, no, your plan's wrong.

04:10:24.100 This is why my plan's better. And it was it was weird to see Singh do that a few times.

04:10:27.780 But given that context you just gave, it kind of makes sense that at the end of the day, the NDP and the liberals agree on most things.

04:10:35.140 It's just a matter of like, how are we going to get to these same end goals?

04:10:38.720 Well, and not even how, but off just the timeline.

04:10:41.620 Somebody once said NDPs are just liberals in a hurry, right?

04:10:47.660 If the liberals say we'll do it in 10 years, NDPs say we'll do it in three, right?

04:10:50.800 And that's the big difference to them.

04:10:52.440 And I think that's a really interesting point, Candice, because he might agree with the liberal plan,

04:10:56.040 and he often says he agreed with Trudeau's intentions, but not his record in actually getting there,

04:11:00.860 which is, I think, where the NDP has clearly discovered that's their effective line of attack.

04:11:05.460 We say we can't criticize Trudeau's intentions because our voters won't believe that he's a bad man not trying to do these things.

04:11:11.360 But we can say he's been ineffective at delivering on the things that we care about.

04:11:15.320 Right, and that was that great line that Singh just had, saying that, look, you could have been implementing a national, I think it was pharmacare that he was talking about, but instead you call this election.

04:11:25.380 So, you know, you've been promising this thing for the last 30 years, and the liberals have, and Trudeau has in his political career.

04:11:31.420 instead of going and implementing it and working with the NDP.

04:11:33.980 This is a question that I wish that someone would have asked Jagmeet,

04:11:36.460 and it's interesting because usually the legacy media is so interested in process questions,

04:11:41.380 process questions, figuring out, you know, what's the strategic thing to do.

04:11:46.380 I was surprised when no one asked him whether he would be willing to prop up another Trudeau liberal minority

04:11:50.700 because given that that was what we just had, if Trudeau again wins a minority government,

04:11:55.260 I think it will be a huge loss for the liberals.

04:11:57.020 It will be a huge loss for Trudeau because he created this vanity election.

04:12:00.860 He's spending, what, $650 million on this election.

04:12:03.940 If the result is exactly the same, I think that that is a loss for Trudeau,

04:12:07.860 and he should be shamed and probably removed from his office.

04:12:10.260 He'll be gone, don't you think?

04:12:11.720 I think the Liberals would have good reason to try to remove him as leader, and Canadians too.

04:12:15.940 So it would be worth asking Jagmeet, are you going to prop this guy up again,

04:12:19.720 given that you just had propped him up, you could have worked together,

04:12:22.760 but instead he chose the election for the purpose of not having the NDP as a coalition partner,

04:12:28.860 an informal coalition partner.

04:12:30.380 So I'm a little surprised that no one asked him that question.

04:12:34.380 All right, we have Green Party anime, Paul.

04:12:37.380 I think this is probably just wrapping up soon,

04:12:39.380 but we can go to her for a minute and then we will wrap it up here.

04:12:42.380 It's the moment, finally, to go to the root,

04:12:46.380 to talk about discrimination, to talk about poverty,

04:12:50.380 to talk about affordable housing,

04:12:55.380 to talk about equity in our society.

04:12:59.380 It's like that we attack the crimes of criminal acts and that's how we avoid what we have now. 0.99

04:13:08.020 It's a representation of the indigenous peoples and also the black diaspora in our criminal justice system. 1.00

04:13:18.900 Mic number one please.

04:13:20.900 Good evening Ms. Paul, Justin Ling, freelance.

04:13:23.940 I want to hear you talk a bit about the exchange you had with Mr. Blanchet. 0.99

04:13:27.540 As you noted earlier, you're the first racialized woman to wind up or to earn her way out of this debate stage.

04:13:36.760 What was your reaction to sort of being hectored by the bloc leader over supposedly, I think in his words, as he said earlier, calling Quebecers altogether racist?

04:13:50.740 I'm not sure he said that in this.

04:13:52.660 Oh, he said it out here for sure.

04:13:53.860 Oh, did he?

04:13:54.380 Okay. I wasn't watching it, so I don't know what he said,

04:13:57.800 and I certainly didn't say that.

04:13:59.320 I mean, I have a great respect for the people of Quebec.

04:14:08.920 When I was speaking, when I was on the debate stage with Mr. Blanchet,

04:14:14.140 I simply made the point that if he is interested in learning more

04:14:20.180 about the experience of people like myself

04:14:22.260 or those who have said very clearly that systemic discrimination exists.

04:14:26.440 And let's keep in mind that the United Nations,

04:14:29.040 their working group on people of African descent,

04:14:31.740 said just a few years ago that systemic racism exists here.

04:14:35.400 Our Supreme Court has also acknowledged that systemic racism exists,

04:14:40.140 and we can see it in the data as well.

04:14:42.060 So if you would like to learn more about our experience,

04:14:44.480 then I, again, extend my hand in friendship and in understanding toward him.

04:14:50.520 Mic number two, please.

04:14:53.520 Good evening. I'm Jenna Kokula with The Wire Report.

04:14:56.720 Today, a member of your party tweeted that the Green Party was calling for a reversal of the CRTC's wholesale decision.

04:15:04.280 I'm just wondering if this is an official party policy and...

04:15:07.580 Sorry, which decision?

04:15:08.560 The wholesale decision.

04:15:09.740 Okay. No, not as far as I know. I wasn't aware of that.

04:15:15.560 I'd have to see the details, but based on what you're saying there, that would not be the case.

04:15:19.740 And what are your thoughts on how to lower internet bills?

04:15:23.440 Oh boy, this is, you know, we have a section in our platform dedicated to this.

04:15:27.260 We know that this is one of these unfulfilled pieces of business.

04:15:31.240 We need to invest in ensuring that every single community has access

04:15:35.440 and affordable access to high-speed broadband service.

04:15:40.820 We've seen during the pandemic, even in neighbourhoods like Toronto Centre,

04:15:45.060 which is a, you know, deeply urban,

04:15:46.900 that there are many people that simply don't have access

04:15:49.560 to what we have to agree now is an essential service.

04:15:52.520 We know that it's holding back rural and remote communities as well.

04:15:56.560 And so in the next session of Parliament,

04:15:58.780 it has to be a top priority to get that job done.

04:16:02.160 And those who want to take a look at our platform

04:16:04.340 will see our proposals for how we would do that.

04:16:07.120 Certainly, we need to have a greater diversity of providers as well

04:16:11.520 that's part of the solution.

04:16:13.820 We'll go to the phones.

04:16:15.380 operator? Is there a question

04:16:17.580 on the phone? Operators, there's a question from the phone.

04:16:21.200 Thank you.

04:16:22.580 Yes, the next question

04:16:23.580 is from David Menzies from

04:16:25.540 Rebel News. Please go ahead.

04:16:27.380 Your line is open.

04:16:29.240 Good evening, Ms. Paul. I hope you're doing well.

04:16:31.980 Ms. Paul, clearly this debate

04:16:33.760 is an insider's club

04:16:35.780 for the political establishment.

04:16:38.220 It banned

04:16:39.260 Maxime Bernier of the People's Party

04:16:41.660 of Canada, even though

04:16:43.480 he was ahead of the Bloc Quebec law and Jerome party, the Green party in the polls. It banned

04:16:50.240 me and Rebel News from even reporting until the federal court said that was illegal. Why have you

04:16:59.460 not spoken out against this? Don't you think all voices should be heard in Canada? Thank you for

04:17:08.080 Thank you for the question.

04:17:11.960 We did have an opportunity to provide recommendations

04:17:15.700 to the commission establishing the rules for the debates.

04:17:19.200 And certainly from our perspective,

04:17:22.340 having more debates is incredibly important.

04:17:25.000 It is incredibly disappointing

04:17:26.960 that we only had two hours to discuss so many important issues.

04:17:31.820 We spent, I think, 10 minutes or 20 minutes

04:17:35.380 It's talking about Indigenous peoples, for instance.

04:17:38.240 I don't think we spent even 10 minutes speaking about Afghanistan.

04:17:41.900 So we can see what this new system has created.

04:17:45.440 It's created less opportunities for people in Canada to get to know the parties,

04:17:49.840 to get to know the leaders of those parties, to get to know our positions.

04:17:54.220 That's not a good thing for democracy.

04:17:56.400 In the case of those parties who are not included,

04:18:01.220 I think we do need to find a way for small parties who are trying to establish themselves

04:18:05.740 to have a way of participating and getting known.

04:18:09.540 Otherwise, we do have the same old parties constantly monopolizing the discussion.

04:18:16.600 That's all the time we have.

04:18:18.200 C'est tout le temps que nous avons. Merci beaucoup. Thank you.

04:18:20.120 Merci beaucoup.

04:18:22.020 I wish I had to wrap it up.

04:18:23.800 Oh, I just thought she made the most...

04:18:25.940 All right. Well, thank you so much, everyone, for tuning in.

04:18:28.480 This has been True North's live election debate night.

04:18:31.040 I think we're into hour five.

04:18:32.800 It's past midnight here in Toronto.

04:18:34.660 I've got to get home to my little kids.

04:18:37.200 But Hamish Marshall and Sue Ann Levy, it's been such a pleasure.

04:18:39.820 It's so great to sit down and talk with you.

04:18:42.400 Just a quick reaction.

04:18:43.760 I thought that it was great that Anna Mae Paul finished on that note,

04:18:46.720 sort of echoing what we've said here.

04:18:48.900 And I don't expect to have a lot in common in terms of our policy visions for the country.

04:18:53.660 But the way that she just stood up and said, this debate hasn't worked.

04:18:57.860 This hasn't been a very good idea.

04:18:59.100 you know, we didn't cover enough ground, we didn't cover enough issues, we didn't have enough time,

04:19:03.900 we didn't include enough people. That's absolutely right. So good for Anime Paul for finishing.

04:19:08.380 On that note, to the folks at home who are still tuning in, you know, thank you so much for giving

04:19:13.140 us so much of your time this evening. I hope you enjoyed our analysis. Again, if you want to support

04:19:17.460 the work that we do at True North, we have investigative journalists, we've been putting

04:19:21.080 out exclusive reports every single day of this campaign. We've broken some really big stories,

04:19:24.880 really important stuff. We do podcasts every day, videos every day. We put out documentaries. We do

04:19:30.260 a lot of really interesting journalism over there. So go check it out at tnc.news if you're so

04:19:34.980 inclined. Please consider making a small donation to keep events like this going. And we will be

04:19:41.300 back again on election night. We're going to do a very similar type of program. So hope to see you

04:19:46.340 again on election night. Otherwise, I'll be back with the Candace Malcolm show tomorrow. Thanks

04:19:51.440 again for tuning in and have a lovely evening everybody good night good night

04:20:21.440 We'll be right back.

04:20:51.440 We'll be right back.

04:21:21.440 We'll be right back.

04:21:51.440 Thank you.

04:22:21.440 We'll be right back.

04:22:51.440 We'll be right back.

04:23:21.440 Thank you.

Juno News - September 10, 2021

Leaders Debate 2021 - True North Exclusive Coverage

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